The value of the Sandbox is that there is no linear driven (railroad) story line. During the session, a myriad of side quests (hooks) are made available and the players may pursue which ever ones they want. As the DM you can emphasize the ones they "should" take, but the "choice" is theirs.
For sure! The GM has a major influence on events and hook options. You are designing the setting after all. But, you can use that influence to give more open ended options or much more closed ended.
Best thing that worked for me - have a high level Big Bad (that they can't harm at this time) smack around the party and humiliate them. This unites the party in hatred and vengeance-seeking; the entire campaign can have a major goal of leveling up to destroy all of the villain's armies/dungeons/countries/dimensional lairs. It takes more than sheer power to take down an evil empire, you gotta be smart and roleplay.
I love turning things back on my players. "Do you want to know what knows about XYZ? You tell me what you know." 9 times out of 10, they'll come up with something better than I ever would and I can just run with their ideas.
That last one, about telling the GM what they are going to do next is GOLD. Especially if you are gaming online, you have to get all those images/maps ready beforehand.
These are wonderful tips! Nothing feels worse than preparing for a session and then your players completely decide to bypass/avoid said encounters! My take away is to ask my players at the end of a session where they plan to engage in our next session!
Very interesting and informative advice. My experience with the sandbox style campaign as a player is that it's as much fun as we (the players) make it. This fits with the way you describe sandbox play. Not asking questions of the GM, not talking to NPCs, while wandering around waiting for something to happen is not the best approach. Cheers!
At university, I played in a psuedo-sandbox megagame that ran twice a year for over a decade. We had a lot of players, and for sure some of the success of the game was down having a constant influx of new players. But part of what kept people coming back, driving from the other side of the country in some cases, was the memorable experiences we had. And while some of them were driven by our GM team (of which I was a part), the vast majority of it was driven by the players being BOLD. Like, Leeroy Jenkins bold, damn the consequences this will happen! The world space changed and evolved so much because of those moments, especially when multiple players Leeroyed off one another. Commit, and go for it. Yes, be smart if you need to, be cautious if you need to, but don't give up and change goals. Desperate measures to achieve desperate goals are the most memorable moments of all.
I've both run and played sandbox games. I know the internet loves them but the aimlessness is a huge issue. In a lot of ways it's the opposite of the problems that a linear campaign can have where it becomes a railroad. One thing that the GM can do is throw in some things that are linear from time to time. For example, in my long running (decades!) sandbox game, I've had events happen that drag the PCs in a direction they weren't necessarily considering, say to have an ally ask them for something. This may come at an inconvenient time for them, which represents the fact that your friends often need something when you don't necessarily have a lot of room. I've had magical accidents happen, attacks on their home base, enemies start doing things that cause issues, and so on. I leave a lot of room for the direction they want to go of course (otherwise what's the point?) but having things show up can really help pull the party together. It also reinforces the fact that the world isn't just sitting there waiting for you to blunder around in it. Another thing is that the GM needs to dangle a lot more plot hooks and only develop what the players express interest in. Otherwise prep just gets out of hand. I also say: Know your table. Some players really aren't suited for a sandbox game or a pure form sandbox, just as some really chafe at a linear game.
It can be helpful in thinking that since you're not buying a pre-written adventure you are collaboratively creating that adventure through your play. Thus, your actions in the game should be building drama and lore and story so at the end of the story you can look back and say wow that was really cool
Yep! The story happens at the table and the PCs should be central figures in it. So the players need to make choices and actions to drive their story forward.
This video is also helpful for DMs to figure out if their friends would enjoy such a campaign! I don't think mine would, indecisiveness could be their group's name, "analysis paralysis" their battlecry
Yeah fair enough! Some players like being brought a long for the ride so-to-speak. But you can always ask if they'd be willing to try it, and you might be surprised!
@@mnmnrt What do you mean with families and so on? You mean threaten them to spur characters into action? Sure, their families are in danger from a bad guy but should they talk to him? Ambush him? Get their families out? Is there a magical solution? Is there an item that will solve it? Do they need more experience? etc etc
I guess I think about the setting itself as the "story", like the story of this place the characters inhabit goes on and they contribute in part to whatever the tapestry is. I don't have the fortitude to like, make a thousand things happen behind the scenes, but player actions can tip the balance, plus things sort of happen in the background (maybe not quickly unless there's a time of change). But it does take a certain attitude, and I wonder if more experienced players tend to be the ones who know what the possibilities are for RPGs and so might be more willing to do things. I guess the challenge for me would be to get people who are just starting gaming to know they can kind of do want they want, if they're OK with "angry villagers" in some cases... It's tough to do ahead of time but figuring out what your specific group finds interesting (ruin discovery, mapping, faction interaction, trade, looting dungeons, etc) and letting that be a focus for a bit while you sort of expand on options maybe allows for initial excitement to evolve into something a bit broader. Some groups may like delving for years but I'd want to allow for some other avenues in case my implementation of dungeons was slowly wearing them down or whatever.
Yeah, its good to understand your groups interests and seeing what they'd be willing to expand to beyond the original scope. It can take time to figure out, but its worth it if everyone's having fun! cheers
As GM I usually begin players at low levels in an almost complete sandbox (*see below). Then, as the players take things in their chosen direction and level up, the overarching story starts to take over. I keep generalized world-building ideas in mind (who the factions are, how they are in conflict, and stuff going on behind the scene), but I only flesh them out into an overarching story for the characters as the players head off in their own direction. I keep my ears open to what the players say and speculate about, and then pull that into the game, twisted in unexpected directions, of course. * I do try to start the game with a reason for the characters to be together and a small goal for them to accomplish so that they don't feel lost. That initial quest/mission/goal usually introduces a variety of story hooks.
Good tips. With so many videos on GM advice for sandboxes, it's nice to have one focusing on the different style of play it requires from players. Frankly, a lot of these bits of advice would translate over to more story-focused games, too. There's so much advice about how to get your players to be engaged in the game, but how often do we remind players that engaging with the game is part of their responsibility, too.
I would imagine there are a lot of ways to run a sandbox, but I don't like to depend on the player to try and figure things out. For one, a DM is going to know more about the status quo and situations than the players do. I use passive and aggressive techniques to get the ball rolling. Examples; Passive; Rumor tables some true others false. Passive; Message Boards and Town Criers. Aggressive; I let the adventure come to them, This can be done a few ways. I make wandering monster tables that have encounters that encourage diplomacy or negotiation. They have events not combat. Aggressive: Timelines, have things happen whether the PC's act or not.
Once when running Cyberpunk 2020 the players just kept sitting around the bar waiting to be handed missions. No matter how much was going on in the background environment they would just not engage with anything until it came directly to them. Managing expectations with a session 0 might have helped but those weren't a common thing back then.
Yeah, that's definitely a situation I'd just talk to the players directly about. Session 0 is a great place to do it as you mention. But checking in with the players is always a good idea too.
Thanks for explaining this so well. Being a GM in a pure Sandbox-Campaign I am lucky to have one player who really gets it and he pulled the others behind him. Now though their interests are splitting (I handle this with second PC). So I will send an transcript of your video to them as not all are fluent enough in English. Will check your other stuff out in the days to come.
Really liking your channel. Also I’m running a sandbox now and my players seem to be struggling with finding a direction I have seeded countless hooks but they prefer to flee more often than not
@@Earthmote I think our biggest difficulty is I shifted my players from 5e and emphasized the deadly nature of the game. An early character death drove the point home and now they are cautious to an extreme
Players should create characters that have goals, characters who would want to do something, try to achieve something, even if there was no adventure prepared by the GM at all. The problem of characters having no internal motivation should be solved at the character creation step, otherwise you end up with players who need to be instantly pushed by the GM to do anything, and lose momentum immediately after the GM stops being the driving force, bringing the adventure to a halt.
I agree with @robertchmielecki2580 on player goals. It'll be hard to have a successful sandbox if they aren't probing the setting at all. Even if you give them an introductory quest/location, at some point they will have to decide on their next steps afterwards. That could be difficult to do without asking questions. But if you think they are not asking enough questions, then I think you can also help guide your players along that journey. If they walk into a situation way over their heads you could have an out-of-game discussion to help teach them about the actions they could be taking. Sometimes people don't know what they don't know, and that's fine. Its okay to let them fail, and then afterwards have a post-mortem discussion (TPK not required): "Hey, you could have asked the sage about X, or gone and found mercenaries to protect Y". That way they can see the different avenues they have towards success. And just be upfront with them, if they want to know more about their options, they need to ask questions both in-game and out-of-game to understand the context. Its also okay to tell them information you think their character would know before they do something stupid. "Hey John, your character would know that those spiders have a deadly poison, one bite from their fangs has been known to kill men bigger than you outright."
@@kontrarien5721Yup, and instead they should start screaming over each other "I need to go immediately and find some clues about my missing sister!" "I have to learn what was wrong with ancestors to lift my curse!" "I need to discover some hooks to blackmail this corrupt governor I want to exact my revenge on!" Basically, during the character creation process ask your players what their characters will do if you turn up to a session with no adventure whatsoever and tell them "Nothing is happening, what do you do?". If their answer is "so we also do nothing" they should create different characters. Ones who actually have internal motivations that will put them on a road to adventure. PS: posts on UA-cam can be edited.
Create mysteries/questions without readily available answers to hook them. "Why are people continually missing from the town every night? Why do people suspect us? What is that weird light hanging over the forest?"
Political Intrigue adds just enough context to gently nudge the Players into the world, who knows it may even create natural tension between the PCs as they argue who they should aid in the wider conflict.
Yep, there is nothing wrong with black and white, but its fun to have more "gray" factions which get the players thinking about if they are on the right side of things or not.
Hey, not sure if the first part of your question here was cut off! What are you hoping to see? I don't delete any comments although there is some UA-cam auto-moderation. Its also possible I miss comments too, sorry if that happened to you! Cheers
The value of the Sandbox is that there is no linear driven (railroad) story line. During the session, a myriad of side quests (hooks) are made available and the players may pursue which ever ones they want. As the DM you can emphasize the ones they "should" take, but the "choice" is theirs.
everything its railroad nowadays..
For sure! The GM has a major influence on events and hook options. You are designing the setting after all. But, you can use that influence to give more open ended options or much more closed ended.
There are no discrete quests. There are just beings in the world with goals. Just like real life. There is nothing the players "should" do.
Best thing that worked for me - have a high level Big Bad (that they can't harm at this time) smack around the party and humiliate them. This unites the party in hatred and vengeance-seeking; the entire campaign can have a major goal of leveling up to destroy all of the villain's armies/dungeons/countries/dimensional lairs. It takes more than sheer power to take down an evil empire, you gotta be smart and roleplay.
I love turning things back on my players.
"Do you want to know what knows about XYZ? You tell me what you know."
9 times out of 10, they'll come up with something better than I ever would and I can just run with their ideas.
That last one, about telling the GM what they are going to do next is GOLD. Especially if you are gaming online, you have to get all those images/maps ready beforehand.
These are wonderful tips! Nothing feels worse than preparing for a session and then your players completely decide to bypass/avoid said encounters! My take away is to ask my players at the end of a session where they plan to engage in our next session!
Thanks for watching!
Use a system where you can improvise encounters in seconds.
Very interesting and informative advice. My experience with the sandbox style campaign as a player is that it's as much fun as we (the players) make it. This fits with the way you describe sandbox play. Not asking questions of the GM, not talking to NPCs, while wandering around waiting for something to happen is not the best approach.
Cheers!
Well said!
At university, I played in a psuedo-sandbox megagame that ran twice a year for over a decade. We had a lot of players, and for sure some of the success of the game was down having a constant influx of new players. But part of what kept people coming back, driving from the other side of the country in some cases, was the memorable experiences we had. And while some of them were driven by our GM team (of which I was a part), the vast majority of it was driven by the players being BOLD. Like, Leeroy Jenkins bold, damn the consequences this will happen! The world space changed and evolved so much because of those moments, especially when multiple players Leeroyed off one another. Commit, and go for it. Yes, be smart if you need to, be cautious if you need to, but don't give up and change goals. Desperate measures to achieve desperate goals are the most memorable moments of all.
Sounds like a lot of fun! Cheers
I've both run and played sandbox games. I know the internet loves them but the aimlessness is a huge issue. In a lot of ways it's the opposite of the problems that a linear campaign can have where it becomes a railroad.
One thing that the GM can do is throw in some things that are linear from time to time. For example, in my long running (decades!) sandbox game, I've had events happen that drag the PCs in a direction they weren't necessarily considering, say to have an ally ask them for something. This may come at an inconvenient time for them, which represents the fact that your friends often need something when you don't necessarily have a lot of room. I've had magical accidents happen, attacks on their home base, enemies start doing things that cause issues, and so on. I leave a lot of room for the direction they want to go of course (otherwise what's the point?) but having things show up can really help pull the party together. It also reinforces the fact that the world isn't just sitting there waiting for you to blunder around in it. Another thing is that the GM needs to dangle a lot more plot hooks and only develop what the players express interest in. Otherwise prep just gets out of hand.
I also say: Know your table. Some players really aren't suited for a sandbox game or a pure form sandbox, just as some really chafe at a linear game.
I love Earthmote’s content! (Just trying to appease the UA-cam gods to keep these videos near the top of my feed…)
Thanks a lot!
What a great channel. Rly good content. Especially because I'm about to start a sandbox campaign:)
Thank you!
It can be helpful in thinking that since you're not buying a pre-written adventure you are collaboratively creating that adventure through your play. Thus, your actions in the game should be building drama and lore and story so at the end of the story you can look back and say wow that was really cool
Yep! The story happens at the table and the PCs should be central figures in it. So the players need to make choices and actions to drive their story forward.
This video is also helpful for DMs to figure out if their friends would enjoy such a campaign! I don't think mine would, indecisiveness could be their group's name, "analysis paralysis" their battlecry
Yeah fair enough! Some players like being brought a long for the ride so-to-speak. But you can always ask if they'd be willing to try it, and you might be surprised!
So their characters don't have families, obligations, careers, etc? They shouldn't have time to be indecisive.
@@mnmnrt What do you mean with families and so on? You mean threaten them to spur characters into action? Sure, their families are in danger from a bad guy but should they talk to him? Ambush him? Get their families out? Is there a magical solution? Is there an item that will solve it? Do they need more experience? etc etc
@@HydraDaLittle Is that all you can think of? Jesus.
I guess I think about the setting itself as the "story", like the story of this place the characters inhabit goes on and they contribute in part to whatever the tapestry is. I don't have the fortitude to like, make a thousand things happen behind the scenes, but player actions can tip the balance, plus things sort of happen in the background (maybe not quickly unless there's a time of change). But it does take a certain attitude, and I wonder if more experienced players tend to be the ones who know what the possibilities are for RPGs and so might be more willing to do things. I guess the challenge for me would be to get people who are just starting gaming to know they can kind of do want they want, if they're OK with "angry villagers" in some cases...
It's tough to do ahead of time but figuring out what your specific group finds interesting (ruin discovery, mapping, faction interaction, trade, looting dungeons, etc) and letting that be a focus for a bit while you sort of expand on options maybe allows for initial excitement to evolve into something a bit broader. Some groups may like delving for years but I'd want to allow for some other avenues in case my implementation of dungeons was slowly wearing them down or whatever.
Yeah, its good to understand your groups interests and seeing what they'd be willing to expand to beyond the original scope. It can take time to figure out, but its worth it if everyone's having fun! cheers
As GM I usually begin players at low levels in an almost complete sandbox (*see below). Then, as the players take things in their chosen direction and level up, the overarching story starts to take over. I keep generalized world-building ideas in mind (who the factions are, how they are in conflict, and stuff going on behind the scene), but I only flesh them out into an overarching story for the characters as the players head off in their own direction. I keep my ears open to what the players say and speculate about, and then pull that into the game, twisted in unexpected directions, of course.
* I do try to start the game with a reason for the characters to be together and a small goal for them to accomplish so that they don't feel lost. That initial quest/mission/goal usually introduces a variety of story hooks.
Sounds like a great way to handle it!
Good tips. With so many videos on GM advice for sandboxes, it's nice to have one focusing on the different style of play it requires from players. Frankly, a lot of these bits of advice would translate over to more story-focused games, too. There's so much advice about how to get your players to be engaged in the game, but how often do we remind players that engaging with the game is part of their responsibility, too.
Yep, I think a lot of it has universal applicability. But sandboxes will probably struggle more-so without the right mindset.
I would imagine there are a lot of ways to run a sandbox, but I don't like to depend on the player to try and figure things out. For one, a DM is going to know more about the status quo and situations than the players do. I use passive and aggressive techniques to get the ball rolling. Examples; Passive; Rumor tables some true others false. Passive; Message Boards and Town Criers. Aggressive; I let the adventure come to them, This can be done a few ways. I make wandering monster tables that have encounters that encourage diplomacy or negotiation. They have events not combat. Aggressive: Timelines, have things happen whether the PC's act or not.
I like Sandbox campaigns for PCs who are more character driven. The story can be about them.
Enjoyed your piece
Once when running Cyberpunk 2020 the players just kept sitting around the bar waiting to be handed missions. No matter how much was going on in the background environment they would just not engage with anything until it came directly to them. Managing expectations with a session 0 might have helped but those weren't a common thing back then.
Yeah, that's definitely a situation I'd just talk to the players directly about. Session 0 is a great place to do it as you mention. But checking in with the players is always a good idea too.
I saw the Dragon Lance thumbnail and the word “Sandbox”. That sandbox is 8.5 inches wide and 2,000 feet long.
Thanks for explaining this so well. Being a GM in a pure Sandbox-Campaign I am lucky to have one player who really gets it and he pulled the others behind him. Now though their interests are splitting (I handle this with second PC). So I will send an transcript of your video to them as not all are fluent enough in English. Will check your other stuff out in the days to come.
Glad its helpful! Cheers
This is really a fantastic resource! I'm going to send this to my players I'm running sandboxes for. Thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
Really liking your channel. Also I’m running a sandbox now and my players seem to be struggling with finding a direction I have seeded countless hooks but they prefer to flee more often than not
Being cautious is okay, but it can be frustrating if they abandon it tackling an adventure/location all together.
@@Earthmote I think our biggest difficulty is I shifted my players from 5e and emphasized the deadly nature of the game. An early character death drove the point home and now they are cautious to an extreme
OSE shelf ☑️
Monster Overhaul ☑️
They're great tools!
Thank you for the tips.
Thanks for watching!
Love earthmote!
Thanks!
Great advice. Do you prefer basic or advanced rules when pertaining to d&d?
I'm currently playing OSE (Basic/Expert) with their advanced fantasy options. But its fun to try out different systems!
OSE Advanced is great! Been running a game with family for about a year now.
What happens when your players aren't asking questions?
They're just following the game and not even trying to probe the setting?
Players should create characters that have goals, characters who would want to do something, try to achieve something, even if there was no adventure prepared by the GM at all.
The problem of characters having no internal motivation should be solved at the character creation step, otherwise you end up with players who need to be instantly pushed by the GM to do anything, and lose momentum immediately after the GM stops being the driving force, bringing the adventure to a halt.
I agree with @robertchmielecki2580 on player goals. It'll be hard to have a successful sandbox if they aren't probing the setting at all. Even if you give them an introductory quest/location, at some point they will have to decide on their next steps afterwards. That could be difficult to do without asking questions.
But if you think they are not asking enough questions, then I think you can also help guide your players along that journey. If they walk into a situation way over their heads you could have an out-of-game discussion to help teach them about the actions they could be taking. Sometimes people don't know what they don't know, and that's fine. Its okay to let them fail, and then afterwards have a post-mortem discussion (TPK not required): "Hey, you could have asked the sage about X, or gone and found mercenaries to protect Y". That way they can see the different avenues they have towards success. And just be upfront with them, if they want to know more about their options, they need to ask questions both in-game and out-of-game to understand the context.
Its also okay to tell them information you think their character would know before they do something stupid. "Hey John, your character would know that those spiders have a deadly poison, one bite from their fangs has been known to kill men bigger than you outright."
What happens is a bunch of people staring at the GM waiting for something to happen.
@@kontrarien5721Yup, and instead they should start screaming over each other "I need to go immediately and find some clues about my missing sister!" "I have to learn what was wrong with ancestors to lift my curse!" "I need to discover some hooks to blackmail this corrupt governor I want to exact my revenge on!"
Basically, during the character creation process ask your players what their characters will do if you turn up to a session with no adventure whatsoever and tell them "Nothing is happening, what do you do?". If their answer is "so we also do nothing" they should create different characters. Ones who actually have internal motivations that will put them on a road to adventure.
PS: posts on UA-cam can be edited.
Create mysteries/questions without readily available answers to hook them. "Why are people continually missing from the town every night? Why do people suspect us? What is that weird light hanging over the forest?"
Political Intrigue adds just enough context to gently nudge the Players into the world, who knows it may even create natural tension between the PCs as they argue who they should aid in the wider conflict.
Yep, there is nothing wrong with black and white, but its fun to have more "gray" factions which get the players thinking about if they are on the right side of things or not.
Comment for algo
are open to viewing home brew? asked this on here once and my comment was removed
Hey, not sure if the first part of your question here was cut off! What are you hoping to see?
I don't delete any comments although there is some UA-cam auto-moderation. Its also possible I miss comments too, sorry if that happened to you! Cheers
@@Earthmote doh, was curious if you are open to reading an amateur homebrew of mine :)
Can't relate. Sorry your players have zero ambition.