Thanks - now I understand why we get that awful smell when more than one hot water appliance - tank, dishwasher, washing machine - is running at the same time. Keep asking for something to be done about - keep having the problem. From now on I will crack open the side door of the house. HWT is in the open, in old house, not hermetically sealed - wouldn't think it would be a problem. Next hwt will have the power vent. Didn't even know they existed. Thanks.
Why do you need to wait for the water heater to kick on for the test? If there is a slight backdraft present from the flue setup, you would be able to detect it with it just a bit of smoke. Say like in the winter, there is always heavier cooler air present in the flue.
Electric water heater, water is getting hot and turning cold on and off. After changing all the elements. How do I check all the wiring, and find the problem????
Buy Carbon Monoxide Detectors people! If your standard gas water htr vent travels horizontally and its interior home you’ve got carbon monoxide risk. During construction all the gas lines and flue piping done by HVAC contractor who do not care or warranty water htrs . Flawed system to be sure .
A big problem I see and no one seems to talk about is when furnace and water heater are venting together. Most 80% furnace use fan assist on the vent and its blowing the vent fumes right back out the water heater. So many installers use a tee at the connection but the vents are level with each other making it far worse. Would love to see way more talk about this and ways to solve the issue since so many folks have this set up. Honestly I am to the point of going electric on my water heater just to end the issue once and for all. The last item I see is negative pressure in home from stacking, so many people have this issue on lower levels where their equipment room is and are not even aware of the hard negative in their home, once again fumes pulling back into house from b-vent.
No one talks about it because it’s not a problem. You are mistaken on the operation of an induced draft 80% furnace. The inducer is not there to push the flue gasses out of the furnace. It is there to overcome the restriction of the heat exchanger. In other words it is not a power vented furnace. There is no problem having a common chimney with a connector for a water heater and a connector for the 80% furnace. They are both negative pressure connectors. If it were a power vented furnace, it would need a sealed positive pressure flue. This is the case with the 90+ furnaces which use a sealed PVC flue.
@@rodgraff1782 Mid-efficiency (80% to 82%) furnaces have no draft hood. Instead, they use fan-assisted draft with a fan located at the outlet (draft inducer) of the heat exchanger. If you have your water heater flue tied in with a cross tee you will get a positive pressure back thru the water heater side pushing gases out, mine was doing this. The issue was the tee, you have to use an off-set tee to avoid the direct exposure of the water heater flue, the offset will allow the pressure to bypass and go up the roof instead of across the tee back thru the water heater.
@@sunnyd6019 As you stated, the spill problem is due to a improper installation of the combination connector pipe, with both appliances connector pipes directly facing each other. One appliance, the furnace, should enter the bottom of the combination connector, the water heater should enter the side, at an angle facing up. I have an 80% carrier furnace I my garage, that is a 1990 model Carrier. It is common vented with the water heater. The furnace has a small square draft diverter, with a spill switch. I have seen several brands that have this. If there is any kind of positive pressure in the flue, the gasses will roll out of this opening, and trip the manual reset spill safety switch. If you hold a match to the opening, the negative draft pulls the flame in. If it goes the other way, you have a problem with the venting system, or the combustion air. The inducer motor on the furnace is designed to draw the gasses thru the heat exchanger, and deliver them to the flue collar. Right below the collar is the small draft diverter, with the spill switch, so the pressure at the collar is negative. I have seen these rollout switches bypassed, because the flue was not drawing properly. That’s a big no no. The induced draft 80% furnaces, at least the Carriers, have been around for over 30 years now. Mine is 33 years old, and still going.
@@rodgraff1782 100% on the issue, mine was vented wrong at the tee. I went ahead and removed all to the B-Vent at the ceiling. Then re-installed a new off-set tee and vented back to the furnace and water heater. Once this was done no more issues at water heater and perfect negative draft now. I only noticed the issue because I was in the room working and my arm got real hot and I felt the gasses being pushed back out the water heater, it only lasted like 15 seconds but I did not want anything coming back into the house since bedroom is close to mechanical. Sadly a lot of homeowners probably have a bad vent setup that is so simple to fix, again I would never have paid attention if not being in the right place at right time to catch it. Cheers and thanks for the info and reply.
@@sunnyd6019 Glad you got it fixed. All flues have what they call “priming time”. Which means they won’t draw right until the flue developers buoyancy from the hot gasses. This can last for up to one minute, and spillage is allowed during that time. A water heater pilot will keep the flue slightly warm and offset the priming time. On the other end, long flues can have a stack affect, which causes air to be drawn up, even if they are not hot. This is usually due to multi story chimneys. This can cause problems with appliances that do not have draft diverters. Also make sure you don’t have a negative pressure in the mechanical room. Cloths driers, kitchen fans, fire places, and bath fans can put a negative pressure in the house, if an insufficient supply of combustion air is not available. I’ve had to seal the doors on the furnace room and run large fresh air ducts into the furnace room to offset problems.
Hi Thanks Mate very helpful and simple explanation like this video ,thanks for your time and sharing your knowledge, also like the Scripture from the HOLY BIBLE in the background . GOD BLESS you and your business✝️👍🏼🙏🏻
This video deserves way more views! And I appreciate the time and effort you put into this. It's probably the most important thing that should be checked on a water heater as a part of regular maintenance. But most other videos aren't emphasizing this like you are. I have a two family house with two different water heaters. An old school one like the one you had in your video and the other is the new school one with the power vent. The old school water heater has been going strong for many years. The new school with the power vent and electrical control panel has given me a bunch of problems. Someone who knows a lot about HVAC told me to check the vents and make sure they were clear. The old school one had a wall plug with bunch of dirt and bugs backed up in it. The new school one I can't figure out how to get to the vent to clear it. But after watching your video and understanding that the power vent uses a fan to push out the air, I'm starting to think that that one is not likely to get a lot of debris in it because of it having that fan. The problem it's having is that. it tries to start up and it clicks a bunch of times and then shuts down over and over again until eventually it catches and starts running to heat up the water. Any idea what might be wrong with it?
This is probably too late but typically the repeated attempts to kick on the burner is from the safety system logic when it detects unsafe conditions. Usually in gas appliances this is caused by lack of combustion flow either on the intake or more like the exhaust vent. I'm confused about not knowing where the vent is - it should be connected to the fan exhaust with rigid piping similar to old draft heaters and have a relatively straight and short run to a protrusion outside of the house. Draft venting would exit vertically through the roof or chimney while powered exhaust vents can exit the side of the house, similar to a dryer vent or high-efficiency furnace. In theory, the fan powered exhaust could remain cleaner with a one-way flap or slats like on a dryer or bathroom fan, to prevent bugs/dirt from the outside, though modern building/fire codes don't permit anything but an open pipe exit with no screens or slats, at least in the case of the intake and exhaust vents for high-efficiency gas furnaces but at least those connect to a sealed chamber in the furnace the prevents direct access for critters from outside the house. If your new heater detects poor exhaust flow, it usually won't run consistently or at all. If they have low-temp exhaust like high-efficiency gas furnaces, you have more options and ease for installing a new vent but it sounds to me like you don't actually have another vent at all for the second new unit?
I'm in Austin Tx. summer heat reaches 120/130 in the attic I've having combustion air issues with my water heater it goes smooth but in goes off again. There's no air flowing by the water heater.
You are not allowed to bring in combustion air with flex duct. You need upper and lower combustion air, constructed of ridged duct. One opening within 12” of the floor and one within 12” of the top. They must be separate to the point of the outdoor termination. The water heater flue connector is oversize. It should be 3”. If your going to do this often, you should by a proper draft measuring tool. Dwyer makes a pocket size model called the draft-rite. It will measure draft in hundredths of an inch. It’s really a problem having the dryer and all of the other fans drawing air out You need to consider that make up air, along with sizing combustion air for the fuel burning appliances
@@sewerrat7612 Usually the draft diverter collar will be the proper size for the connector required. Why would a manufacturer put a 3” collar on a water heater that needs a 4” connector?
@@rodgraff1782 most of the ones I see work for 3 or 4 inch there essentially stepped just put over and attach with zip screw. Less parts manufacturers have to deal with
I've been asking myself if the fumes in my house are coming from the gas boiler or gas hot water heater, both naturally vented. The hot water heater pipe T's into the much larger boiler pipe, which then goes to the roof. I don't have fumes when the boiler is running. I do when it's not. The water heater is old, and it's burner and air filter have never been cleaned. Could this be the cause of the poor venting, or is it more likely the flues are partially blocked? I'm old and have balance problems. Can't find anyone to go up on the roof.
Yea, my guy put in a cheaper model than what we had. Didnt know then what i know now. Think im having backdraft issues. Pilot light went out 5-6 times since 6/28 install. Can a power vent be added? Do i need to leave a window open and freeze the basement? (Brrrr) Thnx
Power vented water heaters seem to require a pvc discharge rather than a metal flue. Not sure why this is as the exhaust is exactly just as HOT unlike from a high efficiency furnace.
Thank you for actually SHOWING how to test for water heater draft instead of just talking about it.
Thanks - now I understand why we get that awful smell when more than one hot water appliance - tank, dishwasher, washing machine - is running at the same time. Keep asking for something to be done about - keep having the problem. From now on I will crack open the side door of the house. HWT is in the open, in old house, not hermetically sealed - wouldn't think it would be a problem. Next hwt will have the power vent. Didn't even know they existed. Thanks.
Why do you need to wait for the water heater to kick on for the test? If there is a slight backdraft present from the flue setup, you would be able to detect it with it just a bit of smoke. Say like in the winter, there is always heavier cooler air present in the flue.
Electric water heater, water is getting hot and turning cold on and off. After changing all the elements. How do I check all the wiring, and find the problem????
Excellent video! 👌
Fantastic demo and instructional video. Well done!
Use wet and dry vacuum cleaner to vacuum the chimney hole. I have seen so much small bricks chips and mortar blocks the vent hole.
Buy Carbon Monoxide Detectors people! If your standard gas water htr vent travels horizontally and its interior home you’ve got carbon monoxide risk. During construction all the gas lines and flue piping done by HVAC contractor who do not care or warranty water htrs . Flawed system to be sure .
Maybe a fresh air kit, help to improve DHW draft
Do you think this guy knows his companies symbol is the chaos star from Warhammer?
A big problem I see and no one seems to talk about is when furnace and water heater are venting together. Most 80% furnace use fan assist on the vent and its blowing the vent fumes right back out the water heater. So many installers use a tee at the connection but the vents are level with each other making it far worse.
Would love to see way more talk about this and ways to solve the issue since so many folks have this set up. Honestly I am to the point of going electric on my water heater just to end the issue once and for all. The last item I see is negative pressure in home from stacking, so many people have this issue on lower levels where their equipment room is and are not even aware of the hard negative in their home, once again fumes pulling back into house from b-vent.
No one talks about it because it’s not a problem. You are mistaken on the operation of an induced draft 80% furnace. The inducer is not there to push the flue gasses out of the furnace. It is there to overcome the restriction of the heat exchanger. In other words it is not a power vented furnace. There is no problem having a common chimney with a connector for a water heater and a connector for the 80% furnace. They are both negative pressure connectors. If it were a power vented furnace, it would need a sealed positive pressure flue. This is the case with the 90+ furnaces which use a sealed PVC flue.
@@rodgraff1782
Mid-efficiency (80% to 82%) furnaces have no draft hood. Instead, they use fan-assisted draft with a fan located at the outlet (draft inducer) of the heat exchanger.
If you have your water heater flue tied in with a cross tee you will get a positive pressure back thru the water heater side pushing gases out, mine was doing this. The issue was the tee, you have to use an off-set tee to avoid the direct exposure of the water heater flue, the offset will allow the pressure to bypass and go up the roof instead of across the tee back thru the water heater.
@@sunnyd6019 As you stated, the spill problem is due to a improper installation of the combination connector pipe, with both appliances connector pipes directly facing each other. One appliance, the furnace, should enter the bottom of the combination connector, the water heater should enter the side, at an angle facing up. I have an 80% carrier furnace I my garage, that is a 1990 model Carrier. It is common vented with the water heater. The furnace has a small square draft diverter, with a spill switch. I have seen several brands that have this. If there is any kind of positive pressure in the flue, the gasses will roll out of this opening, and trip the manual reset spill safety switch. If you hold a match to the opening, the negative draft pulls the flame in. If it goes the other way, you have a problem with the venting system, or the combustion air. The inducer motor on the furnace is designed to draw the gasses thru the heat exchanger, and deliver them to the flue collar. Right below the collar is the small draft diverter, with the spill switch, so the pressure at the collar is negative. I have seen these rollout switches bypassed, because the flue was not drawing properly. That’s a big no no. The induced draft 80% furnaces, at least the Carriers, have been around for over 30 years now. Mine is 33 years old, and still going.
@@rodgraff1782 100% on the issue, mine was vented wrong at the tee. I went ahead and removed all to the B-Vent at the ceiling. Then re-installed a new off-set tee and vented back to the furnace and water heater. Once this was done no more issues at water heater and perfect negative draft now. I only noticed the issue because I was in the room working and my arm got real hot and I felt the gasses being pushed back out the water heater, it only lasted like 15 seconds but I did not want anything coming back into the house since bedroom is close to mechanical. Sadly a lot of homeowners probably have a bad vent setup that is so simple to fix, again I would never have paid attention if not being in the right place at right time to catch it.
Cheers and thanks for the info and reply.
@@sunnyd6019 Glad you got it fixed. All flues have what they call “priming time”. Which means they won’t draw right until the flue developers buoyancy from the hot gasses. This can last for up to one minute, and spillage is allowed during that time. A water heater pilot will keep the flue slightly warm and offset the priming time. On the other end, long flues can have a stack affect, which causes air to be drawn up, even if they are not hot. This is usually due to multi story chimneys. This can cause problems with appliances that do not have draft diverters. Also make sure you don’t have a negative pressure in the mechanical room. Cloths driers, kitchen fans, fire places, and bath fans can put a negative pressure in the house, if an insufficient supply of combustion air is not available. I’ve had to seal the doors on the furnace room and run large fresh air ducts into the furnace room to offset problems.
Do you have a video that elaborates on wind contribution?
Hi Thanks Mate very helpful and simple explanation like this video ,thanks for your time and sharing your knowledge, also like the Scripture from the HOLY BIBLE in the background .
GOD BLESS you and your business✝️👍🏼🙏🏻
Well done.
Good video.
This video deserves way more views! And I appreciate the time and effort you put into this. It's probably the most important thing that should be checked on a water heater as a part of regular maintenance. But most other videos aren't emphasizing this like you are.
I have a two family house with two different water heaters. An old school one like the one you had in your video and the other is the new school one with the power vent. The old school water heater has been going strong for many years. The new school with the power vent and electrical control panel has given me a bunch of problems.
Someone who knows a lot about HVAC told me to check the vents and make sure they were clear. The old school one had a wall plug with bunch of dirt and bugs backed up in it. The new school one I can't figure out how to get to the vent to clear it. But after watching your video and understanding that the power vent uses a fan to push out the air, I'm starting to think that that one is not likely to get a lot of debris in it because of it having that fan.
The problem it's having is that. it tries to start up and it clicks a bunch of times and then shuts down over and over again until eventually it catches and starts running to heat up the water. Any idea what might be wrong with it?
This is probably too late but typically the repeated attempts to kick on the burner is from the safety system logic when it detects unsafe conditions. Usually in gas appliances this is caused by lack of combustion flow either on the intake or more like the exhaust vent. I'm confused about not knowing where the vent is - it should be connected to the fan exhaust with rigid piping similar to old draft heaters and have a relatively straight and short run to a protrusion outside of the house. Draft venting would exit vertically through the roof or chimney while powered exhaust vents can exit the side of the house, similar to a dryer vent or high-efficiency furnace.
In theory, the fan powered exhaust could remain cleaner with a one-way flap or slats like on a dryer or bathroom fan, to prevent bugs/dirt from the outside, though modern building/fire codes don't permit anything but an open pipe exit with no screens or slats, at least in the case of the intake and exhaust vents for high-efficiency gas furnaces but at least those connect to a sealed chamber in the furnace the prevents direct access for critters from outside the house. If your new heater detects poor exhaust flow, it usually won't run consistently or at all. If they have low-temp exhaust like high-efficiency gas furnaces, you have more options and ease for installing a new vent but it sounds to me like you don't actually have another vent at all for the second new unit?
So, does this mean that if gases aren't going out properly it is because there's not enough air indoors? There's not enough ventilation?
How about chimney vent is not have enough clearance?
I'm in Austin Tx. summer heat reaches 120/130 in the attic I've having combustion air issues with my water heater it goes smooth but in goes off again. There's no air flowing by the water heater.
Great video man
You are not allowed to bring in combustion air with flex duct. You need upper and lower combustion air, constructed of ridged duct. One opening within 12” of the floor and one within 12” of the top. They must be separate to the point of the outdoor termination. The water heater flue connector is oversize. It should be 3”. If your going to do this often, you should by a proper draft measuring tool. Dwyer makes a pocket size model called the draft-rite. It will measure draft in hundredths of an inch. It’s really a problem having the dryer and all of the other fans drawing air out You need to consider that make up air, along with sizing combustion air for the fuel burning appliances
Flue connection for water heater should be sized based on btu under 40 k 3 inch over 4inch
@@sewerrat7612 Usually the draft diverter collar will be the proper size for the connector required. Why would a manufacturer put a 3” collar on a water heater that needs a 4” connector?
@@rodgraff1782 most of the ones I see work for 3 or 4 inch there essentially stepped just put over and attach with zip screw. Less parts manufacturers have to deal with
I've been asking myself if the fumes in my house are coming from the gas boiler or gas hot water heater, both naturally vented. The hot water heater pipe T's into the much larger boiler pipe, which then goes to the roof. I don't have fumes when the boiler is running. I do when it's not. The water heater is old, and it's burner and air filter have never been cleaned. Could this be the cause of the poor venting, or is it more likely the flues are partially blocked? I'm old and have balance problems. Can't find anyone to go up on the roof.
Thank you for this information.
GREAT THANK YOU!
I thought there was issue with new roof
How about the melted plastic gromets?
Was about to ask same question
The air intake is probably a newer addition.
Thanks so much for making this video, you are the best
Very helpful ! Thanks !
4:00 Audio overlap... Otherwise, thanks for a great/informative video!
visual evidence for the win
Great vid
Yea, my guy put in a cheaper model than what we had. Didnt know then what i know now. Think im having backdraft issues. Pilot light went out 5-6 times since 6/28 install. Can a power vent be added? Do i need to leave a window open and freeze the basement? (Brrrr) Thnx
Power vented water heaters seem to require a pvc discharge rather than a metal flue. Not sure why this is as the exhaust is exactly just as HOT unlike from a high efficiency furnace.
You can share exhaust w furnace and tank...smh this guy
best video