Thanks Nate. So very refreshing to listen to a grounded person like Cristian. It lifted my spirit and painted a beautiful picture of a future where sharing and compassion is at the centre of our social construct. I am looking forward to enjoying such a future with all of you. Stay sane all.
This was brilliant Nate. After your frankly last week regarding the man who approached you to tell you that you'd ruined his life, my lasting thought was that you were missing a chunk of information and wisdom from ordinary people who don't specialise in anything but simply live through the current period, and have thoughts, feelings and actions with regard to TGS. What a wonderful guest, full of humility and grace.
This is the most "refreshing" conversation I have heard in a l-o-o-o-ng time! From Christian Sawyer to Daniel Schmactenberger, your guests are always thought-provoking and often inspirational. As corny as it may seem, "Mighty oaks from little acorns grow" is the refrain that sometimes comes to mind after watching a TGS podcast. This has certainly been one of them. Thank you.
I am searching for ways to do this within cities and suburbs. My sense is that we will all have to form small communities/villages in the place we are. I would love to be able to work with people in my neighbourhood to prepare for the next few decades.
I've been building earthen homes since the last year in Brittany, in a similar context, volunteers becoming friends, setting up a festival and helping each of us build our homes. There's a touch of magical madness to it, it's wonderful. It's called Love Shacks, they look like hobbit homes.
Nate you are a fabulous interviewer. Your kindness and curiosity come through clearly. Keep up the work digging into solutions. This is the way forward. Thank you. Also Christian, keep it going as you have, fun pace not race pace.
It is awesome that this is happening. The scale is workable now. How do you organize millions and millions or even billions to work together like this on a consistent and regular basis without violent conflict. We are great in responding to immediate crisis and we are pretty good at working in small groups of up to about 150 people. We have incredible difficulty coordinating at scale without falling into the trap of destructive tribal rivalry. This, for me, is the fundamental hurdle we have to leap. Otherwise our tendency to judge our own situation only in comparison to our neighbour will remain an Achilles heal.
Nate, I have been following TGS for some months. Thankyou for these insights. I was involved in a local work bee group for a dozen years or so about 15 years ago, here near Esko MN. A friend of mine who was a Finnish bachelor farmer did most of the organizing. He would find out about someone who needed a barn roof or hay harvested or manure spread or potatoes planted, etc., and would call around for folks to help. It usually involved work and lunch for most of a day. When he aged out of physical ability for this work the group faded away. I had forgotten how much satisfaction I got out of learning, socializing and helping I got from this belonging until this show. Thank you for reminding me of the joy of mutual aide. Kelly Smith
Christian made a great point about mental health. It is probably the greatest human problem and profoundly underrated by "civilization". Even the first man to land on the Moon to say "contact light", Buzz Aldrin, suffered from severe depression after he got back, was hospitalized in a mental institution multiple times, yet so few people are aware of it, because mental therapy is stigmatized. His book, "Magnificent Desolation" is a great read. The other challenge is coping with the collapse of the Abrahamic myths, perhaps the cheapest form of group "psychotherapy" provided every Sunday.
Awesome conversation with Christian Sawyer! Such wisdom and insight so dependent on doing useful stuff, both internally and externally! And we are celebrating here in Montana with the State Supreeme Court upholding the lower court decision in favor of Held v Montana where 16 young people sued the state for violating their constitutional right to a clean and healthful environment! A big deal here!
Excellent conversation! So much wisdom packed into one hour podcast. Thank you for offering Christian the opportunity to speak with you. This conversation brings down to earth in a positive meaningful way the importance of 'social capital' and the power each one of us has to make a profound difference. Oh, and loved the story of the juvenile Raven that came knocking at his door and as much as he made a mess of Christian's house, Christian totally embraced the opportunity to hang out with a Raven for the afternoon. Thank you Nate and Christian!
These kind of work party construction/landscape projects have been part of permaculture for 40 years. See Geof Lawton or the book Integrated Forest Gardening. Geof’s movie Urban Permaculture demonstrates this wonderful community action. Thanks for hosting the solutions.
Key words,"We have gotten no money for these projects." THere is a culture in this country built on this understanding. Glad you are making contact with it, Nate.
On any other podcast the unintentional guests would have been an annoyance. Or edited out. But fit perfectly in this show. Talking about the fly and the ladybug. Christian is an inspiration. Wonderful articulate young man. With an infectious message. Great way to spend an hour of my day. Thanks Nate.
What a spectacularly meaningful, important and beautiful episode. Much gratitude to you both for creating this. So positive and inspiring. The wisdom and practicality of this discussion is absolutely a motivator for me to start the process of becoming more active and engaging with others who share the same or similar values🙏🌎Just beautiful. Thank you
Thank you for putting on one of your listeners. Credit to you, and in this particular interview, most of the credit to his articulate discourse. Well done to you both.
So happy Christian took the time to talk, it is nerve racking to be doing such work, while finding the words to express such work on a single moments notice, the compression is insane to cover all the bases in a podcast about the self. Notice when he talks, there are very few academic references of a Socratic person immersed in the artistic framework of being. There is less time of books, when the land is calling. What of an emergency or emergent event, has no pieces of proof, papers, degrees, badges or political photo op, we live in surplus, with very few who can use their hands to help, every excuse is a stage learning in an academy with few tools of wear by human skills. The apprenticeship has been replaced by the bureaucrat of excess. Art is in every subject, every subject is of a science which can not be explained without art. These two subjects are not in school as they are critical of repetition in the want of experiment, the want is not a need, so we don’t know what’s in our local water.
Thanks! Great conversation. We're in the central New Mexico doing similar things. Agroecology, natural building, and community building. I'll reach out to Christian. Nate, I hope you will continue to add voices like this to the show. We keep a small and very biologically diverse pond for the ducks so they always have fresh water. It's occasionally drained to the orchard and market garden providing excellent soil amendment. The minnows raised in it are used on crops (like corn) and as chicken feed. The mental heath benefits of watching it all happen are real. Skip the SSRIs and take 15 minutes of duckling antics.
I love my ducks. They are messy as hell and a bit high maintenance in below zero Minnesota winter - but I agree - they are worth it. Btw - the ducks LOVE minnows- I had no idea - its like crack cocaine (but I don't do it anymore because I feel bad for the minnows). Just sayin. Good luck w your projects and work!
@@thegreatsimplification Thank you! We do have a couple ways to make a quick passing for the minnows. I feel it too, but have to view it in a food web/nutrient pump perspective. A great thing you all are doing with this podcast.
16:45 this! Our local permaculture group exactly, there's an underlying thread that people know or think about this stuff, but we focus on the task or activity at hand. Running the workshop, weeding the garden beds, etc. It seems people acknowledge the issues and the goal of the group is to work in a positive adaptation space for the local region.
Hey, Uberto from Florence, Italy here. So inspired by Christian and his community building model. Will definitely look into discovering if it’s possible to do it over here, Tuscany and Umbria (Assisi) areas. Greetings and love your podcast! Thank you! 🙏🏽
We are so blessed to live in the "4 corners". We are blessed with millennia of wisdom. I would like to thank the Hopi, Navajo, Zuni, Apache, and Utes. You have been decimated you have been exterminated. You are still here and you are still such kind and gracious people. I feel so blessed for these people to be my neighbors. I wish I had more time left to spend with them. There is an honest understanding find a shared sorrow that says I know sweetie there is something that looks reality in the face for what it is and still manages to rise above. I live near Zuni Pueblo and those people impress me. I've never met more kind people in my life. I will never leave and I will continue to do my part for this community. What a fantastic group of human beings I am privileged to call my neighbor! I love you all and if you need my hands I will be there. Thank you to all of the people of the four corners for making this such a special and wonderful place on the planet despite all of the b******* that's been thrown at you.
Very inspiring! As an artist in this exciting time of speed, I have similar sentiments about our world as Christian. Thank you both for showing up by example.
Nate, Jackson County Oregon has a group of landowners who organize rotating work parties. Many of the landowners have participated in the Land Steward program established by the Oregon State University Cooperative Extension.
What he says about therapy is the truth as well. My experience with therapy is that you need to find a therapist that loves you. We all need that. That person is out there. Weather that's an old medicine man or a young girl with blue hair. Find them. Let them help you. It is a beautiful thing
Framing, language, and narratives are critical pieces to consider when holding the space between the worlds of extraction & regeneration. What is considered as a "real" job in one is not defined as such in the other. I love the opportunity the space between offers all of us. This wise guest is awesome!
I echo all the above comments. As an architect and landscape architect I am disheartened at the constant refrain "It takes a village" without finishing the sentence. Thank you Hillary Clinton. I am working on a book entitled "What it takes to build a village." You and many of your guests provide the pieces of a solution.
This is how homesteading, and farm families have functioned: in cooperation. Remember 4-H? I pledge my head to clearer thinking, my heart to greater loyalty, my hands to larger service, and my health to better living, for my club, my community, my country and my world. Many of us were raised like this.
i notice a lot of people on climate/energy podcasts are speaking often about working locally on the things near where we live. this is generally very good advice. I hope people are getting the message. get to know your neighbors. mutual aid is in our futures.
Great topic. Looking forward to it. I hope you address how to convert skeptics. One tends to be labeled a doomer when you try to spread the message, which is why I'm looking forward to your primer. Something I've been wanting to do myself.
We're just starting something similar in Ireland more built around growing and food security. Work parties are a tradition here that we call 'meithals'. I cant believe the similarities though. Great to find this! I'll share in our group ❤
At 10:00, Christian talks about how the people involved were filtered through his and Ash's network connections. This is the Gatekeeper concept in action. At 13:00, he again mentions Ash as the "mover and shaker." For people wanting to put a similar program into action, the Gatekeeper concept is very important.
In Italy and most of EU this kind of experiences would be impossible. Regulation and hierarchy would kill It in the cradle. Following your advice, I have been part of a community garden (great idea on paper and many beautiful people involved). But it was 50% politics (or relation with institutions) and 50% actual useful work. And those negative forces turn the experience in another wheel of the superorganism...
thinking about local/ bioregional community resilience and the elements necessary to unite people to work together multi-generationally. Ive been talking with my mentors in this region who are the original back-to-the-land movement of the 1970's. Well at least the ones who didnt sell out to silicon valley. Dave would be great to interview. He is in his 80's and help found the Ozarks Area Community Congress going into its 46th year the longest standing community congress of its kind and has worked for the past 40+ years in the regenerative re-forestry practice on 3600 of pristine Ozark acreage with the Bioneers. As well as my own experience as a part of this community. I have never seen a more inclusive open hearted and selfless group of people ever. We are always thinking of novel ways to serve the community and each others needs. Refreshingly non narcissistic. It really is something special and really foreign to the individuality mindset ingrained in the atomized modern existence.
Was an interesting discussion on building a pro-social community with Christian Sawyer. So in that context Nate it would seem a good time to invited your associate/friend Simon Michaux back onto TGS. If you haven’t been in regular contact with Simon, he’s recently had a report published (now peer reviewed) GTK - Geological Survey of Finland “2024 Estimation of the quantity of metals to phase out fossil fuels in a full system replacement, compared to mineral resources”. I believe he’s turning his mining and engineering expertise towards developing sustainable technology and methods to support his involvement in expanding the Venus Project, whilst promoting his Purple Project, at the heart of which will require social interaction skills to maintain social cohesion towards achieving ideological goals; just a suggestion 🤔
Again thank you Nate this was highly encouraging, maybe once our permaculture system is and more visible others might consider the same. Still I might start building guilds at our church to get this going using plant I have that I can divide and plant there, I wonder if I do if other might get interested. I'm in a extremely poor area, so sharing plants is likely the way this can come about. Of course this kind of sharing and community building is likely cheaper to erect except for the one initiating this. I let you all know how this works if we still have internet in a few years.
Interesting to hear and we can relate wirh the community building via UOCEAN/UEARTH nonprofit organisation. We are organising a Global impact concept #OceanAidGlobal Much like Band Aid concert in 1985 that reached 2 billion people without internet. With the technology and AI i believe we can reach over 5 billion and push that social tipping point to systemic change. Literally overnight we can help strengthen communities and help build waste management infrastructure across borders. Plastic pollution sewage and Carcinogenic toxic chemicals taos have to be turned off to give our Ocean a chance to recover. With PFAS killing Phytoplankton and our ecosystem that gives us every second breath we take. Music unites humanity And is a Global language. With artists that donate every dollar earned and returned the nature. NATURE CAN BE OUR SAVIOUR IF WE CHANGE OUR BEHAVIOUR. This planet is our life support system and not a natural resource. Thank you Nate for simplification. The key to keep it simple is by setting example. Some great take aways from Christian Sawyer🙏
"So it was that, after the Deluge, the Fallout, the plagues, the madness, the confusion of tongues, the rage, there began the bloodletting of the Simplification, when remnants of mankind had torn other remnants limb from limb, killing rulers, scientists, leaders, technicians, and whatever persons the leaders of the maddened mobs said deserved death for having helped to make the Earth what it had become." ~ A Canticle for Leibowitz by Walter M. Miller, Jr. (1959)
How to get people to lock into an episode: Have a ladybug run around on your headset. It's like a little where's waldo every time it pans back to Nate.
FYI, when I clicked on the Slack link, it said, "This link is no longer active. To join this workspace, you’ll need to ask the person who originally invited you for a new link." Developing an intentional community in Michigan, Spring/Summer/Fall. Heading to Arizona shortly, to winter in our Airstream shortly. Please put us in touch with Christian Sawyer!
Bisbee is a wonderfully weird town. Southeast Arizona in general is beautiful. For some reason though, most people live in armpits like Phoenix and Tucson (where I grew up).
Great conversation.. was it just me or did Christian's "Sabotage" style Cochese moustache echo nicely with the fearless avenging Apache leader's county namesake where Christian resides?
I love Nate and his show, but he comes off a little posh sometimes. "What is your real job?" is not the way to ask that..... for example. And "how do you pay each other?" It's work-trade, Nate, that was already explained at the begining. And "where does your funding come from?" Seriously? Funding? Like a Harvard research grant? Come on, man. You figured out that this was a "working class" demographic on your own; kudos on that bit. But seriously thank you for this guest. Please have more like him.
@waynebollman - sorry it came across that way - I can understand your reaction - but this was an opportunity for him to explain an aspect of his situation that I learned from him off camera. The economic aspect of future circumstances/lifestyles is - and will increasingly be central theme of this channel and I wanted him to explain his current situation more -perhaps he'll do that if he comes back.
@@thegreatsimplification I undertstand. And I adore your tenacious reach for depth and comprehesiveness (that's what keeps me coming back.) We are intellectual kin. But I found myself wanting to bust into your studio and apologize to him on your behalf. Lol. Anyway..... much respect to you, Nate. I very much appreciate your work and contribution to these topics.
As interesting as all the big thinkers and organizations are at the end of the day it's people and groups like this that will add up to the biggest change. They are everywhere, the more you look the more you see. Facilitateing community action and reciprocity could so easily be the roll of select boards and municipal governments around the country. The whole town could be threre with food and music. Most board meetings feel like a cross between a DMV and a funeral home.
i like the idea of community formation, which is gated like KYC for members. i am interested in incentive design and permissionless communities e.g if goal is to help low income families, how do you ensure that happens?
Yep theres big Picture deep understanding thats needed for sure, but then theres applying to where are now, civil'lisation is not built on stuff-or even energy as such, it built from humans deciding how to interact with others
I’d love to hear others thoughts on a potential tool for fostering the mindset shifts needed for systemic change: psychedelics. Do you think their ability to deepen empathy and challenge entrenched systems could play a role in addressing the climate crisis, or are there better paths to the same goal?
@thegreatsimplification incredible, thank you Nate. My own experiences with psychedelics-LSD, psilocybin, and DMT-have been profoundly perspective-shifting, fostering a deep sense of interconnectedness and a questioning of the systems we live within. It’s clear to me how they can help individuals reconnect with the planet and challenge the destructive patterns we’ve normalised.
So he mentioned "anti" social people drop often out. Personally, I believe this is a normal misdiagnosis of most people labeled "anti" social. I am very NONsocial, I am not ANTIisocial. Almost ever NONsocial person I've known is NOT antisocial. Words matter, especially when the legal system gets involved. Be careful what you say and how you say it. Influential bad actors are building their cases against the legally naive.
But one thing! Regenerative animal agriculture is very big scam, need much more land! This is the second podcast i had listening how they greenwashing this tipe of killing animals! Allan Savory is big liar about many things! Regenerative plant farming is one great way for more Sustainable and efficient way to feed people! Nicholas Carter it's the guy who can explain everything this very good!
Re: 15:00 Nate's term pro-social prepping. For those interested, check out Pierre Bourdieu's work with the Kabyle in Algeria. Specifically his idea of symbolic capital. From the English language Wikipedia page on Symbolic Capital: "The concept of symbolic capital is grounded in the theory of conspicuous consumption, first introduced and expounded in late-19th century works by Thorstein Veblen and Marcel Mauss. . . . The explicit concept of symbolic capital was coined by Bourdieu, . . . symbolic capital is an extension of Max Weber's analysis of status. Bourdieu argues that symbolic capital gains value at the cross-section of class and status, where one must not only possess but be able to appropriate objects with a perceived or concrete sense of value." The French language version of Wikipedia's Capital symbolique expresses it a little better: "Le capital symbolique désigne toute forme de capital (religieux, culturel, artistique, associatif, etc. ) ayant une reconnaissance particulière au sein de la société. C'est un concept que l'on doit au sociologue Pierre Bourdieu." This can be translated via Google as: "Symbolic capital refers to any form of capital (religious, cultural, artistic, associative, etc.) having particular recognition within society. It is a concept that we owe to the sociologist Pierre Bourdieu." I first got onto Bourdieu in grad school wherein he mentions that one can store capital symbolically and later transpose this into real capital. This is a great insight. My partner's daughter did her master's thesis on how Bourdieu's ideas explain the status of women in Kabyle society. Kabyle women have a unique position that is - in many ways - much more viable and "cherished" than in other societies. This is also a case where the tribal supercedes the statist position while existing within the state structure. (Think on that one for a moment!) What exactly IS prepping anyways? Storing up capital for troubled times ahead. Can you do pro-social prepping? Of course! The informal organization that Christian is part of is doing exactly that. Further development could benefit from the Symbolic Capital concept.
Great conversation guys! Christian has great wisdom and insight and including him as a member of the community here at TGS was refreshing in marry enjoyable.
Thanks Nate. So very refreshing to listen to a grounded person like Cristian. It lifted my spirit and painted a beautiful picture of a future where sharing and compassion is at the centre of our social construct.
I am looking forward to enjoying such a future with all of you.
Stay sane all.
Smiling. Last 20mins like opening the ark of the covenant and watching truth fly out. Thanks Nate and Christian.
This was brilliant Nate. After your frankly last week regarding the man who approached you to tell you that you'd ruined his life, my lasting thought was that you were missing a chunk of information and wisdom from ordinary people who don't specialise in anything but simply live through the current period, and have thoughts, feelings and actions with regard to TGS.
What a wonderful guest, full of humility and grace.
This is the most "refreshing" conversation I have heard in a l-o-o-o-ng time! From Christian Sawyer to Daniel Schmactenberger, your guests are always thought-provoking and often inspirational.
As corny as it may seem, "Mighty oaks from little acorns grow" is the refrain that sometimes comes to mind after watching a TGS podcast. This has certainly been one of them. Thank you.
Great guest. Very helpful to generate ideas, see what others are doing...
I am searching for ways to do this within cities and suburbs. My sense is that we will all have to form small communities/villages in the place we are. I would love to be able to work with people in my neighbourhood to prepare for the next few decades.
You might find some inspiration from the Transition Town movement. There is a transition town handbook.
And a great book called Retrosuburbia by David Holmgren
@@alastairmackenzie639 Yes! I just ordered my copy.
And I recognise reading 'Lifehouse' by Adam Greenfield, new book this year
I've been building earthen homes since the last year in Brittany, in a similar context, volunteers becoming friends, setting up a festival and helping each of us build our homes. There's a touch of magical madness to it, it's wonderful.
It's called Love Shacks, they look like hobbit homes.
Christian’s magic wand waving bringing effective care to those suffering from mental illness really touched me. May it be so!!!
Thank you for interviewing local people with local answers! It’s encouraging in this dark time to know the “homesteader” movement is spreading.
Absolutely nails it! Thanks
Nate you are a fabulous interviewer. Your kindness and curiosity come through clearly. Keep up the work digging into solutions. This is the way forward. Thank you. Also Christian, keep it going as you have, fun pace not race pace.
It is awesome that this is happening. The scale is workable now. How do you organize millions and millions or even billions to work together like this on a consistent and regular basis without violent conflict. We are great in responding to immediate crisis and we are pretty good at working in small groups of up to about 150 people. We have incredible difficulty coordinating at scale without falling into the trap of destructive tribal rivalry. This, for me, is the fundamental hurdle we have to leap. Otherwise our tendency to judge our own situation only in comparison to our neighbour will remain an Achilles heal.
Nate, I have been following TGS for some months. Thankyou for these insights. I was involved in a local work bee group for a dozen years or so about 15 years ago, here near Esko MN. A friend of mine who was a Finnish bachelor farmer did most of the organizing. He would find out about someone who needed a barn roof or hay harvested or manure spread or potatoes planted, etc., and would call around for folks to help. It usually involved work and lunch for most of a day. When he aged out of physical ability for this work the group faded away. I had forgotten how much satisfaction I got out of learning, socializing and helping I got from this belonging until this show. Thank you for reminding me of the joy of mutual aide. Kelly Smith
Christian made a great point about mental health.
It is probably the greatest human problem and profoundly underrated by "civilization".
Even the first man to land on the Moon to say "contact light", Buzz Aldrin, suffered from severe depression after he got back, was hospitalized in a mental institution multiple times, yet so few people are aware of it, because mental therapy is stigmatized. His book, "Magnificent Desolation" is a great read.
The other challenge is coping with the collapse of the Abrahamic myths, perhaps the cheapest form of group "psychotherapy" provided every Sunday.
Awesome conversation with Christian Sawyer! Such wisdom and insight so dependent on doing useful stuff, both internally and externally!
And we are celebrating here in Montana with the State Supreeme Court upholding the lower court decision in favor of Held v Montana where 16 young people sued the state for violating their constitutional right to a clean and healthful environment! A big deal here!
Excellent conversation! So much wisdom packed into one hour podcast. Thank you for offering Christian the opportunity to speak with you. This conversation brings down to earth in a positive meaningful way the importance of 'social capital' and the power each one of us has to make a profound difference. Oh, and loved the story of the juvenile Raven that came knocking at his door and as much as he made a mess of Christian's house, Christian totally embraced the opportunity to hang out with a Raven for the afternoon. Thank you Nate and Christian!
These kind of work party construction/landscape projects have been part of permaculture for 40 years. See Geof Lawton or the book Integrated Forest Gardening. Geof’s movie Urban Permaculture demonstrates this wonderful community action. Thanks for hosting the solutions.
I wanted to comment something like this. I'm glad I didn't because you put it better than I could have. Appreciate y'all
I was going to say the same. I know of a couple of groups doing basically the same thing in Australia.
Key words,"We have gotten no money for these projects." THere is a culture in this country built on this understanding. Glad you are making contact with it, Nate.
Thanks for this conversation, great to hear from the grass roots
On any other podcast the unintentional guests would have been an annoyance. Or edited out. But fit perfectly in this show. Talking about the fly and the ladybug. Christian is an inspiration. Wonderful articulate young man. With an infectious message. Great way to spend an hour of my day. Thanks Nate.
What a spectacularly meaningful, important and beautiful episode. Much gratitude to you both for creating this. So positive and inspiring. The wisdom and practicality of this discussion is absolutely a motivator for me to start the process of becoming more active and engaging with others who share the same or similar values🙏🌎Just beautiful. Thank you
Thank you for putting on one of your listeners. Credit to you, and in this particular interview, most of the credit to his articulate discourse. Well done to you both.
This conversation is much appreciated! These are the resources I am after.
❤ Social Permaculture Revolution!
So happy Christian took the time to talk, it is nerve racking to be doing such work, while finding the words to express such work on a single moments notice, the compression is insane to cover all the bases in a podcast about the self.
Notice when he talks, there are very few academic references of a Socratic person immersed in the artistic framework of being.
There is less time of books, when the land is calling.
What of an emergency or emergent event, has no pieces of proof, papers, degrees, badges or political photo op, we live in surplus, with very few who can use their hands to help, every excuse is a stage learning in an academy with few tools of wear by human skills.
The apprenticeship has been replaced by the bureaucrat of excess.
Art is in every subject, every subject is of a science which can not be explained without art.
These two subjects are not in school as they are critical of repetition in the want of experiment, the want is not a need, so we don’t know what’s in our local water.
Amazing insight from Christian
What a fabulous conversation! Pragmatic, useful and deeply inspiring. Thank you. 💕
Thanks Nate and Christian, I found this conversation inspiring, with lots of wisdom.
Thanks! Great conversation.
We're in the central New Mexico doing similar things. Agroecology, natural building, and community building. I'll reach out to Christian. Nate, I hope you will continue to add voices like this to the show.
We keep a small and very biologically diverse pond for the ducks so they always have fresh water. It's occasionally drained to the orchard and market garden providing excellent soil amendment. The minnows raised in it are used on crops (like corn) and as chicken feed. The mental heath benefits of watching it all happen are real. Skip the SSRIs and take 15 minutes of duckling antics.
I love my ducks. They are messy as hell and a bit high maintenance in below zero Minnesota winter - but I agree - they are worth it. Btw - the ducks LOVE minnows- I had no idea - its like crack cocaine (but I don't do it anymore because I feel bad for the minnows). Just sayin. Good luck w your projects and work!
@@thegreatsimplification Thank you! We do have a couple ways to make a quick passing for the minnows. I feel it too, but have to view it in a food web/nutrient pump perspective. A great thing you all are doing with this podcast.
16:45 this! Our local permaculture group exactly, there's an underlying thread that people know or think about this stuff, but we focus on the task or activity at hand. Running the workshop, weeding the garden beds, etc. It seems people acknowledge the issues and the goal of the group is to work in a positive adaptation space for the local region.
Great interview! Glad to know about such cool activities happening near me in Arizona!
Hey, Uberto from Florence, Italy here. So inspired by Christian and his community building model. Will definitely look into discovering if it’s possible to do it over here, Tuscany and Umbria (Assisi) areas. Greetings and love your podcast! Thank you! 🙏🏽
thanks
This is very uplifting. It reminds me of my own work as a social worker and volunteer in AmeriCorps. I hope you don't delete this.
We are so blessed to live in the "4 corners". We are blessed with millennia of wisdom. I would like to thank the Hopi, Navajo, Zuni, Apache, and Utes. You have been decimated you have been exterminated. You are still here and you are still such kind and gracious people. I feel so blessed for these people to be my neighbors. I wish I had more time left to spend with them. There is an honest understanding find a shared sorrow that says I know sweetie there is something that looks reality in the face for what it is and still manages to rise above. I live near Zuni Pueblo and those people impress me. I've never met more kind people in my life. I will never leave and I will continue to do my part for this community. What a fantastic group of human beings I am privileged to call my neighbor! I love you all and if you need my hands I will be there. Thank you to all of the people of the four corners for making this such a special and wonderful place on the planet despite all of the b******* that's been thrown at you.
Thank you
Very inspiring! As an artist in this exciting time of speed, I have similar sentiments about our world as Christian. Thank you both for showing up by example.
Nate, Jackson County Oregon has a group of landowners who organize rotating work parties. Many of the landowners have participated in the Land Steward program established by the Oregon State University Cooperative Extension.
What he says about therapy is the truth as well. My experience with therapy is that you need to find a therapist that loves you. We all need that. That person is out there. Weather that's an old medicine man or a young girl with blue hair. Find them. Let them help you. It is a beautiful thing
Happy Ducks here 30 now runners free rangers + goats, Great show today Thank You.
27:00 'ducks - muddy slurry' absolutely.
Framing, language, and narratives are critical pieces to consider when holding the space between the worlds of extraction & regeneration. What is considered as a "real" job in one is not defined as such in the other. I love the opportunity the space between offers all of us. This wise guest is awesome!
I echo all the above comments.
As an architect and landscape architect I am disheartened at the constant refrain "It takes a village" without finishing the sentence. Thank you Hillary Clinton.
I am working on a book entitled "What it takes to build a village."
You and many of your guests provide the pieces of a solution.
This is how homesteading, and farm families have functioned: in cooperation. Remember 4-H? I pledge my head to clearer thinking, my heart to greater loyalty, my hands to larger service, and my health to better living, for my club, my community, my country and my world. Many of us were raised like this.
i notice a lot of people on climate/energy podcasts are speaking often about working locally on the things near where we live. this is generally very good advice. I hope people are getting the message. get to know your neighbors. mutual aid is in our futures.
Great topic. Looking forward to it. I hope you address how to convert skeptics. One tends to be labeled a doomer when you try to spread the message, which is why I'm looking forward to your primer. Something I've been wanting to do myself.
I hear you....too many things but we are working on it. thank you
We're just starting something similar in Ireland more built around growing and food security. Work parties are a tradition here that we call 'meithals'. I cant believe the similarities though. Great to find this! I'll share in our group ❤
Thank you!
At 10:00, Christian talks about how the people involved were filtered through his and Ash's network connections. This is the Gatekeeper concept in action. At 13:00, he again mentions Ash as the "mover and shaker." For people wanting to put a similar program into action, the Gatekeeper concept is very important.
In Italy and most of EU this kind of experiences would be impossible. Regulation and hierarchy would kill It in the cradle. Following your advice, I have been part of a community garden (great idea on paper and many beautiful people involved). But it was 50% politics (or relation with institutions) and 50% actual useful work. And those negative forces turn the experience in another wheel of the superorganism...
thinking about local/ bioregional community resilience and the elements necessary to unite people to work together multi-generationally. Ive been talking with my mentors in this region who are the original back-to-the-land movement of the 1970's. Well at least the ones who didnt sell out to silicon valley. Dave would be great to interview. He is in his 80's and help found the Ozarks Area Community Congress going into its 46th year the longest standing community congress of its kind and has worked for the past 40+ years in the regenerative re-forestry practice on 3600 of pristine Ozark acreage with the Bioneers. As well as my own experience as a part of this community. I have never seen a more inclusive open hearted and selfless group of people ever. We are always thinking of novel ways to serve the community and each others needs. Refreshingly non narcissistic. It really is something special and really foreign to the individuality mindset ingrained in the atomized modern existence.
Love… love the unintentional workgroup community ideology. It hopefully leaves behind so much baggage we carry
Fucking awesome conversation! 🎯 Please have Christian back on.
Good ground-level conversation :D
Was an interesting discussion on building a pro-social community with Christian Sawyer. So in that context Nate it would seem a good time to invited your associate/friend Simon Michaux back onto TGS. If you haven’t been in regular contact with Simon, he’s recently had a report published (now peer reviewed) GTK - Geological Survey of Finland “2024 Estimation of the quantity of metals to phase out fossil fuels in a full system replacement, compared to mineral resources”. I believe he’s turning his mining and engineering expertise towards developing sustainable technology and methods to support his involvement in expanding the Venus Project, whilst promoting his Purple Project, at the heart of which will require social interaction skills to maintain social cohesion towards achieving ideological goals; just a suggestion 🤔
Again thank you Nate this was highly encouraging, maybe once our permaculture system is and more visible others might consider the same. Still I might start building guilds at our church to get this going using plant I have that I can divide and plant there, I wonder if I do if other might get interested.
I'm in a extremely poor area, so sharing plants is likely the way this can come about. Of course this kind of sharing and community building is likely cheaper to erect except for the one initiating this. I let you all know how this works if we still have internet in a few years.
I hope Christian's future partner sees this video, and thinks, "I gotta meet this guy."
I love opt out building. It should be an American constitutional right
Really solid interview, Nate. Love the idea of unintentional community. Anyone in Seattle area here in the comments section?
Interesting to hear and we can relate wirh the community building via UOCEAN/UEARTH nonprofit organisation. We are organising a Global impact concept #OceanAidGlobal Much like Band Aid concert in 1985 that reached 2 billion people without internet. With the technology and AI i believe we can reach over 5 billion and push that social tipping point to systemic change. Literally overnight we can help strengthen communities and help build waste management infrastructure across borders. Plastic pollution sewage and Carcinogenic toxic chemicals taos have to be turned off to give our Ocean a chance to recover. With PFAS killing Phytoplankton and our ecosystem that gives us every second breath we take. Music unites humanity And is a Global language. With artists that donate every dollar earned and returned the nature. NATURE CAN BE OUR SAVIOUR IF WE CHANGE OUR BEHAVIOUR. This planet is our life support system and not a natural resource. Thank you Nate for simplification. The key to keep it simple is by setting example.
Some great take aways from Christian Sawyer🙏
"So it was that, after the Deluge, the Fallout, the plagues, the madness, the confusion of tongues, the rage, there began the bloodletting of the Simplification, when remnants of mankind had torn other remnants limb from limb, killing rulers, scientists, leaders, technicians, and whatever persons the leaders of the maddened mobs said deserved death for having helped to make the Earth what it had become."
~ A Canticle for Leibowitz by Walter M. Miller, Jr. (1959)
Rationalizing the ecotone. Fine , if it serves the ultimate goal of retreating from 'appetite'.
How to get people to lock into an episode: Have a ladybug run around on your headset. It's like a little where's waldo every time it pans back to Nate.
FYI, when I clicked on the Slack link, it said, "This link is no longer active. To join this workspace, you’ll need to ask the person who originally invited you for a new link."
Developing an intentional community in Michigan, Spring/Summer/Fall. Heading to Arizona shortly, to winter in our Airstream shortly. Please put us in touch with Christian Sawyer!
Bro is not going to be single for long...!
Bisbee is a wonderfully weird town. Southeast Arizona in general is beautiful. For some reason though, most people live in armpits like Phoenix and Tucson (where I grew up).
Great conversation.. was it just me or did Christian's "Sabotage" style Cochese moustache echo nicely with the fearless avenging Apache leader's county namesake where Christian resides?
Maybe an 'intentional life', so the people you resonate with make an intentional community happen.
It IS his real life, so he may eschew the 'real job' construct. He is living a portfolio life.
Seek now the condition that's coming anyway.
I wonder if the 'off-grid' community collides with the local professional/traditional farmers.
Louisville, Kentucky has something like this
I love Nate and his show, but he comes off a little posh sometimes. "What is your real job?" is not the way to ask that..... for example. And "how do you pay each other?" It's work-trade, Nate, that was already explained at the begining. And "where does your funding come from?" Seriously? Funding? Like a Harvard research grant? Come on, man. You figured out that this was a "working class" demographic on your own; kudos on that bit.
But seriously thank you for this guest. Please have more like him.
@waynebollman - sorry it came across that way - I can understand your reaction - but this was an opportunity for him to explain an aspect of his situation that I learned from him off camera. The economic aspect of future circumstances/lifestyles is - and will increasingly be central theme of this channel and I wanted him to explain his current situation more -perhaps he'll do that if he comes back.
@@thegreatsimplification I undertstand. And I adore your tenacious reach for depth and comprehesiveness (that's what keeps me coming back.) We are intellectual kin. But I found myself wanting to bust into your studio and apologize to him on your behalf. Lol. Anyway..... much respect to you, Nate. I very much appreciate your work and contribution to these topics.
As interesting as all the big thinkers and organizations are at the end of the day it's people and groups like this that will add up to the biggest change. They are everywhere, the more you look the more you see.
Facilitateing community action and reciprocity could so easily be the roll of select boards and municipal governments around the country. The whole town could be threre with food and music. Most board meetings feel like a cross between a DMV and a funeral home.
The social ecotone is outside the instituion.
Maybe the default is the 'prosocial' and it is the focus on monetary drivers that sends the behavioral stack down the trail of 'anti-social'.
One assumption that is pervasive in these conversations is that people in suburbs don't have relationships with their neighbors.
Are you aware of Transition Network? Started by Rob Hopkins
Also Ecolise in Europe...
i like the idea of community formation, which is gated like KYC for members. i am interested in incentive design and permissionless communities e.g if goal is to help low income families, how do you ensure that happens?
Sawyer’s Discord link appears to be expired
Yep theres big Picture deep understanding thats needed for sure, but then theres applying to where are now, civil'lisation is not built on stuff-or even energy as such, it built from humans deciding how to interact with others
Yes! Thank you for saying this.
I’d love to hear others thoughts on a potential tool for fostering the mindset shifts needed for systemic change: psychedelics.
Do you think their ability to deepen empathy and challenge entrenched systems could play a role in addressing the climate crisis, or are there better paths to the same goal?
ask and you shall receive (well in this case). Coming in 2025 (at least 2 episodes on this, mainly to satisfy my own curiousity on the subject 😁)
@thegreatsimplification incredible, thank you Nate. My own experiences with psychedelics-LSD, psilocybin, and DMT-have been profoundly perspective-shifting, fostering a deep sense of interconnectedness and a questioning of the systems we live within. It’s clear to me how they can help individuals reconnect with the planet and challenge the destructive patterns we’ve normalised.
Muscovy ducks do not have a water habitat requirement.
I don't find the link to the slack group, shouldn't it be in the description of the video?
Thanks for pointing this out - we've added it to the description now
@@thegreatsimplification it says the link is no longer active, could you as Christian how to reach him? Cheers
@ should be fixed now
So he mentioned "anti" social people drop often out.
Personally, I believe this is a normal misdiagnosis of most people labeled "anti" social.
I am very NONsocial, I am not ANTIisocial.
Almost ever NONsocial person I've known is NOT antisocial.
Words matter, especially when the legal system gets involved.
Be careful what you say and how you say it.
Influential bad actors are building their cases against the legally naive.
I hope he hangs out with Doug Stanhope.
P.S. He seems like a really cool, friendly and interesting guy. Good on you, mate.
But one thing! Regenerative animal agriculture is very big scam, need much more land! This is the second podcast i had listening how they greenwashing this tipe of killing animals! Allan Savory is big liar about many things! Regenerative plant farming is one great way for more Sustainable and efficient way to feed people! Nicholas Carter it's the guy who can explain everything this very good!
Re: 15:00 Nate's term pro-social prepping. For those interested, check out Pierre Bourdieu's work with the Kabyle in Algeria. Specifically his idea of symbolic capital. From the English language Wikipedia page on Symbolic Capital: "The concept of symbolic capital is grounded in the theory of conspicuous consumption, first introduced and expounded in late-19th century works by Thorstein Veblen and Marcel Mauss. . . . The explicit concept of symbolic capital was coined by Bourdieu, . . . symbolic capital is an extension of Max Weber's analysis of status. Bourdieu argues that symbolic capital gains value at the cross-section of class and status, where one must not only possess but be able to appropriate objects with a perceived or concrete sense of value."
The French language version of Wikipedia's Capital symbolique expresses it a little better: "Le capital symbolique désigne toute forme de capital (religieux, culturel, artistique, associatif, etc. ) ayant une reconnaissance particulière au sein de la société. C'est un concept que l'on doit au sociologue Pierre Bourdieu." This can be translated via Google as: "Symbolic capital refers to any form of capital (religious, cultural, artistic, associative, etc.) having particular recognition within society. It is a concept that we owe to the sociologist Pierre Bourdieu." I first got onto Bourdieu in grad school wherein he mentions that one can store capital symbolically and later transpose this into real capital. This is a great insight. My partner's daughter did her master's thesis on how Bourdieu's ideas explain the status of women in Kabyle society. Kabyle women have a unique position that is - in many ways - much more viable and "cherished" than in other societies. This is also a case where the tribal supercedes the statist position while existing within the state structure. (Think on that one for a moment!)
What exactly IS prepping anyways? Storing up capital for troubled times ahead. Can you do pro-social prepping? Of course! The informal organization that Christian is part of is doing exactly that. Further development could benefit from the Symbolic Capital concept.
Great conversation guys! Christian has great wisdom and insight and including him as a member of the community here at TGS was refreshing in marry enjoyable.
Christian’s magic wand waving bringing effective care to those suffering from mental illness really touched me. May it be so!!!