C64 Repairathon! Part 3 - Black screen fix for #3 and checking out #4
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- Опубліковано 9 вер 2024
- Watch Part 1 and 2 first
Part 1: • C64 Repairathon! Part ...
Part 2: • C64 Repairathon! Part ...
Time for a Commodore 64 repairathon part 3! Another machine gets fixed and another tested.
Video on my technique to safely desolder chips:
• How to remove chips wi...
Donkey Kong Arcade for C64:
csdb.dk/releas...
------ Parts featured in this video:
EasyFlash 3 Multi-Cart:
store.go4retro....
Head Worn Magnifying Goggles / Dual Lens Flip-In Head Magnifier:
www.amazon.com...
TL866II Plus Chip Tester and EPROM programmer:
www.aliexpress...
MOS 8701 Replacement Oscillator Chips:
www.aliexpress...
EEVBlog 121GW Multimeter:
www.eevblog.co...
Jonard Tools EX-2 Chip Extractor:
www.jonard.com...
Logic Probe:
www.ebay.com/i...
C64 Homebrew cartridge PCB:
www.ebay.com/i...
Magnetic Screw Holder: (also on eBay and Amazon)
www.harborfrei...
Universal ZIP sockets: (clones)
www.ebay.com/i...
RetroTink 2X Upconverter:
www.retrotink.com/
We need a multi-sid sound card, plug in all the borked Sid's and pump out some crunchy, glitchy 8bit mash.
I didn't know I needed this until now.
Maybe the next repair video should be about that camera.
I love this repair series, Keep making more please!!
"had to cut the video short due to lenght"
like anyone would complain about an hour of C64 Repairs
he said eww bugs before the cut lol
That is a terrific rendition of the Donkey Kong Country theme.
It is. But, why tf is it used as the opening theme for classic Donkey Kong? o.o
It sounds great but way too fast for my PAL 50hz ears
That SID chip might be a bond starting to fail which reconnects when it heats up.
My theory on Commodore installing factory sockets on C64s is that as they ran production, the quality of their MOS chips had a lot to do with how many sockets got installed. As the batches got better and as less boards were stuck in the factory, the number of sockets would start dropping to save costs. As a bad batch of problematic chips came in or a new board revision entered production they would gradually add sockets to speed up the recovery of newly assembled but defective boards. I can’t think of any other reason why the amount of sockets varied so wildly over the years like it did... Also, upside down factory sockets aren’t terribly uncommon either, I’ve seen quite a few boards with them. :)
Adrian Black Your #3 machine is a 1984 250425, and in my experience most of them had sockets for at least the major chips. Commodore was the king of penny pinching and if they could save a few cents on a socket they would. And when they made millions of these things, those pennies added up I’m sure. You are right though, every C64 has at least the VIC-II socketed, but beyond that its totally random basically.
I kinda liked how DK sounded on bad SID chip. A bit of overdrive made it delightfully crunchy.
Oh man those are some funky sounding SIDs
Kinda awesome right :)
@@thomassmith4999
Totally, would be perfect for breakcore/glitch music
Damn, this series is making me want to start fixing retro stuff before my norm of waiting for winter.
Best remix of c64 dk I've heard so far. That SID is a treasure!
This series is some gripping, edge-of-your seat C64 repair entertainment! Thanks for letting us follow along Adrian! :)
Adrian Black Looking forward to it. Hope I can get ahold of some dead machines again myself and make a few more videos of my own. :)
You sir, are rapidly becoming one my favourite channels on youtube. I'm really enjoy seeing you troubleshoot and repairing these old wonderful computers and learning more. Keep it up! :)
This series is so wonderful, thank you so much for playing the Donkey Kong theme through a c64- I hadn't heard that before and it brought a tear to this old man's eye. Bloody amazing. Please keep doing what you're doing!
I’m watching hoping you solve the issue with #1, mine has the same symptoms. Great stuff.
You know you need a new camera when it crashes every 5 f**king minutes
Camera designed to prevent UA-cam copyright strikes...
@@adriansdigitalbasement I know, apply a little CPU paste, add an AIO water cooled pump with two fans blowing through a radiator in the back. Ignore that nasty fan noise...
Seriously, not sure about the model of your cam, but cams with batteries seem to heat up worst because the battery is installed and it is charging. If the cam can run on power without the battery that might cool it down. Or it may just be time to splurge for that new cam you were hoping you didn't have to do.
Great shows about our beloved C-64s!
@@adriansdigitalbasement Getting worse...? You mean it was a "feature" of the camera???
Heh wow... so much for Sony being one of the better brands eh
I've had a couple of sony cameras. There's a pretty easy way to fix them:
1. Open the battery cover
2. Remove the battery
3. Place in a bucket of rice
4. Pour gasoline on the rice
5. Light on fire and run in the opposite direction, never to return
Wow, that tune in the 2016 Donkey Kong version is sick! It blew my mind even with the, well, sick SID. Those chips were really capable for the time, we know that, but whoever has programmed this certainly knows how to squeeze the juice in them.
I started whistling the tune before I even realized I knew it. It's from Donkey Kong Country for SNES. :-)
Actually cutting the RF shields off will wear out those cutters since those cutters were designed to cut soft metal like aluminum or copper.
21:50 Chip did self destruct, and exploded
Oh man, those broken SIDs are sure producing some sweet sound effects
Camera dies because of insufficient FCC shielding on the C64s. :-)
That would be poetic justice.
I liked to see that you have some great taste for music, Flesh for Fantasy by Billy Idol (the song's name can be seen on your tablet at 0:22). Awesome song! Also, I can recognize that album cover a mile away!
ua-cam.com/video/DmJWOfMKm34/v-deo.html
Your videos are addictive Adrian, lot of knowledge in there!!!
the Great part about these videos, is it tells other people repairing repairing there c64's what to replace without having expensive equipment or multiple units :)
The dead bugs you found in #3 caused the camera to crash.
Just love the Vids!! Skipped everything else as soon as I seen this one pop up. As for the Brown Screen PLA, I've had a few of them do that although on my 1702 they look more orange with a reddish tint so I knew you likely had a bad PLA as soon as I seen that tell-tale colour come up.
BTW, I had to order the Jonard Tools EX-2 Chip Extractor and am getting a Magnetic Screw Holder as I've bounced screws onto the floor one too many times! Keep up the fine work! -Mark.
Watching the t EX-2 chip puller in your Video and all I could think was "I hope it isn't insanely priced!"
I do have a few TOLBs and PLAnktons from Eslapion being in Canada myself and with quick access to them but I have a lot of C64s to resuscitate so I'd love to have some spare 8701s naturally!
Thanks again Adrian and looking forward to more Videos///-Mark.
If I'd known there were four parts, I would have started this some other time, but now I"m in for the long haul.
Great stuff Adrian. Good to see these old computers brought back from the dead. Thanks for this video series!
As for why they didn't just socket the chips from the factory... because it added cost, and also decreased reliability from chips working their way loose during shipping, as well as coming loose when heat took a toll during normal operation. The Apple III was famous for socketed chips working their way loose, with the official Apple support fix involving dropping the machine onto the tabletop from a height of two inches, in order to reseat any chips that worked their way loose from sockets. I have also heard you ask why previous techs working on these boards didnt just socket the chips when they repaired them -- I can remember trying to fix some of these in the early 90s, and we just didn't have great (cheap, easy, available) access to parts like sockets, like we do now using detailed websites and with cheap fast access to Chinese manufacturers. You would go to Radio Shack and pay $10 for a single DIP socket in a retail package, if they even carried it. It really is so much easier nowadays to source parts and implement fixes and improvements when we service these older machines.
Love this series!!! I wish I could get my hands on some of this stuff.
A great repair series, Adrian. I'm always learning. I am really looking forward to you revisiting C64 #1, as I am currently experiencing the same repair scenario -- all major ICs working in my C64 ZIF test machine but I still get a black screen.
I had an old Sony Video8 camera, where the mechanism died. Later I got a Sony miniDV camera, where the mechanism died again, so I guess it's a common theme among Sony cameras to crap out after a few years, but now they have to do it differently, because of solid state storage.
About the bad sound on the machine. What my ear hears is that its more disturbed on the lower freqs which instantly makes me wonder about a bad cap nearby. The second cause could be power because lower notes take more power to produce the same freq. It doesn't mean it'll be the PSU but possibly something power related. Lastly I just awoke having a real insomniatic night so everything I ramble on might be worthless.
When problems are self-fixing I often think of the connections. Then consider reflowing parts of the board.
2.99, what do these commodores go for now? My friend back in junior high had a commodore pet that had the stick to hold up the monitor and sheet metal. He'd stash his cigs in there. If his mom smelled smoke he'd always blame it on the possibly malfunctioning pet.
Another fun day in Uncle Adrian's Puzzle Basement
Really enjoying this series. Found by accident. Subscribed :D Only other comment.... looking at your watch! Cant you sleep!!!!!!
Great series! What I especially like is all the links and good reference work. Keep up the good work Adrian!
I have put two systems side by side, one working one not. It can sometimes help going back and forth on each chip/pin with logic probe or scope. It can work when it's a problem like yours, but it's especially if you can get them into the same state. Things that will let it boot, but still have troubles.
When you have a dead 8701 clock generator you usually get a black black screen on a C64. What I mean is you won’t have any clocks at all and you won’t even get an actual black video screen when you flip the power switch. The machine will appear totally dead on powerup... Apologies for all my comments, just trying to share some useful repair info for everyone. :)
Commodore didn't socket all chips because sockets cost money, and Jack Tamiel was on a quest for cheap computers. That's why the VIC-20 and C64 were popular, they were very capable machines for an incredibly reasonable price. Also why when they did use sockets they're terrible single wipe kind.
Typically, sockets were added to machines which had issues at the factory. Your SIDs may not be bad, the timing may be off because of a PLA or other logic chip fault. Sometimes they can't act fast enough on what the CPU is sending them and make glitchy results when they work just fine at a slightly lower speed. Could also be a result of bad capacitors or drifting resistors.
great stuff! if they"socketed" everything the price go up margins go down so no dice.
Good stuff. You can knock-up an arduino DRAM tester pretty quickly. It is called Dramarduino. I made one in a vid and àlso modded it to test 4116 with an ATX psu.
Adrian, great series of videos! Looking forward to the next one.
I love this format!! Do more episodes please.
i hope you make a series of videos with C128 too :D i have The C128 so i dont know what chips usually gets bad on it etc :)
If the 8701 chip is bad you will get no signal at all. Not a black picture, instead, your tv will say ‘no signal’. I had a C64 with that broken and it was a pain to fix because I didn’t know the 8701 caused that!
That Donkey Kong music on the bad SID! Lol
these videos arent too long!
Yeah, I'm always like, what? It's been almost a half hour already? Too soon bro, too soon. ;) hahaha
But this way he gets 4 days of content lol
Drinking Game: Take a shot every time Adrian's camera crashes.
We should give the individual chips character too, like a “sick” sid. And a dead cpu.
Exciting repairathon adventure!
I bought a broken Commodore 64 for my son and fixied some years ago.
Cheers.
The easiest way to check ram failure on the c64 is to piggyback ram chips with a new one until it starts working, no soldering involved until you find the bad ones.
Ok I might have been lucky, when my ram chips went bad (several) it still started but with scrambeled characters on the screen.
14:05 No big deal, but I believe you were pointing at the U14 MOS7709 74LS258 clone while you were talking about the U6 SRAM (which almost certainly wouldn't be a MOS branded chip). Quite an entertaining series of videos nonetheless. :)
Exclusive ! SID chip self repairs ! I wish my Synths did that !
Yeah, those sids get really hot. Installing a heatsink is probably a good idea to prolong their lifetime
Wow, that's interesting that you can buy the 8701 CLK-Gen-Chip on Ali Express. I will have a look right now and buy some! Thanks! See you, Doktor64!
Machine #4: Seems only one of the three voices of the SID is bad!
Dead SIDs break my heart.
@adrian I'd love to buy the #3 board from you, I love this style of board.
@@adriansdigitalbasement Good on you, a man of good taste!
Another RF shield bites the dust :(
Adrian the horror with all those Sid chips, so many :(
Nice! These videos are so interesting!
16:56 I'm waiting for someone to remix the logic probe beeps into a chiptune song haha
In your video description, you list most everything used in the video. You know what you forgot? That flash cartridge. I'd love to get one of those.
Yea SID scavengers, I lately got a lot of 5 supposedly complete c64s only to find out that someone did swap out the original sids for defective or dead ones and probably sold them on eBay for 50+ bucks each.
Okay, let's have a little talk about semiconductors. But first, please don't blame me for language misstakes (I am from Germany). I'll give my verry best.
So you asked for effekts form "warm" chips. These chips are made of silicon. Silicon is a semicondutor with a negative temperaturecoefficient. So it conducts better when it is warm. The other thing is, that thermal stress will let the dopant drft. This changes the characteristics of the transistors and diodes. It also changes the characteristics under different temperatures.
This is not a big deal with rhis older chips. But it is a verry big thing on modern chips. But it is possible, that the temperatur make changes on the behaviour of chips.
Hi Adrian, I really enjoy your videos - they're super helpful and I feel I'm learning loads. I bought an EasyFlash3 cart recently, and am waiting for it to be delivered. Some of the apps that you use for diagnostic/testing look great. Would you be willing to share what they are, as I'm hoping to run some tests on a few C64's that I own? I don't think anyone has done a video of just diagnostics specifically - I've seen people loading apps onto the EasyFlash cart, but very few people explain how those apps can be used to diagnose issues. The two that I've seen used on the internet are the Dead Test, and the 1541 Diagnostic. Are there others I should have in my diagnostic 'toolbox' also that would be helpful? Thanks, Alan from Ireland.
Those poor SIDs! That game does sound AWESOME though when it's playing properly.
It could be possible that the SID had a intermittent heat-related fault, at first when cold it would sound like glitchy just like you described, but after letting the faulty SID warm up, it starts sounding good again... I heard many times about this kind of faults but that the first time that I hear a C64 SID chip do this!
(I used to have an Aztech Sound Galaxy soundcard that would do something similar when playing Midi files, I have very little idea what caused this but it sounded rather funny to say the least)
Could you show us up close where to place the probes to check voltages?
The SID sounds like it is going through a Bit Crusher pedal
Could the SID chip have a secret Easter egg Bird song program routine ?
Adrian thanks for the great video! At 19:00 what is the name of the pry tool/bent screwdriver you use to pull chips from the sockets? Keep up the great content!
also you should resolder cpu socket. solder may be broken so there is no good connection
love the vid keep them coming
Adrian, could you tell us more about your ic tester or provide a model or pointer please ?
This will tell ypu everything you need. Though officially this model is no longer made. Also the manufacturer has done a few things that were not exactly in good faith. The new models seem ok though.
ua-cam.com/video/FLG03f_ua5g/v-deo.html
@@adriansdigitalbasement I wasn't aware those eprom programmers could do that. Thanks.
Great series. Informational, entertaining. I enjoy hanging out in your basement. :)
I need to order one of those dead test cards. I've got 3 C64's (two bread bins and a 64c) One beard bin works fine with an R5 vic, my first C64 also a bread bin only shows just over 700 bites of ram and my 64C dose nothing. I have planes for the 64C if I can fix the board.
21:56 lol that sound chip sounds like it exploded, as for your camera crashing i wonder what chip on it is overheating and i wonder if putting a heat sink on it would fix it.
Just ordered one of those chip pullers
Commodore designed(as did most makers) computers for a 5 year life at most. so anything after that was gravy. When u were shipping millions of units a socket is expensive even at 2 cents ea. for a million not to mention u have dozens other parts to buy still. They were constantly cost reducing things. Not so much a good thing but reality of making a lot of units. i think its pretty amazing some of this stuff has lasted 20+ years.
Well... Commodore were cost reducing, but the quality generally got better with Commodore rather than worse. The later HMOS chipset is a lot more reliable than the first NMOS chipset for example. Another example is the 1541 floppy drive: The later Safronic mechanisms got cost-cuts and look cheapish, but they are way more reliable than the earlier Mitsumi mechanisms.
@@danielmantione true except for the commodore pla,and things like 8701 and other knock off chips known to have the deterioration problems from bad process. many things did improve though.
C64 power supplies never improved,at least here in the USA.
Surely all your computers have a Black screen. As the screens belong to you, so are, Adrian Black screens. :)
The MT memory chips are made by Micron Technology who still make SSD's and RAM modules today
Bad sockets? Sounds like crappy solder joints to me. desoldering and resoldering the sockets should fix it, though chances are you will replace it them.
ADRIAN BLACK, can you please make a youtube video using your oscilloscope more on measuring waveforms and explaining what the ROM chips and RAM chips are doing with the SID, PLA chips etc. I'm very confused what each chip is doing and functionality and purpose in more detail would be nice. More in theory about the digital logic of the C64 would be nice youtube video to go over the chips.
It sounds like 8 bit SAD dance party.
I heard a: *"Dead Bugs"*...
Hmm...
Maybe the previous owner had some bugs on the basement where that Commodore 64 was stored...
Could the. Distorted sound be caused by removing the shield?
Do you have a sony Alpha a6000 ? Depending on the bitrate/codec and how hard they work they overheat and just crash. I sold mine and brought a used 4k fdr-ax33 to record video. Such a shame as the alpha took the best pictures.
Man I need some of your tools. I got this revision c64 last week and at first it booted but now it's a black screen. I'm trying to diagnose it but without a working socketed board spare I'm left trying everything. Rrrrrrrrr!
I would suggest getting a batch of SwinSID Ultimate replacements for the bad SID chips, but sadly the maker is not making another batch at least going by the Facebook page. 😠
On the older C64's, back in the day, SID chips would go bad all the time based on friends and other people I know who owned a C64. We used to have to get a friend who had C64 parts to order some for us. BTW, have you ever fixed C64C's (the post 86 models)?
If you plan to get a new camera, don't buy those "4k" cameras. They will eat your storage. 1080p cameras would work the best, if you don't feel like setting up a server for only camera storage.
Anyone else just sit there and jam out at 24:40 for half a minute while sitting on the toilet?!? My wife asked “wth are you doing in there?” It’s important the world knows it. AB on UA-cam restos on c64s and a good 20 min to yourself on a porcelain throne. What could be better?
Ah yes! Bathroom acoustics with toilet bowl dolby...
You can't rush genius.
So content is great as always, but you seem to be editing it continuously. From my point of view, you don't have to take out the little middle bits, that's what gives a video a nice pacing.
As for the sound issue, could it be a problem with bad capacitors ?
How do you know where to probe for voltages? Any schematics?
Next project, building a sid replacement :)
No ESD wrist-band Adrian??
Why do the SID chips partially fail and sound glitchy? What caused that? overheat/over voltage/static damage?
Being put in upside down and getting some voltage shoved up the wrong pins?.?.?.?
@@JesusisJesus Why the question marks? YOU of all should know. Being a god and all.
Adrian Black The last SID you tested sounds like its third oscillator is always the one failing, the first and second oscillators test fine. I don’t know how SIDs were architectured, but when one osc is consistently failing, that suggests to me a chip problem rather than a capacitor problem. Just a thought. :)
Late comment, maybe someone else asked and I know you hate them, but wouldn't removing the top rf shield lead to chips overheating later? Specifically asking because of machine #3.