Great to see the Solartron 7081 being given an airing! I designed the analogue circuits (1979-1983) and Brad Wilson did a lot of the software - all assembler in those days. It was a treat to work on it under the late John Bloomfield. The voltage reference had an analogue quadratic temperature correction circuit. Production testing and calibration was automated using Commodore Pet computers - leading edge stuff, believe it or not!
@@GeeDeeDee Not an engineer? There is innovation and there is engineering. Engineering is focused on making well designed, well working, durable things within a budget. There might be some innovation involved but even most innovative products are actually old designs mixed up with a very small amount of innovation sauce.
I added a Brymen BM869s to my kit about 2 years ago. It is a TANK. It's been dropped from an antenna tower and it just bounced. It is one of my very best and favorite meters of all times...
my friend from munich gave me a bm869 as a gift, I accidentally dropped one when i forgot i was bringing it while responding to a house fire the thing survived despite it being partially burned
A distributor sending you an old, used piece of gear for a video? That's actually really cool of them! It may also be not the best idea to recap the meter, since you may not be able to recalibrate it.
Love the video and your incredible sense of humor. That take on opening up the meter... its what i do... I LOL for a good minute. Really put a smile on my face.
The Brymen meter looks OK but it's just another DMM - another halfway there test tool. I keep hoping that a DMM will come out that includes inductance, cap ESR, *cap EPR*, and cap polarity tests. These are very common test requirements for electronics work, and I can think of no reason why a DMM can't do them all in a similar form-factor. Grr.
Wet tantalums don't bother, they will be fine so long as they are the glass seal type. Rubber seal ones replace on sight, they will be dead. Wet slug ones work till the point they leak through the case from the outside corroding away, inside the silver plate and the PTFE carrier holds the slug in place well, and provided you do not over volt them or reverse polarise they will be fine.
Nice little review. I’ve had my Brymen 869s for nearly 2 years. It has been flawless. It my favorite multimeter, mostly because it has a logical layout and an awesome display. I don’t dislike my Fluke 87v or my 28ii. I just like the usability of the Brymen better.
Steve I have an 87v, 289 and 1520 fluke megommeter. I like the fluke 1587 but it's $$$$!!! Brymen 880 is affordable. I've heard so much about brymen. Is their equipment good as people say. Thanks
@@TheWpruden - Brymen meters are Top Tier. A given model might exceed or be exceeded by its competitive counterpart. My experience is with the BM869s, BM786, and BM789 models. The BM789 is really great with TWO temperature inputs, a Fluke-Like auto-hold function, and a full 60,000 counts. Its little brother, BM786, does not have the dual temperature feature, but is otherwise about the same as the BM789. This series of meters have a single display, The BM869s has a multiple display which allows frequency and voltage to be displayed simultaneously, etc. It competes nicely with the Fluke 50,000 count meters. It DOES NOT have the Fluke-style auto-hold feature, and I REALLY like this feature a lot. It does have a 500,000 count DC Voltage range. THIS IS NICE IF YOU REALLY NEED MILLIVOLT RESOLUTION! All three meters have been bullet-proof and have not needed service. I can recommend them without hesitation. That said, my FLUKE 189 is still my favorite meter, hands down... Too bad it's out of production and used ones command a terrific value retention. Few bargains on Fluke 189s.
Thanks for the info on the Brymen! I've been looking for so long to a multimeter that will serve me well but that doesn't cost an arm and/or a leg and/or a kidney. Now if only I knew what I was doing.
On the topic of the front panel connector, it needs a Fischer Connectors - S 104 A053-130+ I believe to plug into that mystery connector. Someone else did the repair for one and documented finding the connector. That is one hell of a cool meter.
I use to be a Fluke only guy but after getting my first Brymen that has changed! Now I'm not saying the Brymen is better because they are really equal, BUT the Brymen gives more bang for your buck and is very well made so in that respect I would say the Brymen is a better.
After Meter Joe gave his stamp of approval to the bryman i got one. I have an 87v as well. I find myself grabbing the bryman more often though it might be because i use my meters in pretty dirty places and i dont want the fluke getting messed up:)
So the guy who puts a lot of effort into actual realistic and potentially destructive tests is now more credible than the one with the goofy video edits eh? Ts ts ...
@@reps honestly I respect your opinion and his equally . You both have kept true to yourselves and honest in reviewing. That's very very rare these days (you better not sell out!) Thanks for all your hard work and funny edits!
Ive Brymens 867S and 257S, used Fulkes many many years (nope, I was happy too and keep my nice-old Fluke's). Brymens are really nice multimeters and everyday-horse guys: no any issues, all works fine (its maybe 6 moths daily work with). 257s is a little bit faster compared to 867s, but 867s is more accurate as well, so, its ok for me. I ordered Brymens at Welectron too..;-)
So true about nanovolts. And it's not the worst, try Fluke 8508A in resistance. 3 minutes per sample :P. Recap ofcourse :) If you up to the challenge (in shipping, that is), I can calibrate your K2001 at no charge.
Measuring low voltages can be useful to measure high-current shunts (e.g. 100Amp or 1000Amp) using low test current (so shunt does not heat up and drift). Another example - thermocouple or resistance bridge measurements, when you trying to detect little deviations. Calibration is another application, very useful if you in measurement device design business.
I just realized that I have a Solatron 7071 its 7 1/2 smaller brother just laying around... It was throw in the trashbin at a reorganization of the R&D department, I did put up a hard fight to keep it in the inventory. But it was decided to go as "old and obsolete"... Now it resides at my home lab instead.
I am probably way wrong, but I say don't recap the radials. I have repaired a bunch of early 80's arcade boards and always suspected the caps. The only cap that I *had* to replace was physically beaten with a leg ripped off. However, more modern equipment I wouldn't hesitate.
I'm still working on my 7081. The supercap mod is ideal, though we chose somewhat different part numbers. Half of the capacitors on my board were bad, so I suggest replacing all the electrolytics, shotgun style. The power line detection PLL had high jitter, so I implemented a slower digital FLL circuit. Replacing the power line inlet module is also a good idea.
> power line detection PLL had high jitter Oh did you post something about that in the EEVBlog forum? That's what cause me to say 'it may still be' with so much going on behind the scenes of that meter :)
@@reps Yes, It's me that has 7081 SN718, and posted a thread on EEVBlog. Mine was received in quite bad shape, and I'm just now getting it back into one piece. Feel free to post on my thread if you would like more details on any of my mods/changes.
Tektronix made a beautiful 500,000 count multimeter in about 1999, dual display for volts and frequency, or AC & DC, with a protective case design that is still the best I've seen, and, yes, AA cells for power, batteries and fuse accessible, but interlocked with the input sockets, so that the "hot" section was not accessible with a probe in any of the sockets...optical data port, too...just too bad that I can't find one. Cheers!
2:42 - I almost invariably take things apart before powering them up, particularly with mains-powered devices to make sure that they are safe. Non-mains devices are opened up just to satisfy my curiosity.
Worked with same model Solatron back in about 1987. We had one as our local primary standard in a repair lab in Silicon valley. Was a nice meter, but as you say very slow in highest resolution mode.
There is still one parameter which you can never compare between the Fluke and Brymen : Long Term Reliability / Repeatable Performance = Dependability. I work in IBM and used to be a Service Engineer for 35+ years now, and we have consistently used Fluke. We dropped them, kicked them on the floor, used them at 50 deg.C and at 18 deg.C, installed them over shaking/oscillating mechanical bearings (long story !), used in dusty environments, and the list can literally forever. The meter NEVER gave a wrong reading. Full Stop. This is most important : depend on the reading you're getting from your Fluke. Now please make this simple calculation : How many Fluke meters are out in the field (not in the Labs), multiply that by the number of hours they have been working -> total "Meter.Hours" Now divide that by the number of reported failures ? You'll get a value for a metric which we can call "Reliability". Now do the same for other meters. Please note that I am not against Brymen or any other brand - but I just feel that it is not fair to compare just how many millivolts difference there is and then say "spot on : they are equal". Anyway I enjoy your videos.
I’ve got a fluke 89 4 that seems to have more functionality than the 5 you have. Also has the dual display and takes AA cells. And you can replace the fuses without breaking the calibration seal.. 89 5 seems a backward step, although I think they Marigot have renamed it a 189 when the the 89 v was released.
I have a Japanese calculator built in 1972 with the original electrolytic caps in it, they still work fantastically. Yes 47 year old electrolytic caps that still have a very low esr, wish I could get a hold of more of them built that well.
My 51 years old Hewlett-Packard HP-45 Scientific calculator has electrolytics too... and works perfectly! Just has needed the renewal of its three AA rechargeable cells, having being replaced about seven or eight times, originally NiCads, now running on COSTCO NiMH SONY's... From when HP built quality devices. Used DAILY!
Oh, the 7081. I bought one of those back in around 2002 for about $1500. This was our poor man's HP 3458A. I built several precision shunts to add current capability, and wrote a bunch of Met/Cal procedures to automate the measurement taking and uncertainty calculations. It came with a couple sets of proprietary leads (5 wire and 3 wire). I'd be interested to hear how you find its reliability. I found it very finicky. The calibration stability never quite lived up to its claims, often being out of spec when it was sent out for cal. One of the advertising features was "calibrated for life"; they had some mathematical formula (and an accompanying graph) showing that after something like 7 years, the drift was so low as to be ignored. I don't know how that reconciled that with potential component failure. The AC voltage was especially fussy. There was one high frequency adjustment you had to do by way of pushing a resistor back and forth (seriously, this was an instruction direct from the factory service center). The specimen I had displayed a very bizarre aspect of not being able to measure voltages at the exact frequency of 45Hz. Some kind of resonance issue; the reading would slowly drift up well past the specified limit of error, pause, and then drift down to about the same magnitude below the limit of error. I'm talking orders of magnitude on the specified uncertainty. If you varied the voltage just slightly, it was rock solid. I got around this by writing into my Met/Cal sub procedure for 7081 AC measurements to throw an error if you tried to measure at a frequency of between 44 and 46 Hz. Good times. Thanks for the trip down memory lane.
Have a similar Bryman. find it a bit annoying in daily use, particularly the combined resistance/conductivity/contunity setting where you have to cycle through the almost-never-used conductivity to get between the very commonly used resistance and continuity.
Nope, sold it - But I do still thing it's a decent motor! I might get the opportunity to show a 2000 EUR swiss-made e-wheel kit soon, might be an interesting comparison
Appears you're comparing to the Fluke 87V (6,000 counts or 20,000 hi-res). There's the Fluke 189 with 50,000 counts, dual display, and lots of other goodies which can be purchased used for similar cost of the Bryman.
Hello I`m considering wether buying Fluke 177 or Brymen BM869s. Both are almost same Price. Brymen does offer more Value for the money, Fluke has a very good reputation and build quality - is as far as i know - on a very high level. So I kindly ask which one would you choose?
I'm surprised the 87 series is still around, I thought it was replaced by the 18x and now 28x. Being a proud owner of a 189, it would be interesting to see that compared to the Brymen. It also has a very useful two-line display, and uses AA batteries (or even bigger ones, C or D, can't remember, with an appropriate battery box), so that's two advantages of the Brymen gone. Let us know how you get on with it.
Fluke historically has kept some classical products in long production because they are used in government test specs. The older Fluke catalogs called these limited demand products when they were old. Usually these products had NSN 6625 or NSN 4931 starting numbers. An example is the classic Fluke 8000A Digital Multimeter was kept in production many years after the 8050A was out. The cost to verify an old test procedure on a declining military device is thousands the cost of the meters. So they wisely do what is cost effective.
Noticed one of the resistors (the big green ones) was covered in heat shrink, what would be the purpose of this? the others directly adjacent didn't have the same...
BRYMEN is an excellent multimeter, I wish they sold it directly in USA and I wish data link cable was priced more affordable. In USA they rebrand Brymen and sell it under names like Greenlee and EXTECH and charge ARM and a LEG.
Brymen BM839 is really nice multimeter. It is not Fluke 87 V replacement still, unless you have some specific needs. Fluke is still better in terms of build quality, protections, just robustness and trust. Brymen BM839 tho is a good contender, and adds some features that are great. Dual display, larger battery capacity, easy access to fuses, good probes, good banana sockets and of course phenomenal pricing, makes it excellent replacement for Fluke 87 V, if you are on a budget, and mostly interested in electronics work. But for electronics work BM867s (50000 counts, 2 temperature channels, 1uV resolution, 4-20mA control loop readings, PC Comm interface, dedicated knob position for diode checks with 3.5V open circuit voltage (vs 2.8V on BM839)!, square wave duty cycle measurements, 0.01 Ohms resolution in 500 Ohm range, can do 5 reads/s in 4.5 digit mode, and 1.25 reads/s in 5.5 digit mode, frequency counter up to 1MHz), BM257s or 121GW are probably even better.
Nice DMMs, but don't supercaps have much higher leakage current compare to batteries which would lead to the data in the volatile memories be lossed much quicker and that would be problematic if they hold things like calibration data? That was the case for meters like HP3457 and 78. Can you confirm whether this is the case for your Solartron DMM? And I think recap is a must for instrument like this.
Valid concern! The calibration data is stored in a very weird part that doesn't need power: pdf.dzsc.com/88889/44959.pdf The battery I replaced is for settings and (I think) saved measurement data. There's another lithium battery further back in the meter for a RTC
Don't re-cap. Those old caps probably outlive the "modern" ones. The ESR could be lower than todays standard, but it works with those, designed for those. I never had to replace caps on any pre-90s or early 90s equipment. The bloody caps started to appear somewhere between 1995-2000...
I would suggest recapping just to be safe. Those caps might last a good while longer, but if they don't you probably wouldn't want to risk any of those parts that would be damn near impossible to obtain having a catastrophic failure.
Marco. Love your vids. Absolutely top notch wizardry. I have a question. I bought a cheap bench power supply. Topower chinese brand. It malfunctoned recently. I turn it on and it spike to 24v and then nothing what so ever. I have basic electronic skills but no diagram for this. Do you have a tip to lead me in the right direction ? Thanks
GOOD TO DAY TO YOU SIR , I HAVE A BELOVED FLUKE 192 SCOPE METER IN NEED OF SOME SCREEN REPAIRS AND CALIBRATION . I WOULD BE GRATEFUL TO KNOW IF YOU WOULD BE INTERESTED IN THE REPAIR OF THIS FLUKE AND THANK YOU FOR THE GREAT VIDEOS AND YOUR TIME !
Marco, would you sell the Fluke in favour of the Brymen? I have another Brymen and must say that the quality vs price is incredible. I have also the 87V series Fluke and it is a good meter, but the price of it seems to be too much. What do you think?
Thanks for the raise, that I totally don't deserve at the moment :) Yeah the Fluke is a bit 'overhyped' but personally I wouldn't sell mine unless I'm starving. I like its display and its ergonomics a bit better and it's often handy to have multiple multimeters
Marco Reps Thanks for the reply. So the 87V is still the “king” despite of its price. But what is so special about its ergonomics? I never had the Brymen of the same “cast”, so I dont know. Damn, I wished that the underdog had a chance this time. Maybe next time..
Go for the BM786 as sold by EEVblog for 150 usd. Why settle for 6k counts when you can have more features and 60k counts on a big digit/bar display? Also, the BM785 is similar from TME for few dollars less.
The caps look like Sprague caps. So I would keep them. The old Sprague seemed to me very robust. Had them in an HP power supply from 1960. All in perfect condition.
Have you ever used a Testo multimeter? I've had one for a while now, and I'd prefer if it had a rotary dial, but other than that I think it's actually better than the Fluke's we have at work. I almost exclusively use DC volt, resistance and continuity checks.
Hi.Marco I have old Fluke 87 True rms. Its has abit of a problems with the display and reading frequencies. AC and dc are ok. I need a multi meter that can measure output voltage from switch mode Transformers . I now have a UNI-T UT210E witch will not measure AC from switch mode transformer AC out. I aso have the UNI-T 139C witch also das not measure AC. they will only work on measurein AC mains house voltage. will the BM839 work better then what I have. Let me know if have any good advice about the Bm839. Thanks Yannis
I suspect is because of the high frequency switch mode power supplys have . but my old banger fluke 87 read the voltages correct. am looking for a budget not too expensive multimeter to replace my fluke 87. I have not tried a brymen multimeter yet . If the BM839 reads I would lake to buy one.If some who has could please try and let me know. Thanks
Great to see the Solartron 7081 being given an airing! I designed the analogue circuits (1979-1983) and Brad Wilson did a lot of the software - all assembler in those days. It was a treat to work on it under the late John Bloomfield. The voltage reference had an analogue quadratic temperature correction circuit. Production testing and calibration was automated using Commodore Pet computers - leading edge stuff, believe it or not!
wow really? awesome! I happen to be in the middle of a little follow up right now ... I hope I am not messing up your analog section too badly :)
On the question of "Re-Cap or not?" my answer is "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." I always enjoy your videos.
I agree but those tantalum capacitors can be timebombs.
Good point. Really puts the "prevention" in "Preventative Maintenance".
It's not really fixing, just destruct prevention
Most (but maybe not all) of the axial-lead caps are hermetic tantalum which will outlive us all.
Let me remind you of the 1st rule of engineering;
Don't fix what's not broken.
Thanks for the videos and your subtle humor.
@@GeeDeeDee Not an engineer? There is innovation and there is engineering. Engineering is focused on making well designed, well working, durable things within a budget. There might be some innovation involved but even most innovative products are actually old designs mixed up with a very small amount of innovation sauce.
The 1st rule of youtube engineering: if it isn't broke, keep fiddling with it until it is. You get more views that way.
Let me remind you of the 1st rule of recieving new things. Taking it apart and playing with it till its broke
I added a Brymen BM869s to my kit about 2 years ago. It is a TANK. It's been dropped from an antenna tower and it just bounced. It is one of my very best and favorite meters of all times...
Hey glad to hear it the BM869 is truly remarkable meter. It's becoming my favorite meter as well. Fluke and their overpriced units can take a hike.
wish they shipped to the US. Id get one
@@derf213 TME of Poland will ship to the USA. I’ve never needed the warranty, but suspect I’d have to ship it back to Poland for service.
my friend from munich gave me a bm869 as a gift, I accidentally dropped one when i forgot i was bringing it while responding to a house fire the thing survived despite it being partially burned
Marco reps posted, time to drop everything!
Idk why, but your video style is some kind of German ThisOldTony!
I love it!
A distributor sending you an old, used piece of gear for a video? That's actually really cool of them!
It may also be not the best idea to recap the meter, since you may not be able to recalibrate it.
Love the video and your incredible sense of humor. That take on opening up the meter... its what i do... I LOL for a good minute. Really put a smile on my face.
The Brymen meter looks OK but it's just another DMM - another halfway there test tool.
I keep hoping that a DMM will come out that includes inductance, cap ESR, *cap EPR*, and cap polarity tests. These are very common test requirements for electronics work, and I can think of no reason why a DMM can't do them all in a similar form-factor. Grr.
*cough* Mastech MS8269 *cough* But there should be a few more very similar also by Mastech
I always support welectron. Best prices in Europe and outstanding personalised service. Not once but 5 times!
Oh did they bribe you with vintage test gear as well? 😇 Jk, lovely people who are actually into this stuff and not just businessmen
@@reps nope.. just bought lots of brymens. Very robust input protection throughout.
Wet tantalums don't bother, they will be fine so long as they are the glass seal type. Rubber seal ones replace on sight, they will be dead. Wet slug ones work till the point they leak through the case from the outside corroding away, inside the silver plate and the PTFE carrier holds the slug in place well, and provided you do not over volt them or reverse polarise they will be fine.
Those will keep rain, dirt and falling video lights off the sensitive circuit....? Wait what? Oh never mind.
Nice little review. I’ve had my Brymen 869s for nearly 2 years. It has been flawless. It my favorite multimeter, mostly because it has a logical layout and an awesome display. I don’t dislike my Fluke 87v or my 28ii. I just like the usability of the Brymen better.
Steve
I have an 87v, 289 and 1520 fluke megommeter.
I like the fluke 1587 but it's $$$$!!!
Brymen 880 is affordable. I've heard so much about brymen. Is their equipment good as people say.
Thanks
@@TheWpruden - Brymen meters are Top Tier. A given model might exceed or be exceeded by its competitive counterpart. My experience is with the BM869s, BM786, and BM789 models. The BM789 is really great with TWO temperature inputs, a Fluke-Like auto-hold function, and a full 60,000 counts. Its little brother, BM786, does not have the dual temperature feature, but is otherwise about the same as the BM789. This series of meters have a single display, The BM869s has a multiple display which allows frequency and voltage to be displayed simultaneously, etc. It competes nicely with the Fluke 50,000 count meters. It DOES NOT have the Fluke-style auto-hold feature, and I REALLY like this feature a lot. It does have a 500,000 count DC Voltage range. THIS IS NICE IF YOU REALLY NEED MILLIVOLT RESOLUTION! All three meters have been bullet-proof and have not needed service. I can recommend them without hesitation. That said, my FLUKE 189 is still my favorite meter, hands down... Too bad it's out of production and used ones command a terrific value retention. Few bargains on Fluke 189s.
Thanks for the info on the Brymen! I've been looking for so long to a multimeter that will serve me well but that doesn't cost an arm and/or a leg and/or a kidney.
Now if only I knew what I was doing.
Which one is the best multimeter for everything. ( home, industrial, electricians and for electrical users)
The Unobtainium BS1234 v9784-356-B, but make sure to purchase the Internet Add-On.
On the topic of the front panel connector, it needs a Fischer Connectors - S 104 A053-130+ I believe to plug into that mystery connector.
Someone else did the repair for one and documented finding the connector.
That is one hell of a cool meter.
I use to be a Fluke only guy but after getting my first Brymen that has changed! Now I'm not saying the Brymen is better because they are really equal, BUT the Brymen gives more bang for your buck and is very well made so in that respect I would say the Brymen is a better.
After Meter Joe gave his stamp of approval to the bryman i got one. I have an 87v as well. I find myself grabbing the bryman more often though it might be because i use my meters in pretty dirty places and i dont want the fluke getting messed up:)
So the guy who puts a lot of effort into actual realistic and potentially destructive tests is now more credible than the one with the goofy video edits eh? Ts ts ...
@@reps honestly I respect your opinion and his equally . You both have kept true to yourselves and honest in reviewing. That's very very rare these days (you better not sell out!)
Thanks for all your hard work and funny edits!
@@reps Is that the same credible guy who shows off his Pace just to make JBC fans angry? Bet he's not running it on firmware 1.4 yet.. Too bad.
Love the Brymens! My 869S is my favourite handheld unit. Found Welectron yesterday, will try to buy from them next time.
Ive Brymens 867S and 257S, used Fulkes many many years (nope, I was happy too and keep my nice-old Fluke's). Brymens are really nice multimeters and everyday-horse guys: no any issues, all works fine (its maybe 6 moths daily work with). 257s is a little bit faster compared to 867s, but 867s is more accurate as well, so, its ok for me. I ordered Brymens at Welectron too..;-)
So true about nanovolts. And it's not the worst, try Fluke 8508A in resistance. 3 minutes per sample :P. Recap ofcourse :) If you up to the challenge (in shipping, that is), I can calibrate your K2001 at no charge.
That settles it, recap it is 😇 K2001 is still waiting for it's new oled display, but you bet I'll remember that offer ...
Can flux and thermals stresses when desoldering and resoldering caps, impact accuracy of high value resistors in this box of voodoo?
why do you need nanovolts?
is it a special kind of fetish or are there other practical applications?
Both and that makes it even better, mostly metrology and biopotential stuff
Measuring low voltages can be useful to measure high-current shunts (e.g. 100Amp or 1000Amp) using low test current (so shunt does not heat up and drift). Another example - thermocouple or resistance bridge measurements, when you trying to detect little deviations. Calibration is another application, very useful if you in measurement device design business.
There is something about your videos, that makes one feel at home and cosy.
I just realized that I have a Solatron 7071 its 7 1/2 smaller brother just laying around...
It was throw in the trashbin at a reorganization of the R&D department, I did put up a hard fight to keep it in the inventory. But it was decided to go as "old and obsolete"...
Now it resides at my home lab instead.
I am probably way wrong, but I say don't recap the radials. I have repaired a bunch of early 80's arcade boards and always suspected the caps. The only cap that I *had* to replace was physically beaten with a leg ripped off. However, more modern equipment I wouldn't hesitate.
Never change a running system :)
Yeah, don´t replace the caps.
At 3:12 I had to rewind this video several times and still can't stop laughing. This really made my day! :-)
I really liked you replacing that old Varta battery with those supercaps.
lmao the reaction to those hand soldered spots ^^
Love the fresh humor, very cleverly done... well done .
I'm still working on my 7081. The supercap mod is ideal, though we chose somewhat different part numbers. Half of the capacitors on my board were bad, so I suggest replacing all the electrolytics, shotgun style. The power line detection PLL had high jitter, so I implemented a slower digital FLL circuit. Replacing the power line inlet module is also a good idea.
> power line detection PLL had high jitter
Oh did you post something about that in the EEVBlog forum? That's what cause me to say 'it may still be' with so much going on behind the scenes of that meter :)
@@reps Yes, It's me that has 7081 SN718, and posted a thread on EEVBlog. Mine was received in quite bad shape, and I'm just now getting it back into one piece. Feel free to post on my thread if you would like more details on any of my mods/changes.
Received a new BM257s from Welectron at today. It was sent exactly in same cardboard box with same packaging paper around as you had yours :)
Tektronix made a beautiful 500,000 count multimeter in about 1999, dual display for volts and frequency, or AC & DC, with a protective case design that is still the best I've seen, and, yes, AA cells for power, batteries and fuse accessible, but interlocked with the input sockets, so that the "hot" section was not accessible with a probe in any of the sockets...optical data port, too...just too bad that I can't find one.
Cheers!
Hi Marco Reps. Do you maybe have a link to the Probe Masters- the one you provided after these "many" years has expired :(...
2:42 - I almost invariably take things apart before powering them up, particularly with mains-powered devices to make sure that they are safe. Non-mains devices are opened up just to satisfy my curiosity.
Worked with same model Solatron back in about 1987. We had one as our local primary standard in a repair lab in Silicon valley. Was a nice meter, but as you say very slow in highest resolution mode.
I love your videos and I already binge watched them all shortly after subscribing a few days ago. keep posting often please!
There is still one parameter which you can never compare between the Fluke and Brymen : Long Term Reliability / Repeatable Performance = Dependability.
I work in IBM and used to be a Service Engineer for 35+ years now, and we have consistently used Fluke. We dropped them, kicked them on the floor, used them at 50 deg.C and at 18 deg.C, installed them over shaking/oscillating mechanical bearings (long story !), used in dusty environments, and the list can literally forever. The meter NEVER gave a wrong reading. Full Stop. This is most important : depend on the reading you're getting from your Fluke.
Now please make this simple calculation : How many Fluke meters are out in the field (not in the Labs), multiply that by the number of hours they have been working -> total "Meter.Hours" Now divide that by the number of reported failures ? You'll get a value for a metric which we can call "Reliability". Now do the same for other meters.
Please note that I am not against Brymen or any other brand - but I just feel that it is not fair to compare just how many millivolts difference there is and then say "spot on : they are equal".
Anyway I enjoy your videos.
I know it's an old video but such a nice, informative and tastefully entertaining one; thank you.
I’ve got a fluke 89 4 that seems to have more functionality than the 5 you have. Also has the dual display and takes AA cells. And you can replace the fuses without breaking the calibration seal.. 89 5 seems a backward step, although I think they Marigot have renamed it a 189 when the the 89 v was released.
I love these videos. Educational and calming. 🤗
I have a Japanese calculator built in 1972 with the original electrolytic caps in it, they still work fantastically. Yes 47 year old electrolytic caps that still have a very low esr, wish I could get a hold of more of them built that well.
My 51 years old Hewlett-Packard HP-45 Scientific calculator has electrolytics too... and works perfectly! Just has needed the renewal of its three AA rechargeable cells, having being replaced about seven or eight times, originally NiCads, now running on COSTCO NiMH SONY's...
From when HP built quality devices. Used DAILY!
Love your commentary and humor while being very informative.
Wonderfull Sunday entertainment. Great video, great sense of humor too !
I would check the caps. They are deceptive, too, one in a Keithley 2001 started sneakly leaking
I just came to see the solartron. I have fluke and field piece on my bag for meters. That thing looked like a beast
What was the manufacturer name on the mystery mahogany oven? It was made near me.
Oh, the 7081. I bought one of those back in around 2002 for about $1500. This was our poor man's HP 3458A. I built several precision shunts to add current capability, and wrote a bunch of Met/Cal procedures to automate the measurement taking and uncertainty calculations. It came with a couple sets of proprietary leads (5 wire and 3 wire). I'd be interested to hear how you find its reliability. I found it very finicky. The calibration stability never quite lived up to its claims, often being out of spec when it was sent out for cal. One of the advertising features was "calibrated for life"; they had some mathematical formula (and an accompanying graph) showing that after something like 7 years, the drift was so low as to be ignored. I don't know how that reconciled that with potential component failure. The AC voltage was especially fussy. There was one high frequency adjustment you had to do by way of pushing a resistor back and forth (seriously, this was an instruction direct from the factory service center). The specimen I had displayed a very bizarre aspect of not being able to measure voltages at the exact frequency of 45Hz. Some kind of resonance issue; the reading would slowly drift up well past the specified limit of error, pause, and then drift down to about the same magnitude below the limit of error. I'm talking orders of magnitude on the specified uncertainty. If you varied the voltage just slightly, it was rock solid. I got around this by writing into my Met/Cal sub procedure for 7081 AC measurements to throw an error if you tried to measure at a frequency of between 44 and 46 Hz. Good times. Thanks for the trip down memory lane.
wow, that sounds fantastically dodgy! I'd love to look at their trms converter circuit and try to understand it, but realistically I probably won't
The Fluke 87 V is an awesome mulitmeter, but I always considered the 189 as the gold standard.
My probemasters just arrived today and WOW they were so soft and flexible and just luxurious.
Have a similar Bryman. find it a bit annoying in daily use, particularly the combined resistance/conductivity/contunity setting where you have to cycle through the almost-never-used conductivity to get between the very commonly used resistance and continuity.
Bit off-topic, but do you still use the iMortor ebike kit? Looking to get an ebike kit for my commute, wonder if you still think it's a decent motor.
Nope, sold it - But I do still thing it's a decent motor! I might get the opportunity to show a 2000 EUR swiss-made e-wheel kit soon, might be an interesting comparison
Appears you're comparing to the Fluke 87V (6,000 counts or 20,000 hi-res). There's the Fluke 189 with 50,000 counts, dual display, and lots of other goodies which can be purchased used for similar cost of the Bryman.
YEA ! All the new meter must be dissected to replace the fuses . I like this set up..
Great review Marco, could you post details of your little test jig with the binding posts they look as though they are floating. Class set up.
Very good video. Tks
I own: brymen 869s, fluke 189 and agilent u1253b.
The most I use now ?
The brymen!!
regards
Hello I`m considering wether buying Fluke 177 or Brymen BM869s. Both are almost same Price. Brymen does offer more Value for the money, Fluke has a very good reputation and build quality - is as far as i know - on a very high level. So I kindly ask which one would you choose?
@@Markus2801A The Brymen is far better than fluke 177. It can be compare with the 87 V or the 189. In my opinion !!
I'm surprised the 87 series is still around, I thought it was replaced by the 18x and now 28x. Being a proud owner of a 189, it would be interesting to see that compared to the Brymen. It also has a very useful two-line display, and uses AA batteries (or even bigger ones, C or D, can't remember, with an appropriate battery box), so that's two advantages of the Brymen gone. Let us know how you get on with it.
Fluke historically has kept some classical products in long production because they are used in government test specs.
The older Fluke catalogs called these limited demand products when they were old. Usually these products had NSN 6625 or NSN 4931 starting numbers.
An example is the classic Fluke 8000A Digital Multimeter was kept in production many years after the 8050A was out.
The cost to verify an old test procedure on a declining military device is thousands the cost of the meters. So they wisely do what is cost effective.
I use Solartron 7075. Had to replace that front Fischer probe connector with DIN-5.
that clip of the multimeter falling down was from a video by "I Did A Thing"
Nice to see AA batteries in the Brymen 839. I have the big brother 869s and it uses a 9V battery.
Noticed one of the resistors (the big green ones) was covered in heat shrink, what would be the purpose of this? the others directly adjacent didn't have the same...
BRYMEN is an excellent multimeter, I wish they sold it directly in USA and I wish data link cable was priced more affordable. In USA they rebrand Brymen and sell it under names like Greenlee and EXTECH and charge ARM and a LEG.
I haven't actually "laughed at loud" while watching a video in a long time, but "Protected by the thick chin on the Hell Boy bumper" got me. Thank you
That meter is older than you? Thanks, I feel old now. Great video. Thanks kid :)
Brymen BM839 is really nice multimeter. It is not Fluke 87 V replacement still, unless you have some specific needs. Fluke is still better in terms of build quality, protections, just robustness and trust. Brymen BM839 tho is a good contender, and adds some features that are great. Dual display, larger battery capacity, easy access to fuses, good probes, good banana sockets and of course phenomenal pricing, makes it excellent replacement for Fluke 87 V, if you are on a budget, and mostly interested in electronics work. But for electronics work BM867s (50000 counts, 2 temperature channels, 1uV resolution, 4-20mA control loop readings, PC Comm interface, dedicated knob position for diode checks with 3.5V open circuit voltage (vs 2.8V on BM839)!, square wave duty cycle measurements, 0.01 Ohms resolution in 500 Ohm range, can do 5 reads/s in 4.5 digit mode, and 1.25 reads/s in 5.5 digit mode, frequency counter up to 1MHz), BM257s or 121GW are probably even better.
I am left with one burning question. What is in the mahogany mystery oven?
Nice DMMs, but don't supercaps have much higher leakage current compare to batteries which would lead to the data in the volatile memories be lossed much quicker and that would be problematic if they hold things like calibration data? That was the case for meters like HP3457 and 78. Can you confirm whether this is the case for your Solartron DMM? And I think recap is a must for instrument like this.
Valid concern! The calibration data is stored in a very weird part that doesn't need power: pdf.dzsc.com/88889/44959.pdf The battery I replaced is for settings and (I think) saved measurement data. There's another lithium battery further back in the meter for a RTC
i learned a while ago that there are at least 2 types, the cheap ones and the expensive (battery like) ones
Was that solartron built in farnborough??
Don't re-cap. Those old caps probably outlive the "modern" ones. The ESR could be lower than todays standard, but it works with those, designed for those. I never had to replace caps on any pre-90s or early 90s equipment. The bloody caps started to appear somewhere between 1995-2000...
The Brymen can be started with a key combo press and then it stays on and does not auto power down.
That bit at 5:00 had me laughing out loud at work, thanks for making me feel awkward when looking at my colleagues surprised faces.
Hi. What is the motorized screw driver, very nice and small factor, and what is the name of that one
Regarding the recap question: if it ain't broken don't fix it.
Agreed
I would suggest recapping just to be safe. Those caps might last a good while longer, but if they don't you probably wouldn't want to risk any of those parts that would be damn near impossible to obtain having a catastrophic failure.
Would you install a better capacitors in bryman
Marco. Love your vids. Absolutely top notch wizardry. I have a question. I bought a cheap bench power supply. Topower chinese brand. It malfunctoned recently. I turn it on and it spike to 24v and then nothing what so ever. I have basic electronic skills but no diagram for this. Do you have a tip to lead me in the right direction ? Thanks
I’ve had my Brymen since 2016. My only complaint is the lack of the Fluke-style Auto-Hold function.
3:12 best part of not just this video but any ever produced. 😂😂😂😂😂
GOOD TO DAY TO YOU SIR , I HAVE A BELOVED FLUKE 192 SCOPE METER IN NEED OF SOME SCREEN REPAIRS AND CALIBRATION . I WOULD BE GRATEFUL TO KNOW IF YOU WOULD BE INTERESTED IN THE REPAIR OF THIS FLUKE AND THANK YOU FOR THE GREAT VIDEOS AND YOUR TIME !
Oh look! It's a Marco Reps video; always welcome.
Maybe a bit off topic, but I'd like a link to that little electric screwdriver you were using at 2:37. That thing looks pretty cool.
ES121, made a video about it
Thank you. I'll be sure to check it out.
Marco, would you sell the Fluke in favour of the Brymen? I have another Brymen and must say that the quality vs price is incredible. I have also the 87V series Fluke and it is a good meter, but the price of it seems to be too much. What do you think?
Thanks for the raise, that I totally don't deserve at the moment :)
Yeah the Fluke is a bit 'overhyped' but personally I wouldn't sell mine unless I'm starving. I like its display and its ergonomics a bit better and it's often handy to have multiple multimeters
Marco Reps Thanks for the reply. So the 87V is still the “king” despite of its price. But what is so special about its ergonomics? I never had the Brymen of the same “cast”, so I dont know. Damn, I wished that the underdog had a chance this time. Maybe next time..
Hi, what do you think of the Brymen BM257s ? Is this the best multimeter on the market in this price range ?
Go for the BM786 as sold by EEVblog for 150 usd. Why settle for 6k counts when you can have more features and 60k counts on a big digit/bar display? Also, the BM785 is similar from TME for few dollars less.
@@CliveChamberlain946 Hi, thanks for the advice, I have now bought the Brymen BM257s, we hope it will last me over time.
1:18 that sudden switch made me jump a little inside because I thought you were touching the tip of the soldering iron, was that jump cup intentional?
how much is the suggested price?
The caps look like Sprague caps. So I would keep them. The old Sprague seemed to me very robust. Had them in an HP power supply from 1960. All in perfect condition.
Can you say something about Brymen BM236R?
Marco great video, I am very interested on your high voltage capacitor tester set up. Do you mind to share the diagram? Thank you.
@Marco Reps Keysight is just about the only one who does handheld dmms discretely
The 87v also has a conductivity mode.
Can always use 3M matte film on the display to kill that knarly reflection
Watching your videos is a constant dilemma, either what you are saying is sarcastic or real😂😂
And I still struggle to differentiate😛
That abstractions are on point :)
Have you ever used a Testo multimeter? I've had one for a while now, and I'd prefer if it had a rotary dial, but other than that I think it's actually better than the Fluke's we have at work. I almost exclusively use DC volt, resistance and continuity checks.
Looking for a padded case for my BM869 meter. Ideas?
Do I schmell Schlumberger?
Yes for the recap, maybe video about it together with the mod?
A musician? Was that a tympani/kettledrum mallet at 0:58?
Fluke 87 (first model) for 70€ worth it?
Hi.Marco I have old Fluke 87 True rms. Its has abit of a problems with the display and reading frequencies. AC and dc are ok. I need a multi meter that can measure output voltage from switch mode Transformers . I now have a UNI-T UT210E witch will not measure AC from switch mode transformer AC out. I aso have the UNI-T 139C witch also das not measure AC. they will only work on measurein AC mains house voltage. will the BM839 work better then what I have. Let me know if have any good advice about the Bm839. Thanks Yannis
So why cant they measure the AC voltage of these transformers?
I suspect is because of the high frequency switch mode power supplys have . but my old banger fluke 87 read the voltages correct. am looking for a budget not too expensive multimeter to replace my fluke 87. I have not tried a brymen multimeter yet . If the BM839 reads I would lake to buy one.If some who has could please try and let me know. Thanks
Always reliably awesome. Here is my question for you,: in what common applications are nanovolt measurements handy? Thank you.
When evaluating linearity of 24-bit D/A converters :) (that’s just one of many possibilities of course)
Was this a model only available in Europe?