Predestination is difficult to accept because man’s heart is self centered and humanistic. We do not believe it cause Augustine or Calvin taught it. We believe it cause it is an undeniable truth in the Word of God!
James Fulp, I disagree with your notion that "predestination is difficult to accept because man's is self centered and humanistic". Only those who are ignorant of the bible dosen't accept the concept of predestination as it is clearly taught in the bible. But Calvinism twisted the bible and taught a double-predestination doctrine instead which the bible never taught. Calvinism is a heretical teaching.
Very profound and easy to understand explanation!! Appreciate it!! I know in my own life, I would've NEVER found God. NOTHING in me knew Him or drew me to Him. If it wasn't HIS Inner Work and Sealing, I would've gone into an eternity without knowing Him at all. Paul had to be knocked off a horse: Not by his choice but to be given a Life he would've NEVER found on his own. In one of his writings he said "in me, that is in my flesh, dwells no good thing". Since the flesh is connected to religion and not salvation, all the 'goodness' cannot lead to God. (Ask a Pharisee!!!). "NO MAN can come to the Father unless he is drawn BY HIM." It's against ego to admit I cannot 'accept' or 'call for' God and get the level of Sonship that only comes by the Sealing of the Holy Spirit. One can accept Christ without being Born from Above. A revelation from Jeremiah was that God called and ordained this prophet before the foundation of the world!!! (Jer 1:4). Jeremiah did not go to an altar call or say a sinner's prayer!!!! I don't understand the whole of Predestination nor could I; otherwise I'd be God!!! I accept the little bits and pieces that are revealed and focus more on daily surrender and obedience, making sure that no part of my life is my own and that I'm not counting my earthly life dear unto myself. God chooses. God chooses not. God also allows "eyes not to see, ears not to hear": HE'S God. Yes, people have a sort-of free will but if one believes their will can supersede the Divine Will, that person is delusional. (Ask lucifer). God will appear unfair to those who don't understand God's Mind / Will. The whole cannot be figured out with a peanut brain. Does not the Potter have power over the clay to make one vessel this way and another that way? One does not need to understand how an airplane works to get a ride from point A to point B. The goal is to Rest and Trust, not try to figure anything out. It's the enemy that has always used doubt to get the tiny human mind involved with questions and keep one from Trusting like a child (who trusts without knowing everything). Nothing can be done apart from Him. Humans are sustained by air (earth breath); True Borns are alive by Eternal Air (Spirit breath). Choosing to live or Live is not of man, who cannot by thinking or will add one day to his stature.
It was many years before God impressed one message in me-We aren't here to prove predestination/election but to preach and teach Christ came to save us from sin. Those that will listen will, and those that won't won't. We are not worthy to decide who will and who won't and are to never make that judgement our self but to continue preaching/teaching Christ. I know many people that claim to believe in free will that truly have had a salvation experience with God and some that believe in predestination/election that have also. My belief is they are both right but it's all about perspective and neither have God's perspective on the work of the Holy Spirit. Preach/teach the word and let God do the rest.
“You have to do something with predestination” - that is so true!! Sadly many just don’t “like” the word so they twist it to mean what they want it to mean….
God dignifies us with free will, the power to make decisions of our own rather than having God or fate predetermine what we do. Consider what the Bible teaches. God created humans in his image. (Genesis 1:26) Unlike animals, which act mainly on instinct, we resemble our Creator in our capacity to display such qualities as love and justice. And like our Creator, we have free will. To a great extent, we can determine our future. The Bible encourages us to “choose life . . . by listening to [God’s] voice,” that is, by choosing to obey his commands. (Deuteronomy 30:19, 20) This offer would be meaningless, even cruel, if we lacked free will. Instead of forcing us to do what he says, God warmly appeals to us: “O if only you would actually pay attention to my commandments! Then your peace would become just like a river.”-Isaiah 48:18. Our success or failure is not determined by fate. If we want to succeed at an endeavor, we must work hard. “All that your hand finds to do,” says the Bible, “do with your very power.”(Ecclesiastes 9:10) It also says: “The plans of the diligent one surely make for advantage.”-Proverbs 21:5. Free will is a precious gift from God, for it lets us love him with our “whole heart”-because we want to.-Matthew 22:37. Doesn’t God control all things? The Bible does teach that God is Almighty, that his power is not limited by anyone other than himself. (Job 37:23; Isaiah 40:26) However, he does not use his power to control everything. For example, the Bible says that God was “exercising self-control” toward ancient Babylon, an enemy of his people. (Isaiah 42:14) Similarly, for now, he chooses to tolerate those who misuse their free will to harm others. But God will not do so indefinitely.-Psalm 37:10, 11.
So in your view, you have room to boast because you were smart enough to believe when it was offered to you. Gods word teaches just the opposite. God did not set this up as a test. He created all things to display his perfection and glory. Gods has chosen to save some although none deserve being saved as all are born dead and lost in their sinful nature. You can’t believe the offer of salvation because you are dead! Satan is so sly. He wants God to not receive the glory and praise he deserves. So instead of us understanding that we must be born again before we can have faith, Satan turned it around and told us that we must have faith to be born again. Which gives so many the delusion that they are saved when they are not. It gives us some of the credit, the glory for our faith when all the glory belongs to God the only one who is perfection. This is why Jesus warned that many will stand before him and say that they did all these things in his name, but he will answer, I never knew you. The Bible tells us to test ourselves to make that we are in the faith and that our Election is sure (election is Gods decision not ours). Read Romans ch 9. Paul explains all your push back and questions on the matter.
@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts we have free will to live in our dead lost sinful state and while the offer of the Gospel goes out into the world, only those who have been born again by Gods spirit will have true faith. Jesus told Nichodemus that no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again of the spirit. And then he said the wind blows where it will and so it is with the spirit of God. Salvation is 100% the work of God so much so that it is God that keeps those he has chosen unto glorification and Jesus said that he will not loose a single one that has been given to him. Salvation is not dependent on you it is completely dependent on God from start to finish. We self centered humans get it backwards when we think we become born again once we believe. The Bible teaches just the opposite. We only truly believe if God has first baptized us by his spirit. Our ways and thoughts are not Gods ways.
Foreknowledge: To know ahead of time. Isaiah 46:9-10 He says He is the only God and proves it by saying He knows the end from the beginning. God's unique foreknowledge is just one of His characteristics which show Him to be the ONLY God. There is no suggestion there that He uses this to determine the future. Romans does not say we are predestined "to be saved.," but rather to be made in the likeness of Jesus - loving, holy, joyful, etc. And our experience of the new birth gives us attitudes, behavior, characters which demonstrate our HOPE, a hope that will cause people to inquire about the reasons for the hope that lies within us. Praise the Lord!
4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will This clearly says he chose us before creation for adoption to sonship (meaning to be saved) and he did it by his own good pleasure meaning his sovereign right to choose.. And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac 11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), 12 it was said to her, “The older shall serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.” Israel’s Rejection and God’s Justice 14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! 15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.”
Predestination means if you're truly follower of Christ your destination is with Christ it doesn't mean he predestined people before they were born it means their destination is heaven for the followers of
Phillip Crockett, Yes, God predestined you since the foundation of the world because He knows that you will believe in Jesus... He predestined you to be saved, but you need to know the gospel and believe and receive the Holy Spirit and be born again to be saved....
no predestinatio is simple pre- before destination = place God has prepared a place for every Believer. God through the Apostle Paul is telling the church they will end up with him in the afterlife. stop overthinking the text people. and you will be finallyconformed to his image glorification
I think that well meaning men have muddy’d the waters with their opinions about predestination which has led to misunderstanding and alienation. Just let scripture explain itself,John3:16-For God so loved who(the WORLD)that he gave his only begotten son that(WHOSOEVER) believes in him will not perish, but have eternal life. After people exercise their God-given free will to accept or reject, then predestination kicks in Matthew 25 there are only two categories of folk in the world; sheep & goats, whichever choice a person chooses has a “predestined”destination if you will. We choose to be either sheep or goats; no more, no less. God through his son has given us his “Word”❤and he is not a man that he should lie Num 23:19🙏🏾
@@josephdurraz8574begin here; God created everything to display His perfection and Glory. With that as the starting point, which way brings God the greatest glory? That he offers you salvation (dangles the carrot) and lets you decide, or that out of all of humanity (that has no ability in itself to desire or seek God because we are born spiritually dead and they deserve nothing but destruction) God chose to save some by giving them His spirit, a regeneration of their dead lost spirit, and not that it enables faith in God, but it actually produces faith in God. Which way gives God all the glory he and only he deserves? Which way will make you more grateful? That he offered you a choice, or that when you had no ability to chose Him he changed you by giving you His Spirit which actually produced the faith that you have? Salvation from start to finish is 100% The work of God which gives God all the glory. This life is not a test for us, we, his creation, are just part of the demonstration of His perfection and Glory. Once you see it you won’t be able to un see it and it will bring to 0:58 you a greater heart of thankfulness to God for what he has given you. Read Romans Chapter 9. Paul answers all the push back and questions that we self centered humans might have. Remember, our ways and our thinking are not Gods ways.
It's very simple, God predestined everyone from the begging of time to become his child. Then he gave them a choice to either accept him or reject him. Now there you have it believe it or not. That is your choice given to you by God almighty and there's nothing more to add or subtract. Thank you!
@@benmeitzen4184 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. Revelation:3:5And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. Revelation:22:19
@@tsapp2831 Okay yeah these are both great passages. Most reformed Christians would say that for those who are truly in Christ and have truly been adopted the gift of salvation is eternally secure. "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you" 1 Peter 1:3-4
Why do people get these words twisted. Creation was predestined. Genesis 1:31. Everything after Genesis 1:31 is God reconciling His creation not only people but the universe back to Genesis 1:31 again. People are not individually predestined. Election- Election has nothing to do with Salvation. Was Pharaoh elected? Yes. Was Judas Elected? Yes. Was either one of them saved? No!!! Not because they didn't have a choice. God gave pharaoh 9 chances before He (God) left his heart hard. How did Paul answer the jailor? What must I do to be saved? What must a person do to be saved? If your answer is different from Paul's... You have a problem. Not Paul or God. Stop twisting the scriptures to fit a man made Doctrine. Before you quote the Potter and the clay...finish that story. The two greatest commandments are LOVE. If LOVE is by force or compelling then it isn't LOVE by definition.
Dean Kooper Pharaohs hardness of Heart was a result of his rebellion of the warnings given by God.. (Therefore God hardened his heart) His FREE WILL was to have his heart hardened against God. It’s a consequence of sin, not God forcibly making him rebellious. James 1:13 “For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone” ..Also Calvinism like Arminianism came later after Luther’s death.. Martin Luther wasn’t a Calvinist. Romans 4:3 “For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham (1)BELIEVED God, and (2)it was counted to him as righteousness.” I don’t believe God forces Himself onto anyone, but is clearly patient throughout all of scripture, waiting on Israel/OT and now waiting on ALL people to believe in Christ Jesus. (2 Peter 3:9) The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is PATIENT with you, not wanting ANYONE to perish, but EVERYONE to COME TO REPENTANCE. (Acts 16:31) “What must I do to be saved?” “BELIEVE on The Lord Jesus and you will be saved.” There is a huge misconception that faith is a “work of righteousness”. Our faith didn’t save us, it simply received the GIFT!! This isn’t a contradiction, we still did nothing to earn it..
@@koopeda, Dean Kooper, Dean Kooper, Definitely 'Election and Predestination' is biblical, but NOT 'Calvin's Election and Predestination'..... Calvin's doctrine of 'Election and Predestination' is 'Biblical Truth mixed with man-made Lies' John Calvin did not fully understand the Bible's doctrine of 'Election and Predestination', so he added his own understanding to this biblical Truth..... 'Truth mixed with Lies' is more dangerous than Lies alone..... Calvinism is an evil doctrine.....
@@koopeda, First of all, I am not Arminian.... To prove my point, Please read this statement of John Calvin and tell me if this is Scriptural.... ''God arranges all things by His Sovereign counsel, in such a way that individuals are born, who are doomed from the womb to certain death, and are to glorify Him by their destruction.'' Now prove to me with Biblical Support, that this belief of Calvin is indeed Scriptural.....Because the way I see, it is evil.... Thanks....
@@koopeda, Yes, I have read Romans 9 several times..... But it has nothing to do with what I said.... It has nothing to do also whether Calvin started Calvinism or Agustin .... The point is that everyone calls it Calvinism.... What I said is Calvinism is a mixture of Biblical Truth and man-made Lies.... So quoting me Romans 9 has nothing to do with it, What matters is the mixture of man-made Lies..... You did not yet answer my first Question.... After we settled with my first Question, I will Give you Scriptural Proof that Calvin missed and therefore he added his own understanding without Scriptural Support ..... This is my First Question : Please explain what Calvin meant with this Statement : ''God arranges all things by His Sovereign counsel, in such a way that individuals are born, who are doomed from the womb to certain death, and are to glorify Him by their destruction.'' NOTE : The way I see, it is an evil doctrine..... and is NOT Supported by the Scriptures.....
@@koopeda, ''...the answer to your question is in Romans 9. God is glorified in sending people to hell...'' => from your post Sorry, I did not see it in Romans 9. Can you please specify what particular verse is that?...... Thanks.....
Yes you do need to do something with predestination. Your Destiny from God can’t be fulfilled without your own action. God won’t do it for you, he will only help you. You need to make the right choices for yourself and with people and your will must be strong and you must guide yourself.
Total nonsense. Sinners through Adam's sin will not and cannot come to Christ. You can't expect any cooperation with God's grace since that is the case.
Richard Coords, your answer is correct , the Bible doesn’t really explain the meaning of that verse, others have made up all kinds of teachings over it. Especially that heretic Calvin !
It is not God's will that any should perish but all would come to repentance and eternal life. God gives each person a choice whether they want to be saved or not. God's Spirit first touches a person and then the person has to respond
Dennis, do not take 2 Peter 3:9 out of context. The "any" and the "all" are referring to the beloved, namely the audience of believers that Peter is addressing. Peter says in the same chapter just a few verses earlier that God has reserved a day of judgment where he will destroy mockers, scoffers and the rest of his enemies.
Calvinism's view of predestination removes free will, it removes God's desire to save all people, it removes Jesus' death for all people. It makes prayers, fasting, and evangelism for your lost friend or family member pointless. God either wants to save them or He doesn't. Nothing you can do about it. What a sad misrepresentation of the God of love found in the Bible
My take on the whole predestination deal is this. As God knows everything He therefore knew before creating the angels that there would eventually be a rebellion in heaven with one third of the angelic realm rebelling against Him. But He also knew that He could turn this situation into an unprecedented opportunity. Therefore He went ahead with plan to create the angels. He realised it would be possible to create a new species, namely mankind, that could actually eventually become copies of Himself, made in His image, if He used the rebels as tempters to tempt man to become rebels. But those who overcome the temptations to rebel against God and instead become loyal to God, would qualify with the new character developed in overcoming the temptations, to actually become sons and daughters of God. However the tempters would be very successful at tempting mankind because many would succumb to the temptations resulting in the manifestation of either atheism or outright sinning manifesting in disobedience to God’s rules or commandments. Therefore the fall of the fallen angels was indirectly responsible for providing the opportunity for man to eventually become copies of God. However God obviously knew that if He created mankind He would loose many to the temptations of Satan and the fallen angels, but because of the few whom He knew would take his deal, He deemed the loss of the lost, those who wouldn’t pass the test, as somehow being a worthwhile sacrifice. But obviously God also knew before creating the angels or mankind that He would have to throw Himself into the deal to make it work. He knew He’d have to become Jesus Christ and be sacrificed. God also knew that the powers of the tempting ones would be such that if He didn’t help those whom He knew would go in His direction, they wouldn’t make it. So therefore He helps them to repent by orchestrating their life so they can. The bible calls this predestination. Genesis 1:26-28 King James Version (KJV) 26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. There you have it.
rabbitcreative Hello there dear Rabbit, I’m not sure that makes much sense. A fairy tale? What exactly do you mean? Perhaps you might care to enlighten us.
@Suzu Wuzu God knows everything. He knew before He created mankind that they would bring Him to the point that He got to before the Flood. However I think we can assume that if He knew that there wouldn’t be any righteous ones at all, such as the 8 people on the ark, and it was going to be necessary to destroy them all, sparing no one, then He wouldn’t have made man in the first place.
So if many are called but few are chosen, and if not one of those chosen by Jesus will be lost, then why really do anything other than what I want to do because apparently I am going to go to wherever regardless of what I do? And also, if I am a sheep, then why should I trust my own judgement to begin with because from what I've heard sheep aren't really that bright?
6 months and no answer to your question? Thats the one that ALWAYS gets them. Because Calvinism has to throw out common sense and reasoning out the window on the subject.
Of course do what you want. If you sre if the Lord you will hear his voice when he calls you and if you are of the devil you will hear that call. God knows how you will act, react and what you will choose you have free will. He knew some people will just NOT accept being saved, they want to know things our minds are not capable of comprehending. If you already have that attitude of oh well I will do what i want then you maybe right about doing what you want. But if you say it is my choice because i choose look for the Lord and reject sin then God knew you would react that way too because it is your choice. He just knew what you would choose. You have the choice and you will still be held accountable for either one. You talk about sheeps of not being bright, its just an example of when God speaks his sons will hear him.its your choice its your life. You cant blame God or anyone else. You choose. God knew what you would choose
I understand what this video is trying to explain but you're right. Predestination is a false doctrine. They are conflating it with the doctrine of foreordination. Predestination means that we are destined before hand to follow a certain path, we may deviate from that path but God has a path laid out for us from birth according to this doctrine and I just can't accept that a loving God would create us to fail. It's false.
Jordan Forbes I think God knows what path we are going to take in our life- but in a sense we are not necessarily limited by that. For example, if we accept Jesus’s invitation to his kingdom, repent and turn away from sin, there is nothing necessarily stopping you from doing that. That was the predestined plan in the first place, if that is the decision you take. Predestination is not necessarily a “brick wall” where you want to become a Christian and God doesn’t let you. It’s different than that. And yes, my explanation does seem like a paradox, but I think we can’t fully understand it because God is outside of our 3-dimensional linear thinking. Just my thoughts 🤷🏽♂️
It seems to me that this is a distraction subject. I prefer to keep it simple and take God at his word. The offer of salvation is on the table. Either one can accept it or reject it. For a person to say that he or she was predetermined strikes me to be walking into the weeds of ego and even pride and possibly riddled with much folly. All are sinners. All struggle with it, saved or not. There's a sinner's judgement and there's an elect judgement. All must give an account. I pray that no matter what happens with me in my life for that God to never let me go. To be the Father that he promises to be. Spank me when I need it. Protect me when I need it. And help me to understand Him better.
You said it, “seems to me”. Your ways are not Gods ways. Simply read Romans chapter 9 as Paul answers all your push back and questions on the matter or how salvation occurs. The purpose of of God creating us was not to put us to a test to see if we would believe once we heard his offer, but it was to display that only he is perfection and that only he deserves praise and glory. Would you give greater praise to God for offering you salvation and letting YOU chose or, God simply choosing you as one of many from all the spiritually dead and lost of all of humanity to give to you the rebirth of his spirit which actually produced faith, the faith that you in no way could ever have or sustain. A free gift that you didn’t deserve or could never, ever produce. Which way gives God the glory and not you? And that is the answer. Once you see it you won’t be able to unsee it and you will see it through all of scripture. It will also bring you to a place of giving God all praise and glory and a greater thankfulness for what he has given you
Biblical predestination is correct. However, deterministic theism was introduced to Christianity by Augustine and was later reappropriated by Calvin. Chandler is just trying to present a sugar coated form of Calvinism, but this is disengenuous. As he elsewhere present himself as a classic Calvinist. Historic biblical Christianity (particularly the church father) has always taught, free will, in opposition to the stoics and gnostics whose believed in absolute determinism and unconditional election. Augustine's incorporations of these belief later in life has been one of the most damaging events in Western Christianity.
The Bible nowhere teaches that natural men have free will to do good or evil, it teaches that the natural man is a slave to sin and salvation doesn't depend on those who will or work, but on God alone.
Let me see if I am getting the right. A majority of humans before they are borne and before they commit a sinful act are DAMNED to HELL for eternity, and then God blames the DAMNED for being DAMNED even though God made them that way. Am I missing something?
Everything that happens in history has been decreed/Predestined before the world was created see Eph 1:11, Proverbs 16:33 and Amos 3:6. And yes even when terrible things happen, I know it's hard for some people to accept but look what happened when David sinned against God and one of Davids punishments was that God told him that he was going to use Davids own son to shame his Father by Absalom Absalom doing something immoral to his Fathers concubines in front of all of Israel, see 2 Samuel 12:11-12 God said "Thus says the Lord, ‘Behold, I will raise up evil against you from your own household; I will even take your wives before your eyes and give them to your companion, and he will lie with your wives in broad daylight. Indeed you did it secretly, but I will do this thing before all Israel, and under the sun." Notice how God said "I WILL DO THIS THING."That was fulfilled in 2 Samuel 16:21-22. Jesus did not die for every single person ever and Jesus didn't die to make people savable. He died to save his elect. In John 17:9 Jesus said that he does not pray for the world. The word world is used in different contexts, in that context he's talking about the non elect. In John 3:16 world means that he purchased people from every tribe, tongue and nation Rev 5:9 and for the children of God scattered abroad John 11:52. Some have been "long beforehand marked out for condemnation" Jude 4 and "appointed to doom." 1 Peter 2:8. About Pharaoh God said “For this VERY PURPOSE I raised you up, to demonstrate My power in you, and that My name might be proclaimed throughout the whole earth.” So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires." Rom 9:17-18. Jesus said "I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to infants. Yes, Father, for this way was well-pleasing in Your sight. All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him." Matthew 11:25-27. So, 2 Pet 3:9 the "not willing that any should perish" if you read that letter in context, 2 Pet 1:1 says "To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours." As far as salvation for all men verses, Paul was refuting the false notion of his time that God was only desiring to save just the Jews and 1 Tim 2:2 says to pray "for kings and all who are in authority" because as humans WE DON'T KNOW WHO THE ELECT ARE SO WE PRAY FOR EVERYONE! That's what it means in verse 4 by saying "all men." Amos 3:2 God said "of all the nations of the earth I have only known you." For centuries God passed over the majority of humankind because this verse isn't about knowledge it's about relationship. And it isn't because God foresaw Israel was more righteous then the other nations because sometimes Israel was more sinful then the pagan nations see 2 Kings 21:9. Only those who were predestined to be saved will be see Acts 13:48, Ephesians 1:4-5, Eph 1:11, Romans 9:11-23, John 6:37. 1 Samuel 3:14 God said “Therefore I have sworn to the house of Eli that the iniquity of Eli’s house shall not be atoned for by sacrifice or offering forever.” That's Limited atonement.
This was what I expected as an explanation for predestination. Its nonsensical and does not even address the real issues that cause this topic to be so decisive among fellow believers. It seems to me the problem with predestination is that it wholly rewrites and challenges large portions of what virtually all Christians believe to be true about the God of Abraham and where we fit in as humans. It also greatly complicates the age old 'problem with evil'. If God knows from the beginning who will be saved and who won't, that means he knowingly created most of humanity to function as nothing more that clay pots to be broken. Most people walking the earth and those that have ever lived are merely vessels of wrath, fitted for destruction. This totally negates the universal belief that God is omnibenevolent. It more than just suggests that to the point-of-view of a large portion of humanity; God is in-fact the enemy of mankind, as well as its creator. This further complicates the problem with evil. It makes Satan and his demons redundant in some ways. It also give Lucifer a scapegoat for his rebellion against God. As who is to say that God didn't also know that Lucifer was going to stand against him, thus just like the rest of mankind, destined for the fires of hell; Lucifer was merely God's first victim. After all, he set the rules up for most of his creations to fail and suffer for it, by no fault of their own. This is not to mention that it also negates the belief that humans were given free will. The ability to choose through our actions whether or not we will attain the splendor of heaven through our actions in this life. Predestination effectively asserts that not even accepting Christ would save you from your destined outcome. To this day, I've yet to have anybody give me any good answer for this. Its always either word salad like what I just heard from this video that explains nothing. Or it is a simple 'catholic style' command that I must take this on faith. Followed by condemnation for daring to question. (Also in typical style of the Catholics)
I feel like this predestination thing is missing gods love. Hard to think of a father to predestine one of his kids to fail and the other to succeed and be able to look both of them in the face and say I love you both equally
I totally believe in the doctrine of predestination and Election, this fits with what the scripture teaches. My only question is, why does everyone take issue with this? My only take is that people don't like the idea that they don't have complete free will, and I ask why?
We have an issue with it because it means you believe God created people who have no choice and is glorified in sending them to hell. In Romans 9 Paul is so distraught over the lost that he would rather be accursed himself than see them lost. Does he care more about those who are unsaved than God?
God takes no pleasure in sending people to hell. People are responsible for their own sin, and God is sovereign over people. This is called an antinomy which is two mutually exclusive truths that seem to contradict each other if true at the same time however this is what the Bible teaches, similar to asking the question who wrote the Bible, God or man. The answer is both. Even if you reject the doctrine of election and go with arminianism, you still run into the same problem. If God in his foreknowledge can see into the future and tell if the person he creates rejects him, but creates him anyway, is he unjust for doing so.
I think it's more to do with the fact that God has decided that there are people who are going to be tormented in Hell forever, that this is fixed, that he has decided that this is so, and that not even the death of Jesus on the cross can help and that somehow brings glory to him. This makes God sovereign, for sure, but it doesn't make him good.
@@TheMOV13 I can see your point, but the real question is, does scripture teach election? Regardless of how we feel about it. It doesn't matter if I disagree with the text, if it is true in what it says, is it really fair to let my emotions decide the interpretation or do I need to wrestle and come to terms with the truth of it.
@@mpalmer22 The emotions don't really matter, you could argue that God deciding that some people - quite large numbers probably - are created by him for the sole purpose of being tormented forever, and that this is glorifying him - is really objectively bad, by the standards that God himslef has placed in our hearts, whether I react emotionally to it or not. Yes, of course the bible teaches election - but I think we really must keep in mind that it's possible to nevertheless misunderstand how that works. The Old Testament people of God were elect too - and yet it was God's plan and desire that all the families and nations of the world should be blessed through them.
To say that God looked down the corridor of time and saw who would choose Him so he chose them is wrong because it makes that corridor larger than God and it implies that there was something that God didnt know and there for had to learn. The Calvinistic view is the only one that can possibly be right. Man cannot check mate God. Also think, why did the early church need to even know about predestination? God could have kept it a mystery and saved believers without giving us that knowledge. He graced us with the knowledge because the early jews in the church thought that only they were chosen by God and that the gentiles were just extra. And through divine revelation God said no! Before Abraham, like before I laid the foundation of the world, if you believe, you were chosen by me. Jew and gentile can be the chosen people. And those who share the faith of Abraham are the spiritual children of Abraham. See, it ties into that middle wall of separation being removed.
If predestined, elected, why preach, why evangelize? Whose destined for Hell is gonna go there,who's destined for heaven is going there, the script is already written! So we're robots. Why are we going through the play if everyone's path already paved? Save everyone the agony. Some are predestined, made for a certain part, not everyone. Pharaoh, Judas, caiphas, the elected judges, 144000, not everyone. Why preach the gospel, giving people hope when they will forever be doomed?
The people Jesus picks are predestined to go to heaven, but they still have to find Christ, believe in him, get saved, etc., and everyone’s job as a Christian is to share the gospel because nobody knows who is predestined
Ganzi P if God is so good, why would he create people just to make their eternal life miserable and make them go to hell. i choose to believe in a God that lets people who need him on Earth find him and the good people who can’t find him on their lifetime on Earth will be with him after, if they are good people of course.
@@tarak6058 none is good or does righteousness. Without Jesus we're not saved. Al Mohler answers it best in 2 minutes who can be saved? UA-cam it, helps Alot in clarifying
@@andrewjustice1025 unnecessary , who will be saved will be, who are to be condemned will be, you cannot change it, when god ordains it is finished, feeble mankind cannot change any of that, that's the misunderstood doctrine, ignoring freewill + other verses which says He does not wish that any may perish...that whosoever believeth..... preach all you may they predestined to Hell would never be saved!!!! Total nonsense.
Ganzi P this mindset is toxic. yes it is true; we all sin and do wrong things. however, if we live with the idea that this lifetime truly doesn’t matter, problems will occur in society. understand that many are born in rural places where they don’t have access to the same information. they aren’t informed of who Jesus is or any of this. therefore, if this is all true, they go to hell just because they didn’t have access to the information that would lead them to salvation. if God predestined us, WHY WOULD HE CREATE PEOPLE JUST TO DESTINE THEM TO HELL. that does not make sense. God created us to have free will to make good and bad choices.
Totally disagree. In Romans eight and Ephesians 1 the word predestined is specifically talking about heaven and adoption not salvation. Please read in context so you are not let astray with an unbiblical man-made doctrine. It is just a word and it tells us what it is referring to in the actual text. It is not a doctrine.
@@terrycrosslin7866 If the meaning is only about heaven, then the person who believes that will only see heaven as the goal. Those is heaven will be a reflection of God, not people who just wanted to get to heaven. And to be God's Reflection, the self needs to be let go completely. People want heaven but not the discipline to get there. And there is no Inner Prompt to deny self completely without the Birth from Above. American-churchianty makes people believe that it's about getting things FROM God instead of forgetting self and allowing HIM to be all in all. Religions of the East with their teachings on the danger of losing the Eternal by clinging to matter are closer to Christ's Truth than the self-loving non-spiritual church goers in the West.
Yes, 5-point Calvinism Predestination is one of the big heresies during the last 700 years. If God predestines to Salvation, why not put all humans into Salvation. There is No "irresistible grace." Go out on visitation and talk to 40 unsaved people and find out.
I believe the confusion has to do with the application of the word predestination! I think also it has NOTHING to do with questioning God‘s sovereignty! If we know God is infinite and knew everything from the beginning to the end even before we were created then God knew the outcome would that not be common sense? He is the Alpha and the Omega the beginning in the end! It is just basic understanding and applications of words that God has blessed us with to have knowledge of!
Yeah, that is REALLY a biased and incorrect definition. In Each case where the word is used in scriptures, it is NEVER about "events" but about God's intentions for the persons who get saved. IN Ephesians 4, it does NOT say: 'chosen us TO BE SAVED'! RATHER, IT GIVES SPECIFIC THINGS GOD INTENDED FOR THOSE WHO ARE SAVED, and is predicated by the conjunctive word "THAT". Consisting of what God has "chose " as: "that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: ". And again in this verse the "predestination" is NOT "to be saved", but that of "adoption": Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, [THAT]: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. This is restated again in verse 11! And in verses 12-13 it states that these people "FIRST trusted in Christ! SALVATION came by their faith in Christ , THEN they are regenerated ! (Eph 1:12) That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. (Eph 1:13) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit (properly "spirit", not Spirit) of promise, [The regenerate quickened and undefiled (hagios or holy) spirit of Jesus placed in each of us ! (1 Cor. 15: 45, Col. 1:26-27, Ezekiel 36: 25-27, "my spirit", not 'my Spirit' vs 27) This is the "earnest" or down payment on our future inheritance! NO ONE is predestinated "to salvation"! That is presumptive eisegesis they ADD into the verses in EVERY case! But there are many things that God predestined FOR the saved individual!
The bible says it... Jesus died only for the Sheep. Please read John chapter 10.. Also Jesus also said that all that the Father draws to Him... He will raise them up on the last day(John 6:44)....
@@josephdurraz8574 "My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an [a]Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2and He Himself is the [b]propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world." (1 John 2)
I may not be a Calvinist by any means but I do like this explanation. It’s presented very well and gets the facts that cannot be refuted by both sides out there.
There's another test that can be applied to doctrine - was it universally taught and accepted by all Christians everywhere, for the first 1000 years of the church, or is is an innovation from relatively recent times? If the latter, then at least some degree of caution is advisable.
God "forknows" everything... So... by bringing anything into existence it is "predestined" to the end God already knew before creation began. The only way a soul can ever be in hell is because God created that soul and he created hell. God having complete and perfect knowlage of all things past present and future... meaning God knew and knows exactly who will be in hell before they even exist, by bringing them into existence their fate is sealed, or if you rather say... their final destination is already set. God knew ( before creation began) every murder, rape, lie, lust,ect ect, that would be committed by every human he planed to exist. Do with this as you like... it is however biblical truth, and that doesn't depend on the version of bible you read either... they all say God has perfect knowlage of all things past, present, and future. Example... God knew who would read this and what they would think before the creation began, by creating me ( God knowing all that ever I would do or think) God sealed me to do and think what he already knew i would do and think the moment he brought me into existence. Now hear this.... If God truly wants every soul to be saved they will be! He knew everyone's end before the beginning. God knew all you would ever do before he made you, if he didn't want you to do the things he knew you would do before he made you... he would not have made you. Trust in Christ you've always been in God's hands.
This describes my view of god to a T I was once a hard atheist, most of my life. There was a moment in time that really helped to begin my journey to finding god. A man said "You are not smarter than God." God knows all there there ever has been, all there is, and all there ever will be. He shapes it all, down to the smallest detail. He is infinite in his wisdom.
Danny, You left one piece out of your judgment, (God's will). you assumed that everything is controlled by the foreknowledge of God. Imagine this, if God foreknows everything in the future, then how far does he know? It can't go forever! Otherwise he is still doing it and can't snap out of it. That's why his will is in control and time and future are under his control and from him, he owns it. If you own that then no foreknowledge is required and you let the live will of God do what it pleases.
So who decides that these people will end up in hell? Do they get any say in that. It seems you are conflating the ideas of predestination and foreknowledge.
Predestination is simply Gods plan of salvation for whosoever will believe, which is to conform them to the image of His son. It has nothing to do with arbitrarily “pre-selecting” those who will believe, since scripture clearly teaches that: The Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
It has everything to do with pre-selecting, since no one seeks God (Romans 3:10-11). Did you forget that verse? Also who are you, to talk back to God (Romans 9:20)? The one molded does not say to the molder 'why did you make me like this?' Drop your man-centered theology. God, willing to show his wrath and make his power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order for him to show mercy on the other vessels who he created for mercy (Romans 9:22-23).
@@alihoussney7870 - That’s why the Holy Spirit draws all men to himself (Jn 12:32). Those who respond to the gospel, repent and believe become the elect…foreknown by God from the foundation of the world. Not pre-determined, pre-KNOWN. Elect according to the FOREKNOWLEDGE of God. Just because I reject your personal interpretation of scripture does not mean I’m “talking back to God”. Nice try though….
@@alihoussney7870 - True, but it was based on Gods foreknowledge (foresight) of those who would come to Christ and follow Him. Eph 1 is talking about his plan for “whosoever would call upon the name of the Lord and be saved”, that being: “That we should be holy and without blame before him in love, and predestined for adoption as His children” (Eph 1:4-5). God is omniscient, so it should not surprise anyone that he already knows the end from the beginning….from before the foundation of the world. He knows those who will come to Him and faithfully follow to the end, they ARE the elect, predestined to be conformed to the image of His son. The whole “arbitrary selection” viewpoint just doesn’t make any sense, and I don’t think it’s scriptural….at all.
why preach if it won't make a difference. People can't be saved by faith or actions. So why preach to them? You're wasting their time and your time. God has decided for them if they are saved. We have no free will. If presdestination is true, then we are either saved or not, and nothing can change that. Forget Matt 25:21-46.
My eternal brother, I have a question: under the predestination regime, and according to the real meaning of predestination, there exist sin or violation?
John Calvin specifically and forcefully taught there was no Free will and that salvation was predetermined. So are you agreeing or disagreeing with Calvin? From this video its hard to tell.
1Cor7:24 "Brethren, let every man, wherein he is called, therein abide with God".KJV. In other words, stay in whatever situation you are in when you are saved (become one of the "called" or chosen). Obviously, this "calling" can only occur while you are alive, living, when you believe, NOT predestined before the foundation of the world. Also in 1Cor7:20
What if God didn’t choose me, I love him and I want to love him and desire and follow him yes I do mess up but what if I’m the end I’m not chosen? It scares me
I think that’s the wrong idea. There is nothing stopping you from accepting Jesus’s invitation, repenting, and turning away from sin, and becoming a Christian. Some people view predestination as a brick wall where- you want to be a Christian but God “doesn’t let you”. I think it’s a little more complex than that. You can make whatever decision you want, but God knows what you’re going to do by that decision. My reasoning does kind of seem paradoxical, but I think we can’t fully understand it because God is outside of our 3-dimensional linear thinking. Predestination shouldn’t necessarily be scary. Just my thoughts 🤷🏽♂️
@salvador trejo it’s a very complicated topic, so I personally try not to get too hung up on details which I obviously can’t fully understand. You could call it a cop-out, but I don’t think “understanding the true reality of predestination or free will” is essential to my growing of faith as a believer.
@salvador trejo i believe that predestination is an unbiblical teaching, it is nowhere to be found in the Bible, the Bible says confess and believe wholeheartedly that Jesus is Lord and u will be saved, repent and follow Jesus and spread the Gospel
I disagree that it only starts in the book of Romans/with Paul. Certain aspects have been there in different manners even from the OT in different ways and I had been wondering about it since I’ve been reading The Bible in order from the beginning. Things that immediately come to mind, if you look at Exodus, you can see God is hardening Pharaoh’s heart, in a way God has predestined that he will be used as an example. Another big one was in Isaiah, it has a lot of things like this based on prophesy. One however is Isaiah 6 where whether in vision or however, Isaiah hears God say to keep the people blind to being able to see what they’re doing, or understand with their heart so God can show them after how they need him. Also, in the New Testament before we see all sorts of comments such as “you believe because the spirit came to you and allowed you to”. One I just read which is why got me searching about this was John 6:44 ESV No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day... 65: And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
God chose Abraham, Isaac and Jacob/Israel. (not to be confused with the Jews) “You only have I chosen of all the families of the earth; therefore I will punish you for all your sins.” 1 Chrinicles 17:9 "And I will provide a place for My people Israel and will plant them so that they may dwell in a place of their own and be disturbed no more. No longer will the sons of wickedness oppress them as they did at the beginning" Hebrews 8:10 "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord, putting My Laws into their mind, and I will inscribe them upon their hearts; and I will be to them God, and they will be to Me for a people." Israel was given a news name! Isaiah 62:2 "Nations will see your righteousness, and all kings your glory. You will be called by a new name that the mouth of the LORD will bestow." And we were first called Christian at Antioch. Why is that so hard to understand, we are Israel predestined by God and out of Israel Jesus would call out his chosen as the Church. Israel is the Bride of Christ, not the church but the people of Israel.
has no ability in itself to desire or seek God because we are born spiritually dead and they deserve nothing but destruction) God chose to save some by giving them His spirit, a regeneration of their dead lost spirit, and not that it enables faith in God, but it actually produces faith in God. Which way gives God all the glory he and only he deserves? Which way will make you more grateful? That he offered you a choice, or that when you had no ability to chose Him he changed you by giving you His Spirit which actually produced the faith that you have? Salvation from start to finish is 100% The work of God which gives God all the glory. This life is not a test for us, we, his creation, are just part of the demonstration of His perfection and Glory. Once you see it you won’t be able to un see it and it will bring to 0:58 you a greater heart of thankfulness to God for what he has given you. Read Romans Chapter 9. Paul answers all the push back and questions that we self centered humans might have. Remember, our ways and our thinking are not Gods ways.
If we can agree that all children who pass away before the age of accountability go to heaven. Then clearly we as adults were all children and were at one time “predestined” to go to heaven. Through our Sin and Unrepentance we have removed ourselves from the Father. Look at 2 Peter 3:9 “ The Lord isn’t really being slow about his promise, as some people think. No, He, is being patient for your sake. HE DOES NOT WANT ANYONE TO BE DESTROYED, BUT WANTS EVERYONE TO REPENT.” None of us are better or have more favor from the Father, than anyone else. Just repent, believe Jesus died for your Sin and is your Savior, then you can join Us as His Children. ANYONE AND EVERYONE CAN DO THIS.
To god we are just robots made every atom to ever excite and knew where everything single one would be three time and it be impossible to change so you may think your in control but you real are not and I think that scares people
proorízō (which is the term that is translated predestined) is only used 6x times in the NT, none of the uses convey the theological implication of Calvinism. Chandler is presenting a soft determinism, typical of new calvinism that stresses compatibalism.
@@felixguerrero6062 I need your opinion if I tried to commit suicide would God try and stop me or would God watch me do it then burn me for all eternity?
As we know that God knows everything and nothing is hid from Him we realise that He knew before he created the angels that one third of them would ultimately go into rebellion and rebel against Him. Could this be the resulting scenario. This presented God with an unprecedented opportunity because He could use these fallen ones to beneficially tempt a new species called mankind. But those who overcome the temptations qualify to become sons and daughters of God. However without these temptations this would not be possible. It gets a bit more complicated than this because in order for the deal to work, God Himself has to become a human being that’s sacrificed. The powers of the tempting ones are so unavoidably strong that God, over and above being a sacrifice, has to help out those ones whom He knows will go in His direction, by actually helping them to go in His direction. This is called predestination. In other words He orchestrates the lives of those whom He knows will follow and obey Him, in such a way that they can do exactly that.
Mark Ross You Sir are ignorant as to the realities of existence clearly documented in the Bible, but because you don’t like that story you’d rather read books about little tin soldiers and Mary Poppins. And then you have the height of ignorance to spew forth that crazy nonsense by describing the God described in the Bible as being sick and evil. What’s wrong with you? Don’t you have any wisdom at all?
@@paulwilfridhunt You portray and promote and unjust and unloving god. Start reading your bible only. Stop reading your calvinist indoctrination books.
Mark Ross God exists. He created the angels. He knows everything. He knew before creating the angels that one third of them would rise up in rebellion against Him. He knew He could turn this into an unprecedented opportunity. He could use them to tempt a new species to become copies of Himself if they didn’t succumb to the temptation. He said let us make man in our image. The temptation was to rebel against God. But in order to make the deal work God Himself has to become a man and be sacrificed. The new species is called mankind. Their problem is going to be handling their incredulous inferiority to God. He provides a way to do this. They need to join forces and synergise with Him. They do this by worshipping Him and loving Him. But He realises that the majority of this new species will turn against Him. He will only get few to follow Him. He weighs it all up. He decides to do it for the sake of the few. They get everlasting life and are to be copies of Himself. But He has to destroy those who oppose His great plan for mankind. But not only must He destroy them He has to also destroy their rebellion. Eventually in hell they come to their senses and realise they blew it and that they do need to be destroyed. There’s no plan B. That’s it in a nut shell. Also God foresaw that the tempting ones would also be the instigators of pain, heartache and suffering. They are behind wars and mayhem and pestilence. The innocent would suffer. However God in His justice makes recompense to those who unjustly suffer by making heavenly compensations. Although we don’t know exactly how this plays out we do know that we can count on the justice of God. There is sufficient evidence in the bible that God doesn’t have people in hell in perpetuity. What would you do if you were God with those who rejected your offer of Godhood and everlasting life and there was no plan B? He has to destroy their souls and their unjustified antipathy for Him. He has to rid the universe of all that crap thinking. Let’s say you are one that elects to not believe in God. In hell you’ll eventually allow yourself to realise that you didn’t believe in His existence because you didn’t want to. And you didn’t want to believe because you didn’t like your incredulous inferiority to God. But here during your earthly sojourn you didn’t want to realise this. You were tempted to rebel against God and as of this present moment you have succumbed to it. It’s better to realise all this right now than realise it in hell when it’s too late to change sides. Change sides now before it’s too late.
Mark Ross It seems that we have both misunderstood and therefore misjudged each other. My apologies. I see that you are not what I thought you were. I am not a Calvinist. My view of predestination greatly differs from their view. Perhaps we are both on the same page, after all. If you’d care to take a look at my primitive attempt to describe this it’s on my video below in the link. Blessings to you. ua-cam.com/video/mJvaEQLvALs/v-deo.html Man I look like a yo-yo with the cowboy hat and whiskers, don’t I. That’s old age for you.
God predestined the plan. Not the man. James chapter 3 tells us every human is made in the likeness of God to be conformed to the image of His son. GOD predestined the PLAN. From the beginning of time God knew what was going to happen when He created man. Jesus and the Holy Spirit were with the Father from before time began. God gave us what we needed to be conformed to the image of His son. Jesus Christ. God sent out Jesus Christ to pay the atonement of our sins. Paul tells us also in Ephesians that he prepared works for us to do in advance THAT WE should WALK IN them. By NOT choosing to respond to what God has done for us to save us, we will spend eternity separated from Him. And, that only makes sense. If we never choose to love God back after He has done EVERYTHING for us, it only makes sense that God has nothing but His wrath stored up for you. God predestined the PLAN. NOT THE MAN!!!!!!
Universal predestination is not biblical. It teaches that no matter what you do or who you preach to or what they believe, there is no changing your fate or the fate of others. So much for any scripture that begins with "If ye". And what is the purpose of the great commission if not to lead people out of sin if God is going to lead them out of sin or keep them in sin anyway. This is a false doctrine. Some where predestinated according to scripture and they were predestinated before the foundation of the world. But not all for the Word of God and the purpose of Christ would be nullified. To understand how some where predestinated before the foundation of the world, one must understand what the foundation of the world is and what was happening then. What was before the foundation of the world? The fall of Lucifer when his tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth. The stars of heaven are children of God. This means that he drew them away from God and introduced them to sin (wordly sin) just as he introduced sin into the garden. There was a judgment that occurred at that time which sentenced Lucifer and his angels to eternal condemnation. If this judgment condemned some, then it would make sense that the same judgment justified others that stood against it. Those others were the ones who were predestinated. They were justified then and they have one mission in the flesh and that is to preach God and Christ. They have no choice. All others have the choice to come to Christ or not. It is their belief (an act) that earns them salvation, not predestination. The teaching of universal predestination is a false doctrine that has driven MANY away from Christ thinking that there is no hope for them or that nothing they can do will change their eternal status. It nullifies Christ, repentance, and keeping the ways of God.
Are they Hebrews? *so am I*. Are they Israelites? *so am I*. Are they the seed of Abraham? *so am I.* 2 Corinthians 11:22 KJVA "my kinsmen according to the flesh: who are Israelites; *to whom pertaineth* the adoption, and the glory, and *the covenants* (old and new), and the giving of the law, and the service of God , *and the promises* ; whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came , who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. Romans 9:3-5 KJVA "I say then, Hath God cast away his people _Israel_? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away his people _Israel_ which he foreknew. Romans 11:1-2 KJVA "For whom he did foreknow (ie. Israel), he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. *Moreover, whom he did predestinate, them he also called*: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. Romans 8:29-30 KJVA "according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: *having predestinated us* (Israel) unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, in whom *WE* (Israel) have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; Ephesians 1:4-5, 7 KJVA "But we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, *brethren beloved* (Jer 12:7) of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and *hold the traditions* which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle. 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15 KJVA
Thus says The Lord: By My prophets have I made My plans known. Yet that which I am about to do is done already, and shall be. And that which I have spoken from the beginning, even to this day, is true. For the will of God can not be broken, even as The Scriptures. And if My every word is Scripture, then how shall even one word fail? Yet My people fall away, and My little flock grows smaller still. For they seek to loosen these bonds in an attempt to flee this bundle. For the Way of The Lord is not known among them, and My words have ceased from being a blessing. And so they flee back into the world in an attempt to escape, as in all times past, for they have no root. Yet I tell you the truth, none shall escape their bundle. For all bundles lie in the field already, each one tied securely and set in its place. Therefore as one attempts to flee this bundle, the truth of the matter is made plain. For they have not departed at all, but remain in the bundle in which I had placed them at the first. I AM THE LORD.Beloved ones, I search the hearts and minds, even the innermost thoughts I know; even from the foundation of the world did I know each one of you, setting you in your place from the beginning. Yet some will say, “What of free will and our right to choose?” To these I say: You have chosen, and the will of your heart has spoken, and thus were you bundled and prepared. For I know My own. Thus the Bride is chosen; My blood runs through her veins, My image is shown upon her face... Behold, the light of My coming is reflected In her eyes, for I have captured her gaze, And she will by no means look away Or seek after another... Therefore some are plucked from The world already, and shall also be taken; They shall surely be gone from this place!... Says The Lord. Source: trumpetcallofgodonline.com/index.php5?title=The_Harvest_Is_Separated%2C_All_Bundles_Set_in_Their_Places
I like your message BUT in the last part... I think I cannot agree with you when you said: God has ordained to accomplish His purpose through the prayers of His people.. =>>> In the first place it is no longer ordained if God needs the prayers of His people... and 2nd, I don't think there is a Scripture for that idea... Thanks any way for the good message brother....
Pastor, I respectfully disagree with your teaching on Calvinism and since you are a Calvinist yet your preaching is not according to Calvin's doctrine on predestination. I don't deny "predestinate" is mentioned in the bible but it was wrongly applied and twisted. But in case you still doubt his position, allow me to share with you this excerpt from Calvin's Section 5 in Chapter 21: read below for yourself; "All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death." Certainly all the viewers of this video will agree your teaching as a calvinist is not of what Calvin taught, as the viewers have the reference above on Calvin's Section 5 in Chapter 21. Anyone can comment, please. Thanks
@@cmhardin37 , I partly disagreed with you as Christians, we are to abide in the Word. Certainly we should care and contend with the heresy of Calvin as the following verse affirmed; (Jud 1:3) Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Sorry to disagree with you but you are quoting from Calvin's theology not from the Bible. Just remember that the Bible was given to us by God and not by John Calvin.
@@benmeitzen4184 Romans 9 by reading it in its context, it is not talking about individual's salvation or soteriology. The prologue of Romans 9:1-5 clearly Paul was talking about the Israelites, his brethren in the flesh which ultimately be the bloodline that would bring about the Jewish Messiah in verse 5. The rest of the verses in romans 9 referred to God's Sovereignty in choosing the bloodline of Abraham to bring about Jesus, the Messiah. Read the bloodline of Jesus in Matthew 1:1-17 and it was that sovereign choice of God that preordained his Son, Jesus would come from. It is an error to affirm that romans 9 is talking about man's salvation as it is evidenced by scripture. Further, Calvin taught the doctrine of double-predestination which is nowhere mentioned in the bible. Thus Calvin was wrong about this.
Because GOD works in His Immortality and Omniscience. GOD already knew who believed when the gospel was preached. GOD already knew before the world existed. Those who have been known by GOD, they are called to hear the message of the gospel, and those who believe in the message of the gospel, those who are sealed with the HOLY SPIRIT, and given the Faith of Salvation in JESUS CHRIST. Believe in the gospel message then sealed with the HOLY SPIRIT and have the Faith of Salvation in JESUS CHRIST. Believe in the gospel message, then repentance occurs. Repentance is what it means to be born of water. Water baptism is a sign of repentance. Sealed with the HOLY SPIRIT is being born from the SPIRIT. The human heart is born again, because the HOLY SPIRIT is in the human conscience saved by GOD.
Sometimes it is better to keep quiet and just shrug rather than ramble on UA-cam for 3 1/2 minutes about nonsense that you really don't quite understand. Preach the gospel. You know, the news that is too good to be true. Leave theology to those who don't know God yet think they understand Him and His intentions.
You're conflating the false doctrine of predestination with foreordination. We were all foreordained to do certain things but not everyone measures up. "Many are called but few are chosen" chosen means that they have chosen to follow God and Christ and in doing so have qualified themselves, it's nothing to do with predestination. That is called foreordination.
Aaah FALSE GOSPEL ALERT. That explains a lot. Giving your life to Jesus IS NOT HOW a person gets saved like youre some prize. Its because He gave His life for us. Why even witness if thats the case? Sumo wrestling those scriptures like a pro... SMH THATS WICKED DISGUSTING EVIL
We are predestined to 3 things: 1. Good works (Eph. 2:10), 2. The image of the Son (Ro. 8:29), and 3. To the adoption (Eph. 1:5). The only people who are predestined to these things are chosen IN Christ by faith (Eph. 1:4a, Ro. 5:1-2). All people who are not in Christ are predestined for hell (John 3:18).
Joseph Durraz that’s not what I said. No one is predestined for salvation until after they have faith in Christ and are born again Eph. 1:13, Titus 3:5-6. Calvinists confuse God’s passive foreknowledge with his active predestination.
@@thumper5832, Yes we predestined for salvation before the foundation of the world =>> >> Ephesians 1:4 (KJV) According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: =>>> >>> >>> NOTE: We are chosen before the foundation of the world... But it take effect after we are born and heard the gospel, and believed, and sealed with the Holy Spirit... It simply means, a long time before we are born, we are already chosen by God... As simple as that... I am not a Calvinist but I agree with the Calvinist regarding this... =>>>>>> The anti Calvinist think that all the doctrines of Calvin is wrong... BUT the fact is that in the TULIP, aside from predestination before the foundation of the world, 'L' and the 'P' are True and biblical... Jesus Christ died only for the Elect(Sheep) and None of the Sheep can lost his salvation...
@@thumper5832, We are chosen in Him before we are in Jesus.... We were chosen in Him since the foundation of the world... That is before Jesus was even born to redeem as from the hand of satan.... Before we are born we are already the seed of God... And we belong to God... After the Fall of Adam and Eve, All the descendants of Adam and Eve inherited the Sinful nature and we lost our fellowship with our Father God.... So in due time God sent Jesus Christ to Redeem us from satan... To Redeem means to take back by paying... Please read MATTHEW 13:24-43 (KJV) for more enlightenment.....
a complete sidestep from standard calvinism into arminian territory. he has to know piper and macarthur etc. do teach that results (namely wrath or salvation) are predetermined, nullifying human will.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Predestination is difficult to accept because man’s heart is self centered and humanistic. We do not believe it cause Augustine or Calvin taught it. We believe it cause it is an undeniable truth in the Word of God!
James Fulp, I disagree with your notion that "predestination is difficult to accept because man's is self centered and humanistic". Only those who are ignorant of the bible dosen't accept the concept of predestination as it is clearly taught in the bible. But Calvinism twisted the bible and taught a double-predestination doctrine instead which the bible never taught. Calvinism is a heretical teaching.
Very profound and easy to understand explanation!! Appreciate it!!
I know in my own life, I would've NEVER found God. NOTHING in me knew Him or drew me to Him. If it wasn't HIS Inner Work and Sealing, I would've gone into an eternity without knowing Him at all.
Paul had to be knocked off a horse: Not by his choice but to be given a Life he would've NEVER found on his own. In one of his writings he said "in me, that is in my flesh, dwells no good thing". Since the flesh is connected to religion and not salvation, all the 'goodness' cannot lead to God. (Ask a Pharisee!!!).
"NO MAN can come to the Father unless he is drawn BY HIM." It's against ego to admit I cannot 'accept' or 'call for' God and get the level of Sonship that only comes by the Sealing of the Holy Spirit. One can accept Christ without being Born from Above.
A revelation from Jeremiah was that God called and ordained this prophet before the foundation of the world!!! (Jer 1:4). Jeremiah did not go to an altar call or say a sinner's prayer!!!!
I don't understand the whole of Predestination nor could I; otherwise I'd be God!!! I accept the little bits and pieces that are revealed and focus more on daily surrender and obedience, making sure that no part of my life is my own and that I'm not counting my earthly life dear unto myself.
God chooses. God chooses not. God also allows "eyes not to see, ears not to hear": HE'S God. Yes, people have a sort-of free will but if one believes their will can supersede the Divine Will, that person is delusional. (Ask lucifer). God will appear unfair to those who don't understand God's Mind / Will. The whole cannot be figured out with a peanut brain. Does not the Potter have power over the clay to make one vessel this way and another that way?
One does not need to understand how an airplane works to get a ride from point A to point B. The goal is to Rest and Trust, not try to figure anything out. It's the enemy that has always used doubt to get the tiny human mind involved with questions and keep one from Trusting like a child (who trusts without knowing everything).
Nothing can be done apart from Him. Humans are sustained by air (earth breath); True Borns are alive by Eternal Air (Spirit breath). Choosing to live or Live is not of man, who cannot by thinking or will add one day to his stature.
I respect this fully
GOD/ABBA FATHER ALREADY KNOWS THOSE OF US WHO ARE HIS CHILDREN. WE ARE ALL HIS CREATION BUT WE ARE NOT AL OF HIS CHILDREN👑🕊️👑✝️👑♥️
It was many years before God impressed one message in me-We aren't here to prove predestination/election but to preach and teach Christ came to save us from sin. Those that will listen will, and those that won't won't. We are not worthy to decide who will and who won't and are to never make that judgement our self but to continue preaching/teaching Christ.
I know many people that claim to believe in free will that truly have had a salvation experience with God and some that believe in predestination/election that have also. My belief is they are both right but it's all about perspective and neither have God's perspective on the work of the Holy Spirit. Preach/teach the word and let God do the rest.
“You have to do something with predestination” - that is so true!! Sadly many just don’t “like” the word so they twist it to mean what they want it to mean….
God dignifies us with free will, the power to make decisions of our own rather than having God or fate predetermine what we do. Consider what the Bible teaches.
God created humans in his image. (Genesis 1:26) Unlike animals, which act mainly on instinct, we resemble our Creator in our capacity to display such qualities as love and justice. And like our Creator, we have free will.
To a great extent, we can determine our future. The Bible encourages us to “choose life . . . by listening to [God’s] voice,” that is, by choosing to obey his commands. (Deuteronomy 30:19, 20) This offer would be meaningless, even cruel, if we lacked free will. Instead of forcing us to do what he says, God warmly appeals to us: “O if only you would actually pay attention to my commandments! Then your peace would become just like a river.”-Isaiah 48:18.
Our success or failure is not determined by fate. If we want to succeed at an endeavor, we must work hard. “All that your hand finds to do,” says the Bible, “do with your very power.”(Ecclesiastes 9:10) It also says: “The plans of the diligent one surely make for advantage.”-Proverbs 21:5.
Free will is a precious gift from God, for it lets us love him with our “whole heart”-because we want to.-Matthew 22:37.
Doesn’t God control all things?
The Bible does teach that God is Almighty, that his power is not limited by anyone other than himself. (Job 37:23; Isaiah 40:26) However, he does not use his power to control everything. For example, the Bible says that God was “exercising self-control” toward ancient Babylon, an enemy of his people. (Isaiah 42:14) Similarly, for now, he chooses to tolerate those who misuse their free will to harm others. But God will not do so indefinitely.-Psalm 37:10, 11.
So in your view, you have room to boast because you were smart enough to believe when it was offered to you. Gods word teaches just the opposite. God did not set this up as a test. He created all things to display his perfection and glory. Gods has chosen to save some although none deserve being saved as all are born dead and lost in their sinful nature. You can’t believe the offer of salvation because you are dead! Satan is so sly. He wants God to not receive the glory and praise he deserves. So instead of us understanding that we must be born again before we can have faith, Satan turned it around and told us that we must have faith to be born again. Which gives so many the delusion that they are saved when they are not. It gives us some of the credit, the glory for our faith when all the glory belongs to God the only one who is perfection. This is why Jesus warned that many will stand before him and say that they did all these things in his name, but he will answer, I never knew you. The Bible tells us to test ourselves to make that we are in the faith and that our Election is sure (election is Gods decision not ours). Read Romans ch 9. Paul explains all your push back and questions on the matter.
@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts we have free will to live in our dead lost sinful state and while the offer of the Gospel goes out into the world, only those who have been born again by Gods spirit will have true faith. Jesus told Nichodemus that no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again of the spirit. And then he said the wind blows where it will and so it is with the spirit of God. Salvation is 100% the work of God so much so that it is God that keeps those he has chosen unto glorification and Jesus said that he will not loose a single one that has been given to him. Salvation is not dependent on you it is completely dependent on God from start to finish. We self centered humans get it backwards when we think we become born again once we believe. The Bible teaches just the opposite. We only truly believe if God has first baptized us by his spirit. Our ways and thoughts are not Gods ways.
Foreknowledge: To know ahead of time. Isaiah 46:9-10 He says He is the only God and proves it by saying He knows the end from the beginning. God's unique foreknowledge is just one of His characteristics which show Him to be the ONLY God. There is no suggestion there that He uses this to determine the future. Romans does not say we are predestined "to be saved.," but rather to be made in the likeness of Jesus - loving, holy, joyful, etc. And our experience of the new birth gives us attitudes, behavior, characters which demonstrate our HOPE, a hope that will cause people to inquire about the reasons for the hope that lies within us. Praise the Lord!
4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will
This clearly says he chose us before creation for adoption to sonship (meaning to be saved) and he did it by his own good pleasure meaning his sovereign right to choose..
And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac 11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), 12 it was said to her, “The older shall serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.”
Israel’s Rejection and God’s Justice
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! 15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.”
@@ShanandHaileylisten to the person above you ma’am ☝🏼☝🏼
Predestination means if you're truly follower of Christ your destination is with Christ it doesn't mean he predestined people before they were born it means their destination is heaven for the followers of
Phillip Crockett no it actually means before you were born he already chose you.. scripture supports this 💯 %
Phillip Crockett, Yes, God predestined you since the foundation of the world because He knows that you will believe in Jesus... He predestined you to be saved, but you need to know the gospel and believe and receive the Holy Spirit and be born again to be saved....
no predestinatio is simple pre- before destination = place God has prepared a place for every Believer. God through the Apostle Paul is telling the church they will end up with him in the afterlife. stop overthinking the text people. and you will be finallyconformed to his image glorification
I think that well meaning men have muddy’d the waters with their opinions about predestination which has led to misunderstanding and alienation. Just let scripture explain itself,John3:16-For God so loved who(the WORLD)that he gave his only begotten son that(WHOSOEVER) believes in him will not perish, but have eternal life. After people exercise their God-given free will to accept or reject, then predestination kicks in Matthew 25 there are only two categories of folk in the world; sheep & goats, whichever choice a person chooses has a “predestined”destination if you will. We choose to be either sheep or goats; no more, no less. God through his son has given us his “Word”❤and he is not a man that he should lie Num 23:19🙏🏾
@@josephdurraz8574begin here; God created everything to display His perfection and Glory. With that as the starting point, which way brings God the greatest glory? That he offers you salvation (dangles the carrot) and lets you decide, or that out of all of humanity (that has no ability in itself to desire or seek God because we are born spiritually dead and they deserve nothing but destruction) God chose to save some by giving them His spirit, a regeneration of their dead lost spirit, and not that it enables faith in God, but it actually produces faith in God. Which way gives God all the glory he and only he deserves? Which way will make you more grateful? That he offered you a choice, or that when you had no ability to chose Him he changed you by giving you His Spirit which actually produced the faith that you have? Salvation from start to finish is 100% The work of God which gives God all the glory. This life is not a test for us, we, his creation, are just part of the demonstration of His perfection and Glory. Once you see it you won’t be able to un see it and it will bring to 0:58 you a greater heart of thankfulness to God for what he has given you. Read Romans Chapter 9. Paul answers all the push back and questions that we self centered humans might have. Remember, our ways and our thinking are not Gods ways.
It's very simple, God predestined everyone from the begging of time to become his child. Then he gave them a choice to either accept him or reject him. Now there you have it believe it or not. That is your choice given to you by God almighty and there's nothing more to add or subtract. Thank you!
I've never read a single verse that says that.
@@benmeitzen4184 names can be blotted out so..... Idk ??
@@tsapp2831 Sorry, but what do you mean by "names can be blotted out"?
@@benmeitzen4184 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Revelation:3:5And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Revelation:22:19
@@tsapp2831 Okay yeah these are both great passages. Most reformed Christians would say that for those who are truly in Christ and have truly been adopted the gift of salvation is eternally secure. "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you" 1 Peter 1:3-4
Why do people get these words twisted. Creation was predestined. Genesis 1:31. Everything after Genesis 1:31 is God reconciling His creation not only people but the universe back to Genesis 1:31 again. People are not individually predestined. Election- Election has nothing to do with Salvation. Was Pharaoh elected? Yes. Was Judas Elected? Yes. Was either one of them saved? No!!! Not because they didn't have a choice. God gave pharaoh 9 chances before He (God) left his heart hard. How did Paul answer the jailor? What must I do to be saved? What must a person do to be saved? If your answer is different from Paul's... You have a problem. Not Paul or God. Stop twisting the scriptures to fit a man made Doctrine. Before you quote the Potter and the clay...finish that story. The two greatest commandments are LOVE. If LOVE is by force or compelling then it isn't LOVE by definition.
Dean Kooper Pharaohs hardness of Heart was a result of his rebellion of the warnings given by God.. (Therefore God hardened his heart) His FREE WILL was to have his heart hardened against God. It’s a consequence of sin, not God forcibly making him rebellious. James 1:13 “For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone” ..Also Calvinism like Arminianism came later after Luther’s death.. Martin Luther wasn’t a Calvinist.
Romans 4:3 “For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham (1)BELIEVED God, and (2)it was counted to him as righteousness.” I don’t believe God forces Himself onto anyone, but is clearly patient throughout all of scripture, waiting on Israel/OT and now waiting on ALL people to believe in Christ Jesus. (2 Peter 3:9) The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is PATIENT with you, not wanting ANYONE to perish, but EVERYONE to COME TO REPENTANCE. (Acts 16:31) “What must I do to be saved?” “BELIEVE on The Lord Jesus and you will be saved.” There is a huge misconception that faith is a “work of righteousness”. Our faith didn’t save us, it simply received the GIFT!! This isn’t a contradiction, we still did nothing to earn it..
@@koopeda,
Dean Kooper, Dean Kooper,
Definitely 'Election and Predestination' is biblical,
but NOT 'Calvin's Election
and Predestination'.....
Calvin's doctrine of 'Election and Predestination' is 'Biblical
Truth mixed with
man-made Lies'
John Calvin did not fully
understand the Bible's
doctrine of 'Election and Predestination', so he added his own understanding to this biblical Truth.....
'Truth mixed with Lies' is
more dangerous than Lies
alone.....
Calvinism is an evil doctrine.....
@@koopeda,
First of all, I am not Arminian....
To prove my point, Please
read this statement of John Calvin and tell me if
this is Scriptural....
''God arranges all things by His Sovereign counsel,
in such a way that individuals are born, who are doomed from the womb to certain death, and are to glorify Him by their destruction.''
Now prove to me with Biblical Support, that this
belief of Calvin is indeed Scriptural.....Because the
way I see, it is evil....
Thanks....
@@koopeda,
Yes, I have read Romans 9
several times..... But it has
nothing to do with what I
said....
It has nothing to do also whether Calvin started
Calvinism or Agustin ....
The point is that everyone
calls it Calvinism....
What I said is Calvinism is a mixture of Biblical Truth and man-made Lies....
So quoting me Romans 9 has nothing to do with it,
What matters is the mixture of man-made Lies.....
You did not yet answer my
first Question....
After we settled with my first Question, I will Give
you Scriptural Proof that
Calvin missed and therefore he added his own understanding without Scriptural Support .....
This is my First Question :
Please explain what Calvin meant with this
Statement :
''God arranges all things by His Sovereign counsel,
in such a way that individuals are born, who are doomed from the womb to certain death, and are to glorify Him by their destruction.''
NOTE :
The way I see, it is an evil
doctrine..... and is NOT
Supported by the Scriptures.....
@@koopeda,
''...the answer to your question is in Romans 9.
God is glorified in sending
people to hell...'' => from
your post
Sorry, I did not see it in Romans 9.
Can you please specify what particular verse is
that?...... Thanks.....
Yes you do need to do something with predestination. Your Destiny from God can’t be fulfilled without your own action. God won’t do it for you, he will only help you. You need to make the right choices for yourself and with people and your will must be strong and you must guide yourself.
Many are called Chosen are few..
Total nonsense. Sinners through Adam's sin will not and cannot come to Christ. You can't expect any cooperation with God's grace since that is the case.
@@jchan810 Is your salvation completely passive, you don't have to do anything at all?
@@TheMOV13 you do but God fulfills what you must do. Faith is from God
Predestination is anything that God prepares to do in advance. Calvinists have redefined the term to mean Calvinism.
Well said Thank you!
Where in the original langue does it say that predestination means "what God prepares in advance"?
@@6.0hhh Where in the original language does it say that predestination means that God "decreed whatsoever comes to pass"?
@@richardcoords1610 you didn't answer my question. Why?
Richard Coords, your answer is correct , the Bible doesn’t really explain the meaning of that verse, others have made up all kinds of teachings over it. Especially that heretic Calvin !
It is not God's will that any should perish but all would come to repentance and eternal life. God gives each person a choice whether they want to be saved or not. God's Spirit first touches a person and then the person has to respond
Is that in conflict with predestination?
The Bible is very clear on predestination believe it or not
Dennis, do not take 2 Peter 3:9 out of context. The "any" and the "all" are referring to the beloved, namely the audience of believers that Peter is addressing. Peter says in the same chapter just a few verses earlier that God has reserved a day of judgment where he will destroy mockers, scoffers and the rest of his enemies.
Thank you, brother Chandler
''He destroyeth the perfect and the wicked'' Job 9:22
Calvinism's view of predestination removes free will, it removes God's desire to save all people, it removes Jesus' death for all people. It makes prayers, fasting, and evangelism for your lost friend or family member pointless. God either wants to save them or He doesn't. Nothing you can do about it. What a sad misrepresentation of the God of love found in the Bible
Whosoever Will, it's a thing!!!
My take on the whole predestination deal is this.
As God knows everything He therefore knew before creating the angels that there would eventually be a rebellion in heaven with one third of the angelic realm rebelling against Him.
But He also knew that He could turn this situation into an unprecedented opportunity. Therefore He went ahead with plan to create the angels.
He realised it would be possible to create a new species, namely mankind, that could actually eventually become copies of Himself, made in His image, if He used the rebels as tempters to tempt man to become rebels.
But those who overcome the temptations to rebel against God and instead become loyal to God, would qualify with the new character developed in overcoming the temptations, to actually become sons and daughters of God.
However the tempters would be very successful at tempting mankind because many would succumb to the temptations resulting in the manifestation of either atheism or outright sinning manifesting in disobedience to God’s rules or commandments.
Therefore the fall of the fallen angels was indirectly responsible for providing the opportunity for man to eventually become copies of God.
However God obviously knew that if He created mankind He would loose many to the temptations of Satan and the fallen angels, but because of the few whom He knew would take his deal, He deemed the loss of the lost, those who wouldn’t pass the test, as somehow being a worthwhile sacrifice.
But obviously God also knew before creating the angels or mankind that He would have to throw Himself into the deal to make it work. He knew He’d have to become Jesus Christ and be sacrificed.
God also knew that the powers of the tempting ones would be such that if He didn’t help those whom He knew would go in His direction, they wouldn’t make it.
So therefore He helps them to repent by orchestrating their life so they can.
The bible calls this predestination.
Genesis 1:26-28 King James Version (KJV)
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
There you have it.
Thank you! well said!!!
sounds like a fairy tale slapped on what is probably just an experiment.
rabbitcreative Hello there dear Rabbit,
I’m not sure that makes much sense.
A fairy tale?
What exactly do you mean?
Perhaps you might care to enlighten us.
Ramona Gaibor thank you
@Suzu Wuzu God knows everything. He knew before He created mankind that they would bring Him to the point that He got to before the Flood. However I think we can assume that if He knew that there wouldn’t be any righteous ones at all, such as the 8 people on the ark, and it was going to be necessary to destroy them all, sparing no one, then He wouldn’t have made man in the first place.
So if many are called but few are chosen, and if not one of those chosen by Jesus will be lost, then why really do anything other than what I want to do because apparently I am going to go to wherever regardless of what I do? And also, if I am a sheep, then why should I trust my own judgement to begin with because from what I've heard sheep aren't really that bright?
6 months and no answer to your question? Thats the one that ALWAYS gets them. Because Calvinism has to throw out common sense and reasoning out the window on the subject.
I think you haven’t grasped the idea 💡 of Calvinism.
Of course do what you want. If you sre if the Lord you will hear his voice when he calls you and if you are of the devil you will hear that call. God knows how you will act, react and what you will choose you have free will. He knew some people will just NOT accept being saved, they want to know things our minds are not capable of comprehending. If you already have that attitude of oh well I will do what i want then you maybe right about doing what you want. But if you say it is my choice because i choose look for the Lord and reject sin then God knew you would react that way too because it is your choice. He just knew what you would choose. You have the choice and you will still be held accountable for either one. You talk about sheeps of not being bright, its just an example of when God speaks his sons will hear him.its your choice its your life. You cant blame God or anyone else. You choose. God knew what you would choose
I understand what this video is trying to explain but you're right. Predestination is a false doctrine. They are conflating it with the doctrine of foreordination. Predestination means that we are destined before hand to follow a certain path, we may deviate from that path but God has a path laid out for us from birth according to this doctrine and I just can't accept that a loving God would create us to fail. It's false.
Jordan Forbes I think God knows what path we are going to take in our life- but in a sense we are not necessarily limited by that. For example, if we accept Jesus’s invitation to his kingdom, repent and turn away from sin, there is nothing necessarily stopping you from doing that. That was the predestined plan in the first place, if that is the decision you take. Predestination is not necessarily a “brick wall” where you want to become a Christian and God doesn’t let you. It’s different than that. And yes, my explanation does seem like a paradox, but I think we can’t fully understand it because God is outside of our 3-dimensional linear thinking. Just my thoughts 🤷🏽♂️
It seems to me that this is a distraction subject. I prefer to keep it simple and take God at his word. The offer of salvation is on the table. Either one can accept it or reject it. For a person to say that he or she was predetermined strikes me to be walking into the weeds of ego and even pride and possibly riddled with much folly. All are sinners. All struggle with it, saved or not. There's a sinner's judgement and there's an elect judgement. All must give an account. I pray that no matter what happens with me in my life for that God to never let me go. To be the Father that he promises to be. Spank me when I need it. Protect me when I need it. And help me to understand Him better.
@@Isaac-wl6wuSure I have. Will read again.
Yessssss. I always ask God tell me my wrongs ( heart) and help me not do them anymore
You said it, “seems to me”. Your ways are not Gods ways. Simply read Romans chapter 9 as Paul answers all your push back and questions on the matter or how salvation occurs. The purpose of of God creating us was not to put us to a test to see if we would believe once we heard his offer, but it was to display that only he is perfection and that only he deserves praise and glory. Would you give greater praise to God for offering you salvation and letting YOU chose or, God simply choosing you as one of many from all the spiritually dead and lost of all of humanity to give to you the rebirth of his spirit which actually produced faith, the faith that you in no way could ever have or sustain. A free gift that you didn’t deserve or could never, ever produce. Which way gives God the glory and not you? And that is the answer. Once you see it you won’t be able to unsee it and you will see it through all of scripture. It will also bring you to a place of giving God all praise and glory and a greater thankfulness for what he has given you
Biblical predestination is correct. However, deterministic theism was introduced to Christianity by Augustine and was later reappropriated by Calvin. Chandler is just trying to present a sugar coated form of Calvinism, but this is disengenuous. As he elsewhere present himself as a classic Calvinist. Historic biblical Christianity (particularly the church father) has always taught, free will, in opposition to the stoics and gnostics whose believed in absolute determinism and unconditional election. Augustine's incorporations of these belief later in life has been one of the most damaging events in Western Christianity.
Question for you. Best place to learn about Biblical predestination?
The Bible nowhere teaches that natural men have free will to do good or evil, it teaches that the natural man is a slave to sin and salvation doesn't depend on those who will or work, but on God alone.
Why Israel or abraham only but no haran and terAH not all nations if predestination as taught calvin is unbiblical
Let me see if I am getting the right. A majority of humans before they are borne and before they commit a sinful act are DAMNED to HELL for eternity, and then God blames the DAMNED for being DAMNED even though God made them that way. Am I missing something?
What a great explanation of predestination!
Everything that happens in history has been decreed/Predestined before the world was created see Eph 1:11, Proverbs 16:33 and Amos 3:6. And yes even when terrible things happen, I know it's hard for some people to accept but look what happened when David sinned against God and one of Davids punishments was that God told him that he was going to use Davids own son to shame his Father by Absalom Absalom doing something immoral to his Fathers concubines in front of all of Israel, see 2 Samuel 12:11-12 God said "Thus says the Lord, ‘Behold, I will raise up evil against you from your own household; I will even take your wives before your eyes and give them to your companion, and he will lie with your wives in broad daylight. Indeed you did it secretly, but I will do this thing before all Israel, and under the sun." Notice how God said "I WILL DO THIS THING."That was fulfilled in 2 Samuel 16:21-22. Jesus did not die for every single person ever and Jesus didn't die to make people savable. He died to save his elect. In John 17:9 Jesus said that he does not pray for the world. The word world is used in different contexts, in that context he's talking about the non elect. In John 3:16 world means that he purchased people from every tribe, tongue and nation Rev 5:9 and for the children of God scattered abroad John 11:52. Some have been "long beforehand marked out for condemnation" Jude 4 and "appointed to doom." 1 Peter 2:8. About Pharaoh God said “For this VERY PURPOSE I raised you up, to demonstrate My power in you, and that My name might be proclaimed throughout the whole earth.” So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires." Rom 9:17-18. Jesus said "I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to infants. Yes, Father, for this way was well-pleasing in Your sight. All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him." Matthew 11:25-27. So, 2 Pet 3:9 the "not willing that any should perish" if you read that letter in context, 2 Pet 1:1 says "To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours." As far as salvation for all men verses, Paul was refuting the false notion of his time that God was only desiring to save just the Jews and 1 Tim 2:2 says to pray "for kings and all who are in authority" because as humans WE DON'T KNOW WHO THE ELECT ARE SO WE PRAY FOR EVERYONE! That's what it means in verse 4 by saying "all men." Amos 3:2 God said "of all the nations of the earth I have only known you." For centuries God passed over the majority of humankind because this verse isn't about knowledge it's about relationship. And it isn't because God foresaw Israel was more righteous then the other nations because sometimes Israel was more sinful then the pagan nations see 2 Kings 21:9. Only those who were predestined to be saved will be see Acts 13:48, Ephesians 1:4-5, Eph 1:11, Romans 9:11-23, John 6:37. 1 Samuel 3:14 God said “Therefore I have sworn to the house of Eli that the iniquity of Eli’s house shall not be atoned for by sacrifice or offering forever.” That's Limited atonement.
This was what I expected as an explanation for predestination. Its nonsensical and does not even address the real issues that cause this topic to be so decisive among fellow believers. It seems to me the problem with predestination is that it wholly rewrites and challenges large portions of what virtually all Christians believe to be true about the God of Abraham and where we fit in as humans. It also greatly complicates the age old 'problem with evil'. If God knows from the beginning who will be saved and who won't, that means he knowingly created most of humanity to function as nothing more that clay pots to be broken. Most people walking the earth and those that have ever lived are merely vessels of wrath, fitted for destruction. This totally negates the universal belief that God is omnibenevolent. It more than just suggests that to the point-of-view of a large portion of humanity; God is in-fact the enemy of mankind, as well as its creator. This further complicates the problem with evil. It makes Satan and his demons redundant in some ways. It also give Lucifer a scapegoat for his rebellion against God. As who is to say that God didn't also know that Lucifer was going to stand against him, thus just like the rest of mankind, destined for the fires of hell; Lucifer was merely God's first victim. After all, he set the rules up for most of his creations to fail and suffer for it, by no fault of their own. This is not to mention that it also negates the belief that humans were given free will. The ability to choose through our actions whether or not we will attain the splendor of heaven through our actions in this life. Predestination effectively asserts that not even accepting Christ would save you from your destined outcome. To this day, I've yet to have anybody give me any good answer for this. Its always either word salad like what I just heard from this video that explains nothing. Or it is a simple 'catholic style' command that I must take this on faith. Followed by condemnation for daring to question. (Also in typical style of the Catholics)
This is exactly how I feel! Very well written!
I feel like this predestination thing is missing gods love. Hard to think of a father to predestine one of his kids to fail and the other to succeed and be able to look both of them in the face and say I love you both equally
I totally believe in the doctrine of predestination and Election, this fits with what the scripture teaches. My only question is, why does everyone take issue with this? My only take is that people don't like the idea that they don't have complete free will, and I ask why?
We have an issue with it because it means you believe God created people who have no choice and is glorified in sending them to hell. In Romans 9 Paul is so distraught over the lost that he would rather be accursed himself than see them lost. Does he care more about those who are unsaved than God?
God takes no pleasure in sending people to hell. People are responsible for their own sin, and God is sovereign over people. This is called an antinomy which is two mutually exclusive truths that seem to contradict each other if true at the same time however this is what the Bible teaches, similar to asking the question who wrote the Bible, God or man. The answer is both.
Even if you reject the doctrine of election and go with arminianism, you still run into the same problem. If God in his foreknowledge can see into the future and tell if the person he creates rejects him, but creates him anyway, is he unjust for doing so.
I think it's more to do with the fact that God has decided that there are people who are going to be tormented in Hell forever, that this is fixed, that he has decided that this is so, and that not even the death of Jesus on the cross can help and that somehow brings glory to him. This makes God sovereign, for sure, but it doesn't make him good.
@@TheMOV13 I can see your point, but the real question is, does scripture teach election? Regardless of how we feel about it. It doesn't matter if I disagree with the text, if it is true in what it says, is it really fair to let my emotions decide the interpretation or do I need to wrestle and come to terms with the truth of it.
@@mpalmer22 The emotions don't really matter, you could argue that God deciding that some people - quite large numbers probably - are created by him for the sole purpose of being tormented forever, and that this is glorifying him - is really objectively bad, by the standards that God himslef has placed in our hearts, whether I react emotionally to it or not. Yes, of course the bible teaches election - but I think we really must keep in mind that it's possible to nevertheless misunderstand how that works. The Old Testament people of God were elect too - and yet it was God's plan and desire that all the families and nations of the world should be blessed through them.
To say that God looked down the corridor of time and saw who would choose Him so he chose them is wrong because it makes that corridor larger than God and it implies that there was something that God didnt know and there for had to learn. The Calvinistic view is the only one that can possibly be right. Man cannot check mate God.
Also think, why did the early church need to even know about predestination? God could have kept it a mystery and saved believers without giving us that knowledge. He graced us with the knowledge because the early jews in the church thought that only they were chosen by God and that the gentiles were just extra. And through divine revelation God said no! Before Abraham, like before I laid the foundation of the world, if you believe, you were chosen by me. Jew and gentile can be the chosen people. And those who share the faith of Abraham are the spiritual children of Abraham. See, it ties into that middle wall of separation being removed.
If predestined, elected, why preach, why evangelize? Whose destined for Hell is gonna go there,who's destined for heaven is going there, the script is already written! So we're robots. Why are we going through the play if everyone's path already paved? Save everyone the agony. Some are predestined, made for a certain part, not everyone. Pharaoh, Judas, caiphas, the elected judges, 144000, not everyone. Why preach the gospel, giving people hope when they will forever be doomed?
The people Jesus picks are predestined to go to heaven, but they still have to find Christ, believe in him, get saved, etc., and everyone’s job as a Christian is to share the gospel because nobody knows who is predestined
Ganzi P if God is so good, why would he create people just to make their eternal life miserable and make them go to hell. i choose to believe in a God that lets people who need him on Earth find him and the good people who can’t find him on their lifetime on Earth will be with him after, if they are good people of course.
@@tarak6058 none is good or does righteousness. Without Jesus we're not saved. Al Mohler answers it best in 2 minutes who can be saved? UA-cam it, helps Alot in clarifying
@@andrewjustice1025 unnecessary , who will be saved will be, who are to be condemned will be, you cannot change it, when god ordains it is finished, feeble mankind cannot change any of that, that's the misunderstood doctrine, ignoring freewill + other verses which says He does not wish that any may perish...that whosoever believeth..... preach all you may they predestined to Hell would never be saved!!!! Total nonsense.
Ganzi P this mindset is toxic. yes it is true; we all sin and do wrong things. however, if we live with the idea that this lifetime truly doesn’t matter, problems will occur in society. understand that many are born in rural places where they don’t have access to the same information. they aren’t informed of who Jesus is or any of this. therefore, if this is all true, they go to hell just because they didn’t have access to the information that would lead them to salvation. if God predestined us, WHY WOULD HE CREATE PEOPLE JUST TO DESTINE THEM TO HELL. that does not make sense. God created us to have free will to make good and bad choices.
Totally disagree. In Romans eight and Ephesians 1 the word predestined is specifically talking about heaven and adoption not salvation. Please read in context so you are not let astray with an unbiblical man-made doctrine. It is just a word and it tells us what it is referring to in the actual text. It is not a doctrine.
Alanal L It is a doctrine!
@@terrycrosslin7866 If the meaning is only about heaven, then the person who believes that will only see heaven as the goal.
Those is heaven will be a reflection of God, not people who just wanted to get to heaven. And to be God's Reflection, the self needs to be let go completely.
People want heaven but not the discipline to get there.
And there is no Inner Prompt to deny self completely without the Birth from Above.
American-churchianty makes people believe that it's about getting things FROM God instead of forgetting self and allowing HIM to be all in all. Religions of the East with their teachings on the danger of losing the Eternal by clinging to matter are closer to Christ's Truth than the self-loving non-spiritual church goers in the West.
Yes it is talking about salvation. Adoption is done by God onto salvation. Let's not act foolish and explain away the text.
Yes, 5-point Calvinism Predestination is one of the big heresies during the last 700 years. If God predestines to Salvation, why not put all humans into Salvation. There is No "irresistible grace." Go out on visitation and talk to 40 unsaved people and find out.
Chapter and verse please?
Calvinism is the gospel.
I believe the confusion has to do with the application of the word predestination! I think also it has NOTHING to do with questioning God‘s sovereignty! If we know God is infinite and knew everything from the beginning to the end even before we were created then God knew the outcome would that not be common sense? He is the Alpha and the Omega the beginning in the end! It is just basic understanding and applications of words that God has blessed us with to have knowledge of!
Yeah, that is REALLY a biased and incorrect definition. In Each case where the word is used in scriptures, it is NEVER about "events" but about God's intentions for the persons who get saved. IN Ephesians 4, it does NOT say: 'chosen us TO BE SAVED'! RATHER, IT GIVES SPECIFIC THINGS GOD INTENDED FOR THOSE WHO ARE SAVED, and is predicated by the conjunctive word "THAT". Consisting of what God has "chose " as: "that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: ".
And again in this verse the "predestination" is NOT "to be saved", but that of "adoption": Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, [THAT]: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. This is restated again in verse 11!
And in verses 12-13 it states that these people "FIRST trusted in Christ! SALVATION came by their faith in Christ , THEN they are regenerated ! (Eph 1:12) That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
(Eph 1:13) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit (properly "spirit", not Spirit) of promise, [The regenerate quickened and undefiled (hagios or holy) spirit of Jesus placed in each of us ! (1 Cor. 15: 45, Col. 1:26-27, Ezekiel 36: 25-27, "my spirit", not 'my Spirit' vs 27) This is the "earnest" or down payment on our future inheritance!
NO ONE is predestinated "to salvation"! That is presumptive eisegesis they ADD into the verses in EVERY case! But there are many things that God predestined FOR the saved individual!
Wow i have to copy and keep this. Excellent explanation. Things we as Christians know but cant always put it into words to help these deceived souls.
If he predestined people then he didn't die for the whole world he died for certain people the Bible doesn't say
The bible says it... Jesus died only for the Sheep. Please read John chapter 10.. Also Jesus also said that all that the Father draws to Him... He will raise them up on the last day(John 6:44)....
@@josephdurraz8574 "My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an [a]Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2and He Himself is the [b]propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world." (1 John 2)
I may not be a Calvinist by any means but I do like this explanation. It’s presented very well and gets the facts that cannot be refuted by both sides out there.
I disagree
There's another test that can be applied to doctrine - was it universally taught and accepted by all Christians everywhere, for the first 1000 years of the church, or is is an innovation from relatively recent times? If the latter, then at least some degree of caution is advisable.
God "forknows" everything...
So... by bringing anything into existence it is "predestined" to the end God already knew before creation began.
The only way a soul can ever be in hell is because God created that soul and he created hell.
God having complete and perfect knowlage of all things past present and future... meaning God knew and knows exactly who will be in hell before they even exist, by bringing them into existence their fate is sealed, or if you rather say... their final destination is already set.
God knew ( before creation began) every murder, rape, lie, lust,ect ect, that would be committed by every human he planed to exist.
Do with this as you like... it is however biblical truth, and that doesn't depend on the version of bible you read either... they all say God has perfect knowlage of all things past, present, and future.
Example... God knew who would read this and what they would think before the creation began, by creating me ( God knowing all that ever I would do or think) God sealed me to do and think what he already knew i would do and think the moment he brought me into existence.
Now hear this.... If God truly wants every soul to be saved they will be! He knew everyone's end before the beginning.
God knew all you would ever do before he made you, if he didn't want you to do the things he knew you would do before he made you... he would not have made you.
Trust in Christ you've always been in God's hands.
This describes my view of god to a T
I was once a hard atheist, most of my life. There was a moment in time that really helped to begin my journey to finding god.
A man said "You are not smarter than God."
God knows all there there ever has been, all there is, and all there ever will be. He shapes it all, down to the smallest detail. He is infinite in his wisdom.
Danny,
You left one piece out of your judgment, (God's will). you assumed that everything is controlled by the foreknowledge of God. Imagine this, if God foreknows everything in the future, then how far does he know? It can't go forever! Otherwise he is still doing it and can't snap out of it. That's why his will is in control and time and future are under his control and from him, he owns it.
If you own that then no foreknowledge is required and you let the live will of God do what it pleases.
So who decides that these people will end up in hell? Do they get any say in that. It seems you are conflating the ideas of predestination and foreknowledge.
@@jordanforbes2557 God does
Predestination is simply Gods plan of salvation for whosoever will believe, which is to conform them to the image of His son. It has nothing to do with arbitrarily “pre-selecting” those who will believe, since scripture clearly teaches that: The Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
It has everything to do with pre-selecting, since no one seeks God (Romans 3:10-11). Did you forget that verse? Also who are you, to talk back to God (Romans 9:20)? The one molded does not say to the molder 'why did you make me like this?' Drop your man-centered theology. God, willing to show his wrath and make his power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order for him to show mercy on the other vessels who he created for mercy (Romans 9:22-23).
@@alihoussney7870 - That’s why the Holy Spirit draws all men to himself (Jn 12:32). Those who respond to the gospel, repent and believe become the elect…foreknown by God from the foundation of the world. Not pre-determined, pre-KNOWN. Elect according to the FOREKNOWLEDGE of God. Just because I reject your personal interpretation of scripture does not mean I’m “talking back to God”. Nice try though….
@@Bobepc Nope, the elect were chosen BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, read Ephesians 1
@@alihoussney7870 - True, but it was based on Gods foreknowledge (foresight) of those who would come to Christ and follow Him. Eph 1 is talking about his plan for “whosoever would call upon the name of the Lord and be saved”, that being: “That we should be holy and without blame before him in love, and predestined for adoption as His children” (Eph 1:4-5).
God is omniscient, so it should not surprise anyone that he already knows the end from the beginning….from before the foundation of the world. He knows those who will come to Him and faithfully follow to the end, they ARE the elect, predestined to be conformed to the image of His son. The whole “arbitrary selection” viewpoint just doesn’t make any sense, and I don’t think it’s scriptural….at all.
@@Bobepc like Romans 9:11 says, God decided before they were born and had done anything.
why preach if it won't make a difference. People can't be saved by faith or actions. So why preach to them? You're wasting their time and your time. God has decided for them if they are saved. We have no free will. If presdestination is true, then we are either saved or not, and nothing can change that. Forget Matt 25:21-46.
Why post if it doesn't make difference?
My eternal brother, I have a question: under the predestination regime, and according to the real meaning of predestination, there exist sin or violation?
God is the creator he does as He pleases ! The is our Savior ! Maan can't give hiself eternal life it's a gift from God!
Predestination is exclusive of grace and demonstrably THE EVIL that causes all human suffering today.
John Calvin specifically and forcefully taught there was no Free will and that salvation was predetermined. So are you agreeing or disagreeing with Calvin? From this video its hard to tell.
"Knowing" how He speaks about intimacy. When they become one flesh?
I like this pastor. I dont think this snippet does his intent in explaining any justice. I should do more research.
1Cor7:24 "Brethren, let every man, wherein he is called, therein abide with God".KJV. In other words, stay in whatever situation you are in when you are saved (become one of the "called" or chosen). Obviously, this "calling" can only occur while you are alive, living, when you believe, NOT predestined before the foundation of the world. Also in 1Cor7:20
What if God didn’t choose me, I love him and I want to love him and desire and follow him yes I do mess up but what if I’m the end I’m not chosen? It scares me
God chose the human race John 3:16 god chose everyone salvation is only for humans and then we serve him for future rewards. basic chrisitanity.
I think that’s the wrong idea. There is nothing stopping you from accepting Jesus’s invitation, repenting, and turning away from sin, and becoming a Christian. Some people view predestination as a brick wall where- you want to be a Christian but God “doesn’t let you”. I think it’s a little more complex than that. You can make whatever decision you want, but God knows what you’re going to do by that decision. My reasoning does kind of seem paradoxical, but I think we can’t fully understand it because God is outside of our 3-dimensional linear thinking. Predestination shouldn’t necessarily be scary. Just my thoughts 🤷🏽♂️
@salvador trejo I mean he has to, doesn’t he? If he didn’t, would he really be God?
@salvador trejo it’s a very complicated topic, so I personally try not to get too hung up on details which I obviously can’t fully understand. You could call it a cop-out, but I don’t think “understanding the true reality of predestination or free will” is essential to my growing of faith as a believer.
@salvador trejo i believe that predestination is an unbiblical teaching, it is nowhere to be found in the Bible, the Bible says confess and believe wholeheartedly that Jesus is Lord and u will be saved, repent and follow Jesus and spread the Gospel
I’m ok with it but it means he predestined people to hell and painful inflictions ….. why ?
I disagree that it only starts in the book of Romans/with Paul. Certain aspects have been there in different manners even from the OT in different ways and I had been wondering about it since I’ve been reading The Bible in order from the beginning. Things that immediately come to mind, if you look at Exodus, you can see God is hardening Pharaoh’s heart, in a way God has predestined that he will be used as an example. Another big one was in Isaiah, it has a lot of things like this based on prophesy. One however is Isaiah 6 where whether in vision or however, Isaiah hears God say to keep the people blind to being able to see what they’re doing, or understand with their heart so God can show them after how they need him. Also, in the New Testament before we see all sorts of comments such as “you believe because the spirit came to you and allowed you to”. One I just read which is why got me searching about this was John 6:44 ESV No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day... 65: And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
God chose Abraham, Isaac and Jacob/Israel. (not to be confused with the Jews) “You only have I chosen of all the families of the earth; therefore I will punish you for all your sins.”
1 Chrinicles 17:9 "And I will provide a place for My people Israel and will plant them so that they may dwell in a place of their own and be disturbed no more. No longer will the sons of wickedness oppress them as they did at the beginning"
Hebrews 8:10 "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord, putting My Laws into their mind, and I will inscribe them upon their hearts; and I will be to them God, and they will be to Me for a people."
Israel was given a news name! Isaiah 62:2 "Nations will see your righteousness, and all kings your glory. You will be called by a new name that the mouth of the LORD will bestow." And we were first called Christian at Antioch.
Why is that so hard to understand, we are Israel predestined by God and out of Israel Jesus would call out his chosen as the Church. Israel is the Bride of Christ, not the church but the people of Israel.
has no ability in itself to desire or seek God because we are born spiritually dead and they deserve nothing but destruction) God chose to save some by giving them His spirit, a regeneration of their dead lost spirit, and not that it enables faith in God, but it actually produces faith in God. Which way gives God all the glory he and only he deserves? Which way will make you more grateful? That he offered you a choice, or that when you had no ability to chose Him he changed you by giving you His Spirit which actually produced the faith that you have? Salvation from start to finish is 100% The work of God which gives God all the glory. This life is not a test for us, we, his creation, are just part of the demonstration of His perfection and Glory. Once you see it you won’t be able to un see it and it will bring to 0:58 you a greater heart of thankfulness to God for what he has given you. Read Romans Chapter 9. Paul answers all the push back and questions that we self centered humans might have. Remember, our ways and our thinking are not Gods ways.
amen
If we can agree that all children who pass away before the age of accountability go to heaven. Then clearly we as adults were all children and were at one time “predestined” to go to heaven. Through our Sin and Unrepentance we have removed ourselves from the Father. Look at 2 Peter 3:9 “ The Lord isn’t really being slow about his promise, as some people think. No, He, is being patient for your sake. HE DOES NOT WANT ANYONE TO BE DESTROYED, BUT WANTS EVERYONE TO REPENT.” None of us are better or have more favor from the Father, than anyone else. Just repent, believe Jesus died for your Sin and is your Savior, then you can join Us as His Children. ANYONE AND EVERYONE CAN DO THIS.
To god we are just robots made every atom to ever excite and knew where everything single one would be three time and it be impossible to change so you may think your in control but you real are not and I think that scares people
proorízō (which is the term that is translated predestined) is only used 6x times in the NT, none of the uses convey the theological implication of Calvinism.
Chandler is presenting a soft determinism, typical of new calvinism that stresses compatibalism.
Felix Guerrero That's your opinion.
@@terrycrosslin7866
It's a hard predetermined fact, mate.
@@felixguerrero6062 I need your opinion if I tried to commit suicide would God try and stop me or would God watch me do it then burn me for all eternity?
@@terrycrosslin7866
Non sequitur.
As we know that God knows everything and nothing is hid from Him we realise that He knew before he created the angels that one third of them would ultimately go into rebellion and rebel against Him.
Could this be the resulting scenario.
This presented God with an unprecedented opportunity because He could use these fallen ones to beneficially tempt a new species called mankind.
But those who overcome the temptations qualify to become sons and daughters of God.
However without these temptations this would not be possible.
It gets a bit more complicated than this because in order for the deal to work, God Himself has to become a human being that’s sacrificed.
The powers of the tempting ones are so unavoidably strong that God, over and above being a sacrifice, has to help out those ones whom He knows will go in His direction, by actually helping them to go in His direction.
This is called predestination.
In other words He orchestrates the lives of those whom He knows will follow and obey Him, in such a way that they can do exactly that.
What a sick and evil god you serve. Thank God its not the God of the bible.
Mark Ross You Sir are ignorant as to the realities of existence clearly documented in the Bible, but because you don’t like that story you’d rather read books about little tin soldiers and Mary Poppins.
And then you have the height of ignorance to spew forth that crazy nonsense by describing the God described in the Bible as being sick and evil.
What’s wrong with you?
Don’t you have any wisdom at all?
@@paulwilfridhunt You portray and promote and unjust and unloving god. Start reading your bible only. Stop reading your calvinist indoctrination books.
Mark Ross God exists.
He created the angels.
He knows everything.
He knew before creating the angels that one third of them would rise up in rebellion against Him.
He knew He could turn this into an unprecedented opportunity.
He could use them to tempt a new species to become copies of Himself if they didn’t succumb to the temptation.
He said let us make man in our image.
The temptation was to rebel against God.
But in order to make the deal work God Himself has to become a man and be sacrificed.
The new species is called mankind.
Their problem is going to be handling their incredulous inferiority to God.
He provides a way to do this.
They need to join forces and synergise with Him.
They do this by worshipping Him and loving Him.
But He realises that the majority of this new species will turn against Him.
He will only get few to follow Him.
He weighs it all up.
He decides to do it for the sake of the few.
They get everlasting life and are to be copies of Himself.
But He has to destroy those who oppose His great plan for mankind.
But not only must He destroy them He has to also destroy their rebellion.
Eventually in hell they come to their senses and realise they blew it and that they do need to be destroyed.
There’s no plan B.
That’s it in a nut shell.
Also God foresaw that the tempting ones would also be the instigators of pain, heartache and suffering.
They are behind wars and mayhem and pestilence.
The innocent would suffer.
However God in His justice makes recompense to those who unjustly suffer by making heavenly compensations.
Although we don’t know exactly how this plays out we do know that we can count on the justice of God.
There is sufficient evidence in the bible that God doesn’t have people in hell in perpetuity.
What would you do if you were God with those who rejected your offer of Godhood and everlasting life and there was no plan B?
He has to destroy their souls and their unjustified antipathy for Him.
He has to rid the universe of all that crap thinking.
Let’s say you are one that elects to not believe in God.
In hell you’ll eventually allow yourself to realise that you didn’t believe in His existence because you didn’t want to.
And you didn’t want to believe because you didn’t like your incredulous inferiority to God.
But here during your earthly sojourn you didn’t want to realise this.
You were tempted to rebel against God and as of this present moment you have succumbed to it.
It’s better to realise all this right now than realise it in hell when it’s too late to change sides.
Change sides now before it’s too late.
Mark Ross It seems that we have both misunderstood and therefore misjudged each other.
My apologies.
I see that you are not what I thought you were.
I am not a Calvinist.
My view of predestination greatly differs from their view.
Perhaps we are both on the same page, after all.
If you’d care to take a look at my primitive attempt to describe this it’s on my video below in the link.
Blessings to you.
ua-cam.com/video/mJvaEQLvALs/v-deo.html
Man I look like a yo-yo with the cowboy hat and whiskers, don’t I. That’s old age for you.
Not clear.
It means 16th century Augustinian predestinationism
Not
God predestined the plan. Not the man. James chapter 3 tells us every human is made in the likeness of God to be conformed to the image of His son. GOD predestined the PLAN. From the beginning of time God knew what was going to happen when He created man. Jesus and the Holy Spirit were with the Father from before time began. God gave us what we needed to be conformed to the image of His son. Jesus Christ. God sent out Jesus Christ to pay the atonement of our sins. Paul tells us also in Ephesians that he prepared works for us to do in advance THAT WE should WALK IN them. By NOT choosing to respond to what God has done for us to save us, we will spend eternity separated from Him. And, that only makes sense. If we never choose to love God back after He has done EVERYTHING for us, it only makes sense that God has nothing but His wrath stored up for you. God predestined the PLAN. NOT THE MAN!!!!!!
(Singing) "I have decided, to follow Jesus, I have decided to follow Jesus etc..." Er, no, wait, can't be true.......
Universal predestination is not biblical. It teaches that no matter what you do or who you preach to or what they believe, there is no changing your fate or the fate of others. So much for any scripture that begins with "If ye". And what is the purpose of the great commission if not to lead people out of sin if God is going to lead them out of sin or keep them in sin anyway. This is a false doctrine.
Some where predestinated according to scripture and they were predestinated before the foundation of the world. But not all for the Word of God and the purpose of Christ would be nullified.
To understand how some where predestinated before the foundation of the world, one must understand what the foundation of the world is and what was happening then.
What was before the foundation of the world? The fall of Lucifer when his tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth. The stars of heaven are children of God. This means that he drew them away from God and introduced them to sin (wordly sin) just as he introduced sin into the garden.
There was a judgment that occurred at that time which sentenced Lucifer and his angels to eternal condemnation. If this judgment condemned some, then it would make sense that the same judgment justified others that stood against it. Those others were the ones who were predestinated. They were justified then and they have one mission in the flesh and that is to preach God and Christ. They have no choice.
All others have the choice to come to Christ or not. It is their belief (an act) that earns them salvation, not predestination.
The teaching of universal predestination is a false doctrine that has driven MANY away from Christ thinking that there is no hope for them or that nothing they can do will change their eternal status. It nullifies Christ, repentance, and keeping the ways of God.
Are they Hebrews? *so am I*. Are they Israelites? *so am I*. Are they the seed of Abraham? *so am I.*
2 Corinthians 11:22 KJVA
"my kinsmen according to the flesh: who are Israelites; *to whom pertaineth* the adoption, and the glory, and *the covenants* (old and new), and the giving of the law, and the service of God , *and the promises* ; whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came , who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Romans 9:3-5 KJVA
"I say then, Hath God cast away his people _Israel_? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away his people _Israel_ which he foreknew.
Romans 11:1-2 KJVA
"For whom he did foreknow (ie. Israel), he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. *Moreover, whom he did predestinate, them he also called*: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Romans 8:29-30 KJVA
"according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: *having predestinated us* (Israel) unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, in whom *WE* (Israel) have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Ephesians 1:4-5, 7 KJVA
"But we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, *brethren beloved* (Jer 12:7) of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and *hold the traditions* which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
2 Thessalonians 2:13-15 KJVA
Shem Romach, Please tell me what is your views of Predestination in the bible? are you a Calvinist? thanks
Thus says The Lord: By My prophets have I made My plans known. Yet that which I am about to do is done already, and shall be. And that which I have spoken from the beginning, even to this day, is true. For the will of God can not be broken, even as The Scriptures. And if My every word is Scripture, then how shall even one word fail?
Yet My people fall away, and My little flock grows smaller still. For they seek to loosen these bonds in an attempt to flee this bundle. For the Way of The Lord is not known among them, and My words have ceased from being a blessing. And so they flee back into the world in an attempt to escape, as in all times past, for they have no root.
Yet I tell you the truth, none shall escape their bundle. For all bundles lie in the field already, each one tied securely and set in its place. Therefore as one attempts to flee this bundle, the truth of the matter is made plain. For they have not departed at all, but remain in the bundle in which I had placed them at the first. I AM THE LORD.Beloved ones, I search the hearts and minds, even the innermost thoughts I know; even from the foundation of the world did I know each one of you, setting you in your place from the beginning. Yet some will say, “What of free will and our right to choose?” To these I say: You have chosen, and the will of your heart has spoken, and thus were you bundled and prepared. For I know My own.
Thus the Bride is chosen;
My blood runs through her veins,
My image is shown upon her face...
Behold, the light of My coming is reflected
In her eyes, for I have captured her gaze,
And she will by no means look away
Or seek after another...
Therefore some are plucked from
The world already, and shall also be taken;
They shall surely be gone from this place!...
Says The Lord.
Source: trumpetcallofgodonline.com/index.php5?title=The_Harvest_Is_Separated%2C_All_Bundles_Set_in_Their_Places
Lol God foreknew there was something special about me
I like your message BUT in the last part... I think I cannot agree with you when you said: God has ordained to accomplish His purpose through the prayers of His people.. =>>> In the first place it is no longer ordained if God needs the prayers of His people... and 2nd, I don't think there is a Scripture for that idea... Thanks any way for the good message brother....
👉🏻👈🏻
Pastor, I respectfully disagree with your teaching on Calvinism and since you are a Calvinist yet your preaching is not according to Calvin's doctrine on
predestination. I don't deny "predestinate" is mentioned in the bible but it was wrongly applied and twisted.
But in case you still doubt his position, allow me to share with you this excerpt from Calvin's Section 5 in Chapter 21: read below for yourself;
"All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death."
Certainly all the viewers of this video will agree your teaching as a calvinist is not of what Calvin taught, as the viewers have the reference above on Calvin's Section 5 in Chapter 21.
Anyone can comment, please. Thanks
Who cares what Calvin taught he is not Jesus or God
@@cmhardin37 , I partly disagreed with you as Christians, we are to abide in the Word. Certainly we should care and contend with the heresy of Calvin as the following verse affirmed;
(Jud 1:3) Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Sorry to disagree with you but you are quoting from Calvin's theology not from the Bible. Just remember that the Bible was given to us by God and not by John Calvin.
Calvin was right about this, some will be in hell and some will be in heaven. Read Romans 9.
@@benmeitzen4184 Romans 9 by reading it in its context, it is not talking about individual's salvation or soteriology. The prologue of Romans 9:1-5 clearly Paul was talking about the Israelites, his brethren in the flesh which ultimately be the bloodline that would bring about the Jewish Messiah in verse 5. The rest of the verses in romans 9 referred to God's Sovereignty in choosing the bloodline of Abraham to bring about Jesus, the Messiah. Read the bloodline of Jesus in Matthew 1:1-17 and it was that sovereign choice of God that preordained his Son, Jesus would come from. It is an error to affirm that romans 9 is talking about man's salvation as it is evidenced by scripture.
Further, Calvin taught the doctrine of double-predestination which is nowhere mentioned in the bible. Thus Calvin was wrong about this.
Because GOD works in His Immortality and Omniscience.
GOD already knew who believed when the gospel was preached. GOD already knew before the world existed.
Those who have been known by GOD, they are called to hear the message of the gospel, and those who believe in the message of the gospel, those who are sealed with the HOLY SPIRIT, and given the Faith of Salvation in JESUS CHRIST.
Believe in the gospel message then sealed with the HOLY SPIRIT and have the Faith of Salvation in JESUS CHRIST.
Believe in the gospel message, then repentance occurs. Repentance is what it means to be born of water. Water baptism is a sign of repentance.
Sealed with the HOLY SPIRIT is being born from the SPIRIT. The human heart is born again, because the HOLY SPIRIT is in the human conscience saved by GOD.
God intends for everyone to be saved. He doesn't want anyone to perish. Therefore I do not believe in a Calvinism
Thank you I’m sending this to my boyfriend -Hallie
Send him beyond the fundementals videos.
Sometimes it is better to keep quiet and just shrug rather than ramble on UA-cam for
3 1/2 minutes about nonsense that you really don't quite understand.
Preach the gospel. You know, the news that is too good to be true.
Leave theology to those who don't know God yet think they understand Him and His intentions.
You're conflating the false doctrine of predestination with foreordination. We were all foreordained to do certain things but not everyone measures up. "Many are called but few are chosen" chosen means that they have chosen to follow God and Christ and in doing so have qualified themselves, it's nothing to do with predestination. That is called foreordination.
Aaah FALSE GOSPEL ALERT. That explains a lot. Giving your life to Jesus IS NOT HOW a person gets saved like youre some prize. Its because He gave His life for us. Why even witness if thats the case? Sumo wrestling those scriptures like a pro... SMH THATS WICKED DISGUSTING EVIL
God knows all, so how could He not fore-know who would come to Him?
wow, you explained predestination in 4 mins. dammit!
We are predestined to 3 things: 1. Good works (Eph. 2:10), 2. The image of the Son (Ro. 8:29), and 3. To the adoption (Eph. 1:5). The only people who are predestined to these things are chosen IN Christ by faith (Eph. 1:4a, Ro. 5:1-2). All people who are not in Christ are predestined for hell (John 3:18).
Thumper, You are right brother... These people are the elect of God predestined to be saved since the foundation of the world...
Joseph Durraz that’s not what I said. No one is predestined for salvation until after they have faith in Christ and are born again Eph. 1:13, Titus 3:5-6. Calvinists confuse God’s passive foreknowledge with his active predestination.
@@thumper5832, Yes we predestined for salvation before the foundation of the world =>> >> Ephesians 1:4 (KJV) According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: =>>> >>> >>> NOTE: We are chosen before the foundation of the world... But it take effect after we are born and heard the gospel, and believed, and sealed with the Holy Spirit... It simply means, a long time before we are born, we are already chosen by God... As simple as that... I am not a Calvinist but I agree with the Calvinist regarding this... =>>>>>> The anti Calvinist think that all the doctrines of Calvin is wrong... BUT the fact is that in the TULIP, aside from predestination before the foundation of the world, 'L' and the 'P' are True and biblical... Jesus Christ died only for the Elect(Sheep) and None of the Sheep can lost his salvation...
Joseph Durraz are we chosen before we’re in him?
@@thumper5832, We are chosen in Him before we are in Jesus.... We were chosen in Him since the foundation of the world... That is before Jesus was even born to redeem as from the hand of satan.... Before we are born we are already the seed of God... And we belong to God... After the Fall of Adam and Eve, All the descendants of Adam and Eve inherited the Sinful nature and we lost our fellowship with our Father God.... So in due time God sent Jesus Christ to Redeem us from satan... To Redeem means to take back by paying... Please read MATTHEW 13:24-43 (KJV) for more enlightenment.....
Yeah the predestined is not understood by the wook Calvinist it’s not what they want it to mean
a complete sidestep from standard calvinism into arminian territory. he has to know piper and macarthur etc. do teach that results (namely wrath or salvation) are predetermined, nullifying human will.
What if your gawd changed its mind ??!
Calvinism is nonsense
This is so stupid. 😀