Like I have said from day one of the current generation release...it is astounding that games this generation on current consoles run as well as they do. The Jaguar is such a massive underpowered bottle neck. If they even kept the current Xbox One X, but replaced the cpu part with Ryzen cores...the improvement would be dramatic. Fantastic video.
@@AdadG Batman Arkham Knight visually looks pretty good on consoles as does the Witcher 3. Though Batman Arkham Knight is using special custom settings on console they for some reason didn't give to PC and well the Port even years later was handled poorly by the devs and publisher. Witcher 3 on base PS4 runs most settings of Witcher on High at 1080P so not bad when counting the anemic CPU and other restraints. Obviously not Ultra and performance is a variable 30 frames which isn't great. Still it shows CD Projekt Red can do well on all systems. Resident Evil 7 and Remake of 2 are also pretty good. I will agree that many 3rd party games do look and feel like crap compared to a properly set up PC, but that isn't new or surprising really. Certain games on One X also look very good for said limitations like Red Dead Redemption 2. Sometimes working with certain limitations gain benefit of finding new methods and ways for performance and graphical fidelity. It is then up to said developers on their skill and understanding on how to be utilize it. If anything it shows how lazy publishers can be when porting or releasing simultaneously the PC version and how many of us have to put a bit work in to run it perfectly depending on our rig set up. Going back to Batman Arkham Knight as a good example of a terrible PC port that even after patches and player fixes it can cause oddities.
I am reminded of how Halo 1 was able to pull off amazing things like every dropped weapon being in the same place for miles behind you thanks to being on the first console with a stock hard drive :)
@XBOXRULES Right now the PlayStation 4 Pro is the most powerful console which runs all games at native 4k upto 120fps. The Xbox One X is only 720p 10fps so it's irrelevant. The next PlayStation will destroy every PC on the planet!
@@benswavey7722 Yeah, that does suck. And they did it so that way you wouldn't have unstable and or dropping refresh rate. But that can still happen when you melee the elite several times on the OG Xbox.
This leap in performance reflect what AMD was then (with jaguar, athlons from 2013) and now with the Zen2 and Navi. Even Polaris wasn't a great competidor.
Yeah, they got crushed by Intel's bribery scheme that wiped out their income and lead to massive losses - had to sell their fab, lost their best staff, etc. They got a payout, eventually, from the legal actions around the world that resulted, but by then, it was too late.
@@mduckernz And Intel got a bit lazy with their expensive product line after all those years. I got a 1800x to replace my old 4gen i5 far cheaper than a new mb + cpu for intel
@@mduckernz AFAIK Intel still hasn't paid the 1 billion € settlement, dragging it through courts and delaying the payment for as much as possible (AMD currently has about 300million $ net income, so that 1 billion would be a nice cash injection, plus, according to leaks Intel just set aside 3 billion $ comp money).
@@TherconJair Ah, I thought they'd at least got SOME of it, but yeah, it's been over 10 years at this point. Goes to show just how malicious and anti-consumer they are. No one should support companies like that. It's a shame, because they have some nice products... they just charge too much for them and behave so badly.
Console optimization will play a huge factor as well, when you look at the PS3 and 360 especially, the games they were able to run, some still looking very good today, is crazy. The PS4 and X1 to a lesser extent but it's still very promising for next gen.
And that's not even counting optimizations considering devs only have to focus on each specific console's hardware when working on those 🙂 Also thanks to Digital Foundry for their hard work and great information!
Exactly. Naughty Dogs developing a PS5 title with the hardware it holds will get way more out of it than if a PC with the same hardware ran that same game. Way harder to optimize for pc.
@@MalphasMikaelson thank you !!! Fkn thank you ! These pc master race don't wanna admit that consoles have better optimization and if ps5 has the power of an rtx 2080 like the benchmark states it would be light years ahead when it comes to the graphics these first party titles can achieve , just look at what naughty dogs have achieved for god sake
Only Sony's studios have this opportunity. Xbox Game Studios develop for PC now so they won't have the option to really exploit their console hardware.
@@boukharroubamabrouk6943 yeah.........but you will be waiting about 4 or 5 years before you finally get those PS5 exclusives by which time we will have GPUs on PC with 20+ terraflops of compute power. also......all those console games are running at 30fps. meanwhile im running games at full 4k max at 80+fps.
Brilliant stuff, Rich. That must have been a lot of work! Yes, the takeaway is all very positive. You put a 12TF GPU in a box with a decent 8 core 16 thread CPU with integrated SSD and hardware accelerated RT all within a streamlined computational environment (i.e. no Windows etc) you’re going to get a pretty fantastic baseline for next gen coding. Roll on 2020.
Yeah, this is great news not just for console owners but for fucking EVERYONE in the gaming industry. Developers will no longer be chained to the frankly horrid Jaguar nonsense. Console players will get to experience a goddamn massive generational leap (even though this generation have given us a wealth of excellent and gorgeous titles), and PC players get to see the baseline hardware targeted by developers take a huge leap forward. Let's go 2020!
@@kingyogesh441 It's never that cut and dry. There's going to be a massive amount of cross gen titles this time around simply because AAA games take so long to develop, so there's going to be a 3 year period minimum where cross gen releases are common. Revamping the technology mid development isn't very common, and as long as the technology isn't revamped specifically for next gen, expect the same scalability we have right now for a few more years (obviously there will be exceptions, but as a general rule).
Oopy Doopy well my point if ps5 will be as powerful if not more then 90% of “PC builds” out their not taking into consideration the massive non windows overhead so if developers truly use them to their full technological potential from day 1 then the minimum specs for games will be more then what 90% of PC gamers have .
The GPU improvements here are wonderful to see. Even if this is less or further than it will actually go, that is a lot more legroom for developers to start hitting consistent 1440/4k@60. And with the better CPUs, I would love to see built in options to allow for lower fidelity but high refresh rate options, like 90/120 while sacrificing resolution or geometry/shader detail. Moreso than the fidelity improvements though, I'm really excited to see world interaction and AI improvements with the new processors though! With that much more power, they could create much more complex AI with many more things going on, environments that are much more destructible and physics based, and many things I can't even think of right now. Super excited to see where this goes, Thanks GF! Edit: I should mention that I'm including checkerboarding and other upscaling methods as being 4k (within reason, I wouldn't consider it that if it was rendering at like 50% scale)
The number I was most interested in during Richard's testing was the 1440p performance figures. I fully suspect that we're going to get a lot of games next gen rendered at 1440p and then checkerboard rendering will be applied to hit 4K output. They've already had pretty decent results, and in light of techniques like variable rate shading (ie: using lower accuracy shading at the edges of the image where people can't really see while maintaining the quality in the most watched areas of the screen) will provide more performance overhead.
"that is a lot more legroom for developers to start hitting consistent 1440/4k@60" They won't, though. They'll push graphics too far and give us 20-30fps, like they always do. That's why I'm not hyped for the next gen consoles at all. It'll just be the same shit, different plastic box. Doesn't matter how powerful the hardware inside is, it won't be utilized properly.
@Inked Sleeve Still the fact that they wont be bound to very weak mobile jaguar cpu's anymore will at least present some interesting scenarios, we will probably see much more pushes for worlds with fun physics, debris and lots of other more cpu dependant effects compared to present generation.
This is actually pretty good given we have reached a pretty good level of graphics fedelity and now it's time to make worlds more interactive and complex. Can't wait for what next gen games play like due to them sweet CPU gains
Honestly fuck 60 FPS. I much prefer graphical detail and complex world environments than FPS levels. At least the PlayStation 5 will be able to play all CURRENT generation games at Native 4K 60 FPS. That's been confirmed. However, future titles obviously at 30 FPS which is FINE.
@@ghostthough7874 So they'll be patching all games to remove the 30 FPS cap, then? I mean, there's plenty of games with a locked frame rate, that won't ever hit 60, no matter what specs you throw at it.
@@halofreak1990 They did that for the PlayStation 4 Pro. I see no reason they wouldn't for the PlayStation 5, especially since backwards compatibility is going to be one of the main selling points of the console.
Very interesting indeed. This definitely gives us an idea of what the PS5 could possibly be like. Suffice to say, I’m actually very excited at the potential for the PS5 compared to PS4 Pro.
I agree. But I'm also interested in what 'murcia has to offer the console wars next gen. So many ps5 "leaks" but the Microsoft camp is still keeping their ships hull relativity leak free so I'm (with the risk of sounding a little like a fanboy. Sorry) more hyped to see official Microsoft news around specifications and "benchmarks".
I am a PC Gamer, but i look forward to it too. As most people know, most developers held back tremendously on innovation and fidelity for the sake of consoles. Something which translated into the PC ports, which were often enough just bad from a technical point of view. Bringing the new Console generation up means the PC variants can be produced and developed with a higher base quality too. Good news for all of us.
That's the fascinating thing about console gamers. For around 6/7 years they'll spread the narrative that performance isn't that important and the human eye can only see 30 fps and other nonsense. And then, for some reason, they contradict themselves by getting excited for new consoles offering better performance. Suddenly upgrades matter, performance matters, framerates matter. For a bit. Then back to denial for 7 more years. It's an amazing psychological phenomenon.
@@randylahey2398 yeah unfortunately some people don't get their facts straight. Approximately 24 frames a second is a minimum for humans to perceive motion without it being "janky". Huge difference. The human eye does not perceive in "fps" since it is a chemical reaction, but there is diminishing returns on fps to so in some titles aiming for 60 with higher visual fidelity (aka graphics) is more logical then aiming for 133 fps.. on more competitive titles a high fps is a matter of win or lose
@Attack of the Pixels the funny thing is isn't ray tracing only exclusive to nvida cards I could have sworn AMD doesn't have any ray tracing cards out. So how will they implement ray tracing if AMD doesn't have ray tracing?
that doesn't make any sense. RIS is not a "reaction" to ray-tracing, the two are totally unrelated. "No reason to sell ice cream on tuesdays unless the bus runs at 11:00." ????
@@taylortripp8598 ray-tracing is not an nvidia-exclusive technology. anyone can do ray-tracing on CPUs, GPUs, or both; ray-tracing has been used since the 1970s. Nvidia is the only company currently shipping hardware with specific hardware acceleration for ray-tracing, but they are neither the only nor the first company to have done so. AMD's Lisa Su has already stated that "ray-tracing is a next-generation thing" for Radeon, so it's likely that the Navi GPUs in the PS5 and Xbox Scarlett will be based on said "next-generation" Radeons.
Oh man please reboot motorstorm on ps5 native 4K/60fps HDR and Dolby atmos it might look like that first CGI trailer of the game maybe add ray tracing with real time reflection the mud stages would look amazing throw in VR support for psvr2.
I can respect the dream, but if we’re remastering racing games, it’s gotta be Jet Moto, from PS1 era. Jet Moto 2 ran like garbage but it was pure cool, man. Hover bike racing at crazy speeds, plus an electromagnetic grappling hook that allows you to make hairpin turns. It was wild, man.
SC174 I mean, yeah, I like the *idea* of VR motorstorm or Jet Moto 2, but... then I think about being in a vehicle with so much speed and such sharp turns in VR and I puke in my mouth a little.
Pretty impressive that RAW performance will roughly be that big of a jump. Once you factor in optimisation that is native to console development, then it'll be even better that what was shown here. Next gen consoles are going to be crazy.
@@keithbrown2711 no it's not. Just look at nvidia shield vs Nintendo Switch comparisons. Nvidia shield is so much worse at running games than Nintendo Switch despite having the same internals
@World traveler PH yes it is. It's a simple observation. Both have the same internals but the dedicated game console performs much better. Of course that's due to optimization on the console manufacturers part and the game developers part Edit: that also reminds me of the kickstarter campaign for a beefy handheld device. You could test them out at gamescom and they ran like crap. Worse than Nintendo Switch despite having much higher specs
@World traveler PH what does the release date have to do with anything. They both have the same internals and yet Switch can run games much better. That was the only point i was trying to make since Keith Brown claimed it was only ~10%
@@teehundeart Nintendo switch vs shield is a separate case, it is ARM based hardware and the switch games are totally different, made especially for it. There is no way to run the same version of a game on shield and switch to make this comparison. Now, make a comparison between a radeon HD 7870 with a PS4, where you can get very close to the version that is running on the console, the performance will not be much different and both gpus are very similar, so the optimization is not great nowadays. You can make this comparison with all consoles of this generation and the result will be the same, very close to its counterpart found in Pc. This is because everyone is x86 based, not as before where each console had a different architecture, running versions made exclusively for them, such as the switch.
I’m deliberately playing ONLY on the current gen consoles instead of my PC until PS5/Scarlett release so I can get that mind blown feeling I got when I went from Megadrive to PS1!
I remember the first time I played in HD and it absolutely blew my mind. Almost as much as the first time I watched a documentary in HD. And then I bought my Xbox One X when Red Dead Redemption 2 came out and it just blew my mind again. Not as much as 480 to 1080 but it still blew my mind.
@@CompetitionChris My mind blowing moment was my first time playing overwatch on my pc with a 144hz 1440p gsync monitor. Absolutely blew my fucking mind.
Important to remember though, the simulated ps5/next gen xbox doesn't have console level hardware optimization like the ps4/pro and x1/x1x do. So if anything the generational improvement may even be considerably more than we see in this comparison. Exciting. 😁👍
Interesting video with kind of a weird conclusion... 1080p not worth the bother because it leaves a lot of GPU power on the table? Sure, if you're running games from this gen. If you up the visual details (i.e. more complex shaders, some RT effects etc) in games, 1080p is definitely back on the table. There's always quite a few thing other than resolution you could use that extra GPU power for, after all. I think we'll see a lot more games running at stable 60FPS around 1440p next gen, but I wouldn't be surprised if many games still produced the odd 1080p frame every now and then. The more "cinematic" games will still target 30 FPS and perhaps favor higher resolution if they can, but my guess is that the extra GPU power will mostly be used for nicer effects, because most people can't tell a 1440p image with good upscaling from native 4K.
It's going to be very interesting to see what kinds of graphical improvements we'll see. I already use a 144hz screen and it's amazing. I think console players with high refresh rate TV's will find out that high framerates makes a game feel a lot better. Next gen will be very interesting !
I just want to say, your analysis and comparisons are always stunning to watch, the way you handle benchmarks and draw conclusions in an educated manner is just...amazing in its own right. consoles have better optimization and this means that 1080p 120/1440p 90/4k 60 at high settings instead of medium will be very possible in AAA titles at least 3-4 years into the console's life cycle, specially from 1st party devs.
He's just disgusted the gains aren't as big as he hoped: CPU: x2.2 to x6.7 (x3 ?) GPU: +82% to +520% (+200% ?) Memory: x1.5 to x2.5 (x2 ?) Storage: x1.6 to x6 (x3 ?) Overall: Decent x3 Performance uplift over the PS4 Pro/Xbox One X. Where the PS4 Pro was roughly x2 faster than the PS4, and the Xbox One X was roughly x4 faster than the Xbox One. This makes the Total Performance Uplift from an Xbox One/PS4 to a PS5/Xbox V somewhere around x6-x12 factor, or roughly x8. Leaked/Rumoured PS5 and Xbox V details: 3.2GHz Zen2 8core/16thread 1.6GHz Navi 32-CU 32GB GDDR6 Shared RAM 1TB (TLC-3D NAND) Sata-SSD Q3 2020 USD $499
One thing you have to remember, Rich, is that the CPU limits placed on games this generation hasn't helped anyone out at all. Think about how much they squeezed out the Jaguars with unbelievable optimisations. Now apply those optimisations to a MUCH more powerful and much higher clocked processor. There's a reason why they're talking software RT imo.
the AMD that provided the tech for current consoles was in a very different place than the current AMD is. Very excited for what the new consoles could bring
That's why I think next gen is just not big leap.. its giant Leap! When Ps4 and XB1 released AMD had shitty gpu and not so good gpu.. but Now Amd has made best Cpu and good gpu.. So Next Gen is going to be Mind-blowing!
Loadtimes, general quality of life and graphics will improve massively but I expect 30fps to continue as the target for the big publishers (argh). The generational leap feels like it will be largely for those of us into console VR and I hope MS gets into it, those of us who grew up with 8bit home computers then the NES and those who are older than us, easily fall in love with PSVR or better and it's no wonder. It's where we gotta go to feel something truly new and refreshing.
Yes. The CPUs will enable far more game simulation to be done at any given time. That means, if the developer so pleases, more interactive worlds. It also means more actors (NPCS) present as well. More precise physics calculations too. The GPUs are coming with Radeon's hardware based raytracing (likely a combination of fixed function hardware and software features as per AMD's documentation). This combined with both consoles seemingly having guaranteed SSDs in them means at the very LEAST there will be faster loading and fewer streaming based stutters in games.
Im happy with double the performance of X. If x is hitting loads at 4k 30 that translates to 4k 60 locked.. Im more than happy with that. Games that have 4k 60 now will have more bells and whistles and extra polish. Cant wait.
@@happygofishing7590 You can find 5700xt on sale for decent price, but if you can wait then new gpu will be out in next year both from nVidia with ampere and amd rdna 2.0
@@happygofishing7590 it will go down. RTX 3XX series will launch next year and probably RDNA 2 will follow. Consoles will be the mid to high GPU standard and will be equal to RTX 3X70 maximal or 3060 minimum.
Sad that you forget about The Evil Within 2. This game runs on Xbox One X with fixed1800p and with ability to play with unlocked framerates. Even if it most of the times under 30 fps line.
I dont see that happening , in the contrary most games are mostly gonna be online or pvp with very minimal story driven games , and even those are gonna be shorter , not to mention everything is gonna be designed around game streaming . Gaming as we know it will soon die out
@@Yamato-t3d except next gen is not about streaming, i am 100% against streaming games, its trash. these next gen consoles are the classic console launches that we know and love. as for games, we will have to wait and see, but i for one can't wait to play dying light 2 and doom eternal on PS5! Not to mention maybe a spider man 2 and another killzone.
@@Yamato-t3d the fact that data caps are still rampant among providers in the US proves you wrong just on principle. Even if these consoles were pure streaming consoles (they arent anything resembling that, and have been repeatedly shown to not be) sony and microsoft would have to be utterly blind to see how much of a colossal failure that would be both commercially and internally.
Honestly, I'm not too worried about people being unimpressed by the leap from PS4Pro/One X. There are millions more base PS4s and Xbox Ones out there. The leap from 2013 hardware to what's coming in 2020 is going to be massive. Man, it feels good to get a generation where the GPU and CPU are getting at least 2x better than previous. The last time we had as big a CPU leap was from PS2/XB to PS3/360.
RicochetForce are you really this ignorant ? The jump from The PS3/Xbox 360 to Jaguar was at least 2x better. Jaguar was weak compared to modern CPUs but was far beyond the 360
@@chalpua8802 No, the Jaguar was considered a weak CPU even back then. It was a pathetic, middling step forward after nearly a decade. So much so that even ancient CPUs from that era outdo them. It's part and parcel why PC gaming has been so affordable: The consoles were hideously underpowered this gen. The normal console CPU/GPU leap is 5-8x, and we're seeing that leap from base to their next gen successors.
RicochetForce it was about a 5-7x GPU jump from 360 to PS4. The CPU was still faster than the ps3. Its weak compared to a high end 2008 chip which is pathetic. It’s not a good CPU at all but it’s still superior to the previous gen by a good bit. This next gen is going to be amazing though. Probably one of the largest jumps in a long time.
@@chalpua8802 No, the Jaguar was also weak even going from the PS3's CELL architecture. It was something along the lines of a 100% increase, maybe slightly more but that was it. It was pathetic. Even low end shit like i3s from that era are better. Microsot and Sony picked the Jaguar because of one reason only: Cost. They were dirt cheap and both companies were price shy after the 7-8 years of loss leader consoles.
RicochetForce Jaguar was ALL AMD had available. Sony and Microsoft didn’t want to build exclusive expensive hardware. Jaguar is an X86 CPU which alone makes it easier to code for and it’s faster than the previous gen by at least 2x. Yes it’s weak compared to even FX processors which sucked. Jaguar sucks but it was what was available at the time. The GPU in the consoles were significantly better than the previous at around 5-6x. So it was still a large jump. The processors just couldn’t hit 60fps. This gen will be one of the best like you said though. It’s going to be insane
It depends on how you look at it, the gpu leap is likely to be small and I suspect in the ball park of the RX5700 which is still solid but not massive over what the Xbox One X does already. The real leap is the cpu and SSD as that is a massive leap over what consoles have now and will allow developers to do things they just can't do at the moment, that for me is the real game changer, now the gpu or ray tracing.
Paul Aiello Is the Gonzalo 1.8 GHZ 8-Core CPU for next gen fast? I thought ii would be like this: Much Better GPU PERFORMANCE Decent better CPU PERFORMANCE Than current gen
@@paul1979uk2000 I mean, its just under a 2X performance at native 4K, not an upscaled 4K. That is huge considering the ps4 barely played games at native 1440p on settings that varied from low to high, which PC would still have a very high and Ultra(Max) setting above that. Now its going to be Very High settings 1440p60fps in bigger and more detailed worlds with an SSD
@@imo098765 "Now it's going to be Very High settings 1440p60fps" It's most likely going to just be high settings, there isn't much visual difference between High and Very High anyways. PS4 plays games mostly run at medium and low especially for most of the demanding games.
DF should be awarded for their thoroughly researched videos and flawless presentation. There is so much half baked content out there esp. regarding current gen consoles, I'm delighted that there are people who put in that much work.
Yeah? I never see consoles making 60fps standard. It would mean nerfing the consoles gfx even more in it's late stages to keep that 60 as GFX advance, particularly with that added RTX since it's all the hype rn. Games may run 60fps in 2021 on console, but can we expect a consoles hardware to compete with newer tech in 2025 running new games with better hardware? I don't see the console community taking that well. I do like seeing the option for framerate optimization on my PS4 Pro, especially on games online though the games with that function are few and far between.
sony and microsoft can promise the consumer 7+years of 30fps 4k AAA gaming 60fps not possible not even with the coming rtx 3080.....and no one wants to play at 1080p on a big TV (terrible english:)
This is one of the reasons I get excited for next gen. Consoles dictate the pace of graphics evolution these days, not PC. so if we get a powerful next gen specs then it means nothing but good things for the PC too.
@@allansh828 Yea only few games like Star Citizen shows how amazing games could look if they were solely focused on PC. That game looks gens ahead of any game out right now... The level of detail is absolutely insane.
Also, GDDR6 will contribute very well in the next-gen consoles i believe, especially with the super fast SSD's.. and with all of that, 4K will be the new 1080p and hopefully 60 FPS will be the new 30 thanks to the huge jump in CPU power .
30 fps will still be common and king in consoles. Framerate is a developer choice. If a developer is overambitious and trying to run high quality assets, effects, simulation, etc... at the same time and do NOT want to compromise on any of it? You're going to get a 30fps game. And if people can't tell the difference between 30 fps and 60fps (a lot of casual gamers cannot) well, there you go.
@@RicochetForce i'm not against this policy, i'm a graphics guy myself and i'm OK with stable 30 FPS games specially with great motion blur all the way .. but what i was trying to say is that with all of this power at your disposal, 60 FPS games will be more common if not the standard when there is all of this headroom available, still, Targeting 30 FPS can produce spectacular results technically speaking but imagine having great looking games with no visual compromises to consider alongside 60 FPS targets, i think that is pretty doable in the next generation consoles . Doom 2016 looked awesome on consoles this gen despite the fact that it was targeting a very stable 60 FPS even on base machines and all of that was done on a very weak CPU . So in the end it all depends on how much effort developers put in the process of making of their games .
@@xplayndo5890 Oh, if you were simply expressing that this higher average level of performance in the consoles relative to contemporary PC hardware will make it easier for developers to hit (and maintain) 60fps, I agree. The absolute dogshit Jaguar meant that for developers to hit 60 they'd have to sacrifice a lot, more than most were comfortable with. But still it does depend on, as you said, how much work they're willing to put in to optimize their game and hit their render target. That means deep, engine level tweaks, more aggressive frustrum culling, better asset decompression and streaming, the works. For a lot of devs they simply don't have the time or money to dig down that deep.
You are still comparing navi gen 1 with the xbox one x and ps4 pro. PS5 and Xbox Scarlett will use Navi gen 2 (better IPC, better instruction sets) and will use 7nm+ EUV lithography. A console with 50-60 compute units is not out of the question.
if you actually run cinebench r15 on a ps4, you will get a multicore score of about 350 and single score of about 45. so these projections are definitely spot on. zen 2 is such a huge deal for next gen.
The SSD will allow for streaming environments to be more dense - you could raise the LOD levels by an order of magnitude. If you can load something fast enough from storage and your resource management is smart? you can free up graphics memory of things that would normally have to be more persistent given the size of the data. This essentially means that more of the memory can be dedicated to what's actually visible knowing that the SSD will deliver on time.
SSD will not be used for LOD since it is too slow for that. System RAM could be used as an extension of GPU RAM. SSD loading strategy will be utilized for getting rid of loading screens, since as you approach the end of the level, while still playing, the SSD cache-in could already kick in.
60fps NEEDS to be a minimum benchmark for both of these next gen machines. We're now at a point where channels like this and nx gamer have been showing console gamers what they've been missing with those anemic jaguar cores, and the public, specifically the gaming public, knows it now more than ever. Pamdoras box has been opened. There's no closing it now.
60fps is a developer choice. You can make a 60 fps game on damn near ANY hardware. What's happening is that developers, publishers, and marketing departments are finding that you can sell games far more easily if their videos and screenshots have a ton of bells and whistles. And the only way to use those added effects is to increase the amount of time between rendered (and output) frames. Hence 30fps games. Notice how far developers of simpler games hit 60fps+ no problem? Since they're not throwing everything + the kitchen sink worth of effects into their game at any given time the game can easily pump out new frames.
@@shreder75 They will NEVER be powerful enough to handle "fidelity and performance" cause every new game is always made to function with best possible settings. All new games are always made with fidelity being #1 performance being #2. So it's up to the developers if their games hit 60 FPS on a console. Console could have a fucking 2080 Ti and it might still be below 60 FPS if the developers choose. It's not the console or the hardware that dedicates FPS, it's the developer. There have been instances where games COULD easily have hit 60 FPS on the PlayStation 4, but the developers PURPOSELY capped it at 30 FPS to reduce "stutter"
@@ghostthough7874 if a game hits 60, there IS no stutter. If there is stutter, it's because the game is going beyond the hardware or it's a poorly made game. With zen architecture, devs will finally be able to balance fidelity and performance. Look at some modern games. God or war, hzd, rdr2 on the x. The games are already gorgeous and hitting near 4k res, but the crap cpu doesn't allow for 60 fps at those graphics settings.
Kabini is fine if you don't do too much with it, I bought a Thin client that has a GX-420ca in it which is the embedded version of the Athlon 5350. Old games, and music and videos suit it just fine. But it's definitely not a gaming system. But for an HTPC it's pretty great.
Love stuff like this, thanks Richard ! I've always felt that the end result of a true next generational leap would be that we could play something like Horizon Zero Dawn at proper full 4K while also having the game run at 60 fps ... just as a minimum goal. Obviously there would have to be some leftover power beyond that to account for shader upgrades , possible SSD improvements coupled with having adequate VRAM at adequate bandwidth to create a stutter free experience with some next gen tech. Hypothetical real wold comparison PC builds like this are cool because I feel they actually do give us a pretty good idea of what to expect with actual games. It really looks like my personal expected target will be met with the hardware choices being made here , any game that can run at 30 FPS/1440p (or 1440p+checkerboarding) should be able to muster 60 FPS /2160p and based on your benchmarks , I'd wager even a modern "next gen" game engine will probably manage 1440p/60fps without too much trouble. At least for those first couple of years. The remaining wild card is still ray tracing.... , Cerny recently admitted there's some kind of hardware level solution perhaps even included right on what is sure to be a custom built APU... so just what is it ? how powerful is it compared to Nvidias RT cores ? based on the pricing of RTX cards and the resulting performance hit , what can we really expect there ? I'm just assuming it'll be some kind of assist to "fake it" , like a checkerboarding version of ray tracing. Somehow render the effect for only 1 thing (maybe just 1 type of shadow even ?) with a minimal number of rays cast from only some light sources at a fairly low resolution and then some kind of post processing cleans it up at a minimal performance cost. I just really want to see a return to PS2 level framerates where it felt like most games generally ran pretty fast and now we can expect 1440+ resolutions at a minimum coupled with high frame rates... after so long I just don't want to see a game hampered with sub 30 fps just to turn on fancier shadows and really wonder what level of compromise AMD has come up with to make this expensive new RT tech work. That video will probably have to wait until we have a better idea of just WHAT it is right?
@@DrJones20 That was my implied reasoning yes, the exact same current gen game running at full 4K and 60 fps. Kind of like How last of Us went from 720p/30 to 1080p/60 when it was ported from PS3 to PS4.
People are looking at the power of the new consoles, I’m looking at the power of the new cards being released by nvidia and amd during the time of the new consoles. Since the fact will be that the consoles will include a low - mid range next gen gpu. Can’t wait to see what the high end - enthusiast offerings are for us pc gamers.
Faris Ali meh I have a 4K monitor, and it makes those *console ports* look gorgeous, sure they don’t have any special pc only effects and lighting but not even the current 2080ti can comfortably run recent AAA games at 4K max 60+. So I’m pretty hyped so see what the new generation cards will offer.
Tasso yeah that’s interesting. I think it’s just going to be a more powerful 2080TI where it can comfortably run high FPS 4K HDR Raytracing without a sweat
Transistor Jump what ever makes u sleep at night, the consoles coming out in December 2020 are already using 3 year old CPU’s (at the time of launch) the ryen 2nd gen, and gpu are typically low-mid range amd offerings.
I didn't hear power draw mentioned at all. I'd assume they want their maximum power draw from the wall to not exceed 300-315 watts. How does that factor into your theories?
They didn't consider it due to them not considering that they go for looks over cooling and in every case for dev kits they are clocked higher than launch hardware, we also dunno what the price will be for them
@@denan1 It will not consume 400 Watt. It´s a console. The console will not exceed 250 watts which already seems to be highly over anything I would see as reasonable noise wise (despite whatever excellent cooling system they might have designed). 400 Watt is a crazy amount of heat for such small devices.
@@Koeras16 I've read PS4 Pro peaks at 315, which is what I drew my number from. Xbox One X I have heard is lower, like the 240 range. I think its an important metric that DigitalFoundry seems to completely ignore, so I'd like to see them start including it.
@@Motleyguts The pro is also based on two ps4 gpu dies and is everything but efficient in it´s design. Though it´s a good point. Didn´t even know that it consumed that much. Wonder if they used a vapor chamber.
it doesn't matter what the specs are with next gen consoles, give it few months and developers will find a way to release their games at 1080p with wabbly 30fps.
I expect in the worst case scenario a gpu equating to a gtx 1080 and at best a gpu like a gtx 1080ti with raytracing and gddr6...incredible improvements also in the storage things, backward compatibility and a rebuilt software development..
Since it' a custom SSD build directly connected to the motherboard, it's possible that there won't be expandable storages. If there is, it'll probably be a "Sony only" accessory for the console due to how they design the internal hardware. So you could be looking at 100-200 USD for a new 1 TB expandable SSD storage. However, I am 100% confident there will only be 1 TB of SSD storage in the console at launch.
@@ghostthough7874 Yeah probably. Gotta keep the cost down. I hope it's expandable or the PS5 has some kind of fast dedicated port for expandable storage.
I think the SSD and how its utilised is gonna be the secret sauce in the next gen consoles. I doubt it will be used in the same manner as a traditional SSD like I used in my current pc but may act more like a buffer between the HDD and the rest of the hardware for extremely fast loading and rendering. Games specificly developed for the next gen may utilise some new tricks using the combination to an advantage we haven't seen before to get better looking games from less powerful hardware. I doubt it will be 8k mind you, even 4k 60 is wishful thinking outside of a game like Forza or Gran Turismo. 4k 30 is what we are likely to see with fast load times, better physics, Ai, shadows, bloom, lighting etc, etc. Personally where red dead, resident evil, and God of war are at just now on ps4 pro I am satisfied with how they look and play already, everything beyond this point is a bonus.
The only problem with these comparisons is that once the baseline performance is much higher, how developers will use that power will change. Right now games have to run on a mobile processor with a GPU that is several generations old with some newer generation features. If you have power beyond that in a PC, you are just playing a game made priamirly for that weaker platform with extra bells and whistles. I think that the jump in visuals that we see should he greater than just a PS4 game with the graphics set to max.
I highly doubt that CPU will be 3.2GHz. It will probably be something like 2.4Ghz or 2.6GHz. They have to keep power consumption low on console specially when it is an APU with CPU shared with GPU. They need most of the power for GPU clocks. However, even at 2.6Ghz it should be ~4 times faster than PS4 Pro CPU in multi-cores performance
3.2 on 7nm is efficient, your looking at about 30 to 40 watts maximum and its below all base Ryzen 2 clock speeds. The 3700 is already a 65 watt tdp part and the base clock is not even close to that low. Both the CPU and the GPU actually have elements in them beyond the current architecture. There is also a rumor of double the threads on the CPU which would be insane.
@@WinterCharmVT That is without running optimized software also... Zen 2 has double the FP bandwidth of even Zen1.... these demos almost certainly don't tap any of that.
I have my PS5 here at home already! Well ok, not really, but my Ryzon 7 3700x, plus an RX 5900, matching, plus already beating it in some areas. All upgrade paths open as well.
This is a pretty nice video. Good for not mentioning the PC gaming side here, cause as we all know, the actual performance and problems matter highly, just think of Windows updates, graphics DRIVERS, all this crap that hinders and changes performance pretty often on PC. Not even talking about the lack of optimization on the PC-ports. All results in often times having really crappy performance on the PC, meanwhile many of us already enjoy the presented HW of this video....what we can all gain once the new generation of consoles became standard, is that developers will no longer need to consider the current limitations while designing the games. PC is never the main port for games, obviously, so it was always standard - sadly - that you had to buy 2-3x the hardware on the PC-side to compensate for the crappy PC-code. There are only a handful of exceptions where they really treat PC version separately and optimize it soon after release, not 2 years after console release
Since 4K has already been marketed to consumers with the Pro and X models, I think Sony and Microsoft should market these consoles as the 60fps and more consoles.
I did a TEST with my 3900x and made it a 8 Core 16 Thread and let ran it Cinebench R15. The Results: 8/16 @ 3.0 Ghz takes 47 Watts -> 1524 Points 8/16 @ 2.5 ghz takes 43 Watts -> 1283 Points For references my old 1700 @ Stock with 3.2 Ghz had 1391 Points. The PS4 Pro with 7 Cores (Ps4 has 8 Cores but only lets you use 7 Cores): 8 Core @ 2.1 Ghz -> 343 Points.
Factoring in the reserved resources is probably going to skew the comparison, as the upcoming consoles will also have some resources reserved for the OS - likely one core and a small portion of the RAM, as per previous consoles.
It's gonna be interesting for console owners to deal with updates, game updates, data management (transfer games between external and internal storage), presumably different game settings targeting high refresh displays, 4K displays, or some kind of middleground setting. When this is what consoles has become. PCs actually seem easier to work with. Especially since game updates happen in the background when you use the computer for other tasks.
30 fps in most of the games so nothing impressive and dont get me started on the hideous use of motion blur depth of field and strong AA to deliver some muddy results.
Great video, i loved the effort to get things close to what the rumors are speculating. But im still really bugged by the fact that the SSD that you say is a Nvme ssd is in fact a SATA m.2 offering only 1/4th the read and write speeds of even a gen3 Nvme, and less than 1/6th the speed of a gen4 Nvme (in the new consoles) these test werent really testing anything to do with loading so its not a huge deal, but an oversight nonetheless. Unless the b-roll of that asus board was incorrect
The One X would have a performance advantage over Pro if the devs would stop doing 4K which the console cannot handle. The console can do 4K, but is 4K worth it if the performance sucks and the textures are still poor?
X is massively bottlenecked by the CPU. Ms didn't learn from Sony's mistakes and tried to push both 4K, better fps and promised new exclusives, ultimately failing on all fronts
Great video, I have been waiting for this for ages!!! I have a 2080 ti rig and ps4 Pro and one x and I have been debating if I want to grab a ps5... This has helped me decide that :) Hell yeah ill get a new ps!
@@awesome9174 agree, as long as the his Ps4's are running the must have he wants well enough. Too bad Nvidia are such poor mannered w*nkers they burn bridges with every console partnership. [even nintendo would bail if they could, they are very angry with nvidia over the tegra fault that made first gen switch hard hackable].
I have a dumb console gamer question. By the time ps5 or xbox 2 come out, won't the hardware in them be current existing PC hardware ? Like, aren't console gamers not realizing that "Next gen" consoles will be more along the lines of what we already see in high end...
No, not necessarily. For example it's been confirmed that the ps5 will have a zen 2 cpu, but AMD is on track to have a zen 3 cpu released by the time the ps5 comes out.
I think most console users who are tuned into the tech world are more than aware of that - the days of consoles offering a huge technological leap beyond what we thought was possible are long gone. However, even though next gen consoles will effectively be equivalent to the PCs of the here and now, the gains will be massive going forward. The current gen consoles launched with what were effectively mid-range GPUs at the time, but they were often bottlenecked by the poor Jaguar CPUs. This really limited what devs were able to do both in terms of holding frame rate targets, as well as actual in-game simulation tasks. Still, many studios have been able to do fantastic things with these machines, even with the aforementioned limitations. Now, imagine the baseline of games going forward being built with PC-level GPUs of today, BUT with actual modern CPU technology. Combine that with low-level access to a solid state drive, and the floor for what developers are going to be able to achieve is going to rise *dramatically*. We'll have good GPUs that aren't being limited by weak CPUs, which means that many devs are going to have an easier time hitting and maintaining performance targets, as well as being able to be much more ambitious with the underlying design of their games. It doesn't really matter that consoles will inevitably be behind PCs (again, the days of consoles leading the pack in terms of tech are long gone), what matters is that the games will benefit from this fundamental shift in hardware focus.
@@Toa_Axis Thanks for the explanation dude. Yea, I try to pay attention to PC culture. I have always wanted to start gaming on a nice system, but have always been limited by time and money. I watch Linus media and Digital Foundry all day. It just struck me when the marketing for the new xbox is "Resolutipn and FPS like we've never seen before". I'm like " EXAGGERATED, TELL THE TRUTH"
@@AvieeNash There is a reason why it isn't out yet, 7nm will be much cheaper next year also they can put worse cpu cores in consoles since they will run at very low clocks.
Wht would you need a UHD in the first place in a pc? Sounds like with the x, you are just going to make up things to compare. I still laugh when I think about you using a blu ray drive and a network card to add to your pc price 😂 Since neither are needed.
With all this power if they don’t prioritise frame rates I will lose my shit. 1080p60 should’ve been achieved and became the minimum last generation but didn’t happen due to weak cpus.
Considering the clock speeds on the CPUs being cut back from the desk top equivalent the results here do not surprise me. Impressive as hell and well tested.
@@pandassudsnshine4125 As a 2060 owner I wouldn't upgrade for rtx until the 3000 series comes out which should hopefully have performance improvements. RTX is not worth it right now if you're looking for performance that will actually last.
I’m really interested in what PS5 can do with a PS VR Pro / VR 2 headset. Maybe higher rez with wider angle view at 90-120 FPS depending on graphical fidelity of the game. I haven’t tried PSVR but hear it’s a bit low Rez with limited FOV. Seems like Xbox is gonna wait til the 10th gen in 2028 or so for VR
Will be very interesting to see what the new consoles bring! Not that I intend to get one but since they use Zen 2 cores this will really enable devs to do stuff the CPU in the old consoles couldn't handle and this is good for me as a PC gamer as well. Theoretical performamce in the Xbox 360 CPU was higher than that of the One even ffs. So this will be a gigantic leap in performamce.
These are rather interesting projections. If Gonzalo's rumored 1.8 GHz clock is to be believed, it will probably be paired with the smaller 36 CU variant. That would keep thermals under control, and probably help whoever will manufacture the chips (TSMC?) increase yields as well, keeping costs down.
@@denan1 We'll have to see how it goes, so far it's all rumor and speculation anyways. If the new consoles are releasing for the holidays 2020, with TSMC's 7nm production lead times up to 6 months at the moment the chips will have to be finalized and ordered early next year, so there inevitably will be more leaks by then.
Everytime Richard is in a video, I watch 2 times. I have to listen to the hands, then listen to richard.
The hands are not his, theyre coming from under the table
Hahaha
antwango love it XD
Digital Foundry is an extremely cosy channel.
d'you reckon?
@@erelpc I do.
Like I have said from day one of the current generation release...it is astounding that games this generation on current consoles run as well as they do. The Jaguar is such a massive underpowered bottle neck. If they even kept the current Xbox One X, but replaced the cpu part with Ryzen cores...the improvement would be dramatic. Fantastic video.
Exactly! i don't think most people understand just how drastic of a improvement Zen 2 is going to make.
What? Exclusives apart, most of them runs and looks horrible.
Adad G what non-exclusives do you think make the cut?
@@AdadG Batman Arkham Knight visually looks pretty good on consoles as does the Witcher 3. Though Batman Arkham Knight is using special custom settings on console they for some reason didn't give to PC and well the Port even years later was handled poorly by the devs and publisher. Witcher 3 on base PS4 runs most settings of Witcher on High at 1080P so not bad when counting the anemic CPU and other restraints. Obviously not Ultra and performance is a variable 30 frames which isn't great. Still it shows CD Projekt Red can do well on all systems. Resident Evil 7 and Remake of 2 are also pretty good. I will agree that many 3rd party games do look and feel like crap compared to a properly set up PC, but that isn't new or surprising really. Certain games on One X also look very good for said limitations like Red Dead Redemption 2. Sometimes working with certain limitations gain benefit of finding new methods and ways for performance and graphical fidelity. It is then up to said developers on their skill and understanding on how to be utilize it. If anything it shows how lazy publishers can be when porting or releasing simultaneously the PC version and how many of us have to put a bit work in to run it perfectly depending on our rig set up. Going back to Batman Arkham Knight as a good example of a terrible PC port that even after patches and player fixes it can cause oddities.
@@AdadG DMC5 disagrees with you. AAA quality and the game even runs at 1080p60fps on the 2013 base consoles.
I am reminded of how Halo 1 was able to pull off amazing things like every dropped weapon being in the same place for miles behind you thanks to being on the first console with a stock hard drive :)
This basically spoiled me for every other game I played. It drove me insane when items or dropped enemies disappeared after a few seconds.
Elliot Bridgewater “and storage”
The entire point of his comment. Duh.
@XBOXRULES Right now the PlayStation 4 Pro is the most powerful console which runs all games at native 4k upto 120fps. The Xbox One X is only 720p 10fps so it's irrelevant. The next PlayStation will destroy every PC on the planet!
TH3WICK3D3ND 0/10 troll attempt. Very low energy. Sad!
@@benswavey7722 Yeah, that does suck. And they did it so that way you wouldn't have unstable and or dropping refresh rate.
But that can still happen when you melee the elite several times on the OG Xbox.
This leap in performance reflect what AMD was then (with jaguar, athlons from 2013) and now with the Zen2 and Navi. Even Polaris wasn't a great competidor.
Yeah, they got crushed by Intel's bribery scheme that wiped out their income and lead to massive losses - had to sell their fab, lost their best staff, etc.
They got a payout, eventually, from the legal actions around the world that resulted, but by then, it was too late.
@@mduckernz And Intel got a bit lazy with their expensive product line after all those years. I got a 1800x to replace my old 4gen i5 far cheaper than a new mb + cpu for intel
@Davin S Just a little hahaha specially on mobile cpus!
@@mduckernz AFAIK Intel still hasn't paid the 1 billion € settlement, dragging it through courts and delaying the payment for as much as possible (AMD currently has about 300million $ net income, so that 1 billion would be a nice cash injection, plus, according to leaks Intel just set aside 3 billion $ comp money).
@@TherconJair Ah, I thought they'd at least got SOME of it, but yeah, it's been over 10 years at this point. Goes to show just how malicious and anti-consumer they are. No one should support companies like that. It's a shame, because they have some nice products... they just charge too much for them and behave so badly.
Richard: Navi based consoles
Subtitles: RV based consoles
A console to take on road trips, I can dig it.
@@spooky_electric but that would be å tegra based system (switch)
@@spooky_electric so, the switch
@@spooky_electric *Nintendo joined the chat*
Generikb has joined the chat.
The "NICE" part was fantastic :D
NOICE :>
@@MyReksio NOICEEEEEEE :D
a timestamp would be nice :)
@@AniRayn 2:24
Console optimization will play a huge factor as well, when you look at the PS3 and 360 especially, the games they were able to run, some still looking very good today, is crazy. The PS4 and X1 to a lesser extent but it's still very promising for next gen.
But the Xbox One X OS uses 3 GB ram only, so that optimization is not true...
Makes you appreciate what they managed to get out of that jag cpu
Not really. I can't appreciate 22 fps gameplay, no matter how you spin it.
@@madfinntech cool
@@madfinntech
Well, *excluding you, everyone else* can appreciate it.
or makes you shake your head at such a shitty phone CPU being used in a gaming console.
@@soulsbourne ps5 exclusives nextgen are gonna look like pre rendered trailers
The hand moves are so smooth, rock solid framerate 👌
And that's not even counting optimizations considering devs only have to focus on each specific console's hardware when working on those 🙂
Also thanks to Digital Foundry for their hard work and great information!
Exactly. Naughty Dogs developing a PS5 title with the hardware it holds will get way more out of it than if a PC with the same hardware ran that same game. Way harder to optimize for pc.
@@MalphasMikaelson thank you !!! Fkn thank you ! These pc master race don't wanna admit that consoles have better optimization and if ps5 has the power of an rtx 2080 like the benchmark states it would be light years ahead when it comes to the graphics these first party titles can achieve , just look at what naughty dogs have achieved for god sake
@@boukharroubamabrouk6943 Most pc gamers don't want to admit their i5 9600k and rtx 2060 is weaker than a console.
Only Sony's studios have this opportunity. Xbox Game Studios develop for PC now so they won't have the option to really exploit their console hardware.
@@boukharroubamabrouk6943 yeah.........but you will be waiting about 4 or 5 years before you finally get those PS5 exclusives by which time we will have GPUs on PC with 20+ terraflops of compute power. also......all those console games are running at 30fps. meanwhile im running games at full 4k max at 80+fps.
Brilliant stuff, Rich. That must have been a lot of work! Yes, the takeaway is all very positive. You put a 12TF GPU in a box with a decent 8 core 16 thread CPU with integrated SSD and hardware accelerated RT all within a streamlined computational environment (i.e. no Windows etc) you’re going to get a pretty fantastic baseline for next gen coding. Roll on 2020.
Yeah, this is great news not just for console owners but for fucking EVERYONE in the gaming industry. Developers will no longer be chained to the frankly horrid Jaguar nonsense. Console players will get to experience a goddamn massive generational leap (even though this generation have given us a wealth of excellent and gorgeous titles), and PC players get to see the baseline hardware targeted by developers take a huge leap forward.
Let's go 2020!
RicochetForce anything less then a 5700xt and a ryzen 3700x will be outdated come next gen so not so good news for PC at least for short term
@@kingyogesh441 It's never that cut and dry. There's going to be a massive amount of cross gen titles this time around simply because AAA games take so long to develop, so there's going to be a 3 year period minimum where cross gen releases are common. Revamping the technology mid development isn't very common, and as long as the technology isn't revamped specifically for next gen, expect the same scalability we have right now for a few more years (obviously there will be exceptions, but as a general rule).
@@kingyogesh441 i agree it would be ps4 and xbox one all over again......they have to have better then 5700x
Oopy Doopy well my point if ps5 will be as powerful if not more then 90% of “PC builds” out their not taking into consideration the massive non windows overhead so if developers truly use them to their full technological potential from day 1 then the minimum specs for games will be more then what 90% of PC gamers have .
The GPU improvements here are wonderful to see. Even if this is less or further than it will actually go, that is a lot more legroom for developers to start hitting consistent 1440/4k@60. And with the better CPUs, I would love to see built in options to allow for lower fidelity but high refresh rate options, like 90/120 while sacrificing resolution or geometry/shader detail.
Moreso than the fidelity improvements though, I'm really excited to see world interaction and AI improvements with the new processors though! With that much more power, they could create much more complex AI with many more things going on, environments that are much more destructible and physics based, and many things I can't even think of right now. Super excited to see where this goes, Thanks GF!
Edit: I should mention that I'm including checkerboarding and other upscaling methods as being 4k (within reason, I wouldn't consider it that if it was rendering at like 50% scale)
1440p with checkerboard rendering is the sweet spot
The number I was most interested in during Richard's testing was the 1440p performance figures. I fully suspect that we're going to get a lot of games next gen rendered at 1440p and then checkerboard rendering will be applied to hit 4K output. They've already had pretty decent results, and in light of techniques like variable rate shading (ie: using lower accuracy shading at the edges of the image where people can't really see while maintaining the quality in the most watched areas of the screen) will provide more performance overhead.
"that is a lot more legroom for developers to start hitting consistent 1440/4k@60"
They won't, though. They'll push graphics too far and give us 20-30fps, like they always do. That's why I'm not hyped for the next gen consoles at all. It'll just be the same shit, different plastic box. Doesn't matter how powerful the hardware inside is, it won't be utilized properly.
@Inked Sleeve Still the fact that they wont be bound to very weak mobile jaguar cpu's anymore will at least present some interesting scenarios, we will probably see much more pushes for worlds with fun physics, debris and lots of other more cpu dependant effects compared to present generation.
up to 120 fps is already confirmed for xbox scarlett
This is actually pretty good given we have reached a pretty good level of graphics fedelity and now it's time to make worlds more interactive and complex. Can't wait for what next gen games play like due to them sweet CPU gains
but with 60fps ;)
Honestly fuck 60 FPS. I much prefer graphical detail and complex world environments than FPS levels. At least the PlayStation 5 will be able to play all CURRENT generation games at Native 4K 60 FPS. That's been confirmed. However, future titles obviously at 30 FPS which is FINE.
@@ghostthough7874 u be trippin
@@ghostthough7874 So they'll be patching all games to remove the 30 FPS cap, then? I mean, there's plenty of games with a locked frame rate, that won't ever hit 60, no matter what specs you throw at it.
@@halofreak1990 They did that for the PlayStation 4 Pro. I see no reason they wouldn't for the PlayStation 5, especially since backwards compatibility is going to be one of the main selling points of the console.
Very interesting indeed.
This definitely gives us an idea of what the PS5 could possibly be like.
Suffice to say, I’m actually very excited at the potential for the PS5 compared to PS4 Pro.
I agree. But I'm also interested in what 'murcia has to offer the console wars next gen.
So many ps5 "leaks" but the Microsoft camp is still keeping their ships hull relativity leak free so I'm (with the risk of sounding a little like a fanboy. Sorry) more hyped to see official Microsoft news around specifications and "benchmarks".
I am a PC Gamer, but i look forward to it too. As most people know, most developers held back tremendously on innovation and fidelity for the sake of consoles. Something which translated into the PC ports, which were often enough just bad from a technical point of view.
Bringing the new Console generation up means the PC variants can be produced and developed with a higher base quality too.
Good news for all of us.
That's the fascinating thing about console gamers. For around 6/7 years they'll spread the narrative that performance isn't that important and the human eye can only see 30 fps and other nonsense. And then, for some reason, they contradict themselves by getting excited for new consoles offering better performance. Suddenly upgrades matter, performance matters, framerates matter. For a bit. Then back to denial for 7 more years. It's an amazing psychological phenomenon.
@@2nd_Directorate Ain't tech neat
@@randylahey2398 yeah unfortunately some people don't get their facts straight. Approximately 24 frames a second is a minimum for humans to perceive motion without it being "janky". Huge difference. The human eye does not perceive in "fps" since it is a chemical reaction, but there is diminishing returns on fps to so in some titles aiming for 60 with higher visual fidelity (aka graphics) is more logical then aiming for 133 fps.. on more competitive titles a high fps is a matter of win or lose
I'm pretty sure the new consoles are going to be taking advantage of amd's New image sharpening technology
RIS is just a shader, not a hardware feature. It has nothing to do with the consoles themselves; even Nvidia hardware can (and does) run it.
@Attack of the Pixels the funny thing is isn't ray tracing only exclusive to nvida cards I could have sworn AMD doesn't have any ray tracing cards out. So how will they implement ray tracing if AMD doesn't have ray tracing?
that doesn't make any sense. RIS is not a "reaction" to ray-tracing, the two are totally unrelated. "No reason to sell ice cream on tuesdays unless the bus runs at 11:00." ????
@@taylortripp8598 ray-tracing is not an nvidia-exclusive technology. anyone can do ray-tracing on CPUs, GPUs, or both; ray-tracing has been used since the 1970s. Nvidia is the only company currently shipping hardware with specific hardware acceleration for ray-tracing, but they are neither the only nor the first company to have done so. AMD's Lisa Su has already stated that "ray-tracing is a next-generation thing" for Radeon, so it's likely that the Navi GPUs in the PS5 and Xbox Scarlett will be based on said "next-generation" Radeons.
@@azazelleblack who are you replying to?
Oh man please reboot motorstorm on ps5 native 4K/60fps HDR and Dolby atmos it might look like that first CGI trailer of the game maybe add ray tracing with real time reflection the mud stages would look amazing throw in VR support for psvr2.
I can respect the dream, but if we’re remastering racing games, it’s gotta be Jet Moto, from PS1 era. Jet Moto 2 ran like garbage but it was pure cool, man. Hover bike racing at crazy speeds, plus an electromagnetic grappling hook that allows you to make hairpin turns. It was wild, man.
Yea Jet Moto was amazing they need to bring that back and wipeout!
Even If they don’t reboot it, I would be satisfied with a 4K remaster with vr support or ray tracing added.
SC174 I mean, yeah, I like the *idea* of VR motorstorm or Jet Moto 2, but... then I think about being in a vehicle with so much speed and such sharp turns in VR and I puke in my mouth a little.
Sony should reassemble Evolution Studios.
Pretty impressive that RAW performance will roughly be that big of a jump.
Once you factor in optimisation that is native to console development, then it'll be even better that what was shown here.
Next gen consoles are going to be crazy.
The extra optimization is only about ~10%, people really overestimate it.
@@keithbrown2711 no it's not. Just look at nvidia shield vs Nintendo Switch comparisons. Nvidia shield is so much worse at running games than Nintendo Switch despite having the same internals
@World traveler PH yes it is. It's a simple observation. Both have the same internals but the dedicated game console performs much better. Of course that's due to optimization on the console manufacturers part and the game developers part
Edit: that also reminds me of the kickstarter campaign for a beefy handheld device. You could test them out at gamescom and they ran like crap. Worse than Nintendo Switch despite having much higher specs
@World traveler PH what does the release date have to do with anything. They both have the same internals and yet Switch can run games much better. That was the only point i was trying to make since Keith Brown claimed it was only ~10%
@@teehundeart Nintendo switch vs shield is a separate case, it is ARM based hardware and the switch games are totally different, made especially for it. There is no way to run the same version of a game on shield and switch to make this comparison. Now, make a comparison between a radeon HD 7870 with a PS4, where you can get very close to the version that is running on the console, the performance will not be much different and both gpus are very similar, so the optimization is not great nowadays. You can make this comparison with all consoles of this generation and the result will be the same, very close to its counterpart found in Pc. This is because everyone is x86 based, not as before where each console had a different architecture, running versions made exclusively for them, such as the switch.
I’m deliberately playing ONLY on the current gen consoles instead of my PC until PS5/Scarlett release so I can get that mind blown feeling I got when I went from Megadrive to PS1!
Well that's just sad.
I remember the first time I played in HD and it absolutely blew my mind. Almost as much as the first time I watched a documentary in HD. And then I bought my Xbox One X when Red Dead Redemption 2 came out and it just blew my mind again. Not as much as 480 to 1080 but it still blew my mind.
@@CompetitionChris My mind blowing moment was my first time playing overwatch on my pc with a 144hz 1440p gsync monitor. Absolutely blew my fucking mind.
Thanks Rich. Seeing a possible tangible comparison between current and next gen consoles has me more excited for next year.
What do you mean
@@HazelwoodBoy250 Rich's tests in this video give me an idea of what performance increaes we can expect given comparable hardware.
@@lucasl3657 This generation was a sleeper. I knew these next gen consoles were going to be special ever since first gen ryzen launched.
Important to remember though, the simulated ps5/next gen xbox doesn't have console level hardware optimization like the ps4/pro and x1/x1x do. So if anything the generational improvement may even be considerably more than we see in this comparison. Exciting. 😁👍
Interesting video with kind of a weird conclusion... 1080p not worth the bother because it leaves a lot of GPU power on the table? Sure, if you're running games from this gen. If you up the visual details (i.e. more complex shaders, some RT effects etc) in games, 1080p is definitely back on the table. There's always quite a few thing other than resolution you could use that extra GPU power for, after all.
I think we'll see a lot more games running at stable 60FPS around 1440p next gen, but I wouldn't be surprised if many games still produced the odd 1080p frame every now and then. The more "cinematic" games will still target 30 FPS and perhaps favor higher resolution if they can, but my guess is that the extra GPU power will mostly be used for nicer effects, because most people can't tell a 1440p image with good upscaling from native 4K.
It's going to be very interesting to see what kinds of graphical improvements we'll see. I already use a 144hz screen and it's amazing. I think console players with high refresh rate TV's will find out that high framerates makes a game feel a lot better.
Next gen will be very interesting !
I just want to say, your analysis and comparisons are always stunning to watch, the way you handle benchmarks and draw conclusions in an educated manner is just...amazing in its own right.
consoles have better optimization and this means that 1080p 120/1440p 90/4k 60 at high settings instead of medium will be very possible in AAA titles at least 3-4 years into the console's life cycle, specially from 1st party devs.
4:15 Disgusted Richard
"Man, it's awful"
Richard; late 2019
He's just disgusted the gains aren't as big as he hoped:
CPU: x2.2 to x6.7 (x3 ?)
GPU: +82% to +520% (+200% ?)
Memory: x1.5 to x2.5 (x2 ?)
Storage: x1.6 to x6 (x3 ?)
Overall: Decent x3 Performance uplift over the PS4 Pro/Xbox One X. Where the PS4 Pro was roughly x2 faster than the PS4, and the Xbox One X was roughly x4 faster than the Xbox One. This makes the Total Performance Uplift from an Xbox One/PS4 to a PS5/Xbox V somewhere around x6-x12 factor, or roughly x8.
Leaked/Rumoured PS5 and Xbox V details:
3.2GHz Zen2 8core/16thread
1.6GHz Navi 32-CU
32GB GDDR6 Shared RAM
1TB (TLC-3D NAND) Sata-SSD
Q3 2020
USD $499
@@ekinteko because Navi sucks comparing to Maxwell/Pascal/Turing
more gains would produce bigger games (GB wise)
@@Zero11s nah
One thing you have to remember, Rich, is that the CPU limits placed on games this generation hasn't helped anyone out at all. Think about how much they squeezed out the Jaguars with unbelievable optimisations. Now apply those optimisations to a MUCH more powerful and much higher clocked processor. There's a reason why they're talking software RT imo.
the AMD that provided the tech for current consoles was in a very different place than the current AMD is. Very excited for what the new consoles could bring
That's why I think next gen is just not big leap.. its giant Leap! When Ps4 and XB1 released AMD had shitty gpu and not so good gpu.. but Now Amd has made best Cpu and good gpu.. So Next Gen is going to be Mind-blowing!
Brilliant, and very interesting results! Next gen will be a true generational leap?
Loadtimes, general quality of life and graphics will improve massively but I expect 30fps to continue as the target for the big publishers (argh). The generational leap feels like it will be largely for those of us into console VR and I hope MS gets into it, those of us who grew up with 8bit home computers then the NES and those who are older than us, easily fall in love with PSVR or better and it's no wonder. It's where we gotta go to feel something truly new and refreshing.
@@Mamiya645 30fps on the next gen will no doubt produce some incredible visuals.. Be nice if 60fps was the base framerate ;)
Yes. The CPUs will enable far more game simulation to be done at any given time. That means, if the developer so pleases, more interactive worlds. It also means more actors (NPCS) present as well. More precise physics calculations too. The GPUs are coming with Radeon's hardware based raytracing (likely a combination of fixed function hardware and software features as per AMD's documentation).
This combined with both consoles seemingly having guaranteed SSDs in them means at the very LEAST there will be faster loading and fewer streaming based stutters in games.
No. Lol
for cpu and ssd yes
not for gpu ):
Im happy with double the performance of X. If x is hitting loads at 4k 30 that translates to 4k 60 locked.. Im more than happy with that.
Games that have 4k 60 now will have more bells and whistles and extra polish.
Cant wait.
@@happygofishing7590 Its like the Ram price fixing of gaming GPUs.
@@happygofishing7590 You can find 5700xt on sale for decent price, but if you can wait then new gpu will be out in next year both from nVidia with ampere and amd rdna 2.0
@@happygofishing7590 it will go down. RTX 3XX series will launch next year and probably RDNA 2 will follow. Consoles will be the mid to high GPU standard and will be equal to RTX 3X70 maximal or 3060 minimum.
NickTheGeek
It’s 2x GPU performance and 4x CPU performance I believe. Very nice upgrade. Especially the CPU.
@@happygofishing7590 You can get 4k able cards at the 500$ point and sometimes lower used .. tweak some settings and boom! 4k 60.
Developers did an amazing job with jaguar cpu and HDD
Sad that you forget about The Evil Within 2. This game runs on Xbox One X with fixed1800p and with ability to play with unlocked framerates. Even if it most of the times under 30 fps line.
One thing is for sure, Next gen is going to be insane!
I dont see that happening , in the contrary most games are mostly gonna be online or pvp with very minimal story driven games , and even those are gonna be shorter , not to mention everything is gonna be designed around game streaming . Gaming as we know it will soon die out
@@Yamato-t3d except next gen is not about streaming, i am 100% against streaming games, its trash. these next gen consoles are the classic console launches that we know and love.
as for games, we will have to wait and see, but i for one can't wait to play dying light 2 and doom eternal on PS5! Not to mention maybe a spider man 2 and another killzone.
@@Yamato-t3d the fact that data caps are still rampant among providers in the US proves you wrong just on principle. Even if these consoles were pure streaming consoles (they arent anything resembling that, and have been repeatedly shown to not be) sony and microsoft would have to be utterly blind to see how much of a colossal failure that would be both commercially and internally.
Next gen already here on pc actually better than what the next gen consoles will be next yeAr
Not gonna happen.
DigitalFoundry uploads a new Navi/Next gen video
“Here we go again”
Ah, shit. Here we go again.
Right admiral kizaru
Honestly, I'm not too worried about people being unimpressed by the leap from PS4Pro/One X. There are millions more base PS4s and Xbox Ones out there. The leap from 2013 hardware to what's coming in 2020 is going to be massive. Man, it feels good to get a generation where the GPU and CPU are getting at least 2x better than previous. The last time we had as big a CPU leap was from PS2/XB to PS3/360.
RicochetForce are you really this ignorant ? The jump from The PS3/Xbox 360 to Jaguar was at least 2x better. Jaguar was weak compared to modern CPUs but was far beyond the 360
@@chalpua8802 No, the Jaguar was considered a weak CPU even back then. It was a pathetic, middling step forward after nearly a decade. So much so that even ancient CPUs from that era outdo them. It's part and parcel why PC gaming has been so affordable: The consoles were hideously underpowered this gen. The normal console CPU/GPU leap is 5-8x, and we're seeing that leap from base to their next gen successors.
RicochetForce it was about a 5-7x GPU jump from 360 to PS4. The CPU was still faster than the ps3. Its weak compared to a high end 2008 chip which is pathetic. It’s not a good CPU at all but it’s still superior to the previous gen by a good bit.
This next gen is going to be amazing though. Probably one of the largest jumps in a long time.
@@chalpua8802 No, the Jaguar was also weak even going from the PS3's CELL architecture. It was something along the lines of a 100% increase, maybe slightly more but that was it. It was pathetic. Even low end shit like i3s from that era are better.
Microsot and Sony picked the Jaguar because of one reason only: Cost. They were dirt cheap and both companies were price shy after the 7-8 years of loss leader consoles.
RicochetForce Jaguar was ALL AMD had available. Sony and Microsoft didn’t want to build exclusive expensive hardware. Jaguar is an X86 CPU which alone makes it easier to code for and it’s faster than the previous gen by at least 2x. Yes it’s weak compared to even FX processors which sucked.
Jaguar sucks but it was what was available at the time.
The GPU in the consoles were significantly better than the previous at around 5-6x. So it was still a large jump. The processors just couldn’t hit 60fps.
This gen will be one of the best like you said though. It’s going to be insane
The generation leap seems small because of these mid-gen updated consoles, otherwise, it's pretty huge!
It depends on how you look at it, the gpu leap is likely to be small and I suspect in the ball park of the RX5700 which is still solid but not massive over what the Xbox One X does already.
The real leap is the cpu and SSD as that is a massive leap over what consoles have now and will allow developers to do things they just can't do at the moment, that for me is the real game changer, now the gpu or ray tracing.
GPU's on PC will be getting even bigger perf boost mid next year or before
Paul Aiello Is the Gonzalo 1.8 GHZ 8-Core CPU for next gen fast? I thought ii would be like this:
Much Better GPU PERFORMANCE
Decent better CPU PERFORMANCE
Than current gen
@@paul1979uk2000 I mean, its just under a 2X performance at native 4K, not an upscaled 4K. That is huge considering the ps4 barely played games at native 1440p on settings that varied from low to high, which PC would still have a very high and Ultra(Max) setting above that. Now its going to be Very High settings 1440p60fps in bigger and more detailed worlds with an SSD
@@imo098765 "Now it's going to be Very High settings 1440p60fps" It's most likely going to just be high settings, there isn't much visual difference between High and Very High anyways. PS4 plays games mostly run at medium and low especially for most of the demanding games.
DF should be awarded for their thoroughly researched videos and flawless presentation. There is so much half baked content out there esp. regarding current gen consoles, I'm delighted that there are people who put in that much work.
Hopefully PS5/Scarlet spell the end for the 30FPS standard in console games, graphics have been too much of a focus to the detriment of gameplay.
Yeah? I never see consoles making 60fps standard. It would mean nerfing the consoles gfx even more in it's late stages to keep that 60 as GFX advance, particularly with that added RTX since it's all the hype rn.
Games may run 60fps in 2021 on console, but can we expect a consoles hardware to compete with newer tech in 2025 running new games with better hardware? I don't see the console community taking that well. I do like seeing the option for framerate optimization on my PS4 Pro, especially on games online though the games with that function are few and far between.
sony and microsoft can promise the consumer 7+years of 30fps 4k AAA gaming 60fps not possible not even with the coming rtx 3080.....and no one wants to play at 1080p on a big TV (terrible english:)
@@HassanMohamoud-lg2xw 4k 60 is doable on a near 5 year old 1080ti, tf you on about?
Knocking it out of the park again guys! Thanks for the insights! So exciting.
Digital Foundry. The only good thing from eurogamer these days. ❤
Shouldn’t it be how the games play. Gameplay first, graphics second.
Love Digital Foundry and their hard work.
Not playing at 30fps adds to game play immersion though.
gameplay first = 60 fps
Pothitos Kourtis absolutely, “gameplay matters” and “60fps don’t matter” are mutually exclusive
Really excited because it means more yield for the PC games too!
This is one of the reasons I get excited for next gen. Consoles dictate the pace of graphics evolution these days, not PC. so if we get a powerful next gen specs then it means nothing but good things for the PC too.
finally, extra memory over 16GB won't be wasted when next gen consoles come
MrBurtbackerack then people will cry and whine their GPUs can’t run games at 60fps anymore.
@@allansh828 Yea only few games like Star Citizen shows how amazing games could look if they were solely focused on PC. That game looks gens ahead of any game out right now... The level of detail is absolutely insane.
console actually dictates gaming. so long live PS
Seen you talk about this on Friday in London EGX was a pleasure thanks guys
Also, GDDR6 will contribute very well in the next-gen consoles i believe, especially with the super fast SSD's.. and with all of that, 4K will be the new 1080p and hopefully 60 FPS will be the new 30 thanks to the huge jump in CPU power .
30 fps will still be common and king in consoles. Framerate is a developer choice. If a developer is overambitious and trying to run high quality assets, effects, simulation, etc... at the same time and do NOT want to compromise on any of it? You're going to get a 30fps game. And if people can't tell the difference between 30 fps and 60fps (a lot of casual gamers cannot) well, there you go.
@@RicochetForce i'm not against this policy, i'm a graphics guy myself and i'm OK with stable 30 FPS games specially with great motion blur all the way .. but what i was trying to say is that with all of this power at your disposal, 60 FPS games will be more common if not the standard when there is all of this headroom available, still, Targeting 30 FPS can produce spectacular results technically speaking but imagine having great looking games with no visual compromises to consider alongside 60 FPS targets, i think that is pretty doable in the next generation consoles . Doom 2016 looked awesome on consoles this gen despite the fact that it was targeting a very stable 60 FPS even on base machines and all of that was done on a very weak CPU . So in the end it all depends on how much effort developers put in the process of making of their games .
@@RicochetForce Even 90 year old can tell the difference between 30 fps & 60 fps.
@@xplayndo5890 Oh, if you were simply expressing that this higher average level of performance in the consoles relative to contemporary PC hardware will make it easier for developers to hit (and maintain) 60fps, I agree. The absolute dogshit Jaguar meant that for developers to hit 60 they'd have to sacrifice a lot, more than most were comfortable with. But still it does depend on, as you said, how much work they're willing to put in to optimize their game and hit their render target. That means deep, engine level tweaks, more aggressive frustrum culling, better asset decompression and streaming, the works. For a lot of devs they simply don't have the time or money to dig down that deep.
@@xplayndo5890 the fuck...motion blur ruins every game
Outstanding video. Would love to see Star Citizen running on the predicted next gen hardware equivalent.
You are still comparing navi gen 1 with the xbox one x and ps4 pro. PS5 and Xbox Scarlett will use Navi gen 2 (better IPC, better instruction sets) and will use 7nm+ EUV lithography. A console with 50-60 compute units is not out of the question.
Maybe EUV, just to hold the 1800mhz boost clocks; but they would stick with a gpu around 40cu for improved power consumption and thermals.
if you actually run cinebench r15 on a ps4, you will get a multicore score of about 350 and single score of about 45. so these projections are definitely spot on. zen 2 is such a huge deal for next gen.
I did indeed find this interesting. I didn’t understand a single word, but it was interesting nonetheless.
On top this is quite some beautiful hardware you put together. Looking forward to the PS5.
The SSD will allow for streaming environments to be more dense - you could raise the LOD levels by an order of magnitude. If you can load something fast enough from storage and your resource management is smart? you can free up graphics memory of things that would normally have to be more persistent given the size of the data. This essentially means that more of the memory can be dedicated to what's actually visible knowing that the SSD will deliver on time.
It is unfortunate that SSD doesn't fix everything.
SSD will not be used for LOD since it is too slow for that. System RAM could be used as an extension of GPU RAM. SSD loading strategy will be utilized for getting rid of loading screens, since as you approach the end of the level, while still playing, the SSD cache-in could already kick in.
After seeing how star citizen performs on an SSD vs HDD, I think you are right
What im more exited about is that game studios will start utilizing the multi/hyperthereading better for game ports
60fps NEEDS to be a minimum benchmark for both of these next gen machines. We're now at a point where channels like this and nx gamer have been showing console gamers what they've been missing with those anemic jaguar cores, and the public, specifically the gaming public, knows it now more than ever. Pamdoras box has been opened. There's no closing it now.
60fps is a developer choice. You can make a 60 fps game on damn near ANY hardware. What's happening is that developers, publishers, and marketing departments are finding that you can sell games far more easily if their videos and screenshots have a ton of bells and whistles. And the only way to use those added effects is to increase the amount of time between rendered (and output) frames. Hence 30fps games.
Notice how far developers of simpler games hit 60fps+ no problem? Since they're not throwing everything + the kitchen sink worth of effects into their game at any given time the game can easily pump out new frames.
@@RicochetForce Because the CPUs in the current hardware just aren't powerful enough to handle fidelity and performance. You're supporting my point.
@@shreder75 They will NEVER be powerful enough to handle "fidelity and performance" cause every new game is always made to function with best possible settings. All new games are always made with fidelity being #1 performance being #2. So it's up to the developers if their games hit 60 FPS on a console. Console could have a fucking 2080 Ti and it might still be below 60 FPS if the developers choose. It's not the console or the hardware that dedicates FPS, it's the developer. There have been instances where games COULD easily have hit 60 FPS on the PlayStation 4, but the developers PURPOSELY capped it at 30 FPS to reduce "stutter"
@@ghostthough7874 if a game hits 60, there IS no stutter. If there is stutter, it's because the game is going beyond the hardware or it's a poorly made game. With zen architecture, devs will finally be able to balance fidelity and performance. Look at some modern games. God or war, hzd, rdr2 on the x. The games are already gorgeous and hitting near 4k res, but the crap cpu doesn't allow for 60 fps at those graphics settings.
@@shreder75 This generation we will see.
Kabini is fine if you don't do too much with it, I bought a Thin client that has a GX-420ca in it which is the embedded version of the Athlon 5350. Old games, and music and videos suit it just fine. But it's definitely not a gaming system. But for an HTPC it's pretty great.
Love stuff like this, thanks Richard ! I've always felt that the end result of a true next generational leap would be that we could play something like Horizon Zero Dawn at proper full 4K while also having the game run at 60 fps ... just as a minimum goal. Obviously there would have to be some leftover power beyond that to account for shader upgrades , possible SSD improvements coupled with having adequate VRAM at adequate bandwidth to create a stutter free experience with some next gen tech. Hypothetical real wold comparison PC builds like this are cool because I feel they actually do give us a pretty good idea of what to expect with actual games. It really looks like my personal expected target will be met with the hardware choices being made here , any game that can run at 30 FPS/1440p (or 1440p+checkerboarding) should be able to muster 60 FPS /2160p and based on your benchmarks , I'd wager even a modern "next gen" game engine will probably manage 1440p/60fps without too much trouble. At least for those first couple of years. The remaining wild card is still ray tracing.... , Cerny recently admitted there's some kind of hardware level solution perhaps even included right on what is sure to be a custom built APU... so just what is it ? how powerful is it compared to Nvidias RT cores ? based on the pricing of RTX cards and the resulting performance hit , what can we really expect there ? I'm just assuming it'll be some kind of assist to "fake it" , like a checkerboarding version of ray tracing. Somehow render the effect for only 1 thing (maybe just 1 type of shadow even ?) with a minimal number of rays cast from only some light sources at a fairly low resolution and then some kind of post processing cleans it up at a minimal performance cost. I just really want to see a return to PS2 level framerates where it felt like most games generally ran pretty fast and now we can expect 1440+ resolutions at a minimum coupled with high frame rates... after so long I just don't want to see a game hampered with sub 30 fps just to turn on fancier shadows and really wonder what level of compromise AMD has come up with to make this expensive new RT tech work. That video will probably have to wait until we have a better idea of just WHAT it is right?
Minimum goal my ass. Maybe if they keep the graphics identical at that resolution and framerate
@@DrJones20 That was my implied reasoning yes, the exact same current gen game running at full 4K and 60 fps. Kind of like How last of Us went from 720p/30 to 1080p/60 when it was ported from PS3 to PS4.
People are looking at the power of the new consoles, I’m looking at the power of the new cards being released by nvidia and amd during the time of the new consoles. Since the fact will be that the consoles will include a low - mid range next gen gpu. Can’t wait to see what the high end - enthusiast offerings are for us pc gamers.
Tasso doesn’t really matter when there’s no titles to exploit that power. AAA games are focused on the big money. IE console ports.
Faris Ali meh I have a 4K monitor, and it makes those *console ports* look gorgeous, sure they don’t have any special pc only effects and lighting but not even the current 2080ti can comfortably run recent AAA games at 4K max 60+. So I’m pretty hyped so see what the new generation cards will offer.
Tasso yeah that’s interesting. I think it’s just going to be a more powerful 2080TI where it can comfortably run high FPS 4K HDR Raytracing without a sweat
Transistor Jump what ever makes u sleep at night, the consoles coming out in December 2020 are already using 3 year old CPU’s (at the time of launch) the ryen 2nd gen, and gpu are typically low-mid range amd offerings.
Transistor Jump ur brain isn’t really functioning properly... I said it will be 3 years at the time of the consoles release...
I didn't hear power draw mentioned at all. I'd assume they want their maximum power draw from the wall to not exceed 300-315 watts. How does that factor into your theories?
It could go to 400 W peak..
They didn't consider it due to them not considering that they go for looks over cooling and in every case for dev kits they are clocked higher than launch hardware, we also dunno what the price will be for them
@@denan1 It will not consume 400 Watt. It´s a console. The console will not exceed 250 watts which already seems to be highly over anything I would see as reasonable noise wise (despite whatever excellent cooling system they might have designed).
400 Watt is a crazy amount of heat for such small devices.
@@Koeras16 I've read PS4 Pro peaks at 315, which is what I drew my number from. Xbox One X I have heard is lower, like the 240 range. I think its an important metric that DigitalFoundry seems to completely ignore, so I'd like to see them start including it.
@@Motleyguts The pro is also based on two ps4 gpu dies and is everything but efficient in it´s design. Though it´s a good point. Didn´t even know that it consumed that much. Wonder if they used a vapor chamber.
it doesn't matter what the specs are with next gen consoles, give it few months and developers will find a way to release their games at 1080p with wabbly 30fps.
I hope the new consoles won't be having a gloss finish and touch buttons again.
That’s your opinion
@@BrownOpsLeak why state the obvious?
The latest consoles don't so hope that continues. My Xbox one is pretty scratched and I take good care of it, the glossy part is just so susceptible.
Just play on stadia
@@phoenixzappa7366 good joke
I expect in the worst case scenario a gpu equating to a gtx 1080 and at best a gpu like a gtx 1080ti with raytracing and gddr6...incredible improvements also in the storage things, backward compatibility and a rebuilt software development..
Well, the future is interesting as always. But I hope more and more games use Vulkan, too.
Same. Vulkan might be one of the best out there right now.
Cool shit. I hope next-gen we finally get 60 fps games on consoles = easier to run at high fps on PC.
More excited about the ssd tbh. Finally games can be programmed to use all that raw speed.
Hopefully there’s still the ability to expand storage because unless it’s 2TB (even with the modular game downloads), we’ll have a problem
Mannnnn i cant wait to get my hands on two pci-e 4.0 Nvme ssd-s
@@KizaruB Yeah hopefully.
Since it' a custom SSD build directly connected to the motherboard, it's possible that there won't be expandable storages. If there is, it'll probably be a "Sony only" accessory for the console due to how they design the internal hardware. So you could be looking at 100-200 USD for a new 1 TB expandable SSD storage. However, I am 100% confident there will only be 1 TB of SSD storage in the console at launch.
@@ghostthough7874 Yeah probably. Gotta keep the cost down. I hope it's expandable or the PS5 has some kind of fast dedicated port for expandable storage.
I think the SSD and how its utilised is gonna be the secret sauce in the next gen consoles. I doubt it will be used in the same manner as a traditional SSD like I used in my current pc but may act more like a buffer between the HDD and the rest of the hardware for extremely fast loading and rendering. Games specificly developed for the next gen may utilise some new tricks using the combination to an advantage we haven't seen before to get better looking games from less powerful hardware. I doubt it will be 8k mind you, even 4k 60 is wishful thinking outside of a game like Forza or Gran Turismo. 4k 30 is what we are likely to see with fast load times, better physics, Ai, shadows, bloom, lighting etc, etc. Personally where red dead, resident evil, and God of war are at just now on ps4 pro I am satisfied with how they look and play already, everything beyond this point is a bonus.
Love this channel❤❤ amazing content like no other
The only problem with these comparisons is that once the baseline performance is much higher, how developers will use that power will change. Right now games have to run on a mobile processor with a GPU that is several generations old with some newer generation features. If you have power beyond that in a PC, you are just playing a game made priamirly for that weaker platform with extra bells and whistles. I think that the jump in visuals that we see should he greater than just a PS4 game with the graphics set to max.
I highly doubt that CPU will be 3.2GHz. It will probably be something like 2.4Ghz or 2.6GHz. They have to keep power consumption low on console specially when it is an APU with CPU shared with GPU. They need most of the power for GPU clocks. However, even at 2.6Ghz it should be ~4 times faster than PS4 Pro CPU in multi-cores performance
maroom1 exactly what I was going to say. It will run hot to the point of random shut downs.
I highly doubt that a Zen 2 CPU won't be able to hit 3.2GHz.
maroom1 No APU for next gen, CPU and GPU will be separate like PS4/360 generation.
kt cool A Zen 2 CPU can easily hit it, just not while being used in a console
3.2 on 7nm is efficient, your looking at about 30 to 40 watts maximum and its below all base Ryzen 2 clock speeds. The 3700 is already a 65 watt tdp part and the base clock is not even close to that low. Both the CPU and the GPU actually have elements in them beyond the current architecture. There is also a rumor of double the threads on the CPU which would be insane.
Really interesting tests. Next gen is looking promising!
Well honestly, The difference from old gen AMD cpu vs Zen2 is more like 100%+ In every aspect.
One is a FULL FLEDGED desktop cpu and the other a notebook 2008 cpu..
@@denan1 when you put it that way it is not as impressive
No.
The measurable difference, as shown in the video is closer to 450%
@@WinterCharmVT That is without running optimized software also... Zen 2 has double the FP bandwidth of even Zen1.... these demos almost certainly don't tap any of that.
Zen3 will be even better with the 8cores CCXs and the 32MB unified cache
I have my PS5 here at home already! Well ok, not really, but my Ryzon 7 3700x, plus an RX 5900, matching, plus already beating it in some areas. All upgrade paths open as well.
Next Generation will truly be a outstanding time for gaming both with the Xbox Scarlett and PS5
This is a pretty nice video. Good for not mentioning the PC gaming side here, cause as we all know, the actual performance and problems matter highly, just think of Windows updates, graphics DRIVERS, all this crap that hinders and changes performance pretty often on PC. Not even talking about the lack of optimization on the PC-ports. All results in often times having really crappy performance on the PC, meanwhile many of us already enjoy the presented HW of this video....what we can all gain once the new generation of consoles became standard, is that developers will no longer need to consider the current limitations while designing the games. PC is never the main port for games, obviously, so it was always standard - sadly - that you had to buy 2-3x the hardware on the PC-side to compensate for the crappy PC-code. There are only a handful of exceptions where they really treat PC version separately and optimize it soon after release, not 2 years after console release
Since 4K has already been marketed to consumers with the Pro and X models, I think Sony and Microsoft should market these consoles as the 60fps and more consoles.
They are.
Man not gonna lie but XBOX ONE X is delivering that 4k res.
@@AvieeNash It's really not, at lot of big games this year run quite a bit below 4k. At least 60>4k
@@AvieeNash not on all games.
@@postscriptum8142 yeahh 80 to 90 percent 4k on some games but that doesn't make whole lot of difference on a 4k oled like litrelly....
Enjoyed Richard and John’s session at EGX covering this.
I did a TEST with my 3900x and made it a 8 Core 16 Thread and let ran it Cinebench R15.
The Results:
8/16 @ 3.0 Ghz takes 47 Watts -> 1524 Points
8/16 @ 2.5 ghz takes 43 Watts -> 1283 Points
For references my old 1700 @ Stock with 3.2 Ghz had 1391 Points.
The PS4 Pro with 7 Cores (Ps4 has 8 Cores but only lets you use 7 Cores):
8 Core @ 2.1 Ghz -> 343 Points.
Factoring in the reserved resources is probably going to skew the comparison, as the upcoming consoles will also have some resources reserved for the OS - likely one core and a small portion of the RAM, as per previous consoles.
@@SteelSkin667 Yeah. I know it is not 100 % accurate because of the 64 Mb L3 Cache and other factors.
I want to see massive improvement in game physics and complex game worlds/level design.
jaguar cpu is that why my ps4 fan sounds like a jet engine, I swear when i put on tomb raider the fan blew so hard the console hovered in the air
XD
Lol. Sometimes Xbox One's fan does go loud.
@@killertruth186 Not as loud as the gen 1 or 2 ps4 though. The pro is a little better
No. Cat cores were designed for portables. 8 of them at 2GHz do not use much power at all.
@@BigNazty8732 True.
It's gonna be interesting for console owners to deal with updates, game updates, data management (transfer games between external and internal storage), presumably different game settings targeting high refresh displays, 4K displays, or some kind of middleground setting. When this is what consoles has become. PCs actually seem easier to work with. Especially since game updates happen in the background when you use the computer for other tasks.
It was pretty impressive what these consoles could pull off in the first place
30 fps in most of the games so nothing impressive and dont get me started on the hideous use of motion blur depth of field and strong AA to deliver some muddy results.
Good video 👍 Richard! Keep testing that next gen setup.
God another year can’t come fast enough.
i still have some business this year, i want time to move slower.....
RODRIGO FILHO Make that $ while you can everything is slowing down.
Then your doctor says that you have 3 months to live.
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Great video, i loved the effort to get things close to what the rumors are speculating. But im still really bugged by the fact that the SSD that you say is a Nvme ssd is in fact a SATA m.2 offering only 1/4th the read and write speeds of even a gen3 Nvme, and less than 1/6th the speed of a gen4 Nvme (in the new consoles) these test werent really testing anything to do with loading so its not a huge deal, but an oversight nonetheless. Unless the b-roll of that asus board was incorrect
The One X would have a performance advantage over Pro if the devs would stop doing 4K which the console cannot handle. The console can do 4K, but is 4K worth it if the performance sucks and the textures are still poor?
Borsalino Kizaru textures are typically high but when zoomed in they lose fidelity.
X is massively bottlenecked by the CPU. Ms didn't learn from Sony's mistakes and tried to push both 4K, better fps and promised new exclusives, ultimately failing on all fronts
Richard, please remember about significant overhead of directx on PC comparing to consoles, which doesn't have one. Does Vulkan help with this anyhow?
That was a SATA 3 drive, not nvme.
Great video, I have been waiting for this for ages!!!
I have a 2080 ti rig and ps4 Pro and one x and I have been debating if I want to grab a ps5...
This has helped me decide that :)
Hell yeah ill get a new ps!
Your 2080ti is far more powerful than the ps5, so I'd say hold off on getting the ps5 until a must have exclusive releases for it.
@@awesome9174 agree, as long as the his Ps4's are running the must have he wants well enough. Too bad Nvidia are such poor mannered w*nkers they burn bridges with every console partnership. [even nintendo would bail if they could, they are very angry with nvidia over the tegra fault that made first gen switch hard hackable].
I have a dumb console gamer question. By the time ps5 or xbox 2 come out, won't the hardware in them be current existing PC hardware ? Like, aren't console gamers not realizing that "Next gen" consoles will be more along the lines of what we already see in high end...
Idk it's a $1000+ build.
Not exactly, they could possibly have custom elements
No, not necessarily. For example it's been confirmed that the ps5 will have a zen 2 cpu, but AMD is on track to have a zen 3 cpu released by the time the ps5 comes out.
I think most console users who are tuned into the tech world are more than aware of that - the days of consoles offering a huge technological leap beyond what we thought was possible are long gone. However, even though next gen consoles will effectively be equivalent to the PCs of the here and now, the gains will be massive going forward.
The current gen consoles launched with what were effectively mid-range GPUs at the time, but they were often bottlenecked by the poor Jaguar CPUs. This really limited what devs were able to do both in terms of holding frame rate targets, as well as actual in-game simulation tasks. Still, many studios have been able to do fantastic things with these machines, even with the aforementioned limitations.
Now, imagine the baseline of games going forward being built with PC-level GPUs of today, BUT with actual modern CPU technology. Combine that with low-level access to a solid state drive, and the floor for what developers are going to be able to achieve is going to rise *dramatically*. We'll have good GPUs that aren't being limited by weak CPUs, which means that many devs are going to have an easier time hitting and maintaining performance targets, as well as being able to be much more ambitious with the underlying design of their games. It doesn't really matter that consoles will inevitably be behind PCs (again, the days of consoles leading the pack in terms of tech are long gone), what matters is that the games will benefit from this fundamental shift in hardware focus.
@@Toa_Axis Thanks for the explanation dude. Yea, I try to pay attention to PC culture. I have always wanted to start gaming on a nice system, but have always been limited by time and money. I watch Linus media and Digital Foundry all day. It just struck me when the marketing for the new xbox is "Resolutipn and FPS like we've never seen before".
I'm like " EXAGGERATED, TELL THE TRUTH"
I hope we can get a can that does 1080p/120fps, 1440p/60fps and 4k/60fps/30fps.
So, a $1150 PC build if you don't add the UHD Drive. Interesting!
1000 $ PS4 and 1200$ Xbox 😂 tooo much for a Console
@@AvieeNash There is a reason why it isn't out yet, 7nm will be much cheaper next year also they can put worse cpu cores in consoles since they will run at very low clocks.
Wht would you need a UHD in the first place in a pc? Sounds like with the x, you are just going to make up things to compare. I still laugh when I think about you using a blu ray drive and a network card to add to your pc price 😂 Since neither are needed.
Market price for those parts are way lower for console companies.
No. It's not that simple.
With all this power if they don’t prioritise frame rates I will lose my shit. 1080p60 should’ve been achieved and became the minimum last generation but didn’t happen due to weak cpus.
2:35 Well that‘s a SATA SSD ...
Considering the clock speeds on the CPUs being cut back from the desk top equivalent the results here do not surprise me. Impressive as hell and well tested.
I'm scared by how much PC performance requirements will go up.
RIP any gpu below a 1070 come 2020 tbh.
Elitist my poor gtx 1070 is on its last leg since there’s no ray tracing. I have to upgrade to a RTX.
@@pandassudsnshine4125 As a 2060 owner I wouldn't upgrade for rtx until the 3000 series comes out which should hopefully have performance improvements. RTX is not worth it right now if you're looking for performance that will actually last.
That’s not how requirements work for most devs. They recommend specs based on what’s most popular, which will be the GTX 1060 and RX 480 for years.
@@ReghalMihn the Xbox one x is like an amd 480. If Xbox 2 is suppose to be 4 times more powerful where do you think a PC GPU need to be to match that?
@@Elitist your right but with console helping push Ray tracing the time for it is next year.
I’m really interested in what PS5 can do with a PS VR Pro / VR 2 headset. Maybe higher rez with wider angle view at 90-120 FPS depending on graphical fidelity of the game. I haven’t tried PSVR but hear it’s a bit low Rez with limited FOV. Seems like Xbox is gonna wait til the 10th gen in 2028 or so for VR
This is great for gaming. I play on playstation and ps4 consoles being more powerful is great for pc gamers
Will be very interesting to see what the new consoles bring!
Not that I intend to get one but since they use Zen 2 cores this will really enable devs to do stuff the CPU in the old consoles couldn't handle and this is good for me as a PC gamer as well.
Theoretical performamce in the Xbox 360 CPU was higher than that of the One even ffs. So this will be a gigantic leap in performamce.
Developers optimize for consoles and if consoles get better parts its only win win for the master race
These are rather interesting projections. If Gonzalo's rumored 1.8 GHz clock is to be believed, it will probably be paired with the smaller 36 CU variant. That would keep thermals under control, and probably help whoever will manufacture the chips (TSMC?) increase yields as well, keeping costs down.
Maybe scarlet will have a 40 cu part, for all that we know this CUSTOM apu could be made on tsmc 7nm+
@@denan1 We'll have to see how it goes, so far it's all rumor and speculation anyways. If the new consoles are releasing for the holidays 2020, with TSMC's 7nm production lead times up to 6 months at the moment the chips will have to be finalized and ordered early next year, so there inevitably will be more leaks by then.
I never expected the PS5 to have 8c/16t really thought they were gonna go for 8c/8t.
Definitely not gonna come out at 399...
You really thought that? Dang..
Consoles are sold at a loss, atleast at launch, they make their profit on the games. Coming out at $399 is perfectly believable
@@Davidx_117 except the PS4 and Xbox one base model DIDN'T; they bucked that trend for breaking even or marginal profits
Davidx 117 not this gen. They made a slight profit actually.
Nah it's gonna be more like $499 or even more.
This content is amazing - Great episode!! DF at its best here 😀