Repertoire: The BEST Brahms Symphony Cycles, Bar None!
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- Опубліковано 26 вер 2024
- Everyone does Brahms, but not everyone does all four Brahms symphonies equally well. Here are the very best cycles--more than a dozen and a half of them--consistently excellent in each one of these very characteristic but very different works. Take a look, and then take your pick!
Whenever I hear David say, "and this may come as a surprise..." I know it's Karajan time! Ha ha.
Or Solti, or Abbado, or... And if I say "shock,'" then it's Norrington, Rattle, or Thielemann.
@@DavesClassicalGuide exactly.
I was expecting Rattle, but then his Berlin Brahms cycle seems to have slipped into obscurity. I can't remember it caused much of a splash when it first came out, and I've not heard much talk of it since.
@@ftumschk ugh, it was pretty mediocre. deserves to be forgotten
@@ftumschk I heard the BPO play Brahms in Boston. 2nd and 3rd, I believe. Stunning performances-- don't know how the recordings came out, but it was a brilliant afternoon.
Maybe I am insane but Brahms is my favorite, his music just speaks to me
I own both the Karajan and Solti cycles (on vinyl). I enjoy them both, however, I really love the sound of the CSO recordings. The London engineers captured a warm and very beautiful sound. Both orchestras play superbly.
Jochum is just great. Especially the LPO cycle which is more organic for my taste, like he got everything right and balanced and put in all his experience and wisdom. Masterful! And he also seems to have been a very kind human being.
So many incredible recordings of these symphonies. One that comes to mind that was not mentioned: Rudolf Kempe! A truly monumental set with Berlin Philharmonic on Testament label.
Agree. A phenomenal cycle.
Absolutely Kempe!
I have the Solti - Chicago Symphony BRAHMS discs in my collection. I bought this version because Sir Georg takes all the repeats in symphonies 1, 2 & 3. Some of you may not like this, but I enjoy it, just like when the repeat is done in the first movement of Dvorak's: Symphony No. 9 (The "New World"). I agree with Dave, the Solti on London/Decca does sound marvelous.
Jochum was my favourite conductor when I lived in Berlin and was able to hear him live a few times, notably in a stunning Brahms 4. Love his recordings of the Brahms cycles. I also like Skrowaczewski with the Halle, which rarely gets a mention. And lots of others...
I must say, David, I love these videos. It is so enjoyable to hear an informed person talk about a thing that they love. I don't agree all the time (how boring would that be?), but I have taken your advice and added many a single recording. and set to my collection because of your videos. In these miserable times, it is great to spend time hearing someone talk about something they (and I) love...
Thank you!
SAME. i actually like to disagree with his opinions so much that I automatically argue with his statements before even realizing that I actually agree. Like his comment here about Chailly, “HEY HOW DARE YOU, oh, yeah, but still...”
The Abbado digital cycle with the Berlin Philharmonic has really grown on me. The sound is gorgeously transparent. I bought it after once owning the Abbado symphony box set on vinyl recorded with four different orchestras.
the only 'problem' with Abbado's Berlin was that the sound was so incredibly silky that i'd often forget the program I just heard. my memory ensconced itself in the silkiness and went " never mind the composer'...:-)
@@MrPaevo I am in violent agreement with you, sir. Abbado & Brahms were perfect complements for one another.
Great to see Dorati mentioned there. I remember back in the noughties when I first discovered Dorati and his Mercury recordings. I was in my teens and I tried to get as many I could but they were in short supply here in the UK. So I ended up regularly purchasing from Tower Records online from the US and this was one set I bought. It's a great cycle!
Totally agree about Mackerras' set also, superb!
Dohnanyi too - he did them again with the Philharmonia too on their own label, which are also really good.
As for the best of the best... 💯 with Klemperer and Jochum! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Yes! Finally Brahms cycles, which is one of the subjects I've been really waiting! And I'm glad that most of my favorite cycles are in your list. Brahms is the composer who got me into the world of classical music, so I've been trying to listen to his symphony cycles as many as I can. But recently, I feel like I repeatedly go back to Dohnanyi cycle and Jochum/LPO cycle. Completely different styles but I guess these are my top 2!
When I bought my first Brahms cycle, there was Jochum, Karajan , Celibidache in the bins of my retailer. I bought Jochum and I was fascinated. Then I bought the CElibidache and the Karajan from the 60's. Then came Bohm, Klemperer, Haitink, Giulini.
And Munch (that I copied from the radio) . And JOchum is still my favorite. And Bohm is my second choice.
Happy that you mentioned Karl Bohm, a sadly overlooked conductor. His Brahms set should have been included in this survey.
I'm new to the world of classical music and I often have to pause your videos to research terms and references, but I've already learned so much from watching your videos. Your breadth of knowledge of and your passion for classical music is admirable. And man, your ability to recall information is so impressive! Most content providers rely on endless jump cuts to present a topic and appear to be knowledgeable of the subject matter, but you present your content in a single take, and it's refreshing.
Cool, thanks!
Stephen, I'm a hard rock and metal fan who got into classical music and jazz while in college (becoming a huge fan of both), and I just want to say, welcome to the incredible world of classical music! I envy the great musical discoveries that you have ahead of you! I'm fifty-one now, and I'm still learning. That is one of the many cool things about classical music-- it's an inexhaustible treasure!
@@christianman73 , right-on, man! I'm also 51 and have been into hard rock and metal most of my life. I started collecting jazz albums about 5 years back and am just now starting to explore the world of classical music, which is very exciting! It sounds like you and I have been on a similar musical journey in life. Cheers!
I recently discovered you, and you have now become a regular visitor to my Florida home. I listen to critics with trepidation, but with an open mind. In the late 70s when I studied at the Cleveland Institute of Music, I heard an orchestra member/teacher remark, “If you can’t perform, you teach. If you can’t teach, you become a critic. If you can’t be a good critic, you become a conductor.” The orchestra did not have a love affair with Mazel.
I have found your recommendations spot on. Tonight I am listening to the Abbado and Jocum Brahms recordings. Just finished Abbado’s 1st; truly magnificent.
I used to tease a dear friend and wonderful music critic, Andrew Patner, about refusing to embrace modern technology. If you knew Andrew you are aware he was taken from us way, way to soon a few years back. I will now tease you. Have you never used Spotify? For $11 per month I have every set of music you mention at my fingertips. No need to be financially limited to owning only a select few recordings. It is a marvel I wish I had years back when I was a poor student had to by Vox and Nonesuch recordings.
Anyway, love your humor and encyclopedic knowledge of classical repertory.
Your best Brahms piano concerti set was the first time I heard you. I pretty much expected the usual great recordings, but had never heard Nelson Freire’s recording. I generally do not like his performances because of his erratic rubato, and found some sections rushed, but other sections - F major second theme of 1st concerto for example - stunningly beautiful.
While not recorded as a set, I love Zimmerman’s/Rattle’s 1st concerto.
Sorry for the long comment, still being a covid recluse. See you soon.
Don from Florida.
Yes, I subscribe to Spotify but see little need to use it most of the time.
David Hurwitz with all the cds you own I can understand why. I listen to music almost all the waking day. Spotify is handy when I am shopping at Home Depot. Unfortunately I can’t help but conduct. My late husband would tell people I had Tourette syndrome. LOL. Listed to Abbado’s and Jocum’s Brahms first. Loved both, preferred the Jocum, wish it were recorded better.
I had a real laugh when you demonstrated Villanelle and Asie. Keep up the entertaining and informative lectures. I was so glad you called Pollini a “cold fish”. His Chopin 1 he recorded after wining the Chopin competition was an exception Most other recording are rather boring.
That Zimmerman/Rattle of Brahms First Piano Concerto is an epic. The big V7 chords with the descending bass line right before the first movement recapitulation are so clear, together and powerful. One of my favorite moments in recorded music.
I still love Kertesz, because it was my first, bought in the cutout section. But Jochum is truly one of the greatest all around conductors. No flash, he just walked around making great music.
Wow Jochum - just heard the 1st Symphony - what a sizzler! completely overlooked these recordngs, even (especially) in the '60s!
I'm glad you mentioned the Sanderling/Staatskapelle Dresden on Eurodisc, as I have that and it's a particular favorite. Largely overlooked -- as is Maazel's great '76-'77 Cleveland set on Scribendum. I would also not be without Furtwangler, but concede your point that he doesn't know what to do with the Third.
Sanderling with Staatskapelle fantastic !!!
I'm a big fan of the perhaps underrated Eduard van Beinum. So glad you included his performances. I'd love to hear your comments on the other recordings in the same boxed set.
Brahms + Van Beinum + The Concertgebouw. Music making can hardly get better than that.
Mr. God, thank you for Jochum. David - another winner. I am set myself on listening to everything he recorded aside from Bruckner. And the sound is great. With Jochum, no affect, no overthinking, no special effects. Just a natural flow of music.
Sat watching the video for nearly thirty minutes repeatedly asking where is Jochum? He hasn't been mentioned yet, what is going on?! When he arrived like the cavalry at the end at I verbally cheered. I've been collecting for over twenty years and I'm still bewildered by how underrated Jochum is in the core German repertoire. Hasta la vista Willy Furtwangler! :P Keep up the good work Mr H.
same. i said YEA...
I agree completely with your assessment of Jochum, and I'm so glad you included both of his sets. No matter how many different recordings I hear of these great works, I always come back to the opening bars of his Berlin Fourth when I need some musical balm for my tired soul.
Long live Jochum
Aside from adding my comment elsewhere, singing the praises of the Szell/CO Brahms cycle, I would like to throw in a recommendation to boot. When listening to any classical music repertoire, especially Brahms, I believe it to be critically important to do so with score in hand...providing, of course, you know how to read a musical score, especially in depth for Brahms. If you are somewhat familiar with the piece, it's first probably best to do this beforehand before sampling any recording. In much of his musical output, the sheer complexity of what Brahms wrote is mind-boggling!
Wonderful and eloquent description of the Brahms cycles, so much to learn from! The symphonies are a passionate expression of an outwardly traditionally and repressed person. I agree with the comment on Kempe. Kertesz VPO was also omitted and Boehm, at least worth a mention.
Absolutely masterful and scholarly analysis....thank you Dave.
One big reason to perhaps choose Levine in Vienna as opposed to Chicago is that in the former he opts for the classic orchestra layout, with the second violins on the right. Brahms' orchestral writing has *so* many antiphonal effects for the violins that it's always a pity whenever I hear great Brahms conducting attached to the "american" or "modern" orchestra layout (which isn't *actually* american in origin).
Great video. Agreed with many of the recommendations!
I’m enjoying your videos and learning from you knowledge and opinions. Thank you.
You're very welcome. Thanks for watching.
Dave directing the audience with his hands - his prowess as a conductor is unrivalled.
Dave - I learned about the Janowski (Pittsburgh) cycle from your website and I am thrilled with it! There is something about his sound balance and sense of rhythm; his recordings have made me listen to Brahms with totally fresh, excited ears (esp. the low registers). Also, the recommendations in this video are great so far. I am checking out Dohnanyi next!
Thank you for putting me on the track of Klemperer's Brahms symphonies. Have just listened to it and it is magnificent. I have a been an admirer of Klemperer for many years now and have his excellent 3rd symphony in my collection. But for some reason I never got around to investigating the rest of his Brahms symphonies as well - I have clearly missed out, but is going rectify that now.
So glad you affirmed the overall excellence of the Solti set; his accounts of no’s 3&4 are especially fine. We have the Walter cycle and both by Levine, no arguments on their excellence. I imprinted on Karajan’s 1978 recordings and enjoy them very much; I find his 3rd and 4th more persuasive than the 1st and 2nd. Based on your enthusiastic endorsement I just ordered the Jochum/LPO recordings and look forward to hearing them. Thanks as always for presenting these talks and preserving sanity for us classical record collectors.
You’ve led me to water, and I can only feel as if I am now drinking the finest French chocolate. Jochum-I’d never given him a chance before now, believing Karajan, Walter, Klemperer, Bernstein, and Furtwangler to be the first and last words on the Brahms symphonies, among so many non-Brahms (admittedly, I listen to each said conductor for one Symphony in particular or two when the Brahms cravings rage), but what a marvelous artist is Jochum, who, even when managing to get some of the most fantastic fortes ever recorded out of his players still sees to those players’ maintaining full color character and clarity.
This video is among my favorites of yours, not only because Brahms is, along with Tchaikovsky Mozart and Mahler, forever my symphonist, but also because I love hearing you complain about period instrument recordings of Romantic works, and I absolutely delight in your gushing gushing gushing over unquestionably great music and music-making. So glad you created this channel. There are so few good classical music criticism and discussion channels on UA-cam.
Thank you very much. I'm so glad you are enjoying my babbling on, and on, and on...
That's the problem the finest chocolate doesn't come from France... (with all due respect to our cousins)
You have kindly endorsed my current collection of the Jochum, Walter, and Levine sets, while providing some ideas going forward if I choose to expand my collection. Thank you for another enlightening review of great performances.
Nice and informative Dave, well done.
Dohnanyi is really, really good. But Szell has been my favorite since I was in college.
Dohnanyi (Warner) was good in 2nd. the rest of that cycle was not impressive imo.
@@mistywalters in 4th too
Excellent! Very enlightening!
I have just discovered your videos and am addicted...love them all, but this one was uncanny. From your dismissal of Szell to your inclusion of von Karajan to your cautiously mentioning the brilliance of Levine I agreed with absolutely everything until the end...when I was almost dejected, waiting, and thinking "He'll never mention Jochum...if he hasn't gotten to Jochum by now, he's going to ignore them"....then you DID!
NOBODY TALKS ABOUT JOCHUM'S BRAHMS!!! It is BY FAR the greatest!!!
I WANT TO SCREAM MY AGREEMENT! WELL DONE! BRAVO!
Thank you, and welcome aboard!
You do a pretty good fake snore.
28:31
Staatskapelle Dresden/Sanderling and Columbia SO/Walter have long been my favourite Brahms cycles. Sanderling is broad but scrupulously detailed, Walter is richly Romantic - have you ever heard the cello theme at the start of the second movement of the Second Symphony played like that? Glorious. Giulini's LAPO First Symphony is one of the best things he did.
No argument from me!
10:50 The first symphony I fell in love with as a neophyte 11 year old was Brahms 4. An LP I borrowed from the library. It was the Czell.
Great commentaries!
manrico01: You need to learn the name of those you love. The conductor’s name was George SZELL!
I have listened to quite a few Brahms symphony cycles including the few that you have mentioned, but the one I always keep going back to is Eduard Van Beinum with the RCO, great sound and passion in his Brahms, quite Tragic also he died from a heart attack while conducting the First Symphony of Brahms at a pretty young age.
Hello again, Dave. I failed at many things today, but 2 things I didn't fail to do were to like and subscribe to you !! Yes, Jochum had great balance of phrasing... I like everything by him. Also one of my favourite Brahms ; Giulini. He had a certain depth, weight, gravity to his music making that is instantly recognizable to me... and I feel it suited Brahms's symphonies... now I'm going to see what you say about the Brandenburgs... there's one recording I have been listening to for 46 years and still cannot live without.
Its a great education thank you very much
HEllo DAVid here brom buenos aires, Argentina. Thanks so much for so many great reviews that make classical music a fun experience. My two favorite brahms cycles, and im certainly a fanatic of the man, are the Kurt Sanderling SKD and the more recent Zinman/ Tonhalle. But let me point at a couple which are surprisingly good which are the Richenbacher / Budapest SO and the EMil Tabakov Radio Sophia SO. Probably not easy to get but i cant tell you how good those are. Thanks again!
I have always thought Jochum and Bohm to be the most underrated conductors. Thank you for putting Jochum at the absolute top of this list! I hope to see Bohm among the top recommendations in the future.
What a great recommendation! I agree 100% with you that James Levine's DGG Brahms symphonies set is truly amazing and inspiring. The recorded sound is excellent and VPO played like magic. Form and content are formulated and integrated perfectly. A stunning artistic achievement!!!
Personally, I’m a bit partial to the cycle by Neeme Järvi and the LSO. But I just listened to some of the Jochum with LPO. What a revelation! Wow!
Happy to see Dorati receive props for his excellent set!
I discovered Dohnanyi when, in the 80s, I got obsessed with finding a recording in which one could hear the ascending trombone motive in the very last bars of the last movement of the 1st symphony.
Ja Ja Jochum das ist der richtige!!!
I've only come to the earlier Jochum Brahms cycle in the past years. I heard the second symphony on the radio on day and thought "WOW, this is really great but who can it be?" Jochum!!!
What keeps coming back to me listening to this cycle is that Jochum, while never short changing the big moments gets the intimacy and tenderness of Brahms when and where it counts
He wasn't glamorous but he was full of insight and the soul of the music.
Great choice!!
I do like the Walter Mono set and while I still love many many others as a complete cycle Jochum is my FAV and I see it is easily available on ebay and Amazon
My first recording of Brahms 1 was van Beinum and then I opted for all 4 with Walter and the Columbia SYmphony, but still preferred van Beinum in No. 1. Now my go-to set of all 4 is Dohnanyi’s great Cleveland cycle on Warner. I also still like Walter in 2 and 3 and best of all Carlos Kleiber in the 4th. Thanks for your enlightening discussion!
I so agree about musical mongooses. Thank you for this splendid overview.
I have the Klemp, the Abbado, the Herbie and Jochum, all great cycles. Also I have the old stuff: Furt, Toscanini...I missed in your review the Sawallisch cycle for Philips, great recordings for me. And Celi, too. Many thanks for all these videos. I have lots of recordings in CD and your reviews confirm my ears were very good whem I bought them, mant years ago...in the S XX....
Thanks for hat tipping Jochum's b minor in passing. It's outstanding.
You bet!
Dave, thank you so much for this. After a lot of consideration, I bought the Abbado cycle with the BPO. I am very happy with the purchase. Not only are the performances of the Brahms symphonies superb, with very good recorded sound, but the pairings on each disc introduce me to some Brahms compositions I did not know. (The Alto Rhapsody, for example.) I like that the couplings come first on each disc, which reverses the usual sequence. The last disc in the box, the Serenades, is a bonus. Great recording, great value.
I'm very glad you're enjoying the set. Thank you for reporting back.
I often return to Eugen Jochum recordings of Brahms (which I have as LP's), when I am unhappy about a live performance, for instance Petrenko in the fourth symphony with which he started this season's concer tseries with the Berlin Philharmonic.
Thanks for the recommendation! I am totally overwhelmed by Jochum mono version of Brahms #3. Cannot love more.
David, this is a very insightful and interesting video ! You have really helped me appreciate Brahms and Shostakovich lately . Thanks !
You’re welcome!
YAY! You mentioned the two cycles I have - Klemperer and Jochum :)
Wonderful!
that was good! no great! You've contributed to consumerism, as after listening I purchased a 4-cd set of Klemperer's Brahms (it arrived today), and a 21-cd set of Jochum (which includes all the Brahms you mention, plus all Bruckner series and all Beethoven series, it should arrive by week'S end). I've already got the Karajan Brahms you spoke of.
So January and February 2024 shall be Brahmsian months of over-indulgence!! YOU are to blame for this! lol. Again, thank you so much. (p.s., did listen to Jochum's Brahms 4th on UA-cam and it was indeed astounding.)
A conductor who was tremendously underrated was Rudolf Kempe. If you can find his Brahms cycle on Testament, it is well worth considering.
I remember him so well, in London conducting the Royal Philharmonic. He would come out of the wings, exuding elegance, with a fine head of white hair. He was one of the best I ever did hear... a wonderful conductor I will always remember.
Missed this thread first time around, and now I have to go through 98% of it to find someone who agrees with my all-time favourite in these works. Kempe, every time, although I'd take Jochum as a good second best. Saw Kempe do #1 in Liverpool with his Munich orchestra many years ago, still one of my most memorable concerts. His recording of the Brahms German Requiem is also very special.
Basically your video and the comments cover the best and most meaningful ones out there. From time to time I’m also drawn to Barbirolli/VPO, Böhm/VPO, the young Abbado with 4 different orchestras. Nelsons with Boston SO is also pretty good.
I find Nelsons to be faceless, even though the orchestra plays beautifully. They deserve the credit, not him.
Boston also played beautifully under Seiji Ozawa but they didn’t complete a cycle. I almost forget the Ozawa and Saito Kinen Orchestra one issued by Philips, which I’m quite fond of with the intensity from the orchestra.
Got the big Jochum box but have not even started listening. Thanks!
Great, thanks.
Just like in Mozart late symphonies, I love to have both Walter and Klemperer in the Brahms. Light and dark perhaps.
An Idea? If you should fill a little Solti box with 8 great cds, which records should they be? Don’t hurry ;-)
ps. I am glad that there are more new stuff on CT, I enjoy that very much.
When you talk about Brahms and his orchestral music, especially his symphonies, you really have to heavily consider the caliber of the orchestra in the performance of such. There probably is no other composer in the romantic era where the lushness of his compositions need to be well-defined and not muddied so as not to obscure main themes and musical phrasing. Essentially we are talking caliber of the orchestra. There was no finer orchestra on Earth in its heyday than the Cleveland Orchestra under Szell. Every principal chair, especially in the winds, was a virtuoso performer in his own right. But to pull off Brahms magnificently you need to have a stellar horn section (Brahms 1 comes to mind...he was quite partial to horns and horn writing: his father played the horn). There was no finer horn section around than in Cleveland with the incredible and young Myron Bloom at its helm. Don't believe me? Go back and A/B compare Szell/CO Brahms output with any of the cycle recordings mentioned in this YT video. The superiority of the Szell recordings are striking to say the least.
I'm making a bit of room to enable purchase of some new discs, and therefore doing much listening in order to get rid of some. After listening to all Beethoven symphony recordings I have, I'm now starting with Brahms.
In the collection are:
- cycles: van Beinum, Walter, Solti, Gardiner,
- II: Barbirolli (Orfeo), Abbado (BPO, DG, digital recording), Behlolavec (BBC Music Magazine disc)
- IV: Kleiber (DG)
After listening to Walter and van Beinum, I think I already have the ideal Brahms cycle with van Beinum's I, Walter's II+III, and IV of both. The others will have to merit their place by being special. I suppose only Barbirolli, maybe also Kleiber will succeed.
Note: the sound for van Beinum's II and III is, for me, outdated. There's a clear difference between these 1954 and 1956 recordings, compared to the 1958 recordings for I and IV.
The summary of my notes during listening to van Beinum and Walter: "These guys are doing things Gardiner is talking about (in the booklets). But when Walter and van Beinum do it, it all feels completely natural."
Solti's Chicago versions came out just after the Levine CSO cycle and were therefore compared "head to head" in many reviews at the time. Most preferred Levine, and something of a shadow was cast on the Solti.
great talk on my favourite music
Thank you for these precious recommendations - the conductor of my choice would have been Giulini and I’ll happily compare now.
I have always felt these symphonies are like the seasons: No. 1 Winter, No. 2 Spring, No. 3 Summer and No. 4 Autumn. How do you feel about this?
You are entitled to your feelings.
So glad you re-directed my attention to Jochum’s DG cycle. I am listening to Symphony No. 1 and what intensity and clarity! I am hearing new things in the orchestration, despite the recording being mono! In fact, most of them sound spectacular given that they are from 1953 and 1956. Only weak link sonically is the Second, which is from 1951 and shows its age.
Years ago... sometimes in the mid 70s...i heard Jochum conduct Brahms first symphony with the Bamberg Symphony orchestra, in Atlanta at the cavernous Civic Auditorium. Nevertheless it was GORGEOUS!!
omg, the third's first movement... what a challenge!
Thank you for these excellent reviews. Apart from other honorable mentions in the comments (Kempe, Harnoncourt, ...) I am also quite fond of the Kertesz cycle. In my opinion, he changes abruptly from being pastoral and agreeable to being dark and desperate so seamlessly that the music is more alive than with most. His 4th symphony passacaglia is still one of my favourites.
I don't find him to be anything special, and Harnoncourt is just weird.
Kertesz's Brahms? The curate's egg, of this particular collected œuvre.
I also love the Kertesz cycle. It's fresh and alive, and I think Decca did a better job of recording him than they did with Solti in Chicago.
@@paulmazeroff8823 I think so too, the sound is much better, in my opinion.
AGREED about Klemperer and Walter, those are my two guys
I strongly agree. For me Klemperer and Walter are definitive Brahms cycles and I don’t feel the need to bother with anything else on the rare occasions I listen to Brahms. They truly are reference Brahms conductors in the sense it is easy to compare other cycles to their work and to find the others wanting.
Richard Was a fine observation. I always dig bluster. Any particular recommendations for recordings by maestros still among the living?
Mine too! And even the Barbirolli Vienna.
Would love to have you mention which recordings observe repeats and which don't. The Solti Brahms does.
I only do that where I think it matters. I used to be very dogmatic about it, but I soon realized that a great performance is a great performance whether it takes repeats or not.
I didn't much like what I heard of Mackerras's Brahms (syms 3 and 4) - it seemed a bit light and faceless to me - but his set of the serenades is terrific. I haven't heard better in terms of character and color.
Yes agree that Jochum/LPO is a great and the greatest cycle!
I also discovered two cycles, both by Wolfgang Sawallisch. One is a twofer (Phillips) with the Vienna Symphony Orchestra - poor cousin to the Vienna Philharmonic, I realize, but they did not sound bad at all. The other was with the London Philharmonic - they seemed to have improved (approx. 1990s) over the years since the cycle under Jochum. Sawallisch may have been dull, but his approach worked both times.
i attended once a rehearsal with Sawllish rehearsing the Bavarian Radio Orchestra for a recording ( Strauss I think) it was incredible how much his 'dull' many many many instructions made such a difference in sound. he transformed the orchestra. and boy, do I miss that kind of transformation on them these days...
Quick thoughts on the following?
1. Kubelik & Vienna Phil. (Eloquence). Some people prefer the second cycle because of the broader tempos, but I prefer this young man cycle so to speak. Plus, the VPO plays beautifully.
2. Ormandy & Philadelphia Orchestra (available only as a Japanese import as far as I know). The sound quality varies between symphonies, but I do think the performances are fiery.
One cycle not mentioned that I love, and it’s quite recent, has to be Andris Nelsons and the Boston Symphony. Such warmth and energy. A favorite moment of mine happens in the first symphony. When the woodwinds play that great theme of the fourth movement, Nelsons chooses to focus on the oboe, and the playing is so beautiful that I teared up.
My biggest issue with the Karajan is that the volume is so low. It’s a constant game of seesaw.
I need to revisit Jochum’s Berlin and now will dive in into the Dresden cycle.
I agree about Ormandy, but as you said, availability is an issue (as with Sanderling Dresden) so I reluctantly didn't discuss it. Perhaps I should have anyway. Kubelik I think is just a bit dull.
Thanks, Dave, I ordered the Mackerras from Alibris.
Another great list! Barbirolli is among my top picks.
Not me, but it's not bad.
I love Barbirolli as a conductor but his Vienna cycle is not his best. He has two great Brahms 2nd's--one with the Boston Symphony on video (and better sound on CD) and one on Orfeo with the Bavarian Radio Symphony that I think are really worth hearing.
@@Barbirollifan I have both the Vienna cycle (in Japanese SACD pressings) and the BRSO Second Symphony in Orfeo. I love them, while understanding the criticism over the VPO cycle.
Barbirolli himself was unhappy with the VPO Brahms cycle, he was unable to establish a good rapport with the orchestra, and was only satisfied with no 3.
@@patrickhows1482 I bought the Barbirolli VPO cycle when it first came out in the late 1960s when I was in my 20s.He was the first main conductor I saw so I felt I had to have this cycle.These were made at then end of his life when was tired and that showed in this cycle,it was good that he had one of the best orchestras in the world otherwise it would have been a disaster.I have the Abbado cycle which is a good overall recommendation.
Günter Wand has recorded 3 Brahms cycles: the first in 1982 & 1983 for RCA, the second in 1990 & 1992 for Profil en the third (live) in 1996 for RCA again. The second is one of my favourite ones.
The Profile recordings were live as well.
Mackerras Brahms. What was that Aussie smoking! What a revelation! What an epiphany!! Brahms like I’ve never heard before. Thank you so much for the insight!!
I heard Mackerras conduct the SSO at the Sydney Opera House many times in the 70s and 80s. No nonsense. Get on with it. Take a bow and leave. Great stuff. 11:16
Well that was an eye opening review of the Brahms cycles! Thank you for pointing me in directions I haven't thought to try, like Jochum, Dorati and others. Also, I would like to learn how to listen for the architecture or "line" heard throughout the four (or more) movements in a symphony, and how conductors execute that (or don't) - a concept I've struggled to understand for years. Sometimes I think I hear it but on the whole I think I'm missing something.
Well, I can't explain it here but I'll give it some thought. You're right to bring up the fact that there's sort of an accepted terminology and everyone uses it without really giving thought to what it means--I think often the language is just plain imprecise, but thank you for giving me something to work on. If I can nail it down, I promise I will do it.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thank you for considering this! I appreciate it!
I love the Mackerras, though I have only individual symphonies (and other orchestral works), and not the cycle.
The rap on Dorati was that he wasn't theatrical as a conductor. He let the music, as he saw fit, be what one got. So he gave no exaggerated gestures. The results speak for themselves now that he is no longer around. Well, that is why we have recordings...right?
I'm new on this channel. After listening to your recommendations on Bruckner and Brahms cycles, it's clear to me that I must get into Jochum. I may have one or two CDs by him among my approximately 3,200 classical CDs, so I definitely must make amends here. I'll go onto the video on Wagner Ring cycles, of which I have three, all from the 1950s (Furti, Keilberth, Kna).
Many bad ones on youtube, but indeed Love Levin and Jochum's versions. But my personal favorite for the 1st symphony is Eschenbach, whose coda has a different rendition and features a more prominent brass section pulsing behind the strings, making the ending even more majestic.
Love that EMI Jochum cycle, which I have on LP. I have recently discovered the Barbirolli set with the VPO which I find glorious (he really lets the brass rip when he can), though I know it's not to everyone's taste......
Aaaah...the glories of late JB!
Is it possible that we listeners (and critics}, sometimes look for and find elements in compositions that we want to hear, but that the creators never intended, and aren't really there at all? I remember being in a library years ago, and noticing the many books and articles dealing with various deceased authors' works. I couldn't help but think that, if many of them were to resurrect, they would be astounded at the analyses that have been imposed on their efforts. I think some of them might say something like, "Gosh, I never realized how brilliant I was!" On the other hand, I also recall Howard Hanson saying that elements in his music were sometimes pointed out to him that WERE there, even though he wasn't conscious of having intended them. This also brings to mind an observation Bernstein made in an interview, that composers sometimes aren't really that conversant about their own scores, when he (Bernstein) was interviewing them for an upcoming performance.
Let me preface this one by saying don’t tase me, bro: Lenny with Vienna on DG is actually pretty good, including No. 4. No one thinks Bernstein when they think Brahms, but his straight ahead takes are reasonably colorful and well-paced. Mackerras will be my next listen when I’m in a Brahmsian mood; I finally got to his Beethoven and thinking’s outstanding.
As for the actual best, I think Klemperer pretty easily. Klemperer imparts the deep sense of majesty about the nature of life Brahms sought to elicit in his music. Walter close second; I LOVE him in mono.
I find Bernstein simply boring (on DG, Sony is better). At least he's not phased by he Third. It's as dull as the rest.
David Hurwitz yes, I didn’t reckon my view on this one would garner your support. I’ll check out the LB Sony cycle. I may be unduly fond of Bernstein on DG simply because it’s the first I ever heard - primacy and recency effect and whatnot. In general, I forget how much I enjoy Brahms No. 3. I’ll keep on listening!
Hello David Hurwitz. First, and important to say, I love your videos, it guides my choices, it really does and I discover a lot of versions that I love, now. Concerning Brahms and Karajan, I just want to partage the following, I own a two cds set bought at St Laurent studio where you can ear Karajan and the Berliner "live" at the Théâtre des Champs Élysées, Paris, 3 juin 1975 for the symphonies 1 and 3 and 2 juin 1975 for the no 2 and no 4 and I think it's Karajan at his best. They are my version, the energy is incredible and the transfert and restauration excellent.
Thanks for the recommendation.
@@DavesClassicalGuide You're welcome, he got a Diapason d'Or for that!
@@jean-marclefebvre5395 Whoops. There goes the recommendation!
I have to say, I've been listening to Szell's cycle, and fins it wonderful. That just excites me to discover the other ones you recommend!
Many people do. I am abnormal.
I have to ask, what are your thoughts on Bernstein’s cycle with Vienna on DG?
Dreadful.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Why so?
yes dreadful
Thanks for this. Wonderfully informative.
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you for the reviews. I finally landed with my favourite(s) recordings. Walter (Columbia) and Mackerras at the other end of the spectrum, I guess. Curiously I could not bond with Abbado mostly the quality of the sound for some strange reason does not come out well on my system. I even forged $ for the DSD transfer from tape of the three Walter available. Superb sound supporting a superb interpretation. BTW I also like period interpretation of other works - like Isabelle Faust on many violin concertos and sonatas - beat me with a stick but I stick to it :-) The Bosh small ensemble version of the symphonies is gathering dust so that should redeem myself somewhat.
Does anyone among the commentariat know of where its possible to download the Dohnanyi/Cleveland cycle? The obvious sources ignore it in favor of the later Philharmonia cycle.
Hello dave! Just Hurd Gunter Wand 1st symphony. I found it fantastic. The tempo is just right. Those 6/8 are some time too fast and sometime too slow. Here it just let the music flow. I loved the frasing of the orchestra and the string sound! My god!! The 1st violins amazing. Just a little timidity from the woodwinds at one or two spots! Thank you so much for your advices. You are making the process of hearing classical music even more FUN TASTIC!!!!!
Thank you!
wow! you're youtube channel is definitely one of my favorite discoveries of 2021! But more chamber music please.