cant say smurfing does not play a role, when you are a smurf in Iron going 9/0 @ 13 mins But I agree with Fogged about Iron they cant climb if that's the way Riot set that up
@@KuKuKlock123 The issue is how do you actually detect and quickly remove smurfs from low elo? There is no perfect system for smurf detection and, again, no, K/D is not how to do it.
@tygonmaster I belive there is not a good system or at least needs to be highly sophisticated to be effective. I think the problem is the current shadow system for smurfs only hurts low ello plays not the smurfs been like this for years after riot said they implemented a behind the scenes system to counter smurfs
Regarding low elo players question, I go with option 4 - They're held back by themselves. Capable players, over a long period of time do not stay in low elo, that's a fact. They can have a losing streak in silver/gold elo due to smurfs or bad teammates, but overall they'll maintain over 50% win ratio and climb.
@@AdrianOkay So, don't play them if you can't carry with them. Other people can and have carried as support. If you can't, the problem is you and you should play a different role.
the issue for iron or any low elo player getting stuck is the ranking and matchmaking system lying to you. the real ranking is your hidden mmr, it is the direct reflection of your competitive output, how much (as a result of your gaming skills and decisions) your actions, on average, push a game toward victory. mmr affect your matchmaking, and various logics that we can only speculate on, as a result of mmr and average ranking of both teams will dictate the lp gain or loss of a given game. as a result, your ranking is merely a shadow of your mmr, it may follow it loosely or tightly. some people have awful ranked experience because they got worse, or the average player in their rank got better over the years, but the ranking system makes it incredibly hard to lose ranks, which cause them to get matchmade at their mmr, against lower ranks, struggle to make a decent% winrate, lose more lp than they gain and still not lose rank. the situation described before can also have other causes, because their mmr moved as consequence of duoing with a lower mmr player (even if you still win as much as usual and your duo is not holding you back in game, your games have an average mmr that is lower than usual because of your duo, so your mmr tends to lower temporarily). and this is only one example of fuck up, there're are many ways you can be in a shitty situation. riot is artificially slowing down peoples climb to keep them engaged, the official tool for it being the "promo matches", unless you are massively above the skill ceiling of the elo, you will likely take 2 tries to win 2 games out of 3 then 3 out of 5, this makes you play 3-5 games in between to get to a second promo then play that promo, which takes a lot of real life free time. and i'm only talking about you here, every single one of your allies and opponents may have a gap between his ranking and mmr, which would affect eh matchmaking as well as the lp win/loss. here, unless you have a silver level, getting out of iron is extremely rough not because of the average performance of your allies or shit like that, but just because you will regularly face silver players. part of the issue is also that riot is making up ranks and dividing players into them by skill level when the difference is actually no that great. plat is arguably the start of "congrats you figured out most of the game, now you really have to be better at it than others", and everything before that is a spectrum of different skills and game knowledge that individual players are missing. bronze to gold is pretty much the same shit, gold players are simply performing better. you'll see gold players not using autoattack resets, and bronze players freezing waves. the bronze still has no clue why he freeze and what to do with his lead, and the gold player is still managing to win games because he plays irelia more often than jax (true story). skills are all over the place there's no point ranking players from bronze to gold, the difference in competitive output can come down to graves' 2 points of ad. edit: totally forgot to say it. the way out of the mmr glitches and other shitty situations is to play a hundred games to make sur that it average out. average game played always goes up with the elo elo, and not necessarily because more playing leads to getting better (just look at the guys who played since season 3 and still suck at the game).
I've played League for over ten years and never made it to silver. The problem is I am bad at the game. I am "bad" because I don't play enough. The system, while maybe not ideal, is fine.
Getting past promos is the most frustrating part. Say you’re in bronze 1, they’ll put you against a gold 4 and put an iron 1 on your team. That’s a guaranteed loss.
I think about 35% of games are out of your control. The problem with the ranked system is that you will have to play hundreds of games for your winrate to really be reflective of how good you are and where you belong in rank. The only way to improve the ranked system is to have some metric that puts weight on your personal performance, but even riot is not the best at determining what factors mean that someone "played well", and it's constantly changing.
I cannot say that I am a good player but I have over the last 9 years followed my win loss ratio. I have basically stayed with a win rate at 49%. I have over 5000 games in 9 years and have never been able to get any closer than 25 games to be a 50% win rate player with over 4000 tryndamere games (yes I jungle with him). As soon as I get close suddenly I am in high gold low diamond games until I am back to -50 (which is 50 games from being a 50/50 win rate).
The system is SOOO shts… I went 8-2 in placements, carried every game, and was placed in iron. 😂😂 I was in bronze playing against silver and gold and getting 60% win rate but getting 23 lp. I swear I had gold MMR or something cuz of my 1000+ games in normal and aram. That’s why I stopped playing ranked.
I play LoL since its release. I had some years of break from ranked, playing only ARAM. Tried to play it again like two years ago? I was diamond before. Played 10 placement games. Won 9 of them, stomped AF in 10 of them. I was put in silver 3. Current system is a scam, period. Im not gonna waste god knows how much time to climb through 0/10 in 8 mins and afks just to start to have decent games. ARAM is the shit. Its more fun, its engaging, allows you greater build diversity. I got like 15000 of the matches since it released. I'll never go back to ranked again.
10:00 fogged speaking truth to power. The system ruins the bottom rung. I bottomed out on bronze back in Season 2. It was never this dire, it was never this crushing. The kids today have a raw deal compared to the generation before and that permeates through everything, even the videogame ELO system for matchmaking.
I got hard stuck iron. I get on a losing streak of 10 games, then a winning streak of 8 games. Then get a game with silver players where i am being autofilled as bottom while i am toplaner. A guarenteed Loss. Winrate at 80%. Now im bronze winning with 13/2 or something but my teams iets with like 4/11. Then you cant win.
I am SO tired of getting 3-4 trolls in my teammate EVERY single game. This has happened in 90 of my last 100 games, so I just quit. I will not be coming back until they either separate trolls to another server, or create an adults only server.
Fogged I normally like your content brother, but 'this game is great for iron. Its iron v iron.' So a smurf ruining a iron fair iron game is great for iron players? No man, it isn't.
If we take this game as an example, yeah you can say smurfing is the issue, but we take this same game without fogged and instead put random iron 3 Jimmy here then it’s about the system, and we put iron 5 Gary here then it’s about team mates. Each game is different and worth thinking about (cough cough riot)
Cho and Vi 😂😂 quite literally if they just took the time to learn the fundamentals of the game then they would be at least decent. It’s like playing any other game but not knowing the controls. You can’t play a fighting game and not know the combos or the inputs. That’s what I think a lot of these iron players don’t get. You can’t just jump in and not know how to play the game.
He. Was. Iron. No shit he does not know anything. Bronze players are just bad. They usually lack mechanical knowledge, but at least usually "try" to play the game. Ditto with silver, but iron? Iron players have something actually wrong with them. Either they play on 400 ping, they have actual brain damage (like legit something wrong with their heads), or they afk. There is no iron players that "simply play bad." That is why they only make up like 10% of the playerbase, despite being in the elo objectively the easiest to get into. You need to have something wrong with you to be in iron besides simple bad play.
Which 2 tanks do we think are the biggest gap. Iron to silver Bronze to gold Masters to chal Gold to diamond Real talk, if we have a team of 5players in one rank vs 5 in another which 2 rank gap would have the biggest difference in win loss.
Riot just wants to keep iron players practicing i versus bots and in practice mode so they can continue to justify the cost of supporting those features.
Because it's funny to watch, people in iron don't climb because they don't learn. You don't face smurfs 24/7 in low elo. If you aren't climbing, that is on you the majority of the time.
sorry but what's the point of this? You bully a team of Iron players who probably would have won if you weren't there. The only thing this shows is that smurfs are indeed a problem.
cant say smurfing does not play a role, when you are a smurf in Iron going 9/0 @ 13 mins But I agree with Fogged about Iron they cant climb if that's the way Riot set that up
“Iron should play against iron” 😂😂😂 yea and if a higher tier player gets an iron account then it’s fair cuz it’s still “iron vs iron”
@@KuKuKlock123 The issue is how do you actually detect and quickly remove smurfs from low elo? There is no perfect system for smurf detection and, again, no, K/D is not how to do it.
@tygonmaster I belive there is not a good system or at least needs to be highly sophisticated to be effective. I think the problem is the current shadow system for smurfs only hurts low ello plays not the smurfs been like this for years after riot said they implemented a behind the scenes system to counter smurfs
Regarding low elo players question, I go with option 4 - They're held back by themselves.
Capable players, over a long period of time do not stay in low elo, that's a fact. They can have a losing streak in silver/gold elo due to smurfs or bad teammates, but overall they'll maintain over 50% win ratio and climb.
the problem is iron is a different game than platinum and people cant expect to carry a game as a support or as an utility mage
@@AdrianOkay So, don't play them if you can't carry with them. Other people can and have carried as support. If you can't, the problem is you and you should play a different role.
the issue for iron or any low elo player getting stuck is the ranking and matchmaking system lying to you. the real ranking is your hidden mmr, it is the direct reflection of your competitive output, how much (as a result of your gaming skills and decisions) your actions, on average, push a game toward victory. mmr affect your matchmaking, and various logics that we can only speculate on, as a result of mmr and average ranking of both teams will dictate the lp gain or loss of a given game.
as a result, your ranking is merely a shadow of your mmr, it may follow it loosely or tightly.
some people have awful ranked experience because they got worse, or the average player in their rank got better over the years, but the ranking system makes it incredibly hard to lose ranks, which cause them to get matchmade at their mmr, against lower ranks, struggle to make a decent% winrate, lose more lp than they gain and still not lose rank.
the situation described before can also have other causes, because their mmr moved as consequence of duoing with a lower mmr player (even if you still win as much as usual and your duo is not holding you back in game, your games have an average mmr that is lower than usual because of your duo, so your mmr tends to lower temporarily).
and this is only one example of fuck up, there're are many ways you can be in a shitty situation. riot is artificially slowing down peoples climb to keep them engaged, the official tool for it being the "promo matches", unless you are massively above the skill ceiling of the elo, you will likely take 2 tries to win 2 games out of 3 then 3 out of 5, this makes you play 3-5 games in between to get to a second promo then play that promo, which takes a lot of real life free time.
and i'm only talking about you here, every single one of your allies and opponents may have a gap between his ranking and mmr, which would affect eh matchmaking as well as the lp win/loss.
here, unless you have a silver level, getting out of iron is extremely rough not because of the average performance of your allies or shit like that, but just because you will regularly face silver players.
part of the issue is also that riot is making up ranks and dividing players into them by skill level when the difference is actually no that great. plat is arguably the start of "congrats you figured out most of the game, now you really have to be better at it than others", and everything before that is a spectrum of different skills and game knowledge that individual players are missing. bronze to gold is pretty much the same shit, gold players are simply performing better. you'll see gold players not using autoattack resets, and bronze players freezing waves. the bronze still has no clue why he freeze and what to do with his lead, and the gold player is still managing to win games because he plays irelia more often than jax (true story). skills are all over the place there's no point ranking players from bronze to gold, the difference in competitive output can come down to graves' 2 points of ad.
edit: totally forgot to say it. the way out of the mmr glitches and other shitty situations is to play a hundred games to make sur that it average out. average game played always goes up with the elo elo, and not necessarily because more playing leads to getting better (just look at the guys who played since season 3 and still suck at the game).
I've played League for over ten years and never made it to silver. The problem is I am bad at the game. I am "bad" because I don't play enough. The system, while maybe not ideal, is fine.
Not playing enough is the solution. Playing 0 is best. There are way too many fun things to do in life to play league
@@havardmjPlaying normals/arams and not caring about ranked is the way to enjoy the game. You won't be addicted 😅
"This game is great, iron vs iron,"... says the challenger smurf?
Getting past promos is the most frustrating part. Say you’re in bronze 1, they’ll put you against a gold 4 and put an iron 1 on your team. That’s a guaranteed loss.
People shouldn’t be defined by their rank All The Time. (I’m aware this may upset some statistics majors and social engineers.)
They are removing promos. They already confirmed this weeks ago.
I think about 35% of games are out of your control. The problem with the ranked system is that you will have to play hundreds of games for your winrate to really be reflective of how good you are and where you belong in rank. The only way to improve the ranked system is to have some metric that puts weight on your personal performance, but even riot is not the best at determining what factors mean that someone "played well", and it's constantly changing.
14:24 "This game is great for an Iron player" WRONG! You forgot your point N° 3: Smurfs
Well, of course he is not going to diss on smurfs given he smurfs all the time.
Fogged you are very much on point with iron being gateket, and the system holding them back.
19:06
I love frazzlol comments 😄
0:47 9hp!... omg
Reporting this video for bullying XD reporting riot for enabling it
I cannot say that I am a good player but I have over the last 9 years followed my win loss ratio. I have basically stayed with a win rate at 49%. I have over 5000 games in 9 years and have never been able to get any closer than 25 games to be a 50% win rate player with over 4000 tryndamere games (yes I jungle with him). As soon as I get close suddenly I am in high gold low diamond games until I am back to -50 (which is 50 games from being a 50/50 win rate).
Then, that is the system working as Riot wants it to: getting you to a group of players of your skill level. Totally. No flaws.
The system is SOOO shts… I went 8-2 in placements, carried every game, and was placed in iron. 😂😂 I was in bronze playing against silver and gold and getting 60% win rate but getting 23 lp. I swear I had gold MMR or something cuz of my 1000+ games in normal and aram. That’s why I stopped playing ranked.
I play LoL since its release. I had some years of break from ranked, playing only ARAM. Tried to play it again like two years ago? I was diamond before. Played 10 placement games. Won 9 of them, stomped AF in 10 of them. I was put in silver 3.
Current system is a scam, period. Im not gonna waste god knows how much time to climb through 0/10 in 8 mins and afks just to start to have decent games.
ARAM is the shit. Its more fun, its engaging, allows you greater build diversity. I got like 15000 of the matches since it released. I'll never go back to ranked again.
10:00 fogged speaking truth to power. The system ruins the bottom rung. I bottomed out on bronze back in Season 2. It was never this dire, it was never this crushing. The kids today have a raw deal compared to the generation before and that permeates through everything, even the videogame ELO system for matchmaking.
I got hard stuck iron. I get on a losing streak of 10 games, then a winning streak of 8 games. Then get a game with silver players where i am being autofilled as bottom while i am toplaner. A guarenteed Loss. Winrate at 80%. Now im bronze winning with 13/2 or something but my teams iets with like 4/11. Then you cant win.
Anyone else notice that the subtitles for this one kept saying “iron players are being gay kept” instead of gatekept? >_>
I am SO tired of getting 3-4 trolls in my teammate EVERY single game. This has happened in 90 of my last 100 games, so I just quit. I will not be coming back until they either separate trolls to another server, or create an adults only server.
Smurfs in iron should not be a thing this would be something to push people away from wanting to play
Fogged I normally like your content brother, but 'this game is great for iron. Its iron v iron.' So a smurf ruining a iron fair iron game is great for iron players? No man, it isn't.
If we take this game as an example, yeah you can say smurfing is the issue, but we take this same game without fogged and instead put random iron 3 Jimmy here then it’s about the system, and we put iron 5 Gary here then it’s about team mates. Each game is different and worth thinking about (cough cough riot)
These players literally don't know the basics of the game. Cho stood there auto attacking.
Cho and Vi 😂😂 quite literally if they just took the time to learn the fundamentals of the game then they would be at least decent. It’s like playing any other game but not knowing the controls. You can’t play a fighting game and not know the combos or the inputs. That’s what I think a lot of these iron players don’t get. You can’t just jump in and not know how to play the game.
He. Was. Iron. No shit he does not know anything. Bronze players are just bad. They usually lack mechanical knowledge, but at least usually "try" to play the game. Ditto with silver, but iron? Iron players have something actually wrong with them. Either they play on 400 ping, they have actual brain damage (like legit something wrong with their heads), or they afk. There is no iron players that "simply play bad." That is why they only make up like 10% of the playerbase, despite being in the elo objectively the easiest to get into. You need to have something wrong with you to be in iron besides simple bad play.
Which 2 tanks do we think are the biggest gap.
Iron to silver
Bronze to gold
Masters to chal
Gold to diamond
Real talk, if we have a team of 5players in one rank vs 5 in another which 2 rank gap would have the biggest difference in win loss.
I think Gold to diamond just based off people I e played against, but I never got above plat
iron to silver and gold to diamond
15/0 with 300 farm is a little OC
"This game is great for an Iron player" ... except for the Challenger smurf ripping their faces off LOL!!!
AP Tryn is old Akali but with better split push
still doesn't get it why Vi engage every single time against 10+ kill 200+ cs 20 min
hey foggetftw2, have you thought about mandate support tryndamere? with everfrost? could be super fun :)
saludos desde Honduras, grande Tryndamere
it takes more hits to kill a jungle champ than champions
Where is your mage hat e.e
poor cho spend more time death than playing
these poor iron players got smurfed by fogged man lol
holy shit this is fun watching a master tier player slaughtering ironas
legit challenger player smurfing in iron and tryharding with no remorse. something is wrong with your head fogged
Now i know how to build item in tryndamere 🤯
Riot just wants to keep iron players practicing i versus bots and in practice mode so they can continue to justify the cost of supporting those features.
Support? Bots? What world are you living in?
I mean you get 0-2lp for a win but a loss is -5 like come on
That....what? That is not at all how it is.
who finds this content interesting? good job shittin on iron players dude, great upload
Me
I do
Враги какие-то очень слабые, триндамир колдун прикольно😂
What a shame to upload a thing like that as a high elo player, iam not impressed, why u do that? Go to challenger :/
Because it's funny to watch, people in iron don't climb because they don't learn. You don't face smurfs 24/7 in low elo. If you aren't climbing, that is on you the majority of the time.
sorry but what's the point of this? You bully a team of Iron players who probably would have won if you weren't there. The only thing this shows is that smurfs are indeed a problem.
first