Hi Jon I’m Les and you may recall I wrote you a comment on one of your other videos a few weeks back, I said I think we where on the same track in regards to an Octopus Heatpump installation. Mine was done around 3weeks ago now, so this evening I have just watched your latest video with concern about your shower and a shower pump, so I had the same set up as you with a vented cylinder and very poor hot water pressure all over my house as I live in a 3 bed bungalow, my cylinder was in the loft area and when the Octopus team arrived I took the into my loft to explain my old set up and what pipes went where, and when I told them these pipes feed the shower pump the pump being fitted behind my shower on the ground floor below in my bathroom,they said right away they would need to get rid of the shower pump as it was not needed any more,then during the course of the installation they changed quite lot of the old pipe work for the hot water supply and shower pump was removed, it was brilliant shower with the pump before the work started but my water pressure was terrible, I ran my hot water tap in my kitchen this is the tap which is furthest away from the old hot water cylinder, so tap on full to fill a pint beer glass took 13 seconds yes 13 that’s how poor the pressure was at that tap, so after the install now a new and bigger cylinder of course and now a pressurised system, the Same tap and glass experiment the glass takes 3 seconds to fill it is unbelievable I had a 2 bar shower pump on the shower and it was very good now no pump at all and it’s far better my shower is not the same brand as yours but looks very similar idea, so I would hang fire with fitting the new equipment until your heat pump installation is done and see what its like with your new set up. I hope this as not caused you any upset but I’m just trying to be helpful Jon. I don’t know how to send a private message on UA-cam, but if you do and you want to send me your number and I will video call you on FaceTime or WhatsApp video and show you around my system if you like. Just one thing I’m out of the country from the 3rd Sunday for 2weeks so it will need to be today or tomorrow for a video call. Les
thanks for the update, glad it’s working well, how’s the heating been, is the house nice and warm? wrt shower my brand won’t start if the pump detects pressure so that’s why i had to change it out
Ok Jon yeh house as never been so warm but in a different way neither has it been very cold as yet the temperatures here in the north west are quite high for this time of year the biggest difference is the temperature is very even all over my bungalow and the radiators are cool most of the time which is far better so running all day at around 21 degrees and night time set for 19 the other big difference is I have set the night time temp for 21:00 and the house is still warm the gas could be on until midnight and temps would drop within an hour of going off Nice and even for hours after it’s gone to the night time setting in fact at 19 I have yet to see that the HP as ever kicked in as the temp does not drop below 19 or hasn’t done the place stays warm the hot water is brilliant in every respect good pressure and never seems to run out the controls are a bit of a challenge at first but after a week or so you get to know what your doing so now I rarely touch them I appear to be using around 5-7 KWs a day but its on 24/7 so happy with that anyhow I would have liked to have shown you the set up but I’m not giving my phone number out in a public web page that why I ask if you knew how to send a PM on you tube as I don’t but best of luck with your installation. Les
Haha I trained as a gas engineer and soldering gas joints played on my mind like that, I was fine with water but it took some time to become confident with gas.
Trained as electrical engineer at college but sort of slipped into,programming, think I was away the day they gave out practical skills like plumbing 😜
Oh John, you can have them converted from pumped to a pressurised one, I did, it was about £100, a company called ‘our bathrooms’ I recall, found on eBay. Beauty is it’s the same box so no change of pipe work. I have 3 varieties of the aqua Lisa showers now, they’re easy to fit. My shower valves now live under the floors and bath rather than in the loft.
Hi Jon, looking at the diagram at 6:17 it' looks like the pumped version is the same as the unpumped version, only with a pump added on the side. When your plumber comes to change them over, maybe worth seeing if you can just unbolt the pump off the side and you've effectively got an unpumped version. Worth a try, may save you £800.
Aqualisa first came on the market when I was a youngish plumber 🧑🔧 almost 50 years ago. We have fitted over the year many of their units and I have to say from the beginning they were a brilliant company.
bathroom remodel is and every single time we’ve chosen them as the vendor for our showers and never regretted it a single day. we had some guests stay with us a few months ago and they’re even considering remodelling their bathroom just a fit an Aqualisa shower 😂
In 2022 I installed an unvented hot water cylinder designed for use with a heat pump but I operate it vented. We don't have great water pressure so I decided to retain the existing shower pump and a cold water storage tank. Two years later and it still works fine. If we had a reliable high pressure water supply I might have chosen differently.
@@barryfoster453 Hi Barry, Yes my unvented cylinder was installed by a qualified heating engineer and the original 22mm vent pipe running to the loft mounted cold water storage tank is still in place. The new cylinder has a pressure relief valve fitted but it is capped off because it is never going to operate. I could convert to unvented if our water company ever decides to improve the water supply.
I heat water to 43C in my Mixergy HWC, old electric shower no longer used, shower head connects to bath tap outlet for nice 43C shower at mains water pressure which for me is good. For me the pressure from old header tank meant hot water flow was poor (Bungalow). If insufficient pressure on mains I believe a pump could be added to boost that.
Although I would always prefer an unvented cylinder instead of a vented cylinder I'm pretty sure you could get a vented cylinder that is compatible with a heat pump.
@@JonathanTracey unvented cylinders provide hot water at 2 to 3 bar of pressure which means you don't need to use pumps to have a decent shower, a header tank in the loft isn't necessary, they maintain a good pressure even when multiple taps/showers are in use and I think they also heat up quicker.
@@JonathanTracey forgot to mention that if your mains water pressure isn't very good then there isn't much of an advantage installing an unvented cylinder, hopefully your mains pressure is ok.
This new unit you've purchased isn't a pump, it's just a remote valve unit. An unvented cylinder doesn't need a pump to feed the shower. Crazy that they charge hundreds of pounds for a box with some solenoid valves in it!
they even told me they do t make spares available to other companies until the product goes out of manufacturer - which means they can charge what they want
I absolutely do not understand why on earth you need a pump when you essentially get main's pressure on the hot water side. Do you not have a high enough mains pressure to support a shower?
The existing system needs a pump and a mixer due to to much difference between the hot and cold water pressures, the pump regulates the flow of cold water, it also lifts the hot water up a floor to the showers. The new system will be pressurised enough to not need it
Why not use a vented cylinder designed for heat pumps, and before anyone says you can’t you can! There are companies that do make cylinder for heat pumps they just have much larger coils. 40 years ago I used to buy special high recovery cylinders for clients who needed them.
i’m sure there are, but to buy the solution from my vendor they will only supply cylinders that are tested by them as guaranteed to work. so my choices are very limited
@@JonathanTraceyMy house is 8 years old, so the hot water tank and system is as cutting edge as it gets, but octopus still wants to change it all if I get the heat pump installed.
if they are not cheap and quite good sell them used and get some money back. Those are long lasting products and demand for used is always there - it is not cheap chinese crap. Could be a lot worse.
Hi you are going to hate the shower as the pump you have to fit is usless and very expensive we had a heat pump fitted 2 years ago and had the same shower and had to get a new pump to Handel mains pressure. Biggest regret is the loss of a very good shower
i’m afraid it does, it’s not just the pump the entire control unit needs to change to support a pressurised system. the brand i have won’t start if there is pressure on the pump.
Maybe in am not explaining, the current one is pumped, the new one replies on the pressure in the cylinder, so althought I call the boxes pumps the old one actually pumps y]the new one uses pressure in cylinder
@@JonathanTracey 3 bar mains pressure is enough for a domestic house, The pressure comes from the mains to the tank then showers etc, no need for pumps
@ so what’s in the box? We just removed the pump completely when we got rid of the cold water tank in the loft and plumbed the hot and cold feeds straight into the acqualisa shower.
Hi Jon I’m Les and you may recall I wrote you a comment on one of your other videos a few weeks back, I said I think we where on the same track in regards to an Octopus Heatpump installation.
Mine was done around 3weeks ago now, so this evening I have just watched your latest video with concern about your shower and a shower pump, so I had the same set up as you with a vented cylinder and very poor hot water pressure all over my house as I live in a 3 bed bungalow, my cylinder was in the loft area and when the Octopus team arrived I took the into my loft to explain my old set up and what pipes went where, and when I told them these pipes feed the shower pump the pump being fitted behind my shower on the ground floor below in my bathroom,they said right away they would need to get rid of the shower pump as it was not needed any more,then during the course of the installation they changed quite lot of the old pipe work for the hot water supply and shower pump was removed, it was brilliant shower with the pump before the work started but my water pressure was terrible, I ran my hot water tap in my kitchen this is the tap which is furthest away from the old hot water cylinder, so tap on full to fill a pint beer glass took 13 seconds yes 13 that’s how poor the pressure was at that tap, so after the install now a new and bigger cylinder of course and now a pressurised system, the Same tap and glass experiment the glass takes 3 seconds to fill it is unbelievable I had a 2 bar shower pump on the shower and it was very good now no pump at all and it’s far better my shower is not the same brand as yours but looks very similar idea, so I would hang fire with fitting the new equipment until your heat pump installation is done and see what its like with your new set up.
I hope this as not caused you any upset but I’m just trying to be helpful Jon.
I don’t know how to send a private message on UA-cam, but if you do and you want to send me your number and I will video call you on FaceTime or WhatsApp video and show you around my system if you like. Just one thing I’m out of the country from the 3rd Sunday for 2weeks so it will need to be today or tomorrow for a video call.
Les
thanks for the update, glad it’s working well, how’s the heating been, is the house nice and warm? wrt shower my brand won’t start if the pump detects pressure so that’s why i had to change it out
thanks for the offer i’m also travelling for business so maybe catch-up when we’re both back
Ok Jon yeh house as never been so warm but in a different way neither has it been very cold as yet the temperatures here in the north west are quite high for this time of year the biggest difference is the temperature is very even all over my bungalow and the radiators are cool most of the time which is far better so running all day at around 21 degrees and night time set for 19 the other big difference is I have set the night time temp for 21:00 and the house is still warm the gas could be on until midnight and temps would drop within an hour of going off
Nice and even for hours after it’s gone to the night time setting in fact at 19 I have yet to see that the HP as ever kicked in as the temp does not drop below 19 or hasn’t done the place stays warm the hot water is brilliant in every respect good pressure and never seems to run out the controls are a bit of a challenge at first but after a week or so you get to know what your doing so now I rarely touch them I appear to be using around 5-7 KWs a day but its on 24/7 so happy with that anyhow I would have liked to have shown you the set up but I’m not giving my phone number out in a public web page that why I ask if you knew how to send a PM on you tube as I don’t but best of luck with your installation.
Les
Sounds good, will let you know how I get on
Haha I trained as a gas engineer and soldering gas joints played on my mind like that, I was fine with water but it took some time to become confident with gas.
Trained as electrical engineer at college but sort of slipped into,programming, think I was away the day they gave out practical skills like plumbing 😜
Oh John, you can have them converted from pumped to a pressurised one, I did, it was about £100, a company called ‘our bathrooms’ I recall, found on eBay. Beauty is it’s the same box so no change of pipe work. I have 3 varieties of the aqua Lisa showers now, they’re easy to fit. My shower valves now live under the floors and bath rather than in the loft.
i did look at it but getting them converted just seemed a risk. did they change the existing modules or replace them entirely
Hi Jon, looking at the diagram at 6:17 it' looks like the pumped version is the same as the unpumped version, only with a pump added on the side. When your plumber comes to change them over, maybe worth seeing if you can just unbolt the pump off the side and you've effectively got an unpumped version. Worth a try, may save you £800.
that’s what i hopped to do as the older style ones allowed this, the ones i have are one piece so no way to disconnect it.
Aqualisa first came on the market when I was a youngish plumber 🧑🔧 almost 50 years ago. We have fitted over the year many of their units and I have to say from the beginning they were a brilliant company.
bathroom remodel is and every single time we’ve chosen them as the vendor for our showers and never regretted it a single day. we had some guests stay with us a few months ago and they’re even considering remodelling their bathroom just a fit an Aqualisa shower 😂
In 2022 I installed an unvented hot water cylinder designed for use with a heat pump but I operate it vented. We don't have great water pressure so I decided to retain the existing shower pump and a cold water storage tank. Two years later and it still works fine. If we had a reliable high pressure water supply I might have chosen differently.
interesting i’d didn’t know that was an option, i’m kinda following their recommendations, so hopefully it will work out ok
The work hasn’t been done yet but yes it’s being done by fully qualified installers
@@barryfoster453 Hi Barry, Yes my unvented cylinder was installed by a qualified heating engineer and the original 22mm vent pipe running to the loft mounted cold water storage tank is still in place. The new cylinder has a pressure relief valve fitted but it is capped off because it is never going to operate. I could convert to unvented if our water company ever decides to improve the water supply.
I heat water to 43C in my Mixergy HWC, old electric shower no longer used, shower head connects to bath tap outlet for nice 43C shower at mains water pressure which for me is good.
For me the pressure from old header tank meant hot water flow was poor (Bungalow).
If insufficient pressure on mains I believe a pump could be added to boost that.
was hoping to get a mixer by tank but it just won’t fit in my cupboard and the wife didn’t like the idea of taking space from the bedroom.
Although I would always prefer an unvented cylinder instead of a vented cylinder I'm pretty sure you could get a vented cylinder that is compatible with a heat pump.
The options are suprisingly limited and due to the space constraints in that cupboard our only option was an unvented one
out of interest (only ever having a vented on) why would you prefer a unvented one?
@@JonathanTracey unvented cylinders provide hot water at 2 to 3 bar of pressure which means you don't need to use pumps to have a decent shower, a header tank in the loft isn't necessary, they maintain a good pressure even when multiple taps/showers are in use and I think they also heat up quicker.
oh so we may lose our header tank as well, that would be good
@@JonathanTracey forgot to mention that if your mains water pressure isn't very good then there isn't much of an advantage installing an unvented cylinder, hopefully your mains pressure is ok.
This new unit you've purchased isn't a pump, it's just a remote valve unit. An unvented cylinder doesn't need a pump to feed the shower. Crazy that they charge hundreds of pounds for a box with some solenoid valves in it!
yeah i got my terms mixed up, #notapkumber
they even told me they do t make spares available to other companies until the product goes out of manufacturer - which means they can charge what they want
I absolutely do not understand why on earth you need a pump when you essentially get main's pressure on the hot water side. Do you not have a high enough mains pressure to support a shower?
The existing system needs a pump and a mixer due to to much difference between the hot and cold water pressures, the pump regulates the flow of cold water, it also lifts the hot water up a floor to the showers. The new system will be pressurised enough to not need it
Why not use a vented cylinder designed for heat pumps, and before anyone says you can’t you can! There are companies that do make cylinder for heat pumps they just have much larger coils. 40 years ago I used to buy special high recovery cylinders for clients who needed them.
i’m sure there are, but to buy the solution from my vendor they will only supply cylinders that are tested by them as guaranteed to work. so my choices are very limited
@@JonathanTraceyMy house is 8 years old, so the hot water tank and system is as cutting edge as it gets, but octopus still wants to change it all if I get the heat pump installed.
I think to get the grant it needs to include a tank that is up to the spec given by the government. The only way to be sure is to change it
if they are not cheap and quite good sell them used and get some money back.
Those are long lasting products and demand for used is always there - it is not cheap chinese crap.
Could be a lot worse.
That’s the plan, once I have the new ones installed will get my plumber to find second homes for them
Hi you are going to hate the shower as the pump you have to fit is usless and very expensive we had a heat pump fitted 2 years ago and had the same shower and had to get a new pump to Handel mains pressure. Biggest regret is the loss of a very good shower
Our plumbers did a pressure test and assure me will be ok, fingers crossed
@@JonathanTracey it’s basically a glorified thermostat
Yep
Going from a vented cylinder to unvented and pressurised wouldn’t have needed a new shower pump.
i’m afraid it does, it’s not just the pump the entire control unit needs to change to support a pressurised system. the brand i have won’t start if there is pressure on the pump.
@@JonathanTraceywhat??? Why do you need a booster pump at all if you’re going to mains pressure? It just makes no sense.
Maybe in am not explaining, the current one is pumped, the new one replies on the pressure in the cylinder, so althought I call the boxes pumps the old one actually pumps y]the new one uses pressure in cylinder
@@JonathanTracey 3 bar mains pressure is enough for a domestic house, The pressure comes from the mains to the tank then showers etc, no need for pumps
@ so what’s in the box? We just removed the pump completely when we got rid of the cold water tank in the loft and plumbed the hot and cold feeds straight into the acqualisa shower.