The Tibetan Govt. even had in their Constitution mentioned that, anyone practicing Dorje Shugden should not hold any govt. office. This cleary shows how deep the discrimination against Dorje Shhugden Practioneer runs in the Tibetan Govt. and Community. Imagine the US Constitution would mention that catholics are not to hold any govt. offices. I am sure no catholic would put up with that and demonstrate agains the govt.
Tenzin Dorje Thank you for speaking up. We need more Tibetans sharing whats happening, as when foreigners speak up we are labeled Chinese spies without any evidence. Yes we do know there is no one in the Kashag that is a Dorje Shudgen practitioner. In this day and age Democratic governments do not tolerate all these racism and discrimination.
I must be a spy then. I think this ban is total shit and antithetical to the Buddhadharma and the guru-student relationship. And it's just plain hypocritical and dead wrong to preach democracy and freedom yet on the other hand institute cultural violence against your own people for their religious beliefs. And no I'm not a Shugdenpa, and my only "relations" with China is when I'm forced to buy their items at department stores.
Well - in the past the Shugdenpa controlled the Tibeten Exile Community a small minority ruled the majority. The DS forbids to read Nyingma Text. Get the facts.
No body is doing discrimination about shugden followers but who ever not follower of shugden they are just boycotts of everything it's there right of private resturant and hotel so on plz listen to samthong rinpoche speech.,discrimination and boycott is different meaning,
we have religious freedom and the freedom of speech. no one can judge or restrict us from believing and from changing our perspective cz we are independent individuals who has every right to practice our rights.
Dear Heist True, thank you for your comment and more importantly for your appreciation of religious freedom and freedom of speech. Please visit His Eminence Tsem Rinpoche's blog at www.tsemrinpoche.com and be inspired.
You're having right of everything to do and no body is stopping you, so pls don't blame on Dalai lama, you can worship evils spirit as god your right ,if you worship shugden so plz don't go to his holiness speech anx wang that is main point coz shugden is actually not religion at all, from 5th Dalai lama and many other great Lama is boycotted shugden coz of so many reasons, one è,g, shugden worshiper can't keep nyima book.
People need to dissolve religion all together and come to their senses. Stop the cultism on all sides. It has no sense. What matters is that we love All life equally much. All animals need our protection. We have no time to lose. Things are getting very dangerous on Earth. Please focus only on how each person can help to make things better for all living beings, animals and humans.
So many Tibetans are so angry and frustrated with their exiled communities in India and very angry at their leadership in Dharamsala. But dare not speak out as it would appear to be an attack on Dalai Lama. No one wants to attack the Dalai Lama but there are so many wrongs in the exiled communities. That is why so many Tibetans are leaving for the west where they eventually lose their culture. Being in the west creates a distance with their despised leadership in Dharamsala, North India. Everyone is so tired of all the religious politics. Religion is suppose to bring peace instead more confusion and anger.
You're saying so many people leaving to west coz of shugden and religion but in reality it is not like this so plz don't fool people, we go to west for better life and not coz of shugden,
Speaking of "religious freedom" According to Buddhist professor and Nyingma teacher John Markansky: [S]ome Tibetan monks who now introduce Westerners to practices centred on a native Tibetan deity, without informing them that one of its primary functions has been to assert hegemony over rival sects! [...] Western followers of a few dGe lugs pa monks who worship that deity, lacking any critical awareness of its sectarian functions in Tibet, have recently followed the Dalai Lama to his speaking engagements to protest his strong stance (for non-sectarianism) in the name of their "religious freedom" to promulgate, now in the West, an embodiment of Tibetan sectarianism. If it were not so harmful to persons and traditions, this would surely be one of the funniest examples of the cross-cultural confusion that lack of critical reflection continues to create.
I am in agreement with H.H. the Dalai Lama's advisement against it, I also study mostly with Nyingma lamas, though I do not believe that he intends for there to be a "ban". I understand his words carry great influence but I think he has the best intentions in mind. For practicing Buddhists and those who practice the secret Mantrayana I do not think this comes down to a simple difference of beliefs but rather how one classifies Dorje Shugden, be it as an enlightened protector or a harmful spirit.
Dear Daniel, I have been practicing Dorje Shugden quite some years now, and the practice and the Dharma Talks that Dorje Shugden gives has only been beneficial. So experientially, Dorje Shugden does not harm. We don't have secrets meetings to extinguish any other Tibetans, not the Jonang, Nyingma, Sakya or Kagyus, that is buddhism and neither do we have the time. The Great 5th Dalai Lama wrote a praise and made a statue of Dorje Shugden, why would he do that if he thought Dorje Shugden was harmful.
If Dalai Lama intentions was to rid the world of evil, he could have chosen a time before the age of internet. In the age internet, everybody is a critic and information can be shared so easily, practices spread like wildfire, mantras go all over the world. Dalai Lama Is Chenrezig, he could have seen the wisdom and benefit of suppressing Dorje Shugden in the age of non Internet would have been decisive!
Wai Meng Wan I don't doubt your sincerity. My quote on the past secretarian nature of Shugden was more of a counter point to the idea of a "ban". On the subject decisiveness one could also argue that the Bagavan in his omniscience should have predicted this and said something about it 2,500 years ago. I trust in the Dalai Lama's decisions.
World harmony can happen, when people respect the spiritual ways of other people without the need to control them or force their personal belief systems on them.
Judy Choosa True, but evil can only happen when good people keep silent. We need to let the world know there is a great injustice happening. Dorje Shugden people has been asking for dialogue and it has not been happening.
Wai Meng Wan Its very curious that the Dali Lama would start this???? Can anyone get to the bottom of his actions and why he did it? Is it a test or has he derailed spiritually? I have always enjoyed the teachings and hope they are not lost in this controversy.
Judy Choosa I think the Dalai Lama is working with Dorje Shudgen to bring Je Tsongkhapa's teachings all over the world. The Dalai Lama has done very contradictory things in the ban like allowing Trijang Chocktrul Rinpoche to practice and this was captured on video as well. And Dalai Lama in the 60's has told of the 'conflict' between two bodhisattvas in the future..... And the previous Trijang RInpoche has said in the 70's when two bodhisattvas seem to 'fight' in the future do not lose faith in either. And buddhism is not about duality, also so we think this is the illusory play done by Dalai Lama and Dorje Shudgen to spread buddha dharma far and wide. Due to the 'ban' many people know about DS and have benefitted from the practices. Sometimes there is more than meets the eye, don't take things so literally IMHO. We love Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden. :)
Wai Meng Wan It sort of reminds me of a certain No. Am. Indian Tribe that had a controversy which escalated into a " Medicine war" . The one happy thing was , " at least its about their spiritual traditions and not some outside religion like churchianity". It made people more aware and stronger in their ways.
I think if you all really understand the BUDDHA'S TEACHING and focus on enlightenment. Please teaching people "The Way of Life" as the Buddha's experiment. The NOBLE TRUTH. God practice is NOT related with Buddhism. The high state of Buddhism teaching is focusing on enlightenment or NIRVANA. This practice SHOULD NOT BE MIXED IN THE BUDDHIST TEMPLE at all. It is just custom or hill tribe belief when people first lived in that period of time and they don't really know about Buddhism yet so they believe in ghost or spirit. You CANNOT SAY that this CEREMONY is Buddhism. NO! No! I am sure that it is NOT in the Buddha's Tripiktaka.
Wona Peaceful Yes Dorje Shugden and a whole lot of Buddhas, Bodhisattvas are not part of the Tripitaka but that alone, is not an indication this practice does not lead us towards enlightenment. As I know it Dorje Shugden is not a worldly god, his form is worldly but his mind is of Manjushri. And Dorje Shudgen has been very beneficial for my life and practice, Dorje Shugden leads us towards enlightenment, towards Lamrim, Lojong and 3 Principal aspects of the Path - renunciation, bodhicitta and the correct view of emptiness. Tibetan Buddhism has the 4 seals as opposed to the 3 seals within Theravada and this points to the fact that Tibetan Buddhism is part and parcel of Buddha's doctrine.
If you think Dorje Shugden has the 4 seals which is not in Tripitaka and is part of the Buddha's doctrine it sounds make sense. I first thought it is just custom or ceremony of Tibetans. I first thought this practice is NOT Buddhism it seems to me like ghost or spirit concern which is far from the Buddha's teaching coz when the mind is STILL the form should be calmed but this way the (em)body react. But if you think you consider this practice is part of Buddhism which is disappeared from Tripitaka then it should be combined with Theravada then
I do not think the I can incorporate it into Theravada, I have no authority to do so and because Dorje Shugden manifested 400 years ago. But practicing Dorje Shudgen, for me it increases my involvement in doing dharma work and the dharmapala helps to clear the way for us to do dharma. The hat worn by Dorje Shudgen, represents Nagarjuna's view, which Mahayanist take as the highest view of emptiness. The Theravadans do not mention about Nagarjuna who is one of two ornaments the other being Asanga. Which will make it harder to be accepted into Theravadan literature :). - first thought this practice is NOT Buddhism it seems to me like ghost or spirit concern which is far from the Buddha's teaching coz when the mind is STILL the form should be calmed but this way the (em)body react. - what do you mean by this?
Buddhism is unique religion no one can't CHANGE the unique teaching from the Buddha. No matter where you are or from. I am sure if Nagarjuna=emptiness which is mentioned in Buddha teaching of course Theravada is teaching too but it is absolutely NOT like "embody" which Dorje Shugden followers are practising. The way you do is far from the Buddha teaching and Buddhists never FIGHT each others in past, but when I see you all now you start fighting with HH Dalai Lama therefore I am sure that the Chinese Communist government is behind this separation or conflict. I think if you are REAL Buddhist you MUST follow the Buddha's teaching STRICTLY and I am sure that Ven Dalai Lam is RIGHT. Buddha is the FOUNDER of Democracy n freedom he said, "if you have FAITH in the Buddha teaching then you MUST focus on PEACE or state of mind and absolutely NOT the conflict in the Buddhist society
Wona Peaceful By explaining and providing the knowledge and reality about Dorje Shugden Ban did not equal to we are anti or against H.H. Dalai Lama; nor did we trying to fight with anyone. Our purpose is to tell people the ban has done so much pain and sufferings; and it has to be ended for all to practice in peace and harmony. Lord Buddha or H.H. Dalai Lama teaches only compassion and love, not discrimination or segregation towards another faith, including faith other than Buddhism, including Dorje Shugden practitioners.
Thanks dharma sister and dharma brother,
Tenni Jim Great Stuff.
Very informative, the world must know about this! #tibet #love
Jade HaraKiri thank u for your encouragement! yes, more people must know about this. this ban on #DorjeShugden is hurting many people.
The Tibetan Govt. even had in their Constitution mentioned that, anyone practicing Dorje Shugden should not hold any govt. office. This cleary shows how deep the discrimination against Dorje Shhugden Practioneer runs in the Tibetan Govt. and Community. Imagine the US Constitution would mention that catholics are not to hold any govt. offices. I am sure no catholic would put up with that and demonstrate agains the govt.
Tenzin Dorje Thank you for speaking up. We need more Tibetans sharing whats happening, as when foreigners speak up we are labeled Chinese spies without any evidence. Yes we do know there is no one in the Kashag that is a Dorje Shudgen practitioner. In this day and age Democratic governments do not tolerate all these racism and discrimination.
I must be a spy then. I think this ban is total shit and antithetical to the Buddhadharma and the guru-student relationship. And it's just plain hypocritical and dead wrong to preach democracy and freedom yet on the other hand institute cultural violence against your own people for their religious beliefs. And no I'm not a Shugdenpa, and my only "relations" with China is when I'm forced to buy their items at department stores.
Well - in the past the Shugdenpa controlled the Tibeten Exile Community a small minority ruled the majority. The DS forbids to read Nyingma Text. Get the facts.
No body is doing discrimination about shugden followers but who ever not follower of shugden they are just boycotts of everything it's there right of private resturant and hotel so on plz listen to samthong rinpoche speech.,discrimination and boycott is different meaning,
no one can ban anything we are free to do for the benefit or the detriment. the bird flys for what reason?
every force is a force may the good force be with those who promote life.
we have religious freedom and the freedom of speech. no one can judge or restrict us from believing and from changing our perspective cz we are independent individuals who has every right to practice our rights.
Dear Heist True, thank you for your comment and more importantly for your appreciation of religious freedom and freedom of speech. Please visit His Eminence Tsem Rinpoche's blog at www.tsemrinpoche.com and be inspired.
You're having right of everything to do and no body is stopping you, so pls don't blame on Dalai lama, you can worship evils spirit as god your right ,if you worship shugden so plz don't go to his holiness speech anx wang that is main point coz shugden is actually not religion at all, from 5th Dalai lama and many other great Lama is boycotted shugden coz of so many reasons, one è,g, shugden worshiper can't keep nyima book.
Thank you
Hi... do you know that Rinpoche has a personal blog? Do log on to www.tsemrinpoche.com.
People need to dissolve religion all together and come to their senses. Stop the cultism on all sides. It has no sense. What matters is that we love All life equally much. All animals need our protection. We have no time to lose. Things are getting very dangerous on Earth. Please focus only on how each person can help to make things better for all living beings, animals and humans.
So many Tibetans are so angry and frustrated with their exiled communities in India and very angry at their leadership in Dharamsala. But dare not speak out as it would appear to be an attack on Dalai Lama. No one wants to attack the Dalai Lama but there are so many wrongs in the exiled communities. That is why so many Tibetans are leaving for the west where they eventually lose their culture. Being in the west creates a distance with their despised leadership in Dharamsala, North India. Everyone is so tired of all the religious politics. Religion is suppose to bring peace instead more confusion and anger.
You're saying so many people leaving to west coz of shugden and religion but in reality it is not like this so plz don't fool people, we go to west for better life and not coz of shugden,
Speaking of "religious freedom"
According to Buddhist professor and Nyingma teacher John Markansky:
[S]ome Tibetan monks who now introduce Westerners to practices centred on a native Tibetan deity, without informing them that one of its primary functions has been to assert hegemony over rival sects! [...] Western followers of a few dGe lugs pa monks who worship that deity, lacking any critical awareness of its sectarian functions in Tibet, have recently followed the Dalai Lama to his speaking engagements to protest his strong stance (for non-sectarianism) in the name of their "religious freedom" to promulgate, now in the West, an embodiment of Tibetan sectarianism. If it were not so harmful to persons and traditions, this would surely be one of the funniest examples of the cross-cultural confusion that lack of critical reflection continues to create.
Hello Daniel, thank you for your comments. So what do you think about the ban on Dorje Shugden`s Practice?
I am in agreement with H.H. the Dalai Lama's advisement against it, I also study mostly with Nyingma lamas, though I do not believe that he intends for there to be a "ban". I understand his words carry great influence but I think he has the best intentions in mind.
For practicing Buddhists and those who practice the secret Mantrayana I do not think this comes down to a simple difference of beliefs but rather how one classifies Dorje Shugden, be it as an enlightened protector or a harmful spirit.
Dear Daniel, I have been practicing Dorje Shugden quite some years now, and the practice and the Dharma Talks that Dorje Shugden gives has only been beneficial. So experientially, Dorje Shugden does not harm. We don't have secrets meetings to extinguish any other Tibetans, not the Jonang, Nyingma, Sakya or Kagyus, that is buddhism and neither do we have the time. The Great 5th Dalai Lama wrote a praise and made a statue of Dorje Shugden, why would he do that if he thought Dorje Shugden was harmful.
If Dalai Lama intentions was to rid the world of evil, he could have chosen a time before the age of internet. In the age internet, everybody is a critic and information can be shared so easily, practices spread like wildfire, mantras go all over the world. Dalai Lama Is Chenrezig, he could have seen the wisdom and benefit of suppressing Dorje Shugden in the age of non Internet would have been decisive!
Wai Meng Wan I don't doubt your sincerity. My quote on the past secretarian nature of Shugden was more of a counter point to the idea of a "ban".
On the subject decisiveness one could also argue that the Bagavan in his omniscience should have predicted this and said something about it 2,500 years ago. I trust in the Dalai Lama's decisions.
World harmony can happen, when people respect the spiritual ways of other people without the need to control them or force their personal belief systems on them.
Judy Choosa True, but evil can only happen when good people keep silent. We need to let the world know there is a great injustice happening. Dorje Shugden people has been asking for dialogue and it has not been happening.
Wai Meng Wan Its very curious that the Dali Lama would start this???? Can anyone get to the bottom of his actions and why he did it? Is it a test or has he derailed spiritually? I have always enjoyed the teachings and hope they are not lost in this controversy.
Judy Choosa I think the Dalai Lama is working with Dorje Shudgen to bring Je Tsongkhapa's teachings all over the world. The Dalai Lama has done very contradictory things in the ban like allowing Trijang Chocktrul Rinpoche to practice and this was captured on video as well. And Dalai Lama in the 60's has told of the 'conflict' between two bodhisattvas in the future..... And the previous Trijang RInpoche has said in the 70's when two bodhisattvas seem to 'fight' in the future do not lose faith in either. And buddhism is not about duality, also so we think this is the illusory play done by Dalai Lama and Dorje Shudgen to spread buddha dharma far and wide. Due to the 'ban' many people know about DS and have benefitted from the practices. Sometimes there is more than meets the eye, don't take things so literally IMHO. We love Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden. :)
Wai Meng Wan It sort of reminds me of a certain No. Am. Indian Tribe that had a controversy which escalated into a " Medicine war" . The one happy thing was , " at least its about their spiritual traditions and not some outside religion like churchianity". It made people more aware and stronger in their ways.
feed the snow lion you never know when your children may need a lift.
I think if you all really understand the BUDDHA'S TEACHING and focus on enlightenment. Please teaching people "The Way of Life" as the Buddha's experiment. The NOBLE TRUTH. God practice is NOT related with Buddhism. The high state of Buddhism teaching is focusing on enlightenment or NIRVANA. This practice SHOULD NOT BE MIXED IN THE BUDDHIST TEMPLE at all. It is just custom or hill tribe belief when people first lived in that period of time and they don't really know about Buddhism yet so they believe in ghost or spirit. You CANNOT SAY that this CEREMONY is Buddhism. NO! No! I am sure that it is NOT in the Buddha's Tripiktaka.
Wona Peaceful Yes Dorje Shugden and a whole lot of Buddhas, Bodhisattvas are not part of the Tripitaka but that alone, is not an indication this practice does not lead us towards enlightenment. As I know it Dorje Shugden is not a worldly god, his form is worldly but his mind is of Manjushri. And Dorje Shudgen has been very beneficial for my life and practice, Dorje Shugden leads us towards enlightenment, towards Lamrim, Lojong and 3 Principal aspects of the Path - renunciation, bodhicitta and the correct view of emptiness. Tibetan Buddhism has the 4 seals as opposed to the 3 seals within Theravada and this points to the fact that Tibetan Buddhism is part and parcel of Buddha's doctrine.
If you think Dorje Shugden has the 4 seals which is not in Tripitaka and is part of the Buddha's doctrine it sounds make sense. I first thought it is just custom or ceremony of Tibetans. I first thought this practice is NOT Buddhism it seems to me like ghost or spirit concern which is far from the Buddha's teaching coz when the mind is STILL the form should be calmed but this way the (em)body react. But if you think you consider this practice is part of Buddhism which is disappeared from Tripitaka then it should be combined with Theravada then
I do not think the I can incorporate it into Theravada, I have no authority to do so and because Dorje Shugden manifested 400 years ago. But practicing Dorje Shudgen, for me it increases my involvement in doing dharma work and the dharmapala helps to clear the way for us to do dharma.
The hat worn by Dorje Shudgen, represents Nagarjuna's view, which Mahayanist take as the highest view of emptiness. The Theravadans do not mention about Nagarjuna who is one of two ornaments the other being Asanga. Which will make it harder to be accepted into Theravadan literature :). - first thought this practice is NOT Buddhism it seems to me like ghost or spirit concern which is far from the Buddha's teaching coz when the mind is STILL the form should be calmed but this way the (em)body react. - what do you mean by this?
Buddhism is unique religion no one can't CHANGE the unique teaching from the Buddha. No matter where you are or from. I am sure if Nagarjuna=emptiness which is mentioned in Buddha teaching of course Theravada is teaching too but it is absolutely NOT like "embody" which Dorje Shugden followers are practising. The way you do is far from the Buddha teaching and Buddhists never FIGHT each others in past, but when I see you all now you start fighting with HH Dalai Lama therefore I am sure that the Chinese Communist government is behind this separation or conflict. I think if you are REAL Buddhist you MUST follow the Buddha's teaching STRICTLY and I am sure that Ven Dalai Lam is RIGHT. Buddha is the FOUNDER of Democracy n freedom he said, "if you have FAITH in the Buddha teaching then you MUST focus on PEACE or state of mind and absolutely NOT the conflict in the Buddhist society
Wona Peaceful By explaining and providing the knowledge and reality about Dorje Shugden Ban did not equal to we are anti or against H.H. Dalai Lama; nor did we trying to fight with anyone. Our purpose is to tell people the ban has done so much pain and sufferings; and it has to be ended for all to practice in peace and harmony.
Lord Buddha or H.H. Dalai Lama teaches only compassion and love, not discrimination or segregation towards another faith, including faith other than Buddhism, including Dorje Shugden practitioners.