Dragonlance is Changing | DragonLance Saga
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- Опубліковано 23 сер 2024
- The only consistent aspect of Dragonlance is that it changes with the game. Let’s discuss the history of Dragonlance Changes. Buy Dragonlance: Shadow of the Dragon Queen: amzn.to/3EbbJ9f
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Transcript
Dragonlance is nothing if not consistent in its inconsistency
Intro
Welcome to another DragonLance Saga episode. My name is Adam and today we are going to talk about how Dragonlance has and is Changing with Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition in its Dragonlance: Shadows of the Dragon Queen release. I would like to take a moment and thank the members of this channel, and invite you to consider becoming a member by visiting the link in the description below. You can even pick up Dragonlance gaming materials using my affiliate link. If I miss any salient points, or you happen to disagree with mine, please leave a comment below!
Discussion
Since the release of DL1 Dragons of Despair for Advanced Dungeons & Dragons by Tracy Hickman in March of 1984, and the novel Dragons of Autumn Twilight by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman in November of 1984, we have believed we know what Dragonlance as a campaign setting is. As the modules continued to be released, the first sourcebook DL5 Dragons of Mystery by Michael Dobson in December 1984 would flesh out and reinforce the campaign world that had been released piecemeal till now. We had the story of Huma and the defeat of the Queen of Darkness in ancient history. This created a wonderful back story and added depth to the world of Krynn. But all of that changed when Richard A. Knaak wrote The Legend of Huma in 1988. Lord Soth’s story would even change from the early legends and Chronicles versions to the release of Edo Van Belkom’s Lord Soth from The Warriors series in 1996. Raistlin Majere’s own test of high sorcery and his introduction to his first wizards school changed from the original versions written by Margaret Weis in Dragon Magazine #83 from March 1984 with Test of the Twins to Terry Phillips’ The Soulforge Advanced Dungeons & Dragons Gamebook released in September 1985 all the way to Margaret Weis’ The Soulforge released in 1998.
But it’s not just the lore that seemed to have been in constant flux throughout the ages, the game world itself changed. Upon completion of the Dragonlance game products in 1987 with the released of Dragonlance Adventures by Tracy Hickman and Margaret Weis, The Atlas of the Dragonlance World by Karen Wynn Fonstad, The Art of the Dragonlance Saga edited by Mary Kirchoff, and Leaves from the Inn of the Last Home edited by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman fans were sure they knew the entirety of this war torn world of Krynn. But as the popularity in the novels continued, and TSR saw diminished returns in Advanced Dungeons & Dragons game products, they thought it was time to switch it up. In 1989 they released Time of the Dragon, an Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd Edition boxed set by David "Zeb" Cook. This saw the creation of a whole new continent on Krynn and the seeming abandonment of Ansalon, the continent Dragonlance had been set on up till now. TSR pushed this new Dragonlance flavor with its computer games with Dark Queen of Krynn by SSI and its DC Comics series with the adventures of Riva Silvercrown in Taladas. They all but abandoned Ansalon, turning many Dragonlance fans away from their familiar stomping grounds to a new unfamiliar setting which they largely ignored.
When TSR realized their mistake, they attempted a course correction with the release of the Tales of the Lance boxed set in June of 1992, but that just highlighted the misunderstanding of the setting and even a constant accrual of minor canon changes throughout from the origin of some races to how and when certain events occurred. If you were a Dragonlance superfan in 1992, you noticed massive schisms between the fanbase, which up until then was unknown. But the changes made to Dragonlance from Advanced Dungeons & Dragons to Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd Edition paled in comparison to TSR’s last ditch effort to squeeze money out of this dying franchise with the SAGA System and Dragonlance: Fifth Age Dramatic Adventure Game by William W. Connors, Sue Weinlein Cook, and others in August of 1996. Yes, Dragonlance jumped game systems, gone were dice, hit points and levels, but it also moved the timeline in Dragonlance from the Age of Despair to the Age of Mortals. Magic changed with the absence of the gods...
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Thank you for watching todays Dragonlance Setting episode. What do you think of the changed Dragonlance has experienced in the past? Are you looking forward to the changes that are coming in the near future? Leave a comment below!
I'm a big Ravenloft and Spelljammer fan, so I was initially pretty concerned. But I have to say Lord Soth looks fantastic and the idea of a dragon's breath weapon that can animate dead is a big "where have you been all my life" kind of moment. I guess now I'm cautiously optimistic.
Hehe I like the stance. Who knows, we may be pleasantly surprised
Yea he looks very cool, but i miss the bucket helmet. A bit too modern to be an ancient knight :(
Heck yeah ❤
Kinda late watching the video. Have to say that I have been reading the new DL adventure and so far I am liking it. The wonderful thing about DnD and especially 5th Ed is that if I do not like a rule I can change it and that is what I am going to do, especially with the Kender.😉
It is definitely this kind of perspective that makes me love this channel and the kind of content you're making. I'm coming to Dragonlance from the other end, as a 5e D&D player/dm, learning about Krynn and it's world. Your videos have been a great resource to look through some of the older stuff for more information and ideas. I look forward to you learning more about 5th edition, and how it will be when the book comes out.
Thank you for stopping in and watching! I will have more videos on my experience and the live game.
Subscribed. What you've said here should be said about EVERY intellectual property and its fan base. Bring on 5E Dragonlance!
Welcome to the channel and thank you for the subscribe.
My group and I are eagerly anticipating the 5E version of Dragon Lance as the War of the Lance is our favorite time period
It is a great time period, and since the story is set before chronicles, it should prove interesting.
Also. Geeks and Gamers tabletop is recruiting new GMs and players to run campaigns, nobody that I know of is doing a DL campaign. Might be a great opportunity for anyone looking to spread some DL love to the wider geek and gamer community. I think it would be cool to merge the DL campaigns with G&G to help DL content creators get some more love.
I wasn't familiar with them till now. I will have to check em out.
I ran a long campaign in AD&D 2e in high school. I never gave the Saga System a chance, but bought the core set and a few of the supplements because it was Dragonlance. I was too wrapped up with Eberron during 3rd edition to really try DL at the time until Pathfinder, and then it was only a one shot here or there. However, I'm fully into 5e now, and and can't wait to run Shadow of the Dragon Queen!
It will be my first foray into 5e.
@@DLSaga Sweet! It really felt like meeting an old friend again when I received the PHB as a Christmas gift a few years ago.
Since getting the Shadows of the Dragon Queen book, I've been using this channel, as well as the first four novels, to supplement my understanding of the setting. This video, however? The understanding that "classic" Dragonlance still exists and being open to a new iteration, this is what is making me subscribe.
Welcome to the channel! Thanks for watching.
What is YOUR favorite game system? I’ve never played in DL. I only read the novels. I still LOVE this channel.
Thank you for watching as always :)
Thank you for saying that out loud, I agree with you, and change is good especially if more people get to meet this realm we all love so much.
I appreciate you taking the time to watch and reply!
@@DLSaga of course, use DL people have to support each other especially when you are talking the truth.
It's so cool to here about the history of DL. I never knew about the 90s drama because I was still a kid then. I remember getting into DL in the early 2000s and my older step siblings kinda rolled their eyes at me. They liked the setting but were preferred Forgotten Realms after the got burned by the DL drama. I never really understood it until it started happening to me later down the road with the post chaos war stuff. I still have a hard time disliking the Chaos Wars because it gave us Kang's regiment, although I think Kang's series could have been fine without the background of the chaos war.
Thank you for taking to to check out the video and share your experience.
BRUH, look up the history of D&D stuff was WILD
For me, the great thing about D&D is that I can play it however I wish too. I plan to play Shadow of the dragon queen when it comes out, but I will be changing things to match the lore of the existing books that I grew up with. I generally consider the books to be a sorta guide or baseline to work from(apart from the rules governing gameplay and what not of course), but the lore and what not is fair game for me to change and alter as I please as the dungeon/game master. We can make the version of Dragonlance we love, be it something unique or a play by play of the original books.
Ultimately, I'm happy to have something to be able to share with my friends and hopefully they can love the world of Krynn as much as I do when we play this adventure.
You have a great point of view on this!
I needed this reminder. I will keep my Black Robes and enjoy what I can in every version. Tea anyone?
Exactly, and yes please!
@@DLSaga i make a great brew. Actually I would send you some if I had a way.
I expect that there will be a lot of changes, as there are no people that I can see that will be working on the game materials that worked on previous Dragonlance. This is a single product and likely the only D&D game product we will get for a decade. So if it doesn't fit with the old material, I think it is best to take a page from comic books.
It is best to view the story as an "Elseworlds" or "What If?" Dragonlance. Something that exists in its own universe and timeline, with the same characters but perhaps with different tone or characterization. It will be its own thing, and if it is good will have its own fans.
It doesn't look like it will be as comprehensive a change as the 5th Age SAGA materials, which were world-spanning, contradicted basic previous setting premises quite heavily, and left subsequent product designers in 3rd Edition to force it all to retroactively fit back together with the old materials.
I like your perspective.
I agree. After the mess of the 5th Age/Chaos War, it's awesome that we're going back to the War of the Lance. Maybe we can skip that whole "Takhisis steals the world" plot and the pointless killing of so many characters (Caramon's sons, for instance) that was clearly only done to switch to the new system.
I think generally players put too much onus on the designers. We just do what we want anyway, lol. Who cares if they change it to their tastes, we’ll just be doing the same.
@@DLSaga - That's true with a regular group! But with newer people, it's nice to all be on the same page if possible.
I’m very excited for the upcoming Dragonlance adventure. I was planning on running a dragon campaign in my homebrew world so this will give me a plethora of material to steal from. I’m also always excited to dive into worlds from D&D I haven’t had a chance to explore
Variety is the spice of life :)
I had an interesting thought the other day, Raistlin is a Tome Warlock. All his power comes from his deal with Fist, and he gets exhausted after every 3rd or so spell.
I don’t know enough about it, but it sounds interesting.
I'm just happy that we are getting official 5e content for DL. I'll do with it that I do with everything else. Take what I want, and leave what I don't.
Here here
Just wow. In a channel filled with awesome videos I think this one somehow tops them all. Considering where the setting was, say 5 years ago, where it looked like it would fade into memory, I'm really excited about the new products and the settings' future in general! Long live the Lance!
Thank you very much!
Wait how did you post those DL emojis?
@@ASMRChess haha, that's a membership perk on this channel. It's less than $1 a month, I def recommend it. Access to certain member only videos, priority status for future gaming events but more importantly just a way of thanking this creator that puts out a TON of great content when as a Dragonlance fan there wasn't anything for years. Cheers!
My Beef with the UA they released (MW on Twitter agreed with me on my post as well) That having the Solomnic Knight and Wizard of High Sorcery as backgrounds just felt wrong. I get the idea of it since these institutions are fractured in this time period the setting is placed in, but I dont see RM as a person with a wizards background being a Wizard of High Sorcery is his calling among other callings as well. I dont see Sturm as a Solomnic Knight Background either. These should have been new sub-class options added to the material to truly create characters that are key archetypes of the dragonlance world. The background version with all the special feats was essentially giving those players two sub classes and its just wrong for 5E. I do not simply push back on evolving the setting to fit the existing version of the game or the expectation of the modern players. That is just how these things go, but mechanically speaking I disagreed with WOC take on Dragonlance class/character design.
That’s your right. Unless we’re stockholders, our opinions are not important, which kinda sucks. The UA was meant to get a sense of what players wanted and I don’t think enough gave feedback, but that’s just speculation.
Well said! What wotc sells us is only the material, it's up to the DM and players to form it to what Dragonlance is to them.
Absolutely! We have free will, let’s do something we love! We have always adapted and changed it to fit our own tables.
To the extent that they write a bunch of forced cannon or try to attach pointless stories I think most people are just going to ignore this attempt at changing the DL world. It's pretty well set in people's heads already what kind of world the dragonlance saga takes place in. They aren't going to (successfully) override the decades of previous lore that everyone loves. It'll just be "that time they tried to change dragonlance"
Or simply another time DL altered course. I agree though. The heritage of DL is safe.
As a 5e player who's only learned about dragonlance a year or two before but fell in love with a lot of aspects of it, the new book is something I'm more than excited for. I understand some complaints of changing lore even though that doesn't affect me personally. But honestly I see it way more as ways to further expand on characters. Soth being the best example, yeah he was never really connected to takishis, but considering this takes place early on one could make the argument he's perhaps seeing things less as a partnership, and more of a means to end for something greater. To kinda further explain, I tend to kinda take official material and spring board it to make a new homebrew world combing a lot of elements from wotc stuff into one already. With soth being a pretty big lingering force within it, basically fueled by despair and rage he wages wars and sieges on krynn constantly, but is reclined to only krynn, he can't get to this world's version of faerun, or eberron, etc. So why not in order to expand his forces and numbers greatly temporarly align with the dragon queen to attack those lands? I always see dnd at it's best when the dm puts their own spin on the game and settings, so it's also even then if people don't like the changes made and forgive my bluntness, what's stopping them from using the original lore in 5e? Or changing parts of the story to fit better with the novels? Or just something completely different with characters you love, but your own creative twists on them?
I think this is great advice and perspective. Customization is necessary. Thanks!
I have been brought into Dragonlance mostly through the new material, I had some knowlage of it before but Shadow of the Dragon Queen coming out is the reason I decided to seek out more information on the lore of Krynn, so if it brings in new people who have a passion for Dragonlance it's doing the right think in my opinion
That’s a great perspective to have!
Adam, as usual, always very excellent videos. You hit the nail once again, do what you want at your table. I love the original DL module and I'm starting a campaign with that. I'm also excited to see the Dragonlance 5e version. Make Dragonlance what you want it to be, its that easy. THE MOST IMPORTANT aspect of all this, Dragonlance lives on and more and more people will be excited by it. Long live DL and Krynn... 😛
Here here! Play it how you want to, and ignore the rest.
@@DLSaga I know I'm going to make less friends, but in my amended DL-1, in the Temple in Xak Tsaroth, Mishakal's statue will also be accompanied by statues of all the gods.... and the "disks" will have the information for all the good and neutral gods...
Great video, and great message at the end that is exactly how I feel about it. This is THE Dragonlance Channel, and I'm happy it's being steered so. Can't wait for the next!
Thank you!
Mostly just really happy that the setting and content are still relevant and experiencing a re-introduction to D & D for players that didn't get to it the first time around. So far, loved the new novel, I pre-ordered the content on D & D Beyond and the hardcover books. Great video, appreciate the work that you are putting into this!
Thank you, it really is a passion project. You'll have to let me know what you think of the adventure when it comes out. I will be sharing my thoughts!
Amazing video, REALLY puts it ALLLLL into perspective! You are a fantastic authority on all things Dragonlance!
Thanks, it’s really just observation and exposure. I love this setting and am always confused by those who pretend it’s always been the same.
@@DLSaga Aye, this is an awesome channel, provided to me some info that I was not 100% in the know about for sure.
I'm new to your channel. Just subbed. Very impressed with the quality of your videos. Im new to DL also. Im old-school D&D but never got into DL. looking forward to discovering more on your channel.
Welcome to the channel! I have nearly two years of DL content. Take a look around, kick the tires, and I hope to see you in live chat someday.
I have the advantage of seeing this after seeing 5e and it is pretty good but I last saw it 2e. It was one of the products that I liked but I had issues with thre lack of ANY diversity and you know that entire thing. At the time it really bothered me and this was not a DL specific issue. I noted 5e when it was clear that had changed and came back and seeing lots of new space for designs, how they really worked to make everything fresh a bit - the only issue I have is like most 5e we don’t get enough to really expand the world as much as I (personal take) would like. So all the sources you sighted - many I never saw because I was gone. This release makes me want to see the other takes now. Thanks …really brought a smile to me.
Whatever edition of DL you connect with is great.
Hey, Adam.
I have yet to game within the Dragonlance setting, but I've been a big fan since I read Chronicles and Legends decades ago. I just read through both the last D&D campaign book and the latest fiction book. I'm concerned about the quality of the 5th ed adventure, but am interested in the setting. I would love to have this as my default setting if I can find about people interested in it.
I’m running the coming adventure in Dec. I will let you know what I think.
I think you overlooked the true reason why people are weary of these books, the lack of setting rules and the unnecessary sanitation of themes and concepts. The van richten book is hated because they sanitized it and refuse to look at all the original source material when it comes to some of their political concerns; the spell jammer book was hated because one of it main mechanics ,ship flight and combat, wasn't present and people are concerned with dragon Lance because they know that it's somewhat grim dark tone is goings to get removed. At the end if they are soo afraid of political backlash why not make a completely new setting with said sensibilities in mind? That's what matt mercer did.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts about it.
I like how he left out the embarrassment that was the animated film. Let’s all collectively pretend they didn’t happen.
Hah, I was trying to focus on the lore and game mechanics.
I love that film
The lack of respect displayed by the curators of many of our favorite properties is disgusting.
They are parasites co opting these foundational touchstones to repurpose them, not to preserve or honor them.
I'd rather they just didn't touch it.
That’s fair. Thanks for watching.
@@DLSaga I am a fan and a member. I appreciate what you do and would never tell anyone else not to participate.
But WotC is not my friend.
Love the open minded positive attitude.
I appreciate you watching the video!
Great video, i love the message. Even if i don't see nostalgia in Dragonlance fans. I see more the desire to create something personal.
That’s the glory of all this, we get to chose and do what we want.
I'm looking forward to the new materials. While I think MoHS & KoS should be a subclass instead of a background, for both thematic & mechanical reasons, I'm interested in seeing what else is different.
The Lord Soth issue doesn't bother me. I can quickly think back to the core novels, remember a time when Kit was on the other side of the continent for weeks. Highlords are paranoid of losing their position. So who better to leave command to than the death knight sworn to your service?
This adventure is a prequel so soth wasn’t I billed for a while, historically speaking. That’s the core of complaints about soth as I can tell.
@@DLSaga Okay. My simple memory has Kit earns Soth's loyalty, which secures her as Highlord of the Blues, which then attacked Solamnia, and that's when the adventure occurs.
...but I probably have it wrong. Lol
Dragonlance has been my favorite fantasy setting for about 30 years, and one I often go back to when I find too much "modernity" in current fantasy. I am glad to know that a new generation of kids will be introduced to the setting, but I am skeptical and concerned about whether it will be done justice, or turn into another platform where all story and character decisions are driven by the need to check progressive political boxes and shoehorn in propagandic tropes.
That is really antithetical to the setting as well. There is racism, bigotry and hate in DL.
Good video! I had pretty much left Dragonlance behind until the new book was announced, and am now just glad that it's back (for the record, I didn't mind the changes to Ravenloft, but then I wasn't very emotionally attached to that setting). I'm reminded of Linkara's "Nostalgia can be speech", which I'll link in a reply to this, since UA-cam tends to not like links in posts.
Here's the speech I'm referencing: ua-cam.com/video/ZpNdCd9Bhh4/v-deo.html
Thank you for watching!
As someone who is primarily a fan of another Setting (its not hard to guess which based on my channel/username) but for whom reading the Dragonlance novels was instrumental to me falling in lover with D&D in the first place - the biggest part for the fanbase, even if you don't love this new Dragonlance adventure, is that the DM's Guild is now open for publishing Dragonlance material, and if Weiss and/or Hickman want to get back into publishing D&D material, with all of the Dragonlance IP available to them, they can now do so - its been a huge boon to Eberron, with our Creator, Keith Baker, having already released a hardcover, a second large PDF, a few smaller ones, and a new hardcover releasing tomorrow (though to be fair wotc also had him work on the official release as well, which is not something they were good enough to do for DL) - so while the adventure only covers the war of the lance period, guides to pre-cataclysm, Legends, Saga or other eras are all possible to build upon or replace the material in the new book.
You bring up an excellent point, thank you!
Very much looking forward to new Dragonlance content, but I very much come from a "yes, and" approach to adding new content (with a few exceptions). We live in a world where everyday researchers are learning new details about this or that thing that challenges, changes, or contradicts previously held beliefs.
Why can't Lord Soth lead an army as he is to do in Shadow Queen? Assuming the PCs win, he abandons the cause, goes back to Dargaard and becomes the neutral figure we encounter later in the books. Voila, continuity problem solved. Short of him dying in this adventure (which would be a real continuity issue), anything else can be rationalized.
This is the exact reason I’m not ‘up in arms’. We simply don’t know enough about the story to have truly informed opinions.
Given Soth`s backstory, he does that sort of thing all the time though.
I don't want much. Just a time machine to take me back to 1984.
haha Thanks for watching.
Wasn't expecting this kinda video well done!
Thank you for watching!
@@DLSaga your welcome 😁 love the videos learning so much about DL.
There are some fundamental elements that makes dragonlance dragonlance and when you ignore those, it's not dragonlance but something that resembles it. I don't mind changes if it improves the game, but these changes aren't an improvement, they are a shoe horn. Wizards is so afraid of excluding a player option that they are willing to trash the whole setting to accomplish it. If a setting feature isn't to a DMs liking, let the DM change it, rather than force it on everyone and make a substandard product.
Think about it, would it be Star Wars if Jedi all carried gun?
So uncivilized a weapon... Great point.
I'm going to run the original DL1-14 upgraded for 5e. I'm going to "stick" with what lore comes from those modules, but more because its going to be easier to just use those modules. Because I'm not a Dragonlance lore expert, I'm going to be ok with deviating in some ways from what is modern fore the sake of simplicity.
Right on. It’s going to be a totally different vibe in 5e.
I was surprised to see a female knight of Solamnia in the marketing materials. For a knighthood known for its facial hair, it was a pretty bold way to say "this isn't your father's Dragonlance".
But it's 2022, so who am I to say that someone can't role play a female knight? Have at it and more power to them. If anything they would have an interesting backstory.
I'm curious to see where they take this adventure. How big a role those weird little dragons with no breath weapon play, and if we'll cross paths with the heroes of the Lance at all.
I highly doubt any interaction with the Heroes of the Lance, since this is so far before any of that. I have no problem with anyone playing a female Knight of Solamnia, as long as they point out how rare it is.
Fantastic video!! Really well said… Personally, I’m excited for the 5e adventure… and I’m an old school fan, like yourself. :) p.s. I think Soth is doing his own thing in the new 5e adventure; I don’t think he’s chummy with Takhisis. I guess we’ll find out soon enough! :) Thanks for the continuing great DL content.
I’m really interested in how they are handling this all.
Nice video. Really looking forward to the new book
Thank you, only a couple weeks away.
Im new to Dragonlance. So I think I'll get it.
I hope you enjoy it
God, the 5th Age. That was painful to get through.
It was a lot to process.
I hope we enjoy it Adam. But like you it is DragonLance so I will check it out. Do you feel that it will be a Fun Version to Play? I always enjoyed Dice Hit Points etc but I also have enjoyed learning about the Card system which is fun. Thanks for the Video and looking forward to more of Forget the Kender .
I have no idea till I play it. It’ll be on this channel so you are welcome to see it for yourself!
The books always had a disclaimer that the histories are distorted by those that recorded it and that there may be clerical errors by the monks in Palanthas.
Some of the gaming materials, but I never recall seeing this in the books.
New d&d can't offer the same level of heroic action within the ruleset that old d&d did. The lack of deadliness and devaluation of consequences in general have made things kind of bland. Not that the old rules were perfect or anything. I think this why you have seen the rise of OSR and not just a return to the old games.
For Dragonlance specifically, it needs a level of gravitas that even the old rules struggled to give. Which is why you saw it move to a new system and then get a rewrite for 3.5. It was a book brought into a game system, not a world born from a game system so there needs to be a large amount of massaging to make it work. And without the right tools to assist, it probably won't work.
I'm fairly certain the new Dragonlance won't work either because it's likely the writers don't really care about the story world and their main objective isn't to make a Dragonlance game. The objective is to push their new "war system" and they want a setting they can use to give the whole initiative some extra boost by relying on nostalgia. They've come right out and said it in their promos.
Yep, I agree with your take. This is also why they made Weis and Hickman use ‘classic’ in their novel. To separate it from what they are doing.
@@DLSaga oh the classic thing, damn didn't notice that before
For two years now I DMing campaign set during the Ageof Might. It's great, even with some players knowing more lore then others.
BTW - it there any good sourcebook for this time period other then Legends of the Twins ?
That's awesome! I am not aware of any gaming sourcebook for that era.
I like the changes in Ravenloft but it stills work best in 2ed. I feel Dragonlance will be the same. I have it on order for next.
Month.
I really liked 2e Ravenloft too! Never played it in 1e or 5e.
You're completely right that the older materials are available (and are even available digitally on DM's Guild). But, and forgive me, I'm honestly not trying to be rude, it seems like a lot of these supportive videos are trying to shield the product from criticism, justified or not, by using previous changes to DL by TSR and then WotC. There a problem with that, though.
A lot of the changes you pointed out WERE mistakes, and don't really support the notion that we should uncritically embrace whatever direction the Billion Dollar Corporation chooses for the IP. I can only truly speak for myself, but I think a lot of us who are skeptical of the direction 5E is taking wouldn't argue that DragonLance continuity has been set in marble, quite the opposite. I'd argue that there IS a core of good stuff, largely involving the original creators plus some other talented contributors, that was there to build on that the new team doesn't seem terribly interested in utilizing and that's a shame.
The last time WotC took a huge departure in DL continuity without involving Weis and Hickman, it took a massive trilogy (War of Souls) to reset all the nonsense that cluttered Krynn. Weis & Hickman then left Krynn in a super interesting place following Dark Disciple, ripe for more stories on the page and at the table--but instead, for all the talk of change and innovation, we get a rehash of the War of the Lance for the first adventure out of the gate with seemingly randomly chosen changes to canon instead of something that really moves the ball forward.
All valid points. My video is not to suppress criticism, I can’t speak to anyone else’s. I am just pointing out the historical changes and known upcoming changes and keeping it all I. Perspective. Criticize all you like, I believe in free speech.
@@DLSaga wouldn’t accuse you of trying to suppress speech at all. I’ll even admit and I others can get too spun up. It’s hard not to, though, since 5E is a good system and DL a great setting and it seems that a lot of the potential in the combo seems to get swallowed up in the imperative to homogenize Krynn with other 5E settings.
Our ability to roll our own is greater than ever, of course, and good on WotC for even providing a venue to share those creations on DM’s Guild.
Awesome! I’m honestly excited to play the new stuff!
Nice, thanks for watching!
The way WotC is managing the new Dragonlance, to be honest it doesn't sounds fun or interesting. Even I want to know about the boardgame, there was 0 info about that or even game preview of the boardgame. The only thing I admit it look cool is some pieces of the art and some of the minis.
I’ll be showcasing it all on this channel, so stay tuned…
I think WOTC have confused a multiplane with a multiverse. the WOTC 5e cosmology - complete with its planes and gods - exists in one multiverse. Krynn, as originally conceived, exists within another multiverse entirely, with its own origin stories for races, rules for various planes, etc. WOTC seems to feel this pressure to unite all campaign worlds within its one multiverse, where every world is just a "crystal sphere" away. Doing this with Krynn (where Paladine is actually not Bahamut, for example) necessitates changes. But i'd rather they just left it alone and understood that not every DND world has to have the 5e cosmology.
Possibly. DL was always seperate until AD&D 2e. Then Spelljammer connected it, but even then it had its own cosmology and specifics.
Can someone come into this stuffit pretty new? Or for a novice DM is it better to be very well versed in the setting? It seems interesting
It's really easy to get into Dragonlance. All you need to do is read Dragons of Autumn Twilight or play a game set in the world. I am biased, but it's worth it.
The people who make the Pathfinder PC games need to make a Dragonlance PC game. It would be nice to show that all the Bells and whistles of Baldurs Gate 3 are needless. Also i for one enjoyed and still enjoy Taladas. The fifth age sucked.
It's great that there are different things for every DL fan.
I am looking forward to seeing it, I will probably take things I like from it and and mix and match with things I liked from past editions. Stuff I don't like, I will leave behind.
Yea, I think this is the best approach.
Thank you Adam for a nice retrospective on DLs history. As someone who lived through it I wasn't a fan of Saga, but I bought everything for the sake of learning the lore of the new era.. and was happy when the 3E Era came and consolidated it all. However as stated, not happy with retconing.... there is one thing adding to the lore.... but changing it is not. It's the main problem with a lot of things now, where history and facts don't matter. If Soth is now the 6th Dragon Highlord, this changes the logical outcome of chronicles and legends. Even the outward use of draconian troops is...well questionable. Would the dragons even want to work with Soth and his undead? Keep in mind there was a lot of infighting with the Dragonlords and even among the dragons. Such a change has a ripple effect on the story.... indeed a flow of the river of time not explored. There is already a prequal to War if the Lance... hints of the conflicts were in early stories with Kitiara and when the companions departed to find out. As for canon again... it's like taking a history test... but now you make up your own interpretation... History should always be factual and consistant...even in a fantasy setting. If you can just make anything up and change rules...what's the point.
All fair points. Just keep in mind that WotC is changing things to fit their narrative, wether we like it or not. It doesn’t mean we have to like it as we don’t get a say in what they do.
Saying that Dragonlance has changed in the past does not mean that all changes are created equal and that 5E is just more of the same in that sense. This does not feel like more of the same to me. The changes are not organically occurring due to world shaking events in the novels like they did in the past. No, this time they're going back to the beginning (the War of the Lance) and changing things from the ground up in order to strip away a lot of what made Dragonlance interesting and unique in favor of making it more bland, generic, and less "problematic." For that reason I will not be supporting the new D&D products. There's a reason 1E and 3.5E Dragonlance game materials are the most loved by the fans and that's because of the direct involvement of Weis and/or Hickman. 5E follows in the tradition of 2E and SAGA while nuking the history (which not even 2E or SAGA did) that we all adore which makes it much worse IMO.
Thankfully as you mentioned I'll forever have my existing game books and access to fresh reprints off of DriveThruRPG.
When they, and other "soft-y" publishers, hire Sensitivity experts or Consultants, I automatically turn my back on them and run the other way.
I've still got my old stuff and the real history of the Lance, so I'll just use that in whatever other system I'd like to.. as you also said. Good on ya!
When the company that brought you MTG takes over D&D, which happened a long time ago now, you know it's likely tanked for good...so here we are...more of the same. No thanks! Good vid try though. 👍
That’s a fair stance to have. Everyone has different sensibilities and tastes. I’m going to give it a go and if your curious, the live games will be here.
@@DLSaga I do hope that you and anyone else who purchases the 5E materials enjoy them. I'd never try and sway anyone away from something that they liked. I'm just very devoted to the established 38 year canon and the changes/reimaginings that they've previewed thus far really rub me the wrong way. Thanks for all the great videos!
@Khev what exactly is rubbing you the wrong way? Everyone keeps talking about various canon changes but other than Lord Soth I feel like I've missed the info. I am genuinely curious as I love the lore of DL.
Great video. People who complain that there are new versions or new content for an IP that they love are being selfish children. As you said, nothing is preventing them from enjoying the stuff that they loved. (The HUGE exception here is the Star Wars sequel trilogy that was an abomination that traded on the original characters and made them betray the entire progression of their characters in the original story, thus changing who they were. Unforgivable.)
New DragonLance adventure looks great. I'm going to be running it soon.
I do feel the same way about SW. we have a ton of EU content to enjoy. The sequels were bad.
Excellent video, Adam. You hit the nail on the head.
Personally, I believe one can hold true to their old school love of Dragonlance using the current edition's rules. I'm excited for the new products, which I hope to play soon.
And hey folks, keep watching DM's Guild for the the Dragonlance Nexus' release of the revised Tasslehoff's Pouches of Everything!
Hi Trampas, looking forward to the new Tas' Pouches. Appreciate your work on DL Nexus and how you held down the fort during those dark years where there were no books or products coming out and no awesome DL Saga channel. The Nexus podcast was the only new DL content out there for a long while and I enjoyed it very much. The interview with the great Larry Elmore was epic as an example
Thank you. Looking forward to seeing what it’s actually like to play through
WOTC is now Hasbro. They are pummeling Magic the Gathering by looting there fan base and pushing way to many sets. So technically Hasbro owns TSR. I have not played D&D in quite a few years. Im curious if D&D is affected the same way
They are targeting a different sensibility with the game it seems.
Superfan here since the 80s. I am playing Shadow of the Dragon Queen as DM and must say I like it. If there are minor changes to please younger audiences, so what? Nothing really lore breaking in my opinion. Of course, Lord Soth was not mentioned to be involved in the Northeastern campaigns of the War of the Lance or that the special MacGuffin attacking Kalaman is not mentioned before War of the Twins, but all is explainable. I had more issues with the new novel, mentioning a certain hand of a certain lich who has nothing to do with Dragonlance or a very cool barbarian character from a campaign region known to be the most civilized human culture.
Nice, I hope you have a good time running it. I know I am.
@@DLSaga Indeed, indeed. It is like homecoming after a long while.^^
Go Woke go Broke
Lol thanks for watching
Tldr if you don’t like the new dragonlance book, don’t play it. I just saved you a 10 minute video.
What a waste of time.
Thanks for wasting your time by watching.
HOMEBREW HOW I KEEP THE WOKE OUT OF MY GAMES I REFUSED TO SUPPORT WOTC
Thank you for watching!
I welcome change, sometimes we have to evolve with the new material as long as it’s good , but I understand that people that love the classic content could be disappointed , nevertheless please wotc gives us a more extensive source book too so we can continue playing in the world of Krynn once the shadow of the dragon queen adventure ends at level -10 💙🫶
I tend to agree. The IP is in the hands of a corporation that is casting as wide a net as possible, not catering to a small fanbase, so I do understand their choices, even if I disagree with them.