Māori academics respond to Dr Paul Moon's book 'Killing Te Reo Māori''
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- Опубліковано 14 січ 2018
- We are far too obsessed with pronunciation which contributes to te reo Māori’s failure. That’s a statement made by NZ historian Paul Moon following the launch of his latest book 'Killing Te Reo'. However, Māori professors describe Moon as biased and unprincipled when it comes to kaupapa Māori. Te Okiwa McLean spoke with some of the country’s top te reo Māori academics who want to respond to Moon.
from the segment it was difficult to understand the counter argument as all the commentators seemed mainly interested in attacking the writer personally
very common technique for tribalists and for socialists, and for racists. Don't debate the topic, which might get them beaten - pick on some facet about the writer which can't be denied.
(and then wonder why "Maori Lore isn't taken as scientific fact")
Yeah I noticed that too, essentially they said his argument doesn’t count because he has the wrong skin colour.
I thought academics would know better than to make that fallacious argument
You are not listening to his arguements, & countering them with your own. But rather your personal attacks against him are not doing anything for your cause. Stop the personal attacks & provide research that proves you right & him wrong. Then we will listen to you.
Not worth listening to a guy who can't even pronounce "Māori" correctly. Not worth respecting neither
@@IcchiNutz I'm nuts, you are no better than the jumped up Dr you obviously support. Your name says it all. I spoke to this Maori Dr by txt & he called me all the bastards under the sun. The Dr is not worth the time of day.
Paul Moon has actually released the book online for free, so their claim about him saying these things to drive up sales is absurd. Very disappointing to see Rangi and Pou (who are awesome and obviously know much more about te ao Māori than Moon) unable to see past Moon's Pākehā exterior and actually engage with his points. Moon's point about pronunciation was that the world's most successful language (English) doesn't have the same preoccupation about 'correct' pronunciation as te reo does, and that this flexibility has served it well in spreading across the world. Moon's points are I think very important and show how we have to contend with the reality of English (and why people around the world learn it voluntarily as a second language) if we are to revitalise te reo. If this is how leaders of the Māori language movement are going to react when confronted by facts, ka ngaro te reo.
Well said!
@@jwatstom I should clarify - when I said 'most successful language' I was alluding to the large number of people around the world who choose to learn English as a second language. Even though other languages have more native speakers, I believe English has the most when also including non-native speakers (I could be wrong about this, but I think the stats back me up). When we're trying to figure out what motivates people to learn a 2nd language, this is the stat worth paying attention to, as non-native speakers are the ones who have exercised their own choice to learn the language. The question is why, and how can we mobilise the same motivation for the revitalisation of te reo. Hope this makes sense and clarifies what I meant when I said 'most successful language'. Not the best wording on my part.
@@fergusbyett8088much less "chose" and more so "forced upon" us don't you think?
@@IcchiNutz You're right, I was just talking about those who choose to learn English around the world. Of course there is a horrible history of coercion to go alongside that as well.
@@fergusbyett8088 I believe a lot of what holds back the revitalisation of te reo is the attitude people have toward Māori. I think this attitude has been installed in NZ culture through stereotypes, misleading interpretation of data and misinformation.
The reason why some people get defensive with te reo Māori (and the culture) is because it was near extinction. So much of our culture and language has been misinterpreted and it’s taking a lot of work to not only correct it but also make it common knowledge here. People want to make sure it is revitalised properly
Sorry to see this, there's no objective criticism as such from the Maori language experts.
1:50 and why bother learning a language if at any disagreement they play the race card and deplatform you, not on topic but on the racist point of not being Maori.
i korero mai a matou tupuna whaea i to ratou tino mataku i te ra i pahuatia ai a tarawera. kua heke nga wha tekau ma toru tau i tana hokinga atu. engari, i roto i toku manawa, e rongo tonu ana i tona reo, ara, te reo o nga ruruhi koroua i a ratou e korero tahi ana i te kainga, take, kia kotahi ai ratou; nga kohatu o tera ao. Te maha nga rohe, tata te whakakorengia to matou reo, na te mahi rihariha pakeha. Te marie hoki, e whakahaumanu ana (new word to me).
E arohana au, te mea, kahore te ia o to matou tupuna reo e rongo au i roto i tenei reo haumanu. E pai ana, ka tupou. Naianei kua mea, kaua e raru mena e he ana te whakaputa mai a nga kupu. No tena, ka tino whakararua au, te mea katahi ka hanga e ratou he reo ke: piringa kore ki to matou reo tupuna. korekore rawa au e whakaae.
our nana once talked of her terror when tarawera erupted. 43 years on from her passing, and i can still hear our nana's reo as she and various ruruhi and koroua would gather at our home for no other reason than to gather: the wisdom of a passing age.
reo useage was almost wiped out in many regions of aotearoa due to colonisation but thankfully it is being revitalised. the rhythm of our tupuna reo is hardly heard these days and i sadly accept that. But to say that pronunciation is of no importance is to encourage the creation of a language totally divorced from its origins. i will never accept that.
Ainei pea he mea pai te pukapuka raka kia whakaohongia wetahi o tatou ki te korero Maori
Ka pai körua no roto i a Hinepūkohurangi àna töna kai nërä... kaihamuti ktk
Ko tä te ware he muhukai
Maumau taku wä ki ënei mömö. Nä ënei kupu whakiti anö i rangatira ai tö tätou reo rangatira. Mauri Ora!
Me whakapiri tonu taatou te iwi Maori me taatou nga iwi o nga hou e wha o Aotearoa kia tipu te reo.
Beautiful language
Me piri koe ki to ake reo pakeha, e te tangata kaikiri rawa atu.
What I find absolutely incredible here - is that Paul Moon has never in his life bothered to:-
1) become fluent in Te Reo Māori
2) contribute to the national restoration of any other indigenous language
3) bothered to consult the pre-eminent language revitalisation experts of te ao māori in writing his uneducated thoughts about the indigenous language(s) of Aotearoa down
4) decided to publish this piece of rubbish anyway based on no hard evidence that his hypotheses about te reo revitalisation are correct.
What an complete waste of time for māori and Tāngata Tiriti getting busy with keeping te reo alive quite inspite of Moons unsolicited thought farts on the subject he is no expert on. But here’s the rub - the cheeky sod knows the controversy sells books - and that’s all he’s done … appropriate māori history for a quick dollar … sad.
Ba humbug
And you are no better than the Maori experts. You attack & ridicule the man. At the beginning of your argument, you laid out some valid points, but toward the end you lose the plot become foul & integrity flies out of the window.
You are the humbug .
@@jamesproudlove1527 - Far cough askhole … who made you Mistress Headmaster here? No one cares about your tender sensibilities. No one owes Moon “nice manners”. This isn’t 19th century New Zealand under Pious Christian Rule where the savage natives must toe the white line … you in the 21st century you cum dunt - We say it straight, hard and to the point. Facts matter not your “feelings”… you far king snow flakes wanna cry go stand in a corner of “no fucks given”. The flock do you think you are you Can’t Face.
There … how do you like them kumara …James?!!!
@@tiatamara11 - Aaaaaaaannnnnndddddddddd zero farks given … now … far cough you cum dunt and take your snowflake feelings to the “nobody cares about your UA-cam presence in here” corner of your mediocrity.
@@1Ma9iN8tive Devious use of English language phrases to express the utter contempt you personally have toward those with an alternate view. No debate or discussion allowed. Those who are like minded can take part in this farcical so called debate.
Your foul mouth & lack of self control in describing me as a "Fucken arsehole", "cunt face", shows the depth of depravity you are prepared to go to cancel me & others.
We're are not quite there yet, "where the savage", rules the land. Although, I get the gizst of your direction for New Zealand by the ruling Maori elite. The Post Christian era we live in will suit your foul intent for us all.
1:16 that chap needs to drop his racism. yes, pronunciation is important in foreign languages, but non-Maori indigenous people have a lot of bleed over words that have specific meaning and pronunciation too. As do the pakeha (people who born on foreign lands and don't have culture from NZ and have an "old country" that they remember and speak of that is not here.)
Nah. Y'all are just lazy
@@IcchiNutz No, we "Kiwi" (born from several generations of non or part Maori parents) are our own indigenous culture.
There are generally two fluid subgroups of this, the Kiwi's and the [modern] Maori Kiwi's.
There a re bunch of politicians also calling themselves Maaori's but they're intensely racist and on in it for profits and power for them and their close mates and families. They're no more Maaori than your average Maori Kiwi, but they're like Sinn Féin and all those other racist uprisings - no interest in the future, just in themselves.
@@temptempy1360 “two subgroups the kiwi and the Māori kiwi”…. Why are you stating this like it’s a fact??? This is made up gibberish. Kiwi isn’t an ethnicity. What you mean to say is there are Māori and there are non Māori. Māori are made up of iwi, hapū and whanau. Non Māori are made up of multiple ethnicities who have migrated here over the past 200years
@@Neff17 Sure there are plenty of Kiwi's out there (native born New Zealanders - good Kiwi bloke and gals) what is fake is the halfbreeds that keep insisting a group of one section of their ancestors validates their racism and invention of a new ethnicity based entirely on fictional re-interpretation of Maaori - I know people doing similar things about their Viking or Celtic ancestors, and it doesn't make it real, it is just playing fake revisionist copy.
@@temptempy1360 half breeds, half casts… these are all out dated terms based on blood quantum. Your argument and mindset is extremely outdated. You’re telling people they’re not Māori based on a western concept that we haven’t used in 30 odd years, indicating you were probably around in the 70s and 80s and still cling on to these arguments cause they probably use to work but now we know how stupid they are which is why they were thrown in the trash.
If you want to talk about fake, then wouldn’t it be more authentic to take the Māori concept of whakapapa when considering if someone is Māori or not?
In Māori worldview, there is no half this, half that, this percentage, that percentage. Māori isn’t even an ethnicity, the word means ‘normal’. It become necessary to use on arrival of pakeha/palangi. To be Māori, you obviously whakapapa to iwi. I am ngati porou. Ngati/Ngāi means ‘people of’. Ngati porou is people of Porourangi whose parents arrived here on the takitimu waka. From there you go to hapū, and the whanau… so if you are saying I’m not Māori because I’m a half breed then why does my whakapapa say I am Ngati porou…?
Can you give me an example of fictional reinvention of Māori…?
Water off a ducks back ya reckon lol
Seems crazy this obsession with race. Most claiming to be "Maori" are genetically mainly European anyway. We are all part something, but 100% human beings. If we are citizens of New Zealand, we should stop the divisiveness and get on with making this country a great place to live.
Non Maori researching Maori issues and publishing a book that critiques the Maori language is only offensive to these people because they don't want to hear the truth. How easily they forget that if you are Maori you are also European.
🙄 Oh get fucked you clown. Hahah you mad your ancestors and there attempt to wipe our way of life out didnt work 🖕 p.s none of us acknowledge our white blood so get fucked
WRONG! The only people on this planet who can tell me what I am, are my parents - and they tell me I'm Maori - not European - Maori.
stop being so racist
so missed the :) key. that was sarcasm in Pirate
@@jacquirob9046 if you have an ancestor that is not Maori then you are only part-Maori. But go live back in your little original design whare... or do you live in an European house, and shop at European style shopping centers etc
Once again maori being victims. Saying things like stick to your world just shows how broken maori academics are. What a disgusting mindset and has no place at higher education. Just shows that maori language is not for all of nz and infact the more maori and labour push it on the the 85% of the rest of us the more we will resist it. It's not my language nor our culture.
I'm going out on a limb here, but it might have something to do with this country's history. When you have a Pākeha settler government demanding the native Māori population assimilate to the culture of the Pākeha settlers, I guess some of the native Māori population are going to have trust issues.
@@Tehui1974 sweet saybon the east coast of the North Island then. Let the rest of us evolve
@@mfnzer Nice of you to give us back the east coast. How about the rest of the land that was stolen from Māori and given to Pākeha settlers?
@@Tehui1974 is that all of NZ. Did maori own all of NZ?
@@mfnzer The word 'own' is an interesting word. It means one thing in a Māori context and something completely different in a western context. I won't bother trying to explain the nuances and differences to you, due to derogatory statements you've made about Māori on this video.
The maori language was provided to maori to get by....they couldn't have coped any other way. The big farce in the 1980's onward proved maori is political garbage. English is made up of all other languages. Russian and China have great language skills. send maori over to the arts and keep it there. I debated my larger family and won. English is suited to NZers