Fishing Vessel hits large Sailing Vessel in Good Visibility 20/8/2010
Вставка
- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
- Here is the press release from this incident.
At a hearing 30/05/2011 at Southampton Magistrates the Officer of the Watch of a fishing vessel pleaded guilty to one safety charge brought under Section 58 of the Merchant Shipping Act 1995. He was fined £1,700 plus costs of £6,435.
On the 20th August 2010 the Andrea had finished fishing and was returning to port in the Netherlands. The skipper and rest of the crew were below leaving Jan Baarssen alone on the bridge in sole charge of the vessel. The Andrea is a 36.5 metre beam trawler registered in the UK but is based in the Netherlands
The Alexander von Humboldt was returning to Germany after a training voyage with a crew of fifty nine (59) consisting of thirty three (33) trainees and twenty six (26) full time crew. She is a large three masted sail training vessel registered in Germany.
The visibility on the day was good (10 Km +), wind was southerly force 5-6 with weather being grey and overcast.
During the afternoon of the 20th August 2011 the Alexander von Humboldt detected the Andrea on a steady bearing on its port side. The Andrea was not fishing and was the give way vessel. The Alexander von Humboldt started sounding its whistle. The Andrea failed to give way. The Alexander von Humboldt also tried to contact the Andrea by VHF radio but had no response. The Andrea claims to have gone hard to starboard and when within 15-20 metres of the Alex von Humboldt, the Andrea was seen to go full astern. The Andrea struck the port quarter of the Alexander von Humboldt. It was a fairly low speed collision.
Apart from some scratched paintwork, the Andrea was undamaged.
The Alexander von Humboldt was lucky to suffer only some dented shell plating with associated damage to internal wooden bulkheads and deck planking together with bent or buckled handrails. It was very fortunate that no harm came to the crew of the Alexander von Humboldt and that its rigging and watertight integrity remained intact.
Mr Jan Baarssen, 51, of Urk, Netherlands pleaded guilty for conduct endangering ships or persons. He was finerd£1,700 plus costs of £6,435
In passing sentence the Magistrates stated that it was fortunate that they were no injuries especially among the sail training crew.
Mr David Fuller O.B.E., Principal Fishing Vessel Surveyor for the Eastern Region of the MCA stated:"This is yet another incident occurring on the return of a fishing vessel to harbour. Fishermen are reminded of the requirement to keep a good lookout at all times. Also that that the trip is not over until the vessel is safely tied up in port.
We would like to thank the German and Netherlands Police for their assistance in this matter"
The entire ocean. And this happens. It's like driving into the one tree in the Sahara desert.
@@jackoates6418 yeah dude that’s what he was referring to
The most remote tree in the world that died because someone hit it with a car?
@@Sceme1991 Twice 🙄
@Terry Melvin to be fair, it is Kansas
What astounding accuracy.
The ability to steer a motorized ship 1,700 km and hit a sailing ship in the middle of the ocean.
That's precision.
Clearly the problem is the ocean being sooo narrow.
@Gappie Al Kebabi i'm a white American and I.m a Commie so boo on you.
How this got trumped I have no clue. I like the original comment yes it's a pretty tight squeeze out there. Neither boat had any other option really
@youtubeShadowBan hahahahhahahaha
I never understand these things... even if both captains were sleeping it’s the F*****G ocean!!!!
🤦♂️
@@meatmanj9157 we think a like brother. ^_^
"With her unmistakable bellow, and green sails on full display, this vessel has indicated to the blue trawler that she is ready to mate. The trawler wastes no time in subduing his quarry, mounting her side and puffing smoke to calm her from his sudden approach."
Haha roflmao!
Im dead LOL😂😂🤣
Read this in a David Attenborough voice.
@@Welshman2008 yessss! Totally what I was going for!
@@Welshman2008 me too ... lmao
I single-handed a 28' sailboat on Chesapeake Bay for six years, and dealt with very large freighters in the shipping channels nearly every time out. I don't mention this to prove some kind of great sailing prowess, but to point out that over the years I had many opportunities to be run over by large boats.
Forget about stand-on and give-way vessels for a moment, and just look at the situation as it unfolded: On the sailing ship you can immediately tell you're on a collision course because your angle of bearing on the fisherman isn't changing. The sailing skipper thinks so , too , as he starts blowing his horn. However, he is NOT blowing the requisite five short blasts for the signal, but just long blasts over and over.
Another 15 seconds have passed, the other boat hasn't reacted, and you have 80-some souls on board for which you are responsible. This is no time to play chicken.
I was taught when in situations where the give-way vessel is not doing so, the stand-on vessel MUST take action to avoid a collision, and that action should be very direct and definitive. A square-rigged ship can only
come to within about 65 degrees of the wind, so his options were limited.
Still, he could have fallen off, or maybe even gybed, or even come up into the wind. He had time to do any of it,, but he chose to do nothing and get crashed into. Not the choice I would have made with that many on board.i
I agree
Freighters have r/w to rec craft regardless.
James Schrumpf what part of the chesapeake?
I have only sailed my family’s 27’ sloop when I was a lad, but I learned important things (including survival things) before daring to helm our little sloop. Large commercial vessels have the ROW in channels and other restricted areas. But even on the open seas, I was taught many many years ago at the Offshore Sailing School at City Island, New York that it is better to be safe and sound than to hold fast when you have the ROW.
I still remember reading about a terrible tragedy that happened on the Long Island Sound back then. Some guy with more money than brains was operating his new cabin cruiser (somewhere around 45’ if I recall) at night. Subsequent questioning found that the man knew nothing about lights and yet was out at night. I don’t recall if alcohol was involved. He was up on the flying bridge and his family was below. He saw the tug boat heading in his direction and decided he would slow down a bit and cut behind the tug. The crew of the tug saw what was unfolding and frantically shined multiple spotlights behind them. The man didn’t see this or didn’t know why they were doing it. They were doing it to trying to warn him of the barge about fifty meters behind them that they were towing via large steel cables. He didn’t know that the light configuration they had on indicated they were towing a barge. When the tug repeated blasted warnings with their horn, the man thought that they thought he was going to cut in front of the tug, but since he was planning to cut behind it, there was nothing to worry about.
The tug crew did everything right-everything they could do to try to avert a tragedy. A tug towing a barge is another exception to the ROW rules since they cannot change course or speed in anything much less than a nautical mile or so. The man was clueless and continued on his course. He rode his cabin cruiser up over the large steel cables causing his boat to roll upside down and in the process hurled the man off the bridge and into the water. A large gash was opened up in the hull of the cabin cruiser. The man was picked up by another boat. The rest of his family belowdecks was not so fortunate. They drowned as the cabin cruiser quickly filled with water and sank in 100 feet of water. I don’t remember if he was charged with anything (other than stupidity). Bottom line: you should know what you’re doing when you skipper a boat of any size and take care not to put your passengers’ lives at risk because of your ignorance.
That was my first thought! Why this suckers don’t turn when they see No reaction from fishing boat! Don’t they know how hard fishermen work? They were probably asleep for 4 hours out of 24 day...
Must have been in the Atlantic. If they had been in the Pacific, they would have had enough room.
Exactly
I expect they were in the North Sea.
Sounds like it might actually have been in the Channel.
@Dean Zinter they dont roam around in the 5 billions, there are something called "Commercial maritime routes" so ships cant get lost
@@Bruce-1956 more than likely. The fishing boat is from Peterhead, which is on the North East coast of Scotland.
When the smoke came out he probably had been awake for three seconds 😂
If anybody is wondering the black smoke is from the diesel engine(s) being put under extreme load. So what happened was the captain woke up, freaked out (oh shit), put the boat in reverse and quickly placed the throttles in a full position. Of course it was way too late.
the boys had too many cold ones on that vessel
Smoke, indicates sudden reverse gear. Yes a few seconds.
Know the rules... Rule #1 Avoid collisions no matter who has right of way.
Exactly. Both of them are liable.
It’s Rule #17b…
(b) When, from any cause, the vessel required to keep her course and speed finds herself so close that collision cannot be avoided by the action of the give-way vessel alone, she shall take such action as will best aid to avoid collision.
We can’t tell from this video if the sailing vessel attempted to maneuver out of the way when it became clear the power vessel was not giving way. Most likely they did, but their speed and maneuverability under sail weren’t sufficient to prevent the collision.
The fishing vessel was supposed to give way. The sailing ship was the stand on vessel. Fishing vessel obviously at fault.
No, the fishing vessel was entirely liable. "The Andrea was not fishing and was the give way vessel." You also can't quickly or easily change the course for a sailing vessel of this size.
@@DavidMeddowsTaylor Only a complete idiot stands on and has a collision. The stand on vessel has the same level of responsibility to avoid the collision, this is covered by Rule 2. The sailing vessel could have changed speed and or altered course well before this situation developed. I pulled a 180 in a car carrier and ran the wrong way up the TSS at Calais at 2am to avoid a crossing vessel which failed to give way. French VTS had kittens on the radio but I threaded the ship through the other traffic, turned around and rejoined the TSS about 20 minutes later.
This is very entertaining and instructive, and not uncommon. Classic crossing situation. Under the Rules the fishing vessel under power and under way is the 'give way' vessel. (I'll assume the sailing vessel did not have it's auxiliary engine running). 'Stand-on" vessel is the sailing vessel under sail. So far so good. Using what's called the "doctrine of stages" the fishing vessel, at a safe distance, would normally maintain speed, give one short blast and make a 'broad and early' alteration of course to starboard so as to pass well clear of the stern of the sailing vessel. Job Finished! [This would be the stage where the action of one vessel alone will avoid a collision}. The sailing vessel's duty is to maintain course and speed until the danger has passed.
In the next stage the 'give-way' vessel (i.e. the fishing vessel) does not give way and maintains course and speed. Since the sailing vessel prudently monitors the bearing and range of the fishing vessel, and notes that she is not giving way, then she must sound 5 short and rapid blasts on the ships whistle to indicate to the other vessel that she is not satisfied with her actions.
Nothing changes....the fishing vessel's bearing is unchanged, but it's range is closing; the sailing vessel is still maintaining course and speed as required, but starts to continuously sound his whistle, probably as a General Alarm to rouse his crew. The long blast has no meaning within the Rules.
The final stage is the most difficult and easily forgotten. Moving through the Rules we reach the point where action by one vessel alone can no longer avoid a close quarters situation (i.e. risk of collision). It is now when most sailing vessels start insisting upon their rights, when in fact their rights have just disappeared and all they're left with is obligations. I have compressed stages 3 and 4, and now collision is imminent. The Rules now require BOTH vessels to take action to avoid the collision. This can be a slackening of speed, alteration of course, stopping the vessel, or a combination of them all.
So it now requires that both vessel sound the appropriate sound signal (one for an alteration to starboard, 2: to port, 3: engines astern), and take appropriate action so as to clear the other vessel. In this case the sailing vessel should have put his rudder hard to starboard and turned to parallel the course of the fishing vessel. This would have reduced the closing speed and converted the fishing vessel into an overtaking vessel(but not within the meaning of the Rules). A further alteration to starboard, when it is safe to do so, would take her away from the track of the fishing vessel at right angles. However, if the sailing vessel had left it any longer, and a turn away (to starboard) would have resulted in her stern swinging towards the very near fishing vessel, he might had been better off to go hard to port to 'kick' his stern clear of the vessel's bow. That manoeuvre should be accompanied by a prayer.
Obviously somebody gets to the bridge of the fishing vessel eventually. Watch for the big chuff of black smoke as he puts the propellor or engine Full Astern, 'lugging' the diesel into overload. Later you can see the prop wash boil as the propellor starts to bite astern. The fishing vessel should also have put her rudder hard to starboard immediately, to get the bow swinging. The crew of the sailing vessel just seem to stand and stare until after the contact.
Luckily the fishing vessel was able to take off almost all her way, so the result was only a dented poop and some rigging lost. What bothers me is that the sailing vessel did nothing, and they have a rookie or paying crew on board. I hope the Master read his ColRegs and held a tarpaulin muster afterwards, telling his charges what he did wrong, otherwise they'll all go around muttering about 'we had right of way' etc.
I'd apportion costs on about a 80-20% basis against the fishing vessel. Worse things happen at sea. Enjoy!!
Captain Colin Smith, M.Sc, ex-Examiner of Masters and Mates, credits in Salvage, Admiralty and Collision Law, ex-Marine Casualty Investigator, Canadian Government.
REMEMBER!!! Eventually everybody moves!!
You can't have a crossing situation with between a power driven vessel and a sailing vessel. Crossing is for 2 PDV crossing in sight of one another where risk of collision exists.
Judging by the comments, it's not hard to see who has spent a good amount of their time on the water and who has simply read a book.
Thank you Cap'n.
"What bothers me is that the sailing vessel did nothing," Absolutely! It is a little difficult to tell as there are no objects on the horizon, but to me it almost looks like the sailboat turned to starboard late, and pushed it's own stern into the powered vessel. A turn to port at that stage would have avoided all contact
This sailing vessel has a large aux engine and while nothing indicates it's use, it should have been at the ready while in congested waters and light winds.
80-20 is about there I would draw the line as well. -10 years a commissioned officer in the USCG. -2 years a USCGC Eagle Sailor
Seadub16 I teach COLREGS for a living a job which I have obtained by spending a good amount of time on the water and have sailed as an officer aboard commercial and naval vessels as well as worked for a maritime P&I Club. Colin Smith gave an excellent synopsis in all parts except one. I especially appreciate the 80-20 apportionment, everyone no matter what will always have some blame because of the way COLREGS are written. Everyone as Colin said eventually must move, and that is so important to understand!
However, my one gripe as stated above is that the fishing vessel must stay out of the way of all sailing vessels due to Rule 18 (Responsibilities of Vessels). All power driven vessels stay out of the way of sailing vessels period (unless the sailing vessel is overtaking you).
This cannot be considered a crossing situation. Rule 15 (Crossing Situation) paragraph (a) confirms that crossing situations refer only to 2 power driven vessels crossing so as to involve risk of collision.
While quibbling about rules may seem like mere book knowledge we have these rules for a reason and it is frustrating when no mariners take the time to learn the rules properly. Many lives might be saved if people would put in the effort.
No doubt in my mind the fishing vessel was on auto-pilot. When I heard the horn I would have run to the bridge with an un-wiped rear end and my pants down.
LOL
Autopilot or not, someone should always be watching at the helm. At least *near* it and able to get there within 10 steps.
TMI
@@MegaBob222222 Sometimes you're sitting on the head and you just gotta get off in a hurry. Been there done that.
@Yoyo seven LOL! The point is one way or another we're getting to the bridge!
I realised early in my motorcycling career that it doesn't matter a fig having right-of-way if you're dead. That's probably why I'm still alive.
id rather be a live chicken then a dead duck.
Indeed. "He was in the right as he rode along, but he's just as dead as if he was wrong".
If both ships attempt to give way, collisions happen. Collisions are very rare and require criminal incompetence.
very wise words
A biker once told me about car drivers " half of them don't see you, the other half WANT to hit you". Looks like that rule applies to fishing boats too.
Number 1 rule of navigation: avoid collision whether you think you're stand on vessel or not. Both captains are at fault to a certain degree the trawler being the greater guilty party
The trawler is guilty of not following the rules. The sailboat is guilty of not avoiding the collision which is greater principal / purpose. Maritime court could go either way but if it were my decision the sailboat was aware of the situation / danger for a long time and did nothing.
@@shamoy1000 The trawler is also guilty of not avoiding the collision... and was the giveway vessel. The trawler is also probably guilty of not keeping a proper watch.
@@shamoy1000 I wouldn't say he did nothing.
@@daved3549 You're right. He blew the horn and maintained course. He also decided to not relinquish the right of way. At least this is what I could see. Thanks for your input.
No, rule 1 is to behave predictably, which includes maintaining your course when you're the stand-on vessel so that the give-way vessel doesn't have to second-guess your actions as he tries to get out of your way.
"BLAST HORN ALL YOU WANT, THESE *OUR* FISHING WATERS ROUND EYE"
@@uncleorev3738 the Humboldt is a German ship and had a home port at the time of Bremerhaven. The trawler was registered in the UK but operated out of the Nethetlands. Who is the idiot now?
@@uncleorev3738 it was a joke, what’s your problem?
I wouldn't stay on a collision course just because I had the right-of-way.
64Seawind There both stupid. You see it might be a problem! React ! Nope both dopes just keep moving. Lol.
Be good to know , right before you drown well I had the right of way.!!!!!
This is where a harpoon gun comes in handy....to use as a tow line of course! Lol ☠
Its not like you can turn a tallship on a dime, let alone one that's under sail, every course change takes a lot of planning, and considerable time to execute. Before they would have determined impact was imminent the collision was 90 seconds away (watch the video above, its in real time) and then google the ship "Alexander von Humboldt" to get an idea of the size.
Power gives way to sail -one of the first navigation rules you learn
Here lies the body of Captain O'Day,
He died defending his right of way,
He was right,dead right, as he sailed along,
But just as dead as if he was wrong.
+Pete Spencer... Well said Pete, that sailboat has a 900 HP CAT Diesel. Turn the key and get the hell out of the way, who gives a shit if the sails start flogging, its better than drowning. If the fishing vessel hadn't slowed at the very last minute the yacht would have been cut in two.
Love it. I use this video as an example for people who get on a pedestal over right of way. Constant bearing decreasing range, no radio in the middle of the damned ocean, laughable that anyone faults the fishing vessel rather than the helm on the sailing vessel that could've just turned. Sure, get on your radio and gripe all you want but helm allowed his vessel to get in a collision.
fishing vessel cant turn that fast and if they are drag they cant do much because they might get a trawl line around the prop where this sail boat could of moved with out doing much
That wasn't what happened here. Nobody was on the bridge of the fishing vessel listening to radio or standing watch. The sailing vessel should have recognized that something was wrong and changed course. They could've spent the rest of the day bitching at the fishing vessel over the radio but at least they would've avoided a collision.
Neither vessels were paying attention. There should have been radio contact well before the incident. Poor seamanship from both.
Friday, 01 July 2011 11:26
AT a hearing yesterday at Southampton Magistrates Court, the Officer of the Watch of a fishing vessel pleaded guilty to one safety charge brought under Section 58 of the Merchant Shipping Act 1995.
On the 20th August 2010 the Andrea had finished fishing and was returning to port in the Netherlands. The skipper and rest of the crew were below leaving Jan Baarssen alone on the bridge in sole charge of the vessel. The Andrea is a 36.5 metre beam trawler registered in the UK but is based in the Netherlands.
The Alexander von Humboldt three masted sail training vessel was returning to Germany after a training voyage with a crew of fifty nine (59) consisting of thirty three (33) trainees and twenty six (26) full time crew.
The visibility on the day was good, wind was southerly force 5-6 with weather being grey and overcast.
During the afternoon of the 20th August 2011 the Alexander von Humboldt detected the Andrea on a steady bearing on its port side. The Andrea was not fishing and was the give way vessel. The Alexander von Humboldt started sounding its whistle. The Andrea failed to give way. The Alexander von Humboldt also tried to contact the Andrea by VHF radio but had no response. The Andrea claims to have gone hard to starboard and when within 15-20 metres of the Alex von Humboldt, the Andrea was seen to go full astern. The Andrea struck the port quarter of the Alexander von Humboldt. It was a fairly low speed collision.
Apart from some scratched paintwork, the Andrea was undamaged.
The Alexander von Humboldt was lucky to suffer only some dented shell plating with associated damage to internal wooden bulkheads and deck planking together with bent or buckled handrails. It was very fortunate that no harm came to the crew of the Alexander von Humboldt and that it’s rigging and watertight integrity remained intact.
Mr Jan Baarssen, 51, of Urk, Netherlands pleaded guilty for conduct endangering ships or persons. He was fined £1,700 plus costs of £6,435.
In passing sentence the Magistrates stated that it was fortunate that they were no injuries especially among the sail training crew.
Mr David Fuller OBE, Principal Fishing Vessel Surveyor for the Eastern Region of the Maritime and Coastguard Agency stated: “This is yet another incident occurring on the return of a fishing vessel to harbour. Fishermen are reminded of the requirement to keep a good lookout at all times. Also that that the trip is not over until the vessel is safely tied up in port. We would like to thank the German and Netherlands Police for their assistance in this matter.”#2 Fri, July, 1, 2011 2:32pm
They may have down below and a rookie was steering but I'm pretty sure they heard the horn blowing for quite some time before the crash. They would have had plenty of time to up to deck and make corrections to steer past the sailing vessel, one degree to starboard would have done the trick at 100 yards out, they had a thousand.
Bet they'd responded to the almost silent by comparison ak47 burst peppering the bridge..... none on the trawler should be allowed access to any body of waters larger than a bathtub for life.... not a seaman anywhere on that garbage scowl.
This is what keel hauling was about and in some instances should be reinstated to punishment under maritime law.
Thank you for clarifying the final outcome. I had read other commenters claiming they saw fishing lines out, but the booms were inboard. The motorized fishing boat was required to give way to the wind powered sailing vessel, regardless of who was on starboard.
It really is a miracle that no one died.
Why did you not alter course? As you nuts?
I've been Captain of large ships, commercial fishing boats(grew up on a family boat), tugs, offshore oilfield vessels, and when I retired sailed my Ingid 38' "Solitude" all around the Pacific Basin, Alaska to New Zealand, for ten years. I always had the biggest radar reflector possible. Most Ships these days sail with short and unqualified crew. I had bright deck lights and spot light. Even so I had several close calls way at sea.
I like your qualifications. I spent several years fishing and a few doing SAR small boats in in CG. This was preventable of course but its a double edge. I would really like to know the true story from the fishing boat too.
@@1Lindseyw1 -- A very likely a simple answer, asleep or down below getting some coffee or checking the engine room. They were very lucky 🍀 it was a glancing blow, it very easily taken out the rudder and the whole stern quarter. A moment before reversing, I think the sailboat would have been sunk.
The whole entire ocean- and they both have to come together on this one tiny part of it.
That is how collisions happen.lol.
@Allyn Howell LOL and what did that useless law get these people? NOTHING! THAT'S WHAT!
Would you call that Ocean Rage
@Allyn Howell I will apply the same level of social skills you used, OK? Herewith is my reply. I only 2 words of Vietnamese "PHA QU!"
@Allyn Howell I knew my last comment would send you off your trolley. LOL I will ignore you from now on.
That's right, I want to go just like my grandpa in his sleep peacefully, not like the screaming passengers of his boat.
When I sail, I avoid the power boats like the plague.
I always pass to their aft.
Always a good idea. The rules of the road can get confusing, so it’s always better to be willing to be the give-way boat.
Sail boats are the plague, especially single handed ones
sailboats are the plague
Blowboats make good artificial reefs
In my opinion both helms men are guilty, especially the one on a training vessel should be a better example and turn his vessel out of the danger zone. Having right, is not always being right.
The international rules of the road are CLEAR in this matter, The trawler was the burdened vessel both from the standpoint of its position relative to the sailboat AND the fact that it WAS a sailboat
Ships under Sail ALWAYS have right of way, it appears no one was at the helm of the fishing boat
20 years as a Offshore master, Captain Alexander Czimback.
As a trainer on much smaller boats, one of the first lessons we teach is to avoid collision regardless of who is right! better to argue of broken rules than deal with an accident, I totally agree Felix Niederhauser, even though it may have been uncomfortable for the sailing vessel to go about in F5-6 winds but not impossible! Or they could have hove to until the fishing boat passed
You are missing the point, the sailing vessel was already committed, he cannot move as fast or change course as quickly as the power vessel.
No one experienced was at the hem of the power vessel , and the vessel under sail could not reach him on the radio. Read the Coast Guard conclusion.
I am a retired Offshore Master with more than twenty years experience, I have never even come close to a collision at sea.
Your opinion is actually meaningless. Maritime law and custom grants Right of way. In this case, Right of way between a vessel under sail and a vessel under power, ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS goes to the vessel under sail. Always.
Number one rule of safe boating: Don't hit any other boats no matter what. Your fault my fault nobody's fault, it doesn't matter. Don't hit any other boats no matter what.
There are rules to be followed, the sailing boat had right of way, one because its a SV and two the fishing boat was off his Port Bow, poor seamanship from the skipper of that fishing boat, very poor indeed
@@BillSikes. I know that. I also don't see any maneuver for the SV that would have had a better outcome. As it is they almost cleared the tubs path.
@@pnotuner1
Well the skipper of that SV could of bore away a few degrees enough to avoid collision, it wouldn't of taken a great deal, or he could of even headed up and left and left her in Irons, poor seamanship from both parties, but the fishing boat was in the wrong right from the start
That's also true just driving a vehicle out on a roadway; your fault, my fault, nobody's fault, don't want the ppwk & don't have time to be getting repairs done, God forbid anyone is injured, etc...
@@BillSikes. Yep, I have no experience out there, but was thinking the same thing... After they pass, that's what the 'bird' is for...
The person on watch probably fell asleep after an all night fishing.
Claude C heck they go for days with very little sleep or no sleep.
@@2olvets443 I didn't think it was possible to fall asleep standing up until I worked on a boat like that.
Fishing vessels only get the status of VEIF (Vessel Engaged in Fishing) when they are engaged in fishing with fishing apparatus which restricts maneuverability (ie nets, lines, trawls). In this case the fishing vessel was using no such devices and is therefore treated as a power driven vessel.
A lot of people seem to blame both captains here as it may appear that either could have stopped or changed course, but they appear to know little of the situation. The Von Humboldt is a 65m (200ft) three masted, square rigged, classic sailing vessel, under sail. The wind was 5bft.
The options the captain had was
(1) stay on course, which is usually the right thing to do and happened here.
(2) slow down by dropping the sails and putting engine in rear, this would take 10 minutes with a well-trained crew and requires putting the ship on a course where this can be done given the wind direction, but this was a training vessel, so probably even longer. A vessel this size, can easily take a minute or more to bring to a full stop when running under engine alone. Even if that were possible here, it could have led to being hit midship.
(3) speeding up by adding engine power. While this may seem logical, ships of these types have a maximum speed given by their size and waterline. A ship like this hits that speed from 4bft, depending on course. In these winds, it was most likely at max speed, and no amount of horse power would change that. Even if it would, it'd be marginal, and while we can't hear it, it's possible that the skipper actually tried it anyway, preventing a worse bow or midship collision. A ship is not a car, you often cannot speed up or even quickly slow down.
(4) change course. Being square rigged and having winds that exceed 20 knots, gusts maybe even higher, such a maneuver requires careful planning to prevent dangerous situations. Such change requires almost all crew (here 59 people). It's likely, but not visible in the video, that he did change course within the safety margin and prevented worse.
There are other options, but I think you'll get the gist of it.
Bottom line, he only had bad choices. Slowing down meant worse collision, speeding up was likely not possible, and changing course would be a danger to the crew and against the "good seamanship" rule of being clear in your intent by staying on course. It's also not uncommon to use the horn to warn another vessel, or radio, and typically you get an answer within seconds. After exhausting that option, in the few seconds left the skippers of both vessels were out of time and out of luck.
I'm writing this as I sail in the same waters and am well aware of the danger of reckless behavior of fishing trawlers even when they aren't fishing. My ship is only 44ft and 10 ton, but even such a small ship, when under sail, takes a skilled skipper easily 20 seconds to bring it to a standstill (heat the engine, start the engine, steer in the wind, drop main sail and genua). But the real problem is that you usually expect the other vessel to react properly (and in 99.999% that's exactly what happens), by the time you find out he doesn't or is sleeping, it can be too late to take action instead.
Luckily the chance on accidents at sea is far far less than on the road, train, or even by plane.
If you read my analysis properly, you would have read that l assumed his auxiliary engine was not running. If he starts it, he becomes a power-driven vessel, and the analysis of two power-driven vessels meeting is a much simpler challenge.
It is crystal clear who is at fault here. Too many stupid comments to count!
The fishing boat is at fault but the sailing boat could have avoided the crash and lodged a complaint with the coastguard.
@@m1leswilliams it’s not easy to alter the course of a sailing boat of that size at all. Sailing boat was on starboard too for what it’s worth
@@m1leswilliams It would take a long time to change course on a sailing vessel like this. Certainly a complain, if not a law suit was pursued.
they are both at fault the fishing vessel sound the danger alarm. ( Maybe he lost controls. There is no right of way on the ocean.
@@davidealger4293 No.
The fishing boat was clearly at a very high throttle just before the collision, I assume this was in reverse...?
Tom Reed ,well spotted!
1-FV exhibit day shapes = engaged in fishing = stand on vessel = SV give way vessel.
2-FV without day shapes = power driven vessel = give way vessel = SV stand on vessel.
The fact that the SV is eventually under power (exhibiting day shape) doesn’t change those two cases.
COLREGs rule 5 for FV.
COLREGs rule 2 & 17(a ii) (b) for SV.
It's quite simple, the guy steering the fishing boat went for a crap!!
Seems to me that bridge was empty myself, just about every part of me thinks nobody was at the helm of the fishing boat.
I was anchored and happily fishing near Hudson Florida when so dick in a 50 foot commercial fishing boat hit my boat nose to nose and road down the side of my boat. This was the 3rd time I took my new boat out and this asshole hits me with nothing but miles and miles of open water to either side of me. After he realizes what happened he yelled over to me and i quote " I'm sorry, I left the helm to go take a pee" I responded with "Oh that explains it, so you're not a complete moron"
Fucking meth head commercial fisherman. You should have seen him when I said I need to call the coast guard even though he "assured" me that he'd get me a new boat... LOL... He was fined for negligent operation and fined 5 grand. He also had to pay me 6 grand to fix my boat.
AceJams
scary shit..
Well thats different more likely he fell asleep having been awake all night gutting or similar
Exactly and from the clouds of black smoke coming from the engine exhaust he suddenly realized and went full astern ,he definitely was not towing his gear at that speed as any trawler man would know
The International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea, 1972.
The trawler:-
Rule 5 failure to maintain a lookout
Rule 7 (a) (b) failure to determine a risk of a collision
Rule 16 action by give way vessel
Rule 18 (a) (iv) responsibilities between vessels failure to give way
The sailing vessel:-
Rule 7 (d) (i) failure to determine a risk of a collision
Rule 8 (a) action to avoid a collision
Rule 17 (a) (ii) action by stand on vessel
90/10
The trawler was stand on, also restricted by his gear, get your facts right
Michael Smith the trawler was not fishing, but was steaming, and therefore was not the stand on vessel. I include below the MCA's report taken from their website into this collision summarising the Judgment of the Southampton Magistrates Court.
"Fisherman fined following collision with sail training vessel
Defendant: At Southampton Magistrates’ Court Date of Hearing: 30 June 2011 Date of Offence: 20 August 2010 Offence: Contravening Section 58 of the Merchant Shipping Act 1995.
Details: On the 20th August 2010 the Andrea had finished fishing and was returning to port in the Netherlands. The skipper and rest of the crew were below leaving one person alone on the bridge in sole charge of the vessel.
The Andrea is a 36.5 metre beam trawler registered in the UK but is based in the Netherlands
The Alexander von Humboldt was returning to Germany after a training voyage with a crew of fifty nine (59) consisting of thirty three (33) trainees and twenty six (26) full time crew. She is a large three masted sail training vessel registered in Germany.
The visibility on the day was good (10 Km +), wind was southerly force 5-6 with weather being grey and overcast.
During the afternoon of the 20th August 2011 the Alexander von Humboldt detected the Andrea on a steady bearing on its port side.
The Andrea was not fishing and was the give way vessel. The Alexander von Humboldt started sounding its whistle. The Andrea failed to give way.
The Alexander von Humboldt also tried to contact the Andrea by VHF radio but had no response.
The Andrea claims to have gone hard to starboard and when within 15-20 metres of the Alex von Humboldt, the Andrea was seen to go full astern.
The Andrea struck the port quarter of the Alexander von Humboldt. It was a fairly low speed collision. Apart from some scratched paintwork, the Andrea was undamaged.
The Alexander von Humboldt was lucky to suffer only some dented shell plating, with associated damage to internal wooden bulkheads and deck planking, together with bent or buckled handrails.
It was very fortunate that no harm came to the crew of the Alexander von Humboldt and that its rigging and watertight integrity remained intact.
Penalty: Was fined £1,700 plus costs of £6,435"
@@MichaelSmith-nd4rr read the description so YOU can get your facts straight lol.
@@MichaelSmith-nd4rr Think again. ‘Fishing vessel’ within the meaning of the Rules can only be invoked if the vessel is indeed fishing. But when it is under power and not fishing it is just another power-driven vessel, and should be treated as such, again within the rules. The lights, shapes and priority she has is to let those around her know that she cannot easily alter course or speed, and so is to be avoided. The Colregs are about safety, not about who is right. The prudent mariner takes avoiding action very early and at such a range that he avoids a Close Quarters situation completely.
You’re in charge, wake me if we hit anything
Paul Langford must be right: "A maritime court of law decided otherwise, with all the facts and witness statements...."
A large number of the comments here show a great lack of understanding of the collision regulations. Just remember that the sail-training vessel "Alexander Von Humboldt (1)" was 205 feet long and not nearly as manoeuvrable as many seem to think!
Here lies the body of Captain O'Day,
He died defending his right of way,
He was right, dead right, as he sailed along,
But just as dead as if he was wrong.
@@CptSchmidt Nice poem but keep in mind the sail boat has the installed horse power equivalent of two cars while weighing 400 000 kg. Turning to port would have brought the stern even closer to the intersecting point with the derelict motor vessel.
@@christianeriksson4733
But if the sailing vessel had turned to starboard they might have been able to avoid collision entirely.
Rule 17b: "When, from any cause, the vessel required to keep her course and speed finds herself so close that collision cannot be avoided by the action of the give-way vessel alone, she shall take such action as will best aid to avoid collision."
Regardless, she must operate within the rules.
But equally, regardless of it’s length and sailpower, if it cannot make an alteration dictated by the Rules, should it be out there at all? Or should he have had NUC balls up to acquaint vessels in the area that it cannot manoeuvre at all. 200 feet is not big for any vessel these days, even a sailing ship. Face it! He did wrong.
Unless in a designated area e.g ferry crossing harbours, the number one rule of the sea is 'power gives way to sail'. Let's face it, he didn't do it purpose he was fast asleep at the helm.
I think the same, maybe drunk and passed out...
Even I know that...
His outriggers are out. He is in what is called a run. He has nets behind him. Value around 250k. If he turns he probably looses those nets. Possibly gets a deckhand hurt as rigging repositions. At the very least looses the entire trip salvaging the damaged nets. Loss to the deckhands, estimated 8k each Captain loss estimated loss 32k company loss estimated between 250k- 1 million dollars
@@libertylover4016 Your post totally contradicts the findings of the official inquiry/trial....I guess you know better! (???)
@@libertylover4016 Look more closely at the video (for example, around 0:55), and you'll see that he is NOT using his nets. But even if he was, his unambiguous obligation is to turn to starboard, to pass clear behind the other vessel.
That ocean was just NOT big enough for those two boats, period.
So many people debating this. This isn't difficult. It's cut and dry.
The fishing vessel is the give way vessel
The sailing vessel is the stand on vessel.
All fault lies with the fishing vessel.
But what you have to remember is that the "stand on" vessel has responsibility to change course as soon as he sees that collision cannot be avoided by the "give-way" vessel's maneuver alone. The sailing vessel never did that and bears some responsibility for that.
Charles Gullickson Don't comment then
Not at all cut-and-dried. Hence the debate. All fault does not lie with the fishing vessel. You’re confusing the ColRegs (quasi-criminal law) with an action for damages (civil action). Both would try the case using the ColRegs, but thethreshold of proof is lower in a civil case (e.g. O.J. Simpson escaped a criminal conviction for murder because the culpatory evidence was not ‘beyond a reasonable doubt’. But he was successfully sued by the family for damages because the threshold of proof for concluding that he murdered her is 'on a balance of probabilities.’). Don’t forget that the Prosecutors could have charged the sailing vessel too under the Merchant Shipping Acts (in which the ColRegs are enshrined) for it’s failure to comply with it’s responsibility to take action itself to avoid the collision. If both ships are moving, never gets off Scot free.
Yes but most about 99% of people debating have zero understanding of the COLREGS if even they have heard of them.
Brendan Kruse If the stand-on vessel changes course then it might make the situation worse, i.e. turning the same way the give way vessel is. It's called "stand-on" for a reason. So that doesn't happen.
"We know a thing or two because we have seen a thing or two" "We are Farmers"
bum de bum de bum bum bum
@@ownpetard8379 Right on.
They tried to say Trump was at the helm on both vessels
Look we all know what Happened , they were done fishing all of the crew were below sleeping . one crewman left to steer the boat fell a sleep and woke up too late to avoid the ship under sail .
They weren't fishing....
Wrong ~ they are following a "Fish finder" sonar & will turn anyways without Warning & no heed to nearby Vessels..
I think you are right.
The sailing vessel made no attempt to maneuver to avoid a collision once it was clear that the fishing vessel was not going to give way. That makes them partially at fault. Rule two people, rule two.
Thanks Jared. I feel operators of sailing vessels are like cyclists. They are usually ill-informed, and have a Bolshie attitude flowing from their ignorance of the ColRegs. There is no inherent right, but I’m sure the club-house rings with tales like DonziGT230 above and his guns, or just tales where power-driven vessels have threatened their ‘right of way’ long after it has dissolved and they are required to take action. I am very wary of sailing vessels of any size. I don’t know what they know, or how long they’ve had the boat, or if the wife is standing alongside him ordering him to assert his rights. Scary people!
The fishing vessel is mostly at fault, but the sailing vessel failed to take some required steps to avoid collision. They just thought to themselves "hey, we have right of way, we're a sailboat!!" then proceeded to get hit anyways. The fishing vessel was likely on autopilot as I don't see shore nearby.
Came to read comment section full of experts...not disappointed.
The real issue while playing Chicken, is knowing when to flinch Jonesy.
I'm a professional mariner, and you're not wrong. Even if you have right of way you don't have the right to stand on into a collision.
Hunt for Red October ftw
Being a British Rocker..." chicken" is a favourite pastime. Since I also have a river cruiser the one thing that makes me less worried about flinching is having a steel hull with a 10mm re-enforcement on my bow and extra bracing inside. As Tacticus may have said.. "Always endeavour to have the superior weapon"
I would like to have seen Montana,.... x_x
No evasive action was taken other than blowing his horn, what a pleb. The captain on the fishing boat could have become incapacitated for some reason not known. The sailing captain had plenty of time and spent too much time second-guessing and not even turning to port once he was broadside of the fishing vessel to minimise the impact if not actually clear the impending bow.
The international rules of the road are CLEAR in this matter, The trawler was the burdened vessel both from the standpoint of its position relative to the sailboat AND the fact that it WAS a sailboat
@@real_Papa_Roach correct me if I'm wrong but, right of way would be to the fishing vessel if the fishing vessel was actively fishing.
ah forget it.. I just read that the vessel was not fishing.
@@real_Papa_Roach I do agree, but from the skipper on the sailboat, he could have done a lot more than blowing his horn.
I bet the fishing boat captain was on board 24/7 for the entire time until he had to go unload a huge baked potato, 2 big slices of ham, some canned beans, 2 pieces of chocolate cake with extra thick frosting from the big dinner the night before...It happens all the time...The stress from the horn blowing just made him more constipated and he took longer than usual ...
From my experience on fishing boats in Alaska, many skippers set their gear, turn on the auto-pilot and go down for a nap. They usually have some sort of alarm that is activated if their radar detects another vessel. Sometimes they are working on the deck and no one is in the pilot house. They know its risky to do this but... time is money.
Why is there a different ship at the beginning
Just to show how close big ships can come even on the vast oceans.
Only guessing, but likely to show that there was another vessel in the vicinity/bearing down on the sailing vessel and therefore a sudden course alteration for collision avoidance with the fishing vessel would have been impossible/unsafe: Otherwise it's beyond imagination that an experienced skipper would not have put about at the last minute or before, to avoid the impending collision.
That was in the rear view mirror
@@gurglejug627 "...it's beyond imagination that an experienced skipper would not have put about at the last minute or before, to avoid the impending collision."
A large, multimasted sailing ship can't just make a major course change in an instant.
@@seikibrian8641 it ultimately depends on the circumstance of course, there is speculation in all of this for any of us who were nit there, but I'd say that what you say would be extremely rare in the case of such an emergency. Are you a skipper with experience in international and heavily trafficked waters?
When it became clear that the power vessel was nor responding, the sailing vessel should have come right to parallel the power vessel's course to avoid collision.
"I had the right of way" Is always impressive on a tombstone.
You can not do any large maneuvers fast on sail-ship that has square rigging and the sails up, that is why you have the rule of motorboats to give way in the first place. ZorbaTheDutch said in very informative answer 10 months ago:
The sailing ship is a former light vessel turned into a barque. It's 62 meters long and weighs 400 ton. It has three masts of which two are rigged square. Making a meaningful course change with a ship like that, a change that might have avoided the collision, is pretty much impossible, by the time it becomes clear the relatively easily maneuverable fishing boat isn't going to give way.
So yeah, all blame on the fishing boat here and people below here have no clue about the lack of maneuverability of a sailing ship like that one."
The rule for motorboats to give way for sailboats was made specially with the squared rigged boats in mind and is not because it is just a "tradition" like some seems to belive. Boat like that that take 20 - 100 men doing carfully coordinated adjustments to the sails to make a maneuver and this is something that takes minutes to do when all the men are ready at their post. You can not just fire up the engines and do any maneuverer you want on a sailboat like that while the sails are up.............
@@a64738 Sailer had LOADS of time to either stop or turn LOADS OF TIME
@@Interdiction Did you even read my comment?
Doing maneuvers on a sail ship like that involves large parts of the crew doing thing at same time in a coordinated fashion and it takes minutes to do them correctly to avoid accidents and damaging the ship. First of all you would need to alert the crew and get them on their stations, then they need to start the procedures to do the manurers and all this do indeed take LOADS OF TIME.
@@Interdiction But if you don't know what the other vessel is doing it's hard to actually avoid a collision, that's why the vessel with the right of way is supposed to continue on course so the other vessel that has to give way has a predictable vessel to avoid. By the time they know the fishing vessel isn't making any course changes it's already too late.
PD126 Scottish registered vessel, crew are probably still celebrating new year.
The two skippers later met at a bar to discuss the collision, fell in love, and got married. And they lived happily ever after.
This is hysterical... The fishing vessel simply had to turn the wheel to avoid collision... The skipper and crew were below, Mr. Baatssen was either not looking, or not smart enough to know how to turn the wheel... It's really that simple. He had plenty of power... It's a joke to try and make an argument against the sailboat...lol
My guess is he fell asleep at the wheel.
Yes the sailboat was in the right. Luckily not Dead Right.
David Smith I’m a commercial fisherman and if that boat was towing gear it’s not as easy as just spinning the wheel with that net dragging behind the boat. Of course u can turn but u have to very slowly so u don’t cross the doors...the doors are what spread the net and if u cross those wires it’s a mess. That being said it if he was towing gear it’s up to the sailboat to get the hell out of the way of a working vessel. Maritime law..
Michael Littlefield - Dead Right was how we were taught when driving or riding motorcycles and it applies to boats. In other words it doesn't matter which vessel was in the right. What good would it do when you are dead? The sailboat should have gave way and been pissed off rather than be pissed off with damage also.
+highvelocity123 you’re actually wrong, the fishing vessel had right of way because he was dragging nets, it’s almost impossible to turn a vessel with 10 or 15 km on net behind it, the sailing boat however didn’t have right if way (under international law) and made the dumb decision to cut infront. Sucks for him because he will take far more damage than a steel hill in a fishing bkat
More to the point the sail boat seen him coming from a mile off why didn't he turn to avoid it knowing the fishing boat hadn't seen him
You apparently have never sailed one of these boats. They don’t turn as quickly as your Sunfish does, especially under full sail. And if the stand-on vessel alters course or speed, and a collision occurs, the give-way vessel operator can claim the damage was caused by the course change.
I was going under the Lions' Gate bridge out to sea from Burrard Inlet, and a Swedish tanker was on the way into the harbour. On Vancouver Traffic radio I hear the tanker announce "taking evasive action" in this narrow passage, and I'm in a 27 foot sailboat and RIGHT BESIDE the guy. A sailboat behind me was coming out IN THE MIDDLE of the passage, with no room left for the tanker. (i.e. you're supposed to bear to the side, sail UP for immediate maneur). I thought the tanker was going to go shopping in the big mall just off the Capilano River. Instead, being empty, he performed the most incredible maneuver I've ever seen a boat of ANY size do: he pivoted around the little boat with ZERO room for error. I guess decades of experience just save the asshat behind me........his life.
The fishing vessel was not fishing -- so it has no special rights, and as such is the Give-way vessel. Even if the sailing vessel was under power, which isn't clear, it was the Stand-on vessel in the Crossing Situation. Also, clearly the fishing vessel wasn't standing a proper watch. However, anytime vessels with the means to navigate collide, both are at fault to some degree. Even if you are the Stand-on vessel, and you can take action to avoid a collision, you must do so under Rule 17 (a, ii) (b).
International Regulations for Prevention of Collisions at Sea
Steering and Sailing Rules
RULE 16
Action by Give-way Vessel
Every vessel which is directed to keep out of the way of another
vessel shall, so far as possible, take early and substantial action to
keep well clear.
RULE 17
Action by Stand-on Vessel
(a) (i) Where one of two vessels is to keep out of the way the other
shall keep her course and speed.
(ii) The latter vessel may however take action to avoid collision
by her maneuver alone, as soon as it becomes apparent to her
that the vessel required to keep out of the way is not taking
appropriate action in compliance with these Rules.
(b) When, from any cause, the vessel required to keep her course
and speed finds herself so close that collision cannot be avoided by
the action of the give-way vessel alone, she shall take such action as
will best aid to avoid collision.
(c) A power-driven vessel which takes action in a crossing situation
in accordance with subparagraph (a)(ii) of this Rule to avoid collision
with another power-driven vessel shall, if the circumstances of the
case admit, not alter course to port for a vessel on her own port side.
(d) This Rule does not relieve the give-way vessel of her obligation
to keep out of the way.
Shouldn't pleasure vessel give the right of the way to commercial vessel ?
Now, to find a curb (to pull over to) and share insurance information.
I do hope criminal charges were brought against the captain of the motor vessel. No one on watch, no one at the helm of the motor vessel, That captain needs to be held accountable.
No one was clearly in the wheel house of the fishing boat.
+sam mich very typical..Fishermen and their vessels are a huge problem..They are almost always on autopilot
+Robert Goodnow Yep. Not just the boat, but the fishermen...
+sam mich It was the sailboats falt. The fishing boat was busy working and the sailing people were just cruising. They could of steered the sailboat and got out of the way. It was in a huge ocean.
+haywood jeblome The fishing boat was quite clearly NOT working, but making its way somewhere. The court decided that their utter carelessness was the primary cause, and concluded that they were 100 % liable. I think the court was better informed than just a video clip, for example people on the other ship, and all the witnesses!
+haywood jeblome -- It was NOT the sailboat's fault. The fishing boat was NOT in the process of fishing. Going to or from fishing grounds does not give a powered vessel right-of-way over a sailing vessel.
I would regard the fishing vessel as an enemy pirate and react accordingly when it hit. (fire and guns)
All vessels, regardless of who has the right of way, are required to take whatever measures necessary to avoid collisions.
GREAT ...But the sailboat, upon realizing the fishing boat was not giving way, probably would have matters much worse, by trying to cross the wind
NOW I know. I must be a sailor.
Because that's exactly how I blow my horn at idiots on the road.
Honking your horn in traffic is dumb and wont get you anywhere besides pissing off other drivers
@@hettekloosterman16 Oh, I don't do it in traffic. I blow the horn at idiots on the open road mostly. Traffic is for mind-numbed robots and people from Rio Linda.
Powered vessels are supposed to give way to sail, the only time the sailboat would have to give way to that boat was if it was actively engaging in fishing, which it wasn't.
Not true Harry. Read my comment re Stage 3 and 4 of the Doctrine of Stages recognized by the courts. When collision is unavoidable by the action of one vessel alone, then both vessels must take action, regardless of the degree to which it is hampered. The international rules do not recognize the concept of 'right of way'. You are either a stand on or give way vessel, if you are under way.
Regardless of who is to give way, why didn't this sailing vessel heave to when it became painfully obvious the powered vessel was not going to give way? It appears to me that the powered vessel was on auto pilot and the crew was not paying attention, perhaps asleep on an open ocean! You sailors truly are full of yourselves!
Colin Smith, It is still the responsibility of the powered vessel to avoid the sail, the sail ship had already passed and the powered vessel hit.
Also, this collision was completely avoidable by the crew of the fishing vessel who weren't paying attention.
Kingg213, it's not about sailors being full of themselves, it's the whole concept of how sailboats work, you can't just turn on a dime and expect to still have full power, you have to spend time adjusting the rigging to take advantage of the wind, make an emergency turn and they could very well loose momentum and be sitting right in the path of the fishing boat, better to keep going and hope the fishing crew are going to do the sensible thing and steer behind the bow.
forget the rules of who has to give way, the fisheman turned in a circular path directly toward the sailing vessel. period. His fault 100 percent. Duty of both is to avoid a collision period. exclamation point.
The boat with the camera should have made a hard starboard turn, then the collision wouldn't have happened.
As someone who's been 50 miles offshore around commercial fishing boats, I've learned that lots of the commercial fishermen don't give a shit about anyone else. I've seen them drive straight into groups of smaller boats and force the smaller boats to quickly get out of the way to avoid getting crushed
It's not always possible to steer a boat when it's towing gear.
@@Iazzaboyce yeah sometimes they have no choice to go right through us, but I've seen it happen a few times where the boat had all the lines/nets in
@@Iazzaboyce it isn't towing anything.
Chinese "fishing" vessels do this all the time, and they portray it as an accident, even if it happens 10 times in a single week. They don't like other fishing vessels competing with them.
It isn't a Chinese trawler and the sailing ship isn't a fishing vessel. 0/10.
@@MrDorbel the imbeciles probably mistook it for a fishing vessels anyways..
@@TheBinoyVudi Well, no one does this intentionally in UK waters because it's a legal offence and there will be fines and damages to pay.
I sailed busy inland waters for years in my 30 foot Tartan, and was constantly surprised by the number of fellow sail boat owners who had the mistaken idea that sail boats always had the so-called right of way over power, no matter when or where. Local charts clearly indicated specified shipping lanes, cross sound ferry routes, restricted military areas, etc. If I had a dollar for every time I saw a small sail boat (or power, for that matter), playing "chicken" with a 300 foot ferry, container ship, or tug with a barge in tow, I could have been sailing a Tartan 37!
As a tug boat captain, I can attest to that. I see people sailing close just to get a look at the tug...of course they tend to do that as we're approaching a narrow pass and they approach so that it looks as though they're trying to cross our path. Towing 8,000tons of gravel, we're not stopping very quick, and turning in narrow passages may not be an option.
I also find many people in open ocean don't use radar to ascertain CPA's well in advance. Had they (sailboat) done that (or had the capability) they can figure out CPA = 0 well in advance and taken action "well in advance" to ensure a proper CPA well before a risk of collision exists. A slight alteration to port 3 nm before the cpa could have opened it up to 5 cables or more. Broad daylight people. Lookout on sailboat can see fishing boat with a steady bearing closing range. Do something BEFORE its an issue.
2. Responsibility(a) Nothing in these Rules shall exonerate any vessel, or the owner, master or crew thereof, from the consequences of any neglect to comply with these Rules or of the neglect of any precaution which may be required by the ordinary practice of seamen, or by the special circumstances of the case (b) In construing and complying with these rules due regard shall be had to all dangers of navigation and collision and to any special circumstances, including the limitations of the vessels involved, which may make a departure from these rules necessary to avoid immediate danger
People forget this rule. Put aside your pride and avoid a situation before it exists. Rule of 60 works great. 1* gives you a alteration of 1 for every 60 units traveled. So if you alter course 1 mile in advance you then change your destination position by 200' (approx).
In the straight of georgia I can have 20 targets within 5 miles of me, if I can keep track of them, surely a sailboat can track one fishing boat.
I am NOT saying the sailing boat was at fault (maybe a little), just saying that prudent seamanship could have avoided the incident.
If your in a small sailboat yes your rigth but the Alexander von Humbolt is 200feet long (62m) and wigths 829 tonns, while the fisching vessel is have the size with more horsepower.
As they reported the sailing boat, due to the situation, had right of way. And the sailing vessel usually does (when the other is motorized) due to the simple fact that it is MUCH easier for the vessel with an engine to make way. Quite shocking and really hard to imagine, especially with as much time as they had (from commencement of horn, maybe even before), I would have enjoyed hearing what the officer in charge had to say from himself, explaining what was going on such that he did not make a very simple course correction.
Time spent sounding the horn could of been used to turn the tiller/wheel.
Probably one of the most avoidable collisions I've seen.
It's a SAIL BOAT, and if you actually watch the video, the sailboat WAS getting out of his way, only to have to trawler TURN into it's path.
I was Master in British Ships in the 1960's and 70's and the Rules of the Road were our bible,especially in narrow or congested waters.The man in charge of the bridge on the fishing vessel should have had his certificates withdrawn.He was probably listening to the radio or having a cup of coffee in the chartroom or was drunk!That he was oblivious to the AvH's whistle leads me to suspect the latter!And,by suddenly going astern he lost all steerage way.A hopeless case.I only hope that he is a better fisherman than he is a seaman
Squarerig - so a fishing vessel restricted in its ability to maneuver with 1000 feet of nets out. Has to move out of the way of the sailboat? US right of way goes to the fisherman.. i
@@Liveaboard12 - So true. Oh, wait ... he wasn't fishing.
I agree his papers should have been withdrawn. That was unconscionable. In my small sailboat, I would have born away while there was sea-room even tho I had the right of way. However, the sailing capt had a trainee crew and probably couldn't pull a quick maneuver.
If I had been Capt., me and that officer of the watch would have had a hard talk.
@@Liveaboard12 no it does not , he was not fishing
Nick Downie well than right of way goes to the sailboat
This collision should never have taken place! For the fishing vessel to have had no Officer on Watch, and to have ignored the repeated whistle blasts and radio calls is wholly unacceptable and the prosecution was right to have been brought.
Yea it's great to be in the right , and he was, absolutely. Sometimes being right isn't worth being dead right, though. See ditty below.
+Al LeBrun I think, you're wrong ! Her engines were hard astern when collision ! Hopfully !!
You can not do any large maneuvers fast on sail-ship that has square rigging and the sails up, that is why you have the rule of motorboats to give way in the first place. ZorbaTheDutch said in very informative answer 10 months ago:
The sailing ship is a former light vessel turned into a barque. It's 62 meters long and weighs 400 ton. It has three masts of which two are rigged square. Making a meaningful course change with a ship like that, a change that might have avoided the collision, is pretty much impossible, by the time it becomes clear the relatively easily maneuverable fishing boat isn't going to give way.
So yeah, all blame on the fishing boat here and people below here have no clue about the lack of maneuverability of a sailing ship like that one."
The rule for motorboats to give way for sailboats was made specially with the squared rigged boats in mind and is not because it is just a "tradition" like some seems to belive. Boat like that that take 20 - 100 men doing carfully coordinated adjustments to the sails to make a maneuver and this is something that takes minutes to do when all the men are ready at their post. You can not just fire up the engines and do any maneuverer you want on a sailboat like that while the sails are up............
Fishermen … not the first time.
They don't care about sailing vessels whatever their size…
Their lookout is perfunctory, they only care about their catch.
Guy most likely asleep on autopilot. They work hard and long hours....of course this is not excuse.
But for collision like this - you need two idiots on helm.
@@istra70 I know. But sometimes they're not even tired. A friend's yacht (50ft) was sunk as he was moored in the bay waiting for a lock to open when a fishing boat ran hard on them : boat was on autopilot while skipper and all 3 crew members where in the back having lines and nets ready … Broad summer daylight. No excuse.
@Peg Leg Who said it isn't true. Images speak for themselves !…
Of course it its true and it happens more than once every year. Not telling all fishermen are bad, some yachting sailors can be quite reckless or stupid, or both as often too.
The sea is a great teacher and the more inexperienced you are the more likely you may behave in a stupid way…
Very expensive too : insurance premium must have skyrocketed !…
Many people think a sailboat has ROW because it is a sailboat, WRONG. A fishing vessel in the act of fishing has ROW It is vessel not under command or restricted in its ability to maneuver that have ROW over fishing vessel fishing. If not fishing then it is a powerboat.
I know a sailing vessel has the right of way but to sit in the path of a steel boat coming at you is stupid.
Maybe the captain had a heart attack and the crew is asleep or they all died from carbon monoxide...
You never know.
"I have the right of way"
**Crash**
They are lucky the fishing boat tried to stop. It would have chopped their boat in half...
Why are people agreeing with this person? There's no way a large slow moving sailing vessel could have changed speed or course in time to avoid powered vessel a quarter its size and having probably twice its speed.
If the sailing vessel were to alter its course when it shouldn't, and then the trawler alters to the same course, you're still in danger of a collision. That's why the "rules of the road" exist, so everyone on the water knows what the other vessel should do. In addition, depending on the conditions of the day, altering to a particular course for a vessel under sail might not be an option. In this instance, the fishing vessel returning to port with no gear in tow was very clearly the give way vessel.
They woke up pretty fucking quick, there’s no excuse for that powered fishing vessel ramming a sailing vessel, no excuse other than they tried it and should be dealt with by authorities
I thought the video was interesting ... but the comments are hilarious!!! So many experts that don't have a clue!!! Typical maritime fools!! Argue about who has the right of way right up til the crash!! No one has "right of way". You are either the stand on vessel or the give way vessel ... BUT .. EVERY mariner shall take every action possible to avoid a collision or allision. The only action taken was full astern by the fishing vessel at the last minute. This is a total failure on the part of both captains. Classic "How not to do it" flic for both sail and power vessel operators!!
Totally agree, the seabed is full of boats "had the right of way"
Safety is always the ultimate goal of navigation at sea.
Thanks Bob. You’re the only one who has made the important point that if you are a priveleged vessel that doesn’t mean you can ‘stand-on’ until impact, and then claim you had some sort of right of way. At a specified point(where the action of the 'give way' vessel alone will not prevent a collision) BOTH vessels have a LEGAL RESPONSIBILITY to take action such that a collision is avoided. These amateurs with their ‘right of way’ thinking terrify me. No such right exists. The phrase should be struck from the language. Dennismins keeps repeating it, but it has no force in law. The Rules prescribe actions to be taken, firstly by the more manoeuvrable and least hampered vessel, and lastly by both vessels, to avoid a collision. I have had many yacht club and power squadron types visit the bridge under way and they all intone the same misconception. Eventually everybody gives way, everybody moves.
You can not simply do any large maneuvers fast on sail-ship that has square rigging and the sails up, that is why you have the rule of motorboats to give way in the first place. ZorbaTheDutch said in very informative answer 10 months ago:
The sailing ship is a former light vessel turned into a barque. It's 62 meters long and weighs 400 ton. It has three masts of which two are rigged square. Making a meaningful course change with a ship like that, a change that might have avoided the collision, is pretty much impossible, by the time it becomes clear the relatively easily maneuverable fishing boat isn't going to give way.
So yeah, all blame on the fishing boat here and people below here have no clue about the lack of maneuverability of a sailing ship like that one."
The rule for motorboats to give way for sailboats was made specially with the squared rigged boats in mind and is not because it is just a "tradition" like some seems to belive. Boat like that that take 20 - 100 men doing carfully coordinated adjustments to the sails to make a maneuver and this is something that takes minutes to do when all the men are ready at their post. You can not just fire up the engines and do any maneuverer you want on a sailboat like that while the sails are up.....
@@irvingwood It is a square rigged sailing ship , how long do you think it would take to make a course change enough to avoid the idiot on the fishing vessel. Anyway a court decided the fishing boat was guilty and no blame on the sailing vessel
Mounting cannons was practical way of preventing things like this from happening in the past.
Large sailing boat helmsman had the responsibility to luff up and avoid collision, even the they had right of way.
try it in a square rigger with all sails set
+dezent I see you know absolutely NOTHING about sailing, YOU DO NOT HAVE ANY POWER AND CAN NOT MOVE QUICKLY, CAN NOT TURN QUICKLY, CAN NOT REVERSE POWER TO COME TO A FULL STOP, YOU ARE AT THE TOTAL MERCY OF THE WIND!!! the fishing boat can do ALL OF THAT AND MORE!
It doesn't matter he is still required by the rules to do everything he can to try and he did not.
DIDN'T IS DROP THE SAILS, WHICH WOULD HAVE DONE NOTHING TO HELP!!! TAKE A SAILING CLASS, YOU WILL FIND OUT I AM RIGHT! P.S. I have my captains licence, WHERE IS YOURS?
I drive ships I have an unlimited tonnage license. Have had to take many sailing classes in my career. If you change speed or course CPA (closest point of approach) changes. That's a fact. You can sail closer or further away from the wind. He also has to have a radar so he can use the ARPA functions calculate courses that will result in safe passing. Or simply change course until you have significant bearing change. You are wrong. The sailing vessel DID have the ability to facilitate a safe passing. It was not impossible.
Brendan Kruse When was the last time you were at the helm of a sailing vessel? I take a 3 masted schooner out every other month, for 2 weeks.
Last month, you did nothing to discuss any of the points which I brought up rather you are discussing something else. Irrelevant, I teach nautical rules of the road am on boats every week and have worked in maritime law. The sailing vessel would NEVER be blameless in a court of law. I see it happen all the time. It might 90/10 or 80/20 etc but the rules are written so that if two vessels collide both vessels have ALWAYS have broken the rules and both will share some portion however small. The vessel could have maneuvered which would have changed the relative motion between the two ships thus avoiding collision.
Ok just my 2 cents but.......
Neither vessel looked to be restricted in their movements soooo......holding right of way was a dangerous mistake. As has been pointed out there could have been MANY reasons that the fishing vessel was holding course (heart attack, asleep etc etc). It would have been far safer and prudent for the sailing vessel to have altered course as soon as it became obvious both vessels were on a converging course and they had received no radio response. Assume they do not know you are there and act accordingly, especially with so many lives under your charge.
You can not do any large maneuvers fast on sail-ship that has square rigging and the sails up, that is why you have the rule of motorboats to give way in the first place. ZorbaTheDutch said in very informative answer 10 months ago:
The sailing ship is a former light vessel turned into a barque. It's 62 meters long and weighs 400 ton. It has three masts of which two are rigged square. Making a meaningful course change with a ship like that, a change that might have avoided the collision, is pretty much impossible, by the time it becomes clear the relatively easily maneuverable fishing boat isn't going to give way.
So yeah, all blame on the fishing boat here and people below here have no clue about the lack of maneuverability of a sailing ship like that one."
The rule for motorboats to give way for sailboats was made specially with the squared rigged boats in mind and is not because it is just a "tradition" like some seems to belive. Boat like that that take 20 - 100 men doing carfully coordinated adjustments to the sails to make a maneuver and this is something that takes minutes to do when all the men are ready at their post. You can not just fire up the engines and do any maneuverer you want on a sailboat like that while the sails are up........................
Rondo Cat I'm fully aware of that, I have crewed on the Australian full scale replica of The Endeavour which I'm pretty sure is just as big. Yes ships such as these are very restricted in their movements but Fact is as far as can be seen in the video NO course change was made at all.
So, that’s the reason boats got a horn. Took awhile to wake up n find reverse!!!!
And fuck thousands of dollars of gear, while the wankers on the energy bludger stood and watched, did nothing, the trawler was stand on
@@MichaelSmith-nd4rr gear stowed, not fishing- sailing ship was stand on.
You should have changed course when it was obvious he wasnt going to give way. No point being in the right and dead.
Please note b:iii
Rule 18
Responsibilities between vessels
. Except where Rules 9, 10 and 13 otherwise require:
(a). A power-driven vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:
(i). a vessel not under command;
(ii). a vessel restricted in her ability to manoeuvre;
(iii). a vessel engaged in fishing;
(iv). a sailing vessel.
(b). A sailing vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:
(i). a vessel not under command;
(ii). a vessel restricted in her ability to manoeuvre;
(iii). a vessel engaged in fishing.
(c). A vessel engaged in fishing when underway shall, so far as possible, keep out of the way of:
(i). a vessel not under command;
(ii). a vessel restricted in her ability to manoeuvre.
Too small ocean, that's why.
I think I'd give way rather than take a chance on being sunk.
You can not do any large maneuvers fast on sail-ship that has square rigging and the sails up, that is why you have the rule of motorboats to give way in the first place. ZorbaTheDutch said in very informative answer 10 months ago:
The sailing ship is a former light vessel turned into a barque. It's 62 meters long and weighs 400 ton. It has three masts of which two are rigged square. Making a meaningful course change with a ship like that, a change that might have avoided the collision, is pretty much impossible, by the time it becomes clear the relatively easily maneuverable fishing boat isn't going to give way.
So yeah, all blame on the fishing boat here and people below here have no clue about the lack of maneuverability of a sailing ship like that one."
The rule for motorboats to give way for sailboats was made specially with the squared rigged boats in mind and is not because it is just a "tradition" like some seems to belive. Boat like that that take 20 - 100 men doing carfully coordinated adjustments to the sails to make a maneuver and this is something that takes minutes to do when all the men are ready at their post. You can not just fire up the engines and do any maneuverer you want on a sailboat like that while the sails are up...........
@@semperfidelification There was nothing the sailboat could do in that short time. Large sailing vessels like that actually use the sails to change course, not the rudder. (the rudder can only make small adjustments to their course).
They're from Dutch fishing village Urk. Do I need to say more?
the time when the sea is not wide enough LOL
If a powered boat doesn't respond to radio/horn no matter who has right of way you take evasive action, to me that's just common sense!
having been a fishermen for 16 years fatigue was probably the fault here on the fishing vessels side however the sailing boat could have avoided a collision when it became apparent that the give way vessel was doing nothing ,, rule 17 collision regulations ..
Quite possible the guy fell asleep - especially if he was alone, but it takes 20 minutes (in ideal conditions - which to be fair these look like they were) for a square rigger to meaningfully alter course....it is possible but only if the danger is realised early enough - unfortunately modern vessels move fast enough that by the time it's clear they're not altering course it's pretty much too late. Remember being on a schooner and the watch officer was very excited about a trawler that could barely be seen on the horizon but *almost* on a constant bearing, they just wanted to come close to have a look at us and passed safely astern (not fishing) :-)!
"Evasive Action! Hard to Starboard Mr. Sulu!''
Good one 🤣
Who is right & who is wrong, you make an effort to avoid a collision regardless! None did so! 🙈👈🏿👈🏿👈🏿🤕
💯
One was a sailboat. One was a trawler. One is powdered by wind. One by diesel.
Stand on vessel is all very well but the first duty is to avoid a collision and Rule 17 deals with the action of the stand-on vessel, including the provision that the stand-on vessel may "take action to avoid collision by her manoeuvre alone as soon as it becomes apparent to her that the vessel required to keep out of the way is not taking appropriate action.
if she can
Really didn’t seem like much either captain could do. They both simply just ran out of room to maneuver.
I think that sailing vessel might have been there just to mess with the fishing vessel.
What?
Insurance scam
@@rrobertsnot5150 That doesn't make any sense!
@@rafthejaf8789 I meant to reply to moonshadow not yu
@@rrobertsnot5150 Don't worry.
You can see the exact moment when the captain throws it into reverse. Like 10 meters from collision. 5 Seconds earlier he would have stopped in time.
The captain of the fishing boat should be KEEL HAULED .
Whenever I meet a fishing boat when sailing offshore it seems to needlessly alters course to obstruct my progress. Many are a pain in the A!
Me too! And I meet them every week!
A fishing boat when fishing is navigating by what is under the surface not above, there are stone fields there are wracks there are oil installations .
You see a clear sea,they don,t
@@williammccoy7127you know size doesn't give a Peterbilt the right of way over a Volkswagen.... maritime Laws that are centuries old didn't come about from my schooner can trash your Hobie Cat......
Me I like my incendiaries and armor piercing rounds..... sea piracy comes in many forms and intended actions will result in intended defenses..... I will sink and burn those that willfully ignore the Laws of the Land or Waves..... I don't sail the waters of Eastern Africa or Madagascar but if were going to.... I wouldn't go unprepared....taking me will cost lives and when the "civilized" world recognizes the fact that all persons are not civilized.... then, Laws will prevail
Carry a flare gun and use it. You know what I mean.
@@williammccoy7127 nah! I sail in the mud of the Thames Estuary.No rocks no obstruction because with my draft I might hit them. I totally agree in some areas but I read the chart AND know what’s under my keel AND theirs! Also I am sick and tired of dodging unmarked/poorly marked lobster pots - I’ve often thought deploying a grappling iron and dragging the pots out of their 3m accurate GPS might teach them a lesson. I’ve had a cruiser and sailed offshore for 50 years so I know what I am sayIng!
It is surprising that no mention was made of the Alexander von Humbolt, when it realized the Andrea was not giving way, making any attempt to avoid the collision. As someone previously stated COLREG rule #17b. I agree that generally the sailing vessel is less maneuverable than the trawler, if the trawler does not have it's nets out. However, if the trawler had its nets out, it is even less maneuverable than the boat under sail and becomes the stand-on vessel. When I see a commercial fishing boat I always assume it is engaged in fishing, especially if it has it's poles out, and give way per COLREG 18 b iii, and take early and clear action to stay out of it's way.
Here is a good insight from Wikipedia: A commonly held misconception concerning the rules of marine navigation is that by following specific rules, a vessel can gain certain rights of way over other vessels. No vessel ever has "right of way" over other vessels. Rather, there can be a "give way" vessel and a "stand on" vessel, or there may be two give way vessels with no stand on vessel. A stand on vessel does not have any right of way over any give way vessel, and is not free to maneuver however it wishes, but is obliged to keep a constant course and speed (so as to help the give way vessel in determining a safe course). So standing on is an obligation, not a right, and is not a privilege. Furthermore, a stand on vessel may still be obliged (under Rule 2 and Rule 17) to give way itself, in particular when a situation has arisen where a collision can no longer be avoided by actions of the give way vessel alone.
Alright! Where’s the Captain of the fishing vessel? And...anyone seen the cabin bo....OH MY GAWD!🤭
All below decks eating noodles no doubt.
+Wordsmith Gobshite Drinking beer and playing cards.
The way to check if you will collide is to take a bearing, sound horn three times, take another bearing and if it's not changed you will collide so you best take action regardless of who has right of way.
That boat was being a Karen. "You can't tell me I can't continue in my lane. I have a right to be here..."
B.O.S.S. always has right of way if you're smart!(big oncoming steel ship)
The skipper of the fishing trawler was put before a UK Court and charged.
AT a hearing yesterday at Southampton Magistrates Court, the Officer of the Watch of a fishing vessel pleaded guilty to one safety charge brought under Section 58 of the Merchant Shipping Act 1995.
The crew member on watch :- Mr Jan Baarssen, 51, of Urk, Netherlands pleaded guilty for conduct endangering ships or persons. He was fined £1,700 plus costs of £6,435.
Those who say the sailing vessel should have turned are not living in the real world or have no knowledge of the capabilities of such a large sailing vessel. The sailing vessel could have turned slightly but may not have avoided the fishing trawler. It seems the fishing vessel returning to NL left a crew member on watch. So the bets are, he fell asleep.
The German three masted sailing training vessel The Alexander von Humboldt suffered structural damage the Andrea (trawler) suffered scratches to paint work
Sailors are the maritime version of cyclists. I know you know what I mean. Hmmmm?
sorry but if you ask any merchant seaman they will tell you fishing boats are a menace