I'm not gonna say *never* because FOI is there to ensure free journalism, and true journalism may need to access these photos in order to ensure the police/coroners/justice system are telling the truth (because they're not always honest). However, completely agree that they should never be exploited. Imo a good way to prevent it would be a law to say that these photos can't be profited upon, that they cannot be redistributed. They can only be seen by the person who requested the FOI, and ABSOLUTELY should be punished for making money off of it.
I would love to see autopsy photos & crime scene photos. I don’t understand why we never get showed anything, it’s all just retellings. I wanna see what happened to the victim!
@@juicebox4vampsthe way some of these stories are told are already insensitive enough and you wanna see the bodies for what, entertainment? that’s an actual person who died, i hope you know how weird you sound right now.
unfortunately i think that's an overcorrection. the ability to request this information exists for a reason, and it's important that it remains available, especially for journalists. i don't think there's any responsible way to restrict access to file FOI requests---the onus just has to be on those filing to use what they glean responsibly. it's terrible that zav girl et al are profiting from these images and i do think a clause stipulating the images can't be used for profit should exist.
I was a jury member on a double homicide case in 2021. The autopsy photos haunt me to this day. They are burned into my mind forever. I can still hear the screams and cries of the mothers at the sight of these photos. I believe every member of the jury was traumatized during this moment. There’s no possible way people are looking at Gannon’s autopsy photos for “scientific” reasons. Imagine being a previously subscribed Patreon only to see these photos posted. They had not consented to seeing that and they are now traumatized. In no way is this doing any good.
if you can look at a picture of a decomposed child willingly and not feel anything there’s something deeply wrong with you and it’s time to take a step back from true crime babes…. i agree with angelika i watch true crime a lot but lately there’s so many niche communities that are truly disgusting and insensitive
Agreed. There’s literally a whole list of mental health resources for the people who work in CSI and Med-Examination because a lot of them feel so sad from doing their job. The person at the morgue who had to take them is probably on SSRIs from the trauma, meanwhile there’s freaks on UA-cam charging people for those photos. 😢
I know we shouldn't diagnose, but it feels a bit ASPD or similar. She can't even imagine that people would be upset by this, has no awareness/acknowledgement of the pain she's causing. There's no empathy at all, I can't imagine the most emotionally insensitive person I know doing this.
I have been into true crime for a long time but I am still reduced to tears many times just by hearing what the victims had to go through and see/hear how much pain their loved ones did and are still experiencing. I think true crime is a very interesting topic but if someone doesn’t retain even a shred of humanity (especially respect for the victims) then they’ve just gone off the deep end and should stop engaging with true crime immediately. It’s like the people who have cutesy podcasts/make up sessions/whatever - wtf goes on in their brains to act like this? Real people *died*. It’s not some stupid popcorn entertainment, but so many people treat it like it is.
I studied forensics and am now studying medicine and have seen hundreds of dead people in photos or in person and i still feel it every single time. Like yeah, I can objectively do what I need to do and get the information I need from them, but I will never not feel a twang in my chest when I see a dead person, whether in a photo or not. I dont know how anyone could be completely detached
Imagine being someone close to the victim and resigning yourself to never wanting to see the photos but then stumbling upon them because someone completely unrelated decided to make them hyper accessible 🙃
Exactly. His own father said the only day he missed court was the day they showed the autopsy photos. Now his dad says he is terrified to even go on the internet that these photos could just pop up anywhere. That to me breaks my heart and pisses me off all at once. Finally trial is over and it’s their time to try and heal but now this..
Zavgirls always been unethical and exploitative. She teamed up with pedaphile Gerard from AWP and alleged ethnocentric and bigot Ryan Upchurch in a bullying/doxing/smear-campaign against two other innocent youtubers, XanamayX and Ickedmel, whom they implicated in the death of Kiely Rodni. This is in addition to implicating other innocent bystanders and exploiting the pain and suffering of Kiely Rodnis family and friends. She hosted a creep PI who defrauded, defamed, threatened and bullied the family of Dylan Rounds. She gave platform to a 'UA-cam doctor' who made invasive speculations about the cognitive development and potential special needs of missing child Summer Wells for views and entertainment. Zavgirl has zero ethics, zero empathy and will do anything for views.
@@Tracylyn42 I would be terrified if I were him too. People on the internet can be awful. I wouldn't be surprised if some 13 year old, or an immature/twisted adult thought it would be funny to send the family the pictures thinking they were being edgy trolls. Or even someone being oblivious and posting it to a random reddit page and someone in the family accidentally stumbling across it when scrolling for normal entertainment. If I were them, I'd probably be too terrified to get on the internet at all-especially for the next couple weeks while this story is popular and the 'trolls' will be most likely to act crappy.
Zavgirls always been unethical and exploitative. She teamed up with pedaphile Gerard from AWP and alleged ethnocentric and bigot Ryan Upchurch in a bullying/doxing/smear-campaign against two other innocent youtubers, XanamayX and Ickedmel, whom they implicated in the death of Kiely Rodni. This is in addition to implicating other innocent bystanders and exploiting the pain and suffering of Kiely Rodnis family and friends. She hosted a creep PI who defrauded, defamed, threatened and bullied the family of Dylan Rounds. She gave platform to a 'UA-cam doctor' who made invasive speculations about the cognitive development and potential special needs of missing child Summer Wells for views and entertainment. Zavgirl has zero ethics, zero empathy and will do anything for views.
@@SparklerBlack Florida releases almost everything, if not all, documents to the public. Like Sarah Boone's letters to the judge. I think thats why "Florida man" is so big. Crazy people are literally everywhere but Florida's court/crime documents are especially easily accessible to anyone and everyone
You're definitely not able to just ask for them. She requested public information, and someone accidentally committed a felony by not checking that those pictures weren't in it. Big oops.
She didn’t buy them from the state of Fl. She bought them from Colorado. A lawyer from Fl speaking on it was stating the laws in the state that he practices, which is Fl. His opinion was they were sent by mistake since she asked for everything. In Fl if the autopsy photos are included the person sending them can be subject to a 3rd degree felony.
You can’t, anyone CAN request documents from Florida but it’s not a free for all. The coroner was suppose to remove sensitive info like the photos before giving her the docs but for some reason they just didn’t
I can’t even wrap my head around why anyone would want to see the photos. She priced his life at $3 and no matter how I look at it it just leaves an incredibly bad taste in my mouth. It’s unforgivable
It was definitely wrong for her to do that but it’s not unforgivable God will forgive her if she ask we all have sinned and fall short of Gods glory God says if we don’t forgive we won’t be forgiven And Gods forgiveness is the only one that matters in the end That boy is with God now and no one can hurt him anymore Let’s stop the hate an forgive and love one another!!!
@@vondaphillips she literally posted photos of a child’s dead body on her Patreon and used a child’s death as a way to make money 💀 how are u supposed to forgive someone after that kind of bullshit? 💀
There is a reason Kendall rae refuses to show autopsy or crime scene photos, EVEN IF they are public information and easily available. She wont even play a 911 call if it is too extreme. I am so glad that after all of these years, Kendall still is such an amazing human, works with the families, allows them to tell the story themselves now if she can and if they are able to or want too. She truly tries so hard to do so much research and makes sure that every single detail is a FACT and if not, she is so very clear that it is a THEORY and if the theory has any backing or not.
Yes. Kendall Rae is one of the few true crime channels I watch because of the respect she shows to the victim and their families. I also love how she will provide updates on cases and will admit if she provided incorrect information. Kendall, Brooke McKenna, and Dannell Hallen are three true crime channels that watch because I think they truly respect the case and victims/victims family. I also sometimes watch Danielle Kristy because I think she is incredibly knowledgeable in the law, and I think that is an important part of true crime.
I came across a picture from an autopsy of a man a few months ago on twitter and it fucked me up so bad for weeks. I can't imagine seeing pictures of a dead child, let alone SELL THEM.
I accidentally saw the photo of Kendrick Johnson after he was found deceased when I opened up a reddit link and it was probably the most horrific thing I've ever seen.
Travis Alexander's come up pretty quick in a Google search, as well as his body in the crime scene photography, and I stumbled on them accidentally while reading on his murder. It's kind of horrific how easy it is to find autopsy photos *by accident*.
Wait a minute… how on earth is it allowed for anyone to request autopsy photos of a child or any other deceased person?! Without a consent of a family member.
If we are to believe Zav Girl (and Natasha Cooper), they got access to the case file/autopsy report. Instead of covering what they learned in the case file, they instead chose to put Gannon's autopsy photos on full display for their paying members. I suspect that both these content creators saw an opportunity to provide the very content that they knew would never be provided by other true crime channels. Both Zav Girl and True Crime with Natasha Cooper have been, and continue to be, extremely problematic.
Freedom of information acts in the US are really weird, its one of the reasons why the public knows as much about the JFK assassination as possible. So it can be used for “good” but a lot of it is arm chair detectives, or for family members trying to do their own investigation because the government wouldn’t look into it fully.
There was no respect for the victim, or the family of the victim. This should be the only thing that matters in situations like this. The fact that people feel the right to photos of a strangers (let alone a childs) autopsy is disgusting.
What pisses me off the most is she went out of her way to make non-public crime scene photos public. I could see her point if she had used already public crime scene photos in a video since it's already out there. But the fact that she looked for, paid for and then released them, behind a pay wall no less, is so disgusting and out of touch
i think we need to start publicly shaming and calling out people who feel likes it’s okay to consume & defend content like this. i would be so disgusted if anyone i knew defended this behavior and engaged in the viewing of it.
some people are defending her saying things like “everyone makes mistakes” and “this is a learning moment” 🤢🤮🤮🤮 some people have no moral compass also in general her content is total junk so I feel like she’s scraping up the dregs of true crime fans. I’m talking about multi hour live streams (up to 9 hours) with tons of speculation and misinformation about active cases
@@cynthiaisako I'm still not sure if all of them fully get consent from family members to talk about their loved ones that were brutally murdered though. I also think it's strange to make a video about someone's death when you can't really get consent from the person because they are dead. it's good to bring light to the situation but there's always the chance some of the people who died may not have wanted their faces to be put out there on a UA-cam video. the people also get publicity, views and potentially even money from making videos about people who have died. I would not say it is 100% respectful when you cant get the victims consent to be put in a youtube video
@@noot1359 most of the time they are discussing unsolved cases which are not well known in the media so they are helping to raise awareness for the families and victims so the crimes can be solved. Or, they know who did it, but the police aren’t doing anything because there’s no media pressure. Kendall makes a lot of videos especially with victims families participating in them.
I don’t know about the other ones you mentioned but I should tell you that Stephanie Harlowe has victim blamed a victim, a teen who was murdered. It was sickening to hear so I stopped watching her. The victim‘s name is Bianca Devins. For context on Bianca’s sad story. She was brutally murdered by her “friend” who was obsessed with her. He was never her boyfriend because she didn’t like him like that (which Bianca told him and he was ok with being just a friend). He killed her because he got jealous and he couldn’t take no for an answer. Stephanie Harlowe said that Bianca (the victim) was “leading him on.” It made me so sick to hear that and it crushed me to see anyone would say that about a victim :(
Stephanie Harlow is mega copaganda and victim blames women. She's NOT a good true crime creator. She relishes new cases of awful things happening to people because it makes her money to cover emerging cases. She's so so vile.
They are not supposed to give out those pictures, they can give out most things but NOT autopsy pictures. It was a mistake that she got those, but she should've NEVER post them. She's so detatched and cronically online that she doesn't even see murder victims as people. They're just content to her.
I might be mistaken but, pretty sure you can obtain autopsy photos in Florida, just not photos of minors. Florida has really open information policies where it comes to coverage of crime. That's why "Florida Man" is so huge because crime reporting is so legally open there. Regardless of legality, wanting to see autopsy photos of ANYONE is horrific and demented.
Grey area?? Absolutely not! Imagine if you get unalived by someone you thought you could trust and then the pics of your injured body is being seen by strangers AND those strangers are making money off it. Disgusting! RIP Gannon.
I’ve watched true crime UA-cam videos for years. The women I watch sometimes will mention that during their research for the case they came across photos or videos but they always say not to look them up. I have never ONCE even thought about going and finding those photos after the video… Anyone who has those urges to see those things, is weird AF in my opinion.
I love watching true crime videos and documentaries. I am also a lawyer and while I was in uni getting my degree I did a student internship in a prosecutor's office - while there, I had access to some case files that included crime scene photos. Let me tell you - NOBODY needs to see those. And I do mean that literally - most of those have a description included, done by a professional (at least where I am) and those descriptions include explanations not only WHAT the photos depict but also what it probably means. And that's more than enough, believe me. Even of you're somehow desensitized there's no value added in looking at those pictures - you're not going to find anything new there, the only thing you'll accomplish is not being able to eat dinner after you get off work.
I had to watch an autopsy for a CSI class for my criminology degree. It was horrific, and it was an adult female. I can’t even imagine someone finding a child’s one entertaining. Sick sick people
Something is genuinely wrong with you if you can look at pictures of a child who got brutally murdered and feel absolutely nothing unless you were professionally trained to. I don’t even think actual trained professionals can say they feel nothing.
I had to take a course while I was in my first semester of forensics at my uni which was crime scene analysis. The textbooks I had to get included some very graphic crime scene imagery. Most of those photos took my breath away, some more than others since one of the textbooks I had to study taught us how to deal with different types of crimes. For example: arson resulting in death of animals and people, serial killers/suspected serial killings, rape murders... It was horrific- not to mention enough to give me nightmares. I remember viewing the crime scene photos of a rape/murder victim that had been featured on Forensic Files. Let me just say that I am so happy that the show's producers had enough foresight to NEVER show those photos on their program... and this was just crime scene photos and not the autopsy.
@@TiffWaffles In the US there is a Freedom of Information Act (1967) it is there so anyone can question the government's case against a defendant. It's not restricted to certified experts because that would not be transparent of the government. Granted what she did was questionably moral, but we can't throw out the baby with the bathwater.
@@kevinz.9785hat she did was wrong. not “questionably moral”. there was absolutely no reason to get that baby boy’s autopsy photos and release them on the internet. the fact that this is even a debate is messed up. this isn’t some chronically online drama that has no relevance in the real, physical world. this is about a boy who was brutally murdered, having pictures of his hurt and injured body being used for entertainment. there is no nuance here. it’s wrong. even if she had the right to purchase the case filed under the freedom of information act, it doesn’t make it okay to exploit a child’s death for monetary value
@kevinz.9785 If you think publicizing a child’s autopsy photos is “questionably moral,” you have no moral compass. Really gross. It’s also legal in most states to ignore an injured child. Legality doesn’t equal morality. (For instance there was a case out of Las Vegas where a guy witnesses his friend r*ping a child in the bathroom. He didn’t report it, the friend murdered the child, and the witness got no charges. Again legality does not equal morality.)
I’m a student at the university of Idaho where the 4 murders happened in November, because of that my relationship with true crime has completely changed I used to be a big true crime person because I find it interesting but after the murders I can’t go near some true crime stuff, and I’ve also become very critical of it too especially the stuff that was coming out after the murders.
My main concern is…who allowed her to purchase those autopsy pictures and is there even a verification process to make sure those pictures will be used for new reporting??? Even if, the thought of someone purchasing pictures of a deceased autopsy child sounds so gross. No one should be in possession of those pictures unless it’s the family or law enforcement.
@@DOCDOCFLAMINGOS You do pay for it, it's under the act but the documents are not free. I believe it was around $400 for the file she received. The act was set in place originally for journalists to be able to report on crimes that were not being publicly televised, autopsy photos are NOT to be included. The office left them in on accident is what the lawyer believes, but she did have to pay for the file.
@@berrymerry1141 Gotcha !!! I mean i figured she had to at least pay for the copies and the cost of mailing them to her... But no idea it cost that much out of pocket to get stuff like that !!.... Thanx for the info!
@@DOCDOCFLAMINGOS From FOIA.gov "There is no initial fee to make a FOIA request, and in some cases no fees are charged." beyond that it is, "$0.10 per page and then an hourly rate [$23-$83 depending on the level of research needed] of an employee performing the initial search and review services." Also, the fees can be requested to be waived in some situations.
I watch a lot of true crime content and this is so horrific. They're literally profiting of human suffering and not allowing these people dignity even in death.
I agree, I don’t know how she felt right after watching the trial and impact statements of his parents. They were torn up. How could she not think about their emotions and inflicting more pain on them. 😢
This has rocked out entire community. I had a huge panel last night with several true crime creators discussing how we can do better! We did a fundraiser and raised some money in Gannons memory. I know self promotion is annoying but this is so important so gonna link here
Yeah no you had it correct no one wants your nasty self promotion here its not important just annoying and gross and you're literally proving her point DerrrRRRrrrr
Gannon’s biological mother actually came out and discussed how horrendous this is, how the family have been forced to now see the pictures as they’re all over the internet, and her general horror at the situation. His biological dad called her ‘evil’ But, at least Zav girl’s patreon has been terminated and the video removed, however another person took the video right before it was deleted and is now spreading it around. This is all Zav’s fault, and I’m horrified people like this not only exist but justify their actions. (Also there was that comment you made like ‘how would you feel if it was your child’ someone asked her that and her response was ‘i would definitely be okay with it, stop thinking your way is the only way’ which is just baffling)
What happened to Gannon has given me literal nightmares (a UA-cam vid was playing on my tv while I was sleeping… I shut my tv off now), I want to know who paid for these pictures so I can name and shame them all day, what he went through no child should ever experience and knowing there’s people who want to see the results of that? Eff them all.
If the $3 level was already there, there's prob ppl who were there beforehand. But if it was created specifically for this kinda stuff... Name and shame all day
Let’s also point the finger at the vile people who paid the $3 to look at these photos also ? ? Shame on Zav Girl AND the vile people who paid to see autopsy pictures of a child ( or any autopsy photos )….Disgusting……really upsetting
I honestly get nervous being on social media because of people posting horrific things like this with no warning on some of them. I already deal with negative mental issues so seeing that on a totally "normal" day actually kinda makes my thoughts spiral sometimes.
I'm also an avid true crime consumer, but as a mom I cannot stomach anything with abuse or neglect, it makes me physically sick. Any of those kids dealing with any kind of abuse, I wish I could scoop them up and give them all the love they deserve. It's heartbreaking for me...
This IS so Disgusting and Heartbreaking for the family especially. For her to obtain autopsy pictures to put behind a paywall IS disturbing and so are people who pay for it. And that "apology" video is nothing but excuses. I can only pray she loses her channel and is out of our true crime community.
I personally think the way UA-camr Wendigoon covers cases is a really great way to see. He commentates on older and, at the moment, pretty well known unsolved or mysterious cases. However I think he does a great job of keeping the viewer very engaged by telling the story in as much detail as he can, and speculating in what I can describe as a very respectful way. He sheds light on lesser known parts of these cases, is not afraid to stand in opposition to a popular opinion, and gives really good explanations for his speculations IE not just saying someone looks creepy or has body language that "obviously" means they're hiding something and so they must've been behind the whole thing.
Wanting to access a child's autopsy pictures is not "scientific" or "detached" it's just morbid curiosity. And putting it behind a paywall to profit off it is another level of disgusting.
She should’ve immediately took them down. Thank P removed. Because she doubled down. She made stickers/emojis with child /adult victims faces for her channel members 😢. I can’t imagine how I would feel if stumbled across and saw my murdered family member. This is seriously disturbing and so hurtful! I can’t imagine what his loved ones are feeling. His parents victim impact statements were the most emotional I have heard. This just added to their pain only a few weeks after the trial ended. I pray for their recovery and emotional health! I don’t know she could ever come back. Because this has distressed an entire community.
my interest in true crime youtubers stopped when Bailey Sarian said she was sad the johnny and amber trial was ending and when Hailey Elizabeth started making her content exclusively on the most morbid true crime cases she could find
I straight up unsubbed to her and Swoop after that, I’ve resubbed (to Bailey, not sure about Swoop she realllly upset me with the AH/JD stuff but she’s made great videos on other topics since) since I kinda forgave her for that… I think. I also noticed she changed her content to much older crimes, she doesn’t talk about recent ones often if at all. I remember the case about the army couples and her whole take during that video made me want to gag… very victim blamey. I’m rooting for her but I think it’s perfectly fine to talk about the not so great things she does bc she def does them.
Oh Hailey!!! I used to love her… she really “sensationalized” her content and in one video she called someone a serial killer and they weren’t a serial killer… she never fixed the title :/.
Another one that made me stop watching the genre was Stephanie Harlowe. She victim blamed a murdered teenage (Bianca Devins) and was incredibly misogynistic and ableist about her. The way she talks about mental health is just gross. She also just projects herself and her way of thinking into a case to say what "they" would have been thinking or what she would do. I haven't watched the video to verify but I've heard she said that Elizabeth Short did not deserve to be murdered because she wasn't a s*x worker instead of you know being a human being and that being reason enough.
I saw that Bailey video - she laughed it off. It was an offhand joke and she even acknowledged the ridiculousness of it with the giggles.........................
Thank you for the warning, I do wish I’d listened to it😅 this whole thing is disgusting all around. Honestly I’ve never gotten the hype with true crime but I think that’s down to me being pretty sensitive and a lot of this stuff can trigger my anxiety. Honestly even like SVU and other police procedurals go to far for me a lot of the time even if they’re fictional because so often the stories are relatively common place and experiences real people have had or will have. I get informing the public, but when you’re monetizing the trauma of real people to me that’s just not redeemable.
Thank you for bringing up the mukbang true crime!! I always think that those must be so desensitised to the horror and violence to be able to stomach eating. Ive always appreciated Kendall rae and eleanor neale's coverage of true crime. Theyre incredibly respectful and usually post about a case in one video.
True crime has always been my favorite genre because it was my mom's favorite genre growing up and we both find the psychology of it really interesting + hearing the victim's stories. I would recommend Eleanor Neele and Danelle Hallan (besides Kendall Rae obviously) for true crime content that doesn't feel as cold and detached as the news (they really tell you about the victims, their lives, how loved they were, what plans they had, their struggles, idk is very humanizing and refreshing) and also not at all gossipy and disrespectful like the channels that do makeup or mukbangs while telling the story of these actual human beings whose lives ended a lot earlier than they should have.
@@Queueddd they are to me. I wouldn't personally find it respectful if someone talked about something horrible that happened to a loved one while casually doing their eyeshadows. But that's me!
Utterly speechless😢 thank you for covering this. It shouldn't be allowed. How does Gannons father feel about those pictures being seen, and someone is making money. It's sick.
The fact she would even want to post those photos, and they aren’t even her of her own child. What is wrong with her?! She’s right up there with the step mother that killed that innocent baby.
I can’t believe that not only didn’t she apologise, her statement was essentially guys “it’s okay, because I’m detached and so it didn’t effect me”. Absolute moralless behaviour.
I was just thinking about what I would be okay with and I remembered that I once listened to the story of the “slender man stabbing”. I looked it up to see how long ago it was and found an article where suddenly they showed a picture of her shirt with a lot of blood on it. This was enough to make me mad at the website for being insensitive and unnecessarily detailed so I can understand more how AWFUL this Patreon thing is…
as someone who works directly with autopsy photos, it is ABSOLUTELY not something anyone needs to consume especially for “entertainment” …. True crime really has taken a twisted turn
Florida has a law specifically ensuring the photos are not part of that release. They screwed up and sent her the photos. Why she didn’t send them back or destroy them outright is outrageous. I mean Vanessa Bryant just went to court of this very idea.
Disgusting! I have a fascination with true crime and I even started to go to school to be a forensic pathologist. That being said, even I can’t see why someone would want to see those photos. I think you put it best when you compared it to dark web/snuff type of content. There’s nothing educational to be gained there. It’s just sick and I feel so bad for the child and his family
I used to love consuming true crime content, but similar to your experience, my thoughts and opinions have changed about how I consume true crime content. That being said, I could never imagine wanting to see autopsy photos of somebody’s corpse in a case I’m not related to in any way. I’ve done cadaver dissections for anatomy classes in my undergrad, but we ALWAYS treated the bodies with respect. I feel like autopsy photos should never be able to be released to the public and it’s so disrespectful of the dead and the surviving family. I can’t imagine wanting to capitalize off of the grief and trauma of someone else 🤷🏻♀️ and the fact that she doubled down makes it even more gross.
No, just NO! For this to be any autopsy picture would be bad enough, but an 11 year old child, who has been stabbed so many times and beaten, is disgusting. You can’t share pictures without parental consent when a child is alive, you can’t legally share naked pictures of a child when they are alive, so HOW can you when they have passed????
I watch tons of horror and true crime but I would never think of paying to look at a poor child like that. It’s not just gross but also sad because they are a real person and paying to view them like that feels inhumane
I’m usually a devils advocate for morbid curiosity, as someone with mental illness I understand how sometimes you could get detached from reality, but there’s literally professional places for that, like Angelika said. Med students, coroners, morticians, etc. people who WILLINGLY sign up for that line of work and are TRAINED to deal with that stuff bc of how traumatic it is. Random people shouldn’t be able to just buy autopsy photos either, I understand court hearings being public, but gruesome photos? The public never needs to see that, and the families of the victims should be able to say “Hey don’t make these available to the public” that rule/law should really be changed The fact that this woman didn’t even apologize, but tried to JUSTIFY any of this, she needs to be banned off Patreon, I can’t imagine how this doesn’t go against their TOS, and also banned from UA-cam if her video actually shows the photos, what the fuck.
True, very true. I’ll admit I detach myself when watching some true crime content but I would never ever ever want to see anyone’s dead body and what was done to them, it’s an invasion of privacy and it’s so wrong, so very wrong. Who would want to see what happened to Gannon? A monster in my opinion. There’s already a ton of details out there regarding his death. I understand wanting to know the psychology behind these monsters bc it’s something I’ll never understand and I don’t think any amount of TC content will help me with that but it’s fascinating for sure.
The Freedom of Information Act of 1967 is a double-edged sword. Part of the transparency of it is anyone can ask for it, otherwise it would be transparent if you had to have certain certifications.
This girl that's posted this child's horrible death needs to be banned. And patron needs to be cancelled so she can't make any money from the Internet at all.
As someone who watches and listens to a lot of true crime content and am going into a career in forensic psychology, I would NEVER want to see an autopsy picture unless I was asked to do so with the family’s consent in order to help get justice for the victim. Even so, I could never do that without empathy. The fact that he was just a child too makes this even more sick. There is no way to defend this it’s just so shocking and her ‘apology’ took no accountability. I hope she is banned on every platform as soon as possible. I usually try to see both sides in these situations but this is unforgivable. Thank you Angelika for spreading awareness of this x
The thing is even in tv crime docs they heavily censor, don’t show, or have a reenactment of the crime scene. How disgusting of a person does she have to be to try and justify doing this.
This is sickening. I think as technology has evolved the laws around this should evolve as well-she should not have been allowed to platform and sell this
There are a very limited group of people who should see autopsies: people who need to do so for their jobs. This ranges from members of law enforcement who need it to solve crimes, to doctors as they have to figure out why patients died/need to learn anatomy as a med school student. This is immoral, and frankly disgusts me.
I had literally never heard of Zav Girl before tonight, but I genuinely cannot believe she has the audacity to say "people are divided" on her releasing the autopsy pictures. She clearly doesn't feel any remorse whatsoever for what she did, especially as her most recent community post says she just wants to move on and won't be discussing it any further, and of course her saying that she doesn't feel like she necessarily did anything wrong, as she just finds it interesting and informative. Like what kind of person would actually do that? And then she justifies selling the autopsy photos and hopes her audience finds it understandable?! I actually think this girl must be mentally unwell in some way; I believe no sane person would ever consider thinking this way. This girl is evil and I hope she gets her channel taken down and has legal action filed against her. Also if you read her latest community posts (completely understandable if you don't want to of course), she even says she wouldn't mind if someone did the same thing to a sibling of hers or even one of her own children...
Has she lost her mind?! I’m sure one she’s aware of how terrible his death was and the how much this has hurt the Stauch family, two where are her morales. I just can’t believe this
i agree with you. i only watch true crime channels and listen to true crime podcasts that are respectful, informative, and sensitive. i have been in and witnessed arguments within the true crime community that have put me on the fence of being on either side. there's people who are uncomfortably passionate about the subject, scarily passionate. it's all they consume and too much of anything is not good for anyone; the tragedies within true crime feels higher up on that list of something you shouldn't solely, specifically, only be taking in. and then when you mention this or anything along the lines of "hey, this is a bit weird to watch" they are concerningly defensive; they get angry, like their an alcoholic that just got told to slow down on the drinks. but then there's the other side, the side that simply spread hate maliciously towards anyone that has ever been interested in true crime content, without any consideration for the people within the community who are simply interested in crime, as angelika said, as i said, people who simply want to learn about the psychological aspects of the case. people who are there to and for support, people who are victims themselves whose cases have less or no coverage at all, people who simply care about humanity, the victims, what happened, and the why. people who felt alone or without anyone they feel comfortable speaking out to, asking for help. there have been lives saved within the true crime community; there have been missing persons, children, found with the help of true crime media. it may not be for everyone, but that does not warrant the closed, ignorant mindset of "anyone who likes true crime is a freak" or belief that we all just "like" to hear about the tragedy of others. i can't side with the assholes who wish death upon people within any community, including true crime, without the understanding of other perspectives, but i won't and will never understand the minds of people who will or do pay money their genuine fucking dollar bills to see the abused corpses of another human being, a childs. that is the exact type of shit someone should not want to see. putting a paywall on images of a "child's brutalized deceased autopsy pictures" should be considered criminal. people who cannot see what is wrong and fucking sick about that are the people who end up doing shit like that or witnessing it and saying nothing, doing nothing, feeling nothing. it's terrifying; disgusting. where is your mind? and why is it there?
I used to actively watch true crime content and I realised that it made me a really sad, angry person, constantly consuming content about the worst acts committed on people. I genuinely haven’t been able to watch any true crime content for years now and I’m so much happier for it. It’s just a sad horrifying topic to begin with, then you have a lot of popular channels almost trivialising it, making it seem normal, making jokes or doing their makeup etc. and I just think that’s so unhealthy, at least for me. I can’t even watch the more respectful channels anymore because the bad apples (of which there are many) have soured the whole community. The autopsy photo situation is honestly vile and no one should have access to those period.
This is absolutely disgusting, using the brutal murder of a child to profit like that is just so wrong. You made a really good point about coroners and detectives looking at stuff like this in order to solve crimes and hopefully bring about justice. Like I’m pretty sure they don’t find it entertaining, but someone needs to do it in order to bring the family some form of closure. And a lot of people get really messed up by the things they’ve seen, the idea of subjecting yourself to seeing something so horrific for “entertainment” really misses how psychologically damaging it can be to see such violence.
“I love how you just casually said “ my interest in crime - not committing crime, just interested in crime “ no pause, no giggle, just a passing comment. For some reason it tickled me haha
Hi Angelika, I'm not sure if you're aware, but the audio cuts out around 6:32 (before and after the first ad). I feel that this had happened recently, too, in your other videos. Otherwise, it's an amazing video!
I live where Gannon Stauch was discovered and I just wanted to let you know that the locals here continue to put up signs, flowers, teddy bears, etc. in his memory. It is a main roadway between the suburbs and the city and every time I pass it I think of him and I am sure so many others do as well. May he rest in peace.
I study forensics at university and I have seen some images that will stay in my mind forever, which I didn’t particularly want to see but due to my chosen course and future career path, this will be a regular thing. I cannot even comprehend how someone would even want to see autopsy photos out or choice let alone selling them, because when I first saw autopsy photos it made me feel physically sick. Thoughts and prayers go to Gannon’s family.
Same i used to loveee Bailey Sarian but then the little jokes and the "im not laughing. Its not funny" but giggles just rubbed me the wrong way! These are humans with family whos lost them, you need to be more aware!
I recently stopped watching/consuming all true crime content. I had been having issues with the idea of it for a while, like what you said people putting on makeup or doing mukbang videos while talking about true crime, and I’m honestly so glad that I stopped watching. Stuff like this makes me sick and I feel like, unfortunately, it just keeps getting worse and keeps happening more. I hope Gannon’s family can start to heal ❤
what's even more disturbing is how the goverment allowed this to happen in the first place they could've said no to respect the family they are also at fault to for letting a stranger to get this information even if it was used for a storytelling. the whole statement just saving their asses if they truly cared for the victim they could've said no
my absolute favorite true crime channel is Dreading. it's just a team of two brothers and they're always the most respectful and courteous to the victims and their families. the only time they ever do "update videos" is when it's an on-going case and those videos are far and few between since they try to put as much information as they can into one video. they never show their faces to distract from the story and they try to feature cases with low coverage to spread the word and share the victims stories (especially when it's a missing persons case or the culprit is still on the loose) what these two women did is absolutely disgraceful and it's people like them that ruin the name of true-crime youtubers with their foul actions. i promise there are plenty of respectful and wonderful channels out there!
Why do people feel they have a right to do this? This information isn't there to oo and ahh over... it's there for posterity and potential to set precedent. It's so the people and law won't need to question if an autopsy occured or get their information from a potentially false source. To exploit this system for "entertainment" should be illegal or at least worthy of a fine. Gannon deserves at the very least, respect. He has had his childhood taken brutally, his family has lost him, his friends have lost him, he will never be able to be a voice for himself again. So to take his last shred of privacy...because it's "interesting"... makes me tear up.
I'm a surgeon...i cut people up for a living and I don't want to see the pictures...so i can't understand why she had to publish the pictures, it's just awful.
I’m an embalmer/funeral director and I’ve seen these pictures and they should not be shown to the general public they are HORRID both the pictures of that little baby at the crime scene and his autopsy pictures are both equally as horrid.
once the autopsies been done those pictures should be sealed and put away. only those in that profession/working on the case should see them. i would hate for my autopsy pictures to be out there, i hate even posting on social media. this is vile and pure gratification of a mrdered child. seriously, go talk to a therapist if you’re holding “pay to view” parties of an 11 yr old’s dead body.
These videos of true crime and makeup/eating ect make the content more consumable but it's not meant to be consumable content, it's meant to be sad, hard to listen to and not entertaining to watch. As a crime scene cleaner I don't think it's right for people to be selling pictures of the scenes or pictures of the body. People are curious and will seek them out but to openly put a price on them and make a profit off of some poor persons death, and in this case a child is disgusting.
Autopsy pictures of anyone should NEVER be available under a freedom of information act request anywhere. To exploit them is just unbelievably evil.
I'm not gonna say *never* because FOI is there to ensure free journalism, and true journalism may need to access these photos in order to ensure the police/coroners/justice system are telling the truth (because they're not always honest). However, completely agree that they should never be exploited. Imo a good way to prevent it would be a law to say that these photos can't be profited upon, that they cannot be redistributed. They can only be seen by the person who requested the FOI, and ABSOLUTELY should be punished for making money off of it.
I would love to see autopsy photos & crime scene photos. I don’t understand why we never get showed anything, it’s all just retellings. I wanna see what happened to the victim!
@@juicebox4vampsyikes
@@juicebox4vampsthe way some of these stories are told are already insensitive enough and you wanna see the bodies for what, entertainment? that’s an actual person who died, i hope you know how weird you sound right now.
unfortunately i think that's an overcorrection. the ability to request this information exists for a reason, and it's important that it remains available, especially for journalists. i don't think there's any responsible way to restrict access to file FOI requests---the onus just has to be on those filing to use what they glean responsibly. it's terrible that zav girl et al are profiting from these images and i do think a clause stipulating the images can't be used for profit should exist.
I was a jury member on a double homicide case in 2021. The autopsy photos haunt me to this day. They are burned into my mind forever. I can still hear the screams and cries of the mothers at the sight of these photos. I believe every member of the jury was traumatized during this moment. There’s no possible way people are looking at Gannon’s autopsy photos for “scientific” reasons. Imagine being a previously subscribed Patreon only to see these photos posted. They had not consented to seeing that and they are now traumatized. In no way is this doing any good.
if you can look at a picture of a decomposed child willingly and not feel anything there’s something deeply wrong with you and it’s time to take a step back from true crime babes…. i agree with angelika i watch true crime a lot but lately there’s so many niche communities that are truly disgusting and insensitive
Agreed. There’s literally a whole list of mental health resources for the people who work in CSI and Med-Examination because a lot of them feel so sad from doing their job. The person at the morgue who had to take them is probably on SSRIs from the trauma, meanwhile there’s freaks on UA-cam charging people for those photos. 😢
I know we shouldn't diagnose, but it feels a bit ASPD or similar. She can't even imagine that people would be upset by this, has no awareness/acknowledgement of the pain she's causing. There's no empathy at all, I can't imagine the most emotionally insensitive person I know doing this.
I have been into true crime for a long time but I am still reduced to tears many times just by hearing what the victims had to go through and see/hear how much pain their loved ones did and are still experiencing. I think true crime is a very interesting topic but if someone doesn’t retain even a shred of humanity (especially respect for the victims) then they’ve just gone off the deep end and should stop engaging with true crime immediately. It’s like the people who have cutesy podcasts/make up sessions/whatever - wtf goes on in their brains to act like this? Real people *died*. It’s not some stupid popcorn entertainment, but so many people treat it like it is.
not even just true crime - It’s everywhere! Movies and tv shows are so graphic and violent - we are so desensitised it’s crazy
I studied forensics and am now studying medicine and have seen hundreds of dead people in photos or in person and i still feel it every single time. Like yeah, I can objectively do what I need to do and get the information I need from them, but I will never not feel a twang in my chest when I see a dead person, whether in a photo or not. I dont know how anyone could be completely detached
Imagine being someone close to the victim and resigning yourself to never wanting to see the photos but then stumbling upon them because someone completely unrelated decided to make them hyper accessible 🙃
Right like the Dahmer case on netflix, the families were retraumatized…
Exactly. His own father said the only day he missed court was the day they showed the autopsy photos. Now his dad says he is terrified to even go on the internet that these photos could just pop up anywhere. That to me breaks my heart and pisses me off all at once. Finally trial is over and it’s their time to try and heal but now this..
Zavgirls always been unethical and exploitative.
She teamed up with pedaphile Gerard from AWP and alleged ethnocentric and bigot Ryan Upchurch in a bullying/doxing/smear-campaign against two other innocent youtubers, XanamayX and Ickedmel, whom they implicated in the death of Kiely Rodni. This is in addition to implicating other innocent bystanders and exploiting the pain and suffering of Kiely Rodnis family and friends.
She hosted a creep PI who defrauded, defamed, threatened and bullied the family of Dylan Rounds.
She gave platform to a 'UA-cam doctor' who made invasive speculations about the cognitive development and potential special needs of missing child Summer Wells for views and entertainment.
Zavgirl has zero ethics, zero empathy and will do anything for views.
@@Tracylyn42 I would be terrified if I were him too. People on the internet can be awful. I wouldn't be surprised if some 13 year old, or an immature/twisted adult thought it would be funny to send the family the pictures thinking they were being edgy trolls. Or even someone being oblivious and posting it to a random reddit page and someone in the family accidentally stumbling across it when scrolling for normal entertainment. If I were them, I'd probably be too terrified to get on the internet at all-especially for the next couple weeks while this story is popular and the 'trolls' will be most likely to act crappy.
There's NO justifying what she did.
Zavgirls always been unethical and exploitative.
She teamed up with pedaphile Gerard from AWP and alleged ethnocentric and bigot Ryan Upchurch in a bullying/doxing/smear-campaign against two other innocent youtubers, XanamayX and Ickedmel, whom they implicated in the death of Kiely Rodni. This is in addition to implicating other innocent bystanders and exploiting the pain and suffering of Kiely Rodnis family and friends.
She hosted a creep PI who defrauded, defamed, threatened and bullied the family of Dylan Rounds.
She gave platform to a 'UA-cam doctor' who made invasive speculations about the cognitive development and potential special needs of missing child Summer Wells for views and entertainment.
Zavgirl has zero ethics, zero empathy and will do anything for views.
It really just doesn’t sit right with me that people are able to just ask for autopsy photos of random people
@@SparklerBlackshe bought them from the state of Florida you can thank them
@@SparklerBlack Florida releases almost everything, if not all, documents to the public. Like Sarah Boone's letters to the judge. I think thats why "Florida man" is so big. Crazy people are literally everywhere but Florida's court/crime documents are especially easily accessible to anyone and everyone
You're definitely not able to just ask for them. She requested public information, and someone accidentally committed a felony by not checking that those pictures weren't in it. Big oops.
She didn’t buy them from the state of Fl. She bought them from Colorado. A lawyer from Fl speaking on it was stating the laws in the state that he practices, which is Fl. His opinion was they were sent by mistake since she asked for everything. In Fl if the autopsy photos are included the person sending them can be subject to a 3rd degree felony.
You can’t, anyone CAN request documents from Florida but it’s not a free for all. The coroner was suppose to remove sensitive info like the photos before giving her the docs but for some reason they just didn’t
I can’t even wrap my head around why anyone would want to see the photos. She priced his life at $3 and no matter how I look at it it just leaves an incredibly bad taste in my mouth. It’s unforgivable
Letiticia took his life, Zav girl took his dignity 😢
It was definitely wrong for her to do that but it’s not unforgivable God will forgive her if she ask we all have sinned and fall short of Gods glory God says if we don’t forgive we won’t be forgiven And Gods forgiveness is the only one that matters in the end That boy is with God now and no one can hurt him anymore Let’s stop the hate an forgive and love one another!!!
@@vondaphillips she literally posted photos of a child’s dead body on her Patreon and used a child’s death as a way to make money 💀 how are u supposed to forgive someone after that kind of bullshit? 💀
There is a reason Kendall rae refuses to show autopsy or crime scene photos, EVEN IF they are public information and easily available. She wont even play a 911 call if it is too extreme. I am so glad that after all of these years, Kendall still is such an amazing human, works with the families, allows them to tell the story themselves now if she can and if they are able to or want too. She truly tries so hard to do so much research and makes sure that every single detail is a FACT and if not, she is so very clear that it is a THEORY and if the theory has any backing or not.
i will ALWAYS stan kendal rae she is so respectful and a genuinely great human being.
Yes. Kendall Rae is one of the few true crime channels I watch because of the respect she shows to the victim and their families. I also love how she will provide updates on cases and will admit if she provided incorrect information. Kendall, Brooke McKenna, and Dannell Hallen are three true crime channels that watch because I think they truly respect the case and victims/victims family. I also sometimes watch Danielle Kristy because I think she is incredibly knowledgeable in the law, and I think that is an important part of true crime.
I came across a picture from an autopsy of a man a few months ago on twitter and it fucked me up so bad for weeks. I can't imagine seeing pictures of a dead child, let alone SELL THEM.
I accidentally saw the photo of Kendrick Johnson after he was found deceased when I opened up a reddit link and it was probably the most horrific thing I've ever seen.
Travis Alexander's come up pretty quick in a Google search, as well as his body in the crime scene photography, and I stumbled on them accidentally while reading on his murder. It's kind of horrific how easy it is to find autopsy photos *by accident*.
Wait a minute… how on earth is it allowed for anyone to request autopsy photos of a child or any other deceased person?! Without a consent of a family member.
If we are to believe Zav Girl (and Natasha Cooper), they got access to the case file/autopsy report. Instead of covering what they learned in the case file, they instead chose to put Gannon's autopsy photos on full display for their paying members.
I suspect that both these content creators saw an opportunity to provide the very content that they knew would never be provided by other true crime channels. Both Zav Girl and True Crime with Natasha Cooper have been, and continue to be, extremely problematic.
I would bet that it was sent accidentally. When she saw that she had them, her greed motivated her to post them for profit. Sick.
Freedom of information acts in the US are really weird, its one of the reasons why the public knows as much about the JFK assassination as possible. So it can be used for “good” but a lot of it is arm chair detectives, or for family members trying to do their own investigation because the government wouldn’t look into it fully.
It’s used a lot by journalists too, it was originally put in place for journalists but hypothetically anyone can ask for a freedom of information act.
@@Warriors054 that is insane. I would understand for information purposes. But photos of autopsy of a child!
I am not sure we have such thing in EU.
There was no respect for the victim, or the family of the victim. This should be the only thing that matters in situations like this. The fact that people feel the right to photos of a strangers (let alone a childs) autopsy is disgusting.
What pisses me off the most is she went out of her way to make non-public crime scene photos public. I could see her point if she had used already public crime scene photos in a video since it's already out there. But the fact that she looked for, paid for and then released them, behind a pay wall no less, is so disgusting and out of touch
i think we need to start publicly shaming and calling out people who feel likes it’s okay to consume & defend content like this. i would be so disgusted if anyone i knew defended this behavior and engaged in the viewing of it.
some people are defending her saying things like “everyone makes mistakes” and “this is a learning moment” 🤢🤮🤮🤮 some people have no moral compass
also in general her content is total junk so I feel like she’s scraping up the dregs of true crime fans. I’m talking about multi hour live streams (up to 9 hours) with tons of speculation and misinformation about active cases
@@skincarejerk6040right like that's not a mistake she is a grown woman capable of using her god damn brain come on people
I’m an avid true crime watcher but this is too far. It is horrific and how they were even released to these UA-camrs is beyond me.
I love Kendall Rae, Mile higher podcast, Stephanie Harlowe, Crime Weekly and Lordanarts. All amazing and respectful channels. ❤
@@cynthiaisako I'm still not sure if all of them fully get consent from family members to talk about their loved ones that were brutally murdered though. I also think it's strange to make a video about someone's death when you can't really get consent from the person because they are dead. it's good to bring light to the situation but there's always the chance some of the people who died may not have wanted their faces to be put out there on a UA-cam video. the people also get publicity, views and potentially even money from making videos about people who have died. I would not say it is 100% respectful when you cant get the victims consent to be put in a youtube video
@@noot1359 most of the time they are discussing unsolved cases which are not well known in the media so they are helping to raise awareness for the families and victims so the crimes can be solved. Or, they know who did it, but the police aren’t doing anything because there’s no media pressure. Kendall makes a lot of videos especially with victims families participating in them.
I don’t know about the other ones you mentioned but I should tell you that Stephanie Harlowe has victim blamed a victim, a teen who was murdered.
It was sickening to hear so I stopped watching her. The victim‘s name is Bianca Devins.
For context on Bianca’s sad story. She was brutally murdered by her “friend” who was obsessed with her. He was never her boyfriend because she didn’t like him like that (which Bianca told him and he was ok with being just a friend). He killed her because he got jealous and he couldn’t take no for an answer. Stephanie Harlowe said that Bianca (the victim) was “leading him on.” It made me so sick to hear that and it crushed me to see anyone would say that about a victim :(
Stephanie Harlow is mega copaganda and victim blames women. She's NOT a good true crime creator. She relishes new cases of awful things happening to people because it makes her money to cover emerging cases. She's so so vile.
They are not supposed to give out those pictures, they can give out most things but NOT autopsy pictures. It was a mistake that she got those, but she should've NEVER post them. She's so detatched and cronically online that she doesn't even see murder victims as people. They're just content to her.
I might be mistaken but, pretty sure you can obtain autopsy photos in Florida, just not photos of minors. Florida has really open information policies where it comes to coverage of crime. That's why "Florida Man" is so huge because crime reporting is so legally open there. Regardless of legality, wanting to see autopsy photos of ANYONE is horrific and demented.
She got them legally from Colorado not Florida.
Grey area?? Absolutely not! Imagine if you get unalived by someone you thought you could trust and then the pics of your injured body is being seen by strangers AND those strangers are making money off it. Disgusting! RIP Gannon.
Poor Gannon and his family, I hope they sue and win.
audio cuts out at 6:27
I’ve watched true crime UA-cam videos for years. The women I watch sometimes will mention that during their research for the case they came across photos or videos but they always say not to look them up. I have never ONCE even thought about going and finding those photos after the video… Anyone who has those urges to see those things, is weird AF in my opinion.
I love watching true crime videos and documentaries. I am also a lawyer and while I was in uni getting my degree I did a student internship in a prosecutor's office - while there, I had access to some case files that included crime scene photos. Let me tell you - NOBODY needs to see those. And I do mean that literally - most of those have a description included, done by a professional (at least where I am) and those descriptions include explanations not only WHAT the photos depict but also what it probably means. And that's more than enough, believe me. Even of you're somehow desensitized there's no value added in looking at those pictures - you're not going to find anything new there, the only thing you'll accomplish is not being able to eat dinner after you get off work.
I had to watch an autopsy for a CSI class for my criminology degree. It was horrific, and it was an adult female. I can’t even imagine someone finding a child’s one entertaining. Sick sick people
Something is genuinely wrong with you if you can look at pictures of a child who got brutally murdered and feel absolutely nothing unless you were professionally trained to. I don’t even think actual trained professionals can say they feel nothing.
I had to take a course while I was in my first semester of forensics at my uni which was crime scene analysis. The textbooks I had to get included some very graphic crime scene imagery. Most of those photos took my breath away, some more than others since one of the textbooks I had to study taught us how to deal with different types of crimes. For example: arson resulting in death of animals and people, serial killers/suspected serial killings, rape murders... It was horrific- not to mention enough to give me nightmares.
I remember viewing the crime scene photos of a rape/murder victim that had been featured on Forensic Files. Let me just say that I am so happy that the show's producers had enough foresight to NEVER show those photos on their program... and this was just crime scene photos and not the autopsy.
@@TiffWaffles In the US there is a Freedom of Information Act (1967) it is there so anyone can question the government's case against a defendant. It's not restricted to certified experts because that would not be transparent of the government. Granted what she did was questionably moral, but we can't throw out the baby with the bathwater.
@@kevinz.9785hat she did was wrong. not “questionably moral”. there was absolutely no reason to get that baby boy’s autopsy photos and release them on the internet. the fact that this is even a debate is messed up. this isn’t some chronically online drama that has no relevance in the real, physical world. this is about a boy who was brutally murdered, having pictures of his hurt and injured body being used for entertainment. there is no nuance here. it’s wrong. even if she had the right to purchase the case filed under the freedom of information act, it doesn’t make it okay to exploit a child’s death for monetary value
@kevinz.9785 If you think publicizing a child’s autopsy photos is “questionably moral,” you have no moral compass. Really gross.
It’s also legal in most states to ignore an injured child. Legality doesn’t equal morality. (For instance there was a case out of Las Vegas where a guy witnesses his friend r*ping a child in the bathroom. He didn’t report it, the friend murdered the child, and the witness got no charges. Again legality does not equal morality.)
I’m a student at the university of Idaho where the 4 murders happened in November, because of that my relationship with true crime has completely changed I used to be a big true crime person because I find it interesting but after the murders I can’t go near some true crime stuff, and I’ve also become very critical of it too especially the stuff that was coming out after the murders.
My main concern is…who allowed her to purchase those autopsy pictures and is there even a verification process to make sure those pictures will be used for new reporting??? Even if, the thought of someone purchasing pictures of a deceased autopsy child sounds so gross. No one should be in possession of those pictures unless it’s the family or law enforcement.
No she didn't pay for them. She just requested it by way of "Freedom Of Information Act"...
@@DOCDOCFLAMINGOS You do pay for it, it's under the act but the documents are not free. I believe it was around $400 for the file she received. The act was set in place originally for journalists to be able to report on crimes that were not being publicly televised, autopsy photos are NOT to be included. The office left them in on accident is what the lawyer believes, but she did have to pay for the file.
@@berrymerry1141 Gotcha !!! I mean i figured she had to at least pay for the copies and the cost of mailing them to her... But no idea it cost that much out of pocket to get stuff like that !!.... Thanx for the info!
@@DOCDOCFLAMINGOS From FOIA.gov "There is no initial fee to make a FOIA request, and in some cases no fees are charged." beyond that it is, "$0.10 per page and then an hourly rate [$23-$83 depending on the level of research needed] of an employee performing the initial search and review services." Also, the fees can be requested to be waived in some situations.
Love th video!! But idk if it’s just my yt app, but the audio cuts for about 10 sec from 6:28-6:38.
Same
I watch a lot of true crime content and this is so horrific. They're literally profiting of human suffering and not allowing these people dignity even in death.
Gannons case was already horrific and heartbreaking and her PROFITEERING of photos of his body is disgusting I feel so bad for his family
I agree, I don’t know how she felt right after watching the trial and impact statements of his parents. They were torn up. How could she not think about their emotions and inflicting more pain on them. 😢
This has rocked out entire community. I had a huge panel last night with several true crime creators discussing how we can do better! We did a fundraiser and raised some money in Gannons memory.
I know self promotion is annoying but this is so important so gonna link here
Yeah no you had it correct no one wants your nasty self promotion here its not important just annoying and gross and you're literally proving her point DerrrRRRrrrr
Gannon’s biological mother actually came out and discussed how horrendous this is, how the family have been forced to now see the pictures as they’re all over the internet, and her general horror at the situation. His biological dad called her ‘evil’
But, at least Zav girl’s patreon has been terminated and the video removed, however another person took the video right before it was deleted and is now spreading it around. This is all Zav’s fault, and I’m horrified people like this not only exist but justify their actions.
(Also there was that comment you made like ‘how would you feel if it was your child’ someone asked her that and her response was ‘i would definitely be okay with it, stop thinking your way is the only way’ which is just baffling)
I've been a medical examiner for a few years now, but this is absolutely horrific.
What happened to Gannon has given me literal nightmares (a UA-cam vid was playing on my tv while I was sleeping… I shut my tv off now), I want to know who paid for these pictures so I can name and shame them all day, what he went through no child should ever experience and knowing there’s people who want to see the results of that? Eff them all.
If the $3 level was already there, there's prob ppl who were there beforehand. But if it was created specifically for this kinda stuff... Name and shame all day
Thank you Angelika !!! I feel like people aren’t talking about this!!! love you and phoebe !!!
Let’s also point the finger at the vile people who paid the $3 to look at these photos also ? ? Shame on Zav Girl AND the vile people who paid to see autopsy pictures of a child ( or any autopsy photos )….Disgusting……really upsetting
I honestly get nervous being on social media because of people posting horrific things like this with no warning on some of them. I already deal with negative mental issues so seeing that on a totally "normal" day actually kinda makes my thoughts spiral sometimes.
I'm also an avid true crime consumer, but as a mom I cannot stomach anything with abuse or neglect, it makes me physically sick. Any of those kids dealing with any kind of abuse, I wish I could scoop them up and give them all the love they deserve. It's heartbreaking for me...
This IS so Disgusting and Heartbreaking for the family especially. For her to obtain autopsy pictures to put behind a paywall IS disturbing and so are people who pay for it. And that "apology" video is nothing but excuses. I can only pray she loses her channel and is out of our true crime community.
I’m straight up disgusted. I never knew about this
6.25-6.37 i was sure my headphones just broke. The sound just disappears for me.
I can't believe she tried to justify it its insane
Makes you wonder, if this is what zav is doing openly, what dark shit are they doing behind the scenes?
6:26 to 6:36 has no audio- spooked me I thought my headphones broke
I personally think the way UA-camr Wendigoon covers cases is a really great way to see. He commentates on older and, at the moment, pretty well known unsolved or mysterious cases. However I think he does a great job of keeping the viewer very engaged by telling the story in as much detail as he can, and speculating in what I can describe as a very respectful way. He sheds light on lesser known parts of these cases, is not afraid to stand in opposition to a popular opinion, and gives really good explanations for his speculations IE not just saying someone looks creepy or has body language that "obviously" means they're hiding something and so they must've been behind the whole thing.
I’m so deeply grateful that you mentioned how inappropriate mukbang true crime is.
Wanting to access a child's autopsy pictures is not "scientific" or "detached" it's just morbid curiosity. And putting it behind a paywall to profit off it is another level of disgusting.
She should’ve immediately took them down. Thank P removed. Because she doubled down. She made stickers/emojis with child /adult victims faces for her channel members 😢. I can’t imagine how I would feel if stumbled across and saw my murdered family member. This is seriously disturbing and so hurtful! I can’t imagine what his loved ones are feeling. His parents victim impact statements were the most emotional I have heard. This just added to their pain only a few weeks after the trial ended. I pray for their recovery and emotional health! I don’t know she could ever come back. Because this has distressed an entire community.
my interest in true crime youtubers stopped when Bailey Sarian said she was sad the johnny and amber trial was ending and when Hailey Elizabeth started making her content exclusively on the most morbid true crime cases she could find
I straight up unsubbed to her and Swoop after that, I’ve resubbed (to Bailey, not sure about Swoop she realllly upset me with the AH/JD stuff but she’s made great videos on other topics since) since I kinda forgave her for that… I think. I also noticed she changed her content to much older crimes, she doesn’t talk about recent ones often if at all. I remember the case about the army couples and her whole take during that video made me want to gag… very victim blamey. I’m rooting for her but I think it’s perfectly fine to talk about the not so great things she does bc she def does them.
Oh Hailey!!! I used to love her… she really “sensationalized” her content and in one video she called someone a serial killer and they weren’t a serial killer… she never fixed the title :/.
Another one that made me stop watching the genre was Stephanie Harlowe. She victim blamed a murdered teenage (Bianca Devins) and was incredibly misogynistic and ableist about her. The way she talks about mental health is just gross. She also just projects herself and her way of thinking into a case to say what "they" would have been thinking or what she would do. I haven't watched the video to verify but I've heard she said that Elizabeth Short did not deserve to be murdered because she wasn't a s*x worker instead of you know being a human being and that being reason enough.
I saw that Bailey video - she laughed it off. It was an offhand joke and she even acknowledged the ridiculousness of it with the giggles.........................
Agreed. And so poorly researched too.
Thank you for the warning, I do wish I’d listened to it😅 this whole thing is disgusting all around. Honestly I’ve never gotten the hype with true crime but I think that’s down to me being pretty sensitive and a lot of this stuff can trigger my anxiety. Honestly even like SVU and other police procedurals go to far for me a lot of the time even if they’re fictional because so often the stories are relatively common place and experiences real people have had or will have. I get informing the public, but when you’re monetizing the trauma of real people to me that’s just not redeemable.
Thank you for bringing up the mukbang true crime!! I always think that those must be so desensitised to the horror and violence to be able to stomach eating.
Ive always appreciated Kendall rae and eleanor neale's coverage of true crime. Theyre incredibly respectful and usually post about a case in one video.
True crime has always been my favorite genre because it was my mom's favorite genre growing up and we both find the psychology of it really interesting + hearing the victim's stories. I would recommend Eleanor Neele and Danelle Hallan (besides Kendall Rae obviously) for true crime content that doesn't feel as cold and detached as the news (they really tell you about the victims, their lives, how loved they were, what plans they had, their struggles, idk is very humanizing and refreshing) and also not at all gossipy and disrespectful like the channels that do makeup or mukbangs while telling the story of these actual human beings whose lives ended a lot earlier than they should have.
These channels regularly do donations to families of the victims or organizations like NCMEC.
The makeup videos aren't disrespectful at all. What? The 3 I watch give you info about their lives and whatnot. Wdyem
@@Queueddd they are to me. I wouldn't personally find it respectful if someone talked about something horrible that happened to a loved one while casually doing their eyeshadows. But that's me!
Utterly speechless😢 thank you for covering this. It shouldn't be allowed. How does Gannons father feel about those pictures being seen, and someone is making money. It's sick.
The fact she would even want to post those photos, and they aren’t even her of her own child. What is wrong with her?! She’s right up there with the step mother that killed that innocent baby.
I can’t believe that not only didn’t she apologise, her statement was essentially guys “it’s okay, because I’m detached and so it didn’t effect me”. Absolute moralless behaviour.
And “scientific detached way” you are a UA-camr!!!
I'm scared of people like this 😢
I was just thinking about what I would be okay with and I remembered that I once listened to the story of the “slender man stabbing”. I looked it up to see how long ago it was and found an article where suddenly they showed a picture of her shirt with a lot of blood on it. This was enough to make me mad at the website for being insensitive and unnecessarily detailed so I can understand more how AWFUL this Patreon thing is…
as someone who works directly with autopsy photos, it is ABSOLUTELY not something anyone needs to consume especially for “entertainment” …. True crime really has taken a twisted turn
Florida has a law specifically ensuring the photos are not part of that release. They screwed up and sent her the photos. Why she didn’t send them back or destroy them outright is outrageous. I mean Vanessa Bryant just went to court of this very idea.
Glad I didn't know who this was and now I can stay away. Disgusting.
Disgusting! I have a fascination with true crime and I even started to go to school to be a forensic pathologist. That being said, even I can’t see why someone would want to see those photos. I think you put it best when you compared it to dark web/snuff type of content. There’s nothing educational to be gained there. It’s just sick and I feel so bad for the child and his family
I used to love consuming true crime content, but similar to your experience, my thoughts and opinions have changed about how I consume true crime content. That being said, I could never imagine wanting to see autopsy photos of somebody’s corpse in a case I’m not related to in any way. I’ve done cadaver dissections for anatomy classes in my undergrad, but we ALWAYS treated the bodies with respect. I feel like autopsy photos should never be able to be released to the public and it’s so disrespectful of the dead and the surviving family. I can’t imagine wanting to capitalize off of the grief and trauma of someone else 🤷🏻♀️ and the fact that she doubled down makes it even more gross.
No, just NO! For this to be any autopsy picture would be bad enough, but an 11 year old child, who has been stabbed so many times and beaten, is disgusting. You can’t share pictures without parental consent when a child is alive, you can’t legally share naked pictures of a child when they are alive, so HOW can you when they have passed????
I watch tons of horror and true crime but I would never think of paying to look at a poor child like that. It’s not just gross but also sad because they are a real person and paying to view them like that feels inhumane
I don’t even like when 911 recordings are included, something about them creeps me out so much so this is like a whole other level 😳
I’m usually a devils advocate for morbid curiosity, as someone with mental illness I understand how sometimes you could get detached from reality, but there’s literally professional places for that, like Angelika said. Med students, coroners, morticians, etc. people who WILLINGLY sign up for that line of work and are TRAINED to deal with that stuff bc of how traumatic it is.
Random people shouldn’t be able to just buy autopsy photos either, I understand court hearings being public, but gruesome photos? The public never needs to see that, and the families of the victims should be able to say “Hey don’t make these available to the public” that rule/law should really be changed
The fact that this woman didn’t even apologize, but tried to JUSTIFY any of this, she needs to be banned off Patreon, I can’t imagine how this doesn’t go against their TOS, and also banned from UA-cam if her video actually shows the photos, what the fuck.
True, very true. I’ll admit I detach myself when watching some true crime content but I would never ever ever want to see anyone’s dead body and what was done to them, it’s an invasion of privacy and it’s so wrong, so very wrong. Who would want to see what happened to Gannon? A monster in my opinion. There’s already a ton of details out there regarding his death. I understand wanting to know the psychology behind these monsters bc it’s something I’ll never understand and I don’t think any amount of TC content will help me with that but it’s fascinating for sure.
The Freedom of Information Act of 1967 is a double-edged sword. Part of the transparency of it is anyone can ask for it, otherwise it would be transparent if you had to have certain certifications.
This girl that's posted this child's horrible death needs to be banned. And patron needs to be cancelled so she can't make any money from the Internet at all.
Me reading the title : pardon
As someone who watches and listens to a lot of true crime content and am going into a career in forensic psychology, I would NEVER want to see an autopsy picture unless I was asked to do so with the family’s consent in order to help get justice for the victim. Even so, I could never do that without empathy. The fact that he was just a child too makes this even more sick. There is no way to defend this it’s just so shocking and her ‘apology’ took no accountability. I hope she is banned on every platform as soon as possible. I usually try to see both sides in these situations but this is unforgivable. Thank you Angelika for spreading awareness of this x
The thing is even in tv crime docs they heavily censor, don’t show, or have a reenactment of the crime scene. How disgusting of a person does she have to be to try and justify doing this.
This is sickening. I think as technology has evolved the laws around this should evolve as well-she should not have been allowed to platform and sell this
There are a very limited group of people who should see autopsies: people who need to do so for their jobs.
This ranges from members of law enforcement who need it to solve crimes, to doctors as they have to figure out why patients died/need to learn anatomy as a med school student. This is immoral, and frankly disgusts me.
I’m sorry?????
Edit: this is so far out of the realm of what is acceptable that I’m actually speechless. There should be legal repercussions for this.
It's absolutely ghoulish....unacceptable...
I had literally never heard of Zav Girl before tonight, but I genuinely cannot believe she has the audacity to say "people are divided" on her releasing the autopsy pictures. She clearly doesn't feel any remorse whatsoever for what she did, especially as her most recent community post says she just wants to move on and won't be discussing it any further, and of course her saying that she doesn't feel like she necessarily did anything wrong, as she just finds it interesting and informative. Like what kind of person would actually do that? And then she justifies selling the autopsy photos and hopes her audience finds it understandable?! I actually think this girl must be mentally unwell in some way; I believe no sane person would ever consider thinking this way. This girl is evil and I hope she gets her channel taken down and has legal action filed against her.
Also if you read her latest community posts (completely understandable if you don't want to of course), she even says she wouldn't mind if someone did the same thing to a sibling of hers or even one of her own children...
Has she lost her mind?! I’m sure one she’s aware of how terrible his death was and the how much this has hurt the Stauch family, two where are her morales. I just can’t believe this
i agree with you. i only watch true crime channels and listen to true crime podcasts that are respectful, informative, and sensitive. i have been in and witnessed arguments within the true crime community that have put me on the fence of being on either side. there's people who are uncomfortably passionate about the subject, scarily passionate. it's all they consume and too much of anything is not good for anyone; the tragedies within true crime feels higher up on that list of something you shouldn't solely, specifically, only be taking in. and then when you mention this or anything along the lines of "hey, this is a bit weird to watch" they are concerningly defensive; they get angry, like their an alcoholic that just got told to slow down on the drinks. but then there's the other side, the side that simply spread hate maliciously towards anyone that has ever been interested in true crime content, without any consideration for the people within the community who are simply interested in crime, as angelika said, as i said, people who simply want to learn about the psychological aspects of the case. people who are there to and for support, people who are victims themselves whose cases have less or no coverage at all, people who simply care about humanity, the victims, what happened, and the why. people who felt alone or without anyone they feel comfortable speaking out to, asking for help. there have been lives saved within the true crime community; there have been missing persons, children, found with the help of true crime media. it may not be for everyone, but that does not warrant the closed, ignorant mindset of "anyone who likes true crime is a freak" or belief that we all just "like" to hear about the tragedy of others.
i can't side with the assholes who wish death upon people within any community, including true crime, without the understanding of other perspectives, but i won't and will never understand the minds of people who will or do pay money their genuine fucking dollar bills to see the abused corpses of another human being, a childs. that is the exact type of shit someone should not want to see. putting a paywall on images of a "child's brutalized deceased autopsy pictures" should be considered criminal. people who cannot see what is wrong and fucking sick about that are the people who end up doing shit like that or witnessing it and saying nothing, doing nothing, feeling nothing. it's terrifying; disgusting. where is your mind? and why is it there?
I hope anyone who bought them and anyone supplying autopsy photos have horrible cursed luck for the rest of their time. What disgusting behaviour.
a very short sentence to sum this up for me is "what the actual f*ck"
I used to actively watch true crime content and I realised that it made me a really sad, angry person, constantly consuming content about the worst acts committed on people. I genuinely haven’t been able to watch any true crime content for years now and I’m so much happier for it. It’s just a sad horrifying topic to begin with, then you have a lot of popular channels almost trivialising it, making it seem normal, making jokes or doing their makeup etc. and I just think that’s so unhealthy, at least for me. I can’t even watch the more respectful channels anymore because the bad apples (of which there are many) have soured the whole community.
The autopsy photo situation is honestly vile and no one should have access to those period.
Absolutely disgusting what that youtuber did. Some people have no morals or shame
well this just ruined my day... some people are so SICK
Thank you for calling them ALL out
This is absolutely disgusting, using the brutal murder of a child to profit like that is just so wrong. You made a really good point about coroners and detectives looking at stuff like this in order to solve crimes and hopefully bring about justice. Like I’m pretty sure they don’t find it entertaining, but someone needs to do it in order to bring the family some form of closure. And a lot of people get really messed up by the things they’ve seen, the idea of subjecting yourself to seeing something so horrific for “entertainment” really misses how psychologically damaging it can be to see such violence.
How does anyone think it is OK profit off this horrible crime. I don't know what's worse, making it available for money or paying to see it
“I love how you just casually said “ my interest in crime - not committing crime, just interested in crime “ no pause, no giggle, just a passing comment. For some reason it tickled me haha
Hi Angelika, I'm not sure if you're aware, but the audio cuts out around 6:32 (before and after the first ad). I feel that this had happened recently, too, in your other videos.
Otherwise, it's an amazing video!
I live where Gannon Stauch was discovered and I just wanted to let you know that the locals here continue to put up signs, flowers, teddy bears, etc. in his memory. It is a main roadway between the suburbs and the city and every time I pass it I think of him and I am sure so many others do as well. May he rest in peace.
I study forensics at university and I have seen some images that will stay in my mind forever, which I didn’t particularly want to see but due to my chosen course and future career path, this will be a regular thing. I cannot even comprehend how someone would even want to see autopsy photos out or choice let alone selling them, because when I first saw autopsy photos it made me feel physically sick. Thoughts and prayers go to Gannon’s family.
Earning money from people's misfortunes only one question
*HOW CAN YOU SLEEP AT NIGHT*
The sword and scale guy has been cancelled within his own community for plagiarism multiple times
I only watch Kendall Rae and Stephanie Harlowe (both her channel and her podcast) because I feel they do justice to the victims and their families.
Same i used to loveee Bailey Sarian but then the little jokes and the "im not laughing. Its not funny" but giggles just rubbed me the wrong way! These are humans with family whos lost them, you need to be more aware!
I recently stopped watching/consuming all true crime content. I had been having issues with the idea of it for a while, like what you said people putting on makeup or doing mukbang videos while talking about true crime, and I’m honestly so glad that I stopped watching. Stuff like this makes me sick and I feel like, unfortunately, it just keeps getting worse and keeps happening more. I hope Gannon’s family can start to heal ❤
This is beyond disgusting
what's even more disturbing is how the goverment allowed this to happen in the first place they could've said no to respect the family they are also at fault to for letting a stranger to get this information even if it was used for a storytelling. the whole statement just saving their asses if they truly cared for the victim they could've said no
my absolute favorite true crime channel is Dreading. it's just a team of two brothers and they're always the most respectful and courteous to the victims and their families. the only time they ever do "update videos" is when it's an on-going case and those videos are far and few between since they try to put as much information as they can into one video. they never show their faces to distract from the story and they try to feature cases with low coverage to spread the word and share the victims stories (especially when it's a missing persons case or the culprit is still on the loose)
what these two women did is absolutely disgraceful and it's people like them that ruin the name of true-crime youtubers with their foul actions. i promise there are plenty of respectful and wonderful channels out there!
Why do people feel they have a right to do this? This information isn't there to oo and ahh over... it's there for posterity and potential to set precedent. It's so the people and law won't need to question if an autopsy occured or get their information from a potentially false source.
To exploit this system for "entertainment" should be illegal or at least worthy of a fine.
Gannon deserves at the very least, respect. He has had his childhood taken brutally, his family has lost him, his friends have lost him, he will never be able to be a voice for himself again. So to take his last shred of privacy...because it's "interesting"... makes me tear up.
6:27 GUUUUURL we know u muting urself for a REASON.
I'm a surgeon...i cut people up for a living and I don't want to see the pictures...so i can't understand why she had to publish the pictures, it's just awful.
There’s a lot of times where I think “I’ve never clicked so fast,” but this time, truly, I’ve never clicked so fast.
I’m an embalmer/funeral director and I’ve seen these pictures and they should not be shown to the general public they are HORRID both the pictures of that little baby at the crime scene and his autopsy pictures are both equally as horrid.
once the autopsies been done those pictures should be sealed and put away. only those in that profession/working on the case should see them. i would hate for my autopsy pictures to be out there, i hate even posting on social media. this is vile and pure gratification of a mrdered child. seriously, go talk to a therapist if you’re holding “pay to view” parties of an 11 yr old’s dead body.
These videos of true crime and makeup/eating ect make the content more consumable but it's not meant to be consumable content, it's meant to be sad, hard to listen to and not entertaining to watch.
As a crime scene cleaner I don't think it's right for people to be selling pictures of the scenes or pictures of the body. People are curious and will seek them out but to openly put a price on them and make a profit off of some poor persons death, and in this case a child is disgusting.