Overseeding Brassicas - Blends are Better | Dream Farm w/ Bill Winke
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- Now is the time to overseed your food plots with brassicas. This simple step can really add a lot of forage to your plots and give the deer a lot more food during the coming fall and winter. I walk you through the basics, why, where, when and how to decide on a seeding rate.
More about Whitetail Institute brassica blends: whitetailinsti...
For more videos from me on the topic of land management see the "Deer Dirt" series on the HuntStand channel: / @huntstand
Thanks Bill for the great videos. There are many different approaches to food plotting. What you do a great job of is presenting options and explaining the “why” behind what you’re doing. You always make me think and I truly appreciate that…… Mike
Thanks Mike. Yes, I am working out a system that makes sense for the deer density we have here and the way I like to hunt. Each person needs to play the tradoffs in a way that makes sense for their situation. I will do an update on the entire farm and show how all the pieces fit together in the next few weeks. I appreciate the comment.
When does he put the Urea on the Brassica
thanks, Bill for these great summertime updates!! Always learn something listening to you!!
Thanks for the comment and the support. Have a great day.
I like that you have a variety. I’m further south so I’ve got my spot ready but won’t plant till middle of next month or when good rain hits in the middle of month. The farm is looking great.
Yes, timing is based on frost dates. This year the farm is shaping up pretty well. Some of the plots are really good. I will be shocked if the deer can eat it all this year, but time will tell. We had a lot of good rains, that makes a huge difference. Good luck.
Bill...great information, interesting thoughts on the blends which we have been doing for years with success and truly believe in. Thanks for sharing. Bob
Thanks for the comment. Have a great day.
I’m doing the same here in IL. Im using strictly Domain seed.
I’m getting pickier with my seed (9 food plots) and steering clear of the treated stuff.
Seems like it doesn’t do much to help the plants, but cost us consumers more, and allow them to put less seed in the bag.
I enjoy following along. I will do so much more in retirement in a couple years..
Sounds like a great plan. Good luck and thanks for the comment.
I’ve had great success with domain seed! Their clover blends and then I mixed their “illicit” radish with their “smack down” turnips. Works great! And I just broadcasted
I will be adding blends and overseeding to my plots as well. Broadcast beans from mid July were already 3-4" tall this weekend. Adding clover, raddish, and peas to the mix.
Sounds like a great plan. Good luck Alex.
Great info bill. I planted beets and greens last year was a great plot, this year i did the winter greens. I planted last week and haven't got rain yet:, the rain bond coated seed has saved me many of times.
I think that message is one that Whitetail Institute is missing. Most people see that seed coating is wasted space in the bag and wasted money at the checkout. WI needs to tell that story about the Rain Bond better. I should interview one of their people about that so I am better educated.
Great video Bill Talking about great timing, i planted my brassica Saturday. Got a sample of whitetail institute winter green, beets and greens and tall tine tubbers. I just mixed them all together broadcast into my soybeans that the deer have kept pick to 4" plus got ravishing radishes to finish it out. Got 3/4 in of rain yesterday!
Chris, that is a great plan. Hopefully that rain was enough to get some of the seeds pounded in an germinating. The nice thing about brassicas is that they don't need much excuse to start growing. They seem to be more prolific than just about anything else I have ever planted. Good luck.
@@bill-winke thanks we got another 2 3/4" last night, hopefully you get some timely rain on your plots too!
Will always be a fan Bill, appreciate you !
Thanks. I appreciate the comment and the support. Have a great day.
Good video Bill, thanks for all information you share....
My pleasure. Thanks for the comment. Good luck.
Great content! My favorite plots are clover! But you can’t beat a late season purple top turnip plot.
Thanks for the comment. I hope you have a great day.
Hey Bill you should watch some clips from Northwoods Whitetail, he's super smart when it comes to these blends. Sugar beets stood out is the only reason I commented. Great content man, keep it up!
Thanks Richard. I appreciate it. I will check it out. I appreciate the comment. Have a great day.
Get the solo spreader. Huge improvement.
I will check it out. Thanks.
Goodness boys and gals deer season is right around the corner, I got butterflies in my stomach thinking about it when I seen this video pop up. Looking forward to Bills hit list!
Thanks Logan. I will start to put that together in September. I don't do as much in July and August with the trail cameras as some do. I wait until the bucks are in their fall ranges before I start getting serious. Have a great day.
Everything is looking great & green. Should show some dividends this fall
Thank Bill
A lot of people are sending me photos of bucks that made huge jumps this year. I think it is a combination of last winter's giant acorn crop and the way everything is growing this year. The deer have everything they could possibly want this year. Will be interesting to see how much some of these bucks we have been hunting have changed. I will put the cameras out in early September and we will know shortly after that. Have a great day.
Just call you Butter, because your on a roll! Man the pressure is on now, another perfectly timed topic, don't know if you found the content or topic genie but keep it up. We also use Whitetail Institute seed, can't say good things about, really really works well and we're deep south.
Mostly, I just do videos about the stuff I am doing right now (or will be doing very soon) so they all tend to be at least reasonably timely. I appreciate the comment and wish you the best of luck there in the south. Have a great day.
@@bill-winke Also, there was one plot where you were trying a different seeding method of sorts and were not sure if it would work. would you follow up and let us know if that plot took using that type of application.
Thank You
looking forward to a video on the results. I did the same thing today....but got a few more acres to go!
The broadcasting will depend on the rains. I drilled about three acres of Winter-Greens it came up within a few days. They are two inches tall in spots already while the broadcast seeds still haven't germinated. I will update on all of it soon, but whenever possible, drilling is definitely the way to go. Way better, but it does hammer the existing crop in the plot. I have learned, surprisingly, that beans can take a decent bit of "drilling into" and still keep going. Obviously, that would not work with sorghum! Have a great day.
My brassica planting this year was done into existing clover. I mowed strips, then sprayed roundup and liberty to nuke the strips, then broadcast brassica blend into the strips. I left enough room in between strips so I can drive and not run over the new brassicas. In 2-3 weeks I plan to mow the rest of the clover and spray the entire thing with clethodim and crop oil, which should set back the grasses so the brassicas and remaining clover can take off for the fall. I have not heard of anyone doing this, but it seems like a good strategy.
That is a good plan assuming the clover is ready to be rotated out. I don't think I would do that with a really nice stand of clover, but it does make sense on one level. Clover naturally produces a good bit of nitrogen in the soil so following it up with brassicas is a good plan because brassicas like nitrogen. Have a great day.
If you didn't go on the heavy end of chemical rate, the clover will come back assuming it is established. I have used this approach a few times. The brassicas use up the nitrogen the clover puts into the soil, which makes it less likely you'll have weed issues the next year. The clover will be back to a clean field of clover the next spring. There was a video I saw on it. I think the title was evergreen rotation or something like that. It has produced good results for me. I have one clover field that is a few years old and each spring it is nearly weed free again. Before I broadcast brassicas into the field I would have issues starting the next year. It makes sense the clover puts nitrogen into the soil and that is what the weeds are after.
@@wolfpack4128 That is a great approach. I have tried the glyphosate on the clover once, but it always makes me nervous. I need to experiment more with that method. Thanks for the comments.
@@wolfpack4128completely agree. 1 quart/acre gly won’t kill established clover
I like over seeding to. I usually over seed wheat,rye or oats into my brassicas. The brassicas i plant from my local seed store will actually stay leafy and green down to 10 degrees
Sounds like a good plan. I think they all do that. They seem to bounce back from a frost and keep growing better than anything else I have planted. I also see them eating the brassicas even after the tops have turned brown and droop onto the ground after a really hard cold spell. Have a great day.
Tried a rescue today.. I spread purple top turnip into a stand of milo overtaken by grasses . After spreading the seed i sprayed the plot with round up. Ill keep you posted
Sounds like a good plan, but sorghum can fool you sometimes. It can fight through some grass and still produce a head and seed, but it is not going to be very productive if the sorghum plants have a yellow or yellow-green look to them. Much better to do what you did and start over if the sorghum is too far gone. Good luck.
I have tried seeding brassicas into dead thatch a couple times with no luck. I do use that method for cereal grains and it works great.
Thats all I do and never have issues. Is your thatch sprayed dead or other means of being dead? Did you drag or roll it afterwards? That seed needs to hit the ground and have the ability to get some kind of light. Mine has always been a little slower to get started, but once it breaks through, it flourishes.
It is sprayed dead but not dragged. Part of the problem may be the amount of leaves. Maybe i will try a drag this time.
@@ranbohunting yes. Leaf litter will kill the seed to soil contact. Is this a plot in the middle of the woods? Or just the edge?
One is on the edge and one in the woods. There is a giant white oak that saps the moisture in the one plot so i tend to stick with cereal grains.
Another option I should have mentioned and maybe even used, is to burn the dead stuff off before broadcasting. I have done that many times with the Poor Man's Plots and it works great. I should have thought of that this time.
In a situation like that weedy area you sprayed and then seeded into, if you ever have a chance to try a flail mower to then cut those weeds after spraying and after seeding I think you’ll be amazed. The cuttings get super mulched then laid down in this very even blanket. And you can nearly scalp the ground if you want. I bought one for cleaning up my vineyard after spring pruning, not intending to use it for food plot work. It’s now a critical tool for me and food plots.
Kevin
Good point, Kevin. The bush hog lays the residue out in wind rows that pretty much eliminate much from growing under that area. I should have just burned it off. Not sure why I didn't think of that. Would have been a 30 minute job with a helper and a leaf blower. Thanks for the comment.
@@bill-winke I know a guy who likes fire and has his own leaf blower 😉
Dream Big brother 🙏
You too Edward. Thanks.
Brassica's are great, deer hit them after a frost, perfect timing.
I have been planting them every year since about 2008, roughly. They can definitely save a plot some years and add a lot of forage either way. Thanks for the comment. Have a great day.
“Over seed everything tour”😂
It is nice to be able to add filler into every plot that didn't turn out perfectly knowing that the brassicas will contribute this coming fall without detracting from was originally planted there. It seems to work really well.
If you can find a farmer to get some pre emergent chemicals for your milo that makes a lot of difference in the weeds that develop. Most of the chemicals are restricted for use. That is why I say to get with a farmer to acquire some.
I appreciate it. I will look into it. No one grows it commercially within 200 miles of here, so I would have to have some very specific chemical recommendations because neither the local farmers or the local coops will know what to apply. Thanks.
I’ve not had the best luck no tilling the seed. You could try cultipacking after seed unless the ground is hard
Agreed. I drilled the Winter-Greens into three fields and it is already two inches tall while the stuff I broadcast hasn't even germinated yet. I spread into the plots because the existing crop was pretty decent (beans or sorghum) and didn't want to drill it down. But I have learned that beans can take a surprising amount of drilling into if they aren't too tall. Either way, if we had gotten a rain or two, the broadcast seeds would be contributing (and they likely still will), but the drilled stuff is way ahead. Drilling is way better, for sure. Good luck.
Bill, it looks really green there. Better than last year for sure, but my area is once again in an extreme drought since late April. Fourth consecutive year, which is totally frustrating. I'm not even going to attempt brassicas or even a fall soil builder blend. If the pattern holds as has been for the last four years, we won't get any appreciable and consistent rain until mid November. What are your thoughts on just going with winter rye, a planting mid fall and then over-seed it around the first of November? I'm out of ideas and enthusiasm for my food plots. I feel like the best approach for me going forward is to just let my plots go back to mother nature and focus on other habitat improvements, such as enhancing bedding areas, travel corridors, and areas of regeneration. Maybe plant apple trees and other fruit trees that the local deer eat inside the food plots and just let nature take over the rest of the plots? I can easily haul buckets of water to keep the trees going. I'm just totally out of ideas as far as trying to counter the lack of rain. Too much time, energy, and money invested to keep having it all dry up and blow away.
I understand that frustration. I think the fall/winter rye option is a good one. I would try to drill it in if possible, or at least till it up and then drag the seed in so that you get the best possible germination rate with the least amount of rain. If you just broadcast the seed onto the dry ground, it will take a lot of rain to get that to germinate in any amount. Regarding long-term solutions, managing the habitat for better forage is a great way. TSI and fire likely will do that for you. Fruit trees are a good idea, but they only really help with fall food source and not the rest of the year, but a good one, either way. In time your weather pattern may straighten out and you will gain some optimism again. I has a four year run like that on the farm in Southern Iowa and I got really discouraged and then cut back on my food plot expenses as a result, especially the fertilizer. I learned not to fertilize my summer plantings until the seeds germinated and started to grow so as not to waste the fertilizer on a failed crop. Eventually, things straightened back out. Good luck.
@@bill-winkeI just think it’s pretty cool that Bill would lay out such a helpful reply to this person. I understand the drought worries! We have got rain this year finally, but weather patterns are changing greatly from 20-30 years ago.
Bill, I noticed your soybeans are pretty weed free. Do you use pre emerge? Also what do you spray once they start growing?
Levi, I didn't use a pre-emerge. It is something I need to look at. I sprayed with Roundup once in most fields, twice in the ones that deer hit hardest that didn't canopy over. Water hemp has become a problem here this year (with all the rains) and I will have to change my strategy for soybeans next year. About the only thing the local agronomists like is treatment that contains dicamba. I have used it before and it worked OK for me. I do think the residual is a likely way to go though. I need to discuss with the co-op guys before next spring. Have a great day.
I quit buying Whitetail Institute stuff since about 34% of the bag isn’t even seed! Just throwing away $$. Use the local seed shop to buy 100% seed and no fillers!
The fillers are seed coating that they have included to bond moisture to the seed for better germination. That is what they explain regarding the coating. If that is true, then it is valuable. Either way, don't buy seed based on the cost per pound, buy it based on the cost per acre and then factor in all the pros and cons. Good luck.
@@bill-winkemore than coating I don’t like sugar beets in fall blends. It has to be a spring planting or otherwise it is a total waste. They also insist that rye grass is somehow valuable in some of their blends. Total nonsense imo. It’s just a cheap way to get something green growing, nothing more. Valueless otherwise…
I tried winter greens a few years ago. I planted it side by side in three plots with a blend from my local ag store that was about half as expensive. I planted all the same day using the exact same method. I got a much higher rate of germination with the cheaper blend and the deer walked across the winter greens rarely eating them to get to the cereal rye and cheaper blend. They did eventually eat the winter greens after everything else was gone. Granted that was only one year but with the expense of the winter greens I didn’t really feel like chancing it again. Last year I planted Northwoods Whitetail sweet feast brassica blend and had the best germination I ever had. On my land deer do show a preference for cereal rye over brassicas during the firearms season in southern Michigan but when muzzle loader season rolls around they hit the brassicas hard and have them gone by mid January. I am anxious however to try Whitetail institute oats. I have heard good things about them. I truly enjoy your videos!
Yes yes. I am a farmer. The fad is to think coatings are filler. Well coatings typically cost more than the seed. They sometimes contain fungicide or insecticide for protection or enoculant to enable nitrogen fixation @@bill-winke
@@toddweston2840 their Oats Plus is legit. Lots of success with it.
Was thinking about overseeding soybeans into a corn field that has some thin spots. Do you think it would relieve browse pressure on the corn or only attract more deer to eat the corn? Any Suggestions?
I think it will be hard to get a seed that big to germinate on top of the ground. If you can create a porous seedbed and work it even a small amount into the dirt, that will be much better. Deer definitely love the new growth of soybeans so there is no doubt it will be attractive, but given the challenges of germination and how quickly they will wipe it out when a few plants do pop up, I would rather go with the brassicas due to the smaller seed (better germination) and longer period over which the deer will eat it. Good luck.
Thanks
Wonder if there's a PRE-emergent herbicide that can help take care of most of the weeds and grass in the Milo/grain sorghum? I'm not as concerned with grass as I am things like pigweed and lambs quarters.
There is. Atrazine does a pretty good job of that. I have been fighting the grass, so I guess that is what I key on.
Bill, why you not use the the ph drill to plant or overseed your brassica.
I did in the plots that didn't have as much current crop on them. I will do a video to discuss that decision. For sure, the drill did a way better job. I drilled the same day I broadcast and the drilled brassicas are about two inches tall now while the broadcast ones haven't even germinated yet. Plus, showing this method gives hope to people who don't have drills. Have a great day.
What kind of fertilizer do u use on your brassicas
Most of the time, I am just adding urea (nitrogen), but the answer is not that simple. It is best to get a soil test done to find out exactly what you need, but I am usually broadcasting brassicas into fields that have already been upgraded for soybeans or maybe sorghum. So I know the soil pH and fertility were improved for for that crop. That means all I really need to do is add more nitrogen for the brassicas. If I am planting brassicas into a new field, the soil test is definitely the way to go. Most local co-ops can help you. I have been using the Plot Perfection app from Whitetail Institute and sending soil samples to them through the mail. They automatically add the results to the app. It is pretty handy. Costs a little money to do, but you aren't going to get soil tests done for free no matter where you send them.
Is there a filler you’d recommend for drilling with it? If for example your drill can’t get the right poundage low enough ? Like an oil dry ?
I have drilled brassicas with winter/fall rye. That seed is small enough that it flows through the planter pretty well and mixes with the brassica seeds well so you don't get one seed to settle to the bottom. That works very well, actually.
I thought you used to use plant Frigid Forage?
Phil, I did but John at Frigid Forage didn't want any more publicity for his product because he wants to keep the company small (his is a one-man business) so I elected to work with Whitetail Institute on the new farm. I started using their products back in 1995 (for my first food plot ever - Imperial Whitetail Clover) so I had previous ties to that company. I like their product mix - especially the Whitetail Clover and the Winter-Greens. I am experimenting with some of the others. Have a great day.
I hear more and more that the 1st hard frost and Brassicas is a myth. You’ve hunted over them for years, so what is you take?
It depends on the plant. The dwarf Essex rape, (and probably other rape varieties too) for example is very attractive early. I have seen deer walk right through a brassica patch in September and eat only the DER. I am not sure about kale, when it is most attractive. I do notice that the deer seem to really like the tops off the turnips and radishes after a hard freeze. I am not sure why. They do eat them a little in October but not like they do in November/December/January. I don't see the deer eating the bulbs as much as I would like (either in a high or low deer density). They eat them some (less than 20% in my experience), but not much. It seems like they like the smaller bulbs and pull them out and eat them earlier but aren't as crazy about the bigger ones. Maybe they are just too hard to eat. So it seems that the deer mostly focus on the greens (the tops). I do see them hitting a good patch of brassicas (planted from a blend) throughout the entire season. That is why I think the blends are better than focusing on any one variety. Good luck.
Do u plan on doing fall plots or do u just seed the failed or thinned areas
I mostly just seed the failed and thin areas, but I did plant two plots from scratch. Both of those fields I profiled on the episode about killer setups: ua-cam.com/video/9VR7yoU8uTA/v-deo.html I drilled one (the bigger one) to Winter-Greens and it is already coming up! The other I broadcasts to Ravish Radish blend and it has not germinated yet (no rains since). I absolutely should have drilled the radish blend too. I am not sure what I was thinking. I have the drill! I guess I figured we would get rains, but they didn't come. I will update on the entire farm in a couple weeks to show how everything I tried this year is doing, from tree plantings to the food plots. Overall, it has been a really good year. Have a great day.
Thank u. I just remember you used the genisis at ur old farm and drilled fall plots of turnips. I thought u even said mixed it with rye to slow down the rate.
Thought u put fall plots in.
I have a genisis and plant a lot of fall crops. Not sure what is reasonable.
@@johnbernat5288 John, for sure, the drill is the way to go. No question about that. Whenever I am planting a fall plot (not just overseeding existing plots) I use the Genesis (now made by PH Outdoors: www.ph-outdoors.com/g-series-no-till-drill-1 That works very well. I would keep doing that. The only reason to overseed (broadcast) is so you don't tear up something that is already growing there. Good luck.
How many times can I plant brassicas in the same plot? I was too busy to plant any corn or beans this spring, not sure what else to plant .
I am not 100% sure, but I know it is not ideal to keep repeating them. Better to plant something else to break the cycle and then seed the brassicas into that. The ideal rotation if you are just going to plant brassicas without anything else is clover for three years and then brassicas for one and back to clover for three more. I use that rotation a lot in my small plots. In the bigger plots, I am just overseeding the brassicas into existing plants (beans or sorghum probably).
I’ve read no more than two years in a row due to some type of fungus or something that develops. I have all my plots divided in half and rotate every year. My cousin has planted them many years in a row in the same plot and there seems to be no I’ll effect. I finally talked him into doing a rotation just in case.
@@toddweston2840 That makes sense. I have heard it is not good to keep planting brassicas in the same plot, that explains why. Thanks for the input.
I thought sugar beets was a 180 day crop? Wouldn’t make sense to mix that with brassicas as a fall crop? Seems like another buck on a bag scam
I have had a few guys comment on this channel who plant sugar beats every year and they report that it is the greens (the tops) that the deer key on in their plots. So I guess, the timing of planting it in mid-summer will at least get you the tops if not the bulbs. Good luck.
@@bill-winke that’s interesting for sure 👍🏼
Aren’t you NOT supposed to over seed Brassica? Don’t they need room to grow? Is that what you mean by over seed or do you mean you’re seeding brassica over something you have already grown?
By "overseed" in the title of this video I am referring to seeding the brassica over other plants, not putting out too much seed. You are right, don't put out too much seed unless you are sure that some of it won't germinate as is often the case when spreading into standing grass or other plants. I do say that when spreading into open dirt or drilling that you should stick with the rate quoted on the bag. Good clarification.
Why did you ever switch from Frigid Forage?
@@georgehelzer7569 guessing more money
John at Frigid Forage didn't want more business, believe it or not. He wanted to keep FF a one man operation and that meant keeping the demand "manageable". He didn't want it to keep growing. I started my food plot planting life with Whitetail Institute Imperial Whitetail Clover back in 1995 and had a great success with that, so it was natural for me to go back to them.
@@bill-winke wow that is surprising but I guess if that’s what he wanted. Im not saying whitetail institute isn’t good stuff I just can’t stand how much they advertise. Seems like every other page in hunting magazines or tv commercials are for Whitetail institute.
Thanks for the reply
That bag is 50% kale..... 34% inert mater so 84% of that bag is junk
I lied 89% junk dwarf Essex rape is cheap seed that's worthless it's called dwarf for a reason work with Domain or a better seed company
I don't really care about inert matter. As long as what is in there grows and the deer like it and are attracted to it and it is good for them, that's all that matters to me. So, I will test and find out.
You seem to think I have no idea what I am doing. I have been planting food plots since 1995. From '95 through '99 I planted over 1,000 acres of plots on a large property I was managing. Since then several thousand more on properties all over the place. I know a little bit about this stuff. I know what grows, I know what deer eat and don't eat and what is good for them and what is just candy. I appreciate the interest, but I do have a grip on what I am doing here.
I'm trying to figure the best way to respond. You say you don't care about inert matter but inner matter is removing poundage of seed. If you need 6 lbs a acre of brassica and 40% of you seed is inert and you have 6lbs of that you only plant 4lbs of seed... now you put in 50% of seed that's not appreciable your planting 1lb of good brassicas... I'm just saying white tail Institute only cares about profit and puts a bunch of filler. Also just because you do something for a long time doesn't mean your doing it right you can do something wrong for 30 years. I never once said you didn't know what you were doing all I said is the seed your planting is junk and for someone who did it for over 30 years you should know that and also care about inert matter your channel is to teach you should be teaching the write things and also be willing to admit when your wrong
@@michaelhacker1442 I am not wrong. It says on the bag how many acres (or fractions it plants). Just look at the bag and the seed rate is right there. You aren't buying pounds of seed, you are buying acres of food plot. If you think of it that way, it really doesn't matter if there is inert matter or not. Don't pay any attention to how many pounds are in the bag, pay attention to how many acres it plants and the cost of planting those acres. I don't really care if you come to this channel or not, but if you do come, you need to conduct yourself with respect.