46:10 Hey Red, as a certified Tau enjoyer I can let you know that the whole "the tau use mind control to force people to work with them" thing is actually in-universe imperial propaganda. In one of the Tau novels there's a section from the perspective of an inquisitor who is infiltrating them and she sees a Tau ethereal demand a commander fall on his sword as penance for a massive catastrophe in battle and he does it. The inquisitor (WHO IS A PSYKER WITH MIND CONTROL POWERS) automatically assumes that the Ethereals use mind control to subjugate the rest of the Tau. This is extremely obvious projection on the part of the inquisitor when you actually read it, but people took that scene 100% literally and ran with it and now everyone just assumes that the Tau actually do use mind control.
As Bricky once said: Warhammer books are evenly distributed between 1/3 the greatest thing you've ever read, 1/3 perfectly serviceable, and 1/3 utter dogshit
In that 1/3 contains some of the worst purple prose, writing, and creepy 'oh god this writer is a creep' ever considering how he describes the main character wanting to sleep with the xenomorph. Emperor save us from Ian Watson
"There are two kinds of 40k books: “Space Man Shoot Bad Guys With Big Gun” and “Meditations on the dehumanizing nature of war and the futility of mutual kindness in the face of suffocating oppression and predjudice by Askaurazoth the Child Flenser”"
Also: "Space man shoot bad guys with big gun" vs "Meditations on the dehumanizing nature of war and the futility of mutual kindness in the face of suffocating oppression and prejudice by Askaurazoth the Child Flenser"
That exactly how I got into Warhammer fantasy through total war, with its real life inspired fantasy counterparts like the empire of man and the Tomb Kings
I played the first space marine game when I was a freshman in high school now 12 or so years later and I’ve spent probably many thousands of dollars on minis and books and I have a flag for the Tanith First and Only over my bed
I started playing 40k in the 90s in high school because I got into painting minus through Hero Quest, started buying Eldar minus i liked, and figured I might as well play the game... stopped playing when I got to college in 98 and they changed the rule set
… I think Cain might argue with you on the definition of “his best life.” But yes, please. One of my favorite characters, and a really interesting look into the mind of somebody who grew up under brainwashy turbo theofascism. Because he’s not sincerely religious in the way more conventional 40k characters are, but so many little red flags slip into his thoughts that let you know just how deep the indoctrination goes.
@@HeatherSchrivener-el2mx that's my favorite part about Cain. He is a very reasonable, entirely relatable person with realistic fears and a rational desire to not die. But he considers himself a coward because he was brought up on a society that teaches everyone that any fear or self preservation is unforgiveable cowardice
We have shields, gold accented art nouveau gothic style - Blue "I'm intrigued" Our star ships are built like cathedrals - Blue "Nice" They have domes -Blue "sold"
it is genuinely incredibly interesting how differently Titus comes off based on if you played the first game or not, in the first game he was very reasonable as far as space marines went! friendly determined, basically how you want him to be in the second game, he's this way because of a profound betrayal from those who were supposed to be his allies, and lots of people who played space marine 1 find themselves basically seeing things from his perspective in 2. But not you guys! you're in the shoes of his comrades who want to know literally anything about their new CO but Titus just won't give them the time of day for seemingly no reason! it's great!
I can't stress enough that Blue should play Space Marine 1. It would be absolutely wonderful to see these two using it as an example of dramatic irony for Space Marine 2's plot
This, 100% this. Nevermind getting to see why Leandros being a chaplain is such a low blow, it also means Blue's missing out on lines like "But I'm finished with you, ork."
@@chaosvolt For the chaplain business, that was a sort of punishment for Leandros as well, since the process of becoming a chaplain is not easy or safe, and basically meant calgar was putting Leandros's money where his mouth was, "Fine, you want to be a suspicious fuck who rats us out to the inquisition? Take fifty years of silence as a chaplain in training while we try to kill you in combat." The fact leandros survives and is accepted by his brothers meant he's at least done a good job at redeeming himself in the eyes of leadership. It has been like 200 years after all.
I don't know why, but for some reason this sparked the image of the "war in heaven" play from The Infinite and The Divine in my mind. I'd imagine the average viewership would actually be somewhat similarly spread as in the book; a lot of people enjoying their time completely forgetting how the decades go by, and the other half entirely tuned out and doing whatever else they can do, because the goddamn play just takes AGES to actually perform
@@fullparagon7468 thats the must funny thing: the way youtubers speak of the algorithm of youtube is 1:1 how Adeptus Mechanicus would speak of Machine Spirit. You could replace "be sure to leave a like to boost the algorithm" with "commence Ritual of Like to appease Machine Spirit of the Blessed Platform"
This sums up exactly why I enjoyed "If the Emperor had TTS" - the gargantuan mass of lore is one hell of a mountain to climb, whereas the snarky speedrun through the basic plot points does such a good job of adding context to the universe
Unfortunately, thanks to GW being, well, GW, TTS ended...which means that with TTS' popularity several people will always view certain characters without the development that they got which actually saved several characters in things. Cato Sicarious has had a LOT of character development recently with things that make him less of a narcicistic jackass like TTS used and more someone who has been heavily broken to the point I've felt extremely sorry for him with everything going on.
Will say that’s more about poking fun at old lore, if it continued I’m sure it would’ve touched on the newer stuff and how various characters have changed but GW had to pull a GW moment 🗿
Okay something I honestly adore about this kind of story-telling that Space Marine 2 did. if the audience goes in with no prior knowledge, then they wind up knowing what the characters know. If the audience goes in with prior knowledge, then suddenly they can pick up on things that characters wouldn't know, but they would. I had this with Titus in the Necron tombs, I started noticing Necrontyr markings all over the walls, and figured out there was going to be a necron tombworld like a good 20 odd minutes before it was actually revealed.
put another way: if the player has no knowledge of the setting they go in with similar knowledge to Titus's squadmates, but if they are familiar with the setting they go in with similar knowledge to Titus himself.
I was playing with 2 friends I walked into the first room with the markings and was like 😮are we about to fight Necrons, that the players with me (who had already beaten the story) were like "Where did that come from?" I said "Look at the walls!"
Gotta say, the whole "Cease bombardment. Project Aurora present. Strategic value: Absolute" message really gives off the same vibes as Mother's instructions in Alien.
It is also a nod to previous Space Marine: in the intro, there's discussion about nuking place where game will take place, cut short by: "Denied, strategic value: absolute"
i think 40k and especially space marines are super well suited for a "no lore, just vibes"-presentation. the Astartes animation also did that incredibly well.
The Eagle! The best part doesn't show up on most of the depictions of it. But there is only an eye on the left-hand head because its the one that looks to the past. The right-hand head, the one that looks into the future, is blindfolded because the Imperium cannot bring itself to look to the future
It's a very cool bit absolutely, but I think you're missing a little of the texture. It's not just blindfolded, it's blind, sometimes I've seen it with a little X denoting a scarred, empty socket. And the Imperium isn't unwilling to consider the future, it's just an aphorism that nobody CAN see, or know the future (except Eldar Farseers I guess). There was another depiction of it I saw once in which the double headed eagle was healthy on the "past" side, but decaying, emaciated to the point of being skeletal on the "future" side, foretelling Dire Times for the Imperium.
Necromunda's take on the aquilla is also notable, as it's been stylized to the point where it barely looks like a bird, and just depicts moreso a human skull. It still retains the two bird heads, but the wings form essentially the place below the eye sockets and the feet are stylized into the upper teeth present as well. I dunno if it's moreso a system icon used for Necromunda 3rd Ed or if it's an in-universe symbol, but still a neat take that there is nothing happy about this empire.
an even better example of what you guys were talking about before the end, is when Chairon tells Titus 'I was a boy on Calth when the Word Bearers attacked. i came to know the mark of Chaos well' if you don't know the lore you're like 'oh so he's got some childhood trauma, these Word Bearers must be another chaos faction. the battle of Calth must be a big deal. neat. that explains everything i need to know but if you do know the lore that's a really fun nugget of infromation that opens up a huge can of 'HOLY EMPEROR BROTHER YOU WERE BORN TEN THOUSAND YEARS AGO?!' you get to know that the little bit of info you got for Chairon is a huge deal being at the sight of one of the most infamous battles of the lore. the writing for the game was very underrated
53:06 ah yes, the source of Guiliman's Ultradespression. Being the Primarch whose entire thing is efficiency and well functioning government comes back after 10000 years, sees the absolutely nightmare that is the Imperium, and then is told by the corpse of his dad "fix this"
Then he goes, all these people have been suffering for generations and still keep fighting even if the whole point of it should die. Its the idea of it that keeps them going. And this changes the perspective of guillimans depression. He knows its fucked up but if they havent given up then im not going to give up. It really changed my view on gman, and why he is a badass
@@fuzzyhair321 tbf you should really have figured the G-man was a badass when he gets vented into space, looses his helmet and being exposed to the vacuum simply pisses him off Robot Gorillaman was always a badass, he would just prefer to be building an enormous model railway or organising fleet logistics so you very rarely see him in his "I'm so angry I'm going to beat you to death with your own limbs" mode
@@dean_l33 tbf the problem isn't really Matt wards stuff about the Ultramarines. It was just the lack of attention to everyone else. All space marine chapters are GWs golden boys. If during the MW era there was as much gushing writing about the salamanders, blood angels, space wolf's etc nobody would really be that upset at the UM lovefest
@Fordmister I was around during the matt ward era of pappa smurf. Ultramarines weren't cool until that book. That was an awesome scene I wish it was animated
As a Necron enjoyer who cares more about the Necron faction than I do about WH40K, the setting, I also felt deep pain after being shown a Tomb World without getting to fight any Necron units.
After reading the infinite and the divine and half way through twice dead king: ruin. Necrons are SO much cooler than 90% of the community understands. Especially the thing that red said that the necrons both are unwavering in their superiority while also seeing a certain kinship with the IoM and how they're going to inevitably fall like the necrons did.
I think part of the reason they’re so slept on is bc back in the day they didn’t really have any lore beyond being spooky terminator skeletons and a lot of older fans haven’t bothered to look into their new stuff which is all p great
They're too OP. Their weapons melts you with one shot, and they can rebuild themselves. There is a reason why Commissar Cain is scared of the Necrons, even after fighting against every faction in the galaxy.
It would be funny if there was a Kingdom Hearts game that explicitly mentions the weird length of its titles of non-numbered games, but that also doubles as the final entry in Kingdom Hearts forever. Something that acknowledges its own trends and feels weird about it, which would tonally be the end of Kingdom Hearts, the series that can get away from talking about retrieving hearts from double darkness.
"There's nothing going on except war." -> Imperial Nobles on Pleasure Worlds chuckling to one another as they drink tea and talk about the newest luxuries they have purchased.
@@TheGallantDraketo be fair so are the space marines technically there’s roughly estimated to be only be about a million or so of them which is extremely small in the grand scheme of things due to the gargantuan population of the imperium
Blue, your Imperial Drip is INCREDIBLE. I can clearly see the limited palette you had to work with, but you really aced some schemes that evoke the setting and some styles of marine armour even past the Ultramarines, while being totally original!
I will forever spite the person on the internet who invented the term "camp/corny/cringe" as a culture to dismiss whenever a bombastic story doesn't try to be "realistic" in tone.
Yeah, everyone in-world is taking it seriously because to them it _is_ serious. They're trying to survive in a cruel uncaring galaxy that has time and time again, over the course of millennia upon millennia, beaten them down and chewed them up, and only through sheer willpower and spite did they manage to crawl up from the dirt to give one defiant middle finger against the horrors of the world. Jokes during downtime, sure. Maybe even during combat to cope and alleviate stress. But characters in-world must take the situation seriously, for it is a dire situation.
1:04:10 I do exactly that when I play my Imperial Guard against my friends who play Xenos armies: “I shoot that big brainy one!” “You mean the neurotyrant?” “Yes? How should I know I’m just some imperial citizen!” It helps that i can’t keep any of the unit names straight past my own faction…
Is it really so surprising that this approach works? Most of us are pretty invested in our world, and it's not like we're born with the 14,000,000,000 years of context on how it got this way; heck, none of us will ever learn more than a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a percent of its lore.
The last convo reminds me of one of my favorite quotes in the Dawn of War 40k games. "An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded" What a wonderful setting
I think the games shows 40K's _scifi_ comic roots - good scifi short stories and comics _do not_ hold your hand, and take pleasure in show-not-tell of the wildest concepts possible so the now-I-understand is earned and satisfying.
9:10 - I desperately need Red and Blue to read / listen to the Infinite and the Divine. Also Prophets of the Waaagh. That’s some good solid lore in the funniest way possible.
@@gokbay3057 very much. I'm about halfway through the video and I totally get what they mean now. I DO really like the lore. But I think part of the reason is because it feels optional. I didn't have to read a bunch of lore to get into it in the first place. Kinda loving this analysis cause it's putting into words something I felt but couldn't immediately articulate.
@@gokbay3057There's a reason the tagline only tells you three things, two of which are about the vibes: It's gonna be grim, even the humor is gonna be dark, and there's gonna be a whole lot of war
I know nothing about Warhammer outside of this video and even before red explained what the line "You honor your home world's memory." I got the vibes of "oh, the home world is dead." So yeah that's pretty great writing.
I've always found it funny that the Imperium's biggest symbol is the two-headed aquilla, when kairos fateweaver exists. Like, surely using this extremely similar symbol to tzeench's greatest daemon will have zero consequences, right? Edit: The two factions with unshakably immaculate vibes in my mind are the Mechanicum and the Necrons. The Orks are my favortites more so for their top-teir chaotic himbo energy.
The best thing, in my opinion, about 40k lore can be summed up in the phrase “Everything is canon, nothing is true.” 40k accomplished the impressive feat of creating what amounts to a realistic simulation of a history, right down to differing accounts of events and people.
One little detail I utterly love is the Ordo Redactus. They're a small branch of the Inquisition who use disinformation campaigns to make the history of the Imperium as confusing and contradictory as possible in-universe, to deny insight to the enemies of humanity.
I think you both would LOVE the Ciaphas Cain book and story series. Ciaphas is a coward who knows how much of the Imperium foundation is total b.s.. He's always disobeying orders and ignoring duty to ensure his survival, but since that's more sensible than the way anything else is done in the Imperium, it enables him to keep saving the day over and over. Since he's such a great success this only gets him thrust into even more dangerous situations that he fixes trying to run out the back door.
The thing is, he's not even a coward. He just lives in a society where any self-preservation is seen as unforgivable cowardice. By any other human cultural standards Cain is incrediblely brave, but because of the society he is raised in he sees himself as a coward
@@AegixDrakanI will say he isn’t actually a coward so don’t go in expecting that, it’s more he has incredible imposter syndrome and views himself as a huge coward (He also has a pretty strong sense of self-preservation so that amplified the whole viewing himself as a coward thing)
"The tabletop side has become more inaccesible" This hit me like a hammer. I have 8 armies, some of them nearing 10k points (for non 40k players, thats 5 times the size of a regular army, and the regular army can comfortably fit a few dozen infantry and around half a dozen tanks/monsters), and I've basically sworn off playing this year, because EVERY GODDAMN TIME i wanna play, the rules have changed. I have to rewrite my army lists, learn new rules, and find out which nitpicky edge cases have changed a word or two to make a mechanic entirely different. IT IS MADNESS I TELL YOU. And it's not enough to just learn your army. OH NO. The missions are so damn complicated that in a lot of my later games we just ignored them and made our own, easier battle objectives. All of this may not be a problem if you have a group of friends that can agree on "let's use this edition of the game and that's that", but changing the mindset of following all the latest updates of the group is gonna be near impossible. If you wanna do tabletop wargaming, don't even try Warhammer. Play ONE PAGE RULES. Same vibes as warhammer, way better accesibility.
One Page Rules is eh, play 3rd edition 40k. All the rulebooks are pretty easily able to find for free online and chapter approved 2001 has vehicle creation rules for futureproofing.
"The tabletop side has become more inaccessible" As someone who didn't fall into GW's target demographic of "middle-class, white, early teen", I've _always_ found the game to be inaccessible due to the company's pricing structure and I got into the hobby in the mid-90's
@@dungeonsanddobbers2683 3D printing bro. Switch from that plastic crack to the resin one, at least then you won't have to sacrifice your first born along with an arm every time you want to start a new army
The rules change constantly because GW can't design the game for shit. They keep releasing broken rulebooks which they have to keep fixing over and over because they just can't get it right. None of it would be necessary if they just wrote good rules to begin with. Still, this is preferable to "sorry, 80% of your faction is unplayable until we get around to making a new codex for them 3 editions down the line", in my opinion.
Blue's entry point not only being the Imperium of Man, but the Smurfs? The Emperor provides. If Blue pursues further, I'm sure like so many he will vibe more with a different Chapter, if not a different faction altogether. But, we will always see you as a fellow Blueberry, Brother.
He is unabashedly a fan of Greco-Roman stuff and that's mostly the aesthetic that the Ultramarines have ontop of the generic space marine Knight Sthick so odds are good they might stay his favourite
you say that as if the ultramarines aren't very explicitly the poster boy introduction and face of the entire franchise to anyone who isn't already into it.
A real fun detail about the first post-epilogue resurrection cutscene is that Titus has huge circular scars around his neck and shoulders. Even if you know nothing about the Rubicon Primaris or whatever, you can immediately tell that the guy has been *through* it. Literally taken apart and sown back together.
Only 10 minutes in and thought I'd chime in on what red was saying about the tabletop game: Space Marine 2 captures how the tabletop game SHOULD make you feel (and made me feel for a long time when I played before moving on due to how the game is managed). Vibes are just the core of all the warhammers and I'm glad this game does that sooooo right and is getting people interested in one of the most enjoyable fictional universes! Explore the books and the video games, cause you can get so much out of them that the tabletop doesn't give to many!
This makes me happy. Blue geeking out over HERALDRY (the shield) and Gothic Minimalism (the cathedral/ship) just shows how a game can hook someone based on how their personal interests are represented. In the case of Blue it's architecture and the ongoing Pope Wars' effect on aesthetics, technology and bureaucracy!
Another game to check out in 40k is Rogue Trader. It was my first experience with 40k, and even though it's a CRPG it does really well at giving access to the minimum level of background knowledge to understand what is happening, and allows the strength of its storytelling and gameplay to let it hold its own.
And it’s even better about showcasing the absurdity of the Imperium’s administrative nightmare, like the companion quest that’s literally just waiting in line to fill out paperwork. Fortunately you’re the second most privileged class in the Imperium, so you can cut through the red tape by threatening to shoot people.
Another fantastic aspect of this "doesn't assume you get it" way of writing is it makes people want to get it more than if it explained it to them right away. I am a big Warhammer nerd, have been for years, and I've seen so many new people join the community basically going "Hey, I played Space Marine 2, this thing sounded cool so I googled it and now I've been on the wiki for 17 hours help." and I honestly couldn't be happier! The joy of Warhammer when I started out was that there was so much I could just pick a direction, start digging, and not reach the bottom for ages as it just opened up new rabbit holes along the way. I'm so glad more people are joining the hobby in this way
This is a fascinating detail diatribe to me because red and blue have talked before about how having one of them as an audience stand-in can be really helpful but i genuinely dont know Which of them that's supposed to be. Red's the one with the Ancient Knowledge but Blue's the one with the Thesis Statement. It's fun!
I like Warhammer because I'm a fan of metal music first, and Warhammer delivers on what I imagine the lore behind all the insane album cover art has to be like while capturing the vibes of the best of that album art. And yes, I do know about Bolt Thrower and their relationship to 40k, love that band.
>most notoriously convoluted IP in modern media Happy as a fan to see Red and Blue covering 40k Stuff, but just wait until they hear about The Elder Scrolls or Bionicle.
Nah, Elder Scrolls has a good chunk of stuff going on, but it’s not on the “50 years of elaborate nonsense about some 20 major factions, half of which contradicts itself, written by dozens of writers with different visions, all of which is ultimately motivated to move a product and as such is open to sweeping retcons at the drop of a hat” level of nonsense 40k has.
@@nerdyvids1 I would say it is different flavors of convoluted, the insanity of Warhammer 40k mainly lies in its size, scale and age by this point. Elder Scrolls is skooma-enriched metaphysical tangents and Bionicle... honestly Bionicle is just its own thing. Maybe the guys writing it had a spiritual experience after stepping on a 1x2 lego brick.
Isyander & Koda are great for beginners, Majorkill is great for a more lighthearted delivery but requires a little more baseline knowledge so you can know when he’s joking, Arch and Lueten for when you want a serious deep dive and Wolf Lord Rho for something of a middle road. There are more but this is way to long.
Baldermort is also good he writes little fanstory's for the beginning of his videos and then explains/quotes the lore. (Personal problem with arch is his take that the imperium is not fascist, which is just wrong and has troubling implications for me)
It's amazing how Space Marine 2 got so many of my friends, some not even into anything REMOTELY fantasy (because let's be honest, 40k is NOT sci-fi it is whacky space fantasy) get absolutely engrossed by it. Asking lore questions, wondering how they can get into the hobby, and finding what would be their favorite faction, ALL WITHOUT SOMEONE GOING POWERPOINT PRESENTATION MODE AT 3 AM!
Tbh, I think most people get into 40k because of the vibes, and from there slowly slide down the pipeline of lore/games/hobbies. Also for Red, the observation of how most characters are somewhat flattened due to the constant battle is accurate for most imperium characters. If you want to see some more depth to the characters, the Horus Heresy stories tend to have a bit more depth, since at that point the Imperium was basically on the cusp of 'victory' so many characters had hobbies and lives to look forward to when the conquest was done, which was then torn from them when the heresy happened
Initially 40k was grimdark that didn't take itself seriously. The early game had a lot of dark, and sometimes just silly, humour. As it's gone on the game and the players have taken it more seriously but sometimes the old humour or silliness shows up. It can alleviate the relentless of the grimdark.
"It started with the shields." - Blue As a kitbash/painter in the miniature hobby who is also a huge shield nerd, there just aren't enough shields. To rectify this my longest creative project is designing bio-organic shield's for Tyranids inspired the various Rainbow 6 Seige shield characters. Also I'm working with another educator on designing a world building class for college students. I'm stealing that last slide for our next meeting.
One of my favorite things about 40K as a franchise is the memes created by the community. It gives me a look into how its fanbase reacts to the setting of 40K. Stuff like "Skull for the Skull Throne" and "HERESY!" are well known, but then there's more specific stuff like perceiving Necrons as a group of people who just wanna sleep, or summing up The Horus Heresy story as "traitor with daddy issues". The banter is surprisingly fun and not as hostile as I expected. Edit: Oh, and how could I forget my favorite meme. The Mechanicus faction views toasters as holy.
As someone whos been into warhammer for ten years now, god im old. SM2 does a really good job at throwing you chest deep into lore before pulling you up and going "hey, you got a taste, you can do more if you want" patting you on the head and tell you to go kill bugs
@dean_l33 If you legitimately think the daemonculaba is a good starting point then you must be one of those toxic people who doesn't want new people to join the fandom.
@dean_l33 i wouldnt throw them at that, id say throw something like the short novel fifteen hours or rebel winter. Or if you want just huck em at the occulus Imperia channel
One of my favorite youtube series gets an episode about one of my favorite franchises? All I need now is for them to read Wheel of Time and talk about it and I think i could die happy.
That's honestly a pretty good way to describe the actual describe 40k in general. I love my beloved Blood Angels because Vampire super soldiers. Basic bitch but there are no mitigating lore factor to this equation. There is good lore, even amongst a faction like Orks. But vibes carry this setting, sure the Imperium is the worst but they make a cool cathedral on the back of a giant robot.
Lots of good media dissection here, plenty that I needed to hear lol. Thanks, gang! I'm tinkering away at a lore-heavy RPG (figuring out what's going on is half the point), and "Don't exposit lore, just do vibes" is real good advice.
Blue and Red are painfully accurate about the costs of getting into tabletop. The standard rule book is 40-50 USD, you'll need 1-2 books which cost about that much as well with information about your army, a starter army that runs the gambit of 160-200 USD. Paints, brushes, glues and other material for your guys to get on the table will set you back another 100. In other words, maybe a 500 dollar starting investment which you must now assemble and paint on your own time.
At 10:22 I could of sworn blue said "You can always find WAR if your wanting it" and I was like "that makes sense", then in a whim I rewound and listend closer, realizing that he actually said "You can always find MORE if your wanting it".
It is a very simple game, but done in such a simple way it somehow loops around to complex and awesome. Like the space marine himself you don't need to know everything to kill everything and do your job. Also love the customization options as there was even talk about editing visor colors showing just how detailed some fans are in their joy of making 'your dudes' in this game. As a lot of good War hammer games helps Gove the feeling that you can male your own personal group or thing.
This entirw episode starts with blue saying he cares not for lore. Red just burting at the seams with giving foundational information for all the things that blue is talking about. I love this, and I would love to see yall do detailed diatribes on warhammer novels or games, talking about the massive variety in world building they do.
Lol! Red brought up that Blue was using the word "yappin" a lot and I was like "yeah, Milo got that one in my brain, too" right before Blue answered about the Filip Zeiba video. Man, I wish there was more overlap between this channel and Miniminuteman. That would be a fun collab.
I bet Milo would vibe really nice on an OSPod episode, maybe another Oops all History one, or another Oops all publishing/we made books episode when the Veneziad is launched and shipping
I love to see Warhammer getting more popular and being covered different UA-camrs / public figures. I want it to eventually be up there with start trek / Star Wars ( although not watered down to do so. Glad you enjoyed the game yall 😊
45:44 my favorite thing about this whole Tau mind control thing is that it's based on what Red Scare propagandists in the US literally told people was happening under Communism, especially in Asian countries like China and Korea, particularly inspired by racist Asian stereotypes.
One thing I like about Space Marine 2 is the fact that I don’t have to read 6 dissertations on 40k lore to figure out what’s going on. The walking bricks with god complexes are fighting the hungry space cockroaches. That’s all I need to know. I know what Titus went through in the first game so I know why he acts different, but it ultimately doesn’t matter, all that matters is how I can get my chainsword into that tyranid’s spinal column as quickly as possible.
I got into 40k because of how bonkers and convoluted the lore is, stayed for how nihilistically funny the setting is, and am a fan because I (like Blue) really dig the vibes! Praise the Omnissiah!
Just stay away from the minis. If you MUST get into the minis, buy used, off-brand, or 3D prints. Take it from someone who's been in this game for almost 20 years: GW's pricing model should not be encouraged.
I've always loved y'all's content, but more and more I find that between the two of you I received a greater and greater sense of frame and language to understand the impact and importance storytelling as it exists in my life. Running games of exalted vampire the Masquerade mage the Ascension and werewolf the Apocalypse in my high school and college days we're at the time for the most part extemporaneous expressions facilitating my engagement with close friends. The experiences were super impactful and formative, and you to help me to understand some of whys and wherefores. Superthanks!
I'm very excited for a couple years from now when Blue does a detail diatribe on why Ultramarines are awesome and deserve their spot as poster boys and uses deep cut insults for every sub faction of every race to do it. It's either that or the black templars
What I'm hearing is this game is a masterclass in what I always say about storytelling: tell your audience everything they need to know, but tell them only what they *need* to know.
Going to bat for my blue boys here, the mind control thing is still technically unconfirmed. Basically every time it comes up, even in the rulebooks, it's always framed as "Imperial scholars think this is how they do it." They reference dissections of Tau that show that it's something the Ethereals might be capable of, but it's never outright stated whether that's the truth or it's just some guy trying to justify upstanding Imperial citizens leaving their 5x5 square of living space, daily ration of ground up dead guy, and constant fear of getting shot in the face for not praying hard enough for a system that treats them like actual living beings.
It’s always irritated me how GW has gone about making the Tau darker. They could have really leaned into underhanded tactics and real life strategies of imperialism, since they’re still an awful expansionist empire by modern standards. But no, gotta make them Imperium Lite because that’s easier.
In fire warrior an Ethereal litteraly hijacks a young Tau, and gives him enough speed to pick up a plasma pistol and shoot a Space Marine almost at point blank range. They definetly mind control the rest of the Tau.
In one of the Farsight-Books an Ethereal orders a Watercast-Member that found something out she shouldnt have to kill herself and she immidieatly does. So...
Commander Farsight fully seceded from the empire when all his ethereals got killed by khorne demons, because he realized they were affecting his mind. So it is confirmed.
I'd always kind of figured that it was more of a both thing there, especially considering some of the other things that the main Tau have been up to at various points. Farsight is one of the few "Good" groups...Celestial Lions being another one. Possibly the Lamenters, but they're even more of a whipping boy than the Celestial Lions are...though at least with the Lions even the Dark Angels and Space Wolves decided to deal with a few Inquisitors in their own "special" ways over that shit later on.
This is one of the reasons I love WH fantasy, especially the total war games, you don't need to know any of the deep lore, its just "vampire pirates with shipwreck mecha" or "Dinosaurs riding bigger laser wielding dinosaurs"
Also Blue, you might be interested in reading/listening to brothers of the snake. The names and settings in that book are all greek mythology throwbacks that you'll probably enjoy
📌 BIG HOLIDAY PIN SALE LETS GOOOOOOOO 📌
Https://overlysarcastic.shop/
So glad they’re back! I’ve really been wanting to get Artemis and Apollo!
yall where not very smart not to look beyond the single player aspect. the multiplayer and coop have very great digital miniature painting
I like how you throw out "hyperfixation" as if it's a totally normal thing that everyone experiences and I couldn't agree more.
Another banger right here. Love the vid. Now I want to see what red looks like irl
46:10 Hey Red, as a certified Tau enjoyer I can let you know that the whole "the tau use mind control to force people to work with them" thing is actually in-universe imperial propaganda. In one of the Tau novels there's a section from the perspective of an inquisitor who is infiltrating them and she sees a Tau ethereal demand a commander fall on his sword as penance for a massive catastrophe in battle and he does it. The inquisitor (WHO IS A PSYKER WITH MIND CONTROL POWERS) automatically assumes that the Ethereals use mind control to subjugate the rest of the Tau. This is extremely obvious projection on the part of the inquisitor when you actually read it, but people took that scene 100% literally and ran with it and now everyone just assumes that the Tau actually do use mind control.
As Bricky once said: Warhammer books are evenly distributed between 1/3 the greatest thing you've ever read, 1/3 perfectly serviceable, and 1/3 utter dogshit
In that 1/3 contains some of the worst purple prose, writing, and creepy 'oh god this writer is a creep' ever considering how he describes the main character wanting to sleep with the xenomorph.
Emperor save us from Ian Watson
@@tenkiforecast Who knows Ian this might be my next movie.
"There are two kinds of 40k books: “Space Man Shoot Bad Guys With Big Gun” and “Meditations on the dehumanizing nature of war and the futility of mutual kindness in the face of suffocating oppression and predjudice by Askaurazoth the Child Flenser”"
Also: "Space man shoot bad guys with big gun" vs "Meditations on the dehumanizing nature of war and the futility of mutual kindness in the face of suffocating oppression and prejudice by Askaurazoth the Child Flenser"
Tragic truth, and important sidenote. Eisenhorn, Ravenor and Bequin automatically fill like, HALF of that top tier. And Gaunt locks down the rest.
"Sold on the aesthetic" is the way most people first get into Warhammer. It's traditional.
See a mini
What is that?
6 months later I have a full 2K Army. I'm not happy at it but it is what happened.
That exactly how I got into Warhammer fantasy through total war, with its real life inspired fantasy counterparts like the empire of man and the Tomb Kings
Real
I played the first space marine game when I was a freshman in high school now 12 or so years later and I’ve spent probably many thousands of dollars on minis and books and I have a flag for the Tanith First and Only over my bed
I started playing 40k in the 90s in high school because I got into painting minus through Hero Quest, started buying Eldar minus i liked, and figured I might as well play the game... stopped playing when I got to college in 98 and they changed the rule set
This is a prelude to the eventual Ciaphas Cain detail diatribe.
Yes!
Cain. The one man in a whole titular Imperium of them living his best life.
… I think Cain might argue with you on the definition of “his best life.”
But yes, please. One of my favorite characters, and a really interesting look into the mind of somebody who grew up under brainwashy turbo theofascism. Because he’s not sincerely religious in the way more conventional 40k characters are, but so many little red flags slip into his thoughts that let you know just how deep the indoctrination goes.
@@HeatherSchrivener-el2mx like his fear and revultion at the Tau humans
@@HeatherSchrivener-el2mx that's my favorite part about Cain. He is a very reasonable, entirely relatable person with realistic fears and a rational desire to not die. But he considers himself a coward because he was brought up on a society that teaches everyone that any fear or self preservation is unforgiveable cowardice
We have shields, gold accented art nouveau gothic style - Blue "I'm intrigued"
Our star ships are built like cathedrals - Blue "Nice"
They have domes -Blue "sold"
We use cyborg babies instead of email.
THE DOMESSS
Red: *Gasp* I see green lighting… WHERE’S MY BOYS!!!
XD
it is genuinely incredibly interesting how differently Titus comes off based on if you played the first game or not, in the first game he was very reasonable as far as space marines went! friendly determined, basically how you want him to be in the second game, he's this way because of a profound betrayal from those who were supposed to be his allies, and lots of people who played space marine 1 find themselves basically seeing things from his perspective in 2. But not you guys! you're in the shoes of his comrades who want to know literally anything about their new CO but Titus just won't give them the time of day for seemingly no reason! it's great!
The reason Titus doesn't say anything is both his Captain and Chaplain told him to keep his mouth shut about the whole business.
I can't stress enough that Blue should play Space Marine 1. It would be absolutely wonderful to see these two using it as an example of dramatic irony for Space Marine 2's plot
This, 100% this. Nevermind getting to see why Leandros being a chaplain is such a low blow, it also means Blue's missing out on lines like "But I'm finished with you, ork."
This kinda reminds me of what Red said about Terminator 2 in her Trope Talk on plot twists.
@@chaosvolt For the chaplain business, that was a sort of punishment for Leandros as well, since the process of becoming a chaplain is not easy or safe, and basically meant calgar was putting Leandros's money where his mouth was, "Fine, you want to be a suspicious fuck who rats us out to the inquisition? Take fifty years of silence as a chaplain in training while we try to kill you in combat." The fact leandros survives and is accepted by his brothers meant he's at least done a good job at redeeming himself in the eyes of leadership.
It has been like 200 years after all.
I would love if as an April fool’s joke, or just because, Red did a mythology video on the Eldar pantheon from in-universe
"Long ago, Khaine punched someone. This was universally regarded as a bad move."
I know basically nothing about Warhammer, but that sounds FASCINATING.
Hmmm... I could well believe Harlequins have performances that are similar to miscellaneous myths.
@@sev1120
"Then Asuryan closed the door, locked it, and was subsequently cannibalized by his new roommate."
I don't know why, but for some reason this sparked the image of the "war in heaven" play from The Infinite and The Divine in my mind.
I'd imagine the average viewership would actually be somewhat similarly spread as in the book; a lot of people enjoying their time completely forgetting how the decades go by, and the other half entirely tuned out and doing whatever else they can do, because the goddamn play just takes AGES to actually perform
In the grim darkness of the far future there is no war, only vibes.
*slanessh pops up, hearing their name*
You fool, the vibes _are_ the war.
Lore… lore frequently changes…
When you think about it, isn't war just a prolonged series of high intensity vibe checks?
As someone who knows barely anything about warhammer 40k I'm excited to learn more than I ever needed to know about warhammer 40k
Adeptus Ridiculous, Baldermort, and Leutin got you covered.
@@ryanlanca9927 Don't forget a out Oculus Imperia
@@ryanlanca9927with the amount of…. Suspect 40k creators out there, these three are gems
@@ryanlanca9927Don't forget Isyander & Koda
Brickys every faction explained is a great intro
Praise the Omnissiah! For the UA-cam upload has worked!
Let us recite the Litany of Views, that the Machine Spirit of the Algorithm may bless us.
I have clicked the holy subscribe button thrice and have rung the Bell of Notification. Blessed be the machine spirits!
It feels like something you might experience if you're in IT and the computers are really shitty "It's loading! Everyone pray!"
@@fullparagon7468 thats the must funny thing: the way youtubers speak of the algorithm of youtube is 1:1 how Adeptus Mechanicus would speak of Machine Spirit.
You could replace "be sure to leave a like to boost the algorithm" with "commence Ritual of Like to appease Machine Spirit of the Blessed Platform"
This sums up exactly why I enjoyed "If the Emperor had TTS" - the gargantuan mass of lore is one hell of a mountain to climb, whereas the snarky speedrun through the basic plot points does such a good job of adding context to the universe
Ah, I see that you, too, are a person of culture!
Unfortunately, thanks to GW being, well, GW, TTS ended...which means that with TTS' popularity several people will always view certain characters without the development that they got which actually saved several characters in things. Cato Sicarious has had a LOT of character development recently with things that make him less of a narcicistic jackass like TTS used and more someone who has been heavily broken to the point I've felt extremely sorry for him with everything going on.
Will say that’s more about poking fun at old lore, if it continued I’m sure it would’ve touched on the newer stuff and how various characters have changed but GW had to pull a GW moment 🗿
Context, we have the war in heaven. That is the myth, with two species who existed during that time too and they cant even remember the details
TTS got me into Warhammer. Emperor Bless that team, they're great at their jobs.
Give that man a copy of The Infinite And The Divine. Historians love The Infinite And The Divine.
This can only end badly :)
Trazyn, do Orks. . .breath?
@@excursor4296 Apparently they don't need to
@@excursor4296...
They have lungs
@@paulenan9636 “That is NOT what I ask”
Okay something I honestly adore about this kind of story-telling that Space Marine 2 did.
if the audience goes in with no prior knowledge, then they wind up knowing what the characters know.
If the audience goes in with prior knowledge, then suddenly they can pick up on things that characters wouldn't know, but they would.
I had this with Titus in the Necron tombs, I started noticing Necrontyr markings all over the walls, and figured out there was going to be a necron tombworld like a good 20 odd minutes before it was actually revealed.
put another way: if the player has no knowledge of the setting they go in with similar knowledge to Titus's squadmates, but if they are familiar with the setting they go in with similar knowledge to Titus himself.
@@burnin8able that's a brilliant approach to it.
I was playing with 2 friends I walked into the first room with the markings and was like 😮are we about to fight Necrons, that the players with me (who had already beaten the story) were like "Where did that come from?" I said "Look at the walls!"
Blue's Stance on the Lore is that of only the most upstanding of Imperial citizens. After all, Ignorance is a virtue, curiosity the path to damnation.
Truly. "An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded."
@@drizzmatec*Dawn of War Imperial Guard theme plays*
Red: “I could tell you about the lore-“
Blue: *points at slide* “nah I’m good”
Red: “Okay, but I must say ONE THING”
Love that
Gotta say, the whole "Cease bombardment. Project Aurora present. Strategic value: Absolute" message really gives off the same vibes as Mother's instructions in Alien.
It is also a nod to previous Space Marine: in the intro, there's discussion about nuking place where game will take place, cut short by: "Denied, strategic value: absolute"
they did a similar thing in the first game when the orks sacked a forge world that produces Titans
58:48 "A chair is a piece of furniture with a raised surface supported by legs, commonly used to seat a single person."
I read this as if Encyclopedia from Disco Elysium was saying it to me
That's a table.
Clearly a horse, given enough vigor.
Blue playing SMII:
I do not know who I am.
I do not know why I am here.
All I know is that I must kill.
"I don't care about the lore. Only the vibes."
In 40k speech: "Seek not understanding where Awe will suffice."
i think 40k and especially space marines are super well suited for a "no lore, just vibes"-presentation. the Astartes animation also did that incredibly well.
Damn I had forgotten about Astartes, so fucking good
Astartes absolutely meets the bar for an intro into 40K, much like what this video is about! Very, very good indeed.
Games Workshop themselves even leveraged that with the Horus Heresy trailer.
11:40 "I'm just here in my little fishing boat watching the shadows of great leviathans pass underneath me" - Red
Low key a cold line.
@@coleortiz7521son of the forest reference…
The Eagle! The best part doesn't show up on most of the depictions of it. But there is only an eye on the left-hand head because its the one that looks to the past. The right-hand head, the one that looks into the future, is blindfolded because the Imperium cannot bring itself to look to the future
...doesn't Tzeench have a lord of change with a same sorta thing?
Kairos Fateweaver
He can't see the present only the future and the past.
It's a very cool bit absolutely, but I think you're missing a little of the texture. It's not just blindfolded, it's blind, sometimes I've seen it with a little X denoting a scarred, empty socket. And the Imperium isn't unwilling to consider the future, it's just an aphorism that nobody CAN see, or know the future (except Eldar Farseers I guess).
There was another depiction of it I saw once in which the double headed eagle was healthy on the "past" side, but decaying, emaciated to the point of being skeletal on the "future" side, foretelling Dire Times for the Imperium.
Necromunda's take on the aquilla is also notable, as it's been stylized to the point where it barely looks like a bird, and just depicts moreso a human skull. It still retains the two bird heads, but the wings form essentially the place below the eye sockets and the feet are stylized into the upper teeth present as well. I dunno if it's moreso a system icon used for Necromunda 3rd Ed or if it's an in-universe symbol, but still a neat take that there is nothing happy about this empire.
I thought it was more the uniting of mars and terra. As the emperor's standard is the double headed eagle with lightning bolts. The other the machine
"they've got little bolts in their head" AAAAAAAARGHH MUST. RESIST. LORE-DUMP!!!!!
Service studs. Silver ones for 50, gold ones for 100 years, iirc.
@@gokbay3057Depending on the chapter, of course
What is a chapter, one may ask. Well, pull a chair... 😂@@SonofSethoitae
@vranlekhavran8294 We're going deeper, look out!
@@vranlekhavran8294 So billions of years ago…
an even better example of what you guys were talking about before the end, is when Chairon tells Titus 'I was a boy on Calth when the Word Bearers attacked. i came to know the mark of Chaos well' if you don't know the lore you're like 'oh so he's got some childhood trauma, these Word Bearers must be another chaos faction. the battle of Calth must be a big deal. neat. that explains everything i need to know
but if you do know the lore that's a really fun nugget of infromation that opens up a huge can of 'HOLY EMPEROR BROTHER YOU WERE BORN TEN THOUSAND YEARS AGO?!'
you get to know that the little bit of info you got for Chairon is a huge deal being at the sight of one of the most infamous battles of the lore. the writing for the game was very underrated
Nice video finished it in 25 seconds
OSP Detail Diatribe Any% Speedrun
Fast forward trick is cheese, should be banned smh
@@Isvoor nah bro just built different
Petition for Red to comment on "The Infinite and the Divine" book by Robert Rath
Oh Emperor yes, i wanna see both Red's and Blue's thoughts on my favorite buddy cop adventure
This
I was not expecting THIS to be the first on-channel mention that Aurora was being physically published
WHAT!
53:06 ah yes, the source of Guiliman's Ultradespression. Being the Primarch whose entire thing is efficiency and well functioning government comes back after 10000 years, sees the absolutely nightmare that is the Imperium, and then is told by the corpse of his dad "fix this"
Then he goes, all these people have been suffering for generations and still keep fighting even if the whole point of it should die. Its the idea of it that keeps them going. And this changes the perspective of guillimans depression. He knows its fucked up but if they havent given up then im not going to give up.
It really changed my view on gman, and why he is a badass
@@fuzzyhair321 tbf you should really have figured the G-man was a badass when he gets vented into space, looses his helmet and being exposed to the vacuum simply pisses him off
Robot Gorillaman was always a badass, he would just prefer to be building an enormous model railway or organising fleet logistics so you very rarely see him in his "I'm so angry I'm going to beat you to death with your own limbs" mode
@@Fordmister It's a shame that the ultramarines as a whole still suffer from the Matt Ward era even after so long
@@dean_l33 tbf the problem isn't really Matt wards stuff about the Ultramarines. It was just the lack of attention to everyone else. All space marine chapters are GWs golden boys. If during the MW era there was as much gushing writing about the salamanders, blood angels, space wolf's etc nobody would really be that upset at the UM lovefest
@Fordmister I was around during the matt ward era of pappa smurf. Ultramarines weren't cool until that book. That was an awesome scene I wish it was animated
As a Necron enjoyer who cares more about the Necron faction than I do about WH40K, the setting, I also felt deep pain after being shown a Tomb World without getting to fight any Necron units.
After reading the infinite and the divine and half way through twice dead king: ruin. Necrons are SO much cooler than 90% of the community understands. Especially the thing that red said that the necrons both are unwavering in their superiority while also seeing a certain kinship with the IoM and how they're going to inevitably fall like the necrons did.
Games workshop really trying to tease necrons players
I think part of the reason they’re so slept on is bc back in the day they didn’t really have any lore beyond being spooky terminator skeletons and a lot of older fans haven’t bothered to look into their new stuff which is all p great
@@corbingovers7559 They have plays that last 20 years, and there's an extra encore act that's entirely optional which lasts 10
They're too OP. Their weapons melts you with one shot, and they can rebuild themselves. There is a reason why Commissar Cain is scared of the Necrons, even after fighting against every faction in the galaxy.
"Longest goddamn title in existence."
You haven't heard of light novel titles?
Is It Okay If I Become an Author of a Light Novel Series With an Unnecessarily Long and Descriptive Title to Try and Seduce the Local Bookish Girl?
Those don't count, they're synopses hiding in the title field to get around inadequate web design.
My first thought was Kingdom Hearts 0.2: Birth by Sleep - A Fragmentary Passage. Not even sure if that's the longest one
@@saschabaer3327 took me a second to recognize you were done saying the title after the period XD
It would be funny if there was a Kingdom Hearts game that explicitly mentions the weird length of its titles of non-numbered games, but that also doubles as the final entry in Kingdom Hearts forever. Something that acknowledges its own trends and feels weird about it, which would tonally be the end of Kingdom Hearts, the series that can get away from talking about retrieving hearts from double darkness.
Finally a video about Warhammer from non-warhammer based channel that I can watch and not feel like I missed half the semester
Every time I heard mention of the Warhammer Lore Bible...
"The Warhammer Lore Bible approves of this course of action"
"Space book says yes"
It's more like the constitution that is treated like the bible
"There's nothing going on except war." -> Imperial Nobles on Pleasure Worlds chuckling to one another as they drink tea and talk about the newest luxuries they have purchased.
Statistically speaking, those are extreme outliers and can be safely ignored.
Ah, yes, the super duper 0.01%, the most relatable kind of people
Give them a few decades and they'll either fall to slaanesh, get screwed over by genestealers, or have to deal with an orc invasion.
@@ALJ9000 As opposed to the 0.000000001% that is the space marine fighting as much as trans-humanly possible
@@TheGallantDraketo be fair so are the space marines technically there’s roughly estimated to be only be about a million or so of them which is extremely small in the grand scheme of things due to the gargantuan population of the imperium
Blue, your Imperial Drip is INCREDIBLE. I can clearly see the limited palette you had to work with, but you really aced some schemes that evoke the setting and some styles of marine armour even past the Ultramarines, while being totally original!
Blue: I'd discuss thematic concepts about the other factions, but I don't fully understand them.
Red: *Vibrates Excitedly*
I can't believe someone had a criticism of this game that amounted to, "this game takes itself too seriously." People need to appreciate sincerity.
I will forever spite the person on the internet who invented the term "camp/corny/cringe" as a culture to dismiss whenever a bombastic story doesn't try to be "realistic" in tone.
40k taking itself too seriously is half the fun of it! 40k not taking itself seriously at all is the other half.
Yeah, everyone in-world is taking it seriously because to them it _is_ serious. They're trying to survive in a cruel uncaring galaxy that has time and time again, over the course of millennia upon millennia, beaten them down and chewed them up, and only through sheer willpower and spite did they manage to crawl up from the dirt to give one defiant middle finger against the horrors of the world.
Jokes during downtime, sure. Maybe even during combat to cope and alleviate stress. But characters in-world must take the situation seriously, for it is a dire situation.
It's when people take it too seriously that issues come up.
@@PhoenixScientist its when people take it to serious that they want to recreate the Imperium and roleplay as space nasis
1:04:10 I do exactly that when I play my Imperial Guard against my friends who play Xenos armies:
“I shoot that big brainy one!”
“You mean the neurotyrant?”
“Yes? How should I know I’m just some imperial citizen!”
It helps that i can’t keep any of the unit names straight past my own faction…
It would be heracy to know too much about zenos.
"the big one with brains!"
"... the neurotyrant?"
"HERETIC! YOU KNOW THE NAMES OF THE XENOS!"
Is it really so surprising that this approach works? Most of us are pretty invested in our world, and it's not like we're born with the 14,000,000,000 years of context on how it got this way; heck, none of us will ever learn more than a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a percent of its lore.
My way of explaining all of Warhammer lore is this:
"In the beginning, there were magic space frogs"
And not ellaborating.
The last convo reminds me of one of my favorite quotes in the Dawn of War 40k games. "An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded"
What a wonderful setting
"Strategic value Absolute" is a callback to the first game and I love it 😂
I think the games shows 40K's _scifi_ comic roots - good scifi short stories and comics _do not_ hold your hand, and take pleasure in show-not-tell of the wildest concepts possible so the now-I-understand is earned and satisfying.
9:10 - I desperately need Red and Blue to read / listen to the Infinite and the Divine.
Also Prophets of the Waaagh.
That’s some good solid lore in the funniest way possible.
"no lore only vibes?"
Got no idea what this is gonna be like.
Pitchforks on standby but I’m listening.
He kind of has a point with that title ngl. Even with multiple encyclopedias of lore warhammer still remains at the core a very vibes based setting.
@@gokbay3057 very much. I'm about halfway through the video and I totally get what they mean now. I DO really like the lore. But I think part of the reason is because it feels optional. I didn't have to read a bunch of lore to get into it in the first place. Kinda loving this analysis cause it's putting into words something I felt but couldn't immediately articulate.
@@gokbay3057There's a reason the tagline only tells you three things, two of which are about the vibes: It's gonna be grim, even the humor is gonna be dark, and there's gonna be a whole lot of war
But I have a good feeling about this
I know nothing about Warhammer outside of this video and even before red explained what the line "You honor your home world's memory." I got the vibes of "oh, the home world is dead." So yeah that's pretty great writing.
Blue being a fellow googledebunker makes so much sense.
Yeees! So glad there is overlap
Hope Milo can come chill on an OSPod episode i bet hed vibe real good with Red Blue & Indigo
I remember Milo mentioned wanting to do a trip to Italy - boy do we have the dome tour guide for you!
You know what, I respect the meta play of going for the "blessed is the mind too small for doubt" lore and refusing to learn.
Warhammer 40k: The proof that Paul from Dune is bad for humanity, actually.
Isn't that just Dune?
That should be just Dune but people do generally suck at divining the intending meaning of a dense book that looks like a savior rising up.
I've always found it funny that the Imperium's biggest symbol is the two-headed aquilla, when kairos fateweaver exists. Like, surely using this extremely similar symbol to tzeench's greatest daemon will have zero consequences, right?
Edit: The two factions with unshakably immaculate vibes in my mind are the Mechanicum and the Necrons. The Orks are my favortites more so for their top-teir chaotic himbo energy.
The best thing, in my opinion, about 40k lore can be summed up in the phrase “Everything is canon, nothing is true.” 40k accomplished the impressive feat of creating what amounts to a realistic simulation of a history, right down to differing accounts of events and people.
One little detail I utterly love is the Ordo Redactus. They're a small branch of the Inquisition who use disinformation campaigns to make the history of the Imperium as confusing and contradictory as possible in-universe, to deny insight to the enemies of humanity.
I think you both would LOVE the Ciaphas Cain book and story series. Ciaphas is a coward who knows how much of the Imperium foundation is total b.s.. He's always disobeying orders and ignoring duty to ensure his survival, but since that's more sensible than the way anything else is done in the Imperium, it enables him to keep saving the day over and over. Since he's such a great success this only gets him thrust into even more dangerous situations that he fixes trying to run out the back door.
Unfortunately the back door has a purple ork who was just about to sneak in and killing it to preserve his own life earns him ANOTHER medal.
The thing is, he's not even a coward. He just lives in a society where any self-preservation is seen as unforgivable cowardice. By any other human cultural standards Cain is incrediblely brave, but because of the society he is raised in he sees himself as a coward
They're not the sort of book you read back to back, the plot beats tend to repeat themselves. They are funny, but you need a few months between them.
Okay I LOVE that concept, I may add that to the reading list. XD
@@AegixDrakanI will say he isn’t actually a coward so don’t go in expecting that, it’s more he has incredible imposter syndrome and views himself as a huge coward
(He also has a pretty strong sense of self-preservation so that amplified the whole viewing himself as a coward thing)
"The tabletop side has become more inaccesible" This hit me like a hammer. I have 8 armies, some of them nearing 10k points (for non 40k players, thats 5 times the size of a regular army, and the regular army can comfortably fit a few dozen infantry and around half a dozen tanks/monsters), and I've basically sworn off playing this year, because EVERY GODDAMN TIME i wanna play, the rules have changed. I have to rewrite my army lists, learn new rules, and find out which nitpicky edge cases have changed a word or two to make a mechanic entirely different. IT IS MADNESS I TELL YOU.
And it's not enough to just learn your army. OH NO. The missions are so damn complicated that in a lot of my later games we just ignored them and made our own, easier battle objectives. All of this may not be a problem if you have a group of friends that can agree on "let's use this edition of the game and that's that", but changing the mindset of following all the latest updates of the group is gonna be near impossible. If you wanna do tabletop wargaming, don't even try Warhammer. Play ONE PAGE RULES. Same vibes as warhammer, way better accesibility.
One Page Rules is eh, play 3rd edition 40k. All the rulebooks are pretty easily able to find for free online and chapter approved 2001 has vehicle creation rules for futureproofing.
"The tabletop side has become more inaccessible"
As someone who didn't fall into GW's target demographic of "middle-class, white, early teen", I've _always_ found the game to be inaccessible due to the company's pricing structure and I got into the hobby in the mid-90's
@@dungeonsanddobbers2683 3D printing bro. Switch from that plastic crack to the resin one, at least then you won't have to sacrifice your first born along with an arm every time you want to start a new army
Or Horus Heresy, though that's more specific and doesn't have the fun aliens. At least it doesn't dramatically change every couple of months
The rules change constantly because GW can't design the game for shit. They keep releasing broken rulebooks which they have to keep fixing over and over because they just can't get it right. None of it would be necessary if they just wrote good rules to begin with. Still, this is preferable to "sorry, 80% of your faction is unplayable until we get around to making a new codex for them 3 editions down the line", in my opinion.
Blue's entry point not only being the Imperium of Man, but the Smurfs? The Emperor provides.
If Blue pursues further, I'm sure like so many he will vibe more with a different Chapter, if not a different faction altogether. But, we will always see you as a fellow Blueberry, Brother.
Someone needs to send him a starter set and paint kit just to watch the ensuing mayhem there...
He is unabashedly a fan of Greco-Roman stuff and that's mostly the aesthetic that the Ultramarines have ontop of the generic space marine Knight Sthick so odds are good they might stay his favourite
you say that as if the ultramarines aren't very explicitly the poster boy introduction and face of the entire franchise to anyone who isn't already into it.
Damn I like your name
A real fun detail about the first post-epilogue resurrection cutscene is that Titus has huge circular scars around his neck and shoulders. Even if you know nothing about the Rubicon Primaris or whatever, you can immediately tell that the guy has been *through* it. Literally taken apart and sown back together.
Only 10 minutes in and thought I'd chime in on what red was saying about the tabletop game:
Space Marine 2 captures how the tabletop game SHOULD make you feel (and made me feel for a long time when I played before moving on due to how the game is managed).
Vibes are just the core of all the warhammers and I'm glad this game does that sooooo right and is getting people interested in one of the most enjoyable fictional universes! Explore the books and the video games, cause you can get so much out of them that the tabletop doesn't give to many!
The title perfectly describes how I interact with Warhammer minis; no lore only vibes 😂
35:54 Yes! I knew Blue would be a fan of Milo! Next step is a collab!
Red even left a comment on Milo’s video of the Green Sahara as well, would love a crossover between them and Milo
Yessss!
This makes me happy. Blue geeking out over HERALDRY (the shield) and Gothic Minimalism (the cathedral/ship) just shows how a game can hook someone based on how their personal interests are represented. In the case of Blue it's architecture and the ongoing Pope Wars' effect on aesthetics, technology and bureaucracy!
Another game to check out in 40k is Rogue Trader. It was my first experience with 40k, and even though it's a CRPG it does really well at giving access to the minimum level of background knowledge to understand what is happening, and allows the strength of its storytelling and gameplay to let it hold its own.
And it’s even better about showcasing the absurdity of the Imperium’s administrative nightmare, like the companion quest that’s literally just waiting in line to fill out paperwork. Fortunately you’re the second most privileged class in the Imperium, so you can cut through the red tape by threatening to shoot people.
Another fantastic aspect of this "doesn't assume you get it" way of writing is it makes people want to get it more than if it explained it to them right away. I am a big Warhammer nerd, have been for years, and I've seen so many new people join the community basically going "Hey, I played Space Marine 2, this thing sounded cool so I googled it and now I've been on the wiki for 17 hours help." and I honestly couldn't be happier! The joy of Warhammer when I started out was that there was so much I could just pick a direction, start digging, and not reach the bottom for ages as it just opened up new rabbit holes along the way. I'm so glad more people are joining the hobby in this way
This is a fascinating detail diatribe to me because red and blue have talked before about how having one of them as an audience stand-in can be really helpful but i genuinely dont know Which of them that's supposed to be. Red's the one with the Ancient Knowledge but Blue's the one with the Thesis Statement. It's fun!
I like Warhammer because I'm a fan of metal music first, and Warhammer delivers on what I imagine the lore behind all the insane album cover art has to be like while capturing the vibes of the best of that album art.
And yes, I do know about Bolt Thrower and their relationship to 40k, love that band.
I recommend giving Chainsword a listen! Their album Blightmarch is really solid stuff and has a few 40k inspired tracks.
>most notoriously convoluted IP in modern media
Happy as a fan to see Red and Blue covering 40k Stuff, but just wait until they hear about The Elder Scrolls or Bionicle.
Blazblue: you poor, poor child.
(If you want, I can also fit in Ben 10, Kirby and Guilty Gear, but you've likely lost your patience)
Nah, Elder Scrolls has a good chunk of stuff going on, but it’s not on the “50 years of elaborate nonsense about some 20 major factions, half of which contradicts itself, written by dozens of writers with different visions, all of which is ultimately motivated to move a product and as such is open to sweeping retcons at the drop of a hat” level of nonsense 40k has.
@@leithaziz2716 You have my curiosity and my attention, do tell me more please.
Sven van der Planks nearly finished a documentary series on Battletech. It's over a day long.
@@nerdyvids1 I would say it is different flavors of convoluted, the insanity of Warhammer 40k mainly lies in its size, scale and age by this point. Elder Scrolls is skooma-enriched metaphysical tangents and Bionicle... honestly Bionicle is just its own thing. Maybe the guys writing it had a spiritual experience after stepping on a 1x2 lego brick.
I’ve wanted to learn more about Warhammer 40k lore. But I think I’m gonna leave this video learning nothing but why the vibes of 40k is neat.
Adeptus ridiculous is a good mix of lore and vibes
Plenty of good lore masters on UA-cam!
@thehuntersburrow7453 they went nuts over the inclusion of Female Custodes tho lol
Maybe go for Bruva Alfabusa or MyNameIsByf
Isyander & Koda are great for beginners, Majorkill is great for a more lighthearted delivery but requires a little more baseline knowledge so you can know when he’s joking, Arch and Lueten for when you want a serious deep dive and Wolf Lord Rho for something of a middle road. There are more but this is way to long.
Baldermort is also good he writes little fanstory's for the beginning of his videos and then explains/quotes the lore.
(Personal problem with arch is his take that the imperium is not fascist, which is just wrong and has troubling implications for me)
It's amazing how Space Marine 2 got so many of my friends, some not even into anything REMOTELY fantasy (because let's be honest, 40k is NOT sci-fi it is whacky space fantasy) get absolutely engrossed by it. Asking lore questions, wondering how they can get into the hobby, and finding what would be their favorite faction, ALL WITHOUT SOMEONE GOING POWERPOINT PRESENTATION MODE AT 3 AM!
Tbh, I think most people get into 40k because of the vibes, and from there slowly slide down the pipeline of lore/games/hobbies. Also for Red, the observation of how most characters are somewhat flattened due to the constant battle is accurate for most imperium characters. If you want to see some more depth to the characters, the Horus Heresy stories tend to have a bit more depth, since at that point the Imperium was basically on the cusp of 'victory' so many characters had hobbies and lives to look forward to when the conquest was done, which was then torn from them when the heresy happened
Also the Necrons are hilarious, 'The Infinite and the Divine' is one of the best books if you haven't read it.
Red: Hates grimdark
Also Red: Loves WH40k
Red should try Warhammer Age of Sigmar or Fantasy/Old World then less grimdark more dark fantasy
I wonder. Does Darksiders count as Grimdark, or mainly Dark Fantasy?
Initially 40k was grimdark that didn't take itself seriously. The early game had a lot of dark, and sometimes just silly, humour.
As it's gone on the game and the players have taken it more seriously but sometimes the old humour or silliness shows up. It can alleviate the relentless of the grimdark.
It has Orcs.
40K Orcs are the Answer.
@@leithaziz2716 *Orks, ya grot.
"It started with the shields." - Blue
As a kitbash/painter in the miniature hobby who is also a huge shield nerd, there just aren't enough shields. To rectify this my longest creative project is designing bio-organic shield's for Tyranids inspired the various Rainbow 6 Seige shield characters.
Also I'm working with another educator on designing a world building class for college students. I'm stealing that last slide for our next meeting.
One of my favorite things about 40K as a franchise is the memes created by the community. It gives me a look into how its fanbase reacts to the setting of 40K. Stuff like "Skull for the Skull Throne" and "HERESY!" are well known, but then there's more specific stuff like perceiving Necrons as a group of people who just wanna sleep, or summing up The Horus Heresy story as "traitor with daddy issues". The banter is surprisingly fun and not as hostile as I expected.
Edit: Oh, and how could I forget my favorite meme. The Mechanicus faction views toasters as holy.
I thought the toasters were for fucking, not for revering...
They’re both.
Or how people never call Roboute Guilliman by his actual name, and he easily has the highest number of nicknames
The Brave Little Toaster goes to Mars!
@@Riplee86 That is indeed a very brave toaster.
As someone whos been into warhammer for ten years now, god im old.
SM2 does a really good job at throwing you chest deep into lore before pulling you up and going "hey, you got a taste, you can do more if you want" patting you on the head and tell you to go kill bugs
Should've thrown them straight into the daemon cubela. Now that's a proper introduction to grimdark
@dean_l33 If you legitimately think the daemonculaba is a good starting point then you must be one of those toxic people who doesn't want new people to join the fandom.
@@drizzmatec If you think about it, it's not that horrifying just a bit shocking but that's the point
@dean_l33 i wouldnt throw them at that, id say throw something like the short novel fifteen hours or rebel winter. Or if you want just huck em at the occulus Imperia channel
You know its funny how OSP uploads the warhammer video a few days after craftworld eldar (the faction red played) got their big range refresh shown.
One of my favorite youtube series gets an episode about one of my favorite franchises?
All I need now is for them to read Wheel of Time and talk about it and I think i could die happy.
Explain the lore to you, Blue? ***dOn'T mInD iF I DO!***
19:00 Ah, yes, "I love this property so much, let's explain it out", or as I've once heard it be called, "The Warcraft Movie problem"
"At least it's not drugs."
Now that is a tag line.
"I cant stop anytime i want.. i probable should! My pile of shame is about 8 months overdue!"
That's honestly a pretty good way to describe the actual describe 40k in general. I love my beloved Blood Angels because Vampire super soldiers. Basic bitch but there are no mitigating lore factor to this equation. There is good lore, even amongst a faction like Orks. But vibes carry this setting, sure the Imperium is the worst but they make a cool cathedral on the back of a giant robot.
Lots of good media dissection here, plenty that I needed to hear lol. Thanks, gang!
I'm tinkering away at a lore-heavy RPG (figuring out what's going on is half the point), and "Don't exposit lore, just do vibes" is real good advice.
"Worldbuilding through VIBES" has to be the perfect explanation of what makes Warhammer 40k so cool.
Blue and Red are painfully accurate about the costs of getting into tabletop. The standard rule book is 40-50 USD, you'll need 1-2 books which cost about that much as well with information about your army, a starter army that runs the gambit of 160-200 USD. Paints, brushes, glues and other material for your guys to get on the table will set you back another 100.
In other words, maybe a 500 dollar starting investment which you must now assemble and paint on your own time.
At 10:22 I could of sworn blue said "You can always find WAR if your wanting it" and I was like "that makes sense", then in a whim I rewound and listend closer, realizing that he actually said "You can always find MORE if your wanting it".
1:05:23 this little exchange has the EXACT same energy as every conversation between me and my fiancé ever since they got into Sonic the Hedgehog XDD
It is a very simple game, but done in such a simple way it somehow loops around to complex and awesome.
Like the space marine himself you don't need to know everything to kill everything and do your job.
Also love the customization options as there was even talk about editing visor colors showing just how detailed some fans are in their joy of making 'your dudes' in this game.
As a lot of good War hammer games helps Gove the feeling that you can male your own personal group or thing.
This entirw episode starts with blue saying he cares not for lore. Red just burting at the seams with giving foundational information for all the things that blue is talking about. I love this, and I would love to see yall do detailed diatribes on warhammer novels or games, talking about the massive variety in world building they do.
Lol! Red brought up that Blue was using the word "yappin" a lot and I was like "yeah, Milo got that one in my brain, too" right before Blue answered about the Filip Zeiba video. Man, I wish there was more overlap between this channel and Miniminuteman. That would be a fun collab.
I bet Milo would vibe really nice on an OSPod episode, maybe another Oops all History one, or another Oops all publishing/we made books episode when the Veneziad is launched and shipping
@1:05 OH NO you haven't heard of "Warhammer 40k Battlefleet Gothic Armada II"
One of 40K most GOATed game yet it flies under radar of so many. It was one of my proper introduction to the settings
‘Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War II - Chaos Rising’ would like a word
I see you haven't heard of "The Lord of the Rings: Battle for Middle Earth II: Rise of the Witch King" then. :p
"A Tyranid swarm of quite humorous extent"
@@DDTRAINERI wish EA still had the rights for those games, I’m so mad I can’t get them anymore, I NEED BfME II on Steam.
I love to see Warhammer getting more popular and being covered different UA-camrs / public figures. I want it to eventually be up there with start trek / Star Wars ( although not watered down to do so. Glad you enjoyed the game yall 😊
45:44 my favorite thing about this whole Tau mind control thing is that it's based on what Red Scare propagandists in the US literally told people was happening under Communism, especially in Asian countries like China and Korea, particularly inspired by racist Asian stereotypes.
One thing I like about Space Marine 2 is the fact that I don’t have to read 6 dissertations on 40k lore to figure out what’s going on. The walking bricks with god complexes are fighting the hungry space cockroaches. That’s all I need to know. I know what Titus went through in the first game so I know why he acts different, but it ultimately doesn’t matter, all that matters is how I can get my chainsword into that tyranid’s spinal column as quickly as possible.
I got into 40k because of how bonkers and convoluted the lore is, stayed for how nihilistically funny the setting is, and am a fan because I (like Blue) really dig the vibes! Praise the Omnissiah!
It seems all my friends have been getting into Warhammer in some capacity in the last month so fine, I guess I'll learn too. Vibes only is perfect
Just stay away from the minis. If you MUST get into the minis, buy used, off-brand, or 3D prints. Take it from someone who's been in this game for almost 20 years: GW's pricing model should not be encouraged.
"Nothing in the world- the universe is above being sacrificed for the war"
Except my boy, Ciaphas Cain.
I've always loved y'all's content, but more and more I find that between the two of you I received a greater and greater sense of frame and language to understand the impact and importance storytelling as it exists in my life. Running games of exalted vampire the Masquerade mage the Ascension and werewolf the Apocalypse in my high school and college days we're at the time for the most part extemporaneous expressions facilitating my engagement with close friends. The experiences were super impactful and formative, and you to help me to understand some of whys and wherefores. Superthanks!
I'm very excited for a couple years from now when Blue does a detail diatribe on why Ultramarines are awesome and deserve their spot as poster boys and uses deep cut insults for every sub faction of every race to do it. It's either that or the black templars
"Some of us may die, but that is a sacrifice I am willing to make" is 1000% the Space marine ethos
The last time i was this early Cadia was still in one piece
Spoilers, it didn't go well.
Cadia broke before the Guard did!
CADIA STANDS
@@grayrook8637 Still the Guardsman holds the line
The planet broke, the guard never did.
What I'm hearing is this game is a masterclass in what I always say about storytelling: tell your audience everything they need to know, but tell them only what they *need* to know.
Going to bat for my blue boys here, the mind control thing is still technically unconfirmed. Basically every time it comes up, even in the rulebooks, it's always framed as "Imperial scholars think this is how they do it." They reference dissections of Tau that show that it's something the Ethereals might be capable of, but it's never outright stated whether that's the truth or it's just some guy trying to justify upstanding Imperial citizens leaving their 5x5 square of living space, daily ration of ground up dead guy, and constant fear of getting shot in the face for not praying hard enough for a system that treats them like actual living beings.
It’s always irritated me how GW has gone about making the Tau darker. They could have really leaned into underhanded tactics and real life strategies of imperialism, since they’re still an awful expansionist empire by modern standards. But no, gotta make them Imperium Lite because that’s easier.
In fire warrior an Ethereal litteraly hijacks a young Tau, and gives him enough speed to pick up a plasma pistol and shoot a Space Marine almost at point blank range. They definetly mind control the rest of the Tau.
In one of the Farsight-Books an Ethereal orders a Watercast-Member that found something out she shouldnt have to kill herself and she immidieatly does.
So...
Commander Farsight fully seceded from the empire when all his ethereals got killed by khorne demons, because he realized they were affecting his mind. So it is confirmed.
I'd always kind of figured that it was more of a both thing there, especially considering some of the other things that the main Tau have been up to at various points.
Farsight is one of the few "Good" groups...Celestial Lions being another one.
Possibly the Lamenters, but they're even more of a whipping boy than the Celestial Lions are...though at least with the Lions even the Dark Angels and Space Wolves decided to deal with a few Inquisitors in their own "special" ways over that shit later on.
Ironically that mini in the picture w/ Henry Cavill is an Eldar Avatar of Khaine
As someone who knows too much lore, I am glad for the specification.
Glad to have found someone that also owns a Black Library
This is one of the reasons I love WH fantasy, especially the total war games,
you don't need to know any of the deep lore, its just
"vampire pirates with shipwreck mecha" or "Dinosaurs riding bigger laser wielding dinosaurs"
Also Blue, you might be interested in reading/listening to brothers of the snake.
The names and settings in that book are all greek mythology throwbacks that you'll probably enjoy
I feel like Blue would really like Trazyn
@@San-nj8fj Historymakers: Trazyn the Infinite
Imagine how glorious it could be lol.
Brothers of the Snake is a pretty good argument against space marines being boring.