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I use to work at Hard Times Billiards in Bellflower Ca. back in the late 90's, early 2000's. All Brunswick GC tables and 10 GC tournament tables for serious players only. Ernesto Dominguez worked on all the tables and he kept the pockets on the tournament side at 4". The best players in the world played/gambled here. I'll take a GC over a Diamond any day of the week.
I tried this approach on my table. The bounce you get from the shims is considerably different than rubber. A decent solution if you don't want major surgery on your rails.
Hello, Thank you for the great content on UA-cam. I haven’t started renovating my pool table yet but will do in two weeks. I will be purchasing the cushions and cushion facings from your website. I already bought the cloth from the UK. Had I known about the website sooner I would have purchased it from your here. Im really on the fence with the following. Is it worth adding the additional rail facings to mimic a pro table and if so will they last or become flimsy after a couple of years? My only concerns is having guest over playing on them and whether it’ll be too frustrating for them. Another option is to purchase some pocket reducers. If I do decide to reduce the pockets do you recommend I increase the back would instead of adding the facings? I look forward to hearing from you. I’ve tried to send this via the option on the website but it appears to be showing me an error. Regards, G
I recently started competing, but we’ve had a Brunswick table for years. Competition is on diamond tables. threw me off so bad😂. I found a pool hall to practice on diamond tables
My pool hall has 9ft GC III's and Diamonds. My personal table is a beautiful 9ft GC VI. All play great with subtle differences. All these tables, gotta hit your shots clean or be rejected. I chose the GC VI for my home table because it's beautiful. Diamonds are nice but rather cookie cutter looking. Both are great tables. It's a matter of personal taste for the serious player. Casual player? Get a table with 5 inch pockets so you can enjoy yourself.
I'm with you. I'd much prefer playing on a GC than a Diamond. But, Diamond has managed to hype up the tight pockets so much that they've got a large number of people believing that feature makes for a great playing table. It doesn't! It makes for a VERY frustrating table to play on. Diamonds (in my opinion) are overrated and overpriced!
If you replace the rubber on your rails do they come oversized to where u can leave extra at each pocket and tighten the pockets this way or do the rail sizes come standard with no extra material to cut off? Thanks love ur vids
I've had my Olhausen double-shimmed for 15 years now with 860 cloth (that's been recovered just once). And while I wouldn't trade it for a non-shimmed table, the shims mixed with Olhausen's natural pocket angle can make down-rail shots very frustrating. Especially when hit with any speed. Its amazing for practice, and keeping you sharp instead of lazy, but I do wish the angle was a little straighter - like the actual Diamonds, every-time I get that good ol' Olhausen Rattle. If you are doing this to your table and want it done right, do it the right way and use the second method he mentioned, or figure out a way to decrease the outer pocket width more than the inner pocket width (angled shims anyone?)
This is exactly what I came to look for. It would seem you'd want to cut the shims at an angle so the pocket is as you described. As soon as I saw the picture of the pocket with the balls, I thought "well that seems to be tapered funny." I came to the comments to make sure it wasn't just me.
@@section8usmc53 so about 4 months ago I caved in and did it. Took the cloth and rails off, cut shims at about a 5 deg angle with about a 15 degree slant to the miter saw to match the down angle of the rails. The olhausens are 1.5 inch subrails so the 2" (1.5" measured) planks worked perfectly. Glued them on, then added staples for security. Put new artimis rubber on cut to match the new angles, new featherstrips, and new 3/8 inch facings. The pockets are now 4", but honestly in some ways play easier than the 4.5" they were before. Much more fair now. No more olhausen rattle. Plays great really, and amazing for practice. I will probably have to get a pro to put new felt on though, I put new tourny blue 860 on it, and the bed cloth looks good, but I didn't do the best job on the rail cloth. But that said, I couldn't find anyone within 50 miles willing to do the work, many didn't even know what I was asking
Olhausen pockets are cut to make potting tougher I feel. Everyone said Diamonds are tight but I didn't notice any difference from my Olhausen. The widths might be different but there's more than just width to make a table tough. I believe there's 3 measurements that determine table toughness as per Dr Dave.
Does adding a 3mm and a 5mm together affect the acceptance of balls into the pockets. And wow I just noticed you’re adding the two to existing facing. I have 3mm facings now & was thinking about adding another 3mm to tighten the pockets but also thought about adding a 5mm instead of a 3mm to go even tighter but was worried about it affect correct acceptance. I guess it you added both it would be fine for me to add 5mm for a total of 10 which is less than the 16mm total you added. What’s your opinion? I’m at 4-9/16” now. Thx
nah... Brunswick tables are more fun to play on. Plus the rails don't play short. You can get more draw. And you can hit a perfect firm shot down the rail and it actually goes in the pocket.
Hey I watch all your videos and I'm wondering if you can answer a question. I have a 9 foot c.l. bailey and I'm making pockets tight. I ordered ozone speed cloth one piece 104"×66" do you think I will have enough to cover rails?
Apologies if you addressed this and I missed it, but I have a 9' table, unfortunately with 5inch pockets. I am in the process of narrowing them to 4.25 and I was told that the only good way to do this was to actually add wood to the rail facing for the rail rubber to adhere to. The rationale is that adding too much rubber facing makes balls act strangely when they contact that part of the rail rubber -- I guess it isn't quite as solid as having the rail rubber seated to wood. As a one pocket player I am particularly sensitive to this. Do you have any thoughts on the difference between adding extra rubber facings as you do here versus adding wood to the facing?
You said it. I'm a 1pocket player too. I did that to a brunswick pro 8 for a practice table...The proper thing to do is add model makers plywood to the rail ends and replacing the rubber cushions. (Model makers plywood comes in 4mm 5mm 6mm 8mm ect.) I went from 5 inch to 4.5 inch and it played great. The table mechanic did the final angle adjustments for the facing.
I have a '75 GCII with origonal rubber. As I understand it, the Super Speed cushions are real rubber and won't go bad. I am considering 1/4 inch shims each side. If in the future someone wants to remove the shims, can they save the cushions?
What about the angle of the rubber at the corner pockets? The corner pockets on my Connelly are wider than 2 balls, but the rubber angle diverges towards the playing surface. When I hit the balls with hard draw when cheating the pocket, the ball often jars in the corner pocket and doesn't fall.
The angle does make a difference. I have done this same thing on some tables, however I sand the new facings on a belt sander before gluing them on the old facings. Look up Olhausen rattle. when replace all the rubber, fix the angle on the wood instead of stacking facings which makes the pocket corner too hard.
Extreme draw puts extreme top spin on the object ball.. Meaning, if you’re hitting the target it should fall.. Now, if you have a deep shelf and a flanged opening, the could be a problem that requires new rubber, but a great stroke is what really solves that issue, IMO..
Why are diamond tables so expensive? And why did tournaments switch to them in the usa instead of olhausen? Im looking too buy a new table ive narrowed it down between olhausen and diamond? What's the difference in how they play besides the tighter pockets?
Diamonds are expensive because they're good tables made out of high quality materials and high quality craftsmanship. Are their prices justified? Not for me. I think Diamond went out of their way to fix problems that didn't exist. Do they roll true? When installed properly, yes. But, so does every other major manufacturer's table when installed properly. If you're comparing properly installed 3 piece slate Diamonds to 3 piece slate Olhausens (or Brunswicks) the advantages claimed by Diamond become minimal at best. Personally, I find those advantages to be subjective rather than objective. I would be more interested in the quantifiable differences between the manufacturers. 1) Is there a quantifiable difference in how true the tables roll (NOT related to variances in cloth). 2) Quantifiable difference in the lifespan of the table itself. 3) Quantifiable difference in how well the finish holds up after "X" number of years of use. Ease of installation is not and should not be the buyer's problem. So, any features that a manufacturers say aid in easier installation are mere gimmicks. They're designed to get more money out of you - the consumer. As evidenced by the 90 year history of the "modern" way of building a pool table (look up "T" rail pool tables to understand how tables were built prior to the 1930's), and the 180+ year history, effectiveness, and ease of installation of traditional 3 piece slate methods, there is NO practical advantage in using slate leveling bolts as opposed to wooden wedges. Also, there is no practical advantage in using mechanical leg leveling systems as opposed to flat wooden, plastic, or rubber shims under the legs of tables. Even simple leg levelers like those found on Brunswick Gold Crown tables are, in all actuality, more cosmetic rather than functional. Once a table is installed and is level, it shouldn't need to be re-leveled. So, unless you're moving your table a LOT (as you would with coin operated tables that go from one bar to another or get moved around within a bar for special functions or gatherings), having mechanical leg levelers is pointless (other than aesthetics). As for your question regarding the switch in tournaments, that one is simple. It all comes down to which company is going to pony up the most money to sponsor the event. Part of the higher price you're paying for when buying a Diamond table is going to pay for marketing. And sponsoring tournaments is part of marketing. Tighter pockets: I find the idea of tighter pockets - outside of practicing your game - utterly ridiculous! I firmly believe that there should be industry standards for pool tables and the game of pool. Industry standards for pockets was established back in the 1930's. That standard has worked VERY well for almost a century. Why change it? With Diamond's tighter pockets, they've managed to make a great table to practice on; but, a very frustrating table to actually play on. If I were to put it on gun terms, it would be like using a bench gun for hunting. Diamonds are that ULTRA-HIGH precision tool that's great for practicing your accuracy. But, for everyday use, completely frustrating to play on. Oh, and your friends who don't really play pool, they'll be absolutely MISERABLE trying to play on a tight pocket Diamond! Ultimately it's your choice. Both Diamond and Olhausen make good quality tables. But, if it were my choice, I'd go with Olhausen.
@@CreativeRestorations wow thank you. Your the first and only person too ever pick olhausen over diamond. Great information absolutely phenomenal in detail. Your right theres a standard and regulation for pool tables why diamond decides tighter pockets is better, is beyond my comprehension. I want to get really good for my own self satisfaction not to go pro. Maybe play some local tournaments hopefully win one or more in the future. But yeah i want an enjoyable table not a frustrating table. Plus olhausen have a lifetime warranty on what exactly? im not to sure. Plus im moving to Tennessee and olhausen made or assembled there i wanna support local businesses. Your the only person to convince to not get diamond and im glad you did. Olhausen seem like very high end tables so i Can't go wrong. Plus it will leave me thousands of dollars left over to buy pool cues and balls and other accessories for my man cave..
It really makes no sense you have all these people from my dads generation grew up around pool tables, now all of a sudden he coms over and i have a diamond hes never played on tighter pockets hes gunna hate my table and never wanna play on it and i dont blame him thats not regulations.. i always grew up on 9ft tables so i hate playing on 6,7, even 8ft tables sure you should be able too adjust too any table some might say. But the fact of the matter is i always thought regulations tables were 9 by 4.5ft so why tournaments even allow pros too play on small bar tables is beyond me it wasn't like that in the 70's-90's all the pros only played on 9ft tables not valley bar tables like today.. i feel regulations have went out the window the past decade.. well in California i guarantee the pros or ams would never play on these bar tables out here they never roll true, they never been releveled after being moved hundreds of times, never been refelted, pockets barely hanging on lumps in the cloth or missing cloth its a disaster too play on.. i wish i was making this up i cant believe the disrespect one has for a pool table unbelievable i hate seeing miss treated pool tables its sad..
There are practicing aids that one can use to make standard pockets tighter. So, if you want to practice on a table with tighter pockets, you can do that - without sacrificing enjoyable play outside of practice. With Diamond tables, you ALWAYS have tight pockets. And, as I've commented elsewhere on this video, outside of MAJOR reconstruction and redesign of a Diamond table, you can't have industry standard sized pockets. Also, I forgot to mention, Diamond does make single-piece tables. They are very good tables. But, again, they have the tight pockets. Another HUGE disadvantage to those single-piece Diamonds is, you need special equipment to move them. So, if ever you do move, you will need an installer on BOTH ends of the move who is both a) qualified to work on Diamond tables and b) has the necessary equipment to preform the job. I'm sure there those who would disagree with me. But, I'm looking at this from a purely practical standpoint. If your ONLY use for the table is for you to practice your game, sure. Go with Diamond. But, if you want something that - long term - is more for enjoyment, go with Olhausen.
@@CreativeRestorations again very viable information. I can afford the diamond dont get me wrong. but sure im going to practice a lot on my spare time, but eventually i will have guests over who wanna play pool and i want everyone too have an enjoyable experience. I feel if your pro am or pro and play tournaments for a living then yes get a diamond but if your me and just wanna get very good on standard regulation table then olhausen craftsmanship is more then obtainable. Should meet all my expectations and more probably id imagine. I too am looking for practicality. it sounds like diamond has a lot of gimmicks they use too make them sound as good as they are. How much tighter are diamond like half a ball or quarter of a ball?
I own a Diamond table with very tight pockets which can be pretty frustrating sometimes. Is it possible to have the corner pockets loosened, even just a bit,, or am I stuck with what I have?
Diamond designed their tables with the intention of their pockets being extremely tight. So, I don't think there's any way of enlarging them. At least, not without MAJOR reconstruction. That's one reason why I'm not a huge fan of their tables. Anyone can take a Brunswick or Olhausen (or any other brand, for that matter) and make the pockets tighter. And, the process is completely reversible. No harm. No foul. But, when you start tinkering with Diamond pockets to make them larger, you're talking about big changes that need to be made.
@@CreativeRestorations Thanks very much for your reply Doug. One other question if I may. On a table that's reversible... in order to loosen a corner pocket, is the long rail and short rail simply pulled away from each other slightly (after loosening the rail bolts) or is there more to it than that? Thanks again for your expert advice.
@@CreativeRestorations re: "reversible"... I was using your term from your previous post when you answered that, "And, the process is completely reversible. No harm. No foul.". My basic question is... is it a relatively simple process to physically loosen pockets that have previously been tightened on a table such as Brunswick or Olhausen? If so, what is the process?
Ok. I just wanted to make sure that we were using the same terms. If someone used this process to make the pockets more narrow, then, it's just a matter of removing the additional rail facings and recovering the rails. But, there are other ways of making the pockets more narrow. Almost all of them are non-reversible.
With shims?.. Yes.. That’s why extended rails is the best process for fighting a table.. Remember, all tables use one shim on each pocket facing to keep the rubber from bowing out over time.. When you add a 2nd shim to make a pocket tighter the pocket facing plays different.. And any difference is no good.. And if you live in high humidity areas the pockets will play significantly different..
@@peterwhitaker71 If you’re pleased, great.. I would still recommend new rubber and extended rails, if there is a table mechanic capable.. However, doing it when the table is scheduled to be recovered is what I would suggest.. Should cost about $300-$400 extra, but it’s a one time cost..
Hello Brother 👋 Great Great breakdown! I have in storage a Gold crown Victoria with Ball return, bought from a guy in Las Vegas around 10yrs ago! It belonged to a former champion, who signed signature underneath table! Perhaps you can link with me and we renew table & auction it off🤞 Let me know if you're interested
Sure! Provided your table is in otherwise "good" condition, replacing the rubber, rail facings, cloth, and *maybe* pockets will most assuredly make your table play like "almost" new.
Why in the world would I want my GCI to play like a Diamond table?!.. The GCI is the best pool table ever constructed, and the pockets are perfect.. 4.25 inches, deep shelf, plays tighter than any 4 inch Diamond pocket, and still plays fair..
I never said that I wanted any table to play like a Diamond. Quite frankly, I'm not crazy about Diamond tables. I say that in quite a few of my videos. But, a lot of people have bought into the hype that surrounds their tables and they want to buy an inexpensive table and give it tight pockets. Again, I wouldn't do it on my table. And, I agree with you. The GCI is one of the best (if not THE best) table ever made.
I'm in agreement! I'm not fond of the way Diamond tables play. However, some people like the tight pockets. UGG!!! If a customer is dead-set on having tighter pockets on their table (other than a Diamond), I generally recommend they do it this way because it's 100% reversible. If they don't like it later on down the road, they can switch it back with little effort. However, if they glue in extra wood and lengthen the rubber, it's a LOT more work to change it back. I think Diamond's pro pockets are frustrating for 90+% of people playing pool. If you're playing for money or just practicing, Sure. Play on a Diamond. Otherwise, play on standard size pockets.
At the very least, you would have to replace the cloth on the rails. And, again, it would depend on what type of cloth you have. You can't do this job without replacing the rail cloth.
Gold Crown VI - features longer rails which result in tighter pockets. Corner pocket 4.5"-4.625". Side pocket 5.0"-5.125".// Here in Canada, before their bankruptcy in easly 2000's, Dufferin of Canada found progress in new startup pool halls, sadly stealing sales from Brnswick. The 2 different table brands play like apples & oranges, as the Dufferin is seriously flawed in design, producing the dredded "Dufferin bobble", as the slate hole isn't cut deep enough for any perfectly hit ball to drop off the shelf & into the pocket. Plus the Dufferin uses floating slate construction & table frames have some plywood, hindering a level playing surface. A popular brand of table to avoid, at all cost. // Brusnwick Gold Crowns have tight, fair and perfect pockets, always been the benchmark in tables. I'd never buy a used Diamond over one. Many table designs, with the "wabble-bobble" pockets, are just a comprimised play & darn frustrating to play seriously on. I don't want my Brunswick table, to play like a Diamond, but I did enjoy this great info. video.
IDK I tried 2 different times to tighten the pockets on my 8 ft. with shims and couldn't stand it that way! Finally the last time I had work done on the table I had it done the correct way which is to extend the rails, it's a major job but well worth it in the end result. Pockets are now 4 1/4" with correct angles and play very well, can't really slop a ball in especially at speed. Also another problem I see here is you are working with chemicals over the table cloth without a drop cloth, not good!!!
Extending the rails is the best way to do it. But, for someone who wants to do it on a budget, this is still a viable option. Cloth that's being replaced (as this was) makes an EXCELLENT drop cloth! I would never take the chance of ruining good cloth by working with Barge glue right on top of it. Ain't my first rodeo!
Why would you want to ruin a perfectly good Brunswick. From table to table Diamonds play very different. With a good Brunswick, table to table you know what your getting.
Brunswick gold crowns play great. very neutral....why would you want to change it? They play better than diamonds I think. ....the side pockets on diamond tables are buckets. I have an old Brunswick heritage that plays tougher than any diamond I've played....corners pockets are set deep. And the way the rails are cut they spit the ball out all the time. The gold crown doesn't do this....it plays very fair. ...but not loose.
I'm inclined to agree with you. I personally prefer the way Brunswicks and Olhausens play over Diamonds. However, people think they have to have "tight" pockets in order to be a better player. Not true! Some of the greatest pool players to ever walk the earth honed their skills playing on "normal" pool tables. I don't care if Diamond offered to sponsor every one of my videos from now until the day I die, I'd turn them down! I think their tables are "gimmicky". And I always will!
@@CreativeRestorations what's worse is when people have their pockets shimmed in- correctly and it ruins the way the table plays...the ball doesn't react the same coming off the shims. Drives me nuts.
I tell people all the time, "It's your table. I'll do what you pay me to do. But, I don't recommend what you're wanting and here's why..." At least with this method of tightening the pockets, it's reversible. No permanent changes made to the table. And if the customer wants to put it back the way it was, no harm, no foul.
@@CreativeRestorations my buddy has a gold crown...he invites me to play on...I'm trying to get him to modify the pockets so they sound like leather drops when the ball falls in (satisfying click sound when ball hits the bottom.) I'm thinking cover the backs with leather. And glue some kind of washer possibly covered with thin cloth) to the bottom of the pocket. The plastic sound drives me nuts when the room is quiet
Many people don’t understand the deep shelf and it’s significance.. It’s intended to separate the cream players with the best strokes from the rest.. Having a great stroke and putting good top spin on the object ball will open up the pocket where it doesn’t seem too tight.. Whereas inferior strokes tend to bobble the object ball in the pocket..
Idk , I make your balls on diamonds pro cut ,than the old gold crown with slate at 29 and 1/16 . It's frankly quite laboring . But why is there no standard height for table slate . I'm not spending to much time on fundamentals every shot as apposed to the Shot itself
Making a Brunswick play like a diamond is a major downgrade and not worth the time, money and bs, since Diamond uses K66 profile cushion rubbers, whereas Brunswick mostly use K55 profile cushion rubbers, which respond to bank shots much better than K66 does.
I'm not a huge fan of Diamond tables. However, a lot of people are. Unfortunately, though, not everyone's budget will allow them to buy a Diamond. They have to settle for the next best thing. This video is just to show that you can make your Brunswick play more like a Diamond than what it does from the factory. What I'm showing in this video has been done for decades (MUCH longer than even Diamond has been in business). And, look, just because I'm not partial to Diamond tables, that doesn't mean I think they're "bad" tables. They aren't. They're great tables. They just aren't my preference.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as you add shims the shelf decreases. That being the case, wouldn't you have to alter (decrease) the angle from the slate to the top of the facing in order for the balls to pocket in the same manner as before adding extra shims?
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I use to work at Hard Times Billiards in Bellflower Ca. back in the late 90's, early 2000's. All Brunswick GC tables and 10 GC tournament tables for serious players only. Ernesto Dominguez worked on all the tables and he kept the pockets on the tournament side at 4". The best players in the world played/gambled here. I'll take a GC over a Diamond any day of the week.
I've heard of people "shimming" pockets before and I assume this is what they meant. Love these videos.
I tried this approach on my table. The bounce you get from the shims is considerably different than rubber. A decent solution if you don't want major surgery on your rails.
THANK YOU!
Hello,
Thank you for the great content on UA-cam.
I haven’t started renovating my pool table yet but will do in two weeks. I will be purchasing the cushions and cushion facings from your website. I already bought the cloth from the UK. Had I known about the website sooner I would have purchased it from your here.
Im really on the fence with the following. Is it worth adding the additional rail facings to mimic a pro table and if so will they last or become flimsy after a couple of years? My only concerns is having guest over playing on them and whether it’ll be too frustrating for them. Another option is to purchase some pocket reducers.
If I do decide to reduce the pockets do you recommend I increase the back would instead of adding the facings?
I look forward to hearing from you.
I’ve tried to send this via the option on the website but it appears to be showing me an error.
Regards,
G
I recently started competing, but we’ve had a Brunswick table for years. Competition is on diamond tables. threw me off so bad😂. I found a pool hall to practice on diamond tables
My pool hall has 9ft GC III's and Diamonds. My personal table is a beautiful 9ft GC VI. All play great with subtle differences. All these tables, gotta hit your shots clean or be rejected. I chose the GC VI for my home table because it's beautiful. Diamonds are nice but rather cookie cutter looking. Both are great tables. It's a matter of personal taste for the serious player. Casual player? Get a table with 5 inch pockets so you can enjoy yourself.
10:36 Hands of a surgeon....lol!!!
Keep your diamond tables I've got two gold crown 4 s that are unbelievable
I'm with you. I'd much prefer playing on a GC than a Diamond. But, Diamond has managed to hype up the tight pockets so much that they've got a large number of people believing that feature makes for a great playing table. It doesn't! It makes for a VERY frustrating table to play on.
Diamonds (in my opinion) are overrated and overpriced!
If you replace the rubber on your rails do they come oversized to where u can leave extra at each pocket and tighten the pockets this way or do the rail sizes come standard with no extra material to cut off? Thanks love ur vids
I've had my Olhausen double-shimmed for 15 years now with 860 cloth (that's been recovered just once). And while I wouldn't trade it for a non-shimmed table, the shims mixed with Olhausen's natural pocket angle can make down-rail shots very frustrating. Especially when hit with any speed. Its amazing for practice, and keeping you sharp instead of lazy, but I do wish the angle was a little straighter - like the actual Diamonds, every-time I get that good ol' Olhausen Rattle. If you are doing this to your table and want it done right, do it the right way and use the second method he mentioned, or figure out a way to decrease the outer pocket width more than the inner pocket width (angled shims anyone?)
This is exactly what I came to look for. It would seem you'd want to cut the shims at an angle so the pocket is as you described. As soon as I saw the picture of the pocket with the balls, I thought "well that seems to be tapered funny." I came to the comments to make sure it wasn't just me.
@@section8usmc53 so about 4 months ago I caved in and did it. Took the cloth and rails off, cut shims at about a 5 deg angle with about a 15 degree slant to the miter saw to match the down angle of the rails. The olhausens are 1.5 inch subrails so the 2" (1.5" measured) planks worked perfectly. Glued them on, then added staples for security. Put new artimis rubber on cut to match the new angles, new featherstrips, and new 3/8 inch facings. The pockets are now 4", but honestly in some ways play easier than the 4.5" they were before. Much more fair now. No more olhausen rattle. Plays great really, and amazing for practice. I will probably have to get a pro to put new felt on though, I put new tourny blue 860 on it, and the bed cloth looks good, but I didn't do the best job on the rail cloth. But that said, I couldn't find anyone within 50 miles willing to do the work, many didn't even know what I was asking
Olhausen pockets are cut to make potting tougher I feel. Everyone said Diamonds are tight but I didn't notice any difference from my Olhausen. The widths might be different but there's more than just width to make a table tough. I believe there's 3 measurements that determine table toughness as per Dr Dave.
Does adding a 3mm and a 5mm together affect the acceptance of balls into the pockets. And wow I just noticed you’re adding the two to existing facing. I have 3mm facings now & was thinking about adding another 3mm to tighten the pockets but also thought about adding a 5mm instead of a 3mm to go even tighter but was worried about it affect correct acceptance. I guess it you added both it would be fine for me to add 5mm for a total of 10 which is less than the 16mm total you added. What’s your opinion? I’m at 4-9/16” now. Thx
Quick questions. Can the cabinet of a pool table be disassembled? I have a very tight turn into my basement.
Yes it can be taken completely apart you can move one if you have to in a regular size van
nah... Brunswick tables are more fun to play on. Plus the rails don't play short. You can get more draw. And you can hit a perfect firm shot down the rail and it actually goes in the pocket.
Brunswick tables always play great. Diamonds are not bad tho...just different.
Also have to take in consideration the rail rubber profile the height of the rail
Don't yet know what all ya have planned - But does that GALLON can of GLUE really need to sit IN the table cloth ?
We were recovering the table anyway. So, it wasn't a big deal to have the glue set there.
Hey I watch all your videos and I'm wondering if you can answer a question. I have a 9 foot c.l. bailey and I'm making pockets tight. I ordered ozone speed cloth one piece 104"×66" do you think I will have enough to cover rails?
I don't believe there's enough cloth there for a 4.5' x 9'. As a matter of fact, I'm positive that's not enough.
Apologies if you addressed this and I missed it, but I have a 9' table, unfortunately with 5inch pockets. I am in the process of narrowing them to 4.25 and I was told that the only good way to do this was to actually add wood to the rail facing for the rail rubber to adhere to. The rationale is that adding too much rubber facing makes balls act strangely when they contact that part of the rail rubber -- I guess it isn't quite as solid as having the rail rubber seated to wood. As a one pocket player I am particularly sensitive to this. Do you have any thoughts on the difference between adding extra rubber facings as you do here versus adding wood to the facing?
You said it. I'm a 1pocket player too. I did that to a brunswick pro 8 for a practice table...The proper thing to do is add model makers plywood to the rail ends and replacing the rubber cushions. (Model makers plywood comes in 4mm 5mm 6mm 8mm ect.) I went from 5 inch to 4.5 inch and it played great. The table mechanic did the final angle adjustments for the facing.
I have a '75 GCII with origonal rubber. As I understand it, the Super Speed cushions are real rubber and won't go bad. I am considering 1/4 inch shims each side. If in the future someone wants to remove the shims, can they save the cushions?
What about the angle of the rubber at the corner pockets? The corner pockets on my Connelly are wider than 2 balls, but the rubber angle diverges towards the playing surface. When I hit the balls with hard draw when cheating the pocket, the ball often jars in the corner pocket and doesn't fall.
The angle does make a difference. I have done this same thing on some tables, however I sand the new facings on a belt sander before gluing them on the old facings. Look up Olhausen rattle. when replace all the rubber, fix the angle on the wood instead of stacking facings which makes the pocket corner too hard.
Extreme draw puts extreme top spin on the object ball.. Meaning, if you’re hitting the target it should fall.. Now, if you have a deep shelf and a flanged opening, the could be a problem that requires new rubber, but a great stroke is what really solves that issue, IMO..
Why are diamond tables so expensive? And why did tournaments switch to them in the usa instead of olhausen? Im looking too buy a new table ive narrowed it down between olhausen and diamond? What's the difference in how they play besides the tighter pockets?
Diamonds are expensive because they're good tables made out of high quality materials and high quality craftsmanship. Are their prices justified? Not for me. I think Diamond went out of their way to fix problems that didn't exist. Do they roll true? When installed properly, yes. But, so does every other major manufacturer's table when installed properly.
If you're comparing properly installed 3 piece slate Diamonds to 3 piece slate Olhausens (or Brunswicks) the advantages claimed by Diamond become minimal at best. Personally, I find those advantages to be subjective rather than objective. I would be more interested in the quantifiable differences between the manufacturers. 1) Is there a quantifiable difference in how true the tables roll (NOT related to variances in cloth). 2) Quantifiable difference in the lifespan of the table itself. 3) Quantifiable difference in how well the finish holds up after "X" number of years of use.
Ease of installation is not and should not be the buyer's problem. So, any features that a manufacturers say aid in easier installation are mere gimmicks. They're designed to get more money out of you - the consumer. As evidenced by the 90 year history of the "modern" way of building a pool table (look up "T" rail pool tables to understand how tables were built prior to the 1930's), and the 180+ year history, effectiveness, and ease of installation of traditional 3 piece slate methods, there is NO practical advantage in using slate leveling bolts as opposed to wooden wedges. Also, there is no practical advantage in using mechanical leg leveling systems as opposed to flat wooden, plastic, or rubber shims under the legs of tables. Even simple leg levelers like those found on Brunswick Gold Crown tables are, in all actuality, more cosmetic rather than functional. Once a table is installed and is level, it shouldn't need to be re-leveled. So, unless you're moving your table a LOT (as you would with coin operated tables that go from one bar to another or get moved around within a bar for special functions or gatherings), having mechanical leg levelers is pointless (other than aesthetics).
As for your question regarding the switch in tournaments, that one is simple. It all comes down to which company is going to pony up the most money to sponsor the event. Part of the higher price you're paying for when buying a Diamond table is going to pay for marketing. And sponsoring tournaments is part of marketing.
Tighter pockets:
I find the idea of tighter pockets - outside of practicing your game - utterly ridiculous! I firmly believe that there should be industry standards for pool tables and the game of pool. Industry standards for pockets was established back in the 1930's. That standard has worked VERY well for almost a century. Why change it? With Diamond's tighter pockets, they've managed to make a great table to practice on; but, a very frustrating table to actually play on. If I were to put it on gun terms, it would be like using a bench gun for hunting. Diamonds are that ULTRA-HIGH precision tool that's great for practicing your accuracy. But, for everyday use, completely frustrating to play on. Oh, and your friends who don't really play pool, they'll be absolutely MISERABLE trying to play on a tight pocket Diamond!
Ultimately it's your choice. Both Diamond and Olhausen make good quality tables. But, if it were my choice, I'd go with Olhausen.
@@CreativeRestorations wow thank you. Your the first and only person too ever pick olhausen over diamond. Great information absolutely phenomenal in detail. Your right theres a standard and regulation for pool tables why diamond decides tighter pockets is better, is beyond my comprehension. I want to get really good for my own self satisfaction not to go pro. Maybe play some local tournaments hopefully win one or more in the future. But yeah i want an enjoyable table not a frustrating table. Plus olhausen have a lifetime warranty on what exactly? im not to sure. Plus im moving to Tennessee and olhausen made or assembled there i wanna support local businesses. Your the only person to convince to not get diamond and im glad you did. Olhausen seem like very high end tables so i Can't go wrong. Plus it will leave me thousands of dollars left over to buy pool cues and balls and other accessories for my man cave..
It really makes no sense you have all these people from my dads generation grew up around pool tables, now all of a sudden he coms over and i have a diamond hes never played on tighter pockets hes gunna hate my table and never wanna play on it and i dont blame him thats not regulations.. i always grew up on 9ft tables so i hate playing on 6,7, even 8ft tables sure you should be able too adjust too any table some might say. But the fact of the matter is i always thought regulations tables were 9 by 4.5ft so why tournaments even allow pros too play on small bar tables is beyond me it wasn't like that in the 70's-90's all the pros only played on 9ft tables not valley bar tables like today.. i feel regulations have went out the window the past decade.. well in California i guarantee the pros or ams would never play on these bar tables out here they never roll true, they never been releveled after being moved hundreds of times, never been refelted, pockets barely hanging on lumps in the cloth or missing cloth its a disaster too play on.. i wish i was making this up i cant believe the disrespect one has for a pool table unbelievable i hate seeing miss treated pool tables its sad..
There are practicing aids that one can use to make standard pockets tighter. So, if you want to practice on a table with tighter pockets, you can do that - without sacrificing enjoyable play outside of practice. With Diamond tables, you ALWAYS have tight pockets. And, as I've commented elsewhere on this video, outside of MAJOR reconstruction and redesign of a Diamond table, you can't have industry standard sized pockets.
Also, I forgot to mention, Diamond does make single-piece tables. They are very good tables. But, again, they have the tight pockets. Another HUGE disadvantage to those single-piece Diamonds is, you need special equipment to move them. So, if ever you do move, you will need an installer on BOTH ends of the move who is both a) qualified to work on Diamond tables and b) has the necessary equipment to preform the job.
I'm sure there those who would disagree with me. But, I'm looking at this from a purely practical standpoint. If your ONLY use for the table is for you to practice your game, sure. Go with Diamond. But, if you want something that - long term - is more for enjoyment, go with Olhausen.
@@CreativeRestorations again very viable information. I can afford the diamond dont get me wrong. but sure im going to practice a lot on my spare time, but eventually i will have guests over who wanna play pool and i want everyone too have an enjoyable experience. I feel if your pro am or pro and play tournaments for a living then yes get a diamond but if your me and just wanna get very good on standard regulation table then olhausen craftsmanship is more then obtainable. Should meet all my expectations and more probably id imagine. I too am looking for practicality. it sounds like diamond has a lot of gimmicks they use too make them sound as good as they are. How much tighter are diamond like half a ball or quarter of a ball?
I own a Diamond table with very tight pockets which can be pretty frustrating sometimes. Is it possible to have the corner pockets loosened, even just a bit,, or am I stuck with what I have?
Diamond designed their tables with the intention of their pockets being extremely tight. So, I don't think there's any way of enlarging them. At least, not without MAJOR reconstruction. That's one reason why I'm not a huge fan of their tables. Anyone can take a Brunswick or Olhausen (or any other brand, for that matter) and make the pockets tighter. And, the process is completely reversible. No harm. No foul. But, when you start tinkering with Diamond pockets to make them larger, you're talking about big changes that need to be made.
@@CreativeRestorations Thanks very much for your reply Doug. One other question if I may. On a table that's reversible... in order to loosen a corner pocket, is the long rail and short rail simply pulled away from each other slightly (after loosening the rail bolts) or is there more to it than that? Thanks again for your expert advice.
I don't understand the question. When you say "table that's reversible" and "long rail and short rail" I don't know what you mean by those terms.
@@CreativeRestorations re: "reversible"... I was using your term from your previous post when you answered that, "And, the process is completely reversible. No harm. No foul.".
My basic question is... is it a relatively simple process to physically loosen pockets that have previously been tightened on a table such as Brunswick or Olhausen? If so, what is the process?
Ok. I just wanted to make sure that we were using the same terms.
If someone used this process to make the pockets more narrow, then, it's just a matter of removing the additional rail facings and recovering the rails. But, there are other ways of making the pockets more narrow. Almost all of them are non-reversible.
Will the balls bounce differently in the area where the extra facing material is?
Only slightly. Not really enough to make a difference in your game.
@@CreativeRestorations Thanks. I'm tightening up my GC IV this week. Your video is really helpful.
With shims?.. Yes.. That’s why extended rails is the best process for fighting a table..
Remember, all tables use one shim on each pocket facing to keep the rubber from bowing out over time.. When you add a 2nd shim to make a pocket tighter the pocket facing plays different.. And any difference is no good.. And if you live in high humidity areas the pockets will play significantly different..
@@jacobjones5269 I extended the rail with wooden shims and then added the composite rubber shims. I'm pleased with the result.
@@peterwhitaker71
If you’re pleased, great.. I would still recommend new rubber and extended rails, if there is a table mechanic capable.. However, doing it when the table is scheduled to be recovered is what I would suggest..
Should cost about $300-$400 extra, but it’s a one time cost..
Hello Brother 👋
Great Great breakdown! I have in storage a Gold crown Victoria with Ball return, bought from a guy in Las Vegas around 10yrs ago! It belonged to a former champion, who signed signature underneath table!
Perhaps you can link with me and we renew table & auction it off🤞
Let me know if you're interested
I have an older pool table, is it feasible to upgrade it to play like a newer table?
Sure! Provided your table is in otherwise "good" condition, replacing the rubber, rail facings, cloth, and *maybe* pockets will most assuredly make your table play like "almost" new.
Why in the world would I want my GCI to play like a Diamond table?!.. The GCI is the best pool table ever constructed, and the pockets are perfect.. 4.25 inches, deep shelf, plays tighter than any 4 inch Diamond pocket, and still plays fair..
I never said that I wanted any table to play like a Diamond. Quite frankly, I'm not crazy about Diamond tables. I say that in quite a few of my videos. But, a lot of people have bought into the hype that surrounds their tables and they want to buy an inexpensive table and give it tight pockets.
Again, I wouldn't do it on my table. And, I agree with you. The GCI is one of the best (if not THE best) table ever made.
Made in China junk
If you have a great plan Gold Crown leave it alone don't let anybody tell you to change the rubber especially if it's a one or a two
I'm in agreement! I'm not fond of the way Diamond tables play. However, some people like the tight pockets. UGG!!! If a customer is dead-set on having tighter pockets on their table (other than a Diamond), I generally recommend they do it this way because it's 100% reversible. If they don't like it later on down the road, they can switch it back with little effort. However, if they glue in extra wood and lengthen the rubber, it's a LOT more work to change it back.
I think Diamond's pro pockets are frustrating for 90+% of people playing pool. If you're playing for money or just practicing, Sure. Play on a Diamond. Otherwise, play on standard size pockets.
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what is the cost of this job?
It varies depending on cloth choice. But, just to add in the rail facings during a recover job, it's only about $50-75 additional.
@@CreativeRestorations what about cost of the rails only(get pockets tight) , no new cloth
At the very least, you would have to replace the cloth on the rails. And, again, it would depend on what type of cloth you have.
You can't do this job without replacing the rail cloth.
Gold Crown VI - features longer rails which result in tighter pockets. Corner pocket 4.5"-4.625". Side pocket 5.0"-5.125".// Here in Canada, before their bankruptcy in easly 2000's, Dufferin of Canada found progress in new startup pool halls, sadly stealing sales from Brnswick. The 2 different table brands play like apples & oranges, as the Dufferin is seriously flawed in design, producing the dredded "Dufferin bobble", as the slate hole isn't cut deep enough for any perfectly hit ball to drop off the shelf & into the pocket. Plus the Dufferin uses floating slate construction & table frames have some plywood, hindering a level playing surface. A popular brand of table to avoid, at all cost. // Brusnwick Gold Crowns have tight, fair and perfect pockets, always been the benchmark in tables. I'd never buy a used Diamond over one. Many table designs, with the "wabble-bobble" pockets, are just a comprimised play & darn frustrating to play seriously on. I don't want my Brunswick table, to play like a Diamond, but I did enjoy this great info. video.
IDK I tried 2 different times to tighten the pockets on my 8 ft. with shims and couldn't stand it that way! Finally the last time I had work done on the table I had it done the correct way which is to extend the rails, it's a major job but well worth it in the end result. Pockets are now 4 1/4" with correct angles and play very well, can't really slop a ball in especially at speed. Also another problem I see here is you are working with chemicals over the table cloth without a drop cloth, not good!!!
Extending the rails is the best way to do it. But, for someone who wants to do it on a budget, this is still a viable option.
Cloth that's being replaced (as this was) makes an EXCELLENT drop cloth! I would never take the chance of ruining good cloth by working with Barge glue right on top of it. Ain't my first rodeo!
Why would you want to ruin a perfectly good Brunswick. From table to table Diamonds play very different.
With a good Brunswick, table to table you know what your getting.
@0:27 that break more weak than Efren Reyes weak ass. If the cue ball don't pop up in the air at least 3 inches, it ain't a real break. 😂😂😂
Earl Strickland disliked this video
Brunswick gold crowns play great. very neutral....why would you want to change it? They play better than diamonds I think. ....the side pockets on diamond tables are buckets.
I have an old Brunswick heritage that plays tougher than any diamond I've played....corners pockets are set deep. And the way the rails are cut they spit the ball out all the time. The gold crown doesn't do this....it plays very fair. ...but not loose.
I'm inclined to agree with you. I personally prefer the way Brunswicks and Olhausens play over Diamonds. However, people think they have to have "tight" pockets in order to be a better player. Not true! Some of the greatest pool players to ever walk the earth honed their skills playing on "normal" pool tables.
I don't care if Diamond offered to sponsor every one of my videos from now until the day I die, I'd turn them down! I think their tables are "gimmicky". And I always will!
@@CreativeRestorations what's worse is when people have their pockets shimmed in- correctly and it ruins the way the table plays...the ball doesn't react the same coming off the shims. Drives me nuts.
I tell people all the time, "It's your table. I'll do what you pay me to do. But, I don't recommend what you're wanting and here's why..."
At least with this method of tightening the pockets, it's reversible. No permanent changes made to the table. And if the customer wants to put it back the way it was, no harm, no foul.
@@CreativeRestorations my buddy has a gold crown...he invites me to play on...I'm trying to get him to modify the pockets so they sound like leather drops when the ball falls in (satisfying click sound when ball hits the bottom.) I'm thinking cover the backs with leather. And glue some kind of washer possibly covered with thin cloth) to the bottom of the pocket. The plastic sound drives me nuts when the room is quiet
Many people don’t understand the deep shelf and it’s significance.. It’s intended to separate the cream players with the best strokes from the rest.. Having a great stroke and putting good top spin on the object ball will open up the pocket where it doesn’t seem too tight.. Whereas inferior strokes tend to bobble the object ball in the pocket..
Idk , I make your balls on diamonds pro cut ,than the old gold crown with slate at 29 and 1/16 .
It's frankly quite laboring .
But why is there no standard height for table slate .
I'm not spending to much time on fundamentals every shot as apposed to the Shot itself
Making a Brunswick play like a diamond is a major downgrade and not worth the time, money and bs, since Diamond uses K66 profile cushion rubbers, whereas Brunswick mostly use K55 profile cushion rubbers, which respond to bank shots much better than K66 does.
I'm not a huge fan of Diamond tables. However, a lot of people are. Unfortunately, though, not everyone's budget will allow them to buy a Diamond. They have to settle for the next best thing. This video is just to show that you can make your Brunswick play more like a Diamond than what it does from the factory. What I'm showing in this video has been done for decades (MUCH longer than even Diamond has been in business). And, look, just because I'm not partial to Diamond tables, that doesn't mean I think they're "bad" tables. They aren't. They're great tables. They just aren't my preference.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as you add shims the shelf decreases. That being the case, wouldn't you have to alter (decrease) the angle from the slate to the top of the facing in order for the balls to pocket in the same manner as before adding extra shims?
i would not want my brunswick gold crown pool table to play like a diamond pool table
Me either! But, hey, it ain't my table.