My grandfather on my dad's side left with his brother to Canada he put on his papers when he arrived he would never return to Northern Ireland. So did his mother and 3 sisters but, they went to the US!
@Ligerpride No but it doesn't show civilians killing other civilians. The war was won in Munster and Dublin with a sympathetic public which I understand but a lot of innocent blood was shed particularly in Belfast which is ignored in most films made about the era.
@Ligerpride yes a civil war that had a greater death toll than the so called Anglo-Irish War and the number of deaths in Northern Ireland was relatively small despite the suppression of the Catholic minority
In 1921 the Catholic church had massive influence 'with Catholics' . There was no real foundation for the fears of Protestants in the North, it was used as usual as the Sectarian dogma of Unionists. The real reason was Economics, the South fell into a deep recession after 1921 and never recovered until the EU got involved. It was DeValeras 1937 Constitution that gave the Catholic church special status in Irish society. At the opening of the Northern parliament the King actually expressed that he wished to see Ireland reunited one day because it was a Minority on both sides that pushed their will on the majority.
I would disagree with your comments about the Church. We have seen right up to recently how the RC Church had a major hand in the running of the Republic. At least two political leaders have had to resign over the abuse scandal because the law was handed over to the Church to deal with it. When RTE was established the Bishop of Dublin demanded everything that was to be shown was to be cleared by him first. Then we have the laws brought in by the Government at the behest of the RC Church to ensure children in ‘mixed’ marriages were to be brought up as RC. It really was Rome Rule.
Both of you are talking nonsense. Protestants in Northern Ireland (70% of the population in 1921) didn't 'fear' a Republic of Ireland , they simply wanted no part of it. Why leave the second most successful country in the world (at that time) to be part of a backward, peasant society with very unenlightened social conventions and dominated by a church that you don't subscribe to? The idea of a Protestant 'bulwark' in that society is as absurd today as it was then - they'd simply have been treated in the same way Protestants were treated in the Irish Free State after 1921.
Well I would say that much has been said about a rather pointless civil war that was quite severe in the Free State, and a rather vicious one too. I would agree with you though that the adaptation to the newly formed Northern Ireland has generally been ignored in both video documentary and in literature, that is very true and you make a good point about that. In many ways it is now treated as the problem of the people living there whilst Dublin and London have washed their hands of the area.
I feel both anger and sorrow for the people of my homeland - oppressed, lied to and used by Westminster/the British Crown for their own ends. Partition should never have happened, we can't do much about the past, a place we love to dwell, but we can do something about the future - bring on a border poll and set our people free. 26 + 6 = 1.
The vast majority of people in what became Northern Ireland did not want to become part of an Irish Republic. In this documentary, the voice spoken by the English woman is, for the most part, surprisingly impartial. Unfortunately, at the end of the video they hand over to Irish Nationalist women and it becomes, all too predictably, biased in favour of the minority and against the majority.
If you exclude the majority of the population, then the minority you do include, becomes the majority. Fermanagh, never wanted to be included in Northern Ireland, they were only partitioned at the insistence of Carson. However, in a more recent plebiscite, Westminster was fine, ignoring the Northern Irish and Scottish vote, with regard to Brexit and only considered the overall UK vote, why, because it suited their purposes. - In 1798, Ulster Presbyterian organised and lead a nation wide uprising, so at that point, not all were happy with British rule. As to the inclusion of the 'nice' British women and the 'nasty' nationalists women, do you think the documentary producer had an agenda??? Our fellow country men and women have suffered over 400 years of physical, political and cultural oppression, why wouldn't they feel aggrieved at the British crown/state. Look, forget the past, let us make our way, as a single united nation, one people, with different cultures, under a flag that represents both our traditions.Adh mor ort agus slan.
Hi, @@WildBoreWoodWind. I'm sure you're aware that the majority of people in Northern Ireland prefer to stay in the UK rather than to join with the Republic of Ireland, and it's been that way since 1921 when Northern Ireland was founded - indeed, that was why it was founded. So, to suggest: "let us make our way, as a single united nation, one people, with different cultures" seems to me to be misty-eyed romanticism, as does your assertion that "Ulster Presbyterians organised and lead a nation wide uprising". It is true that the 1798 rebellion's proponents were indeed middle-class, liberal Belfast Presbyterians (allied with like-minded Dublin Anglicans and Catholics). However, only a small proportion of Presbyterians participated in the rebellion in Ulster and it was quickly put down. Since 1800, Ulster Presbyterians have overwhelmingly been supporters of the Union with Britain. As to Brexit: the question on the ballot paper was "should the UK leave the European Union". If any part of the UK doesn't wish to abide by the result then they are, of course, free to leave the UK by voting in an independence referendum. I don't know any Gaelic so I can't understand your last phrase but I'll wish you likewise.
One hundred years later, Unionists no longer hold a majority. Northern Ireland never had its own flag and never had a national anthem. It's as though everyone knew it was a temporary solution. And so it has proved.
I was talking to a woman who seen the English king come to Belfast. She said she was on the crumlin road Protestant on one side and Catholics on the other side, when the English king came up the road he waved over to the Catholics; Protestants so angry at what he done and to this day they still want it all their own way. There's is a Irish majority we are equal now like it.✊=🇮🇪
are we equal tho, protestants still get Preferencial treatment when it comes to the law, more catholics are in jail more catholics are homeless or without a home unless your sinn fein but what if your a normal catholic non political or your political in the sense you want a united ireland but wouldn't join the ira or sinn fein you get tortured. i would have supported the 1919-1922 ira from the war of independence as they ligit have a dream and hope as did the 69-81 ira but after 81 it went downhill i know that and i wasn't born till 1990 , peace isn't here as we're told it is, if true peace is here we'd have a united (outside the eu, free from british rule and sovereign) 32 county irish republican socialist republic of ireland where jobs arn't given on the basis of what score you got on a paper but what skills you have got and jobs are plentiful, gay marriage isn't shoved down ppls throats (i have no problem with gay ppl just sick of hearing it in the news) and abortion does not exist, families are given preference for homes, irish gaelic is our everyday spoken language and everyone has the same money not this person gets 500 grand a year where this person only gets 25 grand a year, where politics and sport are ppl lead and true justice is there no drugs or drug dealers exist on our streets and our 32 county police service is held accountable for mistakes our defense forces defend our nation and heinous crimes are strictly dealt with. kids have respect for their elders as do teens and young ppl, older ppl are taken care of by the community who help them live a decent life neighbours care about one another again and bullies are exposed for the cowards they are , sectarianism does not exist and theres clean fresh air, clean water, countryside is as green as a leaf and cities town and villages are district and community lead, and walls are down, reconciliation amongst communities, now i call that peace
it's more about identity unfortunately some people on both sides didn't have the brain cells to think before they acted causing a complete sectarian clusterfuck of murder
Robert M. Frederickson ah it’s culture and narrative anxieties alongside a feeling of understandable begrudgement from one community that their ancestors land was stolen from them and an anger at how despicably they were treated for years and a feeling of suspicion from the other community that the 1st community want to treat them in the same fashion and erase and villainess their culture and the memories of their ancestors and loved ones.
Joe Conroy interesting. My family was from the Protestant side in cork until 1921, having been there for a couple centuries. We are mostly now in Canada and the US. My sister and I visited cork and by happenstance met the folks living in our ancestral home, with a bust of Simon devalera on the stairway landing. Lovely folks, just strikes me that that we very much are/were the same folks, just on a different side of a political barrier Anyhow love Ireland
Exactly. I'm glad you Irish finally recognise what we in Britain have been telling you for 500 years. European Catholicism is wrong and British Protestantism is right
the Roman Catholic Church was referred to in the constituition of the Irish Free State as "the religion of the vast majority" therefore giving the Roman Catholic Church great power finally in a plebescite held by the Irish Republic voted to delete this part of the constituition
Why delete it? the vast majority were in fact Catholic. Ireland was known worldwide for its Catholic faith and in fact Catholics all around the world sided with Ireland. There is a vast amount of literature on this subject.
@@stpat7614 nothings ever achieved without bloodshed, ppl didn't want home rule they wanted an irish republic consisting of all 32 counties free and sovereign
@@johnjames5587 The point I was making was that had Ireland not been partitioned, the RC Church achieved such power, and would not have replaced London as the oppressor.
My grandfather immigrated from N. Ireland to New Zealand in the 1920's when my dad was a boy. I can see why.
My grandfather on my dad's side left with his brother to Canada he put on his papers when he arrived he would never return to Northern Ireland. So did his mother and 3 sisters but, they went to the US!
@ruairidevine You think the general research on this era shows it as good craic and enjoyable?
What were they thinking ...............................?
@Ligerpride No but it doesn't show civilians killing other civilians. The war was won in Munster and Dublin with a sympathetic public which I understand but a lot of innocent blood was shed particularly in Belfast which is ignored in most films made about the era.
@Ligerpride yes a civil war that had a greater death toll than the so called Anglo-Irish War and the number of deaths in Northern Ireland was relatively small despite the suppression of the Catholic minority
In 1921 the Catholic church had massive influence 'with Catholics' . There was no real foundation for the fears of Protestants in the North, it was used as usual as the Sectarian dogma of Unionists. The real reason was Economics, the South fell into a deep recession after 1921 and never recovered until the EU got involved. It was DeValeras 1937 Constitution that gave the Catholic church special status in Irish society. At the opening of the Northern parliament the King actually expressed that he wished to see Ireland reunited one day because it was a Minority on both sides that pushed their will on the majority.
The irony is Home Rule would likely not have been Rome Rule if Ireland had stayed together. A large Protestant minority would have been a bulwark.
I would disagree with your comments about the Church. We have seen right up to recently how the RC Church had a major hand in the running of the Republic.
At least two political leaders have had to resign over the abuse scandal because the law was handed over to the Church to deal with it.
When RTE was established the Bishop of Dublin demanded everything that was to be shown was to be cleared by him first.
Then we have the laws brought in by the Government at the behest of the RC Church to ensure children in ‘mixed’ marriages were to be brought up as RC. It really was Rome Rule.
Both of you are talking nonsense. Protestants in Northern Ireland (70% of the population in 1921) didn't 'fear' a Republic of Ireland , they simply wanted no part of it. Why leave the second most successful country in the world (at that time) to be part of a backward, peasant society with very unenlightened social conventions and dominated by a church that you don't subscribe to? The idea of a Protestant 'bulwark' in that society is as absurd today as it was then - they'd simply have been treated in the same way Protestants were treated in the Irish Free State after 1921.
Well I would say that much has been said about a rather pointless civil war that was quite severe in the Free State, and a rather vicious one too.
I would agree with you though that the adaptation to the newly formed Northern Ireland has generally been ignored in both video documentary and in literature, that is very true and you make a good point about that. In many ways it is now treated as the problem of the people living there whilst Dublin and London have washed their hands of the area.
I love old comments like this, hope you well boi
can anyone identify the witnesses here?
This is the terrible truth of just how bad those times were in comparison with the romanticised films made about the era based in the south.
I feel both anger and sorrow for the people of my homeland - oppressed, lied to and used by Westminster/the British Crown for their own ends. Partition should never have happened, we can't do much about the past, a place we love to dwell, but we can do something about the future - bring on a border poll and set our people free. 26 + 6 = 1.
The vast majority of people in what became Northern Ireland did not want to become part of an Irish Republic. In this documentary, the voice spoken by the English woman is, for the most part, surprisingly impartial. Unfortunately, at the end of the video they hand over to Irish Nationalist women and it becomes, all too predictably, biased in favour of the minority and against the majority.
If you exclude the majority of the population, then the minority you do include, becomes the majority. Fermanagh, never wanted to be included in Northern Ireland, they were only partitioned at the insistence of Carson. However, in a more recent plebiscite, Westminster was fine, ignoring the Northern Irish and Scottish vote, with regard to Brexit and only considered the overall UK vote, why, because it suited their purposes. - In 1798, Ulster Presbyterian organised and lead a nation wide uprising, so at that point, not all were happy with British rule. As to the inclusion of the 'nice' British women and the 'nasty' nationalists women, do you think the documentary producer had an agenda??? Our fellow country men and women have suffered over 400 years of physical, political and cultural oppression, why wouldn't they feel aggrieved at the British crown/state. Look, forget the past, let us make our way, as a single united nation, one people, with different cultures, under a flag that represents both our traditions.Adh mor ort agus slan.
Hi, @@WildBoreWoodWind.
I'm sure you're aware that the majority of people in Northern Ireland prefer to stay in the UK rather than to join with the Republic of Ireland, and it's been that way since 1921 when Northern Ireland was founded - indeed, that was why it was founded. So, to suggest: "let us make our way, as a single united nation, one people, with different cultures" seems to me to be misty-eyed romanticism, as does your assertion that "Ulster Presbyterians organised and lead a nation wide uprising". It is true that the 1798 rebellion's proponents were indeed middle-class, liberal Belfast Presbyterians (allied with like-minded Dublin Anglicans and Catholics). However, only a small proportion of Presbyterians participated in the rebellion in Ulster and it was quickly put down. Since 1800, Ulster Presbyterians have overwhelmingly been supporters of the Union with Britain.
As to Brexit: the question on the ballot paper was "should the UK leave the European Union". If any part of the UK doesn't wish to abide by the result then they are, of course, free to leave the UK by voting in an independence referendum.
I don't know any Gaelic so I can't understand your last phrase but I'll wish you likewise.
One hundred years later, Unionists no longer hold a majority. Northern Ireland never had its own flag and never had a national anthem. It's as though everyone knew it was a temporary solution. And so it has proved.
amazing to see dawson bates
a hero of yours? he was a hateful wee bastard.....
@@GAVINCBELL I agree . He was known to be very sectarian . Watch episode 1 of paranormal encounters on my channel and you will see the connection 😁
I was talking to a woman who seen the English king come to Belfast. She said she was on the crumlin road Protestant on one side and Catholics on the other side, when the English king came up the road he waved over to the Catholics; Protestants so angry at what he done and to this day they still want it all their own way.
There's is a Irish majority we are equal now like it.✊=🇮🇪
are we equal tho, protestants still get Preferencial treatment when it comes to the law, more catholics are in jail more catholics are homeless or without a home unless your sinn fein but what if your a normal catholic non political or your political in the sense you want a united ireland but wouldn't join the ira or sinn fein you get tortured. i would have supported the 1919-1922 ira from the war of independence as they ligit have a dream and hope as did the 69-81 ira but after 81 it went downhill i know that and i wasn't born till 1990 , peace isn't here as we're told it is, if true peace is here we'd have a united (outside the eu, free from british rule and sovereign) 32 county irish republican socialist republic of ireland where jobs arn't given on the basis of what score you got on a paper but what skills you have got and jobs are plentiful, gay marriage isn't shoved down ppls throats (i have no problem with gay ppl just sick of hearing it in the news) and abortion does not exist, families are given preference for homes, irish gaelic is our everyday spoken language and everyone has the same money not this person gets 500 grand a year where this person only gets 25 grand a year, where politics and sport are ppl lead and true justice is there no drugs or drug dealers exist on our streets and our 32 county police service is held accountable for mistakes our defense forces defend our nation and heinous crimes are strictly dealt with. kids have respect for their elders as do teens and young ppl, older ppl are taken care of by the community who help them live a decent life neighbours care about one another again and bullies are exposed for the cowards they are , sectarianism does not exist and theres clean fresh air, clean water, countryside is as green as a leaf and cities town and villages are district and community lead, and walls are down, reconciliation amongst communities, now i call that peace
Feck me , delusion is still rampant
You basically are the same people, this whole thing is silly. Is it really about religion?
it's more about identity unfortunately some people on both sides didn't have the brain cells to think before they acted causing a complete sectarian clusterfuck of murder
@@RandomnessTube. well its obvious by your picture what ideology you come from ya bitter shit
Robert M. Frederickson ah it’s culture and narrative anxieties alongside a feeling of understandable begrudgement from one community that their ancestors land was stolen from them and an anger at how despicably they were treated for years and a feeling of suspicion from the other community that the 1st community want to treat them in the same fashion and erase and villainess their culture and the memories of their ancestors and loved ones.
Joe Conroy interesting. My family was from the Protestant side in cork until 1921, having been there for a couple centuries. We are mostly now in Canada and the US. My sister and I visited cork and by happenstance met the folks living in our ancestral home, with a bust of Simon devalera on the stairway landing. Lovely folks, just strikes me that that we very much are/were the same folks, just on a different side of a political barrier
Anyhow love
Ireland
Eire32
The Re-Unification of Ireland is Inevitable !.
Exactly. I'm glad you Irish finally recognise what we in Britain have been telling you for 500 years. European Catholicism is wrong and British Protestantism is right
Wise up ya 🤡🤡
the Roman Catholic Church was referred to in the constituition of the Irish Free State as "the religion of the vast majority" therefore giving the Roman Catholic Church great power finally in a plebescite held by the Irish Republic voted to delete this part of the constituition
Why delete it? the vast majority were in fact Catholic. Ireland was known worldwide for its Catholic faith and in fact Catholics all around the world sided with Ireland. There is a vast amount of literature on this subject.
Ah, but would that have happened if Ireland had stayed together and Home Rule been implemented without bloodshed?
@@stpat7614 nothings ever achieved without bloodshed, ppl didn't want home rule they wanted an irish republic consisting of all 32 counties free and sovereign
@@johnjames5587 The point I was making was that had Ireland not been partitioned, the RC Church achieved such power, and would not have replaced London as the oppressor.