Hi Jeff. Firstly, thank you for these lectures and the website. I just wanted to point out that in the case of the Kathmandu Valley much of the appropriation has been in the reverse direction; i.e. Hindu appropriation of Buddhist deities. From the 14th century on Newar Buddhism came under increasing political persecution, beginning with the Mallas and followed by the Shahs and Ranas, all of whom were Hindus. Forced to adopt Hindu customs such as the caste system etc., authentic Buddhist practices were either driven underground or forced to adopt Hindu ritualistic forms, and Buddhist temples and icons were gradually absorbed and appropriated into the Hindu fold. Fortunately, much of the history of Buddhism in the Kathmandu Valley still survives in Newari, including the stories of the 32 Vajracārya Mahāsiddhas (Līlāvajra, Bhārovajra (who was the teacher of Drokmi Lotsawa and Marpa), etc.); however, they've yet to be translated.
The main difference is View. All the outer and inner tantras closely resemble many traditions of the regions they were born in but the sublime view of Vajrayana is absolutely unlike any philosophical or religious tradition. The deities, and all phenomena to us is not inherently real from their own side but indeed have a relative existence not to be rejected in a nihilist fashion. This middle path between the extremes of Nihilism and Eternalism is core from the very first texts on view of the Brahmajala Sutta, to the Prajnaparamita texts of Nagarjuna and all forms of Buddhism all the way to the highest practices of Vajrayana which while having renunciation/bodhichitta also has a sublime view unique to Vajrayana that is very very different than any other religious or philosophical system in the world and while it may be available in books or spoken of academically it can be scarecely comprehended outside of the teacher to disciple relationship. The whole context of Svabhava and its rejection by the Buddha and subsequent teachers in Buddhism makes the world of difference in deity yoga as opposed to deity worship. Three Daughters of Mara is a good one! Keep it coming!
It's a great work you guys are doing! I have some comments on the content of this video: 1. Hindu Tantra (Shaiva) and Buddhist Tantra: It is old scholarship that looks from the perspective that Southern Buddhism is pure but the northern is mixed up with Hinduism. This comes from the view that Hindu tantra is older than Buddhist Tantra. Actually, it is other way around. Early Mahayana masters such as Nagarjuna have practiced Vajrayana who is in the lineages of many Vajrayana diety practices. Shaiva tantra, the Kashmiri and the South Indian are from a later period. 2. Evolution of Hinduism: Shiva comes from Rudra from Vedas. Later Shaivism was prominent after the Shiva Puranas were written. So, how can wrathful form of Shiva, Bhairava is appropriated into Mahakala? 3. In the oldest Tantric Hindu literature from Pichu Tantra (Rudrayamala and Bhramayamala) it is said Vasishtha went to MahaChina (Tibet) to study tantra with Shiva-rupi-Buddha. (Shiva in form of Buddha). This is very interesting because, an Indian would go to Tibet to study only after Islamic Invasion. So, this means the oldest Hindu Tantra was developed post Buddhist tantra. Furthermore, Dasa Mahavidyas (Shakta Tantra) is a much latter addition. 4. The whole confusion is due to the 'Hinduism is older than Buddhism'. The truth is: a. It is not! Present day Hinduism is newer than Buddhism. b. Vedic Brahamanism (Vedas) is ofcourse older than Buddha!
Hi Jeff.
Firstly, thank you for these lectures and the website.
I just wanted to point out that in the case of the Kathmandu Valley much of the appropriation has been in the reverse direction; i.e. Hindu appropriation of Buddhist deities. From the 14th century on Newar Buddhism came under increasing political persecution, beginning with the Mallas and followed by the Shahs and Ranas, all of whom were Hindus. Forced to adopt Hindu customs such as the caste system etc., authentic Buddhist practices were either driven underground or forced to adopt Hindu ritualistic forms, and Buddhist temples and icons were gradually absorbed and appropriated into the Hindu fold.
Fortunately, much of the history of Buddhism in the Kathmandu Valley still survives in Newari, including the stories of the 32 Vajracārya Mahāsiddhas (Līlāvajra, Bhārovajra (who was the teacher of Drokmi Lotsawa and Marpa), etc.); however, they've yet to be translated.
Very nice topic ! Thank you
The main difference is View. All the outer and inner tantras closely resemble many traditions of the regions they were born in but the sublime view of Vajrayana is absolutely unlike any philosophical or religious tradition. The deities, and all phenomena to us is not inherently real from their own side but indeed have a relative existence not to be rejected in a nihilist fashion. This middle path between the extremes of Nihilism and Eternalism is core from the very first texts on view of the Brahmajala Sutta, to the Prajnaparamita texts of Nagarjuna and all forms of Buddhism all the way to the highest practices of Vajrayana which while having renunciation/bodhichitta also has a sublime view unique to Vajrayana that is very very different than any other religious or philosophical system in the world and while it may be available in books or spoken of academically it can be scarecely comprehended outside of the teacher to disciple relationship. The whole context of Svabhava and its rejection by the Buddha and subsequent teachers in Buddhism makes the world of difference in deity yoga as opposed to deity worship. Three Daughters of Mara is a good one! Keep it coming!
It's a great work you guys are doing!
I have some comments on the content of this video:
1. Hindu Tantra (Shaiva) and Buddhist Tantra: It is old scholarship that looks from the perspective that Southern Buddhism is pure but the northern is mixed up with Hinduism. This comes from the view that Hindu tantra is older than Buddhist Tantra.
Actually, it is other way around. Early Mahayana masters such as Nagarjuna have practiced Vajrayana who is in the lineages of many Vajrayana diety practices. Shaiva tantra, the Kashmiri and the South Indian are from a later period.
2. Evolution of Hinduism:
Shiva comes from Rudra from Vedas. Later Shaivism was prominent after the Shiva Puranas were written. So, how can wrathful form of Shiva, Bhairava is appropriated into Mahakala?
3. In the oldest Tantric Hindu literature from Pichu Tantra (Rudrayamala and Bhramayamala) it is said Vasishtha went to MahaChina (Tibet) to study tantra with Shiva-rupi-Buddha. (Shiva in form of Buddha).
This is very interesting because, an Indian would go to Tibet to study only after Islamic Invasion. So, this means the oldest Hindu Tantra was developed post Buddhist tantra.
Furthermore, Dasa Mahavidyas (Shakta Tantra) is a much latter addition.
4. The whole confusion is due to the 'Hinduism is older than Buddhism'.
The truth is:
a. It is not! Present day Hinduism is newer than Buddhism.
b. Vedic Brahamanism (Vedas) is ofcourse older than Buddha!
I like this slightly longer, more linear format. Looking forward to more videos like this.
Thank you! I love your videos.
Basically Vajrayana Buddhism is Shaiva Bhakthi with Buddhist Concepts and Shaiva Siddhanta.
There is a story how chakrasamvara subdue Shiva.
Who are you and where do you teach? I want to study with you! Are you in London or the states?
David B gray
Alexis sanderson
They all say the same jeff watt u are right
It was an era of golden mind. You must understand their inner think, to know what's it mean