What is Forced Diversity? | A Response to The Dishonoured Wolf
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- Опубліковано 9 вер 2024
- Hello Mr. Wolf, I've been expecting you.
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IN TODAY'S POLITICAL CLIMATE
WE LIVE IN A SOCIETY
KIDS NOWADAYS.
IT'S CURRENT YEAR
it be like that. Here's an obligatory reminder about the, in this context, og Mary Sue: Luke Skywalker.
Another reactionary righty hipster wordshittery strikes again.
You know what, I'm gonna say it, I don't think that guy is actually a wolf.
You win. You win at writing comments. Good job.
On all levels except physical,,
@@qualifiedarmchaircritic VINE REFERENCE
He's not a wolf?!
WAIT REALLY? OMFG I THOUHT HE WAS A WOLF HEJRFBFBBFFB
Why. is. it. always. Gamers.
Because we won't stand for the silencing of our oppression anymore, while made up oppression gets amplified! GAMERS! RISE! UP!
Gamers rise up
Makes me sad to play video games and go on video game forums. The "gamer" mantle is absolutely poisoned by corporations and now weird internet politics.
B O T T O M T E X T
@@DASding148 exactly how are gamers being oppressed and what is this fake oppression you speak of?
"Becoming a better shot than a storm trooper."
Okay let's get one thing straight for you? Stormtroopers cannot hit protagonists. This is a known fucking fact.
This is LITERALLY A MEME I cannot believe he actually criticized this
Military school doesn't teach you how to kill a main character with an ongoing arc
Stormtroopers having terrible aim is a problem though.
I mean, I barely played any shooter game, and as soon as I got back to a shooter game, I thought I was rusty as fuck, and then I got 5 kills
@@meris8486it’s been that way for over 40 years since the very beginning of the franchise. They’re mooks.
3:18 wolf daddy
3:25 Musky Husky
4:28 Prince Fuzzybutt
5:26 Red Rocketeer
5:55 fluffboi
6:57 *notices bugle*
8:10 smart puppy
10:19 pupper
13:29 wolfy
I found it!!!
I lost it at "Red Rocketeer".
You missed
3:18 Wolf daddy
5:55 Fluffboi
13:29 Wolfy
EDIT: oh neat, you added them
None of these were good points
I fucking lost it at Red Rocketeer
i like the part where ripley is pregnant with an alien and there isn't any symbolic implication
I've never seen the movie, but that kind of threw me off, because all the interpretations of it I read mentioned this symbolism. "Wait, how does her sex *not* matter? I thought it was the point of the movie!"
And her gender is not "a focal point of the story" despite the Alien being explicitly written and depicted as a violent phallic monster and Ripley's entire protective and destructive mother vs mother story arc with Newt in Aliens.
*shrugs
=8)-DX
or the part in aliens where they reveal to her that her daughter is dead and she ends up being an adoptive mother to newt
This was my immediate reaction
@hue Giger explicitly based it on genitals.
If we're talking about diversity in Star Wars, wouldn't it be *FORCE* diversity?
I'll Show myself out
I'm sick of all these SJW trying to force push diversity into my star wars, like some kinda jedi mind trick, they make everything about gender and pod-race, its bull sith
Get back in here and look at what you've done
I will clap once, for you actually did make an actual joke.
*clap*
bad jokes are good!
Force yourself out
Everybody gangsta till the furry character crossed their arms
Theese nazi furs give normal furries a really bad name.
@Garfield is Awesome Nobody wants you here, reactionary.
@@cn2673 In what concevable way that dosn't also go for trans people?
@@cn2673 What have furries done to look bad? They just enjoy wearing suits. I don't see where this hostility comes from.
@@cn2673 I would like a study proving that there are alot of people who support it. Cuz I have never encountered it.
"It's an objective fact that your favourite movie would have been better if the main character was gay." Well, my favourite movie is Goodfellas, so at least in my case that statement is 100% accurate.
I just imagined "Spirited Away" with a gay Chihiro, and like... she's not wrong!
😅
My favorite movie is Persepolis, honestly having the main character being queer would have made sense.
My favorite movie is Trainspotting, and Mark Renton is bisexual lol
My favorite movie is Shrek
Maybe you go into this but Ripley being female is... actually kind of a huge deal, isn't it? Like, the Alien franchise deals with themes of motherhood a LOT.
Like it's funny because I'd argue Ripley's gender is a MUCH bigger influence on her character than Rey's.
@Madalin Grama Ripley was originally a man in the script. Scott made the character female to add variety. So in the first movie, her gender is unimportant, but she's a very clear case of forced diversity. This is ignoring the fact that her being a woman has a strong narrative purpose in the two sequels that followed.
And yet, people loved her. The fact that she was a woman WAS a pretty big deal, actually. That was a big talking point with the film when it came out, and I doubt the franchise would be nearly as revered if she was male.
@@uknownada If you live by the fact of Forced Diversity you miss the point of LIFE.
Its not fucking forced. We exist, naturally! We do a lot of things.
So why is it forced in media? Because you guys dont actually want diversity.
NOTE: I’ve only just realized, after finishing my little fuckin essay of a comment, that I’m responding to a year-old question. But if you or anyone comes across this a year later, I still think it’s important stuff. So I’ll leave it anyway.
Yes and no. I know I didn’t make the video, but I actually know a bit about this, so I’ll give what knowledge I can.
Alien was written as an allegory for sexual assault, mostly. The director, a man who understands how sexual assault works and that it’s bad and traumatic, wanted to create a metaphor that would draw men in and make the concept of sexual assault more widely understandable to more men. It does deal with motherhood in a sense, but only really in the same way that it also deals with themes of manipulation, paranoia, and the feeling of being trapped and silenced (in space, no one can hear you scream). So Ripley didn’t necessarily *need* to be female for the motherhood themes to be understood. The movie catered to men and tried to make a real-life issue more clear specifically to men (not to say that women can’t understand and enjoy Alien on a subtextual level too, they certainly can and do). The xenomorph is not a male character. Ridley Scott, in his movie about how men assault women and it’s scary and horrible, didn’t make the sexual predator stand-in a male. Matter of fact, the xenomorph is canonically female. But that’s not the point. The point is that it’s huge, fast, smart, and predatory. It’s the perfect predator. It’s overwhelmingly capable at what it does. I say all this only to give another example as to why the specific genders of most of these characters don’t matter in a narrative context. Likewise, Ripley doesn’t need to be female. She could’ve been male, and achieved the same subtextual goal, which was to endure. If a man had played her part, it may have even furthered Scott’s goal to help men better understand sexual assault and all that comes with it. But I don’t think Ripley’s being female really detracts from that goal enough for it to be an issue.
In the context of movies and horror media in general, however, having Ripley be played by a woman is *incredibly* important. Very few women, at that time (and now too, if we’re being honest), were being cast in roles that gave them agency and portrayed them as powerful and competent. Writing Ripley as a genderless character allowed for less bias in creating a story with them as the protagonist. Nobody was going to fall too deep into the traps of female objectification or helplessness. And it worked, for the most part. And that’s fucking rad. It’s a little sad that Ridley Scott had to make a genderless template in order to avoid sexist producers objectifying the character for marketing and appeal, but it’s good that it worked as well as it did. Alien is a phenomenal movie, and Ripley’s being a woman only really adds to how great it is.
uknownada Forced diversity really isn’t that much of an extant thing, though. And Ripley wasn’t a man in the script, she just didn’t have a gender until Sigourney Weaver auditioned and got the part. Scott didn’t make her female for variety. He made her female because the actor he liked best happened to be a woman. He didn’t want to limit his casting options by assigning a gender to the character. He just wanted to see, in the biggest pool of people he could gather, who did the part the most justice. And it happened to be a woman. You’re right to say that Ripley’s being female was important in a societal context, but I’m not sure about the rest. I think the franchise would’ve done fine, financially, with a male protagonist. It may have even sold better, honestly. But casting Ripley as female is definitely powerful in that outside way. And I do think the folks involved in the following Alien movies probably capitalized on Ripley as being female.
But my main point is, it wasn’t forced diversity at all. It was a woman doing a good job reading for a character, and subsequently getting the part. That’s it.
I'm entertained by the fact that he claimed Ripley's gender doens't ever come up despite the the themes of sexual assault in Alien and motherhood in Aliens. Like it may have been an arbitrary decision at first but they clearly ran with it and made something of it
because they're sequels and he's not talking about them?
Well, first of all, that completely clashes with Patricia's point that Ripley is a bad example because she was made female at the casting stage. Like you said, clearly they ran with it and made something of it, so why does it matter when Ripley was made female?
Second of all, I believe Wolf was not talking about a gender-relevant themes like motherhood, but stuff like a character being better than other characters because of their gender. He just phrased what he meant poorly.
@@TheRedHaze3was it even in the film that Rey was better than the others explicitly because of her gender? (Genuinly asking)
I only remember her just being badly written but I can't remember if there was a connection between that and her gender
@@TedBilk It's more that a male character would never be written like Rey in Hollywood in 2023.
Damn, I didn't know the next Alpha and Omega movie could go even further downhill
wolf reviews the alpha and omega films, also wolf has brains, you wouldnt knos that from this video
o u c h. tbis has to be the most savage burn ive ever read.im still crying as i read this. unironically im not sure wolf can recover.
Roxy Lalonde this makes no sense, and wolf's response to this acid trip of a video by erix is golden
TheGuyWhoLikesThings Yeet Alpha and Omega fan here. We don’t want him XD!
"If Hollywood wants more diversity in their films, then they should just do it."
-The Woke Wolf
#gamersriseup
Not that that isn't true, but. This argument always seems to ignore that a) minorities and women ARE doing that, all the time in every medium and genre, b) convincing people to agree with you and join your projects is often the first step of actually doing them, and c) especially in the medium of film, you really can't go it alone. The budget for Ghostbusters 2016 was 144 million USD. You can't get that much money from all the sjws on Kickstarter.
Then why is he here complaining about it. I'm so confused
What are you gamers rising for?
@@soiboi4497 soy boy
The Dark Master The Dark Master what’s wrong with soy?
5:53 He talks about "people of colour being unrealistic" as it's a retelling of a ww2 battle ignoring the fact that Jamaica and other british colonies fought alongside Britain...
In Europe?!
Dionysos 1984 yeah, most British colonies had soldiers fighting in Europe, from Canada to india to Australia to Jamaica. They were all part of the British empire and so were called in to defend Britain. Over 87,000 soldiers from India alone were killed in the WW2.
@@Dionysos-gx6we yes, indian mule drivers were part of the British Expeditionary Force that was evacuated at Dunkirk, and several divisions of the Indian Army fought in Italy. IIRC there were also French Senegalese troops active in Europe
It´s interesting that diverse cast in historical movies are such an important point with how much "accurate" they usually are.
Dionysos 1984 Yes for example while at the Battle of Dunkirk while all the White Englishmen and French troops were being evacuated Black French soldiers where buying time for the troops being evacuated.
HEY HEY HOLD UP *H O L D UP!!!*
In Rey's defense, storm trooper can't shoot anyone, even if they where right in front of them, so Rey shooting him immediately makes sense.
Not really just because someone is terrible at something doesn't make you excellent at it
Imagine if tomorrow they invented the sport of flimphong and you were pitted against someone who sucked at it does that make you instantly good?
Finn has the exact same training as them yet he can hit every non plot important Stormtrooper.
ua-cam.com/video/P2TA9coGLzM/v-deo.html
Ok, now explain all of his other points
Bro never played Lego StarWars... smh
"Your favorite movie would be better if the main character were gay"
Let me tell you about a little film called "Into the Biderverse"
Hey.
I don't know if I should be happy with the thought of it, or sad that it will never happen.
I always get skeptical of a youtube ranter whose only sprite expressions are "dead inside" and "disgusted." Not that those aren't valid expressions
Except for IHE, I like him.
Seriously! When will people learn that being grumpy does not constitute a personality?
@@uhetsberger I mean, instead of being a furrie that only has these characteristics as a personality, IHE actually builds an entire persona around them. And despite his name, he actually likes things sometimes.
Same for anyone who has a skull or gasmask for their profile pic.
Remake all movies, but all the characters gotta be gay.
I now eagerly await the Star Wars reboot where Luke and Han smash.
Brokeback Mountain with two straight guys
I cannot wait for the exact shot for shot remakes of the cornetto trilogy
Luke Skywalker is already a twink and Princess Leia should reign as the lesbian icon she's meant to be
Your name implies you tell jokes, but instead you state the obvious. You had one job.
What do you mean black people arnt a recent thing? Everyone knows they were invented in the 1900s, every reference to them before that was just people in costumes.
Everyone was white before Joseph Diversity invented minorities in 1923.
I fail to see where the "She is OP because she is female" part in the star wars example...?
Isn't it just ... She is OP, therefore not a fun character...?
1:44 "The fact that she's female is never brought to the forefront" (proceeds to show clip of Ripley acting as protective mama-bear maternal-figure to surrogate daughter-figure).
And the whole thing can be read as a rape pregnancy allegory.
@@enfercesttout
No it can't if you never learned how to read messages in art
Honestly, Ripley's womanhood is a much larger part of her character than Ray's womanhood is of hers
@Blockbird Yes it can be. Great argument btw.
Or how the xenomorphic has pretty much a rape allegory since the first film.
"The fact that she's female is never brought to the forefront"
Yeah imagine a character being lauded by their masculinity right? At least we don't do that!
wait shit
You say that like he said he didn't have a problem with that.
@@captainangel1078 He implied it with his whole attitude towards Mary Sues, calling them the c-word among other things. He made it such a gendered argument, when he could have just said he was mad that he thought Rey was poorly-written. I doubt he would have a fraction of that hostility toward a masculine male character.
@@dagnytheartist Mary sue. Thats the term for Overpowered female characters. Gary Sue. Thats the term used for Overpowered male Characters. If Rey was overpowered but Male I'm sure he'd call him a Mary sue instead. It had nothing to do with gender.
LMAO!!!!!
@@dagnytheartist Ever heard of Gary Stue?
"Red Rocketeer" I nearly choked on my goddamn hash browns, that is such a deep cut that I bet most of your audience didn't catch
I missed the part of TFA where Hagrid bursts in and is like "You're a woman, Rey" and suddenly Rey realizes she's good at everything. Seriously, even if Rey is a Mary Sue, how is that because she's a woman??
Because if she was male she's be a Gary stu
Nobody said Rey is a bad character because she is a woman. Please read earlier response for more on that.
But yeah...in a work of fiction, a female implausibly talented and special and perfect is a Mary Sue, whereas a Male implausibly talented and special and perfect is a Gary Sue
@@Ausumist That's the theory, but the reality is that if a male character is implausibly good at everything and special, people just call him the hero.
@@Lost-Lilim no in reality people still would still them a Gary stu hell people still call Superman a Gary stu even tho he hasn't been since the silver age
TreytheGamerwolf actually people just call Superman boring. You’ll occasionally see someone refer to characters like him as Sues, but 90% of the time when someone talks about a Sue they’re talking about Rey. Not because she’s such a perfect example that you don’t need any other examples but rather because internet discourse focuses so heavily on her being a Sue that it is both, the first person most people think of when they think of Mary Sues, and the main problem with the character.
Basically no one focuses on any other of Rey’s strengths or weaknesses because they’re too busy focusing on this one point and how it apparently fundamentally single handily ruins both the character and the franchise.
None of this is to say that Rey/Superman/Sues are or are not good characters or good for stories, it is simply to say that their is a reason, however good or bad it may be, why people will assume “Rey is a Mary Sue” is just code for “Rey is a female protagonist”, and that is because it’s all they ever hear about her, and all they ever hear about Sues.
“Rey being a woman is her only character trait” her gender is never brought up once up those movies tho???
So easy it is to criticize Rey by saying "Yes, the character does not have a progressive scale of development due to the tendency of the story, so far, to make her win every confrontation with the main villain of her story, to the point of leaving the situation without any level of tension or conflict
That linked to the idea that this trilogy does not maintain a constant narrative nucleus or an imposing threat (Since the main villain of the trilogy has been easily defeated multiple times by someone without training). What leaves Rey and her status as the compelling hero of history, as a cheap prize for participation, that is, empty of meaning.
Since at the end of the day, the hero-villain relationship and the balance of threat, development and tension, is what makes a really memorable story".
To say that Rey is a bad character because she is forced diversity is ridiculous. It was a good premise to have Rey as the protagonist, but the lack of a good threat leaves everything insipid (Kylo is not a good villain, he could be a good secondary villain, but as I said, his tendency to lose destroyed everything).
@@JMTgpro So it has nothing to do with diversity is what you're saying.
@@uknownada No, it goes beyond just one character.
@@JMTgpro oh I see. One minority is just fine. Two minorities? Well, that's just going too far. Clearly they're not thinking about talent, even though they clearly thought about talent.
@@uknownada Are we misinterpreting?
It has nothing to do with "diversity", is just that the trilogy is badly thought from its narrative center, lack of tension, conflict, real narrative or themes.
I know this video is ~4 years old, but I think there's an interesting potential analysis to be made about "What the hell is forced diversity even supposed to be?"
Like, I mean think about it. What about a character like Rey is "forced" diversity? She's a women? Well clearly that's not "forced," she could just as well be a dude, or some random alien. And there's never a plot point where her being a women is integral to the story in a contrived way, and there's never a point where her poorly written powers connect to her being a woman. So what exactly is being - narratively - "forced" here by her being a woman? And even if you want to ask on a meta-level why a woman was cast for the role, why not? What benefit would there be in restricting the casting to men? What would that change about the scripts?
When you approach it like this, the entire argument collapses. You cannot try and justify the existence of the term "forced diversity" if you don't inherently see the over-saturation of white men in movies as some sort of "normal" that shouldn't be changed. If the only way that you can justify non-cishet white men being in a film is via some illuminati-level Hollywood conspiracy, then you fundamentally don't accept that non-cishet white men can (or perhaps even should) be cast in films. And while doubtlessly some schmuck could whine about how, on some impermeable abstract level, this is a mindset that is destroying films, it's a clear front to try and disguise these complaints as being based in some form of legitimate criticism.
This. It's impossible to "force" diversity because it kind of just exists naturally. Anyone who uses the term forced diversity is just outing themselves as someone who thinks that straight white characters are the "normal" state of things. And that's just not true.
Yeah idk, when I really thought about it I was like "wait, what about this is forced?" The only real thing I can think about in my mind that counts as forced diversity is like what Disney does where they'll have like a gay couple kissing in the background that they can easily edit out
Wolf actually explained what he meant in his original video and in Efap’s response to this video. Wolf’s reasoning for why Rey is force and Ripley wasn’t was that JJ Abrams said Rey had to be a woman and that meant to Wolf as JJ trying to meet a quota instead of going for acting skill
ok liberal
@@teejay9189 me when I don't have a good argument to fight back:
I’m sorry did this man just argue that stormtroopers are good marksmen
@@ckai6409 u ok sir?
@@ckai6409
That's pretty stupid actually.
Because the Stormtroopers are *SUPPOSED* to be highly trained soldiers, but because we like to see the heroes look cool and win all the time, they're made to not be able to hit the broad side of a barn, which is dumb.
@@ckai6409
Oh, ok. Sorry.
@@ckai6409
You too.
I agree that a lot of the issues with "Forced Diversity" can be summarized as just poor writing.
We already agree Tokenism and shallow poorly researched portrayals of minorities are bad.
But I think a reasonable complaint underlying forced diversity (from anyone that isn't an idiot at least, which it's possible is only me) is the idea that diversity is being used as a gimmick to compensate for bad writing, not that the writing is bad because of the diversity.
Shouldn't we be upset at the bad writing itself? Just because diversity in a story doesnt make it well written by default doesnt mean that any bad writing should be framed as related to the diversity in question. I mean, a story being lazily written and propped up on a few good elements isnt exactly cause to be frustrated towards those few good elements. Seems to me that those elements should be in the "positives" of tthe film and not defined by their relationship to the "negatives" unless they're directly related. And to me, diversity and bad writing,, aren't related.
@@notswush Sure, we shouldn't act like diversity is the bad thing in itself, that's my point.
Thing is that I'm not complaining about the diversity, I'm complaining about the fact that people seem to lower their standards whenever diversity happens and bring it up in defence of the thing as a whole rather than an isolated good element in an overall shitty piece of media :v
I guess I just mean,, a bad movie can have good representation, and that changes how people watch it, and the film's significance to those people. And after all, isnt a film's purpose sometimes to emotionally connect with people? I wouldnt say a film like black panther is a *complete* failure, even if I hated everything else about it, simply because it means a lot to some people despite those things.
@@notswush no, because you're not addressing why that bad writing happens (Diversity)
Rule of thumb, if you ever find yourself saying the phrase “anyone that isn't an idiot […] which it's possible is only me” it's introspection o'clock
Here, a reactionary dictionary:
Bad movie, positive to diversity -> forced diversity
Bad movie, negative to diversity -> bad movie
Good movie, positive to diversity -> SJW propaganda
Good movie, negative to diversity -> good movie
Sylvester Dark that is such an grossly over generalization of the whole thing that I don’t even know how to respond.
Sylvester Dark they really do think like this huh. I hope you don't mind if I add that these types of people only hold movies to extremely high standards when they are diverse, but then claim to not have problems with diversity.
@@ioncekilledamanwithmyshoe Then learn to make a point. I suggest you start with old stuff. Like greek philosophers. Don't worry there is not that much forced diversity in it so you should not be annoy by their shallow practice, they only use culturaly honest diversity, like Ripley. But just in case, some of them might be gay (and here is the flaw in their logic), there is even one who tried to educate a slave! What a gross idea. It is like trying to speak with an SJW!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logos
@@alberttaco3668 lets read some quotes from kant.
1- ‘The race of the whites contains all talents and motives in itself.’
2- ‘The Hindus … have a strong degree of calm, and all look like philosophers. That notwithstanding, they are much inclined to anger and love. They thus are educable in the highest degree, but only to the arts and not to the sciences. They will never achieve abstract concepts.
3- 'The race of [racist slur]… [is] full of affect and passion, very lively, chatty and vain. It can be educated, but only to the education of servants, ie, they can be trained.’
@@AbdallahTeach then read some Bourdieu
Pierre Bourdieu disagrees with Kant's idea of the "aesthetic". He argues that Kant's "aesthetic" merely represents an experience that is the product of an elevated class habitus and scholarly leisure as opposed to other possible and equally valid "aesthetic" experiences which lay outside Kant's narrow definition
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aesthetics
I didn't really like Thor: Ragnarok, and I was looking around for negative reviews of the movie to reaffirm my opinion and the only one I found was by Dishonored Wolf.
His criticism of the film boiled down to "VALKYRIE SUCKS BECAUSE SHE'S BLACK AND A WOMAN" and "JEFF GOLDBLUM'S FUCKING GAY AND LOKI SUCKED HIS DICK" and he called Heimdall the N-word. Yeah.
I personally love Dishonered Wolfs content often, the video this response is to is fantastic and I agree with it as do the massive majority of ppl, there’s a reason the like to dislikes are off on this video.
ah yes, centrism
@@markwheeler4245 Yes, certainly the like and dislike ratio on a UA-cam video is a worthwhile, valid and not at all easily abused measure by which to rate a video's quality, and certainly not subject to brigading by the rabidly immature fanbases of other, deeply insecure youtubers who know that if you give even a few minutes of critical thought to any of the thesis they posit, they'll crumble faster than grabbing a centuries-old roll of toilet paper. It is a perfect system beyond reproach, and requires no deconstruction or analysis of the video's message, content or arguments.
Truly, we as a species have finally attained the means to achieve flawless consensus. Praise be.
TPoseCulture I stand by my comment! Turning comments off is very telling
@@markwheeler4245 turning comments off is, but disabling the like to dislike ratio is not.
Also, their points are pretty succinct, I don't see what's wrong with them. Wolf is saying forced diversity is bad and gives Rey as an example. Patricia says that most examples of forced diversity, including Rey, are really just examples of bad writing, and have nothing to do with diversity. Substitute almost any bad female/POC/LGBTQ character that was accused of "forced diversity" with a straight white male. They don't suddenly become a good character. If Rey were male, that wouldn't explain her overpowered-ness.
Not trying to be rude here, I'm just saying that I politely disagree with Wolf.
**notices forced diversity** OwO
UwU whats this?
hewwo I hate women and minowites. owo
Getting excited over an objectively bad thing. Alright then.
Nephi Nelson issa joke dude
*At the beginning of my sjw rekt cringe compilation* H-Hewwwo? *subtly looks at my subscription button and bell icon* owo whats this?
What're ya talking about? Of course Rey is an example of Forced Diversity, she's a female protagonist that uses the force!
Lol
*insert rolling of eyes that can't really be done in text form*
She's still a horrible character don't get that mixed up.
I like this comment
*cough* Ahsoka being one of the most beloved SW characters ever *cough* including for the people hate Rey and Disney Star Wars *cough*
Except Ripley being female is an essential part of her character since one of the core themes of Aliens is motherhood. Ripley lost a daughter to time, spending 50 years inside a cryopod in an attempt to escape an alien. She learns to become a mother again by protecting a little girl named newt who’s parents were killed by the aliens. She’s also super independent, as she’s always questioning the actions of any higher authority and often makes choices in defiance of them.
Rey is the exact opposite in fact she’s super codependent of other people give the fact that she was abandoned by her parents when she was a child. She’s constantly looking for others to tell her what she has to do, and what path she needs to follow rather than following her own path. She constantly looking for a guide in everyone she meets, Han, Luke and of course Kylo. She learns to make her own choice and follow her own path by the end of the movie.
i know this comment is 8 months old, but i could not believe my eyes when Wolf was arguing this... with footage of Ripley holding a little girl playing in the background. I was genuinely flabbergasted.
They should have adapted "Ghost busters EXTREME" instead of the one they made. Extreme has a Goth woman and a guy in a wheel chair as their cast. That show was seriously ahead of their time. But then again both Extreme and the Real Ghost busters were cartoons and I personally think that live action remakes of cartoons are inherently bad because you sacrifice the medium that lead to the success of the original.
Do you seriously think being a cartoon is what makes cartoons successful, or at least a vital part of what leads to their success? I mean, you can argue that some cartoons owed their success to the cartoon medium, but you can't really say that it's inherent to all cartoons.
@@Ponera-Sama Ducktales would be sooo much better if it were made like cats: just people with fake beaks on their faces. Yes ofc the animation is what people like on cartoons smh.
Hey hey hey hear me out
R-rated animated movie from the Extreme Ghostbusters with a darker and more mature themes
@@L0LWTF1337 again, I can agree with you that Ducktales would be worse if it was live action, but that is not true for every cartoon (read: cartoons where the characters aren't furries).
You're forgetting...that was in our childhoods! So it's nostalgic, it gets a free pass!
That's how these people work right?
Rey's a better shot than a Stormtrooper? I guess that means she can hit a broad side of a barn from 3 meters.
Wow, what an accomplishment!
I saw that part and was like "wtf aren't stormtroopers infamous in pop culture for their terrible aiming?"
Ikr tfa actually made Storm troopers more competent than previous star wars movies.
@Mawichan Doodles in pop-culture, yes they are notorious for having bad aim (mainly due to not wanting to kill the protagonists early and therefore giving them plot armour), but in the story itself they are supposed to be the best, most well trained soldiers in the galaxy. Obi Wan also mentioned in A New Hope how precise Stormtroopers are at shooting.
It's because wolf boo doesn't know his pop culture.
Guitardudeling Informed Character Trait
“Crippled.” Good lord.
That's gonna be a "yikes" from me.
Also, when a guy brought up Rey's Sueness and just started regurgitating shot about it, I shrugged and said ' I see male Mary sue characters all the time so it is not a really big deal to me. It is just bad writing .' dunno why he had not thought of that.
I swear, like, half of all male characters in existence are Gary Stus.
@@BlackSheepNara like who?
red dash most of them also get criticised as well
"Everybody does that. I mean, I cant point at that "everybody" but I'm sure they do"
red dash Poe in the force awakens.
MY GOD - I just realized how good it feels that every shoddily-written white male character doesn't spur on discussion of whether they were "justified" in being white or male, or how their whiteness & maleness *ruined* a whole film because it was "forced."
I'm sorry for all you sisters, and brothers of different phenotypes.
Because racism always works the exact same way, and there is no place on the planet where the ratios of different kinds of people are different.
@@J1428753 what is that supposed to even mean?
Yeah, kind of weird how bad whyte characters or bad whyte male characters are never as focused on in the way other bad characters are, or ever have their identity blamed as the reason why it's bad. Also it's weird how the solution seems to be implied to remove non-whyte characters instead of simply improving them. Non of these people would ever say change the race of a whyte character just cause they think they're badly written.
@@Scoring57 it's spelled white
@@Scoring57 Urm you people spend your time doing that.
I'm laughing too hard at "notices bugle", please help, the horn is too funny.
i needed a whole ass 10min pause to deal with the existence of that dude who thinks there were no black people in world war II
Ok, they were. But not in USSR. Then try to imagine that there's a film with black man in soviet army. And the only reason he's there is otherwise a film will be accused to be racist or it will be discussed that way on public media.
@@bxp_bass this.
@@bxp_bass and it wouldn't even be the most historically inaccured movie still. Like not even close.
@Joce Almighty did you just say black people are an "aesthetic choice?" wow. XD
@@BigHailFan, no, he didn’t mean it in that way, stop trying to fucking twist his words. What he is saying is, choosing black people to play roles in a World War II movie would be an aesthetic choice because it would make little to no impact on the action, of what is happening on the screen, instead of a white guy firing his weapon and killing a few soldiers it would be a black guy firing his weapon and killing a few soldiers, it makes no difference, unless the movie was about a “coloured” unit in WWII like the Tunguskee airmen in the movie Red Tails or the 369th Infantry Regiment, known as the Harlem Hellfighters, if the film was about WWI.
I missed the part when Everyone was like "wow Rey you are a woman and therefore you are good" in TFA
Same, must have been refilling my pop corn
you mean the best part
Legit they mentioned her gender maybe arguably twice with "the droid is with the girl" and "you got a boyfriend, a cute boyfriend?" (altho Finn would have a crush regardless lol, him bisexual) - or possibly when Finn kept holding her hand to assuage his own fears (but again he'd have done that anyway).
and that had nothing to do with abilities or anything.
Almost like if some people are full of shit
@@carysbebard3690 I pray for Bi Finn every day. (Stormpilot for the win! Tho I know it won't happen. Sadly.)
I honestly think San junipero would have not been nearly as strong with a straight couple.
what does that tell you
Well the premise required one of the leads to be outcasted from her family due to her being gay. If you made it that the family was racist and outcasted her because of that, the same conflict could've been credible and the story could be of the same quality.
So what your saying is straight are inherently less important then homosexual people?
@@ThomasHendrickson i dont think theyre saying that.. like at all, but..AS A STRAIGHT WOMAN(TM), i do believe part of the magic of the story is the added exploration of inhibitions and sexuality. Calm your farm.
@@fruitylerlups530 I was so excited to find a respectful person to debate with and learn from as I read your comment until you added that dumbass remark at the end. Calm my farm? Get off your high horse.
Also something to note is that "diversity" in this context is used almost exclusively to mean representation of minorities, not any other type of diversity.
Tarantino's inglorious bastards is a masterpiece in diversity of thought. It has tons of nazis in it.
Valter Östberg iDeoLogIcAl DivErSitY
@@enfercesttout OMG you are so bad 😂
I've always found that strange tbh. Like there should be so much more to a character than their race/sexuality etc. No matter who's talking, leftie or rightie, it's always about these things. There are so many ways a character could be diverse other than them not being a straight white male. You could have a diverse cast comprised of white females and a similar cast comprised of people of all different races and sexualities. I'm a queer black female. Those things have very little to do with who I am as a whole, yet it's what qualifies as diverse. Obviously I have no problem with seeing more minorities on screen, and I think that this concept of "forced diversity" is dumb as shit (for the most part anyway) I just believe this whole notion of what diversity means these days is stupid. Things like race, sexuality and gender identity hold too much importance in society when really they have little to do with what sort of person you are as a whole. Ok I've gone on a whole tangeant here but I've been wanting to say that for a while lmao.
representation, dotn you mean Insertion
Centrism: does not research any of the policies or ideas of either side, writes them off as the same evil.
Dude, at least centrists are not clearly biased and force down their opinions on you like they’re fact
Actually, we think both sides have good points. Centralists do nothing but look into political points of both sides and disregard things like Bias and Extremists and keep open minds on things. We just want both parties to talk to each-other and actually listen to what their saying.
@@jacknagel9387 Thank you
@@toonboy2041 No problem
Centrism: *Exists*
Jreg: *TRIGGERED*
Truly we do live in a society.
furries rise up
That's deep bro
@@prageruwu69 No. Please, don't. One is enough.
A society, where a civilised, respected community has now become a fantasy!
@@ulfberht4431 ...it's has always been a fantasy. A delusion, even worse.
What's with reactionaries and animal personas? Serious question.
only straight furries are reactionaries, gay furries are all radical leftists
At least gay furries do weed
Eric Taxxon Id say thats actually pretty accurate
As a gay furry, you're not wrong.
Most likely it denotes them being alpha" you know alpha wolf, alpha bear, alpha kangaroo or alpha pigeon. The only true alpha as we all know is the golden one ask contra points.
I’m totally against the concept of forced edgy furries
I am totally pro.
I'm against the concept of furries in general tbh
I’m only against it if it’s a full grown person and not a child going through a phase and expressing themselves
@@Rat-ld8xu I'm more against the fetish side of furries
J a y d o o d l e s that’s called yiff, it’s the nsfw side of the fandom, they have a lot of separate terms like “murr” and usually keep to themselves. A lot of furries are kids just getting into art or social outcasts that find refuge in a mask. It’s always been a safe haven for LGBT people, people with anxiety, and people with autism, a lot of skilled people that have nowhere else to show their talents (dancing, art, comedy, music). Idk why people want to shoot up our conventions or do drugs in the parking lot but we aren’t that bad. Conventions that went bad were caused by political discourse tearing apart the staff, every community has its bad people that don’t have social awareness, and they weren’t being stopped because of the lack of staff.
There are two races: white and “political”. There are two genders: male and “political”. There are two sexual alignments: hetero and “political”. There are two neurological states: neurotypical and “political”.
this is a good comment
Bob Newby Superhero I don’t get it
Captain America: civil war would make more sense if Captain America and Winter Soldier were gay
Nicholas Beni implying there not already? 🤣
Eli N.S good point
@Pisces West So, hypothetically, using your logic making characters gay because, hey, why not, is a bad thing because it was forced? Because they weren't straight?
So, another hypothetical, if I envision my main protagonist as Asian, because hey, why not, but my story has a bad script, it's script was supposedly bad because I decided that my main protagonist was going to be nonwhite because hey, why not? That just seems horribly reductionist and, frankly, bigoted.
Also, what's up with the random capitalization of words? Seriously, what's with that?
@Pisces West ALL CAPS *bolded* _italicized_
They aren't?
Was colonialism "forced diversity"
It was good writing at least
@@gammonator8913 you’ve gotta admit the fans of the villains are annoying as fuck though
7:53 (The Dishonoured Wolf) "I don't know where you are"
Me too.
I don't know where he is now.
Is this good?
Is Ripley from Alien still one of the only quotable females in the bunch?
It almost feel like reactionary anti-SJW know only a few movies and bring them again and again instead of various different movies.
@Madalin Grama Which definition you mean, "some people get butthutr from woman as main character"? What is so forced on "Well, this girl right here fits character in Ripley is not specifily hypermasculinar so it´s ok".
And the only reason Ripley isn’t an example of forced diversity is because they know their viewers would eviscerate them for saying that. If Alien were made today they absolutely would call it forced diversity.
franco carrizo sparosvich, Sarah Conners from the Terminator Films, and the Sarah Chronicles were always my most favorite female Sci-Fi protagonist, but I’ve heard multiple different UA-camrs that are professional writers that still love Ripley out of any female Sci-Fi protagonist.
I've noticed this too, and my current hypothesis on why this is it has something to do with these guys having slightly narrow media tastes.
Imagine thinking Hollywood is far left.
Neo Liberalism ain't Leftist
ua-cam.com/video/0rlLIyjUgiE/v-deo.html
it is left wing,
The wolf boi seems to argue that an identity is okay as long as it's not a "focal point of the story." This seems to mean that entertainment should not explore concepts such as femininity/masculinity and how these affect the characters of the movie/novel/whatever? That's both kinda weird (I wonder what he would think of Fight Club) but also seems to not be in line with the rest of his argument as they appear in this video. (Like, is Mary Sue-ness an essential part of womanhood, that seeped into Rey when she was defined as a woman in the writing? If not the Star Wars argument doesn't work at all.)
"This seems to mean that entertainment should not explore concepts such as femininity/masculinity " Yep, I bet Jean-Luc Godard is feeling mighty foolish now.
I love to bring up Dorian from DA:I when this comes up, bc despite what ur opinion on the game is, his whole questline is a good example of how to write a gay character. His gayness affects his character, his opinions and his story. But it's not ALL that he is. And even if it was, who cares? No one ever criticizes straight characters for being "too straight"
Also when he gave Ripley as an example he showed images of her being a "mama-bear" so her femininity was, in fact, a focal part of her character at some point.
I think he is just a talking head, repeating points he heard on the internet but he never deeply thought about them.
"This seems to mean that entertainment should not explore concepts such
as femininity/masculinity and how these affect the characters of the
movie/novel/whatever?"
Ugh... you're everything wrong with entertainment, and the exact problem he's talking about. Why should a story about space cowboys with magical laser swords and superpowers suddenly "explore concepts such as femininity/masculinity." Save that pretentious shit for whatever liberal arts class you wrote this pretentious crap in, some of us just want to watch ships exploding in a movie called "Star Wars." You're not some profound intellectual for repeating the same base-level sociology commentary your professor told you, you're just some jackass wanting to shove ideology into everything.
@@corvobasqez3936 like i dont have a problem with str8 ppl... you know how this song goes, they never say how a character was too straight how it's their only personality trait. But when a LGBTQAI gender or sexual identity is even brought up at all then their shoving it down their throats
remake amelie but with lesbians
I would love to see that
You joke but this is now a weird hill that I will die on.
Remake the truman show but truman is gay
Amelie would make so much sense as a quirky lesbian character
Remake the history of humans but with gay furries
>Wants a character to be a minority but unrelated to anything in the game
>Proceeds to bitch when that happens in any game ever.
k then
Why do you need to justify having a character be a non white male in a fictional story?
Because in order for that character to be good enough for centrists, there can't be themes represented in regards to the person themselves. That would make them feel uncomfortable and challenged, and people who talk about forced diversity don't like that.
By not being so obsessed with their race for one thing. Since it's such a trivial thing in the first place.
Nephi Nelson you guys are the ones obsessed with their race
You don't. The problem is when insecure white writers create POC characters that are nothing but pedestalized, perfect hollow shells. These aren't even characters. They're white writers trying to show off, "I'm one of the good ones!"
Macaroni and Cliches You couldn't be more wrong. By people hyping up the fact that a new main protagonist/villain/etc is being portrayed by someone other than a white male, they're making it seem like it's a rare event. Essentially, they're standing in the way of normalising it. Why do you think Morgan Freeman prefers to be called "an actor", as opposed to "an actor of colour"? Because by fixating on something so trivial, and with Hollywood trying to please people that only really care about diversity and using their IP as a means to get a relevant political message across (not good stories being told or simply for entertainment), they're doing the exact opposite of what they claim to be for.
Take it from someone who used to love Doctor Who. Right up until broadcast, the BBC would not shut the hell up about The Doctor being female. Everyone who at first had a reactionary response had moved on, but the BBC, on their website, in every bit of media, in every interview given, would not stop shoving the diversity message about the Doctor being female and how amazing it is down everyone's throats. It got aggravating, and people naturally felt the need to speak their mind on it. Just like Wolf.
tfw movies are bad and you must somehow blame the sjws
@Pisces West but nothing does that you just claim it does
@@ryan9877 you know the director literally said he did that? Like, it's quite amazing how the director can literally look you in the face and say "yes, we're sjws and we forced diversity into this movie" and you turn around and go "but that's not proof enough."
Like, be giving honest for once in your life.
@@theplaybunnyarcade3375 what director for what movie?
@@ryan9877 We're literally talking about one specific movie.
If you don't even know what the conversation is about then theres no reason to continue with you.
@@theplaybunnyarcade3375 >not a single movie gets mentioned
"We're talking about a specific movie PLEASE pay attention"
top ten things centrists believe that would be great if they were true
Can you make that please? I'd watch it
I'll help by adding to the list.
2. All it takes to win an argument are better ideas.
3. Color-blindness will end racism.
4. colleges are centers for leftist indoctrination
5. Left wing feminists controll all the media.
6. Antifa is better organized and more brutal, ruthless and efficient than all facist organizations combined.
7. Money will follow ideas instead of the other way around.
8. If opression and discrimination are outlawed, they are not a thing in society anymore.
9. Minorities are too much protected by the police, the law and social norms.
10. If we give free speech to the nazis, everyone will realize how dumb their ideas are.
@@Patricia_Taxxon Except that list is true. You peeps are proving it.
Bigoted furries make me so uncomfortable. Like…you come into a place who’s whole thing is acceptance and self expression and bang your drum yelling NOOO ACCEPTANCE BAD!!! Jfc
I’m pretty sure it’s just coincidence because conservative furs are very uncreative but I know of someone uncannily similar. Grey wolf, black hair, goatee, blue eyes, dogshit opinions. 🤔
It’s a weird double edged sword because having subtle diversity (someone casually mentioning their gay / just happens to be a woman in a story) is great but also having explicitly gay / explicitly female themes/ plot in a story is also amazing.
But yeah blaming the quality of a film on the gender / sexuality of a character is dumb.
Why don’t you have both for different characters? Or make it overt for one character’s arc, and then in the next arc it’s subtle, or reversed. You can change everything on a whim. In your romantic comedy, you could suddenly add Disco Man, a guy decked out in the most blindingly reflective 70’s dance attire and a giant afro with star sunglasses for both his face and his afro, who can read minds, turn any room he’s in into a disco dance floor and back at will, and is on the run from the government, and he can be the only character with any of these traits and everyone else can be normal, slightly sarcastic people, whilr disco man can appear and disappear, seemingly at will, and the government never interferes with our main characters lives who is currently just dating this goofy chick who works at the zoo. You see? You can write anything you want! Why do you have to choose anything?
@@redactedoktor the fuck are you even saying
this is so anarchist 💯💯‼️‼️‼️👨🎤👨🎤
Welcome back to "I'm going to take someone completely out of context and wonder why I'm getting backlash"
Really? Explain please
Sir Jaojao Also there was a livestream debunking this
“Hey can you tell me what he took out of context”
“No”
What is forced diversity?? It's very quite simple in fact. It's the disingenuous use of diversity claims to flaunt virtuous superiority and now often used as a marketing gimmick.
No, it’s more like “you wanting to hire a woman specifically for this role automatically means you either don’t care or care less how good an actress she is and/or the artistry of your work as a whole, because I say so” totally not prejudice with extra steps, there
@@knowledgeanddefense1054 nope, not limited to women. That's a pretty bias perception.
@@AmazingKevinWClark You're right, Blade Runner 2049's director doesn't care about quality because he gender swapped for Dune AND Tarantino doesn't care about quality because he specifically hired a black person to play Django (I'm guessing to you it doesn't even matter if the race is instrumental to the plot). Makes sense.
Yes marketing departments do that but how does that make movies worse?
@Simon__Well weird that you people keep bringing up movies when I never made a comment on the subject. But if you want an answer on how it makes movies worse than here it is... these creators who are obsessed with virtue signaling diversity often lack the experience and skills required of the job, they're also obsessed with bad trends and ignore their own bad behavior. You don't have to be a good person, you just have to claim it. That aside, one popular bad trend I've seen emerge is breaking the main character narrative. This is one of the worst ones out there as the point of having a main character is following their story. It is that character by design that the audience will connect the most with and experience the world through their story. When you fail to properly payoff that story, it renders the journey completely redundant. We saw this happen in the newest Matrix movie. We follow Neo majority of the movie and never get a payoff to watching his story, thanks to the twist ending. All that development we watched Neo go through during the movie is made completely meaningless by having no payoff for him. It means the audience got invested in his story for no reason and it's a betrayal of narrative. While this case isn't a direct example of false diversity, these bad practices have come from the same mindset. It was the mindset that Trinity should steal focus because they wanted a woman to have the power. Which in itself is perfectly fine and I welcome doing but not at the cost of an established narrative. The same mindset is also the reason why there's a scene of developers in the movie insulting the original Matrix audience for 5 minutes. This obsession of "deconstructing" classic characters to the point of making it no fun for anyone. Do these people have no joy in their lives and overflated hubris, is that really the underlying problem here?? I would say it is.
Character who was abandoned as a child and grew up alone as a scavenger in a hostile environment turns out to be fairly competent and adaptable? In the same universe where a nine year old podracer can blow up a space station and a simple farm boy can blow up a heavily-armed battlestation protected by the best pilot in the galaxy? Forced diversity strikes again!
Alexander Rabey Omg that’s so true XD!
What really gets me is how he thinks Rey is a Mary Sue because she is a better shot than a stormtrooper. Look, I'm not really much of a Star Wars fan, but it's pretty well known at this point that just about everyone is a better shot than a stormtrooper.
And both needed training and both got there azzes whooped in situations where they were outmatched
Fairly competent and adaptable?
She's a better pilot than Poe, the best pilot in the resistance.
She knows more about the millennium falcon than han solo.........han solo ffs.
She pulls off the best piloting of the falcon the first time that she ever flew it and she did it without a co-pilot.
She used incredibly advanced force techniques despite not knowing what the force is and never using it before.
She beat kylo ren in combat the first ever time she even used a lightsaber.
She beat like skywalker in combat............luke skywalker.........in combat.
Oh and she can fucking swim despite living on a sand planet her whole life.
To call that fairly competent and adaptable is frankly ridiculous, she has god level abilities.
The 9 year old that you reference had the highest midichlroian count ever recorded and he had been racing podracers for years, the only human that can do it. He got lucky with the space station, it even gets him there by accident on autopilot. Raw talent and incredible luck is not the same as the god powers of the Mary sue.
And as far as you referencing a farm boy that blows up the death star as if Luke woke up one day, got I'm a tie fighter, flew it to the Death Star and blew it up to be home in time for dinner is so dishonest and bad faith I'm baffled. He spent 3 movies becoming the Luke Skywalker we all know, he had to fail twice, he lost an arm, he was defeated, he had to struggle to learn even basic force powers. He earned how awesome he is in return of the jedi whereas rey is just unstoppable from the beginning because they needed a strong female character no matter how artificial they needed to be to make it happen
@@jhamod556 name one time when Rey got her ass handed to her
Why is it objective that having a gay character in a movie makes it better?
Geralt of Trivia Indeed!
It's not, without context that's like saying adding the colour red to your movie is objectively better or worse.
Give us context or this doesn't mean anything worthwhile
@@Neo2266. Exactly!
“Notices bugle” I am screaming right now
Ill be honest. I thought you were just a popular regular commenter on Contrapoints', Shaun's, and hbomberguy's videos. Didn't know you did videos too.
This is a pleasant surprise.
Screamed "What the FUCK do you mean!" and "Who the FUCK do you think you're fooling!" have lived rent free in an an-com collective which is my brain for the last 5 years.
I used to use the term "forced diversity," but I also was kind of a cringy anti-feminist. I now realize I'm just against tokenism, especially characters that are just stereotypes or caricatures.
JJ openly said he was discriminating against whites in casting because too many whites applied. Are you against that? Or the BBC basically doesn't hire whites anymore. Against that? It's more than just tokenism, forcing diversity into everything is discrimination against one group in favour of another.
@@duncanmcokiner4242 It's literal discrimination to cast people as characters who are nonwhite? Lol.
@@AedraRising Is that actually what I said? No, it's not. If you can't argue against what I'm actually saying, don't bother trying to argue at all. What I said was that the BBC literally discriminates against whites in the hiring process. Not because they sometimes hire a black man but because they tip the scales in favour of anyone who isn't white.
@The Dolphin Police He said that I claimed "It's literal discrimination to cast people as characters who are nonwhite". What I actually said was that the BBC are discriminating against whites by specifically not hiring them. It is discrimination to refuse whites jobs for their race.
I'm aware that lefties aren't exactly capable of understand extremely basic things such as, you know, what words mean ... But come on now.
@@duncanmcokiner4242 they do because black actors and queer actors are vastly underrepresented and are discriminated against during their careers, it's a fact. racism didn't disappear overnight, it still exists and it's around us. just because jim crow laws are repealed doesn't mean that people can't be racist or that the systems that keep black people at a disadvantage are not here
besides due to systemic racism black people are more likely to live in poorer neighborhoods and therefore have less resources to develop their skills or pursue their talent.
therefore they have it harder than the white people that almost never face individual discrimination, and never face systemic discrimination. and "tipping the scales" is the attempt to compensate.
by your logic disabled people who receive financial benefits/aid because of their disabilities are discriminating against abled people too?
Wait, he says the difference between diversity and forced diversity is that forced diversity is artificial. But this is in regards to fiction, so... isn't it *all* artificial?
I guess he meant it *feels* artificial which is relative, so uh.... rather telling on his part.
joe momma no what he means is when you intentionally hire a cast based on races to make it more diverse instead of on acting skill
Then it’s forced because if we are hiring actors then naturally we should hire off of acting skill not skin colour or gender
Of course if you are adapting from a book then that’s okay or you set it in a country like China
But that doesn’t normally happen it’s normally in reverse we’re characters are forced into places where they don’t fit like
Black guys being in witcher (it’s a good show btw ) there is no explanation why they should be there and as Witcher is based off of medieval times around 1200 there aren’t black guys aswell as no black people being in the books or games and the dryads being black which is just completely forced
@@keyan1219 but that relies on knowing someone's intent, something that you can't do. Authorial intent is assumed, and if the assumption you're jumping to is that someone belonging to a minority group got their position based on a minority status rather than merit, the implications of your preconceived notions and attitudes towards minorities are rather... concerning.
joe momma I’m talking about the dryads which had no race but where given a race for diversity and surprise it was black
Yes it can rely on intent but the creator of the witcher series said she wanted a diverse cast
That is forced diversity
joe momma so the Dryad point goes against your “you’re racist by assuming minorities are picked because of their race rather than merit”
Also have you seen Kathleen Kennedy “the force is female “ (this is more of a joke )
joe momma good example would be bill from doctor who and jahani from kotor
In doctor who it is constantly said that bill is a lesbian and it gets annoying as it’s supposed to make her special but in reality it adds nothing to her personality whereas jahani only ever really mentions once she is a lesbian and it’s never part of her character which is a lot better of away to handle someone sexuality by making it not very important to the persons character because it shouldn’t ones character should be determined by ones character not ones sexuality
I seem to recall Fluffboy also argued that Dishonored 2 didn't do as well as its predecessor cos of its diversity. Not, you know, because the pc version was buggy as shit with frame rates that made it unplayable on mid tier machines.And it was a brilliant game that existed in an imaginary universe, not a real historical setting,so I'm not sure how having a few female guards and a trans gang member ruined it, but whatever.
Examples? No? Oh.
You know there can be more issues with a product than one right? If what you claim wolf said is true, i would assume wolf focused on the story part of dishonored 2 rather than if it was buggy, and the reason he would do so is because the story is what he likes the most in most products.
@@Maltesfilm Being honest here, if he said "Fluffyboy said that he fucked shrek" they would've just believed it. They don't look for extra proof, they don't look for context. As long as it's against wolf, they will agree, no questions asked
ScattySafari
It could very well be because of its diversity cause these racist assh0les do campaign against anything they consider "sjw", and they tend to do worse than they should or fail. Just cause it's not bad due to "diversity" doesn't mean it won't fail because of it because of the hate mongering of "anti-sjw's". Who aren't by any means unpopular. In fact they're quiet popular and their point of view the norm in a lot of circles
@@Scoring57 being anti-sjw is unpopular
2:40 "... Becoming a better shot than a storm trooper who had trained for years..."
Um, that's not hard. Storm troopers shoot like they have a blindfold on at all times. *I* could out aim a storm trooper and I've never held a gun in my life.
J Cs can you blame them?? Have you seen their masks?
@@keyan1219 She literally fucks up by leaving the safety on, misses the shot and then gets it on her third try. Watch the scene again man.
@@keyan1219 Okay let's take the premise that Rey was written to be a strong woman specifically for diversity's sake. Is this an endemic issue of the movie industry? Would this have made the movie any better if this didn't exist? If this were the only issue of the movie would the movie have suddenly become good?
See I just don't think that forced diversity is a problem, and definitely not to the extent that is levied by the anti-sjws. The worse problem is "woke capitalism" or executives who have no relation to the actual artistry of the movie making decisions on their behalf to sell more tickets. If the firms were owned by their own workers this would go 1000x further to fixing whatever issue forced diversity causes, however no one on the right seems to offer that solution.
Also, what if the writers wanted to create a Mary-Sue because they were SJW's or whatever? Are you arguing against their artistic right to do so? Maybe you dislike the mode of story telling and you hope it doesn't become mainstream, neither would I, but I've never seen critiques of this phenomenon not assign some moral blame to the idea of progressiveness rather than just the artists', or more accurately the executives', choice of storytelling.
I think a better critique would be that Disney wanted to make billions from their freshly purchased ip rights, (is it morally right that Disney should even be able to purchase such a popular concept and hold sole copyright?) and so shoehorned a new trilogy to a, virtually, completed story. They then made executive decisions to market the brand to previously alienated demographics like women and black people. There was no artistic originality with the trilogy, it was just a soulless cash grab by people who provide no valuable work to the artistry of movies propped up by the broken idea of "Intellectual Property rights." Yet instead of criticizing what would most easily be described as capitalism, people like you criticize the concept of "forced diversity." It's childish and cowardly. It's offering simple solutions to complex problems all propped up by your inability to intellectually engage with the subject.
@@keyan1219 But why is she a Mary Sue? Is it because she's a woman, or is it just that she's poorly written? Even if Rey were a man, Rey would still be a poorly written character, you would still be complaining about it. Her womanhood has nothing to do with it.
@@keyan1219 That implies that making her a woman and making her good are mutually exclusive concepts, like they couldn't have made her good so they just relied on the woman thing. This is exactly what Patricia was talking about in the video, you can't make a Quality vs. Diversity dichotomy without implying that you can't have a good diverse character.
"Wolf Daddy"
A furry complaining about "forced diversity", the irony is forever lost.
The whole furry thing was a joke. I'm guessing you're not a big fan of research...
@@babiesthealer4 why tf would anyone waste their time researching the origins of the emo furry complaining about sjws
How is that ironic? Are you saying women, black people, cripples, gays and mentally deranged people can't hate forced diversity?
@@TheIntenseLime, Wolf goes by Smudboy nowadays, and he has a profile picture of Commander Shepard from Mass Effect, but he still makes valid points in his videos unlike Patrica Taxxon.
@@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr yeah sure buddy
Rey's a cookie-cutter boring character, nowhere near as interesting as Kylo Ren's character, but so what? Good guy characters have been boring since the beginning of time. I'm not saying they're all boring, but as a group they tend toward boring because the authors want us to like them. So they have to be super good at stuff and not have any interesting opinions or emotions that might put off parts of the audience. It doesn't matter that Rey's female - she'd be just as dopey and boring if played by a male.
And actually, it's occurring to me that Rey does have to be either female or gay because part of the tension of the story comes from the mutual attraction between the good guy and the bad guy. The bad guy is already dealing with temptations toward goodness and is then confronted with someone good whom he finds deeply compelling. The interest for the audience lies in how they work this out, or fail to.
So centrist cartoon cat with the Hitler hairdo and Hitler mustache sitting on its chin really has no argument here.
Rey's gender is never mentioned nor focused on in either of the movies she's in. You could literally make her a man and nothing would change. Wolfie boi just mad the lady can do the space magic well.
That's terrible writing if the gender is that interchangeable.
@Doktor Dohn That's because they changed the script as soon as they hired Weaver. Last minute script changes or even script changes mid production isnt a rare occurence.
@@TallicaMan1986 Why is it bad to have a story where the protagonist's gender doesn't matter? Would Lord of the Rings be ruined if Frodo was a lady halfling?
@@Maksie0 it probably would because Sam and Frodo spent like 10 years on the road together. Most likely Sam and Frodo journeys would've ended up a hell of a lot different if this was the case.
@@TallicaMan1986 How? How would it end differently? What, would having a different gender really make Sam treat lady Frodo that differently?
If Rei was a blue furry wolf instead of a woman, he would have said it was the best movie ever.
Finally. Somebody understand!
wtf we live in a society now
*old wolf yells at cloud*
Did I just stumble down the breadtube pipeline into some magical technicolor wonderland of militant furry politics
I just got the "red rocketier" joke holy shit
Centrist furries
Better than the other political versions, isn't it?
Thankfully he's not a furry
awesome
How tf is Rey only good because she’s a woman,
Rey faces no real threat has no likeable personality goes through no real hardships she’s just a bland strong woman who’s better at everything than anyone it’s preachy and annoying, ppl like to see character development, to see their personality and see their trials and tribulations, if a character is just great at everything like Rey there’s no threat she’s just a strong female character written to be a strong female character not a character written with a deep interesting story and who happens to be female.
@@markwheeler4245 she is just badly written but it has nothing to do with her being a woman.
I've seen more badly written male characters that were written like that and no one batted an eye but as soon as it's a woman most of you just throw hands in the air and complain about "sjws"
Found someone who re-uploaded his video. Yeah context made his points sound even worse.
edit: I'm referring to Wolf.
are you talking about taxxon or wolf
@@gridhunter8592 Wolf.
WE TRULY DO LIVE IN A SOCIETY
*Woodpecker #1 plays*
Bottom text.
Totally a tangential nit-pick about Corvo Attano Lupus' fursona, if a wolf was missing a huge chunk of it's ears like that then the ears would be a lot floppier because you'd be missing huge chunks of cartilage...which is what lets the ears maintain their shape in the first place.
Wait. I don't ever remember them explicity pointing out that Rey can do things because she's a woman in the star wars movies.
The worst part was the scene where Leai said that she broke up with Han primarily because he's a white male.
Kate Kursive Gasp. It’s like people are sort of complaining about something that was never there to begin with?
Yeah, it’s just that they said fuck everything established in the other movies, she’s just strong cause I’m too fucking lazy to write a character arc
AnHeC It is never implied that she is great because of her gender. Nothing relies on her gender. The criticism shouldn't focus on her gender when her gender has nothing to do with the problems.
Watch the EFAP if you'd like to see how little of his video Eric actually covers.
Watch Rags | The Worst UA-camr for an explanation as to why it was completely unnecessary for her to review the entirety of Wolf's video.
@@captainautobots Eric's a dude
@@IntelligenceBuild she identifies as female and is in the process of transitioning, which is why she changed her name to Patricia. I respect her wishes.
@@captainautobots Oh I didn't know they were the same person. This guy in the video is Eric, pre-transition though, yeah?
@@IntelligenceBuild not every trans person feels the same way about themselves pre-transition, but from Patricia changing her name everywhere she can I'd say it's clear she was always Patricia and there's no guy in this video, it's just Patricia at an earlier point in her life where she identified differently and was in a different social role
I can't be the only one incapable of taking people with furry avatars seriously.
Yes
@Hugga Mein I fail to see the how the two things are the same but ok
@Hugga Mein lmao I'm sorry my pfp angered you so much. Trust me, I know all about the toxic shit in the anime fandom, but like isn't this true of all fandoms? My pfp is from a show that's popular outside of anime fans too.
This discussion occurs in the comments where the video is presented by a fucking boy scout lol. Goes to show it doesn’t matter what the person or persona (or fursona lol) looks like, just as long as whatever is talking into the microphone makes solid arguments. That’s where my issue lies, in that this video response is shorter than its source material and includes no actual argument Wolf makes...
Also, btw, love My Hero Academia, so, nice pfp 👌😁
As nuclear said. You should actually watch Wolf's video. Or even check out the EFAP that he, Rags, and MauLer did in response to this video. You really should look at both sides of a case, or it's essentially a "trial of absentia".
ua-cam.com/video/lpxq8S8nego/v-deo.html
Honestly this video was a waste of time. You didn't agree with what the other guy said but you didn't say anything productive either. Just made sarcastic remarks, that's it. that's all. I clicked this video because I 100% honestly wanted to hear the "other side of the coin". Leaving dissapointed. P.S.: Hiding the like/dislike ratio of the video also doesn't speak well about your ability to tolerate different opinions.
Just because the video wasn't what you expected doesn't make it a waste of time. She never presented herself as "the other side of the coin"; rather, she's putting his words to scrutiny. The response is basically that the ideas presented do not consistently support the thesis.
@@uknownada I didn't hear the part where it proves the ideas presentes do not supprt the thesis thought. Anyway, have a good day :)
@@abrahamdejesus1321 It's a generally common structure to counteressays.
@@uknownada Honestly I always like to hear both says of the story. If you say A is wrong and B is correct, You have to explain both of those things. I understood the point the other guy made, regardless wheter I agree or not, but I didn't understand the point here honestly. If this is a common structure for counteressays something is missing.
@@abrahamdejesus1321 You're assuming that any counteressay is about "B" is correct. This video has no B. Did you think she was going to explain why forced diversity is good?
Category : Pets and animals
Lulenowski probably because he OWNS a doggo in this video?
I’ll see myself out
Usually when people say stuff like "I'm okay with black people or women in this or that" you know they're about to say some racist and misogynistic stuff. I don't think that wolf guy understands what nuance even is. He probably heard someone else use the term and he thought if he used it it would make him appear highly intelligent. Anyways, a lot of these "reviewers" like wolf seem to operate as a hive brain that repeats the same claims about "forced diversity" or how some blockbuster film is "feminist propaganda," but they never elaborate on what they mean by those terms, nor explain how those terms even apply. What I find ironic about these "reviewers" like wolf is they lack any sense of individuality.
the irony. Been on bothsides of the fence. Same shit, but this side is more retarded.
I think a big part of the whole "Forced Diversity" argument kind of comes down to the fact that so much of it in the past used to be focused on "Issues Episodes" and such. As Jack Saint put it, and characters who are part of a marginalized group that show up, help the protagonists learn a lesson, and then never show up again. I really feel like the fact that trope was so common is part of this, like people being conditioned to see characters that way, or worse them falling into that category without meaning to. I haven't played the Dragon Age games yet, really need to do that one of these days. Anyway as I recall; one of them, the third I believe, included a trans man npc. I saw a lot of complaints about the writing and such and claims of forced diversity, or that he was just there to teach the player a lesson. I can't attest to the quality of the writing like I said, but if it's not true the fact that's where they went is telling. And if it is true, then it just brings up the issue thing. Conversely I saw trans and nonbinary users complain that there was no option to acknowledge your character being trans as well. Transpeople exist, but they're still someone different then the assumedly cis player. I'm certain that wasn't their intent, but I feel like it all kind of roots into the same thing and the whole perception of "forced diversity" might be largely influenced by it. Kinda like the "Magical Native American" trope.
Also this has probably come up a billion times, but I've never seen it. A lot of people call Rey a mary sue and say she can do anything because she's a woman and thus needs to be a "strong female protagonist with no flaws". So I have to ask. If she was written 100% the same but male, would she be a mary sue still, and more importantly; would people be complaining that he's a gary stu, or would it just be accepted as main character specialness?
And just for the sake of full disclosure, I liked Last Jedi more then Force Awakens, but both have huge problems and are probably in my bottom 3 of the films. Funnily enough the casino sequence that everyone hates was my favorite part of the movie. It just made the universe feel more lived in. Episodes 2 and 3 aside, most of Star Wars takes place in very remote areas; forests, deserts, old west inspired outlaw towns, and the occasional military installation. So it was nice to see a more urban environment that didn't get blown up 10 seconds later.
Man; the part about The Room made me sad. I remember reading how a game studio, I forget which (I think it was one of the ones that turned down publishing Remember Me), said that they don't publish games with female protagonists because they sell less. And it was also found that games with female leads tended to get like half the marketing budget. So less marketing>lower sales>less marketing budget>lower sales... and yet the fact the lead is a woman gets blamed because business.
i guess when people see black people, women or literally anything that has their own pride-flag appear in their favorite franchises, they immediately assume its a Lib-Right in a Lib-Left skinsuit that desperately wants to suck your wallet for them virtue-signal points.
that, or its all apart of the greater homosexual shadow-government conspiracy that wants to shrink humanity's birthrates for... whatever reason people like bullied dog over here believes
also the right fucking HATES wordbombs like these, so its good if we all collective tried to cut down our paragraphs so they can be bothered to read shit like this.
The wolf is SOOOOOOOOO grating in his intonation. I can barely listen to him.
I still wonder how I used to like him? His voice alone annoys me nowadays.
@@OwlEye2010
I think the reason people… “liked him”, was because he simple spoke the truth. Well, does speaking the truth mean you have to sacrifice not only your dignity to actually speak in a decent manner but also sacrifice your delivery in your speech?
@@ulfberht4431 I think you mean to say he spoke honestly, not the truth.
I believe Dishonored Wolf was honest in how he felt about the subjects he talked about, but that doesn't equate to him speaking truthfully about them. His subjective opinions aren't universal, objective facts, no matter how hard he tried to make it seem like they were.
Has anyone made a compilation of all of Eric's euphemisms for the wolf boy?
It's funny, I find Rey, at least in Force Awakens, to be a completely gender neutral, down to her name.
As a writer I hate the whole "if quality isn't your top priority your work will fail" because the way I write stories isn't "I'll write something good" then I sit on my ass till I come up with an idea, usually I get an idea that is inspired by a subject, often a political one, then revise it extensively to be the best version of that idea that it can possibly be. Quality is, for many writers, a means, not an end. And for the record, some of the best and deepest art ever made is so because it is political.
well if you shape your art around politic it will be shit anyway so gl m8, and i wouldn't called a cancer deep or best.
@@velessia4840 Ah yes, the critically panned slop of 1984, Huckleberry Finn, a pretty great deal of Shakespeare, as well as Charles Dickens. Not to mention A Clockwork Orange, and X-Men. If these were some of most celebrated stories of all time, or incredibly famous contemporary works, it may lead one to the conclusion that a lot of incredibly celebrated and famous art is political
@@mscapulet outdated, outdated and outdated, beside i'm pretty sure the vast majority of that work wasn't revolving exclusively around politics.
politics is nothing more than division nowadays, and people are getting overfed with it.
As a writer, this comment annoys me to no end. Although there isn't anything wrong to have politics or a political theme in a story, you can't base an entire story around politics and expect it to be good. Quality is both a means AND an end. If you can't write something and _not_ think while writing, your work will suffer. I mean, unless you WANT to be as bad as JCthefuckboy, Sonic 06, the current creepypasta community, or Silent Hill Homecoming.
Furry skeptics.
God damnit wasn't a furry ancap enough, world?
Love that you show only a minute of his video and skipped over the part where he dead ass said "let me explain" without even fucking telling us what he said
he doesn't explain
But he does. Also your response is dogshit from the start because it’s shorter than Wolf’s actual video. You cut out parts of his video to make him look bad.
"Well, I could be wrong, but I believe diversity is an old, old wooden ship that was used during the Civil War era..."
-Ron Burgundy