We race a series in Canada where the rules require standardized wiring using Weatherpack connections. MSD boxes are collected post race then re-assigned at the next race date.
In the USA it is different one series is so basic these cars with almost 1000 horsepower at 950 horsepower do not have breaks or allow traction control and must use these odd light diart racing tires on dirt tracks even if it is beyond muddy that is a feeder in the World of Outlaws series for the off road World Outlaw cars that is not always do people want to move up as a bunch do tend to say in these cars where as other series that used to be a feeder system for Indy car racing, they use a system only for dirt that must be disengaged on paved, thus banning one rare track that was 1/2 paved 1/2 dirt as 2 or 3 car series is basically oversized Miget that look more like mini sprint now and full on sprint cars without a wing, often people move on from this racing that used to be moving people up into Indy car to the World of Outlaw series. where these cars in both are not allowed to use blutooth/self learing. The Indy series now used a cheaper CART car as well as a few road only Miget series where they race old style midget cars where CART cars tried to compete with Indy car in 1998 to 2005 due how Penske tried to take over Indy spilt with a CART series and then later when merging series into a feeder for Indy car has nearly taken over with only really Chip Ganassi racing on the Indy team being competitive.
And if the device turned out to be a rev limiter who do we punish then? The rev limiter protects the engine...and shutting down the engine momentarily is going to slow the rear end slightly but considering it traction control is ludicrous, and a typical knee jerk reaction from those who are back markers...
Been a problem in the US on dirt oval cars for at least 20 years now. There are ways to police it, some tracks will swap out MSD boxes between racers. No one wants to take a chance on loosing an expensive piece. Changing timing can be done between races on any car with any ignition and is considered tuning not traction control. Tire doping is also not allowed in most auto racing in the US (not sure about drag racing) but most sprint car series here allow adjustable wing sliders.
In my opinion the only clause that would need to be added would be something like "any device that modifies the ability for the vehicle to maintain the level of grip or traction to the driving wheels by means of electrical intervention is strictly prohibited." Another way to look at it is maybe only 1 of those devices you mention are approved for use and therefore are easier to police in a way as scrutineers and stewards know exactly what to look for. You could then say something like "any competitors vehicle with the approved traction control device must be clearly identifiable and labelled as such and shall be free for inspection by race officials at any time prior to, during or following completion of any race event."
i used TC back in the 60s using a GM dual point dist and a push button on the steering to switch from one set of points to the other set of points controlling the dwell extender timing.
I’ve been a sprint car fan for thirty years. I once read an interview with Doug Wolfgang where he openly admitted to using Nos in the 80s. Today, a top of the line motor will run for $50-70k. You better believe these guys will take any advantage they can get.
So what was in Donny's file when he tore the tank off and it caught fire? Didn't look like straight methanol to me. Infact nitrous would have been my first guess to what was in that tank.
Been a sprint car fan for years and didn't know about this one. Appreciate the video. Would have appreciated it even more without the inserts. Just 2 cents. Appreciate your work and looking forward to your next video.
It would be pretty easy to specify a given spark control, say a certain model MSD box. Then, at the beginning of each night issue each car a sanctioning body owned SEALED MSD box that is installed under the supervision of a tech official. At the end of the night, the boxes in the first six cars are removed and checked for intact seals. ANY seal found tampered with or removed is an automatic DQ (hence the six places deep). Further, ANY car that shows up at the track with an illegal MSD box after entering, even if before going through tech gets a SIX MONTH suspension for the driver AND crew chief.
It’d still be possible to have something hidden in the wiring between the MSD box and the distributor. As technology advances and things get smaller and smaller it becomes easier to hide things.
I agree 100% anything I’ve ever driven from a semi to a sprint car, I want more control not less. I can see where this would help on asphalt and on dirt when qualifying the throttle is used way too much to steer these cars for computerized traction control.
I was a huge Jeff Gordon fan, I watched him try to do a burnout after winning the race, couldn’t get 800 HP to spin the rear wheels. I believe it was Traction Control in its infancy in NASCAR.
The only move is to allow it in its own class, and write rules around it. Other benefit would be to freeze rules for the non-TC class to a more affordable level / no electronics allowed.
Been around in the states for years. I retired as a crew chief in 98 and it was here then. Then it could be activated remotely by using a cell phone. The top WoO teams had it...
Officials could have a data recorder that they connect to a (random) car then later down-load to see what their timing was doing. I guess that all the MSD units are the same(?) so you could swop them from one car to another for the race meeting (and then give them back to the oridginal owner at the end of the night).
I agree with being able to adjust in the pits.. and if this is used.. there should be an LED light letting officials it is this or that.. once pushed off.. no changes.. even on reds.. Otherwise you will have cars pushing off to change timing slowing show down. Which this switch is taking the place of..
As a former official, I assure you its not simple. Finding the devices is rediculously difficult. Often, they are glued into the ignition box. It looks factory sealed with the rubberized muck and will test fine on a bench unless activated. You could look at logging ignition timing on suspected cars, but local tracks dont have money for data logging equipment. And time required would negatively affect the pacing of the show. One solution I've seen repeatedly offered is the track mandates standard wiring and owns all of the ignition boxes. The problem with this is cars from other localities, without your wiring. You either allow them in and potentially give them an unfair advantage, or turn them away. 2 cost. Maybe this one should be #1. Standardized boxes owned by the track would be many thousands of dollars. Call it 500 per box/wiring. In a 20 car field its 10 grand. Now do this across multiple classes, and it gets very expensive. Using the same boxes across multiple classes is a non-starter, fans wont sit there with no track action while boxes are pulled and installed on cars all night long. And racers would just find another way to achieve the same results. They would hide a tiny simple slew control somewhere in the car and jack it in to the igntion box the track provides, to retard timing if RPM is gained too quickly, denoting excess tire slip One that turns itself on after RPM goes through a certain regimen. Say 10 seconds at 3000 RPM. Resets when the ignition is turned off. Bluetooth can also enable disable and a crew member standing 50 feet away can perform the action. The wide variety of devices, activation etc. And time constraints of the track and keeping fans happy with non-stop action, is part what makes this all so very difficult. Im not for making it legal. That is the cop out. Lifetime ban? A local track doesnt have any teeth to make that happen anywhere else.. its an intractable issue.
I don't see where the 2 position system with switch out of the cockpit should be an issue. You could do the same thing with a timing light or the scale on the side of the Mag, it's just easier with less chance of a problem, making sure everyone gets back to racing.
Tag and seal systems are not perfect either. The same technology used for the seal is possible to be purchased from others. That was always a fear when I went go-kart nationals at Daytona. There were guys there with tractor trailer rigs for a GO-KART RACE! When I watched them seal my engine I thought how easy would it be to just buy kit to seal them myself? I could have a cheater motor to qualify and the legal one already for the Feature. Not saying anyone did that, but I sure didn't feel comfortable that the little seal was going to stop guys and gals from doing the ol' switch-a-roo.
There is a simple fix, have all the competing teams each bring a MSD box (with there race car) then at the meet all of the boxes are gathered up by the head of tech and then one by one they are randomly handed back out to the teams so each team should get a random MSD box that they must run during the event and that box is kept with that team until the next event and so on!
If you're running out front, you're pushing the gray area in the rule book. To be honest, on traction control, a better car setup will crush a poor setup with TC.
I have to say, it's a difficult thing to get my head around - I'd have thought that (Especially on the smaller tracks we have here in Australia) that the last thing a driver would want would be the engine derating itself through a corner? Obviously it does work though, maybe the simple solution is to just go to a control MSD box
Sprintcars rely heavily on “wing speed”, meaning the faster they go, the more downforce is gained by the wing pushing down on the car harder. When the track goes slick, the driver is unable to use the throttle as much because there is a lack of grip. With that lack of grip, the car is traveling much slower. A slower sprintcar means less wing speed. Traction control enables the car to never spin the wheels unnecessarily, meaning they’re faster off a corner, gaining more speed on the straights and then making more use of the wing. Hope this helps. Thanks for the comment and support of SprintcarHub! 👍🏼
Hmm, ever wonder why it used to be difficult for drivers to master the bottom on tracks like Knoxville and Williams Grove when they slick off? It took drivers with great throttle control like Lasoski and Kreitz. Now anyone can do it. Traction control needs to be heavily policed with heavy penalties for those that get caught. Knoxville used to have a lifetime ban if you got caught. That was back when in the late 90's/early 2000's when it was first starting to be known. Now you don't hear of any tracks or sanctions even checking for it.
Yeah any car can run the bottom at knoxville they just don't wanna go fast. Haha sorry bro but 1 car ran the bottom. And stuck with it this year and that car won. I think if anyone can run the bottom as you claim then everyone would have been on the bottom at the end of the race
Using a traction contol on a sprint car seems ridiculous Since all run a live rear axel and brakes on the left front, just how would one control in that configuration? If these cars are using a rev limiter that would affect traction only momentarily until the rpm slowed and then came back to below the rev limiter...
I’m designing a BT RF jamming device to counteract and would flatten the timing when they want it ,and spike power in traffic or induce dead pedal slide jobs and there not for sale ! Lol 😂 it sounds a lot like the TPS on my Dodge Cummins 5.9 that for six months I had this bizarre acceleration or hesitation then WOT and finally ending with the dreaded flat pedal at the worst possible time . If your from USA and you have owned a 3 gen you know what I’m talking about imagine trying to run sprint car ?
I did little 600cc minisprint racing. Saw a lot of guys using laptops on kawasaki 636 engines. What crap. The only traction control should be suspension and tire tweaks
good video..... but it'll ruin the sport.... that's what is so good about it it's the DRIVER with a decent setup and throttle control.... leave it be...
Electronics take the skill out of race driving. A driver isn't worth their money if electronics are involved in the vehicle control. As for motorcycles, the same holds true. Rider skill not electronics. However; two or four wheels, if electronics can make the vehicle safer in certain situations, it's up to the governing body & the Teams to have a discussion.
Brad sweet uses it. He uses the type that runs off hydraulic pressure that pulses the rear brake, it's far more popular in asphalt racing, but will work on a sprint car as well.
Is one of the three types of traction control used in Sprint Car racing the same type of traction control Jimmy Johnson used to win all those NASCAR Championships?...lol
Amen. Traction control ruins racing. If sprint car racing fails to police it, the sport suffers and becomes a pointless technological exercise. This is similar to the steroid era in American baseball. It *can* be policed - it's just a question of having the requisite will to protect the sport.
If they allow traction control over here then the racing will be as boring as F1. If your caught running it then it should be a life ban for either the driver or car owner. Simple as that!
@@SprintCarHub Well...... Gravel's big mouth let it slip, more than once, on his "Me Tour" Self-Promoting Videos. So ........ Gravel, his family, his friends, and anybody who looks like him, should be indefinitely banned from Sprint Car Racing? Is that what you're saying? I'm actually good with that. *_"Would you like that in a pump, or a loafer Mam?"_* I'd love to see Gravel selling shoes. Instead of his over-priced "ME" merchandise. I know for a fact. Gary Wright had traction control@ Little Rock, Arkansas. In *_"The 2001 Short Track Nationals"_*
@@SprintCarHub Yes sir. I think so. *"Crank Trigger Traction Control."* Here you go --> ua-cam.com/video/Y39umPuVn8k/v-deo.html Don't you just love how Mr. personal jet 10-Time WoO Champion never gave back to his fans? No in-car camera. No behind-the-scenes. No anything. Didn't seek publicity. Didn't need it. Didn't want it............ *ABOVE IT!* Now that Schatz can't win dick. 25 years into his career. *OUT OF THE BLUE* We get a first time tour of the shop, hauler, & crew. ua-cam.com/video/xYNkC9cKgGs/v-deo.html
@@raymond3803 Might want to do a little more homework there champ. Yes Gravel mentions Crank Trigger a couple of times in that video but that doesn't mean he is refering to traction control. Crank trigger ignition does not mean traction control.
I've watched a lot of guys spend tons of money to have the very best equipment to race with but got their butts handed to them at the track. Not because they couldn't drive but because the elite teams have traction control. As a former racer I can almost tell you who has it and who doesn't. To me it's pretty obvious.
If they legalize it, it's no longer an "unfair advantage", since everyone will be able to use it. I, personally, think I'd like the sport better without it, so that the person has more control and takes more personal skill, but there is an argument to be made for a technological edge making a difference as well.
They have chemicals to soften and make tires stickier often the chemicals claim faster lap times just like traction control claims. It is illegal to do in most sanctions.
Cheating in racing is about as common as steering wheels. Yes, I mean just about everyone has cheated in racing, especially at the higher levels. I’m not saying it’s ok to cheat though.
My as well have all wheel drive !! This is stupid , and expensive !! Less drivers in the future, lots of cars for sale in Canada !! Future don't look bright !! Just expensive , so much for grass roots raceing !!✌
Traction control on dirt with a series racing many different tracks and track conditions is not a full proof weapon. If the track is not dry slick and smooth, theres hardly any benefit. Tire doping and limitless engine and tire budgets are way more effective.
They are going to water drown circle track racing into mandatory trophies for everyone who enters and has little talent.. Sprint and other related vehicles have always had "traction control"... It is called the driver and talent.... I swear, they are s!ssifying racing everywhere.. What is next? High speed drones following drivers and telling them by way of "AI" the best lanes and if other cars are overheating, or the other competitors are dehydrated so push it hard on them?
You want to see T.C. at it's finest ? Ducati in Moto-GP . If fuel , butter fly's , timing can't be moved around all at the same time you have nothing !! When you see a sprint car with fly by wire and no mechanical driven spark or fuel pump , you my friend are gone to get your butt kicked big time !!!!! This stuff they are selling isn't worth two rows of painters shit !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Depends on the aim of the series. There are many where ABS, traction control etc are allowed. The series I race in they are allowed if they were standard on the road car the race is based on but not otherwise. Some series it's deemed that driver aids diminish the skill needed to race so are banned entirely. As with a lot of things in racing it comes down to whether the rules can be policed or not. Boggles my mind the lengths people will go to to cheat. Guess they find it easier to look at themselves in the mirror than I would.
Racing is rigged. Speedway is the worse no one cares about spoilt rich kids who’s dads own some sort of alcohol that like to go around in circles who all use the same engine builder. Seriously no one is interested it’s why there is about five people that watch it in a small designed crowed space so it’s not worth any money it’s like the concentration camp of car racing.
Donny schatz had it for years and nobody did shit about it and he won and won and won,and now the last 3 years of his driving you notice how he is clearly not the same driver without it????? Woo could not afford to lose him at the transition time of Steve retiring they needed a new top dog a new king so to speak so they let him get 200 wins with it and let it slide but nobody in woo will ever admit the truth about Schatz getting caught with it and more importantly turning cold shoulder to the situation. Schatz is clearly a different driver without it though. I like Schatz and think he is a great guy but he cheated for years. But if you are not cheating then your not trying!!!
Schatz still seemed to get to 300 wins in 2021... Smoke won one this summer because the leader blew the RR tire in the 4th turn headed to the checkers. To finish first, one must first finish.
How do you know for sure you a pit Stewart, you seen it on his car , you race with him . Or you just a bleacher creature?? They do look and pick the cars apart tech wise ! Lol WoW you say dont police this , they seem to in dirt latemodels lil for it .
@@chadalac1977 really dude this was well known and what cause you didn't know it makes it wrong or something?Bobby Jackson long time woo official was given the mob treatment if he went public cause it was best for the sport so the woo said at the time. This is old news
If you ban something with no way of policing it, all you have done is open up the class to cheaters. Most of the series that allow it have done so not to make the racing better but to make it more fair since they have no way of enforcing it, so just make it legal, problem solved. Note: There are ways to police traction control but that often requires allowing other things you don't want to allow (like data logging) or would require tracks/sanctioning bodies to invest in more inspection equipment and more knowledgeable inspectors.
We race a series in Canada where the rules require standardized wiring using Weatherpack connections. MSD boxes are collected post race then re-assigned at the next race date.
In the USA it is different one series is so basic these cars with almost 1000 horsepower at 950 horsepower do not have breaks or allow traction control and must use these odd light diart racing tires on dirt tracks even if it is beyond muddy that is a feeder in the World of Outlaws series for the off road World Outlaw cars that is not always do people want to move up as a bunch do tend to say in these cars where as other series that used to be a feeder system for Indy car racing, they use a system only for dirt that must be disengaged on paved, thus banning one rare track that was 1/2 paved 1/2 dirt as 2 or 3 car series is basically oversized Miget that look more like mini sprint now and full on sprint cars without a wing, often people move on from this racing that used to be moving people up into Indy car to the World of Outlaw series. where these cars in both are not allowed to use blutooth/self learing. The Indy series now used a cheaper CART car as well as a few road only Miget series where they race old style midget cars where CART cars tried to compete with Indy car in 1998 to 2005 due how Penske tried to take over Indy spilt with a CART series and then later when merging series into a feeder for Indy car has nearly taken over with only really Chip Ganassi racing on the Indy team being competitive.
@@caseysmith544what track is half paved half dirt? That could make for some interesting racing
You nailed it. The only traction control should to be your right foot! There needs to be heavy penalties for anyone using it.
And if the device turned out to be a rev limiter who do we punish then? The rev limiter protects the engine...and shutting down the engine momentarily is going to slow the rear end slightly but considering it traction control is ludicrous, and a typical knee jerk reaction from those who are back markers...
Great thinking points. Agree with you. No traction control. Keep it simple and have great racing.
Been a problem in the US on dirt oval cars for at least 20 years now. There are ways to police it, some tracks will swap out MSD boxes between racers. No one wants to take a chance on loosing an expensive piece. Changing timing can be done between races on any car with any ignition and is considered tuning not traction control. Tire doping is also not allowed in most auto racing in the US (not sure about drag racing) but most sprint car series here allow adjustable wing sliders.
Love your channel,am still learning the ins and outs of Sprint car racing and find your channel very informative. Thanks for the help...
In my opinion the only clause that would need to be added would be something like "any device that modifies the ability for the vehicle to maintain the level of grip or traction to the driving wheels by means of electrical intervention is strictly prohibited."
Another way to look at it is maybe only 1 of those devices you mention are approved for use and therefore are easier to police in a way as scrutineers and stewards know exactly what to look for. You could then say something like "any competitors vehicle with the approved traction control device must be clearly identifiable and labelled as such and shall be free for inspection by race officials at any time prior to, during or following completion of any race event."
I like your opinion. Sensible 👍🏼
i used TC back in the 60s using a GM dual point dist and a push button on the steering to switch from one set of points to the other set of points controlling the dwell extender timing.
Nice
There should be no traction control. That is what the driver is for.
Agreed!
Indeed
I don't think the driver should be responsible. Especially when drivers will show up and fill a seat@@SprintCarHub
I’ve been a sprint car fan for thirty years. I once read an interview with Doug Wolfgang where he openly admitted to using Nos in the 80s. Today, a top of the line motor will run for $50-70k. You better believe these guys will take any advantage they can get.
So what was in Donny's file when he tore the tank off and it caught fire? Didn't look like straight methanol to me. Infact nitrous would have been my first guess to what was in that tank.
Well done! I couldn’t agree more! Keep up the good work
I really appreciate the analog nature of Sprint Cars.
Been a sprint car fan for years and didn't know about this one. Appreciate the video. Would have appreciated it even more without the inserts. Just 2 cents. Appreciate your work and looking forward to your next video.
One correction. Well usually not legal in wing racing. Cockpit adjustable shocks are legal non wing depending on series.
Thanks for that 👍🏼
Side note: SprintcarHub will be focused on 410 winged sprints.
It would be pretty easy to specify a given spark control, say a certain model MSD box. Then, at the beginning of each night issue each car a sanctioning body owned SEALED MSD box that is installed under the supervision of a tech official. At the end of the night, the boxes in the first six cars are removed and checked for intact seals. ANY seal found tampered with or removed is an automatic DQ (hence the six places deep). Further, ANY car that shows up at the track with an illegal MSD box after entering, even if before going through tech gets a SIX MONTH suspension for the driver AND crew chief.
It’d still be possible to have something hidden in the wiring between the MSD box and the distributor. As technology advances and things get smaller and smaller it becomes easier to hide things.
I agree 100% anything I’ve ever driven from a semi to a sprint car, I want more control not less. I can see where this would help on asphalt and on dirt when qualifying the throttle is used way too much to steer these cars for computerized traction control.
Traction control may only help a little in qualifying, but would only become more beneficial throughout the night.
Thanks for the insight Toby. We don't need it in sprintcars, fullstop!
Sprint is super fun to watch because of how squirrelly they get!
Stay true to the roots!
A lot of drivers have tried it and don’t like it.
They’ve talked about it on some old episodes of Open Red.
Great job on the video’s. Love your work. Don’t like traction control, I hope they find a way to stop the cheats.
Yeah well said Toby, couldn’t agree more.
I was a huge Jeff Gordon fan, I watched him try to do a burnout after winning the race, couldn’t get 800 HP to spin the rear wheels. I believe it was Traction Control in its infancy in NASCAR.
The only move is to allow it in its own class, and write rules around it. Other benefit would be to freeze rules for the non-TC class to a more affordable level / no electronics allowed.
Been around in the states for years. I retired as a crew chief in 98 and it was here then. Then it could be activated remotely by using a cell phone. The top WoO teams had it...
First time I've heard of TC concerning dirt oval what the heck..
Well said mate
Thank you! It’s a subject that needs to be talked about and nothing else is out there. Stoked you enjoyed the video.
Officials could have a data recorder that they connect to a (random) car then later down-load to see what their timing was doing. I guess that all the MSD units are the same(?) so you could swop them from one car to another for the race meeting (and then give them back to the oridginal owner at the end of the night).
I agree with being able to adjust in the pits.. and if this is used.. there should be an LED light letting officials it is this or that.. once pushed off.. no changes.. even on reds..
Otherwise you will have cars pushing off to change timing slowing show down. Which this switch is taking the place of..
I agree 100% with your take on legality. A traction control rule would be so easy to enforce too. At least for now. Do your job, officials.
As a former official, I assure you its not simple. Finding the devices is rediculously difficult. Often, they are glued into the ignition box. It looks factory sealed with the rubberized muck and will test fine on a bench unless activated. You could look at logging ignition timing on suspected cars, but local tracks dont have money for data logging equipment. And time required would negatively affect the pacing of the show. One solution I've seen repeatedly offered is the track mandates standard wiring and owns all of the ignition boxes. The problem with this is cars from other localities, without your wiring. You either allow them in and potentially give them an unfair advantage, or turn them away. 2 cost. Maybe this one should be #1. Standardized boxes owned by the track would be many thousands of dollars. Call it 500 per box/wiring. In a 20 car field its 10 grand. Now do this across multiple classes, and it gets very expensive. Using the same boxes across multiple classes is a non-starter, fans wont sit there with no track action while boxes are pulled and installed on cars all night long. And racers would just find another way to achieve the same results. They would hide a tiny simple slew control somewhere in the car and jack it in to the igntion box the track provides, to retard timing if RPM is gained too quickly, denoting excess tire slip One that turns itself on after RPM goes through a certain regimen. Say 10 seconds at 3000 RPM. Resets when the ignition is turned off. Bluetooth can also enable disable and a crew member standing 50 feet away can perform the action. The wide variety of devices, activation etc. And time constraints of the track and keeping fans happy with non-stop action, is part what makes this all so very difficult. Im not for making it legal. That is the cop out. Lifetime ban? A local track doesnt have any teeth to make that happen anywhere else.. its an intractable issue.
Awesome vid. :)
Well said.
Legend, well done mate👍🏼🇦🇺
“Mad Man” just won Port Royal, do ya recon he used T/C 🇺🇸
Watch some of Donny Shatz races at Archerfield
I don't see where the 2 position system with switch out of the cockpit should be an issue. You could do the same thing with a timing light or the scale on the side of the Mag, it's just easier with less chance of a problem, making sure everyone gets back to racing.
Companies like Davis industries are killing dirt track racing. And it takes the driver out of the equation
Tag and seal systems are not perfect either. The same technology used for the seal is possible to be purchased from others. That was always a fear when I went go-kart nationals at Daytona. There were guys there with tractor trailer rigs for a GO-KART RACE! When I watched them seal my engine I thought how easy would it be to just buy kit to seal them myself? I could have a cheater motor to qualify and the legal one already for the Feature. Not saying anyone did that, but I sure didn't feel comfortable that the little seal was going to stop guys and gals from doing the ol' switch-a-roo.
Reutzel's secrets are getting out.
There is a simple fix, have all the competing teams each bring a MSD box (with there race car) then at the meet all of the boxes are gathered up by the head of tech and then one by one they are randomly handed back out to the teams so each team should get a random MSD box that they must run during the event and that box is kept with that team until the next event and so on!
Very good video. Thanks
Thanks for watching, Jim!
Where did you get your midget model from on the top right?
Also love the videos keep it up
If you're running out front, you're pushing the gray area in the rule book. To be honest, on traction control, a better car setup will crush a poor setup with TC.
I have to say, it's a difficult thing to get my head around - I'd have thought that (Especially on the smaller tracks we have here in Australia) that the last thing a driver would want would be the engine derating itself through a corner? Obviously it does work though, maybe the simple solution is to just go to a control MSD box
Sprintcars rely heavily on “wing speed”, meaning the faster they go, the more downforce is gained by the wing pushing down on the car harder.
When the track goes slick, the driver is unable to use the throttle as much because there is a lack of grip. With that lack of grip, the car is traveling much slower. A slower sprintcar means less wing speed.
Traction control enables the car to never spin the wheels unnecessarily, meaning they’re faster off a corner, gaining more speed on the straights and then making more use of the wing.
Hope this helps.
Thanks for the comment and support of SprintcarHub! 👍🏼
Hmm, ever wonder why it used to be difficult for drivers to master the bottom on tracks like Knoxville and Williams Grove when they slick off? It took drivers with great throttle control like Lasoski and Kreitz. Now anyone can do it. Traction control needs to be heavily policed with heavy penalties for those that get caught. Knoxville used to have a lifetime ban if you got caught. That was back when in the late 90's/early 2000's when it was first starting to be known. Now you don't hear of any tracks or sanctions even checking for it.
Yeah any car can run the bottom at knoxville they just don't wanna go fast. Haha sorry bro but 1 car ran the bottom. And stuck with it this year and that car won. I think if anyone can run the bottom as you claim then everyone would have been on the bottom at the end of the race
You don't give away the man, man!
Why not hand out random ignition boxes before the race?
Using a traction contol on a sprint car seems ridiculous Since all run a live rear axel and brakes on the left front, just how would one control in that configuration? If these cars are using a rev limiter that would affect traction only momentarily until the rpm slowed and then came back to below the rev limiter...
Thank you , nailed it
I’m designing a BT RF jamming device to counteract and would flatten the timing when they want it ,and spike power in traffic or induce dead pedal slide jobs and there not for sale !
Lol 😂 it sounds a lot like the TPS on my Dodge Cummins 5.9 that for six months I had this bizarre acceleration or hesitation then WOT and finally ending with the dreaded flat pedal at the worst possible time . If your from USA and you have owned a 3 gen you know what I’m talking about imagine trying to run sprint car ?
I did little 600cc minisprint racing. Saw a lot of guys using laptops on kawasaki 636 engines. What crap.
The only traction control should be suspension and tire tweaks
good video..... but it'll ruin the sport.... that's what is so good about it it's the DRIVER with a decent setup and throttle control.... leave it be...
Love the content but hate the insets
Electronics take the skill out of race driving. A driver isn't worth their money if electronics are involved in the vehicle control. As for motorcycles, the same holds true. Rider skill not electronics. However; two or four wheels, if electronics can make the vehicle safer in certain situations, it's up to the governing body & the Teams to have a discussion.
Agree👏👏👏👏👏
F1 isn't about technology, its about engineering. You'll find that anything considered a driver aid is banned in F1. The rules are the formula.
Brad sweet uses it. He uses the type that runs off hydraulic pressure that pulses the rear brake, it's far more popular in asphalt racing, but will work on a sprint car as well.
That type of system couldnt be any harder to hide. I have one still new in the box. The were also made by Davis
So im going to say your speculation and claim about an outlaw regular would be very very very hard to confirm.
Well said.
Is one of the three types of traction control used in Sprint Car racing the same type of traction control Jimmy Johnson used to win all those NASCAR Championships?...lol
The biggest problem in sprint car racing is the width of the rear tires. Cut the width by a third or half and put the drivers back in control.
How much for the 1/64 saldana on the shelf?
Definitely not for sale 😂 Thanks for asking though! Hope you enjoy the content.
-Toby
Lol been looking for that one for awhile and I don’t blame you!
How big of a diecast collection do you have?
Amen. Traction control ruins racing. If sprint car racing fails to police it, the sport suffers and becomes a pointless technological exercise. This is similar to the steroid era in American baseball. It *can* be policed - it's just a question of having the requisite will to protect the sport.
The steroid Era? That's a poor example. The steroid Era was (still is) probably the most exciting Era in baseball history.
If they allow traction control over here then the racing will be as boring as F1. If your caught running it then it should be a life ban for either the driver or car owner. Simple as that!
I certainly wouldn't mind seeing bans for whoever is caught!
@@SprintCarHub Well...... Gravel's big mouth let it slip, more than once, on his "Me Tour" Self-Promoting Videos.
So ........ Gravel, his family, his friends, and anybody who looks like him, should be indefinitely banned from Sprint Car Racing? Is that what you're saying?
I'm actually good with that. *_"Would you like that in a pump, or a loafer Mam?"_* I'd love to see Gravel selling shoes. Instead of his over-priced "ME" merchandise.
I know for a fact. Gary Wright had traction control@ Little Rock, Arkansas. In *_"The 2001 Short Track Nationals"_*
@@raymond3803 Gravel said he runs traction control in his videos?
@@SprintCarHub Yes sir. I think so. *"Crank Trigger Traction Control."* Here you go --> ua-cam.com/video/Y39umPuVn8k/v-deo.html
Don't you just love how Mr. personal jet 10-Time WoO Champion never gave back to his fans? No in-car camera. No behind-the-scenes. No anything.
Didn't seek publicity. Didn't need it. Didn't want it............ *ABOVE IT!*
Now that Schatz can't win dick. 25 years into his career. *OUT OF THE BLUE* We get a first time tour of the shop, hauler, & crew. ua-cam.com/video/xYNkC9cKgGs/v-deo.html
@@raymond3803 Might want to do a little more homework there champ. Yes Gravel mentions Crank Trigger a couple of times in that video but that doesn't mean he is refering to traction control. Crank trigger ignition does not mean traction control.
I've watched a lot of guys spend tons of money to have the very best equipment to race with but got their butts handed to them at the track. Not because they couldn't drive but because the elite teams have traction control. As a former racer I can almost tell you who has it and who doesn't. To me it's pretty obvious.
If they legalize it, it's no longer an "unfair advantage", since everyone will be able to use it. I, personally, think I'd like the sport better without it, so that the person has more control and takes more personal skill, but there is an argument to be made for a technological edge making a difference as well.
1:32 maybe a dumb question, but... you're racing on dirt, so how is there any tire wear?!
it isnt allowed in canada
What is tyre doping???? - referred to late in your video
Tyre softeners I'm guessing..?
They have chemicals to soften and make tires stickier often the chemicals claim faster lap times just like traction control claims. It is illegal to do in most sanctions.
Soak the tires in certain chemicals
Depends on series, chemicals or needling the tires( small holes) to allow tire to gain heat.
A black magic you will find performed in the secrecy of their ritual race shop. Many many brain cells have been killed in these ceremonies.
Joey Montgomery uses it
I got $$$ for info on what type device can be used to “zap” or detect tc in an msd box?? Help weed out this bs please…
This is not new, it has been going on for at least 20 years.
Fighting high tech is the same as the cheating of the old days with nitros etc.
Too bad a series of track to issue a sealed box to each team at each race.
Kyle Lar
Anyone who thinks that the "fast cars" at ANY track, ANYWHERE, in ANY devision aren't cheating are just naive. Always have and always will.
Cheating in racing is about as common as steering wheels. Yes, I mean just about everyone has cheated in racing, especially at the higher levels. I’m not saying it’s ok to cheat though.
let them all use it = a level playing field, it's not that expensive JMO
We call that cheating around here
Outlaws are NO LONGER Outlaws
My as well have all wheel drive !! This is stupid , and expensive !! Less drivers in the future, lots of cars for sale in Canada !! Future don't look bright !! Just expensive , so much for grass roots raceing !!✌
I'm a little late for this conversation.
But if it's not a safety function of the sprint car, then no. F1 doesn't have traction control or abs.
Traction control on dirt with a series racing many different tracks and track conditions is not a full proof weapon. If the track is not dry slick and smooth, theres hardly any benefit. Tire doping and limitless engine and tire budgets are way more effective.
They are going to water drown circle track racing into mandatory trophies for everyone who enters and has little talent.. Sprint and other related vehicles have always had "traction control"... It is called the driver and talent.... I swear, they are s!ssifying racing everywhere.. What is next? High speed drones following drivers and telling them by way of "AI" the best lanes and if other cars are overheating, or the other competitors are dehydrated so push it hard on them?
Sprint car racing is all about getting sideways! Driver ability is key, not technology.
Or......everyone could just drive the car!!
It's the same as tc on dirt bikes an road bikes..
Boring
Don't fix what is not broken
You want to see T.C. at it's finest ? Ducati in Moto-GP . If fuel , butter fly's , timing can't be moved around all at the same time you have nothing !! When you see a sprint car with fly by wire and no mechanical driven spark or fuel pump , you my friend are gone to get your butt kicked big time !!!!! This stuff they are selling isn't worth two rows of painters shit !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Everything today is a phoney version of what used to be real.
Why is it illegal to make a racing car faster shouldn't we embrace better technology. It's seems idiotic to purposely make things slower for racing.
Depends on the aim of the series. There are many where ABS, traction control etc are allowed. The series I race in they are allowed if they were standard on the road car the race is based on but not otherwise. Some series it's deemed that driver aids diminish the skill needed to race so are banned entirely. As with a lot of things in racing it comes down to whether the rules can be policed or not. Boggles my mind the lengths people will go to to cheat. Guess they find it easier to look at themselves in the mirror than I would.
@adematthewsracing true
Traction control on a sprint car will make boring racing and the day it's alowed is the the day I stop following and supporting sprint cars
Racing is rigged. Speedway is the worse no one cares about spoilt rich kids who’s dads own some sort of alcohol that like to go around in circles who all use the same engine builder. Seriously no one is interested it’s why there is about five people that watch it in a small designed crowed space so it’s not worth any money it’s like the concentration camp of car racing.
What should be banned is stupid noises and gimmicks in UA-cam videos.
Thanks for watching :)
I hope they are never legalised
Me too!
Donny schatz had it for years and nobody did shit about it and he won and won and won,and now the last 3 years of his driving you notice how he is clearly not the same driver without it????? Woo could not afford to lose him at the transition time of Steve retiring they needed a new top dog a new king so to speak so they let him get 200 wins with it and let it slide but nobody in woo will ever admit the truth about Schatz getting caught with it and more importantly turning cold shoulder to the situation. Schatz is clearly a different driver without it though. I like Schatz and think he is a great guy but he cheated for years. But if you are not cheating then your not trying!!!
Schatz still seemed to get to 300 wins in 2021... Smoke won one this summer because the leader blew the RR tire in the 4th turn headed to the checkers. To finish first, one must first finish.
How do you know for sure you a pit Stewart, you seen it on his car , you race with him . Or you just a bleacher creature?? They do look and pick the cars apart tech wise ! Lol WoW you say dont police this , they seem to in dirt latemodels lil for it .
@@chadalac1977 really dude this was well known and what cause you didn't know it makes it wrong or something?Bobby Jackson long time woo official was given the mob treatment if he went public cause it was best for the sport so the woo said at the time. This is old news
Lame as.
Thanks for taking the time to watch and comment!
How about we ban all forms of traction control, thus negating the usefulness of thousand-horsepower engines and ultimately making racing cheaper?
If you ban something with no way of policing it, all you have done is open up the class to cheaters. Most of the series that allow it have done so not to make the racing better but to make it more fair since they have no way of enforcing it, so just make it legal, problem solved.
Note: There are ways to police traction control but that often requires allowing other things you don't want to allow (like data logging) or would require tracks/sanctioning bodies to invest in more inspection equipment and more knowledgeable inspectors.