Followed numerous guides and projects done using electrolysis. Acid is acid. They dissolve the rust and expose the bare metal and there can be some noticeble material lose if the rusting is severe. Electrolysis process works more by converting the oxides back in to iron partially. Low voltage low current will facilitate this convertion more. So electrolysis is prefered in restorative work if the damage is severe and material lose should be minimized. Hope this helped. If anyone need more info, do some digging. You will find a lot on the subject. Cheers.
Damn never really thought about coverting the oxides back to their metal. Chemically seems possible, but never knew electrolysis does this. Thanks for sharing this cool info.
@@heyjohnsmith yep! It’s different from normal electrolysis process even there’s some gas formation happening. That’s the reason it’s adviced to use low current and low voltage for long duration to allow newly reclaimed iron to be deposited firmly, otherwise it’ll form a crustly layer that would easily peel off. If you really need to get rid of all the crustyness electrolysis would not be a good way, but it will preserve your part. Cheers.!
You can also use graphite anodes instead of sacrificial metals and with low currents to keep them alive longer as well. And also it's recommended to use more soluble salts like sodium hydroxide or carbonate, to reduce the resistance of the water solution and improve electrolytic efficiency per kWh.....
@@MikeSmith-vb8ul you need the sacrificial iron in the anodes to move the oxygen in the rust to. It won’t just dissolve into the water, that would create an electrical imbalance. If something is reduced, something else must be oxidized.
Even CLEANING vinegar works great although slowly and less dangerous than other acids. With the added advantage of letting you check and control the process being much cleaner.
@@joewoodchuck3824 Yes also for tools with moving parts. Then WD40 in the joints and back to work. I rarely dissasemble a tool, no need. I want them to work, not to shine. No showoff XD. Good luck.
@@joewoodchuck3824 24 or 48 hs. Usually 24 hs is enough. In some cases there's left black oxide which is a good look for an old tool. A tiny bit of wax and that's all a good old tool needs if it is in working conditions.
The electrolysis process will clean as well as the acid, but it takes much more time, and relies on the proximity of the positive electrodes to the surface to be cleaned. Unlike acid, it is gentle on thin materials, and won’t remove engravings or other delicate details.
@@Jack_Sparrow17 As in a constant current welding power supply, such as used for stick or tig? I once built a salt water resistor for testing a Synchrowave 250 welder, and it was 5 gallons of water with salt dissolved in it to make it very conductive. Dumping thousands of watts of energy into it, resulted in 5 gallons of boiling water in just a few minutes. I’m wondering if your are setting your welder to 160 amps, but that is just the current limit, and not the actual current that flows. 160 amps times say 40 volts would be 6400 watts. That would boil the 30 litres in no time. What kind of objects were you cleaning? How much surface area were the iron electrodes?
In electrolysis, how much rust is removed depends on 2 factors - current and time. In acid, type of acid, concentration and time. One can control the amount of curren and time by electrolysis to get the same result as by acid.
Eeyup. When I'm doing work, I prefer to use low grade acid like kitchen strength vinegar. If I'm cleaning something that has heavy mineral deposits or I'm not super concerned about quality, I'll go 35% Muriatic acid and do a 50/50 mix of it with water. The acid does the job well, but it has to be done with caution because it can easily damage what you're trying to fix. Even the vinegar method can be problematic because what you're trying to fix can start to oxidize again. I restored some files with Vinegar and had to be careful/quick about it cause some started to rust. It was a pain, but the vinegar did the trick.
...and when the job is done you'll either have a couple gallons of polluted and highly corrosive waste liquid or a couple gallons of dirty water with some soda bicarb in it. You choose...
Yes, the acid is the preferred method according to the major power and refinery boiler operations people. I have been in the business of cleaning the iron / steel boiler insides for about 25 years, and it is the standard method. The more typical acid used is Citric Acid, or in nature, Lemon juice. The lemon juice is typically around 5% and the normal cleaning solutions are around 3.5% based a lot on costs involved when dealing with boiler volumes that can approach 100,000 gallons. As a reference, the process is called Citrisolv and is done on almost all boilers as a routine on a periodic basis. There are other methods, but they involve more difficult acids to work with. The amount of iron is controlled well if the citric method is used as it has an iron limit on how much it can hold. So it is pretty safe. And can be neutralized with great effect in small operations as you use with regular household ammonia. That process will leave you with a nice gun metal black/blue steel or iron that has the iron converted to a non-rusting type, similar to the look you get when you carbon season your parts. And you can still carbon season just as with your blasting methods without worry. Nothing but lemonade and a household cleaner would be needed. Great video techniques on your channel. I do enjoy the way you lay out all the parts to see what the items look like in exploded parts array. Very helpful to let us follow your methods. Keep up the great work.
Do you think Citric Acid would work on a rusting coil bed spring frame? I got an antique bed, but the coil spring that's attached to the bed frame is rusting; I think it's steel. Anyway, it's too large to actually submerge it, but your comment gave me hope that if I sprayed it I could begin to salvage it. Thank you for your time.
@@krystal1722 As AJ Restorations does, it sometimes is best to submerge. However, unless in an industrial setting, it is almost impossible to do so. For a spray on technique, I don't think you could get it done with citric acid, it is simply too mild and takes heat and time. For a spray technique, you also need something not so hazardous, as it may put the chemical, which ever one you choose, into fine droplets in the air. So many of the processes commonly used would be prohibitively dangerous in a home shop setting. I suggest you look online for a rust converter type system. Evaporust (www.evapo-rust.com/) may be your best and safest solution. It is proprietary chemistry as I can see from the MSDS sheet, but I believe it to be a phosphoric acid based system, with other binding chemistry added. Phosphoric acid is one of the acids in Coke, so a bit acid but not harmful in small quantities and incidental contact. Please note, when AJ did the treatment, how beautiful the iron finish was on the interior of the pan.. That is because the acid used converted the orange version of rust back to a black version of "rust" and it deposits back onto the iron as a hardened layer. This is the same process as with Phosphoric acid as well. So it doesn't always 'remove' the rust, although some of it does get removed and put into the liquid solution, some also goes back onto the metal it came from. AJ's methods are precise. They are very well suited to home environmental uses as they do not require heat. In the industrial side, and in typical chemistry fashion, higher temperatures speeds things up. But they are also more dangerous and difficult to control. In the chemistry texts you will find that time and temperature are often interchangeable so if cold, you will simply need more time, usually a LOT more time. But where we typically do things in a few hours, if cold it would take a few days. And at home that is an acceptable trade off.
@@AJRestoration I don't have the patience nor the skill set you posses, so I do what I can with the specialties I do know a bit about. Always glad to assist if I can...
My favorite is still white vinegar - dirt cheap, gentle, effective, won't ruin things if you forget about them for a day or two. Degrease thoroughly with something like acetone beforehand though.
Yes, however in circumstance where the rusting is severe, electrolysis acts to convert the oxidized material back to the original. So when you do this in bad cases you won't lose material from the the object in question.
Little detail that may have influenced your experiment .. this was an old skillet , skillets have old fat on their surface, and in the 'pores' of the metal , fat is non conductive , AND : Fat dissolves in acid , so the 'rust remover 'is also removing the fat that is a handicap for its opponent .. I would call this skillet an unlevel playing field that advantages the acid
While I agree, cleaning something through a dozen different processes before you even set up for electrolysis takes time a lot of people might not have.
Good comparison, thanks for the video. I have a few observations. During the 3 hours with acid the pan section you treated with electrolysis started to rust again because it was wet iron left in open air, it should be better to spray it with some oil to prevent this rusting. The acid treatment is much more aggressive (specially with hydrochloric acid compared to some weaker one such citric acid) that's why you had a smoother surface. This is ok for a bulky iron pan, but for thinner parts I prefer electrolysis to prevent damage to the part.
You are right, during the 3 hours with acid, the other part rust again, but I think it is not because of that, when the acid reacts whit the oxide, it gives off gases that rust again the frying pan. I think this, because it happens to me when I used vinegar.
well guys. rusting doesn't enough just in order of hours. also cleaning with correct acid doesn't produce gas that makes the other part rusting. the acid dissolves iron oxide forming iron salts and water. if you get another part rusting while cleaning with acid, then you chose the wrong acid which has oxidizing properties such as nitric or sulfuric acid. especially only vinegar (acetic acid). basically the product will be iron acetate and water, no gas.
The only problem with your choice of acid is that muriatic acid, which is the industrial name for impure hydrochloric acid, will continue to degrade iron and steel unless it is absolutely totally neutralized. Which generally involves an extended soak in a strong base. Hydrochloric acid is sometimes referred to as "fuming hydrochloric acid" and even the fumes can cause iron or steel to disintegrate by oxidizing the metal to dust.
Also, the best acid for cleaning ferrous metals is phosphoric acid. It is available in different concentrations specifically for the purposes of cleaning iron and steel. One concentration is sold under the name "Ospho", another strength is sold as brand name "metal conditioner". Generally stronger concentrations are use to create the "blued" finish on firearms. And most new steel is sold with a phosphate coating imparted to the metal by subjecting it to a phosphoric acid bath at the end of production.
@@davidhorsley1149 Indeed phosphoric acid is a better choice as hydrochloric acid does not only dissolve the rust but it is also able to dissolve the metal. Hydrochloric acid is often used to etch a metallic surface in order to roughen it up. The roughened metal surface may look nicer in this case as the rust was removed more thoroughly (by also dissolving some metal below) but it will form rust quicker again as the now rougher surface is larger than before and thus has a larger contact area to air/humidity. Therefore, washing with a strong base is not only needed to neutralize left over acid to stop further corrision, but also to "passivate" the surface, as a closed oxidic layer is formed in alkaline media, which shields the metal from humidity/water. This oxidic layer will consist of iron oxide (when the metal is iron) and funnily, rust is also iron oxide. Thus, it can be a foe or a friend :)
@@davidhorsley1149 comercial solutions for derusting also contain organic inhibitors to prevent / reduce the attack on the base material after the rust is removed.
I've heard hydrochloric acid actually prevents rust by making a layer of iron chloride I've also heard it will cause a metal to rust faster so I'm getting mixed messages here.
Electrolysis needs a bit more time but the nice thing is that there are no ill effects if there are mixed metals. The safest method i've found is using and submerging in molasses to remove and stabilize rust. However it is very time intensive.
As someone in maintenance in a galvanizing factory this could be effective but constantly having to filter this out would be a lot of work. Yes we have to use ferrokill to clean/filter the acid/schlum tanks but that needs to be cleaned every few days but after seeing the water here it looks like we would need to clean it out every few hours.
I like to do both. Using electrolysis with sodium carbonate as the electrolyte converts rust into black iron(iii) oxide. Sometimes electrolysis will miss some nooks and crannies that aren't in line-of-sight with the anode. I follow up with a quick bath in phosphoric acid that converts any remaining rust and flash-rust into iron phosphate. The iron phosphate coating is extraordinarily paintable, especially when used with an etch primer. Great video. It really demonstrates the chemical reactions that happen with both methods.
The FDA is a joke lol you should google the history of the FDA and learn about all the things they approved that turned out to be terrible in the future. Cataract removal being one of them
I really appreciate the succinct delivery of info I have not yet actually put paint to canvas. Ive been studying too much and it becomes more clear watching you put paint to canvas. Thank you
The good thing about electrolysis is that you reduce the iron in irox oxide/hydroxide back to the metal form, virtually whitout too much loss. When treating rusted iron with acid on the other hand only strips out the oxide/hydroxide just by making it water soluble and eventually exposing more fresh metal to corrosion. If performed with the correct voltage and a suitable electrolite as long the correct anode rod, electrolysis could be a good method.
I work in a factory that galvanizes wire. We use electrolysis in a heated 10% solution of sulfuric acid. We use 3-4V and around 200A. It deals with rust in a matter seconds. It's pretty nasty though.
@@kyotoguitar6463 No it's NOT. You obviously don't understand electricity. 200A is not any more dangerous than 200 Volts or even thousands of Volts are on their own (with low Amps). 3-4 V are FAR AWAY from being able to penetrate your skin resistance. So NEVER would those 200A flow through your body. For this you would need much higher voltage. Don't be scared by numbers. Instead UNDERSTAND the physics behind it. Voltage is like pressure (psi), while Ampere is like flow (gallons per minute). So if not enough pressure -> simply no flow. And if not enough flow -> simply no harm by high pressure. It's only BOTH TOGETHER that can kill you.
That’s a really small amount of Ohms (although I’m not sure what is considered normal since electrical science is the one type of science I have trouble learning about)
The active function of acid will always be the winner in this comparison. Although electrolysis alt a super low current will be better for delicate items although over a much longer span of time.
Just curious, doesn't the electrolysis method involve less material loss? Because I think the acid dissolved the rust, but electrolysis restores the metal....
Ive tried electrolysis method and it acually dissolves the material if its left for too long and all rust is removed but somehow it doesnt disapear from the metal after it dries it gets more rusty and that gets me confused!
@@am6610 are you coating your metal item in a protective oil after removing the rust? If not, your metal item is flash rusting. You want to do it asap after first getting the item cleaned
@@am6610 yep, this video isn't a fair comparison at all. After electrolysis, you have bare metal covered in water for 3 hours. Given a little time, bare iron is always going to have flash rust, no matter the method. If given 3 hours, the acid side didn't form flash rust, I'd be worried about how much acid is left on the surface.
All hail the UA-cam algorithm!!! 20 minutes into watching UA-cam and pow, Electrolysis vs Acid test! No idea how I got here, but now I know acid is the way to go for solid rust removal from a cast iron pot or skillet.
I haven't tried or needed to remove rust from cookware, but I use deoxidene for my rusted tools. But this is a very interesting and informative video. Thanks. 👍
My cousin pretty much did the electrolysis method for port infrastructure as a business. I guess there's no comparison because putting acid into the sea isn't really an option.
Man I love these kinds of videos! So interesting, even though it doesn't really apply to me whatsoever! 😄 If I did have one suggestion though is it would be a lot more satisfying if you cleaned off the whole pan with the most effective solution, which in this case was the acid. I think that would make for a great ending!
Thank you for this concise and clear demo, and for showing how easy muriatic acid can be to use when you know the correct procedure. Love the forest sounds in the background too.
This really wasn't done scientifically. You let the pan rust (looks like for a few hours) on the electrolysis side between the tests and it was clearly far worse than just after the electrolysis. The configuration you used also caused the acid's fumes to rise up onto the other side of the pan, accelerating the rusting. You also need to try varying the current used; it's essentially the same as concentration of acid. You could potentially be comparing two very different things by only testing one concentration of acid and one amount of current.
@@AJRestoration the problem is that the vapor of the hcl acid is highly corossive.. the part of the pan that was not covered in the acid (previously cleaned by the electrolysis) ironicyally rusted through the acid below..
Articles I've read on reconditioning cast iron cookware prescribe soaking the cookware in a lye solution for a minimum of 1 hour, followed by a soak in vinegar for no more than one hour to neutralise the lye.
Amazing. I usually use electrolysis myself. I've only tried using acid once, and the time I did, not only did the rust not come off, the pan grew to be six feet and tried to kill me. Maybe I should try it again?
Thanks. The electrolysis side looked good initially, but rusted in the 3 hours testing the acid. ... So visually hard to compare. Perhaps oiling the electrolysis side immediately after testing would have helped the final visual comparison.
The acid dissolved the soot and grease accumulated on the pan, something that electrolysis is not good at. Muriatic acid's fumes are dangerous, is better to use phosphatic acid, also sold at the pool section of your hardware store. Usually labeled rust remover.
Well, electrolysis is probably better than acid, for removing unwanted hair! 😁 Seriously, though, that's an excellent demonstration! I have an old 8" skillet that friends gave me, that needs restoring. I never tackled it, in all these years, because scouring it will take a long time-even with a wire brush chucked into a drill. But I never thought of muriatic acid. I may try this.
I think that I have 2 issues with the comparison. Firstly is the use of the additive, it really need to be something like caustic soda and secondly the supply needs to have much more current, voltage not so much. 3 amps at 5 volts would be more than sufficient and you would see a vast improvement. The electrolysis also converts the rust, so if you don't clean off excessive rust then you will end up with a poor result.
I have a 30 v 10 amp power supply Lol electrolysis go BRRRRRRR the thing blasts trough rust (and also makes vinegar+salt water solution boil if you're not careful
@@AJRestoration Let me second that request. I also have a small press, and although still fairly new, it is a cheap chinese model and as you go through one, I want to know what I can do to adapt what you find to make mine a better tool. Firstly, the pulleys are driving a bit too fast for me, and I am looking for different size pulleys for slower speed choices.
I usually use full strength muratinc acid, after removing excess rust with power or hand brush. Depending on the material and it's use, this will take 5 to 30 minutes, checking often on the process. When process is satisfactory, I'll soak it in baking soda and waters. To prevent rust flashing, I'll dry with heat gun and immediately coat with light oil or a good spray primer. Steel bolts, brackets ,just about anything.
Acid is faster, but more destructive to the metal (etching) and will etch at different rates across the surface. Electrolysis is better over all for retention of metal, it just takes longer.
Interesting. I like the simple setup. But I feel your comparison wasn't very effective. Maybe try having two iron bars or plates exposed to the elements over a length of time then carry out the comparison between electrolysis and acid simultaneously. That will be interesting to watch.
As a former chemist, the reaction between rust and an acid, let's say hydrochloric (muriatic, pool acid) is pretty straightforward. The acid reacts with the iron (III) oxide, to form iron (III) chloride and water. The hydrochloric acid will also react with the iron, but much slower than it will with the rust. It's a little messy, but it's easy and quick, depending on the concentration of the acid.
Moved into a house many years ago and found four cast iron pans on the porch all were rusted with baked in crud as luck would have it I worked at a place that machined cast iron and cleaned it using phosphoric acid and ultrasonics on a automated wash line so i put four ugly pans in the baskets at the beginning of the wash line and got four clean cast iron gray pans at the end that looked like new still have them today
I've restored the majority of my cast iron with electrolysis. In my opinion, the biggest benefit is that at the end of the electrolysis, all you have to dispose of is some sodium (bi)carbonate solution, which is completely harmless. At no point with electrolysis do you have to worry about burning yourself with any corrosive substances.
In industry, we use muriatic acid at around the same 3% level but it is also quite hot. I would not recommend muriatic in much higher concentrations than around 5%. PLEASE NOTE ,,,,, Muriatic acid, by definition as a liquid tops out at around 33% acid with the balance being water. Concentrations above that are actually a gas or vapor. So if normal as purchased muriatic acid is used, to get the 3% (actually 3.3%) that you probably want, 9 parts water to 1 part muriatic acid from the bottle it came in. As for muriatic being better or worse, and for vinegar being better or worse, it depends on what you call worse. Both muriatic acid and vinegar, or acetic acid, have fairly low boiling points. If you get your nose down close to it, obviously everyone knows what vinegar smells like. That is the acetic acid vapor coming off that you smell. And the vapor is a fairly high percent of aceitc acid as compared to what is in the liquid. This is more than doubly true with muriatic acid. The hydrochloric acid is VERY volatile and will litterally evaporate out of the normal as bought bottle if the lid is left off. If you want to ruin practically every iron/steel tool in your workshop, put that muriatic in the closed shop on a summer day with the lid slightly loose. The tools inside will be ruined within a week or so. One bad experience was enough for me. Acid is stored outside in a NON-closed area so if any does weather off, it is NOT on my tools.
@@AJRestoration I use one at work alot, you get a perfect uniform finish with it. 150 grit sand with like 60psi and it'll bust right through dirt/rust.
If you had cleaned off the spot before connecting the clip on the pan, it would have better conductivity for electrolysis and would have worked much more efficiently
I’ve used electrolysis for getting rust off of old engine blocks. Not sure if it’s better or worse but I use powdered lye and run the set up for 24 hours with a small water pump with a filter. By the end even the water jackets are nearly perfect.
Good to know, but you can try vinegar which is used for cleaning oven picture on the label in grocery stores. Longer you leave it the cleaner the rusted object.
Your leads were reversed for electrolysis. Electricity flows from positive to negative. For electrolysis to work you need to pull the rust from the part(positive) and deposit it the anode(negative). What you instead succeeded in doing was plating the pan in what ever material the "anode" is made of essentially playing over the rust instead of removing it.
Actually he was correct. Electrons have a negative charge. They move from negative to positive, and they do the work. Why aren't they marked as + if they have the charge? Because positive and negative were decided before electrons were known.
@@FindTheMasterpiece you know, I looked it up and you are absolutely right. I'm a big enough man to admit when I'm wrong. I must have confused plating and stripping and that is my bad.
You have no idea how to do electrolysis, bro. You should watch a couple UA-cam videos yourself. If you are claiming that electrolysis (when done correctly) doesn't strip down to 100% bare metal, then you are flat wrong.
Wayne is correct Kenny. This was a head to head comparison and each had 3 hours. I know more about electrolysis than what you think. If you want to be a salty grinch please go watch another channel's videos. It's not about speed, It's about efficiency.
You have made a terrible video (not about speed, but about efficiency, LOL) that unfairly promotes an environmentally harmful restoration process. But the people who restore in 3 hours will love you. Good bye!
Molasses dips are very good also and very ‘green’ with disposal. 9 parts water to 1 part molasses. Let it brew for a week then pop your rusty item in. Takes 1-2 weeks but it will remove everything off and will penetrate as well - for example rusty moving components. On removal flush with water and brush or high pressure washer then treat with phosphoric acid treatment like metal prep.
I used Brillo Pad’s and elbow grease been working on outside area’s and bottom last night one more good Scrubbing on outside and all coat whole pan with Crisco and bake it in the oven 400* for three hours Then let it cool on its own
The only issue I have with electrolysis is the occasion where I don't get a good electrical connection to the part, perhaps because of a high resistance connection through the rust. I have certainly had results from electrolysis as good as shown for the acid here, and I've had clear fails because my part didn't make a solid connection at the cathode.
Excellent video thanks. I note from other videos on this topic that the surface area of the anode is significant to the efficiency of electrolysis. Sheet rather than rod may give different results?
Acid works by eating away a layer of metal and it looks brighter, but thinner. If it's not cleaned properly after the acid wash, it may quicken the rust formation. Electrolysis works by reversing the rust to metal. This is also the property used in preventing rust using sacrificial anode. What do you think is better?
Yes, that is why I recommended neutralizing the solution while the rust water / acid is still there with the iron part in it. The ammonia neutralizes the acid one step at a time, leaving about 1/3 of the removed iron back onto the iron that was cleaned. The term is called passivation and it is the standard method on large equipment.
Thanks for the vid! This is probably the best result I have seen of Acid. But from many other videos, the acid usually also removes and pits the base metal, meaning it is then not the same thickness or shape after treatment. The electrolysis actually retains the base metal, converting the rust either back to base metal or a stable oxide that avoids material removal and also leaves a non oxidizing coating to protect against further rust. Your results seem quite good for acid, which kind of contradicts what I have seen in other videos. I’m wondering if maybe the grease that no doubt was used to seal the frying pan at some point maybe played a role in these results. If so, then it might be premature to assume these results are applicable to other derusting cases. It would be good to see this repeated with maybe some cold rolled and hot rolled bar, or maybe some other steel that never had mill scale on it too . Could make a number of videos from the different alternatives!
Should try the electrolysis again using sodium carbonate which is found in Arm and Hammer washing soda (works much better) and use at least 5 amps from an old school battery charger. Also give it a day or two and use more anode
Hey dunno if you've tried it, but take leaves from outside when they fall of tree, stick them in water and stick rusty item in water for a few weeks and it's all gone afterward :)
I'm sure there's more than one way to clean a skillet so you are correct. I clean old cast iron cookware for myself and two estate sale companies. This is my results with white vinegar cut 50% with water. (the only acid based product I've used) It attacks the rust and the pitted metal is I leave it on longer than 30 minutes. Three hours isn't enough to clean a skillet in a well built electrolysis tank. I understand it's the amperage and not the voltage that cleans in electrolysis. My amperage depends on the surface area of the pieces in my tank. For that reason I'll hang 3 or 4 pieces in at the same time. Currently it's producing 34.7 amps, I would leave that skillet in with the others 12 hours. Electrolysis is a line of sight type cleaning, electricity takes the path of least resistance so make sure they are basically unobstructed facing the anode. Just things to be mindful of incase you ever have an issue.
My Dad would remove rust with a product called Naval Jelly, which contained Formic acid, however, I don't recall it working as well as your demonstration of the acid bath.
Followed numerous guides and projects done using electrolysis.
Acid is acid. They dissolve the rust and expose the bare metal and there can be some noticeble material lose if the rusting is severe.
Electrolysis process works more by converting the oxides back in to iron partially. Low voltage low current will facilitate this convertion more. So electrolysis is prefered in restorative work if the damage is severe and material lose should be minimized.
Hope this helped. If anyone need more info, do some digging. You will find a lot on the subject. Cheers.
Damn never really thought about coverting the oxides back to their metal. Chemically seems possible, but never knew electrolysis does this. Thanks for sharing this cool info.
@@heyjohnsmith yep! It’s different from normal electrolysis process even there’s some gas formation happening.
That’s the reason it’s adviced to use low current and low voltage for long duration to allow newly reclaimed iron to be deposited firmly, otherwise it’ll form a crustly layer that would easily peel off.
If you really need to get rid of all the crustyness electrolysis would not be a good way, but it will preserve your part.
Cheers.!
You can also use graphite anodes instead of sacrificial metals and with low currents to keep them alive longer as well. And also it's recommended to use more soluble salts like sodium hydroxide or carbonate, to reduce the resistance of the water solution and improve electrolytic efficiency per kWh.....
@@MikeSmith-vb8ul you need the sacrificial iron in the anodes to move the oxygen in the rust to. It won’t just dissolve into the water, that would create an electrical imbalance. If something is reduced, something else must be oxidized.
@@MikeSmith-vb8ul I’ve never met a mike smith I could trust. Lol
Even CLEANING vinegar works great although slowly and less dangerous than other acids. With the added advantage of letting you check and control the process being much cleaner.
That’s what I use. Works great and is a lot safer.
For tools with moving parts as well? I'm thinking adjustable wrenches here. How much time for vinegar?
I'll try the acid with a ongoing project.
@@joewoodchuck3824 Yes also for tools with moving parts. Then WD40 in the joints and back to work. I rarely dissasemble a tool, no need. I want them to work, not to shine. No showoff XD. Good luck.
@@joewoodchuck3824 24 or 48 hs. Usually 24 hs is enough. In some cases there's left black oxide which is a good look for an old tool. A tiny bit of wax and that's all a good old tool needs if it is in working conditions.
The electrolysis process will clean as well as the acid, but it takes much more time, and relies on the proximity of the positive electrodes to the surface to be cleaned. Unlike acid, it is gentle on thin materials, and won’t remove engravings or other delicate details.
Electrolysis process is much faster, than acid. You need much more ampers. I usually use 160A.
@@Jack_Sparrow17 how do you know you are getting that amount of current flowing? What voltage? What area of electrode?
@@timothym2241 i use invertor for welding and big stainless steel pot for 30 liters.
@@Jack_Sparrow17 As in a constant current welding power supply, such as used for stick or tig? I once built a salt water resistor for testing a Synchrowave 250 welder, and it was 5 gallons of water with salt dissolved in it to make it very conductive. Dumping thousands of watts of energy into it, resulted in 5 gallons of boiling water in just a few minutes. I’m wondering if your are setting your welder to 160 amps, but that is just the current limit, and not the actual current that flows. 160 amps times say 40 volts would be 6400 watts. That would boil the 30 litres in no time. What kind of objects were you cleaning? How much surface area were the iron electrodes?
@@Jack_Sparrow17 don’t use stainless steel. You’ll be producing harmful pollutants.
In electrolysis, how much rust is removed depends on 2 factors - current and time. In acid, type of acid, concentration and time. One can control the amount of curren and time by electrolysis to get the same result as by acid.
Eeyup. When I'm doing work, I prefer to use low grade acid like kitchen strength vinegar. If I'm cleaning something that has heavy mineral deposits or I'm not super concerned about quality, I'll go 35% Muriatic acid and do a 50/50 mix of it with water. The acid does the job well, but it has to be done with caution because it can easily damage what you're trying to fix. Even the vinegar method can be problematic because what you're trying to fix can start to oxidize again.
I restored some files with Vinegar and had to be careful/quick about it cause some started to rust. It was a pain, but the vinegar did the trick.
...and when the job is done you'll either have a couple gallons of polluted and highly corrosive waste liquid or a couple gallons of dirty water with some soda bicarb in it. You choose...
@@dragonmeddler2152 criminally underrated comment ☝🏾
@@dragonmeddler2152 Fair point.
@@dragonmeddler2152 great insight!!
Yes, the acid is the preferred method according to the major power and refinery boiler operations people. I have been in the business of cleaning the iron / steel boiler insides for about 25 years, and it is the standard method. The more typical acid used is Citric Acid, or in nature, Lemon juice. The lemon juice is typically around 5% and the normal cleaning solutions are around 3.5% based a lot on costs involved when dealing with boiler volumes that can approach 100,000 gallons. As a reference, the process is called Citrisolv and is done on almost all boilers as a routine on a periodic basis. There are other methods, but they involve more difficult acids to work with.
The amount of iron is controlled well if the citric method is used as it has an iron limit on how much it can hold. So it is pretty safe. And can be neutralized with great effect in small operations as you use with regular household ammonia. That process will leave you with a nice gun metal black/blue steel or iron that has the iron converted to a non-rusting type, similar to the look you get when you carbon season your parts. And you can still carbon season just as with your blasting methods without worry. Nothing but lemonade and a household cleaner would be needed.
Great video techniques on your channel. I do enjoy the way you lay out all the parts to see what the items look like in exploded parts array. Very helpful to let us follow your methods. Keep up the great work.
Do you think Citric Acid would work on a rusting coil bed spring frame? I got an antique bed, but the coil spring that's attached to the bed frame is rusting; I think it's steel. Anyway, it's too large to actually submerge it, but your comment gave me hope that if I sprayed it I could begin to salvage it. Thank you for your time.
@@krystal1722 As AJ Restorations does, it sometimes is best to submerge. However, unless in an industrial setting, it is almost impossible to do so. For a spray on technique, I don't think you could get it done with citric acid, it is simply too mild and takes heat and time. For a spray technique, you also need something not so hazardous, as it may put the chemical, which ever one you choose, into fine droplets in the air. So many of the processes commonly used would be prohibitively dangerous in a home shop setting.
I suggest you look online for a rust converter type system. Evaporust (www.evapo-rust.com/) may be your best and safest solution. It is proprietary chemistry as I can see from the MSDS sheet, but I believe it to be a phosphoric acid based system, with other binding chemistry added. Phosphoric acid is one of the acids in Coke, so a bit acid but not harmful in small quantities and incidental contact.
Please note, when AJ did the treatment, how beautiful the iron finish was on the interior of the pan.. That is because the acid used converted the orange version of rust back to a black version of "rust" and it deposits back onto the iron as a hardened layer. This is the same process as with Phosphoric acid as well. So it doesn't always 'remove' the rust, although some of it does get removed and put into the liquid solution, some also goes back onto the metal it came from.
AJ's methods are precise. They are very well suited to home environmental uses as they do not require heat. In the industrial side, and in typical chemistry fashion, higher temperatures speeds things up. But they are also more dangerous and difficult to control. In the chemistry texts you will find that time and temperature are often interchangeable so if cold, you will simply need more time, usually a LOT more time. But where we typically do things in a few hours, if cold it would take a few days. And at home that is an acceptable trade off.
@@lpconserv6074 Thank you so much for your insightful response!
Thank you LP! Those are some in depth answers you got there. I appreciate it.
@@AJRestoration I don't have the patience nor the skill set you posses, so I do what I can with the specialties I do know a bit about. Always glad to assist if I can...
My favorite is still white vinegar - dirt cheap, gentle, effective, won't ruin things if you forget about them for a day or two. Degrease thoroughly with something like acetone beforehand though.
Yes, however in circumstance where the rusting is severe, electrolysis acts to convert the oxidized material back to the original. So when you do this in bad cases you won't lose material from the the object in question.
If we did cool stuff like this in school, I would actually remember what electrolysis is.
Little detail that may have influenced your experiment .. this was an old skillet , skillets have old fat on their surface, and in the 'pores' of the metal , fat is non conductive , AND : Fat dissolves in acid , so the 'rust remover 'is also removing the fat that is a handicap for its opponent .. I would call this skillet an unlevel playing field that advantages the acid
You might be correct. But it gives people a good idea on what to expect if they want to try and clean or restore something similar.
While I agree, cleaning something through a dozen different processes before you even set up for electrolysis takes time a lot of people might not have.
Good comparison, thanks for the video.
I have a few observations.
During the 3 hours with acid the pan section you treated with electrolysis started to rust again because it was wet iron left in open air, it should be better to spray it with some oil to prevent this rusting.
The acid treatment is much more aggressive (specially with hydrochloric acid compared to some weaker one such citric acid) that's why you had a smoother surface.
This is ok for a bulky iron pan, but for thinner parts I prefer electrolysis to prevent damage to the part.
You are right, during the 3 hours with acid, the other part rust again, but I think it is not because of that, when the acid reacts whit the oxide, it gives off gases
that rust again the frying pan. I think this, because it happens to me when I used vinegar.
well guys. rusting doesn't enough just in order of hours.
also cleaning with correct acid doesn't produce gas that makes the other part rusting. the acid dissolves iron oxide forming iron salts and water. if you get another part rusting while cleaning with acid, then you chose the wrong acid which has oxidizing properties such as nitric or sulfuric acid.
especially only vinegar (acetic acid). basically the product will be iron acetate and water, no gas.
@@faizalaziz4796 Stay in school son. Go lookup flash rusting. And check off-gasing while you're at it.
yes, this is why i was like: this video didn't prove anything at the end
The gas you guys are thinking about should not really be anything other than Oxygen or Hydrogen
I used a pickle barrel and angle iron to remove rust from engine blocks and cylinder heads with electrolysis. Took a few days but it worked well.
The only problem with your choice of acid is that muriatic acid, which is the industrial name for impure hydrochloric acid, will continue to degrade iron and steel unless it is absolutely totally neutralized. Which generally involves an extended soak in a strong base. Hydrochloric acid is sometimes referred to as "fuming hydrochloric acid" and even the fumes can cause iron or steel to disintegrate by oxidizing the metal to dust.
Also, the best acid for cleaning ferrous metals is phosphoric acid. It is available in different concentrations specifically for the purposes of cleaning iron and steel. One concentration is sold under the name "Ospho", another strength is sold as brand name "metal conditioner". Generally stronger concentrations are use to create the "blued" finish on firearms. And most new steel is sold with a phosphate coating imparted to the metal by subjecting it to a phosphoric acid bath at the end of production.
@@davidhorsley1149 Indeed phosphoric acid is a better choice as hydrochloric acid does not only dissolve the rust but it is also able to dissolve the metal. Hydrochloric acid is often used to etch a metallic surface in order to roughen it up. The roughened metal surface may look nicer in this case as the rust was removed more thoroughly (by also dissolving some metal below) but it will form rust quicker again as the now rougher surface is larger than before and thus has a larger contact area to air/humidity. Therefore, washing with a strong base is not only needed to neutralize left over acid to stop further corrision, but also to "passivate" the surface, as a closed oxidic layer is formed in alkaline media, which shields the metal from humidity/water. This oxidic layer will consist of iron oxide (when the metal is iron) and funnily, rust is also iron oxide. Thus, it can be a foe or a friend :)
@@davidhorsley1149 comercial solutions for derusting also contain organic inhibitors to prevent / reduce the attack on the base material after the rust is removed.
I've heard hydrochloric acid actually prevents rust by making a layer of iron chloride I've also heard it will cause a metal to rust faster so I'm getting mixed messages here.
Electrolysis needs a bit more time but the nice thing is that there are no ill effects if there are mixed metals. The safest method i've found is using and submerging in molasses to remove and stabilize rust. However it is very time intensive.
As someone in maintenance in a galvanizing factory this could be effective but constantly having to filter this out would be a lot of work. Yes we have to use ferrokill to clean/filter the acid/schlum tanks but that needs to be cleaned every few days but after seeing the water here it looks like we would need to clean it out every few hours.
I like to do both. Using electrolysis with sodium carbonate as the electrolyte converts rust into black iron(iii) oxide. Sometimes electrolysis will miss some nooks and crannies that aren't in line-of-sight with the anode. I follow up with a quick bath in phosphoric acid that converts any remaining rust and flash-rust into iron phosphate. The iron phosphate coating is extraordinarily paintable, especially when used with an etch primer.
Great video. It really demonstrates the chemical reactions that happen with both methods.
Just for reference, from within the food industry, the only FDA approved way to remove rust in any form is a mild muriatic acid.
Noted, Ill have to give it a try.
The FDA is a joke lol you should google the history of the FDA and learn about all the things they approved that turned out to be terrible in the future. Cataract removal being one of them
@@DTB3378 Very few institutions exclusively make good decisions.
@@krashd No one was arguing that, but the amount of times they’ve been wrong is staggering and makes referencing anything they approve a running joke.
@@extractedentertainment8213 didnt the FDA also say that cigarettes are healthy for you and fat not sugar gives you hear diseases? They are evil
I really appreciate the succinct delivery of info I have not yet actually put paint to canvas. Ive been studying too much and it becomes more clear watching you put paint to canvas. Thank you
The good thing about electrolysis is that you reduce the iron in irox oxide/hydroxide back to the metal form, virtually whitout too much loss. When treating rusted iron with acid on the other hand only strips out the oxide/hydroxide just by making it water soluble and eventually exposing more fresh metal to corrosion. If performed with the correct voltage and a suitable electrolite as long the correct anode rod, electrolysis could be a good method.
I work in a factory that galvanizes wire. We use electrolysis in a heated 10% solution of sulfuric acid. We use 3-4V and around 200A.
It deals with rust in a matter seconds. It's pretty nasty though.
200A is pretty dangerous
"Don't try at home" stuff, children
@@kyotoguitar6463 No it's NOT. You obviously don't understand electricity. 200A is not any more dangerous than 200 Volts or even thousands of Volts are on their own (with low Amps). 3-4 V are FAR AWAY from being able to penetrate your skin resistance. So NEVER would those 200A flow through your body. For this you would need much higher voltage. Don't be scared by numbers. Instead UNDERSTAND the physics behind it. Voltage is like pressure (psi), while Ampere is like flow (gallons per minute). So if not enough pressure -> simply no flow. And if not enough flow -> simply no harm by high pressure. It's only BOTH TOGETHER that can kill you.
@@falco447 damn pretty aggressive but im learning current electricity rn and that was a pretty amazing analogy, ty fam
That’s a really small amount of Ohms (although I’m not sure what is considered normal since electrical science is the one type of science I have trouble learning about)
@@poodle5421 Might have to do with where I am from. I lived in the US but pretty quickly forget to temper my German directness.
The active function of acid will always be the winner in this comparison. Although electrolysis alt a super low current will be better for delicate items although over a much longer span of time.
I love your videos.. So satisfying to watch when things are restored and look brand new. So relaxing to watch. Thanks so much for sharing your craft.
Just curious, doesn't the electrolysis method involve less material loss? Because I think the acid dissolved the rust, but electrolysis restores the metal....
Ive tried electrolysis method and it acually dissolves the material if its left for too long and all rust is removed but somehow it doesnt disapear from the metal after it dries it gets more rusty and that gets me confused!
@@am6610 are you coating your metal item in a protective oil after removing the rust? If not, your metal item is flash rusting. You want to do it asap after first getting the item cleaned
@@DedodTwo Oh snap i missed this step! I will def do it next time and see the result, Thanks for the tip!
@@am6610 yep, this video isn't a fair comparison at all. After electrolysis, you have bare metal covered in water for 3 hours. Given a little time, bare iron is always going to have flash rust, no matter the method. If given 3 hours, the acid side didn't form flash rust, I'd be worried about how much acid is left on the surface.
@@am6610 let us know how your metal turns out this time :)
All hail the UA-cam algorithm!!! 20 minutes into watching UA-cam and pow, Electrolysis vs Acid test! No idea how I got here, but now I know acid is the way to go for solid rust removal from a cast iron pot or skillet.
I haven't tried or needed to remove rust from cookware, but I use deoxidene for my rusted tools. But this is a very interesting and informative video. Thanks. 👍
Quality content. No BS. Straight to the point.
My cousin pretty much did the electrolysis method for port infrastructure as a business.
I guess there's no comparison because putting acid into the sea isn't really an option.
I use lard , heat & elbow grease... works really well.
Man I love these kinds of videos! So interesting, even though it doesn't really apply to me whatsoever! 😄
If I did have one suggestion though is it would be a lot more satisfying if you cleaned off the whole pan with the most effective solution, which in this case was the acid. I think that would make for a great ending!
Nice test. I really thought that with all the gunk you see after doing electrolysis that it would have been better. Thank you for doing this.
Great point!
Thank you for this concise and clear demo, and for showing how easy muriatic acid can be to use when you know the correct procedure. Love the forest sounds in the background too.
Love the hadeda calls in the background sound. Makes me a little homesick...
They are almost in all of my videos.
This really wasn't done scientifically. You let the pan rust (looks like for a few hours) on the electrolysis side between the tests and it was clearly far worse than just after the electrolysis. The configuration you used also caused the acid's fumes to rise up onto the other side of the pan, accelerating the rusting. You also need to try varying the current used; it's essentially the same as concentration of acid. You could potentially be comparing two very different things by only testing one concentration of acid and one amount of current.
This wasn't done scientifically, it was just a comparison. ;-)
@@AJRestoration He is saying it was an unfair comparison.
@@AJRestoration the problem is that the vapor of the hcl acid is highly corossive.. the part of the pan that was not covered in the acid (previously cleaned by the electrolysis) ironicyally rusted through the acid below..
Perhaps you could make a better video 🤷
@@AJRestoration point is, it was a bad comparison.
Articles I've read on reconditioning cast iron cookware prescribe soaking the cookware in a lye solution for a minimum of 1 hour, followed by a soak in vinegar for no more than one hour to neutralise the lye.
Thank you for the test 👍👍
Don't know how it got recommended but definitely a great video to the point.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Amazing. I usually use electrolysis myself. I've only tried using acid once, and the time I did, not only did the rust not come off, the pan grew to be six feet and tried to kill me. Maybe I should try it again?
Try shrooms, the pan may still grow but won't try to kill you.
Thanks. The electrolysis side looked good initially, but rusted in the 3 hours testing the acid. ... So visually hard to compare. Perhaps oiling the electrolysis side immediately after testing would have helped the final visual comparison.
The acid dissolved the soot and grease accumulated on the pan, something that electrolysis is not good at. Muriatic acid's fumes are dangerous, is better to use phosphatic acid, also sold at the pool section of your hardware store. Usually labeled rust remover.
It doesn't really give off any fumes in such a low concentration, but worth having in mind when mixing it.
Well, electrolysis is probably better than acid, for removing unwanted hair! 😁
Seriously, though, that's an excellent demonstration! I have an old 8" skillet that friends gave me, that needs restoring. I never tackled it, in all these years, because scouring it will take a long time-even with a wire brush chucked into a drill. But I never thought of muriatic acid. I may try this.
I think that I have 2 issues with the comparison. Firstly is the use of the additive, it really need to be something like caustic soda and secondly the supply needs to have much more current, voltage not so much. 3 amps at 5 volts would be more than sufficient and you would see a vast improvement. The electrolysis also converts the rust, so if you don't clean off excessive rust then you will end up with a poor result.
I use a car USB adapter, takes longer but is far more gentle on the item being worked.
depends on what you want the final outcome to be.
I have a 30 v 10 amp power supply
Lol electrolysis go BRRRRRRR
the thing blasts trough rust (and also makes vinegar+salt water solution boil if you're not careful
Good video. Can you please make a detailed video using the list of acids you mention, for home purpose.
Not being shown the fully cleaned pan at the end leaves me feeling unsatisfied and somewhat ill at ease.
ua-cam.com/video/c09teX0bzYY/v-deo.html
I was waiting for him to slide his finger on the middle part. Glad he did.
Awesome and very interesting comparasant.
Can you please do a drill press restauration some time?
I have a drill press that I bought for restoration, my shop is a little small for it. Waiting till I upgrade the workshop.
@@AJRestoration Let me second that request. I also have a small press, and although still fairly new, it is a cheap chinese model and as you go through one, I want to know what I can do to adapt what you find to make mine a better tool. Firstly, the pulleys are driving a bit too fast for me, and I am looking for different size pulleys for slower speed choices.
I usually use full strength muratinc acid, after removing excess rust with power or hand brush. Depending on the material and it's use, this will take 5 to 30 minutes, checking often on the process. When process is satisfactory, I'll soak it in baking soda and waters. To prevent rust flashing, I'll dry with heat gun and immediately coat with light oil or a good spray primer. Steel bolts, brackets ,just about anything.
Acid is faster, but more destructive to the metal (etching) and will etch at different rates across the surface.
Electrolysis is better over all for retention of metal, it just takes longer.
bonus points; these techniques aren't even exclusive...
just use a carbon based conductor to put under the (acidic) water
Yes, I Already did this before.
Interesting. I like the simple setup. But I feel your comparison wasn't very effective. Maybe try having two iron bars or plates exposed to the elements over a length of time then carry out the comparison between electrolysis and acid simultaneously. That will be interesting to watch.
Even better
As a former chemist, the reaction between rust and an acid, let's say hydrochloric (muriatic, pool acid) is pretty straightforward. The acid reacts with the iron (III) oxide, to form iron (III) chloride and water. The hydrochloric acid will also react with the iron, but much slower than it will with the rust. It's a little messy, but it's easy and quick, depending on the concentration of the acid.
Thank you for the informative comment.
Acid always has a chance of eating more than just the rust though and can present minor damage to the object.
too much of anything is bad.
it important to use time to control the reactions.
@@darkshadowsx5949 Exactly.
Moved into a house many years ago and found four cast iron pans on the porch all were rusted with baked in crud as luck would have it I worked at a place that machined cast iron and cleaned it using phosphoric acid and ultrasonics on a automated wash line so i put four ugly pans in the baskets at the beginning of the wash line and got four clean cast iron gray pans at the end that looked like new still have them today
What about acid and electrolysis? It would be an inverse anodizing (I know, anodizing is for aluminum and titanium, but the process is comparable)
I've restored the majority of my cast iron with electrolysis. In my opinion, the biggest benefit is that at the end of the electrolysis, all you have to dispose of is some sodium (bi)carbonate solution, which is completely harmless. At no point with electrolysis do you have to worry about burning yourself with any corrosive substances.
What ratio of muriatic acid to water did you use for your test? What was the strength of the muriatic acid you were using?
It was a lot. That’s for sure.
In industry, we use muriatic acid at around the same 3% level but it is also quite hot. I would not recommend muriatic in much higher concentrations than around 5%. PLEASE NOTE ,,,,, Muriatic acid, by definition as a liquid tops out at around 33% acid with the balance being water. Concentrations above that are actually a gas or vapor. So if normal as purchased muriatic acid is used, to get the 3% (actually 3.3%) that you probably want, 9 parts water to 1 part muriatic acid from the bottle it came in.
As for muriatic being better or worse, and for vinegar being better or worse, it depends on what you call worse. Both muriatic acid and vinegar, or acetic acid, have fairly low boiling points. If you get your nose down close to it, obviously everyone knows what vinegar smells like. That is the acetic acid vapor coming off that you smell. And the vapor is a fairly high percent of aceitc acid as compared to what is in the liquid. This is more than doubly true with muriatic acid. The hydrochloric acid is VERY volatile and will litterally evaporate out of the normal as bought bottle if the lid is left off.
If you want to ruin practically every iron/steel tool in your workshop, put that muriatic in the closed shop on a summer day with the lid slightly loose. The tools inside will be ruined within a week or so. One bad experience was enough for me. Acid is stored outside in a NON-closed area so if any does weather off, it is NOT on my tools.
I would invest in a vapor blast setup for my workshop if I did this as a major hobby. It'd work great for larger items like this.
I do have plans to get my hands on a vapour blaster.
@@AJRestoration I use one at work alot, you get a perfect uniform finish with it. 150 grit sand with like 60psi and it'll bust right through dirt/rust.
If you had cleaned off the spot before connecting the clip on the pan, it would have better conductivity for electrolysis and would have worked much more efficiently
Not to mention unless he coated it, the electrolysized side would have started rusting again as soon as he took it out.
I’ve used electrolysis for getting rust off of old engine blocks. Not sure if it’s better or worse but I use powdered lye and run the set up for 24 hours with a small water pump with a filter. By the end even the water jackets are nearly perfect.
Well I think LSD is still better than electrolysis at removing rust
I love how quiet videos like these are
muriatic acid is so much strong.
Good to know, but you can try vinegar which is used for cleaning oven picture on the label in grocery stores. Longer you leave it the cleaner the rusted object.
Your leads were reversed for electrolysis. Electricity flows from positive to negative. For electrolysis to work you need to pull the rust from the part(positive) and deposit it the anode(negative). What you instead succeeded in doing was plating the pan in what ever material the "anode" is made of essentially playing over the rust instead of removing it.
Actually he was correct. Electrons have a negative charge. They move from negative to positive, and they do the work.
Why aren't they marked as + if they have the charge? Because positive and negative were decided before electrons were known.
@@FindTheMasterpiece you know, I looked it up and you are absolutely right. I'm a big enough man to admit when I'm wrong. I must have confused plating and stripping and that is my bad.
Thank you, I made double sure the leads are correct.
There’s conventional and electron theory. You both get half credit⚡️
Try EDTA disodium salt. It dissolves rust without touching the base metal.
It's unfair to compare them when the electrolysis side flash rusted, while the acid side was fresh out of the bucket.
And here I was looking for another good use for my wire wheel. Maybe next time
You have no idea how to do electrolysis, bro. You should watch a couple UA-cam videos yourself. If you are claiming that electrolysis (when done correctly) doesn't strip down to 100% bare metal, then you are flat wrong.
@Wayne Flanigan So garbage. Proves nothing and promotes a less environmentally-option for no reason other than speed.
Wayne is correct Kenny. This was a head to head comparison and each had 3 hours. I know more about electrolysis than what you think. If you want to be a salty grinch please go watch another channel's videos. It's not about speed, It's about efficiency.
Thank you! 😁
You have made a terrible video (not about speed, but about efficiency, LOL) that unfairly promotes an environmentally harmful restoration process. But the people who restore in 3 hours will love you. Good bye!
Waow i really want you to continue clean it.
What’s the problem? Just leave it in the sink.
Molasses dips are very good also and very ‘green’ with disposal. 9 parts water to 1 part molasses. Let it brew for a week then pop your rusty item in. Takes 1-2 weeks but it will remove everything off and will penetrate as well - for example rusty moving components. On removal flush with water and brush or high pressure washer then treat with phosphoric acid treatment like metal prep.
Really found this interesting. 👍
I used Brillo Pad’s and elbow grease been working on outside area’s and bottom last night one more good Scrubbing on outside and all coat whole pan with Crisco and bake it in the oven 400* for three hours
Then let it cool on its own
The only issue I have with electrolysis is the occasion where I don't get a good electrical connection to the part, perhaps because of a high resistance connection through the rust. I have certainly had results from electrolysis as good as shown for the acid here, and I've had clear fails because my part didn't make a solid connection at the cathode.
Nice 👍 seen the full restoration it was brilliant.
Thank you buddy! 😁
No! Thank YOU for your time! Thumb up!
Much appreciated!
Excellent video thanks. I note from other videos on this topic that the surface area of the anode is significant to the efficiency of electrolysis. Sheet rather than rod may give different results?
Acid works by eating away a layer of metal and it looks brighter, but thinner. If it's not cleaned properly after the acid wash, it may quicken the rust formation. Electrolysis works by reversing the rust to metal. This is also the property used in preventing rust using sacrificial anode. What do you think is better?
Yes, that is why I recommended neutralizing the solution while the rust water / acid is still there with the iron part in it. The ammonia neutralizes the acid one step at a time, leaving about 1/3 of the removed iron back onto the iron that was cleaned. The term is called passivation and it is the standard method on large equipment.
Thanks for the comparison
This is some next level asmr
Thanks for the vid! This is probably the best result I have seen of Acid. But from many other videos, the acid usually also removes and pits the base metal, meaning it is then not the same thickness or shape after treatment. The electrolysis actually retains the base metal, converting the rust either back to base metal or a stable oxide that avoids material removal and also leaves a non oxidizing coating to protect against further rust. Your results seem quite good for acid, which kind of contradicts what I have seen in other videos. I’m wondering if maybe the grease that no doubt was used to seal the frying pan at some point maybe played a role in these results. If so, then it might be premature to assume these results are applicable to other derusting cases. It would be good to see this repeated with maybe some cold rolled and hot rolled bar, or maybe some other steel that never had mill scale on it too . Could make a number of videos from the different alternatives!
Should try the electrolysis again using sodium carbonate which is found in Arm and Hammer washing soda (works much better) and use at least 5 amps from an old school battery charger. Also give it a day or two and use more anode
Very clarifying
Rust is such a beautiful colour
Hey dunno if you've tried it, but take leaves from outside when they fall of tree, stick them in water and stick rusty item in water for a few weeks and it's all gone afterward :)
sandblasting will forever be the champion in my eyes
Wow huge difference
I use metal polishing paste. Works great on swords and knives..
That was so cool! Thank you for sharing that!
Good morning from Southeast South Dakota
"AJ Restorations has destroyed their Golden Frying Pan"
"AJ Restorations found: The Frying Pan"
I'm sure there's more than one way to clean a skillet so you are correct. I clean old cast iron cookware for myself and two estate sale companies. This is my results with white vinegar cut 50% with water. (the only acid based product I've used) It attacks the rust and the pitted metal is I leave it on longer than 30 minutes. Three hours isn't enough to clean a skillet in a well built electrolysis tank. I understand it's the amperage and not the voltage that cleans in electrolysis. My amperage depends on the surface area of the pieces in my tank. For that reason I'll hang 3 or 4 pieces in at the same time. Currently it's producing 34.7 amps, I would leave that skillet in with the others 12 hours. Electrolysis is a line of sight type cleaning, electricity takes the path of least resistance so make sure they are basically unobstructed facing the anode. Just things to be mindful of incase you ever have an issue.
Hi! Awesome comparison! Hey, what's the proportion between water and acid? And do you think it's not dangerous for cooking after a rinsing? 🌟🌟🌟🌟
I just eyeballed the acid mixture. No, its totally safe to use.
TF2's forbidden golden frying pan
Cool test. What is the relation between acid and water? I mean how many parts of acid and how many parts of water
Interesting and useful video! Thank you!
Very nice experiment.
Thanks.
Well structured and well presented, nice video mate
What will happen if you electrocute it under the acid? Will it be even more effective?
In fact would be nice if you have brushed everything after and compare how much material was been removed.
I loved this. Cheers
I will take laser any time to clean the rust. Winiger perhaps is my second choice.
My Dad would remove rust with a product called Naval Jelly, which contained Formic acid, however, I don't recall it working as well as your demonstration of the acid bath.
Inorganic acids works better on metal than organic acids, thats why