I had a 20 meter ham stick laying around the house and decided to try something I might be able to use for POTA or Field Day. I mounted it in the corner of the yard and attached 3 tape measures to the ground plate. Since it was temporary the tape measures could be pulled out to 16.5 ft and laid on top of the ground. All the nay sayers made fun of me since a ham stick is a compromised antenna and I only had 3 radials. Well, it achieved an SWR range of 1.2 to 1.4 across the band and the first time I keyed it up I made a contact 1100 miles away with a 5/7/9 signal report. A compromise, yes, but a perfect fit for a small yard and I just roll up the tape measures when it’s time to mow the grass. Can’t wait to try it on Field Day.
I love everything you said in that video. It reminds me a lot of what my grandmother would say / what my father does say "any antenna that gets your signal out works"
As an owner of a small garden, recently licensed and looking to set up my first HF antenna this is a great video that answers so many questions. Thanks for posting.
This video inspired me today to make a quarter wave vertical for 17m. Only used 4No quarter wave ground radials and works great. Also acceptable SWR on 6m and 4m so this was a nice bonus.
Excellent Video- spot on, at times it seems many hams no longer read antenna books, or the Radio handbooks, much of what you covered on verticals has been in these books and others like ON4UN's for decades, to many obsessed with SWR matching and not taking in all the other factors dealing with antenna efficiency, or experimenting with what works for them. There is no perfect antenna, there are to many variables for all the locations and situations on our planet, not to mention propagation variables alone, the best antenna is the one that works for you , they are tools in your arsenal and the best one is the one that fits the need at that particular time, if you can have several antennas count your blessings but if only one then find out the best one for your situation, don't be afraid to experiment and enjoy the hobby, loved this video thanks for sharing it with the ham community 73 J
Very nice video. Very plausible explanations and suggestions. Very relevant for my present needs, as I am preparing to put up a Hustler 4BTV that my father gave me a number of years ago, that was never used, still in the box, and I don't have a lot of room in my yard. Thank you for doing this video.
I am enjoying your video's for this reason; most hams are generally much more technically advanced than I am. They tend to talk over my head most of the time. Some do it to show off, and some are just so smart that they can't imagine a level of understanding as low as mine. Nonetheless, I love the hobby and get a kick out of learning about the gear. So now you come along and make it easy enough for guys like me to understand. You have no idea how valuable and entertaining we find your video's. Thank you sir. KE8PUV in Michigan USA.
I use a Euro Pro X-80 vertical made in the UK. It is about 3 meters high and is mounted on a metal fence which is at ground. To be sure, I put a 10' ground rod (copper pipe) next to it. It is in the worst location, sandwiched between a house and a 5' berm with foliage. The coax run is 150 feet! I have made contacts between Florida, my QTH, and Finland to the northeast, Moscow to the east, California to the west and St. Helena Island in the south atlantic as well as South America and Southern Europe. This on 100 watts SSB (20 meters), all done in 1 year. Yes, you can use a small vertical with success.
In my experience, The DX Commander has been an EXCELLENT multiband vertical antenna. I've had 2, one as a parasitic on 40m at a 1/4 wave away and it really makes a difference. I'm waiting for the Nebula arrive which promises to be amazing having 80m vertical will be very interesting. Currently running an end-fed and what you say about skip and direction really shows, where i was on a vertical before, the end fed which does 80m natively, easily bounces out to south america, where as I've seem to have 'lost' being able to reach Australia/NZ as easily as I could before. Good video, thanks :)
All good advice Peter and hopefully the impetus to those who are a little indecisive and disheartened by the “official wisdom” to just get out there and try. They’ll probably be pleasantly surprised. Happy with home and portable verticals at this end 👍🏻
Great information, I have to say that I had a small garden, or as we say in the States, a postage stamp yard, I didn't have room for a large dipole or any way to do an inverted v either so I bought a 5 btv I mounted it on a 1.5 "o.d. copper water pipe which was a little bit more than 2 meters length, I put a copper end cap on the end and used a fence post maul to hammer it into the ground I mounted the vertical onto the tubing. Using good quality screws and eyelets I put radials in all directions around that mount many were quite short , I painted the copper and radial connections. my ham friends said it wouldn't work because they weren't tuned I even allowed the feed line to radiate 70' and put a choke on that coax right before it entered my radio room. All of that work paid off , only needed an a.t.u. for the extremely narrow 75/80 meter coil & radiator . A good ground is advantageous. Also vertical is fantastic especially for DX. But Without a good ground they tend to be noisy. Mow the grass as low as possible, and pin those radials down make staples from wire coat hangers to hold them in place whilst the sod grows over them and no one but you will know they are there.
With the popularity of FT8 these days, and the DX 17M offers using that mode, I looked at how narrow the 17M band is and concluded that narrow banded antennas would be no trouble at all for that use. It is really the same for any band if your concerned about CW or a specific data mode. It is only when we desire antennas to do everything that we have to abandon the traps and other techniques that allow us to make physically smaller antenna. Good presentation sir.
When I got my Novice ticket in 1970 I didn't know much about antennas and had a Novices knowledge of antenna theory. I ran a vertical with only a ground rod , with about 50 watts. I worked stations all over the country.
I have a large "garden" (called a "yard" here) but am looking for a practical vertical antenna for POTA activations (portable use where wire antennas thrown into trees may be prohibited). Thanks for the video - your comments are mostly relevant to the portable antenna world too.
In 2007, I came back to Ham Radio after some 10 years break. I bought a Yaesu FT857d, Watson PSU, MFJ Versatuner, a Watson 2m/70cm Colinear and a Hustler HB5 and of course some coax to connect the radio to the aerials. I lived in a caravan in Ipswich. The Hustler was mounted on a spike in the ground and the colinear on a 20ft scaffold pole tied to the tow bar of the caravan, but without any radials. I worked well into Russia, Spain, Italy, Scandinavia and one station on the east coast of the USA using SSB. I later moved into council bungalow so my aerials were restricted. The 2m/70cm was ok on the top of the tv aerial. The Hustler was badly damaged in the move and was scrapped. I bought a Pro-Whip vertical that covered 80m to 6m. This was a telescoping fiberglass whip with a wire up the middle and a 9:1 Un-Un and a 20ft 'counterpoise' wire. This was good as I was just getting into digital modes at this time and it could be collapsed down when not in use, but again, I worked Russia, all of Europe and the east coast USA. I later upgraded my radio to an Icom IC 7300 - very good radio. The Pro-Whip split when it was hit by a Heron (It died, I am afraid to say). I then bought a really cheap Sigma DX 80 HF off Ebay - very cheap £69.95! It was suggested that I put at least four ten foot radials out. The VSWR was very erratic and the built in tuner of the 7300 could not match the aerial. I removed the radials and just have a ground rod connected to the earth side of the aerial, which is about 2ft above the ground on a short pole. I started to use FT8 with 100w output and within a couple of weeks I had worked the six continents. I saw somewhere that FT8 at 100w would soon burn the radio out, so I tried QRP, in fact 2% on the 7300 scale and I still get as good reports as I was getting with 100w. No Radials, only a ground rod and the ally tube holding the aerial. Birds still fly into it, the Rooks love playing on the aerial and bending it about, it has been bent almost double by the wind and it is still there working away.
Yes I concur with this. I find that for example, even 1m long radials covering 180 degrees work well. Just get 50 or 60 of them in say 7 bunches of 8 radials (thin wire is fine) and it will do ok on ground mounted verticals. It might be 1-2 dB down on an antenna with loads of longer radials but who will notice? 73
I have a Hustler 6BTV (10-80M) and I've added on 12M, 17M, and 60M to it. 6M even works ok on it. With regards to radials, I completely agree. I have a relatively small yard and I ended up putting down 55 radials of various lengths, from 10 feet to 60 feet. I cut the radial wire to fit the space, and my antenna is biased to one side of the yard. The main thing I did was not worry so much about the radials being of a particular length or quantity. What I did focus on was the TOTAL length of wire on the ground. I managed to get just about 1000 feet of wire down, and that made all the difference. I used insulated 14 AWG stranded wire.
@@watersstanton Crikey Peter 60 years ago I was 6 years old , that's a lot of experience you have ,I'll bet you've seen all the fads come and go then come back again. 73 M0BSW.
I work HF from an apartment that's physically on the 2nd floor, with Hustler mobile antenna(s) mounted to the balcony railing at about 16 feet and work the world with a hundred watts. The only blessing is that my ground elevation is approx. 1,100 feet ASL.
The requirements for radials are dependant on the quality of the ground. Clay and loam have minimum requirements for radials, while for sandy and stony soils you may need to bury mesh to get good results. Some heavy clay soils may see negligible benefit from radials at all vs a solid point ground! Soil impedance is complicated however, and the only way to know for sure what will work at your QTH is to experiment.
I have watched your videos for ages and have learned a lot. But I always feel a bit of a fraud because I am only a shortwave/ham band listener. Now do these antennas and all the tips and tricks also equate to me as an RX only hobbyist.
I am a licensed operator but do far more SWL than transmitting, so you are not a fraud at all. The tips peter was talking about really oly benifit the transmitting side of things, you will get great results with a 9 to 1 transformer and a ground rod and the longest bit of end fed wire you can put out in your garden. the transformer or balun design can be found by google. It just matches the antenna to a 50 ohm input for most transceivers, of course if you have only a receiver all you need to do is run a single cable from the HIz terminal at the back and a ground wire from the ground terminal to a ground rod or a copper water pipe in the house (not gas pipe please! or the mains earth you will get noise). that way you dont need anything fancy at all.
Could I put a 10 meter MACO 5/8 wave ground plane vertical, with provided radials, near the ground level, instead of a tall mast for good DX? If so, would It improve radiation by connecting the base to a 5' chainlink fence that has -- 2 ea. 111' lengths & 2 ea. 95' lengths surrounding my property? Also, there is a solid clay mass
I have used a 4btv without radials with just a 4 foot copper ground rod driven into a 1x1 small corner of our yard with the antenna that has semi-sandy ground connected to the coax shield and like Peter says, it does work . The performance is very limited but I still made contacts in 20 states and four countries with it. so it will work ok
Nice video, Just got a 6BTV and waiting for the rain to stop to plant the 5" pole in to the ground. I’m thinking of putting it 6m in from the boundaries in a corner of the back garden, to provide a bit of isolation from a person leaning over the fence. Don’t want anybody touching it while it’s live! Was thinking of putting it on top of my 4m X 4m chicken run, which is made of steel poles and a lot of chicken wire? But not sure what it would do to the eggs or if the chickens would start to glow in the dark.
What is the point of ham radio? Is it your ideal to have two tin cans and a string to talk to your neighbor, or a wireless set that can communicate around the world effectively? While you can skimp on your antenna, put up what amounts to a dummy load, and make a few contacts when you cross your eyes just right. Or you can use a 100 watt transceiver to dig through a dog pile and work DX along with everyone else and make the contacts during a contest. I have been using a modified Hustler 4BTV since 1985 ever since I inherited it from my neighbor. He had used it for a number of years before me, and it has been rebuilt to repair the loose trap hardware and corrosion on the aluminum tubing. The biggest effect I have found was when I replaced the ground rod with ground radials. As you said, once you put the radials on the ground, they are no longer resonant, but it is no different than having a 1/4 wave antenna on the roof of your car, it does not matter, as long as the antenna resonates against the ground plane! The first set of ground radials were copper wire randomly laid out to fit my back garden, the length was 10 feet, 3 meters, to 40 feet, 12 meters, and the number was about 50 radials. Once I tuned the antenna for less than 2 to 1 on all the bands, I was in 7th heaven working many stations I had only dreamed about as a novice operator! At my new QTH, I have a dedicated area for the 4BTV. It is a 60 foot, 18 meter, square, with the antenna ground mounted in the center. That means my radials range from 30 to 35 feet, 9 to 10.7 meters, long. I have placed 120+ radials under it twice now, the last time, I used stainless wire. With that setup, I finally made WAS for the first time, and I really put an effort into doing so! I am one continent away from WAC, but I have been lazy, working on other projects. Ask any QRP enthusiast, and they are going to tell you how important the antenna is to having made contacts vs just hearing other people! The moment you start making compromise antennas, you will see a decline in contacts that everyone else you hear is making, and it isn't because they are using an amplifier! In fact, all of my WAS contacts were with 100 watts or less! As are my WAC contacts, so far!
Im a CBer, forgive me. Around 1982... My 1/2 wave silver rod antenna snapped at the coil. 12 year old me, skint, used around 40 feet of wire left over from the house getting rewired. I strung it down the garden around 1 foot above the washing line. After a little faffing I got the SWR down to around 1.5 and it just worked, furiously well. In many ways it worked better than the commercial 1/2 wave antenna that snapped. I did all of this without a youtube hand holding video or the internet. I just used my brain to solve the problem with a bit of trial and error. I now in 2020 use a mobile antenna in the loft with a home made groundplane kit and mount.
.....Well done to you......yes I'm the Same.... CB and eleven meters....... Some of us seem to know more than the Amateurs.......We only have 27 MHz so we spend more concentration on fine tuning our Antennas to that rather than faffing around all over the HF spectrum.........I see it as similar to the dedicated Salmon angler verses the Course fisherman trying to catch a multiple of different fish but never really mastering one..........any how.....it would have been nice if you had a reply as most or all of the other coments did........73s and 51s..29 IP O49.
Thanks for the discussion for small gardens. Two related questions: How does the proximity of a couple of large (1m diameter) trees effect propagation and does paint (for camouflage) on the vertical bit effect radiation? Thanks
I think verticals are fantastic for deacs. But I do believe I Ground wires I would say the least a minimum of 16 if not 32. Thanks for video I enjoyed it always joy your videos
As far as using a ground rod, Cebik, W4RNL (sk) once wrote that RF travels in the first 6 inches of earth. I wonder if a short ground rod would work ? WA8QFE
What about People, like me, that have No Garden but Live on the Top Floor of a 20m Building and can Mount a Vertical to the Balkony. I can´t do any Radials but the Reinforcement of the Building is Grounded. So i can Rise a 4m Steel Mast and attach the Antenna to it. Only Restriction is that i have to Stay in between 10m over the Roof wich is a Flat Roof. The Antenna could be up to 9m Lenght and the Base would be then 23m over the Ground. By now i go out on the Field every Time to Transmit but i will do it from Home... Will a Silver Rod work for me ? Im curious that it will work on 80m because the most are using Loading coils and the Useable Transmit Bandwith is so Narrow... Which Antenna would you suggest for my Situation ?
@@watersstanton It is a Real Struggle. Up to 20m its not that Problem with Verticals but beyond.. The next thing i will Try is a Inverted V Dipole with Traps. It is 19.6m Long and i can Spread it out to 3m each side supportet by Fishing Poles... maybe this will work... Or a Vertical with a Coil and use it only for the 80m SSB like 3650-3750 or so...
One could start of with a low number of radials and progressively add on. After each addition, at similar conditions, check the performance using RBN as an objective measure.
I like RBN but the swings in conditions are so big compared with the - perhaps -1 or 2dB change, I am. It's not an easy measure,emt. Maybe a ground wave comparison might work. Peter.
watersstanton any chance you work on the 160m band ?? We love hearing from across the pond. I know it’s late over there but we’re usually on by 6:30/7pm eastern std time, which puts you guys at midnight 😉 1.930 The Toad Harbor Net KC3ONO
In my experience, the biggest obstacle to any antenna, especially a vertical growing in the "garden," is the lady of the house! They generally are not amused. Due to HOA restrictions my vertical radials lay on the ground, 4 of them and the antennas works very well for low-angle DX. As an experiment, I measured my SWR and reactance with no radials and everything looked terrible, SWR was off the chart. But when I put out just 1 radial the tuning started to look good, in fact the SWR came into a proper range. As I put in more radials the change in SWR was less dramatic but still heading in a good direction. I've worked the World FT8 on 40m late at night using the vertical /k6sdw
Screwfix £3 for a 6 foot rod. Regarding radials, I have always gone with the notion that if your verticle cast a shadow on the ground, then wherever that shadow ends, that is the length that your radial needs to be. If using lots of radials then the length of the shadow all around the verticle.
@@watersstanton Sometimes people get hung up on the "Best Antenna" for my XYZ... 99.9% of antennas are radio agnostic... Put up something... and get on the air :) :) :)
13:10 ` aluminium is not a particularly good heat conductor anyway`............ HUH ??????? would have to disagree there cowboy.... respectfully of course.
AA5NM: Thanks for such a gentlemanly presentation. I’d wondered about the reality factor, the “it works” factor. I like your style and will follow you as you have said many things as you made your presentation that, although they may seem tangential to some, were informative to me, like little radials!
You keep getting better and better - and it’s all based on experience. Thank you for sharing your experience. As we say in Texas, it is not BS.
Thanks for sharing!
Absolutely brilliant. A real Ham Radio genius. He reminds me of me.
Thanks for that. 73 Peter.
what like `opposites` attracted u to the video....
Yeah but he knows what hes talking about.
I had a 20 meter ham stick laying around the house and decided to try something I might be able to use for POTA or Field Day. I mounted it in the corner of the yard and attached 3 tape measures to the ground plate. Since it was temporary the tape measures could be pulled out to 16.5 ft and laid on top of the ground. All the nay sayers made fun of me since a ham stick is a compromised antenna and I only had 3 radials. Well, it achieved an SWR range of 1.2 to 1.4 across the band and the first time I keyed it up I made a contact 1100 miles away with a 5/7/9 signal report. A compromise, yes, but a perfect fit for a small yard and I just roll up the tape measures when it’s time to mow the grass. Can’t wait to try it on Field Day.
Many thanks. Well done. 73 Peter
I love everything you said in that video. It reminds me a lot of what my grandmother would say / what my father does say "any antenna that gets your signal out works"
Love that! 73 Peter
As an owner of a small garden, recently licensed and looking to set up my first HF antenna this is a great video that answers so many questions. Thanks for posting.
Glad it was helpful! 73 Peter
This channel is so great and helpful. "The law of diminishing returns" made me burst out laughing. Well said sir.
This video inspired me today to make a quarter wave vertical for 17m. Only used 4No quarter wave ground radials and works great. Also acceptable SWR on 6m and 4m so this was a nice bonus.
well done Kevin. 17m is great band. 73 Peter
Excellent Video- spot on, at times it seems many hams no longer read antenna books, or the Radio handbooks, much of what you covered on verticals has been in these books and others like ON4UN's for decades, to many obsessed with SWR matching and not taking in all the other factors dealing with antenna efficiency, or experimenting with what works for them. There is no perfect antenna, there are to many variables for all the locations and situations on our planet, not to mention propagation variables alone, the best antenna is the one that works for you , they are tools in your arsenal and the best one is the one that fits the need at that particular time, if you can have several antennas count your blessings but if only one then find out the best one for your situation, don't be afraid to experiment and enjoy the hobby, loved this video thanks for sharing it with the ham community 73 J
Many thanks - much appreciated.
Very nice video. Very plausible explanations and suggestions. Very relevant for my present needs, as I am preparing to put up a Hustler 4BTV that my father gave me a number of years ago, that was never used, still in the box, and I don't have a lot of room in my yard. Thank you for doing this video.
You are very welcome
I am enjoying your video's for this reason; most hams are generally much more technically advanced than I am. They tend to talk over my head most of the time. Some do it to show off, and some are just so smart that they can't imagine a level of understanding as low as mine. Nonetheless, I love the hobby and get a kick out of learning about the gear. So now you come along and make it easy enough for guys like me to understand. You have no idea how valuable and entertaining we find your video's. Thank you sir. KE8PUV in Michigan USA.
Many thanks Jim. Sixty years ago I knew nothing about ham radio! 73 Peter.
Great stuff Peter. I still have your full calalogue from ...............1998! Its great reading still and is in my ‘most important books’ shelf!👍☘️
Wonderful! 73 Peter
Once again, good solid practical advice rooted in experience. Thanks! 73s
Glad you enjoyed it 73 Peter
I use a Euro Pro X-80 vertical made in the UK. It is about 3 meters high and is mounted on a metal fence which is at ground. To be sure, I put a 10' ground rod (copper pipe) next to it. It is in the worst location, sandwiched between a house and a 5' berm with foliage. The coax run is 150 feet! I have made contacts between Florida, my QTH, and Finland to the northeast, Moscow to the east, California to the west and St. Helena Island in the south atlantic as well as South America and Southern Europe. This on 100 watts SSB (20 meters), all done in 1 year. Yes, you can use a small vertical with success.
Paul, that is great. Thanks for telling us about it. 73 Peter.
In my experience, The DX Commander has been an EXCELLENT multiband vertical antenna. I've had 2, one as a parasitic on 40m at a 1/4 wave away and it really makes a difference. I'm waiting for the Nebula arrive which promises to be amazing having 80m vertical will be very interesting. Currently running an end-fed and what you say about skip and direction really shows, where i was on a vertical before, the end fed which does 80m natively, easily bounces out to south america, where as I've seem to have 'lost' being able to reach Australia/NZ as easily as I could before. Good video, thanks :)
Thanks. Nice to get your input. 73 Peter
All good advice Peter and hopefully the impetus to those who are a little indecisive and disheartened by the “official wisdom” to just get out there and try. They’ll probably be pleasantly surprised. Happy with home and portable verticals at this end 👍🏻
Great to hear from you. 73 Peter
Great information, I have to say that I had a small garden, or as we say in the States, a postage stamp yard, I didn't have room for a large dipole or any way to do an inverted v either so I bought a 5 btv I mounted it on a 1.5 "o.d. copper water pipe which was a little bit more than 2 meters length, I put a copper end cap on the end and used a fence post maul to hammer it into the ground I mounted the vertical onto the tubing. Using good quality screws and eyelets I put radials in all directions around that mount many were quite short , I painted the copper and radial connections. my ham friends said it wouldn't work because they weren't tuned I even allowed the feed line to radiate 70' and put a choke on that coax right before it entered my radio room. All of that work paid off , only needed an a.t.u. for the extremely narrow 75/80 meter coil & radiator . A good ground is advantageous. Also vertical is fantastic especially for DX. But Without a good ground they tend to be noisy. Mow the grass as low as possible, and pin those radials down make staples from wire coat hangers to hold them in place whilst the sod grows over them and no one but you will know they are there.
With the popularity of FT8 these days, and the DX 17M offers using that mode, I looked at how narrow the 17M band is and concluded that narrow banded antennas would be no trouble at all for that use. It is really the same for any band if your concerned about CW or a specific data mode. It is only when we desire antennas to do everything that we have to abandon the traps and other techniques that allow us to make physically smaller antenna. Good presentation sir.
Many thanks for sharing. 73 Peter
When I got my Novice ticket in 1970 I didn't know much about antennas and had a Novices knowledge of antenna theory. I ran a vertical with only a ground rod , with about 50 watts. I worked stations all over the country.
Thanks Brian. Peter
Thank you as always your blogs give food for thought excellent regards john
I have a large "garden" (called a "yard" here) but am looking for a practical vertical antenna for POTA activations (portable use where wire antennas thrown into trees may be prohibited). Thanks for the video - your comments are mostly relevant to the portable antenna world too.
Sounds great! 73 Peter
Thanks Peter, gave me some ideas to be able to start going on HF in my small garden.
Thank you for the sage advice. Your channel gives me much to chew on. KC3BXZ Joe 73
Glad to help 73 Peter
In 2007, I came back to Ham Radio after some 10 years break. I bought a Yaesu FT857d, Watson PSU, MFJ Versatuner, a Watson 2m/70cm Colinear and a Hustler HB5 and of course some coax to connect the radio to the aerials. I lived in a caravan in Ipswich. The Hustler was mounted on a spike in the ground and the colinear on a 20ft scaffold pole tied to the tow bar of the caravan, but without any radials. I worked well into Russia, Spain, Italy, Scandinavia and one station on the east coast of the USA using SSB. I later moved into council bungalow so my aerials were restricted. The 2m/70cm was ok on the top of the tv aerial. The Hustler was badly damaged in the move and was scrapped. I bought a Pro-Whip vertical that covered 80m to 6m. This was a telescoping fiberglass whip with a wire up the middle and a 9:1 Un-Un and a 20ft 'counterpoise' wire. This was good as I was just getting into digital modes at this time and it could be collapsed down when not in use, but again, I worked Russia, all of Europe and the east coast USA. I later upgraded my radio to an Icom IC 7300 - very good radio. The Pro-Whip split when it was hit by a Heron (It died, I am afraid to say). I then bought a really cheap Sigma DX 80 HF off Ebay - very cheap £69.95! It was suggested that I put at least four ten foot radials out. The VSWR was very erratic and the built in tuner of the 7300 could not match the aerial. I removed the radials and just have a ground rod connected to the earth side of the aerial, which is about 2ft above the ground on a short pole. I started to use FT8 with 100w output and within a couple of weeks I had worked the six continents. I saw somewhere that FT8 at 100w would soon burn the radio out, so I tried QRP, in fact 2% on the 7300 scale and I still get as good reports as I was getting with 100w. No Radials, only a ground rod and the ally tube holding the aerial. Birds still fly into it, the Rooks love playing on the aerial and bending it about, it has been bent almost double by the wind and it is still there working away.
Hi Barry. Great to hear your story. Take care. 73 Peter.
Great chap to watch and listen to.
An excellent talk, you have confirmed what I have always thought about verticals and associated radials. 73, VE7BKU
Many thanks. 73 Peter
Very much like your comments which say "Don't let the theory stop you trying in practice".
Yes indeed. Many thanks. 73 Peter
Yes I concur with this. I find that for example, even 1m long radials covering 180 degrees work well. Just get 50 or 60 of them in say 7 bunches of 8 radials (thin wire is fine) and it will do ok on ground mounted verticals. It might be 1-2 dB down on an antenna with loads of longer radials but who will notice? 73
Thanks Tim. 73 Peter
I have a Hustler 6BTV (10-80M) and I've added on 12M, 17M, and 60M to it. 6M even works ok on it. With regards to radials, I completely agree. I have a relatively small yard and I ended up putting down 55 radials of various lengths, from 10 feet to 60 feet. I cut the radial wire to fit the space, and my antenna is biased to one side of the yard. The main thing I did was not worry so much about the radials being of a particular length or quantity. What I did focus on was the TOTAL length of wire on the ground. I managed to get just about 1000 feet of wire down, and that made all the difference. I used insulated 14 AWG stranded wire.
Interesting to hear from you. Yes, basically forget the length and major on the quantity! 73 Peter.
Very nice, been motivated for a vertical again, thank you, Pc4R.
Any time!
thank you peter i have a hustler 5btv one of the finest hf antenna on the market ive had mine 10 yrs still gets out well 73 m3hnl
Thanks James. Yes a great antenna design. 73 Peter.
Yeah, I completely agree, also by experience.
Try them out and you'll be happy 😊
Many greetings
Matthias 👋
DL1NDG
How I wish I had this advice when I started, it would have saved me hours of faffing about, Great advice Peter.
Yes but I have held my licencee for 60 years! You are always learning. 73 Peter
@@watersstanton Crikey Peter 60 years ago I was 6 years old , that's a lot of experience you have ,I'll bet you've seen all the fads come and go then come back again. 73 M0BSW.
I work HF from an apartment that's physically on the 2nd floor, with Hustler mobile antenna(s) mounted to the balcony railing at about 16 feet and work the world with a hundred watts. The only blessing is that my ground elevation is approx. 1,100 feet ASL.
Lol! Nice.
The requirements for radials are dependant on the quality of the ground. Clay and loam have minimum requirements for radials, while for sandy and stony soils you may need to bury mesh to get good results. Some heavy clay soils may see negligible benefit from radials at all vs a solid point ground! Soil impedance is complicated however, and the only way to know for sure what will work at your QTH is to experiment.
New subscriber to your channel. Most educational, educational, thanks!
Stay healthy, cheers!
🍸
Many thanks. 73 Peter
I have watched your videos for ages and have learned a lot. But I always feel a bit of a fraud because I am only a shortwave/ham band listener. Now do these antennas and all the tips and tricks also equate to me as an RX only hobbyist.
Many thanks Jo. 73 Peter
I am a licensed operator but do far more SWL than transmitting, so you are not a fraud at all. The tips peter was talking about really oly benifit the transmitting side of things, you will get great results with a 9 to 1 transformer and a ground rod and the longest bit of end fed wire you can put out in your garden. the transformer or balun design can be found by google. It just matches the antenna to a 50 ohm input for most transceivers, of course if you have only a receiver all you need to do is run a single cable from the HIz terminal at the back and a ground wire from the ground terminal to a ground rod or a copper water pipe in the house (not gas pipe please! or the mains earth you will get noise). that way you dont need anything fancy at all.
very interesting , weather permitting ill be experimenting this weekend coming.
OK. Enjoy it. 73 Peter
Could I put a 10 meter MACO 5/8 wave ground plane vertical, with provided radials, near the ground level, instead of a tall mast for good DX? If so, would It improve radiation by connecting the base to a 5' chainlink fence that has -- 2 ea. 111' lengths & 2 ea. 95' lengths surrounding my property? Also, there is a solid clay mass
thank you, Peter. always interesting items.
Glad you like them!. 73 Peter
I have used a 4btv without radials with just a 4 foot copper ground rod driven into a 1x1 small corner of our yard with the antenna that has semi-sandy ground connected to the coax shield and like Peter says, it does work . The performance is very limited but I still made contacts in 20 states and four countries with it. so it will work ok
Nice video, Just got a 6BTV and waiting for the rain to stop to plant the 5" pole in to the ground. I’m thinking of putting it 6m in from the boundaries in a corner of the back garden, to provide a bit of isolation from a person leaning over the fence. Don’t want anybody touching it while it’s live! Was thinking of putting it on top of my 4m X 4m chicken run, which is made of steel poles and a lot of chicken wire? But not sure what it would do to the eggs or if the chickens would start to glow in the dark.
Competition for KFC !
Thanks Peter for another inspiring video, 73 G0TFD
Many thanks. Peter.
What is the point of ham radio?
Is it your ideal to have two tin cans and a string to talk to your neighbor, or a wireless set that can communicate around the world effectively?
While you can skimp on your antenna, put up what amounts to a dummy load, and make a few contacts when you cross your eyes just right. Or you can use a 100 watt transceiver to dig through a dog pile and work DX along with everyone else and make the contacts during a contest.
I have been using a modified Hustler 4BTV since 1985 ever since I inherited it from my neighbor. He had used it for a number of years before me, and it has been rebuilt to repair the loose trap hardware and corrosion on the aluminum tubing.
The biggest effect I have found was when I replaced the ground rod with ground radials.
As you said, once you put the radials on the ground, they are no longer resonant, but it is no different than having a 1/4 wave antenna on the roof of your car, it does not matter, as long as the antenna resonates against the ground plane!
The first set of ground radials were copper wire randomly laid out to fit my back garden, the length was 10 feet, 3 meters, to 40 feet, 12 meters, and the number was about 50 radials.
Once I tuned the antenna for less than 2 to 1 on all the bands, I was in 7th heaven working many stations I had only dreamed about as a novice operator!
At my new QTH, I have a dedicated area for the 4BTV. It is a 60 foot, 18 meter, square, with the antenna ground mounted in the center. That means my radials range from 30 to 35 feet, 9 to 10.7 meters, long. I have placed 120+ radials under it twice now, the last time, I used stainless wire. With that setup, I finally made WAS for the first time, and I really put an effort into doing so! I am one continent away from WAC, but I have been lazy, working on other projects.
Ask any QRP enthusiast, and they are going to tell you how important the antenna is to having made contacts vs just hearing other people! The moment you start making compromise antennas, you will see a decline in contacts that everyone else you hear is making, and it isn't because they are using an amplifier! In fact, all of my WAS contacts were with 100 watts or less! As are my WAC contacts, so far!
Im a CBer, forgive me.
Around 1982... My 1/2 wave silver rod antenna snapped at the coil.
12 year old me, skint, used around 40 feet of wire left over from the house getting rewired.
I strung it down the garden around 1 foot above the washing line.
After a little faffing I got the SWR down to around 1.5 and it just worked, furiously well. In many ways it worked better than the commercial 1/2 wave antenna that snapped.
I did all of this without a youtube hand holding video or the internet. I just used my brain to solve the problem with a bit of trial and error.
I now in 2020 use a mobile antenna in the loft with a home made groundplane kit and mount.
.....Well done to you......yes I'm the Same.... CB and eleven meters....... Some of us seem to know more than the Amateurs.......We only have 27 MHz so we spend more concentration on fine tuning our Antennas to that rather than faffing around all over the HF spectrum.........I see it as similar to the dedicated Salmon angler verses the Course fisherman trying to catch a multiple of different fish but never really mastering one..........any how.....it would have been nice if you had a reply as most or all of the other coments did........73s and 51s..29 IP O49.
Thanks guys.,73 Peter
very very very good indeed i am going to put into practice what i have learned you are a fine teacher.M7-AMH.
Many thanks. 73 Peter
Encouraging stuff Peter, nice one 👍👏👏
Thanks Mark. 73 Peter
For the L antenna…. Can you trap load the counterpoise (leg horizontal to ground) to make a 20m / 40m antenna?
Yes you can
@@watersstanton Thanks!
Great video. What about a 1:1 Balun? Is it necessary with the vertical configuration? Thanks again
73
No jus a line isolator. 73 Peter
Thanks for the discussion for small gardens. Two related questions: How does the proximity of a couple of large (1m diameter) trees effect propagation and does paint (for camouflage) on the vertical bit effect radiation? Thanks
Has ver little effect. After all trees are often used to support antennas. Paint is no problem. Peter
@@watersstanton Thanks
The music at the start always reminds of the come down after a lot of drug use.
I think verticals are fantastic for deacs. But I do believe I Ground wires I would say the least a minimum of 16 if not 32. Thanks for video I enjoyed it always joy your videos
Hi Paul. In fact there is no minimum to make it work and radiate. But certainly the more the better. 73 Peter
Does the vertical have to be on the ground? Or is the height important?
Really enjoyable, I'll put those thoughts into action, cheers.
OK Graham. Nice to hear from you. 73 Peter.
hi i have 42ft wide and can go 30ft hight on hf whot bands can get can you pleas holpe
Very helpful thank you
Nice video's at what height would you put a 10m vertical antenna it has 3 ground planes on.
There is no ideal height other than the more sky it sees the better it radiates. 73 Peter.
perfects is ~0.6 lambda
complimenti per il video,spiegazioni molto esaurienti,molto bravo,73 da IU7FVH, RENATO
Very many thanks.
I’ve never heard a 20, 40, or 80 meter vertical that sounded worth a flip compared to a traditional horizontally polarized antenna.
As far as using a ground rod, Cebik, W4RNL (sk) once wrote that RF travels in the first 6 inches of earth. I wonder if a short ground rod would work ?
WA8QFE
Thanks for the comment. 73 Peter
But you can use 1/8 wave radiators and more of them. Or a ground screen 1/4 wave in diameter. Add a ground rod for lightning.
Not a bad idea. Thank you for sharing.
Thanks for watching! 73 Peter
What about People, like me, that have No Garden but Live on the Top Floor of a 20m Building and can Mount a Vertical to the Balkony. I can´t do any Radials but the Reinforcement of the Building is Grounded. So i can Rise a 4m Steel Mast and attach the Antenna to it. Only Restriction is that i have to Stay in between 10m over the Roof wich is a Flat Roof. The Antenna could be up to 9m Lenght and the Base would be then 23m over the Ground.
By now i go out on the Field every Time to Transmit but i will do it from Home...
Will a Silver Rod work for me ? Im curious that it will work on 80m because the most are using Loading coils and the Useable Transmit Bandwith is so Narrow...
Which Antenna would you suggest for my Situation ?
I know it is a real problem. It is also a challengs. I have used magnetic loops for indoor use. Keep at it. 73 Peter
@@watersstanton It is a Real Struggle. Up to 20m its not that Problem with Verticals but beyond.. The next thing i will Try is a Inverted V Dipole with Traps. It is 19.6m Long and i can Spread it out to 3m each side supportet by Fishing Poles... maybe this will work...
Or a Vertical with a Coil and use it only for the 80m SSB like 3650-3750 or so...
One could start of with a low number of radials and progressively add on. After each addition, at similar conditions, check the performance using RBN as an objective measure.
I like RBN but the swings in conditions are so big compared with the - perhaps -1 or 2dB change, I am. It's not an easy measure,emt. Maybe a ground wave comparison might work. Peter.
Tip top Pete many thanks !
Many thanks. 73 Peter
I used ground rod and 90ft of 6ft high chain link fence for my 4o mtr vertical radial. Works but skewed pattern.
Hi Frank. Very interesting. 73 Peter
Excellent stuff. Thank you. Reminds me of me 😂
Glad you enjoyed it 73 Peter
my house has steel steps running down to my garden, bliss. Also big attic. Am i a lucky boy.
Sounds ideal. 73 Peter
Cracking Peter..
Many thanks. 73 Peter
thank you.
got a subscriber here.
Thanks for the sub! 73 Peter
What do you think of the Zero Five GP 1040 or GP1080?
Sorry, ut I am not familiar with these antennas. 73 Peter
Thanks for sharing informations
Dinos 73
Thank you too. 73 Peter
16 radials minimum but 64 or grater, yes rules of diminishing returns comes in to play. KC3ONO
Hi Kevin. Nice to hear from you. 73 Peter
watersstanton any chance you work on the 160m band ?? We love hearing from across the pond. I know it’s late over there but we’re usually on by 6:30/7pm eastern std time, which puts you guys at midnight 😉 1.930 The Toad Harbor Net
KC3ONO
In my experience, the biggest obstacle to any antenna, especially a vertical growing in the "garden," is the lady of the house! They generally are not amused.
Due to HOA restrictions my vertical radials lay on the ground, 4 of them and the antennas works very well for low-angle DX. As an experiment, I measured my SWR and reactance with no radials and everything looked terrible, SWR was off the chart. But when I put out just 1 radial the tuning started to look good, in fact the SWR came into a proper range. As I put in more radials the change in SWR was less dramatic but still heading in a good direction. I've worked the World FT8 on 40m late at night using the vertical /k6sdw
I have the BTV6 and it dose need guy ropes why do you say it dos'nt its 27 foot tall.
Because I referred to the 4BTv whicj is 20ft and does nit need guys. Peter
Very many thanks for your video. G0RBV.
So nice of you. 73 Peter
Run my BTV6 WITH 12 5m radial and I can work everywhere ;)
Great! 73 Peter
Great explanation, TNX & 73 N8AUM
Glad it was helpful! 73 Peter
Screwfix £3 for a 6 foot rod.
Regarding radials, I have always gone with the notion that if your verticle cast a shadow on the ground, then wherever that shadow ends, that is the length that your radial needs to be.
If using lots of radials then the length of the shadow all around the verticle.
Any Antenna is better than no antenna....
True. 73 Peter
@@watersstanton Sometimes people get hung up on the "Best Antenna" for my XYZ...
99.9% of antennas are radio agnostic... Put up something... and get on the air :) :) :)
13:10 ` aluminium is not a particularly good heat conductor anyway`............ HUH ??????? would have to disagree there cowboy.... respectfully of course.
It should have read - does nit store heat. 73 Peter
AA5NM: Thanks for such a gentlemanly presentation. I’d wondered about the reality factor, the “it works” factor. I like your style and will follow you as you have said many things as you made your presentation that, although they may seem tangential to some, were informative to me, like little radials!
Glad it was helpful! 73 Peter
Nice video. Very informative. Thanks.