Do aRPGs Have A Problem?
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- Опубліковано 26 вер 2024
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Last Epoch released to critical acclaim from aRPG fans, so why has it lost so many players?
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We just cycle between games during the different seasons and cycles.
Leaderboards are a must for a successful arpg for returning players. Not to be number 1 but to have a record of how your char is improving.
This was my thought when I decided to stream LE for AT LEAST a year, regardless of what's happening! People will come back with the next cycle!
Character designs in the game suck.
Yes, this dude is just looking for something that's not there
yeah, is just the cycles. I moved to poe then torchlight infinite, will prob come back to le after next season
I fail to see this as an "issue" its better for everyone to rotate & try different games not just play 1 game forever no one has time for that anymore.
Imagine playing a game, finishing it and moving on to a new game. Mind blowing I know.
Right. Now imagine playing a game and not having that feeling of hype and excitement fade over time. Which one is better?
The finishing a game part is what's mind blowing to me lmao
@@coreyrachar9694thats a you Problem Not a Game Problem in Most cases. D2 still exist why is Rhykker Not Just playing it endlessly Like He Said He was doing Back then ?? Did it get worse ?? NO ! IS IT not available ?? No IT IS still ! Well then its a Rhykker Problem ? Well yea If He frames IT AS a Problem wich IT IS Not but in his Arguments IT IS a Rhykker Problem. That Video is so braindead how did He still manage to defend D4 when pointing Out the "Problems" of LE
@@coreyrachar9694 Imagine a cure for cancer.
@@DharengoSo you're saying it's fine to want an infinite content game, it's just not realistic to actually expect one to be made? I agree with this.
There are so many games nowadays, I have games that I paid for and have not even started. I am from the 80s so I can say that the gaming world has changed greatly and gamers are not the same as the ones who watched the industry's evolution.
Yeah, the age groups of gamers have expanded as well. While kids and teenagers are the biggest group that play games still, it's decreased from what it was. Those kids from the 80s and 90s grew up and alot of them still play video games but don't have the time to grind that they used to.
I still play NES The Guardian Legend. As a kid, it was awesome. As an adult, it is still awesome. Such an underrated (and overrated at times) game.
Nothing strange about having played my fill for the moment, putting in over 300 hours and now waiting for the next cycle. 🤷♀
"What happened to Last Epoch* ... sponsored by No rest for the wicked.
It really IS FINE that we don't have to play a game forever. I love the variety we currently have in the ARPG sphere right now. I love the variety of experience and the multiple stories I get to experience
What a mess of a bad take one after another.
look hes a D4 player trying to cope
LE was always bad. You can cry all you want but the numbers show its not that good. What fans want isn't what it actually provided.
@@sparhawk2195 "the numbers show its not good" Yawn. Lots of people have finished playing, jfc. FINISHED, not quit. There IS a difference. Palworld had 2.1 million players and now only has 45k players. What do numbers tell you?
@@sparhawk2195 who cares about LE? I played it, I played POE, I played D4. LE is lacking endgame, D4 is lacking vision, POE is lacking beginner friendly things. And every one of them has its pros too. My god people coping on one game is so absurd
@@sparhawk2195lol what a load of crap. The numbers for all ARPGs do this. Stop trying to push your wrong narrative
Wait this is s sponsered video by a competitor? This doesn't seem ethical.
has been for a few years now.
"Competitor" more or less, it's an ARPG but it's not the same target audience.
@@antoineroussi3531 it's a d4 sponsored vid shitting on Last Epoch...
@@nyutrig it was originally a No Rest for the Wicked sponsored vid
@@dannyberry8725 the entire channel is sponsored by blizzard.
10:52 "we gotta find the new special sauce that it takes to keep us logging in every day"
NO WE DON'T. WHO would WANT to just play 1 game everyday for years at a time? That's INSANE.
why not? I'd love it if PoE stayed relevant for longer than the first week or two of a leaguestart but given how shit it's trading is trying to keep playing becomes more and more of a pain in the ass to the point where it's just not fun anymore. PoE is also not designed for people to play in short sessions imo (partly because of the way trading works too) imo it would only benefit from allowing that more
@@Chkoupinatoryour Take is so much better than the whole dogshit Video of Rhykker omg cant belive how delusional He must be. Yea i enjoy poe too after the League start and i Play Long Till the end of season even If trade is dead BC the Game is so good but i dont want that to be the way for.others If they can expirience new Games in the meanwhile they should and there is No Problem i am Happy of they come Back and they will so rhykkers Logic IS Not existent Just ragebait
@@Chkoupinator Don't play trade then. I get that people feel its inseparable, but trade IS and optional way of getting loot.
@@Chkoupinator trade league player brain rot moment
@@Chkoupinator Then play SSF lmao, your entire comment is literally a you problem
Buddy, U Missed 1st April
What you said: "special sauce"
What publishers heard: "more MMO-style FoMO events"
Yeah that’s immediately what came to my mind as well. I love the 20-30 day hardcore grind and then moving to something chill until next patch. My concern with the idea of changing this content loop is, the potential time gates or pay walls that may be introduced to artificially increase player retention.
At the start of the video he says there are still concurrent players for each game. That's the player base. the rest are hypetrain followers that buy whatever game is hot on r/gaming that week
Yes please dont put me in LOGIN jail. Leave these games alone. im happy.
That's the same thing
@@PapaPythhow about free daily log in bonuses …. And by free I mean 4.99$ haha
The player-based are the kind of players who get bored easily anyway, so most of us just jump from season to season of ARPGS. It's not dead, but temporary "dead".
1 2 3 steps, forget lol
@johnWayne-vd1qy I don't think you know what forget means. also this isn't a shot against last epoch. it's against the playerbase of these titles.
@johnWayne-vd1qy and too much of gaming on a whole. it's far too much New hype, old shyte. regardless of the quality of the game.
To each their own, but I never liked Last Epoch from the start. The graphics engine was just super dated and did not feel good to play. But, for a lot of people this game will be a good game.
@johnWayne-vd1qy yeah. it seems like some far off dream when people where simply excited for games...they simply interested in. no hype train. which i can admit, I have been apart of before.
I see you changed the title after all the backlash. Horrible take you should know better man. Action ARPG pegged your take right.
No, we don't need the one game to waste all our lifetime in it. You know, there are other games. And what is more important - there is also real life, business, family, learning new, books, music, movies, and nice places around the globe. There is so much to learn and experience. It's nice to play a well-designed game now and then, but there is stuff that has much better value or makes more pleasure than running pixels in the same game all day.
That looks a pretty normal graph for any game.
yes this is basically clickbait
@@johlargames I expected more of Rhykker
@@johlargames the game its bad, people realized and just moved on.
it’s normal for path of exile where people play two weeks of a season and get bored because they spent 10 years on the game already, this is supposed to be a brand new game, it should not have player retention this bad at all xd
@@coroto The game is great, people moved on, not all of them, at a rate similar to 95% of other good games. People will come back when they feel like it. Nothing to see here.
Seasonal ARPG commands seasonal attention -- what a shocker. Once the new PoE season hit, people migrated. More will migrate when new D4 season hits. Then, Last Epoch will enter cycle 2 and regain popularity.
ARPG players are not bound to ARPGs either, bet many have been playing Helldivers 2 a lot this past month.
Also, Torchlight Infinite
I enjoyed last epoch but I don’t see myself ever coming back to new cycles
I'm really hoping they fix optimization and crashing in online play. Maybe enough people will be happy if they just add new content, but that's what eventually made me quit (although I admit I was already getting tired of it after close to 300 hours).
@@breazybear stop lying, once new season hit creators will hype it up again including rykkers and you'll hop back on.
You actually answered your question with your D2 example. We were kids when D2 launched, we had more time to play and there were fewer games around.
and no other options
@@MrSkeezymak also, D2 was the first time you encountered a large scale ARPG. Now you know what to expect and how the onion gets peeled.
I still go back to D2 every now and then to realize its still one of the best rpg games. So its not about that there is no other options its just cos its so good
No leaderboards with seasons equals no players returning. D3 is an absolute blast for 2 weeks each season
I’m 35 and I still log in to d2R at least once a week
This should NOT have been tied to sponsored content for NRftW
I played it, had fun, moved on to other games, will be back later.
Does this guy need me to play only one game all day every day for the rest of my life? Is he high?
Must have gotten the Sponsor ship and forgot to think of a real Video Without ragebait
I think with D2, when we were younger there was just no game at its level. But we also didn't play more than a couple hours a day maybe less. We also just didn't expect new content, to make a game fun we only had so much money.
it was also just "OK" for games to be slower back then, now outside MMOs there are people complaining if their "slow leveling class" can't reach max level in 5 hours, and even then.
D2 was a much slower game then most ARPGs today, and that was "OK" especially when that was one of the only games you had.
I would agree. And also you were competing with youre self and few other players.
This gave you satisfaction and together you grew.
Now if just search for next đopamine hit.
That’s EXACTLY what it was
I played wayyyy more than a couple hours a day
Something strange happened, a seasonal ARPG game's season died out and people moved on to the next one in the cycle like literally every ARPG cycle in the history of ARPG cycles :p I think with the number of viable options today this effect is going to get much more visible across the board really. Especially if D4 gets their act together before the expansion hits and they're really scrambling to make it happen with those S4 changes so I'm not counting them out quite yet. Then finally Last Epoch is in this weird spot where it's not (yet at least) this super hardcore grinder where the most dedicated players can stick for 2+ months, and also not well known and pushed on the market enough to retain players just by existing like D4 can. So they're going to have incredible heights but also incredible lows during downtime until the game gets enough content to retain a core playerbase that'll play it regardless of what's releasing tomorrow. What last Epoch is not is the next Wolcen (even though their launchweekend would've suggested differently :p). The game definitely is good enough for players to return next cycle in as high if not greater numbers I'm confident in that.
i swear
How dare they do this! This is absolutely crazy!
By the time I get BiS gear (BiS meaning not just Unique pieces but 3LP+ with all 3 affixes that you want, with all 3 affixes on close to highest amount) a new ARPG will come out to try and play... It's been what?! 2 months? 3? Since LE came out and I have yet to hit BiS on 3 more pieces of my gear to be FULL BiS and I already have 1.1k hours played... I work from home and I'm only 24 so I play anywhere from 2 to 10 hours a day... Now imagine a normal person with a normal job, who can't play more than 2-3 MAYBE 4 hours a day AT MOST, they would need to play for THREE TIMES as long as I did aka. 7-8 months, to put in the same amount of hours as me and get to the same gear level as me... Yeah, when you look at it like that, you finally see how absurd and crazy these games really are... Not only that but the saddest part here is that seasons or ''cycles'' probably wont even last long enough for people with normal jobs to even get close to BiS gear, so they will NEVER actually get to experience actually finishing the game on a live server while competing with other players... That's just a ridiculous time wasting game design...
Time is something you will NEVER get back and I don't intend BEING FORCED to waste that precious time on farming a piece of gear, which thanks to a 70 IQ game developer, has a 0.0001% drop chance... No thanks...
JUST BECAUSE OF STREAMERS
I liked my first two lvl 100 playthroughs but I don’t see myself coming back for new cycles
9:55 How can that blow your mind? It's been like that for more than 10 years with D3 and any other seasonal game. I think it requires a very VERY particular kind of people to play this kind of game every day with no new content. Most people won't
He's been covering D3 news for over a decade and still dont understand it. Ngl, kinda idiotic from him
D3 has so many layers of endgame things to do. Upgrade gear to ancients or primals in order to augment. In order to augment, level up gems. Complete new alter achievements, complete achievements and conquests for rewards. No idea why brain dead devs did not copy D3 to D4. 10 years of fine tuning to the gem of D3 to throw it all away and make D4 crap.
@@Heiwananas hes on paid day by blizzard nothing new
@@pablito4202 blizzard simp
because diablo has rotted what is left of his brain
It is literally off season and people play PoE Necropolis. Watch when LE gets another Cycle people play it again, it's like you've never played an ARPG despite being an ARPG channel for the longest time I know.
As someone who is still playing, I noticed the same. I think it was a combination of the fact that D4 is trying to make a genuine comeback (which I AM excited for) but new content will be needed from Last Epoch soon if they want to retain their base. Monoliths are fun, but I can’t make it to 100 on any class before getting bored. Grinding for the same armor over and over again just better doesn’t really change the gameplay, just makes numbers go bigger.
Your point about it seeming that this has become the norm makes me sad. I want to find a game I can grind on for years… I played games osrs for like 15 years. So I agree with you wholeheartedly, it’s exciting to have something that actively draws you in and keeps you in. I hope we get to that again, especially with a badass ARPG!
Or, it's just normal, people will come and go. I'm sure many went to play Helldivers 2 for a while. Now HD2 will start slowing down till the next big content, then Manor Lord will come out, then another one and another one. It's just the way it is, Last Epoch isn't "dead".
@@Derzull2468 for sure, I don’t disagree with you. The genre, and even gaming in general, is cyclical for a lot of folks. But for me, and others like me, who want a game to stick with and grind out long term, they will need to add more content.
I still play Last Epoch here. Trying to level up my Void Knight. I go with my own taste than the popular. I don’t care much about 1000 2000 3000 corruption. I just find the fun way to play. I love the Weaver will and I love to check my luck on every time I craft or open slot on weaver will. Diablo 4 was already uninstalled. They are just disgusting and disrespect us the players.
Yeah I couldn’t even get to lvl 90, highest stopped at 89. Doing monolith over and over again becomes bored
I have finished the game, build a few classes and optimized them. now waiting for seasons and will be back when new season hit.
Yoshi.P, ff14 dev told players to play other game when they are done with ff14, same with Larian dev. A good game don't have to be played 24/7/365 days. There are a lot of other good game out there, and I hate when a game forced me to play it just to retain numbers.
POE is pure crack. I know it's not fair to compare a game that has 10 years of content behind it, but that's what you are up against.
There is no „game to finish” my dude. You're stuck in a 90's single player game mentality.
You dont finish an arpg. Like never ever. That's the core idea, it's an ever progressing system: kill monster to get loot, to kill harder monsters to get better loot, to kill even harder monsters...
@@danielsecara Finished and perfected are 2 different thing. Don't get them confused. you CAN finish ANY game that have a story and a goal. But its up to you to perfect it however you want.
@@hamakakun
By perfected you probably mean optimized, but then again you dont have a grasp over arpgs, so there's that.
Now, let's get back to your previous comment: how exactly did you „finish” Last Epoch? :)
What exactly was the finish point? :)
@@danielsecara lol and you are an expert? people play game for fun not a 2nd job, and fun are subjective. you do you sir. I set my own goal for how I play an ARPG and then I completes it. I tick it as finished in my book and move on to enjoy other things that life has to offer, instead of trying to win an argument with some random internet people.
I think the difference with D2 is that our parents didnt play them and they had the purchasing power. We couldnt get new games SO we played the ones that we had. Now we have the purchasing power SO we Buy more games
Exactly, we got like 1 game every few month, plus a lot of people didn't have internet or even if they had, there were no (or very minimal/hard to find) guides so the progression was much slower.
does make a lot of sense
Not even JUST that, there were not that many options to choose from anyway as it was. Sure there were A LOT of games, but none that operated like D2, or MGS, or FF did so well. That was the staying power. There were also fewer guides, fewer people to use as a resource, and that lack of mystery we have now is the biggest fail of them.
Also, there was much less competition in this genre at the time D2 came out. D2 was the undisputed king of the genre pretty much until the release of Path of Exile, 13 years later.
This is true, games back then were much more expensive aswell. You can get a quality game for under €40 today.
Today people have steam libraries bigger than they could ever play in a lifetime.
Me as a kid had 8 games total. I had to trade in my old games to buy new once.
I am a game developer, and this is simply impossible to do, and missderecting metrics that we should measure. A game called "Live Service" game for a reason, not a "Life time" game
This feels suspicious disingenuous considering that PalWorld didn’t actually release. It went into an open beta. The game is still an active development and hasn’t been completed yet.
Who would've played D2 for months with as many competing games on the market as there are now?
What???
@@Leaf__22 Thats the truth stop nostalgia coping
@@blackwomangamer2637 Exactly. There was nothing like the current ARPG sphere in the early 2000s. You had D2, Dungeon Keeper and...and what else?
You know what happened...... everyone finished the game and now we are waiting for seasons to start.
wait like they do with D4 yet D4 bad...
Last epoch doesnt have a robust endgame, hard to stsy in it for long and the grind to 100 is pretty fast compared to most other arpgs
I think it is crazy for it to be normal to just keep playing the same game. That’s bad for games if people don’t move on. I think this is perfect. New season comes out and people move to it. This should be a pattern for ARPGs.
Isnt it normal for people to play other games once they finish one?
I feel that it is. The only reason a company wants you to play their game and nothing but their game is because they want to monetize the fuck out of it and look good to shareholders. I don't feel that that's what 11th our games are trying to do.
then why did you guys not have this reaction with D4
instead of you make it like the worst game ever and people need to be harrassed if they play it
I used to be someone who obsessed about a single game and play it for insane amount of hours and I actually regret that cause I missed out on so many games. Now that I’m older with a job, fiancé, house, etc. I have even less time to enjoy my hobby. ARPGs have given me a way to grind out a game for a little bit, give me some more hours of fun in it, then take a break without feeling like I’m losing progress. Now I’ve gotten to play games like Ori, Hogwarts Legacy, go back and play games I missed. I love the way modern ARPGs work. They give me the feeling of obsessing over a game and loving it without the giant commitment
This is the answer. Seriously the amount of times i get excited to jump into a new poe season after taking a break for a year or a few months is great.
I think the issue is the easily accessible availability of different builds. People look up what are the best builds and strictly follow that guide of choice and the rest of the gear and character content is ignored... Back in the day there was no websites with people dedicating their entire time on mid-maxing different builds. Unless you had a friend that was a god tier theory crafter, the best you could get was putting out real money a physical copy of a game guide usually that was from Brady Games. Which would cost more than the game itself.
So, long story short. The magic of self discovery is gone.
Monos got boring for me pretty quickly
yea same
This, I found myself just starting new toons just to see which ones I liked, but as soon as I got to Monos I would quit & move to making a new toon.
Same
Isn't that the majority of arpg's- repetitive maps? You play until you've maxed out your character and played the hell out of your build. Wish there's an easier way to switch out builds quickly and easily to extend playtime without more grind etc.
Like others have said, I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding about the average gamer. I know I don't speak for myself when I say I don't like to spend *all my waking game time* on one thing. I like to cycle around. Play "Last Epoch" here to build up or test out an Acolyte build, play "Plate Up!" with my friends and yell at each other, play Stardew Valley with my partner and be cozy. Most gamers like different variation. And once I get my fill of LE, I'll move onto something else until the next thing they release grabs m,y attention, and it goes back into the rotation. Not as a near addictive obsession, but as a casual thing.
I don't WANT there to be a "new secret sauce" for player retention. We have a damn near oversaturation of content to consume, from video games, to movies, to tv shows, to books, and so on, with only so many hours in a day or week. You'll never get to all of them. So instead of spending my time on one thing that not enough of my friends play to get group enjoyment out of, I cycle around everything to fill my gaming enrichment.
And I know a lot of people feel the same
1st point: Shouldn't have a sponsor that is a competitor to the game you're having a negative view.
2nd point: This type of thinking leads to Battle Passes, FOMO, Grindfests.
3rd point: LE is brand new. It will grow and will add additional content, end game, etc.
4th point: The charts look like every seasonal game out there.
Rhykker must be new to arpg’s. You play them for a month then move on to the next one. Everyone will be back for the next cycle.
I still play Torchlight 2 and think it is one of the best action rpgs one could be playing right now.
I don't think everyone will be. The core gameplay just doesn't feel good enough to draw me back in, and I play all the other main ARPGs in the way you said above.
No this Video is Just a callout to the people who yell "d4 is dead"
@@Dooood89 D4 is just making its last stand, or slowly improving. However you want to look at it.
@@minuette1752 nop it's actually the Same season model, believe it or Not. People will Play at season start and people will move on If they get bored. That's the cycle
Like most ARPGs, once you run out of content it's hard to stay invested. People will come back for the next cycle to some extent, but the game needs more stuff to do in endgame in general too if they really want to retain a healthy player count over time. The systems of LE are great, but there just aren't enough things to actually do in endgame as is.
i doubt theres gonna be many players coming back for a LE cycle
Well the game is not dead its just almost 2 months into the season, and the new poe league also came out almost 2 weeks ago, so people who play other arpgs are probably playing the poe season. Thats just the life-cycle of arpgs, season drops people blast for a month or so, most people drop off after 2-3 weeks, they go play somehting else and when the next season comes everyone comes back and starts blasting again.
POE new season, D4 PTR, heck even new D3 Season. There has been a lot of stuff going on. People, myself included, will come back when they launch their seasons.
I’ve played it on and off for nearly 5 years. It’s a great game to go back and revisit every now and then. It doesn’t have repulsive grinding unlike PoE. The thought of having to grind dozens of hours just to get 1 piece of grey gear with the correct number, colour and linkage of gems just puts me off from pick up PoE ever again.
You're probably exaggerating, but that's not how PoE works.
Skill issue
"correct number, colour and linkage of gems" wtf are you even talking about
Filtered
It came out was good and like all good things that often remain good it gets forgotten when something new and shiny happens
Same that happens to poe after season gets older
This video has it backwards.
None of the best games were built with 1000s of hours of playtime in mind.
They had limited handcrafted scope for a playthrough, but BECAUSE that experience was good, players looked for reason/ways to replay.
You're comparing a delicious chef's meal to infinite supply of cardboard flavored slop.
2 months is good honestly new season in diablo 3 lasted about a week a bit b4 most get bored last epoch just needs some cool gimmicks for every new cycle to keep players entertained
you just described EVERY game that trends when it comes out after a few months of release. its not a question of "why", its just how it is.
this sentiment is what makes many devs want to inject bs like battle passes and timed events into their games and thats a bad thing. a game can have a beginning middle and an end.
Rhykker is a diehard d4 content creator. He will always attack any game that dares to challenge his favorite game.
Rhykker is the kinda Guy who needs therapy after He goes alt+f4 when He would Open the POE Skill tree
As I'm getting older and have less time to game in general, I actually love seasons in ARPGs. Generally I'll play for a couple of weeks to a month before I start to feel burned out, then I move on. It gives me something to look forward to - each season has just enough new content to make the experience feel different, and the resets keep things interesting. I think most people will agree the progression of going from a weak brand-new character to a max-level character with a complete build that crushes everything is the most satisfying part of playing an ARPG.
In my opinion, there is no way for an ARPG to keep you engaged ALL the time. If there was infinite progression then it wouldn't feel as meaningful. You have to feel like you are progressing when you play or you will stop having fun. Stretching a grind out for the sake of increasing player engagement is how you get games that don't respect your time at all. Then the game starts feeling like a job. And god forbid they start introducing some FOMO mechanics so you HAVE to play or you will miss out. That's the last thing I'm looking for.
I get where you're coming from since I put a lot of hours into Diablo 2 as a kid as well. But for me, it was the PvP games like Starcraft, CS, Quake, Unreal Tournament where I spent the majority of my time. These days, even PvP games have seasons and player count rises and falls around them. Seasons allow you to take a break and pursue other hobbies or even just other games, and then you can return at the beginning of a new season when player excitement is at its highest.
Most people aren'y UA-camrs/Streamers who play games for a living. Games and gamers have changed massively, especially the quantity of each, we're spoiled for choice these days.
Honestly, a lot of these takes feel really out of touch.
Sorry, but this vid is so misleading. Feels like the 'sponsor' is pushing a bit of content here? This is normal for pretty much all games. I mean of course, You (Rhykker) do say this is normal to some degree, but if it's normal, why make a video where you point it out? Anyway, I feel this is a bit unfair to Last Epoch....
Endgame for LE Is shallow and the unique pool needs fleshing out before it can develop 'legs' IMO
yes I also stopped because the endgame grind is honestly pretty repetitive and not very satisfying at the moment. Pretty much same as D3 seasons. only the few people limit testing 2k-3k+ super high corruption are still grinding away.
The mentality and scope of the uniques and sets definitely needs revisiting. There are so many builds I want to make but can't be made (technically you can do anything but satisfyingly doing so is the point I'm making) because of the limitations in imagination and weird ways of approaching the game. There are so many synergies in plain view.. to be.. untouched and perhaps that is intended.
Minor stat increases to the same enemies over and over until they are too strong for you.... Yes it's endless but what is the point? It get's so boring so fast. Perhaps having some type of aspirational content (ie something to work towards while grinding) could alleviate a lot of that.
its almost like it was its offical launch with its first league ever with a small dev team probably a tenth the size of diablo 4 and still has more content.
Let's not forget how many amazing games exist nowadays. I'm currently working though granblue fantasy reline, ff7 rebirth, dragon's dogma, immortals of aveum, soon stellar blade, the ascent, and probably a dozen others. I'm not sure any amount of end game content or system can keep me playing that game exclusively. So invariably I'll come back for a few weeks when there's something new to try, then taper off till the next season unless I've got nothing else to play.
Anyone with half a brain doesn't need to watch this. It's like Every game. We play we enjoy we get bored we look for the next game to interest us, or season. It's not rocket science.
yet the D4 bad cult use most of what he said to say how D4 bad? I am confused.
Variety and fast cycling between games is good because it keeps them in competition and forces innovation or at a minimum copying things that work
In my experience, the bigger "problem" is the saturation of games in all genres and the varied tastes of gamers.
I don't just play Diablo-like ARPGs. I like colony builders, and so I spend time with Rimworld and its ilk. I also enjoy survival/crafters, so I sink time in The Long Dark and Planet Crafter. Also, sandbox games that scratch the delayed gratification itch - enter Wurm Online/Unlimited. Logistics games? Oh yeah, gimme that Dyson Sphere Program & Factorio. Grand strategy; Crusader Kings 2 & 3. Survivor clones; Death Must Die and DRG: Survivor.
I may be a statistic, but my data point dips into a wide pool of options. I don't think Last Epoch is dead/dying as an ARPG. I think it's resting as game among myriad other games. If this is a problem, it's a good problem to have. The cycle system will show how it proves out long-term.
It's also because we are not committed knowing everything gets wiped so we don't wanna waste energy
Last Epoch has not been around long enough to build the end game into something like POE.
That new special sauce is that when you were young and played Diablo 2, you didn't have all days 24/7 to play and you had to do other things, your playtime was limited and you haven't experienced many things in virtual worlds. Today, you can play nonstop and you've seen sooo many games with so different content that nothing feels much new or exciting, so you get bored faster. I'm not sure game developers can overcome this. You can see the desperation even in the movies industry. So many remakes of "good old" things, all of those remakes are shit. We've all seen "everything" and there's nothing new and exciting. And when there is, it's only a few elements of it but the rest is then the same old that we all know. I think the problem is in too much and too fast consumption of everything by today's audiences. There is no boredom, no reset for the intensity of what you want, like with addictions. You start to get bored with 1 game, you start playing another, then another and so on. You don't give yourself time to reset.
I love ARPGs, but I think part of the problem is the player ends up grinding lesser content endlessly for gear to barely push forward, and unless you want to just get the best rolls on loot to knock off the tip top difficulty levels (GRifts, maps, etc), there's little reason to keep going. Sidenote: I quickly refunded No Rest for the Wicked before the 2 hour cutoff. Input queueing/artificial delay is not what I want in my ARPG experience.
I gave up on D4 after season 1. I will absolutely play LE cycle 2.
Was this just an ad for No Rest For The Wicked?!?
Yes
Lack of end game content is the problem with all these games
is that the problem with POE? Because people quickly leave that game soon after league start as well
@@etrosknight2254 yes
It's almost like ARPG's are seasonal games, imagine that.
Do aRPGs Have A Problem?
No. We just finished the game and moved on, jfc, it's not brain surgery. It's easy to understand.
Is it a problem with the Modern ARPG games...or a problem with us?
Both. Yes Zoomoids have an attention span of 5 seconds but EHG also willingly made a seasonal game.
There's many more options now.
Its not really a problem at all.. There are so many more games these days to play, why limit yourself to one. People will return to LE when cycle 2 starts. Variety is good.
@@warsmithhonsou5528 Zoomers dont play arpgs and mmos, even mobas are mostly millenials and up
I'm still playing LE but the reason why ppl have jump ship is cuz of lack of end game content. The game has some end game but it quickly gets exhausted after about a month. Then there's the terrible boss design where most of the boss attacks 1 shot w/o a telegraph because of animation desync issues. They admitted to releasing the game earlier than they wanted bc of POE2. I think they probably should have waited another 6-12 months and finished the game.
Aww man.. the one shots from bosses and some mobs are why i stopped playing Path of Exile.
Well i still played it several seasons though.
It's a shame, i just really hate that.
Us players need a clear sign to be able to dodge those attacks.
The difference between the D2 era of games and the D3+ era, is there are a lot more games out there, each that are far more engaging than they ever were in the early 2000s. The D2 model worked wonderfully back then, as I spent thousands of hours in that game back then. That same model today? Not a chance. Everyone I played D2R with stopped playing once new events stopped being added because there's more engagement to be found elsewhere. The game devs, in this way, *has* to be okay with players who leave the game for something else because they can't just crank out months worth of new content.
D4 S4 looks incredibly promising, from the little bit we got to see of it on PTR, but even then, I'll only end up playing it for a month or so and moving on to something new. Will it be Last Epoch S2? Will it be the multiplayer patch for No Rest for The Wicked? Will I go back and revisit Horizon Forbidden West and finish Aloy's story and save the world (maybe?) I can't answer that right now, but I'll know soon enough.
We are incredibly spoiled by the amount/variety of gaming content available to us today. This just didn't exist back in early 2000's. My backlog grows ever longer and I have to be pretty critical about what I actually pick up and play.
@@memory_null That's what i feel as well. I understand the 'worries' and it might be still a good topic to talk about, but i feel like we shouldn't forget that we live in different times. Not only we've an influx of 'casuals' or 'average joes' which just want to play games casually / normally - not just only 'nerds' grinding their life out for the next years (and even quite some of them moving on as well when getting a family / becoming parents and such); also the market is pretty (over-)saturated in terms of Games.
You'll have some people which might argue about quality of modern games, but even if there would be a lot of areas where you could criticsize stuff, there are just too many games people want to play, so that already takes some times. If you then also take into account that you've quite some live-service games, esp. in the ARPG markets each with their own seasons - it shouldn't be a surprise that gamers hop back and forth between different games.
I think there's a few things to consider here.
1. There's more games now than ever before. When Diablo 2 came out there were like a handful of good games that had come out recently enough to not look and play like dog poop and it was a while before another good one came out. Indeed, the ARPG genre itself really struggled and floundered after Diablo 2 until Torchlight 1 came out. So yeah, it's not really surprising it held a solid place in anyone who enjoys ARPG's gaming rotation for a long time.
2. The seasonal model is more aggressive than it used to be. Diablo 2 had seasons. But new content and mechanics weren't exclusive to the newest season. So for myself, most of my friends, and I would bet probably most casual players of D2, we weren't making a new character every season. We were just playing the same handful of characters, slowing leveling them all up to max and farming gear. Doing whatever felt fun.
Now, with the seasonal model, after I get one character close to or at max, I don't want to start another one because there probably isn't enough time in the season to get them there and then I'll just have to start over so I can play the new stuff! Honestly, I kinda hate the seasonal model. ARPG's having a seasonal ladder is fine, but the new content shouldn't be exclusive to the seasonal characters. That is the worst thing D3 and PoE bestowed upon the genre.
3. I dunno how to say this one concisely. I guess "topicality", maybe "FOMO". Gaming now has a large cultural aspect online. And if you're not playing the new thing you're not part of the conversation. So while Helldivers 2 has a lot of players who never played LE, it also probably has a lot of players who did. People want to play the game that is the now game so they can be part of the conversation. No one wants to be the guy 5 years after Skyrim came out going "Oh now I get the arrow to the knee thing."
You want to be able to talk about the game that everyone is playing with all your friends and online communities.
So yeah, in that respect, I think the Diablo 3 team, the PoE team, the LE team, and every game dev team are right not to sweat it when they get a surge of players when new stuff drops that slowly trickle away after that thing comes out. Years long retention like what games could hope for even as recently as the 2010s is just not going to happen anymore. That's not how most people play games now. There's too many good ones out there and our free time is too limited.
Having said that: lots of kids still play games that way because they don't have money to buy every new release. So games that are accessible to kids around 16 and under will still get some of that level of retention like Fortnite and Minecraft and whatnots.
I totally feel you. I grew up with Diablo 2 and it almost ruined my school career and social environment because I was so addicted to it. Hearing devs say "it's okay if you dont play the game until next season" feels very weird to me because it means that the game is not as appealing that you want to try out for example all classes within a season.
It's a combination of players getting bored with the current cycle, and chaos that was the merchant's guild gold spam abuse.
What annoyed me most in Last Epoch was the boons, that is if you wanted to change a boon then you had to kill the boss again and again for a chance to get the one you wanted. I would like them to be farmable and then you can freely change them around. then you can min max by trying to farm a higher %
This was planned for release but didn't make it in but it's coming also they're called blessings
If that is what annoyed you most then it makes me wander if you even touched the game, if you did then probably not enough to have any valid statement on the matter.
@@therissuishere my input is just as valid as anyones. For the record i got to 100 and corruption 400ish. What annoyed you the most from the elite player perspective.
What annoyed me the most as an elite player is that anyone who has barely touched the game, think their "solution" to the pseudo problem is absolute and should be taken immediately in action.
But as stated before, there should be a update next cycle where you get to keep all the blessing (with acquired rolls) you received after killing the boss and swap them around however you feel.
@@therissuishere ah i see, so other peoples opinions annoy you since you assume everyone except you only has 10hours played and thus have invalid opinons. Got it.
For me Last Epochs problems: art, animation, level design, character models, skill effects, monsters do not match the biome.
The only good things about the game are the skill tree and the crafting systems.
Duping controversy killed the economy and playing with a group was a in the ass. The game was awesome for like 20 hours then dropped off a cliff for me.
Hey folks, this is roasted in the comment
LE just doesn’t have the amount of content yet, doesn’t mean it’ll be like that forever.
This isn't it chief.
It will never be like what D2 was again. The only reason you have those feelings about it is because it was literally all there was. Those days are long gone. No ARPG will ever been able to capture a large playerbase indefinitely again. Games are to be devoured by the ravenous horde of perpetually hungry players.
I made 3 builds during 1.0 cycle.
Shadow Daggers Divebomb Falconeer, Explode Balista Falc and Bleed Warlock and every single build was nerfed middle patch because instead having the common sense to not nerf middle patch, they decided to listen to their majority casual community which most orphans from d4 on HOW to proceed on nerfing/bugs middle patch.
Still makes no sense in my head and after they nerfed my third build, I just dropped the game. I never saw a dev team removing fun from their game like LE devs.
so? Is he going to make a video of "What happened to Path of exile" After most player will be done with this season?
Fcking shitty click bait title.
its funny how its changed now to "Do aRPGS have a problem"
guess he got called out too hard for the reason you pointed out
@@jimjones96313.4k Likes 3.6k dislikes rn Well making the title even more General and more dishonest cant be the right Thing to do but yea wtf unsub for Sure
huge bad take from you.
Well, the same thing happens with every game, with the exception of a very small elite group like CS or LoL.
There are too many games, with too many releases. People's attention and interest wane much faster today than it did 10 years ago.
But for me, there is a difference between Last Epoch and Diablo 4, which is a matter of trust.
I don't trust Blizzard anymore. I'll definitely play Last Epoch again when a new cycle comes out, but I don't intend to ever play Diablo 4 again.
I don't actually intend to play many AAA games anymore, overall.
My interest right now is with Indie or AA games.
Daily you have people complaining about disconnects, connection issues, changing map issues, getting stuck in a load screen. Until the multiplayer is fixed up, it appears enough of the population just gave up trying to play online.
Dude times change, before when you were little you have more time, less access to guides and builds = more time completing your character, less money, no social media... etc 🤨
u might just have made the most pointless video on youtube, and theres channels where they watch paint dry
Ryker, you're out of touch
This video was very informative. Now I know for sure to never subscribe to your channel. Thank you.
I could not agree more. The first few days of a season are my favorite and then I get bored. It becomes this loop of tiny improvement. I hope someone comes up with the special sauce. Until then I'll keep rotating seasons.
It sucks as an ARPG content creator that the games are so seasonal, but as a player I just cannot enjoy the game for more than a couple weeks.
With loot heavy games, keeping in my head what loot I have, what to look out for and all that is a lot of effort, which is worth it while the game is fun. But after I have bis or close to that for everything, and the endgame loop is the same all over again, it is just not fun.
And im really happy the devs know and are fine with that, also feels like they respect my time as a paying consumer, instead of them trying to get me to log in every day like a scammy mobile game.
hahah what an absolute moronic take :D
Rhyker Diablo Stan forever xoxo
No balancin leading to the endgame being completely pointless, gold dupe leading to hyperinflation. No bug fixes lead to the arena being pointless, locked in and taking absolute hours upon hours to get on the leaderboards.
I think what aRPG's should aim for is the sort of ongoing meta-narrative that Helldivers personifies. Everything about each aRPG involves hordes of enemies in some way or anther, so building a game around that sort of ebb and flow of powerful enemies making constant attacks on the game world in different places only to have the players constantly pushing them back (or not) could be a reasonable way to keep players coming back week after week.
Now way, this was the point of DIII. I could play 20-25 hours a season. Have fun, experience what I could. I'm old now and more interested in work and life. This is the biggest selling point to me. I don't have to keep playing day after day in order to keep up. I want to play what I can, see how high I get on the leader boards and then go back to work and get excited for the next season drop. It's cool to hear everybody's great stories and watch the streamers max out characters and take each season to the max. But I'd rather the devs go for quality over quantity for each season. Last Epoch is doing it right.
Thanks for the vid, Rhykker. Always fun! For my part - I stopped playing Last Epoch because I am not really in the target group as it seems. I play with friends and solo - but much less than I used to. When someone plays like 2-4 hours a week - you are not having a chance to reach the real fun mechanics in the endgame before season ends, because they are locked behind a much larger amount of hours to play. When you realize you'll never get there - there is little to no motivation to go on playing. I am suspecting I am not alone with this. You might say - so why don't you play off - season? And the answer is - it's not attractive enough - and in the end it just takes too long before you get to experience what you actually logged on for.
Honestly too I think you'll find that our attatention spans are completely different now because of technology. When we played D2 we could focus on things a lot better. We also likely didn't have the selection of games we have now or the ability to get more at a whim. Now our brains are distracted by other games, the ability to buy other games at any time and play instantly (not just that we have money ad adults, but we don't even have to go to the store), and are distracted by UA-cam, Streaming, Shorts, social media, etc. We can no longer focus on one thing like we used to. We're too hungry for new new new more more more. Because that's what we've trained ourselves to do with all of the above. Slightly different but I feel that Streaming hasn't helped either. Games are a job now. People can play 12+ hours a day every day where they used to play 2 hours or something. (WFH provides a similar landscape too). No game can keep up with that kind of consumption. But those same people will also complain about no new content, dead game, nothing to do, etc. Games can't keep up with our attention spans. Not ARPGS, not MMOs, nothing can. We are ruining it for ourselves. D2 wasn't magic. It was a product of its time.
I believe there are several factors: shortened attention span, more dopamine options, and specifically with Diablo, the developers were also players, which helped to influence the game content. Even with D2 I eventually cycled through all the game mods, which is basically like the current season system. The Boss mod was the best!
at the time you spend years on a single game there was ONE giant difference, you did only have a few games to choose from, instead of the the 1000+ game steam library.
How we interact with Games has fundamentally changed since those days and with the amount of new and interesting Games released almost every Day it is not going back to spending all your time on just one Game you love, simply because you have basically endless options.