A Soho Forum discussion of COVID with Tom Woods
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- Опубліковано 22 кві 2024
- IMPORTANT UPDATE: "The Soho Forum regrets to inform you of a significant change to
tonight's debate between Brent Orrell and Tom Woods.
Unfortunately, Brent Orrell will not be able to
participate as his granddaughter tragically passed away
over the weekend. Our hearts go out to Brent and his
family during this difficult time.
In light of this, we've made adjustments to the event to
ensure it can still proceed. Our director Gene Epstein
will read, word-for-word, the script that Brent
prepared, along with the slides Brent submitted. Tom
Woods will then make his case for the negative. In lieu of an Oxford-style before/after voting, we will
extend the Q&A portion and conclude the program
with a 5-mins summation from Tom Woods."
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AEI's Brent Orrell says lockdowns were prudent. Libertarian podcaster Tom Woods disagrees in this live debate in New York City.
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Brent Orrell of the American Enterprise Institute and podcaster and author Tom Woods debate the resolution, "Government-imposed restrictions during the Covid pandemic were prudent and essential."
Taking the affirmative is Brent Orrell, a senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute focusing on job training, work force development, and criminal justice reform. Orrell has over 20 years of experience in the executive and legislative branches of government and was nominated by President George W. Bush to lead the Employment and Training Administration at the U.S. Department of Labor. During the COVID-19 pandemic, he wrote extensively on the impact of the disease on working conditions and the role of social distancing policies and practices in protecting worker and public health.
Taking the negative is Tom Woods, the host of The Tom Woods Show and author of 13 books, including latest Diary of a Psychosis: How Public Health Disgraced Itself During COVID Mania. He won the $50,000 first-place prize in the Templeton Enterprise Awards for his book The Church and the Market and was the winner of the 2019 Hayek Lifetime Achievement Award, given in Vienna by the Hayek Institute and the Austrian Economics Center.
Let's hear it for Gene faithfully presenting a side he presumably disagrees with.
Big fan of Tom and a bitter opponent of Covid policies. I’m really depressed for what happened to Mr. Orrell’s family, and also that we didn’t have a proper debate.
The guy who mentioned Korea (the city of Daegu):
i'm korean. Daegu lckdwn for 3 days. incomparable to NYC. Koreans msk out of courtesy not bc it works. and before 2020 we mostly have used msks for 1. dust season 2. plastic surgery. we didnt' mask widely until the spike in cases in Daegu (KDCA used that very low spike to panic pple).
Even in March 9th 2020, one of the chief scientists in korea did a press conference saying travel restriction was useless. He admitted failure after the 1week Seoul lckdwn - cases already have reached its peak by the time lckdwn was implemented.
in fact, KDCA didn't even bother checking koreans in garment industry who had visited Wuhan (a big textile city) in 2019 - there are pple who had ILI (influenza like illness) back in Q4 of 2019, which could indicate wider and earlier seroprevalence in korea already.
If you actually lived in Korea, you would know that koreans complied w/ NPI far more in Q1 2022 than in Q1 2020. cases kept rising despite 99% npi compliance. you can literally chart compliance rate and see NPIs never slowed cases. think about it: Q1 2022 - koreans had 99% npi compliance and 98% vx rate. we had the largest mortality and excess mortality in korean's history since the Korean war.
Thanks for this excellent comment.
Koreans are hopelessly blue-pilled despite so many govt shenanigans
Prayers for the Orrell family
Destroyed the corporate media and google. Great job Tom
"We did the best we could"...does not hold even a little bit of water. Some of us were following data from Dec/19 and could see clear trends. China, Iran, cruise ships and Italy all clearly showed that the vast majority of the victims were OLDER than the average age of mortality. Young, healthy, victims were so rare, as to be a statistical anomaly. Every day, every bit of data (even the government massaged data) showed this trend again and again.
If I could see this, so could they...which means that they KNEW that lockdowns, masks and vax's were not only a waste of time and effort, but counterproductive on a colossal (and criminal) scale.
Add to that doctors literally lying to patients by the thousands...and you get a perfect storm of destruction of our faith in government, experts and the medical community.
Well said
Yeah man keep this energy. Many of us were following starting late 19 and early 20. This is why it caught me by surprise. I was like whoa...what....wait. But the momentum had taken off and I watched (from CA) in amazement. THEN I saw ppl being smeared for saying lets slow down think about what we are doing.
I'm here for Tom!!!!!!!!!! 🗽🗽🗽
That makes many more of us! Tom 👏
Trust the Science?... More like Trust the Silenced.
Condolences to the Orrell family. My heart breaks. The change of plans was handled very well here. That said, Woods destroyed all opposition and was a pleasure to watch.
"Abraham Lincoln suspended habeas corpus to save a union that preserved liberty." Excuse me, what? Subjugating independent states into a union *preserves* liberty? Are you sure about that?
That assertion was a giant facepalm 🤦♂️
Yeah, it’s a horrible example that is very commonly believed.
It was a blessing to be on Tom's show. I'm glad I got to share my family and friends story. I wish I could've seen a good debate!!
Imagine that, tyranny works to destroy liberty, but has no general benefit to the people.
❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤ TOM WOODS a treasure forever
The GOAT.
I hope no Libertarian genuinely believes lockdowns deserve defense. I understand in debates we sometimes take positions for the purpose of discussion. I hope this was the case here.
Unfortunately, there are.
@@ChimpOnComputerThey're not Libertarian by definition, though they may self-identify.
Just read ‘Diary of a Psychosis’. I thought it would be enraging, however I found it cathartic. Great book!
...I was wondering why no one had been talking about this
The lady from sweden is not considering many confounders. let's explore:
#1. Sweden had [mortality displacement] from 2019. Sweden had very low mortality in 2019 against their expected avg, and thus dxs that should have seen in 2019 had 'harvesting effect' toward 2020 mortality. so the observed excess dxs in Sweden in early months can be explained by mortality displacement due to the low all-cause mortality in the previous year. sweden had the lowest excess in 2019 of all nordic countries.
#2. Sweden has always had higher mortality than other nordic countries even before 2020. among the nordic countries, Sweden is the biggest country, has the most flight and transportation connections, most population density, most immigrants, most commerce.
#3. If you analyze sweden's mortality by [native vs foreign] born, we see that the highest cv mortality in sweden is seen in [male immigrants, age 65 or older]. and Sweden has the largest immigrants of all nordic countries (in fact i believe is it the top in all europe). (also, i dislike comparing different regions, but if you compare excess asmr of sweden female vs new zealand female, sweden did better.)
#4. sweden's [life expectancy estimate] is the highest among nordics. the lady ignores this, and also gets incorrect: sweden had the 2nd lowest excess. not last. so she still needs to explain why two other nordics didn't do better than sweden.
#5. we should never forget to compare a nation to its own past years, in order to see justification of panic and excessive policies. Sweden's 2020 had 918 excess dxs per 100k. whereas Sweden's 2015: 923, 2014: 918, 2013: 947, 2012: 976, 2011: 963, 2010: 981 excess dxs per 100k. So Sweden's 2020 should never be seen as 'bloodbath'. Sweden did very well compared to it's owns past.
ps. nicargua didnt lckdwn. tanzania, nepal, belarus - all didn't lckdwn and did very well. peru had the harshes lckdwn and did the worst.
By far the biggest mistake they did in Sweden in 2020 was that they locked up the elderly in the nursing homes and killed them with excessive medication. Patient couldn't breath, so they gave them morphine, until they died, and not oxygen. They didn't have oxygen in the nursing home, so they gave them morphine instead. All this while being hostage. No one could visit them. This was the official policy - CRAZY!
My numbers for excessive mortality for Sweden for 2020 compared to 2019 was slightly higher. November December was extremely low. If the year had lasted 1 more day, there would have be no excess deaths in 2020. My number for Norway was 400 fewer funerals in 2020 than in 2019 - there was no real epidemic in the streets. My numbers for funerals the US in 2020 were perfectly normal - no excess deaths, or clearly within normal expectations. The excess death rate didn't increase before they started jabbing people.
Sincerest condolences to Brent and the Orrell family. Truly a tragedy. And love to his sweet granddaughter.
3x5 index card of allowable opinion
Shredded
Prayers for you all 😢 Thank you so very much for sharing this with U.S.
God's Blessing For You Always 🙏
To the question ''are the measures justified if it was proven beyond doubt that they worked?''
I would say no. Since if these measures make sense then the overwhelming majority of people would follow the guidelines voluntarily.
New York had the worst outcomes due to COVID of jurisdictions of its size.
Not surprising, S hole cities producing S hole results.
UA-cam censors comments on every channel.
You and me both, brother. They actually sent me messages that they were "worried" about the things I said.
Apparently they don't like libertarians or Christians ...no shock there!
At least it's not Reddit
They don't give me a reason, and I still get notifications.
YT censors are 100% S&E!
There are forbidden words you are not allowed to use.😷
Tom Woods is the best. I wish he was my older brother.
If he was my older brother, my parents would say things like, "Why can't you be more like Tom?" 🤣
What crazy circumstances to have the debate
Great job Tom.
I have not seen a single doctor or scientist on the lockdown and mask side, even once over the past 4+ years, give an argument half as comprehensive, nuanced, or persuasive as Tom's work on this topic.
Operation warp speed at its finest, your body is the new battlefield, not your safety but everyone else’s, why did mask go away if it only saved one life?
Operation Warp Speed, aside from being government funded was a good thing (cutting red tape so that potentially life saving medicines could be developed in record time), it's just that the product of it shouldn't be mandated. If you want to try it you should be free to do so, if you don't want to take the risks of an experimental new medicine you should also be free to make that choice.
Reminder the U.S. Government soends $205,000 a SECOND.
"In sweden social distancing is the norm"
I have work 4 years in Sweden I don't there is significant difference with other countries.
Good old U-Toobe has once again felt the need to insert Canada's grossly untrue propaganda about the thing. Stalin and Hitler would have loved this platform.
And they've inserted a link to the CDC covid guidance in the US.
No Google, your misinformation regarding The Coof isn't accurate
It really sucks that the other guy couldn't be there to get spanked by Tom, but when it comes to family one must have their priorities in line. So sad about his granddaughter...
I doubt he would have had much fun had he been present. Tom Woods, like most Libertarians are famous for never backing the wrong horse.
I can't wait to watch Glen dismantle Doucheowitz! Glen isn't LP, but he sure as hell debates like one.
C o m m e n t i s c e n s o r e d.
Antony Fauci: "Maybe they were doing things outdors." -> That's hilarious.
WOODS WOODS WOODS
I agree with Mr. Woods - Many, millions, were jumping up and down yelling that this is all wrong and were shouted down and silenced/censored beyond belief. We purged our military/LE/medical staff of free thinkers and that is very alarming as now we have a group of yes men and woman in those positions - Yikes!
Ah well it would appear that Reason will not prohibit online viewing of this particular SOHO forum, at least nobody asked for paperwork at this point in the day.
Me and my group were sitting behind the guy with the parrot. What a great parrot!
The funny thing is I think she proves his point completely and. There are so many things that are not being taken into account by these quote unquote experts that they literally have no idea what they're talking about. And yet we completely shut down the whole world when they have no idea what they're talking about. Time doesn't need to take in more data points he doesn't need to take in more aspects of the argument. He's got more than enough to show that what's going on doesn't match up with what the experts say.
2:44 Starts here
"Its time to set fire to the index card of allowable opinion".
2:46 should have been trimmed from this.
Yeah what was that woman prattle?
During Covid free money handouts, the stock markets hit all time highs while most production was locked down because that's where all the money was going for many, which doesn't cause other prices to go up, but the stock prices did go up.
the guy with the bird on his shoulder...NYC people.
Shout out bird guy
55:50
Gene has a perfect 10/10 old man shuffle
1:24:55 "would we look back on 2020 as just a bad flu season.."
If cov had been the one to have happened in 1918 no one would have noticed
just the tip of the iceberg...