Why does this Map have a square Missing? - A Map Mystery
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- Опубліковано 3 чер 2024
- Welcome to another Map waffle. This week we stumbled across an 1881 Map which took 30 years to draw. So how exactly can it be boring. YOu can see the Maps at Steve Marshalls Amazin website here: exploringavebury.com/ac-smith-... and then go visit his facebook page here: / exploringavebury
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You can't date bricks, I nearly choked on my biscuit !
Size, style and design have changed over years, they went from hand made to mass produced, colour changed, firing methods changed, take a photo and research when you get home.
A brick is not just a brick.
Oh and Geomagnetically because they've been fired, but that is the very sciencey way to get an exact date.
It is to Father Jack ;-)
The actual quote from Paul is "I can't date bricks' which doesn't imply that bricks are undatable...
the second Paul goes "here's the map" I hear Jay and Mark sing "map men, map men"... Would definitely love a colab with Jay Foreman about some map stuff some day :D
I'll second that!
@@YannaTarassi me too
With the frequency Jay makes videos I’m guessing he has more interesting things to do.
Fascinating,. 💜 Shame about the interference from the redhead.
I would LOVE this!
4:20 that cromlech "n" on the Bye Hill Down stood there for 4,500 years until some guy called by at the farm with a traction engine and jib crane for hire and the farmer said "great, you could get rid of that pile of stones in Bye Hill field, just dump them in the hedge."
Recording the absence of something is still an important part of the scientific method. A future Paul walking down there in 100 years time will have your record of what you didn't see. If they have some more advanced technology to examine the area then they may find something and know how it had changed over 200 years. Thanks for your work.
The sluice was there to control the water into the retaining square pond downstream. You might not have seen or noticed that the mixed woodland marked 392 1.781 on the map at 10:24 seconds in, is in fact called 'Brewer's Pit', which might be a BIG clue as to what the sluice might have been used for. A small 4-inch pipe would be all that was needed to carry the water to the south of the stream Wood. That pond was probably clean water collected upstream from the village of Hilmarton, where the water might possibly have been contaminated with effluent. I have posted a screen grab of that wood and the sluice in a PM on your Facebook page Paul. If, like I have done, you research brewers of the 17th century from Hilmarton and those brewers raising a Militia of Horse you might get further forward in your research?
Avebury! I’ve been there! And as a yank who spent a grand total of 12 days in England . It excites the heck out of me that we have walked the same ground.
It's horrifying how much of our ancient past, particularly burial mounds, has been destroyed by intensive farming, especially by deep ploughing since the Second World War.
It is sad, but equally it's always been the way that history has become ever fainter as time progresses, and we are adding more and more to history every day. Maybe one day one of the rat people who inherited the planet after global warming killed off all us big animals will dig up a bus station and wonder what religion we practised there.
@@Milamberinx I love that approach having seen archaeologists find religious significance in everything they cannot explain!
Do you not want to be fed, then? People have been robbing sites for millennia. Sometimes to clear fields, sometimes for building stones, and sometimes looking for wealth. It called progress, apparently.
My Grandpa had a farm in Missouri and burials used to erode out of the plowing. We were the closest people to tribal relatives so the government told us it was our responsibility and would not send in archaeologists. Coincidentally, that became my first real Archaeological project. Reburying our ancient relatives because nobody else cared. I wish we could have recorded these sites instead of just reburying them and loosing all the knowledge we could have gained from such contact across millennia.
I like these little challenges; “what is the sluice for?”. There are few clues on the maps but my best bet is irrigation. There is a square pond close by, just on the up-stream side. With the sluice raising the water level then a small channel could feed water across to the pond.
Other possibilities is an old mill (no evidence) or fish farming (ummm, possible but less likely).
I also note by 1923 the OS started referring to it as a “dam”, so it was clearly being maintained for some reason.
I’ll stick with irrigation (to fill the pond).
Keep these teasers coming please, and thanks again for another brill video.
There is another possibility. In our village we have the remains of a sluice just above the village, and many of the mechanical parts remain. The sluice was lowered at night, causing the brook to back up in the valley above it. In the morning a man would be paid to open it after the houses had emptied their chamber pots, to wash the night soil through the village and away. In short it was a public health measure, and fell into disuse once mains drainage was installed.
@@hectorthorverton4920 that is interesting!
@@hectorthorverton4920 Interesting indeed.
I'm also guessing irrigation, probably of the two fields to the Northwest of the sluice and pond/tank. Number two on my list would be water for animals in the vicinity of the pond/tank.
Or maybe constructed to form a sheep dip ?
Nice Rock Garden! Those Neolithic People Loved Boulders!
ha ha ha, they sure did!!
Thanks for putting in so much effort on this. Finding nothing much at the end was an interesting twist!
SPOILER ALERT DUDE!!!!!!!!😁😆😆
You two always go the extra mile even if there’s nothing there. Brilliant!
Keep up the quirky videos. I love how Rebecca passes you the map 😂
Now that tool some messing around at avebury
The map at 'sluice' seems to show a pipe (probably buried) leading to a reservoir and on again. I'd suggest the water level was raised to the pipe and the sluice used to control the flow in flood conditions. I'm pretty sure there is something similar deep on Bodmin Moor literally in the middle of nowhere. And the same principle is used on the leats on Dartmoor.
I'd say the most boring place was pretty interesting.
Thank you for the translations Rebecca. I usually get lost watching these videos without the clear explanations.
Sunday evening entertainment..
NEVER fails and tbis was really different and interesting. Thank you for all the work behind the scenes. Greatly appreciated
Thanks Pauline. Very kind.
Brilliant Paul, love the back and forth with Rebecca that wasn't boring and the video itself wasn't boring. Very informative.
That they enjoy making these videos does come through. 😁
My thoughts exactly.Very well produced, written and edited.
I love the word play in your username.
Thank you for your walk around some wonderful country with some amazing early history remnants of a forgotten age. Love his mapping and the mystery of why many of the locations now show nothing like what has been described. Many years ago I purchased an onionskin-like paper map of Somerset, England produced by John Speed in 1610. Interesting not just because of the features and towns that can be seen but the old names that are no longer used or else have been absorbed once the Industrial Revolution took place. I bought it because my forebears lived around Wells and localities. Have you seen this map series?
PS: Love the B reel provided by Rebecca because you hadn't asked the questions while shooting the video. Too funny.
Now are Paul and Rebecca geting horses for the next 10 years of exploration ?
Hahaha... I'm game
suilce would moderate flow - note how sometimes in summer the land can dry, or winter rainfall can be very heavy, so allowing flood of land for sediments to fields or water for animals or fish , etc
Ah understood. Thank you
Thank goodness you had a henge handy to show the map.
Always useful
Alternative hypothesis: AC Smith did not map that rectangle because, like Rebecca, he wanted to leave out the letter "P". (-:
😂
I was all set to write.. "Wot? No Roman roads?"..and then you went and mentioned one. Bugger!
I'd like to know what that dome was in someone's allotment, (allotment bingo anyone 😊 ) and the map seemed to show either a cistern or a pond near that sluice. Great video as usual folks👍
Ha, we stood and looked at that for an age
It looked like a Sarsen stone that had been on a lathe!
Perhaps a pier cap from the gatepost of a grand house ?
Looks like corroded aluminium and slightly oval, possibly the head off a droptank or front part of a plane?
I really enjoy these and look forward to seeing them every week. Thank you Paul & Rebecca.
The space between the footbridge and the Ford would equate to a drovers track that has subsequently fallen into disuse and been parcelled off as part of the various enclosures acts that happened between the 17th an 19th centuries. It takes a 90 degree turn left at the place marked as "Foghamshire".
Proof it is possible to collaborate successfully when half the team decide they want to work from home
I have a series of maps used by an ancestor to navigate the railway line north through the Lake District including Shap. The surveyors were all mounted on horses.
One interesting fact I can tell you about Hilmarton. 30 years ago, I used to work at the garage there.
Oh, and it is 1 mile away from New Zealand.
@03:41 I collect very old books , would guess there are some old ones in the background looks like some of the shelves in my library, hello from down under
Love a good old map! Usually leads to something interesting! Amazing scenery as usual! I like how you make each video different and always entertaining but still informative!
Back in the early 70s when my older brother was in the RAF he used to rent a cottage in Hilmarton. I stayed for a week or so and can confirm it's boring!
I have no idea why UA-cam decided to recommend a video to me I watched ages ago, but... I watched it and I was entertained again ^^
The only reason I can think of to build a sluice is to power a mill. That little bit of land may not be as boring as you think.
Rinse stuff.
Loved that thanks.. I loved the bridge, big or small I like ‘em. Also love how you two work together makes it all so enjoyable. Thanks for taking me along. Please stay safe and take care
Paul, I really was hopeful you would find something, or even something recent that has put a lasting mark on the land. I'm pretty sure Rebecca would have. I love your work, you couldn't find a more satisfying job, even if there was nothing to find. Thanks till next time, take care.
Twenty years ago I went to Avebury, saw the history on offer, brilliant. Today I went to google maps to have an aeriel take on it. Just looking around the farmland, there are a lot of large stones in many paddocks, and then paddocks with nothing, hay making or ploughing must be a pain with all those obstacles in the way, but you can see where buildings or stones have maybe been. I've found I'm not really suited to looking for something when I don't know what it is that I'm looking for. Better at watching vlogs.
So sad to see all those not boring features gone now. When having the chance I would have liked to look for them. Not to be and the vlog was really interresting!
Keep the good vlogging going in your own way of thinking and making.
Sounds like something out of Monty Python, ‘the most boring place in England’, so boring, they didn’t bother to map it!
Why would somebody remove a significant piece of history? Very interesting video. I watch every Sunday.
Nothing boring at all. You made this explore so enjoyable. Lovely countryside. What a work and research you put into this for us. Thank you.
Probably for a long gone mill. The river bed is deep there and they’d be able to back up enough water for an hours operation of a small mill. Sometimes they dug small mill ponds to contain the water, there’s a few round where I live. Just a thought!
Definitely adds up. Just a tad frustrating we couldn't find any more clues
First thing that came to my mind was a Sheep wash.
How is it you can make a boring site so interesting! Loved it, thanks Paul and Rebecca.
Through and fascinating. Worth coming in from the sun for 😁☀️
Such a fantastic channel. I love watching whatever you out our, because it's always interesting. It's calming too. Such a huge effort to make each one. I don't know how many takes you do when you walk and talk, but they're so well explained.
Absolutely magnificent work which is much appreciated by the people. It is amazing what is on one's doorstep if one takes the time to research it. Thank you for the time you go to in researching these places and showing us the results.
I've just watched this again. Thank you (both) for enthusing us with the delight of mysteries. A key to understanding helps to broaden our minds.
Brill.
Always enjoy your walks and talks, Paul! I live in Canada, the East Coast. Marvel at the millennia of history of Britain. We have our history too, the Colonial history isn’t that long, but the Indigenous people have been here a long time. Still, your adventures are so interesting! 🇨🇦🇬🇧
Always informative, educational, and entertaining content. I predict the bricks in the stream were a weir originally, and maybe the sluice was made of wood so either rotted away, or the timber was later used for some other purpose.
lol - nice hand overs/cuts/etc. Good music choices and interesting subject.
Very interesting and superbly presented.
Just been having a look at the AC Smith maps following the link in the pull done bit well worth browsing!!
Amazing what was done back then by an individual, I did wonder whether he was related to William Smith who did the first geological map, but I think not.
Good luck from Spain!!
excellent. ive got a suggestion for you. in the 70's i saw a doco about how major churches/cathedrals run in a straight line across from the west towards the east. it was hypothesised that the churches were built on top of springs and other important places where the local people were gathering as a way of getting them to go to church. i'e.'converting' the heathens. it may have been an episode of chronicle or timewatch or horizon. my internet searches have shown no trace of the show.
Well, that was an especially funky and quirky one. But again: beautiful storytelling by Paul, and lovely music that was underlayed.
And also: What a lovely looking Map that is, the detailed one. Very pleasing to the eye.
Love the way that humour is injected into the video. It makes history so interesting.
We try!
Miss, Miss you wrote IMORTANT!! But more seriously, great video, all new stuff to me, and what settings did you use for the exterior footage as the colour balance looks very nice and real.
Thanks Simon
@@pwhitewick no worries - is this the most retitled video you have done? ;-)
@@Simon_Nonymous and worst performing!
@@pwhitewick I thought your performances were fine ;-)
Avebury is extremely impressive, but there's some creative camera work @2:11 that makes the ditch look almost bottomless.
I have relatives living near Hilmartin,maybe i could ask them to see if they can find anything about the sluice. Depending on the river itself you would find a water mill only if the river kept a constant height and flow. Saying that the River Ray between Swindon (Moredon estate area) and Common Platt ,there was a water mill which had a sluice tunnel feeder . Last time i visited the sluice tunnel was evident and you can also see ( with a bit of scraping) find some brickwork. Ive seen only 1 painting of the.building,but nothing else.
Ease do Gary
@@pwhitewick How can i get copy of the maps you used that are based around Hilmartin?.
That was fascinating and very funny, especially Rebecca's spelling mistake on the flipchart. Perhaps you could make that a new feature "spot the deliberate mistake "? 🤔 😅
Test passed. ✅️🤪
Very interesting video, showing that what is not shown on a map can stimulate our curiosity - and sometimes lead to interesting discoveries.
You are both extremely entertaining and very informative in your ventures. Each Sunday is a special opportunity for Paul and Rebecca.
Very interesting - I wonder if there would be anything in the local historic record library about the sluice?
Good call. Might do some digging if I have a moment.
rebecca is a true gem. thanks, needed a smile
Great vid good information got the map very detailed and ordered the book Exploring Avebury: The Essential Guide a couple of years back which is excellent.
Wonderful entertainment. Thank you both. 😊
Love your videos!! Supulchral = Sep-PUL-krill. I am not surprised at all that stuff that used to be on that map is no longer there. I think the powers that be have a vested interest in making a lot of prehistory invisible if it threatens the version of history they want promoted.
Thank you Nicola
I came looking for this so that I didn't repeat it :)
It makes you wonder how many stone circles, dolmens, cromlechs, etc. there were in ancient times. How many have we lost? These things were often protected by superstition (and their sheer weight) until a century or two ago (bad luck will befall anyone who interferes), and this can still be the case in Ireland. I'd be interested to know if these monuments survive better where livestock are farmed (no point moving the stones) than in arable areas (getting in the way of the plough). Thought provoking video!
Your videos are getting better and better!
Love it! One of your best yet!
Thanks Robert. We agree.
It's as I thought. Hilmarton is somewhere you drive through without stopping. Interesting video. I did it years ago.You will have to go back after harvest with your drone to see if there are any ground anomalies where the quoit should have been. I thought Avebury itself was quite impressive, more so than stonehenge.
Thanks Don. Agreed on all counts. Avebury is difficult to take in because of its scale
One question I've had is why would a village be founded in the middle of a prehistoric religious site. Is there possibly some continuity between the inhabitants there & the people who built the site?
Another informative video. Marvellous work. Obviously, to quote Oliver, please SIR... Can I have some more?
Another excellent video. How can anything on maps be boring? May I suggest you do a video on the one 1km square on the OS 1:50000 maps that has nothing in it at all. There is one with no features - a contour line brushes one corner I believe. However , there is some competition for the dullest square - so even more excitement in finding them. Suggest the following for a start of the new 10 part series - SD4474, SE8322, NC8330 & NT1995 - others are available! There may even be some disused station nearby - Auchenforth Moss has a lot within a few miles, so even more reason to go there.
This is very tempting
0:17 exactly my reaction, Rebecca, exactly my reaction! MAPS AND LAND AND STUFF!!! The theme of this video is quite unique and just as stunningly interesting as everything else!
Well I liked it.
The old map v. reality today is always great to see.
Keep up the plodding and talking.
I live in Calne, Love this place.
Gorgeous part of the world
@@pwhitewick it is indeed. Been following your videos for a while now. Keep up the good work.
I didn't see that third question coming. Lovely video.
Thanks Maarten
Maybe the sluice was simply to maintain water levels perhaps to ensure good pasture close to Hillmarton. Such use of sluices was commonplace in the Fens.
Ah that coukd add up
Thank you Paul and Rebecca for another interesting vid
Slightly different in the stream, but if rock has been bought from underground and put at the side of the stream, the lichen that grows on it grows at a roughly steady rate, so that can be used to date when the rock was first exposed to the surface. Nice video :)
Love the Solitary Dog, and that because I know the area so well. Its a great place to just dissapear and follow the lesser walked footpaths. If my memory serves me right, its a pair of dogs at the entrance to a wonderful big farmhouse.
Strange but I don't see any local Archaeologist's or local historians comments or input just signs that the Council does want anyone asking Questions like yourself that's a real shame. I went to Stonehenge as a school trip in the mid 1960's and it was just like that, open access, I went again in the 1970's and could not get near it and it was like going to a supermarket car park I was so sad at seeing them turned into a circus that I didn't go any nearer as I didn't want to spoil my memory ot the site before it was commercialised. Great Video thanks for showing this before it gets ruined by commercialisation.
places like Stonehenge would've been destroyed long ago if it wasn't fenced off. People touching it and sitting on the stones would've worn it out long ago. Just look at the sad state of the great pyramids from over a century of being a tourist attraction with people walking all over them
Absolutely fascinating!
Chilling with PandB on a sunday night. Never fails to liven up the winter nights on the other side of the world!!!
Refreshingly funny edited video!
Good Ole Smiffy!
Aye
The map was there for you guys to find and keep you busy for the next thirty years it’s about leaving your mark in a subject your passionate about
Taking of missing maps one of the tenant who pass away in April she had a very old map of Kent and Tunbridge Wells is missing but Tonbridge is there with it's Castle and the Rail Way lines are also missing but they may not have bother to draw then in. In Tunbridge Wells the London Road is there and that's you lot. Just two very small Villages on the out skirts of the now town
Hi. This might be a very basic question but what is the 'old map' resource you showed on screen, please? Loved the vid and thanks!
If you want a boring map take a look at the OS 1:50000 kilometre square centred on 83483 2251 just to the south east of Ousefleet. It is reputedly the 'emptiest' square on the whole map.
When I was young I noticed a square on the London A to Z, out near the Essex border, that was completely blank. My childish mind went into overdrive, imagining it was like the moon, or maybe a black hole where nothing existed. I went there a few years ago, disappointed to find it was just a very very large field.
Well what a great fact ... Loading my maps up now but drinking coffee in case it is so boring I fall asleep 🤪 EDIT it is indeed yawnsome...
hello again Paul and Rebecca , great video as always , Rebecca is so funny , oh ok so are you Paul lol, i have a feeling ive seen those standing stones in a tv show or film , i could be wrong though , very interesting , well done and thank you guys :)
Avebury was the setting for a '70s childrens show "Children of the Stones" - see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children_of_the_Stones
@@tangletwigsfairymeadow6243 i knew someone would know , thank you very much :)
Shockingly, until quite recently (in the grand scheme of things) Stonehenge was prone to Stone removal and relocation.
They have to do it twice a year when the clocks change.
Amazing work team 👏
'SEPPUL-KUR'; 'SEPP-UL-KRAL', Paul. Hope that helps.
Fascinating video, as always. Thank you.
How did he get Wiltshire onto the back of the horse ?
Sluice - water meadow.. watercress beds ?
By boring into this map, you made the boring become not boring.
Way to go!
Are there any detectorists scanning them fields in the off-season?
Maybe, if you asked the famer, he may have agreed to allow some to do so on his land...and, in which case, you could attempt a team up and direct them to points of interest that they could concentrate on/around.
You never know, there may well be some interesting finds
They're also waterproof these days too, so, there's a chance that they could find something of interest in the silt of a crissing even 👍
So the most "boring" square of the map has a mystery old sluice to nowhere? That sounds interesting to me!
We spent hours there trying to figure it out. Not a clue.
@@pwhitewick Firstly, thanks for yet another informative and enjoyable video. I wonder if the sluice was leading down to the square feature north west , perhaps a fishery or similar. It would need regular water feeds.
Oh Boy ! A map episode !
We looove the maps
The biggest laugh was when Paul mentioned Wiltshire which the subtitles represented as "wheelchair". That's Googoil for ya!
Awesome vid love the pre history stuff, i know not your normal thing but you should do a vid on the old antiquarians the likes of John Aubrey and William Stukeley the work they did and the monuments they recorded is amazing and compared to what we see now there is not a lot left :( . There theory's are little outdated i agree lol but still very interesting.
So interesting. Thank you.
This level of interest in maps reminds me of Sheldon from The Big Bang Theory and his obsession with flags. 🙂
Great video. Keep them coming.