BATTLETECH: The Gargoyle / Man o' War
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- Опубліковано 24 лют 2023
- The #Gargoyle has arrived. This #ClanWolf #Battlemech, which is now as of the #Ilclan era also in the hands of #ClanHellsHorses is one of the first #Clan #AssaultMechs to have entered the #InnerSphere on the front lines of the #ClanInvasion launched in 3050.
But this design is not without its detractors, and its not without its controversies. More than a few dub it as the Clan #Charger, and perhaps rightly so.
So, my #Mechwarrior enthusiast friends, let us begin looking at this Wolf-Mech with open eyes, and examine the #ManOWar, as the Spheroids call it, for its virtues, and for its faults.
Because this #Omnimech most definitely has faults.
#Darkage #ChargerIIC #TimberWolf #Woodsman #Winning #Wolf #HellsHorses #GoldenCentury
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Note: I am not associated with the Battletech / Mechwarrior IP, and create this under fair-use. Ownership of the Battletech IP resides with several companies at this time. I support all official releases. - Ігри
Clan Wolf: "We're going to mount the weapons exclusively on the arms, to make it faster to refit and rearm."
Also Clan Wolf: "Why are we constantly having to literally rearm the thing?"
#Winning
Gargoyle vs atlas gargoyle disarmed
To be fair the arms also have the widest firing arcs which helps you bring them to bear while engaging in evasive maneuvers.
@@kwangsoo515 i mean, the main reason is so you don't loose firepower if you take additional armor eh I mean Battle Armor troops into combat :)
@@TheArtofFencing I gave you a like because it is a funny meme but realistically if you treated infantry like armor you would be court-martialed and even in the clans you would be challenged to trials of grievance until someone killed you.
This is what happens when an Atlas and a Charger are cooped up in the same dropship for too long.
The At-Large! Hahaha
No a banshee and a charger
Or this what happens when a charger raises the mix of Rifleman and Commando.
@@UniversalChallenge4454 The face is more Atlas than Banshee.
Gargoyle: When you apply the full range of clan tech to a Charger... and you're still a meme.
The Charger C exists
@@warlok363 Yup and the snow ravens really hate it a lot that they actually allow sales of it to mercs.
On one hand it definitely has its limitations compared to other clan mechs, even heavies as you've said. On the other hand, I can understand the first contacts it had against IS forces causing them to label it as one of the most dangerous, because I would freak out if an assault mech was running at me going the speed of a medium mech (I mean, a timberwolf is only 5 tons lighter, but your displays and battle-book are telling you this thing is an assault mech! An assault mech rocketing towards you!) , and with clan firepower you probably aren't objectively comparing it to other clan mechs as its tearing your fleeing company apart. That's just the first few contacts though, its a little surprising if it kept that same rep long term.
It could be that its limitations weren't noticed since they might not have encountered it enough to know the reality from the hearsay.
That Clan Wolf "quote" made me think of Ricky Bobby in Taladega Nights
"I'm the best there is. I wake up in the morning and I piss excellence, and there's nobody who can hang with my stuff."
There will be more quotes that I deliver, the more of that clan I am forced to talk about. XD
Clan Hell's Horses is simultaneously the most wrinkly- and smooth-brained out of all of the clans.
*embraces Combined Arms Doctrine*
*replaces a cavalry mech with a Gargoyle for some Founder-forsaken reason*
*rips a fat line of coke*
"GUYS! What if we took a Warhammer but made it a MEGA WARHAMMER?"
Hellbringer is born. And it was glorious.
Then you have them making the Hellstar, one of the nastiest mechs in the entire setting as of 3079.
And the Thunder Stallion for fun.
Iam convinced clan hells horses was most just the guys at KELTEC
@@heirofaniu funny enough that’s how KELTEC makes 90% of its designs too
@@RomanvonUngernSternbergnrmfvus Nah KELTEC is what happens when your design lead for all your products is a fourteen year old boy who starts every design project with the statement "Hey guys! You know what would be the tightest shit?"
Tough to say anything about the Gargoyle that you didn't. Putting 400-rated engines in 80 ton Assault Mechs is always going to be a dicey proposition based on just how expensive they are. Clan society might get paid in honor, but they're still beholden to resources and economic value. The lack of Endo-Steel in the Gargoyle, despite ample engine heat sink room, is a terrible cost compromise that really sinks it compared to Clan heavies that can pull off half their weight in free tonnage for weapons.
The K variant of the Gargoyle really is an excellent monster though. It's something so un-Clan-like that I don't think anyone would ever expect to have to deal with it in a fight with them. In every other variant, the focus on it being really fast and armored is undermined by how easy it is to disarm by taking out the less-protected arms. The roided out Phoenix Hawk IIC really is the superior mech, taking the Gargoyle's role and adding jumping on top.
The reason the IS likely feared them because it's still a clan mech in an era where such things would be feared; doubly so if it's common and has more chances to get kills.
I find it amusing that the Gargoyle Prime was Ulric Kerensky's mech of choice
Might as well been coffin shopping that day
He had full rights of customization, and he chose 2 arm mounted LB2X cannons and 14 torso mounted streak SRM tubes. Coffin shopping is right.
Ulric did not want to sweat in the cockpit... it ruined his clan pretty-boy image.
Ahh... the Gargoyle, the Salieri to the Timber Wolf's Mozart. I will admit even I personally enjoy this mech, since even if I lose the arms I still go all Monty Python's Black Knight on my opponents. No arms left? Just a flesh wound!
But.... that's most or all of you firepower!
"Big Guns never Tire" Its good to hear Fritz philosophy on different channels.
Cant wait to see you cover the Lamborghini of Battletech, my beloved Timberwolf. Always great content!
A fine machine that I'll take over the Thor any day. Not just because the corroded copper cockatoo is a jerk, but because the Timber Wolf has generally preferable configurations, especially when comparing Primes.
Personally I've always liked the Gargoyle. I remember playing it on Mechwarrior 2 Mercs and Mechwarrior 4 Mercs. Both times were fun using it. In the technical readouts and canon material though, I can understand your vitriol towards it. Still, it's a mech I do have fond memories of.
I kinda like the videos on bad mech; they’re really interesting and fun to learn about, if for no other reason than laughing at bad designs, but also for inspiration for projects or ideas for how to improve them
Bad mechs are honestly much more interesting than reading about nothing but great mech designs. They both require, and have more space, for creativity.
If you like videos on bad mechs, I recommend Charger video from Tex of Black pant legion...
"You can choose to win" yeah kinda sums up clan wolf
I love running the Delta as a MiPL-boat in MWO. The “Roadrunner” horn is much too appropriate.
From the art, it looks like what happens when you remove the eyepatch from the grasshopper and gave it ballistics.
I can't unsee it now.
Holy crap. I never thought of the LRM-5 as an eye patch! How did I not see that!?
It's not like grasshopper needed another reason to be cool, but that's kind of awesome
This is something I love about battletech, it's realistic in terms of designers chasing a dream of the perfect war machine.
We still do it today, we have very flawed machines trying to do too much (Bradley, humvee, harrier, ect)
The Bradley isn’t bad. The humvee was specialized for a conventional war, and the harrier I don’t know all the details on
@@baker90338 no it's not bad, none of them are bad.
It the us military tried to push them into roles they were never meant to be
Gargoyle Battlemech: Because Clans can meme too!
I like to imagine some alternate timeline where this thing didn't suffer from its flaws and we got a Gargoyle line comparable to the Timberwolf, rather than it being the clan Charger. I love the look of the thing but it's just a tragedy.
Never been a fan of the gargamel, but the hatchet variant is intriguing
Though modded Mechwarrior 5 isn’t a direct translation of the tabletop game, I can indeed confirm that an 80-ton mech with a hatchet can wreck a lot of faces (ofttimes literally) in a massive battlefield. I can see why the Gargoyle K is a rightly feared configuration.
Weak builds are done on purpose by the Clans.
If you can win in a weak design, you are a skilled warrior.
Extremely skilled pilots would explain its reputation
Non skilled warriors rely on numbers, be it by tonnage or amount of engines on the field. Skilled warriors could take a subpar but quirky mech and win battles with them. However, I do not believe that Clan Wolf fell into the realm of intentionally gimping this mech... this was a very intentional attempt at perfection that landed in the deepest water of mediocrity. The Gargoyle is neither quirky nor gimped, it is just poorly made.
So the only positives I have for the garg, which I use a lot. Its a solid objective holder that can deliver elementals. And it can support those elementals, the prime that is, with a lot of anti infantry weapon systems that can also deal with vtols that might be acting in rapid reaction. The prime to my mind is a fast elemental support mech.
Interestingly it's a perfect mech for a snow raven r-star, although without hands it needs tow cables or nets.
A lot of the lighter taxis can't stop moving or they get hit. A dasher is a better taxi, but it can't hold an objective for long.
It's also a great IS taxi during the civil war.
On the game side of things, it's a great mech because of the pv in alpha strike,its great for 'I want big and heavy' for low pv games where you are using skill 3 clan pilots.
Ultimately its not great, but it has niche uses.
See I called it, the Man O' War was coming up, Jedi mind powers still working strong 🙂.
"The Gargoyle: We'll figure something out eventually!"
The old artwork for the Gargoyle was so bad that I didn’t care about how bad the mech was. Now, the new art looks amazing and so I want the mech to be good too!
Gargoyle K (the hatchet wielder) is basically a Clan Berzerker.
21 tons of pod space is not impressive for an assault mech. If you save 12 crit slots by including 6 additional double heat sinks in the 400 XL engine, you can spend 7 more to give this mech clan endo steel. The extra 8 tons of pod space would make a huge difference.
Phoenix Hawk IIC you say?
@@BigRed40TECH It's nerfed but it wasn't always so (prior to game introduction back in the 90s, ALL the Clan Omnimechs from 3050 used initially had Endo Steel). They changed the Garg, Warhawk and Summoner to use Standard Internals for the game, which is why the Summoner and Gargoyle are less funcitonally effective than the Timber Wolf (another reason to hate it by proxy, sir). A gargoyle with endo would have been far more terrifying if not more unplayable because of the ridiculous BV1 (or BV2) value it would have...
@@tehpw7574 Just grab the Phoenix Hawk IIC
It's 4 tons of pod space saved, not 8
Great listen. Cheers
80 tons really is the graveyard of mechs.
You gain nothing but the ability to mount a few more points of armor...at a considerable cost increase due to the non linear engine cost.
And the trap that is the 400 point engine....🤯
Sometimes I think Assault mechs shouldve gotten an extra 1-2 points of IS just to put emphasis on their tankiness.
I'm starting to believe that Clan Hells Horses is maybe 1 or 2 competent leaders and a retooling of industry to be really dangerous.
Then again, they also seem to have doctrines that involve them getting kicked in the head by a horse. Who's to say.
Another great overview :-) now I understand why my clan opponents have never picked this mech lol...never fought against it usually my opponents go for the heavies over the assaults to be fair :-)
I took out one of these with a Stormcrow , Mano a Mano
Biggest thing that holds this mech back are the 8 double heat sinks built into the f’ing engine. Take out some, upgrade SRM 6s to ATM 6s, exchange LBX for Large pulses, throw on whatever else makes you happy.
Nah, Omnimechs ought to fill out their engine heat sinks because those can't be pod-mounted-it's way more space-efficient to use those engine slots.
@@scytheseven9173The Gargoyle lacks the Pod space to fill out those internals to begin with......
2 Less DHS would equals almost 10% more pod space.
A switch from FF to Endosteel and using half of that mass for armor would do the same thing.
Those would be the easiest fixes to the Gargoyle.
Most of the video: this is a meh mech.
Gets to variant K: this mech is perfect
Great Mech video.
31:45 plastic ha, I have the OG pewter Gargoyle from the early 90s... 😎.
Along with all the other pewter omnimechs sets that came out at that time 😎.
80-tonners are the BattleTech Designer's Folly weight class. So often any 80-tonner can be made better by switching to a 75-t chassis. But! It is fun though, you have to admit.
This mech definitely is a good start to wanting to customize a mech to make it perform better.
But then it's not a Gargoyle ;)
Oh no! A Gargoyle! It's going to gargle at us!
Spurdo Spärde Mech!
Important points of comparison;
The Timber Wolf has one more ton of armor, one less engine heatsink, and 8 less internal structure points, while also having 6 additional tons of pod space.
The Gargoyle isn't *bad*, and with its limited tonnage it won't be able to get to some of the obscenities of Clan BV. It's just not a perfect machine.
I like the Gargoyle despite it being kind of wrong for the job on its class. On the positive its a Charger, but done right. Its gotten a lot of attention recently, making cool poses on covers.
Its extremely fast for an Assault Mech thanks to its Extralight Engine. Its Prime Configuration is deliberately undergunned, but any of its configurations that focus on energy weapons are very powerful.
Configuration C is a brawler with an Ultra-Autocannon 20 and 6 clan-grade Extended Range Medium Lasers.
Configuration D use 2 clan-grade Extended Range Large Lasers to snipe enemies, 3 clan-grade Medium Pulse Lasers for short-medium range, and uses a Targeting Computer.
The Configuration K is nuts. The clans abandoned tradition on this one, arming it with a inner-sphere Hatchet and Supercharger. It has 12 Streak SRM tubes, and 4 Improved Heavy Medium Lasers.
I've used the D model to good effect. The key to success with it is to pair it with something which will draw attention better. it cannot easily afford to be focused down.
It understandable that you like the Gargoyle.. you have stated that in your table top game play like faster mechs are your preference so naturally one of 2 of these would find it's way into any trianary or cluster 5hat you created... Or I assume you would. Personally, I have one anchoring a scout star by adding jump jets into it to increase it's mobility... If a innersprear scout lance doesn't immediately turn tail and run.. 8t will draw most of their fire being it the easiest of my mechs to hit .. giving normal light medium mechs with it easy shots into their backs 8f 5hey ran or close into short range if they choose to remain.... Regardless a Gargoyle can soak up damage from any IS mech assigned to scout for my troops . mobile enough to avoid artillery strikes from hidden observation as I equipped Beagle/ECM on all my mechs( 1 ton iweight for combo unit... Protects from C 3 being used against me..I know 1st hand what I can do with a battalion of mechs with C3 against clan w/o ECM protection... Sacrifice fast heavy mech to get into 7 hexes .or short range of ERPPC. .. and everyone gets to fire as if it's short range . As long as the dice are rolling average...i ll destroy a clan triany all day 2ith a C3 eqqipted IS battalion or 3 companies or mechs...... All day long......unless theirs ECM protection for the clans.... Then 3 of my command mechs are short 4 tons of load out the CAR command unit weighs and 33 other mechs are short 1 medium lasers or what C3 slave unit weighs...which is a lot of fire inpower given up 5o have a C3 equipt battalion... I had to point out what my friends playing the clans failed to read in the 3050 technical readout.. which I myself didn't see at first when we 1st had the clan invasion.....it wasn't from my memory too much info on ECM in 2750 technical readout on what it nullifies... Nuch like the game play for the Executioner nal-void shield does...although I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure I would have fielded multiple Executioners in a game had it spelled out anything like plus 2 to a 2d6 4lroll at long rwnge... I'm certain of that one... ECM = no sensor locks from TAG or Narc or C3 ... Surprised it doesn't nullify Artimis as well...but ...well worth the 1 ton cost ...so I've made that standard on all mechs.regarless of weight or purpose.. Not just 1 per star to cover all 5 mech.ALL MECHS lstead of 6 ER medium Lasers...only 5 now... .. The ECM bubble is only 5 hexes around ... With speed of some mech... Quickly out distance the coverage or curtail the speed of faster mechs making them easier to hit... Keeping 5 mech within the ECM bubble...makes straffing..from aerotech fighters....or long tom artillery that much easier to succeed in hurting me or me hurting someone with my ambushes I invent some times... . So I decided every mech gets the ECM/Beagle Probe combo unit... Gargoyles are great for thrawting traps and ambushes cuz of their mobility( should have jump jets as standard equipment) .. entrapping the victims is for sure the most successful executed ambushing. I've accomplished... Beagle. Active Probe works detecting hidden shut down mechs vechicles but will only alert that it's being jammed by ECM .. however... Natural hazards can go undetected... So hidden pitfalls orswampand rubble always work to slow down non jumping mechs
The Prime is evil if you use Duel rules, since it's oversinked enough to keep firing its guns all the time. It's also mean if Called Shots (different from Aimed Shots) are used.
The Gargoyle is also nice in Clan vs IS battles, because it has quite low BV but good armor, which is useful.
The only real bad one, IMO, is the B.
What's odd is that the Gargoyle isn't popular with the Ghost Bears. Not only looking kinda like the Executioner, it has an overly large engine for its size (something the Bears seem to like) and most of its weapons are in the arms--making it good for ferrying BA.
Great video, though I have to ask did you create the image with the Gargoyle or is it from a book or something else?
A few minutes in I realised I recognized the buildings in the background as Edinburgh Castle and what looks like St Giles Cathedral, took me by surprise as I wasn't expecting to see some landmarks of my country in a Battletech video! 😂
That image is a cover of a Shrapnel Magazine iirc.
I like the K, it’s like what the Charger should’ve been.
More like it's what the Charger couldn't be, but wanted to.
And it looks like fun.
Cool I haven't heard alot about this mech so this is a great video for me to watch then. Lol
The Gargoile is a machine difficult to find an accommodation for. Honestly, the best version I've made of it for board and MWo was one with 8 heavy medium lasers and 27 double radiators, the generous 10 + 6 that carries in the reactor plus 11 distributed by the mech, and all armor.
"double radiators"
Ive seen it all folks.
@@TimberWulfIsHere Sorry, I know the correct word is Heatsink, but I lost the translation in my mind when thinking about the answer in Spanish. Both in Spanish and of course in the first translation of battletech, HeatSink is translated as "radiador", a word that means in Spanish, both the element to cool a vehicle and the heater that generates heat in Spanish. And just for a moment, I forgot that in English I should use the right word, heatsink.
Again sorry.
I would take a Battlemaster over the Gargoyle, a bit slower but far more weapons and far harder to literally disarm.
In tabletop, it’s a really good mech imo- it’s fast, heavily armored, and best of all. Cheap. All it has to do is play the magicians hand and keep the OPFOR distracted with its big 80 status. while other lighter mechs do the heavy hitting. That’s how you play this thing.
If you want it to take on a more active role, configs A-C make it more hard hitting, and up the price to what clan aussaults should be.
I'd rather have almost anything else tbh. Again, it's not terrible, I just think the BV is better spent on a real heavy 9/10 times.
@@BigRed40TECH A fair point. I’ve used it a couple times and so have this other dude. We swear by it, but I agree if I have the BV(probably 7000+) I’ll spend it literally on anything else.
Clan Wolf~ (howls)
The Man o' War is a case of "penny-wise, pound-foolish" design plan. We get a light assault that can run fast, shoot accurately at range, and ferry Elementals better than a Dasher. And...that's about it. The mobility and armor score well to me, but then we get to the armament, which has it outgunned by probably every IS Heavy mech of 65+ tons, let alone similar Clan ranges, and I see why it's not popular. (The power plant is heavier than bug mechs!) It's not that the mech really sucks, but like you demonstrate, there's so many other mechs that can do the same thing for better value. And all the arm-limited weaponry, which given the amount of arm hits that can crop up is limiting. Lose an arm, lose the battle, or get carried by one's resentful star/lance mates. However, I could see Clan Sea Fox refurbing some secondhand models and then selling them to Periphery powers that like the mobility and crit-seeking ability against opponents that have a plethora of lighter machines that would be at a disadvantage against a Man o' War in a shootout.
I would argue that - acknowledging the genuine limitations of the chassis - the real biggest problem with the Gargoyle is that the "showroom" Prime configuration is a weak anti-tank/aerospace specialist. Many of the alternate configurations - in particular the A, C and D - are legitimately formidable.
That said, the design would be more forgivable if it used the tonnage saved by fitting Endo-steel to max the armour, even if it didn't have any additional pod space.
As an aside, I really dislike that this is a Clan Wolf machine - it's absurd that they would produce it alongside the Timby and the Gargoyle would make far more sense as a rival Ghost Bear design. The Ghost Bears seem to really like fast assaults and most Gargoyle configurations are well set up to transport Elementals.
Agreed this mech screams ghost bear. This mech is excellent elemental carrier and does decent damage. Alot varients are cheaper than timber wolf.
But have you considered that the Gargoyle is winning?
@@BigRed40TECH winning? You mean like fight between timber wolf and gargoyle?
It looks like something you'd put with battle armors to escort vehicles. It's a really heavy support mech, I think.
30:08 once you're done with the OmnimrchsI hope you do the inner sphere refits and Clan second lines mechs. I would love to see your take on the Phoenix Hawk IIC and shadowhawk IIC.
3055 is coming after 3050.
@@BigRed40TECH what other new mechs would you be doing in 3050, aside from the Clans? most of the inner spheres are just upgrades of existing designs you already did.
@@lexington476 I did most of the 3050 mechs already iirc.
@@BigRed40TECH you did. So just the OG omins left in 3050?
@@lexington476 yes
How I would change the Man O' War so that it is not just a humanoid Timber Wolf stuck with worse armor, price tag, and free pod tonnage: give it endo-steel and MASC.
Yes, it will still have far worse pod space than its iconic cousin, but an 80-tonner going 100kph in a pinch would actually feel truly unique and an even bigger terror to IS forces encountering it for the first time, compared to its canonical iteration.
Right up until it pulls a groin myomer and goes down in a heap.
I'd rather have a Phoenix Hawk IIC :\
Even if it gets literally disarmed, I still like the thing because it's an Assault that moves faster that 64 KM/H. If it had jump jets, this thing could have been a little bit better for a few moments.
Just get a Phoenix Hawk IIC. lol
@@BigRed40TECH Fair enough, at least the PHIIC is a lot more survivable.
@@enricopaolocoronado2511 More gunned, more mobile... more survivable. lol
@@BigRed40TECH True. It honestly surprises me that none of the Clans just made an OmniMech version of the PHIIC and called it a day.
This design doesn't HAVE to be bad. I just opened Skunkworks and made a variant with an ER PPC and SRM6 in each arm, kept the ER small in the CT, and 2 ER Mediums in each side torso. It can slam both ER PPCs at range and run, or fire everything else and run while remaining heat neutral, and with room to breath in the latter firing pattern.
Quite frankly, ballistics just are NOT weight efficient for 40 and 80 tonners in general, in my experience. Energy builds, however, tend to shine on them IMO. As for 40 tonners...it seems to be a sweet spot for potential LAM designs. I actually made a decent little Raven LAM that uses Clantech lasers (we got access to them in my current campaign) that'd make a fantastic tank hunter and scout.
25:48 Piece of Blake be with you Demi-precenter.
Gargoyle K go BONK
It’s like an inverse Urbanmech. Cheep on BV but expensive as hell in C-bills. The Prime configuration always baffled me, why mount all these low heat weapons on a mech with 16 heat sinks? There’s running cold and then there’s the Gargoyle Prime.
All Hail Clan Wolf xD
Even during The invasion era, I never cared for this mech. Your video was far better than the gargoyle deserves. Well done sir.
Ngl, this mech can be very meme-y in MWO though (I'm talking 15 heavy small lazers kind of memes xD)
You know, first battletech game was mw2 and little kid me saw this thing, got confused why it was there, and never looked at it again. So guessing average mech pilot experience when choosing a mech. That K though, that sounds legit scary.
I admit I've always liked the Gargoyle/Man-o-War, mostly because I had the trading card.
(Thank you for the effort you put into this video!)
Wow, clanners being a bunch of arrogant weirdos who think they can technology their way out of a fundamental design flaw rather than just admiring it’s a bad idea. Color me shock!!! Insert sarcasm here. All that being said, I’d love to take a Man O War K out for a spin and test out it’s axe.
The last part: Underwear at the top. *CLAPS* :D
I just took a quote from a guy who almost wins as much as Clan Wolf. Seemed to make sense. XD
Ahhh this damn thing. Infesting the RATs for Hell's Horses, and I'm just like "But why tho?"
The Garg is for leading your Light Star of long range, low BV Dezgra kilers.
This, a Kitfox, a Cougar, an Ice Ferret, and a Myst Lynx give you good damage, range, armor, and speed for the cost while keeping the value low ebough that your opponent wont be fielding a whole company.
I feel the Foxes are going to make a XXL version
No sign of it so far.
In MWO, by mixing and matching omnipods you can get a Garg with a ludicrous 16 or 18 energy hardpoints. Stack it up with as many small pulse and er micro lasers as possible and you got a meme machine that can alpha strike for some 60+ pin point accurate damage every second with little heat issues at point blank range.
There are few Clan Omnimechs with problems that cannot be solved by replacing all of their current weaponry by as many ER Medium Lasers and double heat sinks as possible. By doing so, you up Gargoyle's armor by 1,5 tons, mount 10 ERMLs and 10 DHSs, which means it can potentially deal 70 points of damage per turn while remaining completely heat neutral, even while running. And it's STILL cheaper in BV than the Mad Cat.
To be fair, this is more about Clan ERMLs being broken as hell than the 'mech itself, but the point stands.
That's the most cynical way to play this game. lol
@@BigRed40TECH it sure is, which is also the reason why I mostly stick to canonical designs. It's way too easy to forget about the fun of doing your best with whatever flawed machines you have and just make fully optimized and stupidly OP mechs which all play and feel exactly the same.
@@Szoki86 Yea, we don't do custom mechs at my table.
How many matches have you last to medium laser vomit?
The Gargoyle has potential... And a few of the configurations came close to making it cool... Aside from the melee variant that is amazing!
I think I just like the weight class. Over the years I've used Chargers so many times. I guess it speaks to me on some visceral level.
I even designed an Inner Sphere version. Similar to the Battle Cobra. Something the Inner Sphere could produce and then put their own gear onto. It works as an Inner Sphere knockoff, I think.
Here's mine: keep in mind it's ALL IS tech. It's also not an Omni.
80 tons
400 XL
Endo Steel
13 Double Heat Sinks
15 tons standard armor
CASE in each side torso
Targeting Computer
RA: Light PPC, Streak SRM-6, 1 ton ammo
LA: Light PPC, Streak SRM-6, 1 ton ammo
CT: 2 x ER ML
LT: Improved C3
RT: Targeting Computer
Battle Value: 1809
PV: 54
C-Bills: just under 22 million
Well, i think what if in prime configuration just replace LBX5 with Er PPC and add 4 jump jets
Makes more sense to just go 75ton Charger
I feel like the Gargoyle and the Executioner only existed to fill weight class requirements for the lore.
The Executioner is at least interesting imo.
@Big Red 40k mostly because that's what Vlad piloted during Phelans Trial of Position 😆 🤣 😂. I take your point though.
note: the woodsman doesnt have 2 successors, but three: the timberwolf, the Gargoyle, and the Naga, which i a true oddity among clans as an artillery platform, something the clans usually refuse to use due to them not conforming to zellbrigen (as both indirect fire platforms and units needing a spotter); pretty fitting as a clan wolf creation since they view zellbrigen as a guideline, not something that should impede victory.
the Naga may even be the closest woodsman descendent, being literally a woodsman modified to fit the arrow launchers
And yeah about the gargoyle, about the only good thing that can be said about it (at least the prime variant) on the tabletop is that it is dirt cheap for a clan mech, and may be one of the best deals the clans get as far as amount of armor for the cost goes; basically a way to add more durability to the clan force for a low-ish cost... sure its armor is comparable to a lighter timberwolf, but ist also almost half the price to deploy as a timberwolf
The Naga's a bit different. It uses the chassis, but I wouldn't consider it a true successor. It's just an ARROW IV platform.
The Gargoyle Prime might work in environments with no atmosphere for heat sinking
Good vidoe, I remeber looking at the mech when the 3050 tech readout came out and thinking interesting and never went back to it. Now I am thinking if they had only used MASC and
down rated the engine.
That's called a Woodsman then XD
I really hate the prime configuration. It doesn't need those low heat, low damage weapons when the chassis has 16 double heat sinks. Just makes no sense. Granted that the concept is flawed from the start, but there is so much more you can do if they use those monster clan ppc like on the A configuration.
Awesome: 320 is enough, right?
Gargoyle: shut up freebirth
If you redesigned the Gargoyle with four less double HS and used Endo Steel, increasing the armor by a ton or two and using the weight saved from switching internal structures, would you have a decent design? I may have to try out the Gargoyle II that way and see for myself...
Sure, but that just means take a Phoenix Hawk IIC lol
@@BigRed40TECH But then you lose the flexibility of using an OmniMech, quineg?
@@kitirena_koneko If a non-omni gives the same outcome, what was the point?
@@jong2359 Flexibility and ease of repair. Prior to battle, I can swap Omni weapons packages around to fit what my scouts report about battlefield conditions--for example, if I'm fighting in a hot desert, I can add additional heat sinks and swap out ammo-based weapons for energy-based to avoid ammo cookoffs. After battle, with Omni pods I can get my damaged Mechs up and running quickly in an extended campaign instead of having to fix the least-damaged first and hope for the best. Granted, in a one-off battle, it really doesn't matter, does it now?
I literally got this mech last night in rouge tech and built it like a charger….
An executioners dopey lil cousin
To be perfectly honest, the Gargoyle looks like the bastard love child of a Warhammer and a Victor, and it was not a healthy relationship.
Ah, yes...the Clan's non main character mech...piloted by all the nobodies that have to fill up a star...
I love the Gargoyle-A. I think it gets such a bad rap because of primary confit. Anemic was a great description. 80 tons is an in efficient weight class, so I think gargoyle (except P) is decent
I think the A is fine, but I'd rather just have a TimberWolf D.
11:10 look at the shell dropping from the left arm, imagine being the poor tech who has to explain to a very angry pilot that a shell casing from the auto cannon detonated one of the missiles and blew the arm off.
I wouldn't compare this to the Charger - it's clearly more useful than that unit. The Gargoyle is more like a non-S Banshee - not useless but very inefficient due to a singular focus on above-average speed.
Yeah the Man O War mounts less pod space, a full ton less armor, while costing costs 4 million C-Bills more the already horrendously expensive Mad Cat in pursuit of maintaining a 5/8 tempo... but drawing parallels to that 4 hour monstrosity of a movie is just being mean.
To be honest, it's mechs like the Gargoyle that BattleTech has survived for so long. If the series were filled with perfectly balanced and min-maxed machines, it would be an unspeakably dull game with no room for creative designs or tactics. But the flaws of mechs like the Charger and Gargoyle allow players to truly experiment and seek other methods to bring life into these designs.
I for one, found that replacing the Gargoyle's weapons with a pair of Large Pulse Lasers, heat sinks, and extra tons of armor in the MW2 video game allowed me to bull rush through everything thrown against me. Missions that didn't rely on wiping out enemy forces could easily be handled in that manner.
And that's the true charm of BattleTech, I'd take these flawed machines over the overly-perfect Late-era SLDF mechs anytime.
There is a different between min-maxed and just really strange to justify.
The Gargoyle costs more than a Timber Wolf, and is functionally worse in every way, and that's as an in-universe production cost.
It's not the end of the world it exists, but it doesn't do much until the Ilclan era itself, to justify its existence.
@@BigRed40TECH That's what I'm saying is good for the series. The series is made stronger by the addition of mechs like the Gargoyle, since it gives character to the universe through the machines.
Gargoyles, Assassins, Clints, Threshers, Quickdraws, Grasshoppers, Executioners, Kit Foxes; they are just as if not more important than Timber Wolves, Summoners, Atlas, and Vultures.
@@metalmadness5851 I'd argue that most of those mechs bring something unique that you listed off.
But the Gargoyle doesn't. That's where my problem lies with it. Even the Clint is relatively "unique" in some ways. The Gargoyle is not. It's a fat heavy, and one that loses to most heavies, and costs more. That's not entirely the case with the Quickdraw, Clint, or even Executioner.
@@BigRed40TECH Not bringing anything can be a virtue.
Look at the Bombardier, for instance. There is no conceivable reason to buy a bootleg Archer that cost almost double the original, but by it's very existence, the Bombardier adds to the understanding of how the Star League was degrading from the inside.
The Gargoyle's continued use, despite it's shortcomings and inability to stand out against the Timber Wolf and Naga (both OmniMechs that were developed in the same year), speaks volumes of Clan military procurement.
Clan Wolf didn't use the Naga, despite being an excellent support mech, because it didn't gel with the Zellbringen, as the warriors saw it. The Gargoyle entered service, since it did. The Clanners love close up, high intensity combat, blasting each other to pieces at nearly point-blank range. And that's what the Gargoyle does, albiet not well.
It's true that a Hunchback IIC might be a better choice for that role, but the Gargoyle was a new, expensive omnimech that Clan Wolf had just built. Regardless of it's lackluster results, that's more than enough for most Clanners to pour all their money into the design, just for the pride of having done so.
That kind of wasteful spending, all for brownie points and personal pride, was one of the key factors in the failure of the Clan Invasion and way of life. The fact that many different Clans also dumped a huge effort and costs into getting themselves this OmniMech, that no doubt a skilled pilot can do well in but not an average one, shows that that specific flaw permeated even the most frugal Clans as well.
It's also telling that the Gargoyle pretty much disappears after Tukkayid as a common frontline assault mech. It's still there, getting upgrades, but it's days as a proud OmniMech are gone, since the Clans were forced to actually spend their money with some care.
It's at that point that the Gargoyle gets many of it's "better" variants, but only one new variant by the Dark Age, meaning even Clan Hell's Horses is losing interest in the machine.
For a mech that probably was only made to fill out the early Clan Mech TROs, that's pretty good.
Understand I'm not defending the Gargoyle's performance, without heavy modifications, but I think mechs like it can still serve a purpose outside of the game itself (a good choice to handicap Clan Assault Stars in a RPG campaign!)
The one Mech I somehow always switch with the Executioner in my mind, lol.
I haven’t used this one before 🤔
The new look for the Gargoyle looks good, yet i'm still not exactly a fan of it.
About the mech itself, it supposedly is one of the oldest Clan OmniMechs, which can be understood as an excuse for its weaknesses.
I agree withyou thought, embracing the ER mediums is the best choice for this mech.
Put 3 in each arm, plus two double heat sinks, three more ER mediums in the torso and the rest filled with more DHS, maybe even some JJs...
It's not that old. lol
Had to stop the video when the Alexander the Great qoute came up. If you think the original release was mediocre then you need to watch the extended directors cut. The movie is elevated to a modern classic in that version, it’s that much better… please find it and watch it.
I own the extended director's cut. It is better. But I don't know if it's *that* much better. I like the film regardless, but I don't think the scenes blend together in a way to elevate the film to the status of a "good" movie.
There was a missed opportunity with this omnimech. There should have been configuration that made it a fast LRM boat. 20 tons of pod space is enough to pack both arms with 2 standard LRM 15 launchers supplied by 3 tons of ammo each to make it deadly in the short term. It's speed Could allow it to withdraw intact for ammo reloading. This configuration paired with Swarm Missile ammunition would be especially deadly to enemy formations, however, goes against standard clan doctrine and battle philosophy. Still, it could stand out even among its peers, and that .5 ton of pod space can house a CT or Head mounted ER Small Laser for shooting birds.
It’s a walking pepper mill.
Another great video! I don't mind suboptimal mechs, love me some Hellbringer, but this one isn't it.
I've had alot luck with this mech. I end up preferring it over the timber wolf.
Not a big fan of the stock loadouts for the Gargoyle, but the Kin Wolf in MW:O is an underrated monster.