Grindr, Tribes and Sexual Preferences: Navigating the World of Dating and Hookups! | S1 E8
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- Опубліковано 2 тра 2023
- This week we discuss labels and tribes in the gay community, preferences or prejudices, and navigating the world of dating and hookups.
#gay #gaycouple #podcast
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‘Everyone can have their preferences but remember to talk to people like human beings’.
Gold.
This topic alone deserves a nationwide speaking tour
Not really
🤣🤣🤣
I doubt anything would change other accusations of grooming being thrown at the campaigners or mild amusement every now and then.
Guys thank you for doing this! I am a 59 yr old Gay Man who came out in 1985. None of this exposure that social media has given the Gay community was imaginable. I have never followed a Pod Cast but I am liking what your doing and I think the topics are spot on!
I was treated really well by everyone at work until they heard whispers that I might be gay (I never hid it, but no one asked and I don't declare it everywhere I go). When they asked me I confirmed but would have preferred people not asking - why do they need to know?
When I was 'out' it was split, half of the people were still warm and half were actively cold and also a few 'straight' men would say some really inappropriate things to me, indicating that I like it up the behind, etc. and they would 'go there' because a 'hole's a hole' - they basically reduced me down to my sexuality and never took me seriously again, that's why I don't like being 'out'.
Gee sounds like a toxic workplace - I’m out and I don’t think it is an issue with anyone - quite a few people talk about it a lot more than me - a lot of curiousity about my struggles
@@MJ-qb5ph Yeah I've worked in smaller companies and it's been really good. My career choice means that I'm around a lot of very straight corporate people with fragile egos, their way of connecting with the 'gay guy' is to consistently neg in the name of jokes. I can genuinely find the humor in some of the negging but it can get to a point where you ask 'is my sexuality literally all they think about when they see me?' it sure seems that way a lot of the time
@@MJ-qb5ph sounds like you've got a decent work place, curiosity can be a good way to dispel any negative stereotypes :)
This. Fucking this.
I have had direct employees ask me unprovoked if I am gay while on the job. I don’t overtly come off fem so those who don’t know, wouldn’t assume I’m gay. However; after a few years of working for a company as a single, handsome male. The rumor mill gets people interested. I know intentions aren’t always foul but the fact that it degrades you to archetype is sickening. Especially in the Christian American heteronormative work culture I work in.
@@Harry-fk5ofHaving been a corporate CIO in the past I can confirm that toxic environment is very real. I had to hide my sexuality for years, I saw what happened to those that tried to come out. When I did come out, I took a very active response to their jokes, I took a leaf out of Bianca del Rio’s book, and made what was and wasn’t my preferences clear.
I’m lucky I suppose I had a great experience coming out, though you never finish coming out, once people got used to the idea, and I answered loads of questions initially which helped people. The fact I took the odd joke just as a direct question soon put a stop to that.
What’s so ridiculous is that I know so many of the men throwing the ‘gay jokes, or backs against the wall jokes’ I’ve met up with them individually and they are at least bi-curious.
Here’s one thing they all should have thought about, I was the CIO ffs I saw every flagged email, so gossiping behind my back didn’t last long.
Sorry that was a bit of a ramble, to sum up; be yourself (if you can in your industry) if it’s difficult just know their are definitely other gay men in your company in the same position. If you find each other it helps.
Couldn’t agree more. Grindr has ruined the gay scene and destroys many beautiful young people’s self concept.
Yeah, and I bet you check it hundreds of times per day.
@@john.premose its his right to comment.
@@marcathens2951 was that ever in dispute?
@@john.premoseMeaning your comment wasn't necessary . You want to be argumentive .
@@marcathens2951 my comment was 100% necessary. It pointed out the utter hypicrisy of the holier than thou condemners of grindr, who are on it themselves while they condemn others for doing the same.
Interesting subject guys…. For me, it’s all about personality, morals and like mindedness. Looks or attraction is secondary. Dicks, we all have one. Who cares about size. As long as you are a good human. How many guys out there remain single because no one can meet their shopping list of must have attributes. Yes the porn industry and grinder don’t represent the real world. My thing is, you do what makes you happy. If it doesn’t make you happy, change it. All the best from Melbourne Australia
Well said mate.
Back when I was 18-22 I worked for awhile as a model, and turned down so many jobs because I was unsure of what was normal sized for a man. I was that guy who didn’t parade my stuff around.
And that came from porn, I saw so many supposed 10” plus guys make claims about how better they were in bed etc. it influenced my life during those years.
Why I never just got a tape measure out I don’t know, but it never occurred to me back then.
I have to apologise for the fact that when I came out I was a grindr slut for awhile too, and that’s how I learned where I actually rank in terms of other men.
You may be bigger than you think, other guys look bigger when you look at them, it is however false perspective you could be bigger than them from their eyes.
I think people should not be labeled racists because they do not want to date a man from a certain race. People have preferences that should be respected.
Nah I’m gonna think they’re racist if they say they wouldn’t date someone from a certain race
There’s several studies on the impact that Grindr has on gay men’s mental health. It’s personally just not my vibe as I prefer organic connections vs obsessively scrolling on an app that’s the equivalent of a toxic virtual bathhouse. I’ve been called bougie by gay people in social situations all because I have zero interest in using apps like Grindr as a platform to connect with gay men platonically, romantically, or casually. I was with my ex-partner for 5 years after meeting at a mutual friend’s dinner gathering and have made gay platonic friends through joining local LGBT running clubs, so there’s definitely more healthy ways to connect in the LGBT community. I have absolutely no judgement on people who use Grindr, but I don’t see it as an environment that’s conducive to “meaningful” connections.
Toxic virtual bathhouse..... Wow you are so right 👍🏻
It's about the app itself. It's about yourself more than anything.
I’ve used grindr and may use it in the future, but you have to see it for what it is - a meat market.
I met my current hubbie out at a dinner party with friends, I love that fact just a random chance encounter. Though I lost his phone number and had to find him on grindr to ask him out, please don’t judge…
@@ForgeMasterXXLBut who's more at fault? The Dealer or the drug addict? Yes the addict is buying the drugs, but the dealer is too only to happy to accommodate them, even it kills them. Can you honestly say apps, sites, bathhouses, or clubs bear absolutely no responsibility at all for how people behave in them venues at all? Especially when they build them in such a way to manipulate peoples emotions to make money.
I may have missed it but I think one of the dynamics that goes along with gay sex and was made worse by the hook up apps is FOMO - the fear of missing out. Do you go with the guy who is currently showing interest and miss out on an even hotter guy who might be just around the corner/on the next scroll? The apps make it so easy to keep looking that we just dismiss lots of people who could be a really good match for us on the off chance that there’s someone even hotter….
That’s very true. Go to a venue with 10 men you might well connect, if there’s 100 they are looking over your shoulder for something better
I’d love to see an episode on money and finances in gay relationships. 👍 Many unique factors and dynamics in a same sex couple that I rarely hear talked about but it’s so important.
I have repeatedly tried to watch your videos
and even though I find you both very charming,
I feel like you urgently need expert guests.
Most subjects and discussions scratch the surface of the issues at hand.
Grindr, Tribes and Sexual Preferences are an indicators of deep psychological, social and emotional issues that gay men go through from a very young age: The deeply rooted structures of (sometimes sexual and/or emotional) abuse and manipulation.
It would forward your "cause" and podcast immensely if you had actual experts or opponents on your podcasts.
It would create more excitement, bring more information in and also speak to more people that just the two of you and others that have the same opinion about issues.
A different point of view is always important.
Please do not understand my comment as a negative criticism.
I really want the two of you to win!
Completely agree !
@@LawLight56 seems like they do exactly what they are criticizing!
I’m enjoying your podcast. Thank you for doing your part to normalize homosexuality.
If you really want more than just sex (I certainly want more), find a gay social group...there are lots of them. I belong to a group of older gay men (I'm 70)...we go out to dinners, bowling, plan trips to museums, etc. You may not find a boyfriend, but you will make lots of friends.
How do you go about finding them?
@jimtrue1465 what if I'm more of a masculine bisexual?
@@bishbosh4815What difference does that make? (sorry for classifying myself but…) I’m a tall, white, mostly very masculine (I like watching drag race, okay), muscular, beefy, well endowed, bisexual top/vers man. I’ve been very happily married to a woman and I’m about to marry a man. We can all be whatever we want.
As I mentioned mostly very masculine, I’ve even done drag myself and not just for a laugh I looked goooood girl, lol.
I did try and write this without classifying myself, but I am what I am, I’m proud of the things I’ve done to improve my body, the rest is just genetics and a large dose of random chance.
@@bishbosh4815What I would say about finding local groups is look in the obvious places, GP offices, local rag, councils advertise them. Or if you are in the digital age, they are very easy to find.
@raiiwa9960 for me I'm not into that stuff so I'm looking for more things that are more typically... not things that are purely gay or drag. Just "normal" stuff. Eating, drinking, movies, hiking, idk... Stuff that is more open to everyone. Not that the things you're into isn't open to everyone, I'm just not looking for that
I feel like each area of the LGBTQIA+ community has their own specific versions of being narrow minded or limiting. I'm Pan and I've heard either skepticism that Pan is even a thing or they are resentful on some level. If you are Bi or a lesbian, you have to be weary because the very nature of being attracted to someone's soul or personhood defies a lot of the defining things about Bi/lesbian branches. There might be sparks flying otherwise, but because of terms and labels and qualifications and politics thereof, there's a clear separation and judgement and almost disgust. It's something I think about a lot, something that keeps me on the fringe of the community, I think. Thank you for being open with your experiences, and for a good chat about it. 💗✨
Hookup culture ruined long-term dating. Gay or not
Especially when open relationships became a norm and so everyone could hook up with everybody the choice in apps broadened further.
no it didn't. They weren't dating or getting married well before grindr.
@@martonyomchale342 well 1) getting married wasn't legal.
2) consider the difference between an ideal partner you can construct in your mind from your local community compared to an ideal you can put together from an entire planet of men interested in men.
3) consider how much easier it is to dismiss people without reprisal or fear of having to deal with causing hurt feelings. Just block or ignore in a millisecond no harm done.
We weren't all monogamous by any stretch but this sudden increase of choice in physical beauty and personalities has totally transformed the gay dating arena.
Keep deluding yourself. A lot of us are offline and the online world doesn't represent society in REAL LIFE
And then being surprised they end up alone…
Wow lol You know when you say something and your phone or iPad suddenly has adds for it? I was cooking and frustrated with the same tired things I watch and then this popped up. Very refreshing to hear real talk on gay issues. Keep them coming! The accents are super bonus 😌
Love both your podcasts and vlogs guys. I only came out after 26 year being married to a woman who i loved with all my heart. I knew after she passed away i needed to live my true life so told my friends and family who have been very supportive. There is so much judgement in the community where it should be a safe place, but unfortunatley I'm 5' 8 and have only had good experiences at the moment wouldnt meet anyone judgemental or up their own arse. Live life guys and gals its.what they are as a person not what they look like. Love and luck to you both xxx❤
Thank you for making this talk! I truly enjoyed this one. So many great points!!!!
Bless the algorithm gods for sending me such a positive and interesting podcast, lived, commented multiple times, shared and subscribed.
Thanks guys.
Practicing the Golden Rule is at the heart of this conversation. Some of the posts on these apps are literally reminiscent of the "No Blacks, no colored," signs during the Jim Crow era. And I feel like we have convinced ourselves that because we are conveying a "preference," that we have normalized being jackasses in how we treat others or dismiss how being excluded solely due to one's skin color for example, especially when that refrain is repeated across profiles, can do a lot of harm to one's psyche. State your preference but there is no need to highlight immutable traits you don't like, or in some cases, also include why you don't like those immutable traits; which yes, will be called out as racism, prejudice, and hate. Plain and simple. It really isn't that difficult. Some people treat their preferences almost like it is an orientation. When instead, our "preferences" are oftentimes a product of the social conditioning, eurocentric beauty standards of the West, images, magazines, social media, porn, marketing, social narratives, etc. And it is about time we start being honest about that reality instead of convincing ourselves and others that being casually racist, hateful or plain jerks to others is all in the name of having a "preference."
A decade ago there were other online platforms not geared towards only sex. Whether because we're much more integrated now and don't need gay only spaces for socialising, or because we just don't want to use technology that takes longer to invest in, there are now to my knowledge no online spaces whatsoever that are not designed for finding sex. Even Facebook groups ostensibly for LGBT interests end up being a huge doomscroll of thirst traps. What we're doing really is reducing every kind of attraction to sex only, and being completely uninterested in anything that is not sexual.
This is why Grindr should not be taken seriously. And with no other viable online spaces, the real world is still there. You may need more patience, but it is much more satisfying to meet someone without an overt agenda or ticklist.
This is so ironic given what they both perpetuate and how their (already open) relationship started
What a wonderful podcast! And...this is a great topic. I have felt for many years that we gay men lead with our bodies and not our minds & hearts and ultimately that leads to loss. Nice to see two great credits to the gay community speak out on this. I am 6'-2" and 210 lbs and have had friends comment, "that it has been easy for you." You can get who ever you want. HUH? That is so sad. Life is a struggle, and to hamper and handicap each other with that kind of thinking is simple dumb and cruel.
I'm so happily married to a man much smaller (in height) than me, and in my eyes he is towering. Keep up the good work.
I think your friends are referring to pretty "privilege"
Its a real thing and its so easily obvious. Im tall and attractive and have been told the same things by friends and strangers alike. We gays are incredibly vain and superficial, generalizing of course. Maybe try to be a little more empathetic to your friends who say youve had it easy, you probably have. Ask them why they feel that way 💗💗
This is huge!!!! Dr. Healthy Homo is a journey we have to go through in order to come of age in our side of the world.🍇
It’s difficult to find someone that’s not shallow in the gay world. Grindr is definitely not a place to find someone to date, for effing yes, but nothing else.
I think as long as you view it as a meat market and you are happy to put your ‘meat’ on show then it serves a purpose.
We all sometimes need a good old f**k, what we don’t have to be are w**kers about it. For example I happen to like Asian men, so I get totally infuriated by the no ‘fat, femme & Asian’ the quotes are for Kim Chi, she rocked that song.
I’ve used it in the past, I use it every now and again with my hubbie to spice things up, and I will use it in the future.
Just for clarity I don’t just mean the one app, their are many that serve an identical purpose, sometimes in different niches but the basics are the same. Like for instance I like DaddyHunter, simply because I own the fact that I identify as a muscle daddy and as any hunter will say you go wherever the target goes.
I like the content of your podcasts (HHH). It refreshing to hear your comments that resemble some of my thought about gay life.
Excellent topic, glad to hear I'm not the only one thinking like this 😊
Great episode gentlemen. I enjoyed it❤❤❤
Love this intelligent debate ❤ another excellent discussion Gentlemen.
Love this conversation...
Absolutely loved this episode. You voiced many of my own thoughts about dating and the dating apps. I was same-sex married for 30 years. I met my ex through friends, not apps (no internet then) and we got to know each other through interacting in person. We got to know each other as people, not as body parts or animal labels. Thank you for this episode
This Podcast bangs! First time listening and will defo listen to more. ❤
I believe that “most” people on apps or that have very specific standards don’t actually know what they want. I believe they mostly cling to what’s familiar, and because of this, convince themselves that this makes them happy and that’s what they want. I know this because I was this. But when I met someone that went against EVERY STANDARD AND REQUIREMENT that I had, I found true happiness! Other friends that I have also found this. It’s important to keep an open mind. And it also takes less stress off of you as the person. All of it does impact your mental health and can keep you from being, not just happy, but fulfilled as a human being. I hope everyone finds the lid to their pot!! 🥰
I'm really enjoying this conversation.
It reminds me of the time I had came to grips with "Secret vs Private."
There's keeping a secret about my life, which is usually something I'd feel shame about, vs making something private, which is something I hold to be personal and not someone else's business.
I grew up in a house where anything that wasn't divulged would be deemed "keeping secrets" and there wasn't any room for privacy. Secrets were bad.
Once I learned the difference I realized how wonderful it is to have something just for myself or with a small group of people who share in it.
Also, the conversation about fetishizing something/someone: I enjoy certain kinds of role play and fetishization. But, in the end, I want a partner who is a whole person. So, I feel as if it has a space in our lives that can be healthy as long as we also understand that the person we're fetishizing is a 3 dimensional human being at the end of the day.
What a great episode! I agree and feel the same way about a lot of topics you discussed. I didn’t think there was anyone like me in the gay community.. I feel out of place so much in the gay dating/hookup community.
Just found your channel and loved it. It is so great to hear a mature conversation about this topic. 👏
You are great role models!
Guys, this was a great podcast. Thank you for sharing your views on the grinder experience. I've actually experienced all of what you said and agree with all of it. I've deleted and installed the app so many times. It really does affect my mental health when I'm on it. Not only by how people interact/treat me but also by how I start to treat others and objectify them. That's not who I am, so no Grinder for me. Plus I'm not a virtual dater. Give me real people who can interact in real life, in person, any day! Thank you for putting words to this phenomenon. Much appreciated :)
Hey guys, I love your stuff. I've listened to a lot of different coaches podcasts, and I am so happy to have found this collection. I'll be listening to more of your stuff.
In this particular episode. I agree with everything you're saying. I personally feel that the issue isn't just grindr. I believe the issue stems from LGBT as a whole. Labelling each other. Boxing people in categories. Instead of just looking at each other as human beings. On their own journey through life.
Keep up the great work.
Best of luck from the land down under 🤠
Julia - what a top recommendation. Brilliant. Thanks guys 😀
Love that you guys are discussing topics like this. But I do feel the need to add a comment to an observation you guys made. GRINDR simply joined back alleys, dark rooms, basements, etc., as a method where men can connect with someone like them. One of the differences though is the app allows people to do it at a distance, almost in a 'cancel culture' fashion. It allows men who use the app to be very aggressive and / or rude in responding to other people. GRINDR, in that regards, is operating in the same space offered by the anonymity when making horrible comments on news items, or peoples' social media items. There once was a time when rejecting a person required you to do it face to face. In those times you would be more likely to do that 'dis-entangling' with nuance and nicety--or you could experience a beat down. So GRINDR simply removed the repercussions an individual might experience when they conduct themselves in a rude and abrupt fashion. And frankly, many in the younger generations are not getting the same lessons at home (about community, connectedness, civility) as older generations got through experience and just living life. This failure to educate people on the very social and connected nature of our existence is one of our civilizations greatest shortcomings.
I wholeheartedly agree with you, the ability to interact socially with people is a core skill for a successful life. Their are now two whole generations that do not seem to learn the skill set you mention and I worry for future generations if this gets worse.
This conversation makes me value both of you even more. You're definitely a beautiful match.
😎🤘🏾
This podcast is amazing. I wish to have exactly such conversations. I hardly find guys with such a thought process to date in India. You go boys ✌️.
Absolutely love this conversation, it’s crazy how we are already marginalised and then we marginalise our community further with the whole tribes thing. I’ve really grown to hate Grindr
OMG so many things I wanna say!! First of all; THANK YOU ALGORITHM for leading this to me😉. It is so refreshing watching a normal conversation between two guys without the whole stereotypes of the whole gay culture; gurl, biatch, slay and so on. It is funny, don´t get me wrong but it can also be too much and there is a lot of it out here on the world wide web. Then to hear the ex rugby player ( I forget his name but I remember him coming out in Attitude I think it was ) talk gives me hope and I feel like I need to delete my Grindr. She does me no good gurrrl, okrrrrr, tongue pop! 😂Maybe because he has lived all his life in a hetero world, he has come out of it and is behaving like a decent person? I don´t know what I´m on about but it makes sense in my head. So now I feel I´ve done my duty, I´ve liked, commented, shared AND subscribed. Bring it boys, I want more!
Saaaaaame. Algorithm got me and I’m happy lol
Grindr is complicated because you will definitely get messaged by someone you're not attracted to and there are only 3 things you can do about it. Block them, tell them or ignore them. None are pleasant but some approaches are objectively horrible. Having preferences I think is welcome because I wanna be with someone who's prefer me and vice versa. It's what you do with your preferences that is key for me.
I really enjoyed this podcast and it hit home too. You touched upon so many points that are true and so many topics that I feel are relevant in today's dating world. That's why I feel it's so hard to meet someone because you/I have to question myself if I fit into one of these categories. (And I do) I'm sorry to say, but seeing guys putting all their pictures out on social media of themselves (nothing wrong with a full body clothed picture) but posing in the gym showing off or nude, makes you question...am I good enough for someone to like me or love me? Guys, this was a very good talk and you handled it so well. Thank you! 👍
I connected as well in many points they said thru out the podcast. What I have done today is deleting many contacts or unfollow people who just show off their body for sexy/thirst posts or mute those who I still like to talk to but dont want to see any of that interaction. The more I put my mind an focus on that the more I feel more insecure about me or my body, so I decided to knock down those profiles and start to see instead what I truly like and relate to without feeling less worthy or uncomfortable. That is doing it for me :)
I thought that was Keegan! 😍😊Happy to have found this podcast!
Great podcast !!!!!
I'm really enjoying your podcast... It was such a random one that I came across lyk 😊❤💜
"Vanity metrics" - what a great and sharp way to describe it!
Honestly, I think those more superficial preferences on dating apps are a matter of maturity and aging: As you get older, not only does your own physical appearance change over time. You'll also be more likely to have experienced at least one serious, monogamous, long-term relationship. And that will hopefully have made you better at recognizing exactly which metrics really matter to you in your search. And hopefully, you'll also have gotten better at spotting possible red flags.
We all live and learn, even as we navigate the dating jungle. 💟
My Boy Friend Left me 3 months Ago Now I,m Back In The Dating Market Are You Interested
Another great podcast 👍 Unsolicited nudes and inappropriate sexual questions from strangers have gotten worse over the years. Social media makes some think it’s ok but all it does is make them look like a creepy pervert and get blocked.
Yes, I feel like people think because they're generally not homophobic, they can ask anything because they're 'embracing' the culture - but by doing it they're actually showing that they still 'other' you and reduce you down to your sexuality
Heres a gem...
My 26 yo sister sales solar units for your roof. She has a work cell where she can call or text potential customers, along with emails. They have no idea what she looks like they only hear her voice. It is ASTOUNDING how disgusting men can be towards a woman they have never seen and only said 2 paragraphs too!! Monthly, at least, she gets a random dic pic or naked body pic. She has men profess thier love to her, would leave their wives for her, etc. Its INSANE.....
And they arent even GOOD pictures!
@@src3360 why doesn’t that surprise me? What do those twisted people think when they hear a complete stranger on the phone? Absolute madness.
@@Brooksie603
Yea, its frightening.
In reality, shes a pretty 5'8 blonde who free dives, lives in Florida on the beach. If they were to actually see her who knows how they would react 😦😧
Just gold.
Also a Libra Joel, I feel for you. Love Hyacinth Bucket.
Just as an FYI: this was randomly recommended to me by UA-cam, so I think you might get big soon. Good luck!!
Another great episode
Thank you for this discussion. I have listened to it twice now. I fall into the category as one who does not fit into any of the stereotypical types. I must remain diligent in my efforts to not allow the fact I don't fit into a mold to negatively impact my self-image. I would love to see this discussion expanded on a wider scale. While I greatly appreciate your effort to bringing the topic to light, my critique would be that it only scratched the service. The conversation was shaped from voices of pretty privilege. One part of the discussion seemed almost condescending to discuss taking the risk of the "wild card" that "i don't feel like I'm as attracted to." While the intent, I believe, was to say keep your options open (a positive message), it reads to me as if it comes from a place of superiority and in essence slumming to a lower level (and I say reads to me because my interpretation is based on my life experiences). I would be very interested to see where the conversation goes with more differing voices. Thank you for the topic and thanks for sharing.
Hey guys - really enjoying your channel.
"70" feel and act 45 [ no surgeries, just moisturizer ] - it's not a cliche, love you, your talents, enjoy your activities ! HONESTY rules.
Just live . . . and respect. You got it guys - Hugs - jojo
I love this topic. I enjoy listenting. I don't think Grindr or the hookup apps are anything "new". I just think they bring out at an exponential level and everything that has already been present in gaymen or men (at least since I've been on the Earth). Men want sex! In terms of preferances, we might not have been aware of the level of fetishization that exists because smarphones and internet weren't around yet. I have my "fetishes or sexual fanstaies too." I'm not above it. As for sexual attraction. If you're not sexually atracted to a given look or skin color/origin, it doens't mean you are prejudice or racist. You can't help who you're attracted to. I also agree with you guys that some men on these appa and in person it was not different can be nasty, cruel or inhuman to others. We can be. It just depends on the circumstances.
Thank you for creating an intelligent, non-hyper-sexualized forum for issues gay men are interested in! (I would ask out either of you. You are both so interesting!)
Interesting pod but I don't think half of the real issues are covered about the apps.
I'm 52, everyone my age seems to want younger. Every profile I click on is a partnered profile. I'm sat there scrolling and wanting someone to find me attractive enough from a tiny pic, and you end up sitting there thinking what's wrong with me. Am I that ugly.
Most conversations seem to be from people too far to ever meet. The app has become about making money.
People may say I'm a bear, so I joined Growlr no one messages me on there, or responds to my messages. If they start a conversation the conversation dries up. You answer a message someone has just sent and they don't respond even though they started the conversation.
In the days, I did meet you would deal with timewasters and catfish but if you do meet you end up with guys that wanna sit on the phone hunting for more.
I've had to come off them as it was making me question my attractiveness, and believe me it gets worse as you get older.
All apps have done is make me wonder whats wrong with me, so there's no point being on it.
I have found that I get more responses when I reach out in the apps. I think many times guys don’t want to reach out and be rejected. To me it really is a nothing ventured, nothing gained reality. Yes, some guys may reject or block you, but I am amazed how once that first contact is made, things can open up. I am 56 by the way and get more conversation with the younger set which is not my ‘typical’ preference. Simple positive things like ‘nice smile’ or ‘great pic’ can be good ice breakers. Hope you try and see if your experience on the apps becomes different. Waiting on guys just to hit you up makes potential meetups less likely.
@Tom baker Tried that. I ever get a block or tumbleweed. I'm fine dying alone and being eaten by my cats
Interesting topics! I met my partner on Grindr 8 years ago and we are still together. I didn’t expect much from that app but it was a way of meeting guys when you’d got no gay scene. One of the biggest prejudices I found on there was the ageism which meant instant blocks in many cases. Many guys seem to pigeon hole themselves to the extent that it’s unlikely that they will ever meet anyone of substance.
From what people say, Grindr got worse after I used it and has for sure affected the dating scene. It’s obvious that people are losing social skills and quality interaction due to these apps.
The lack of social skills is quite frankly alarming and scary.
Like I think ageism can be justified because I think older men texting 18 year olds shouldn’t be normalized. At least the person be polite and say you are not into that.
@@UmbraStarWolf You do have a good point there. Unless of course the 18 year old is advertising for older men to contact them. I know back when I was 30 I used to deliberately message some of the very young guys on Grindr that they were leaving themselves open to dangerous situations.
I do still worry that people do not take adequate precautions when setting up meets through the various apps. People blindly go off and meet total strangers without telling anyone who they are meeting, where they are going, or when or how they are getting back.
If anyone has read this far, find a friend you trust that will be able to raise the alarm if you don’t report back. Tell them everything you know about your meet, where you are going, where he lives and when you are going to be back. Possibly send a screenshot which shows the date and account name. Oh, and have fun when you get there 😜
The male homo sapiens is wired to objectify people. Whoever we don't want to mate with or fear to protect ourselves, we ignore. It's been a successful evolutionary strategy but it is playing out differently in our modern society.
Great podcast! Aside from the difference between prejudice and preference being prejudice really only focuses on exclusion ("no xxx etc" rather than "I like xxx"), the way the preference is expressed is also sometimes kinda weird. Like, "I like red-headed guys" is not a problematic thing to say but "I only ever date gingers" hits different. Part of it is maybe internet speak too - being a little bit over the top - but it is a very much masculine thing (gay and straight) to be objectifying what one desires.
Good point mate. We are a savage bunch after all.
Love it, love it, love it, Been a widower now for over 4 years, when me and my second wife met, she said to her mates I’ve met this guy, he’s not my type but gonna go on a date with him, one of her mates told me and it was an ongoing joke, because I’m not your type 🤣…… 14 years of true happiness until she passed away…… always been bi but now living as a gay man and loving it 🏉🌈🏉
Good for you mate, I’m never entirely sure either the gay or straight world truly understand bisexuality. Youth spent with men and women (I’ve always liked older types, despite being the active partner) almost alternating between the two.
LTRs with both sexes, I was very happily married to a woman and I’m about to marry my hubbie of 15 years.
My horrible experience in the past , received from teachers, students , neighbours and relatives finally showing it's effect. My psychiatrist has been diagnosing various mental illnesses one after another. I had completely lost my ability to interact, world has become a giant cage for me and I am it's miserable prisoner. I am closeted(loving and being loved by a boy is like a dream, which I am positive will never happen)and I hope someday this darkness will go away.
sorry you're going through this, I've been in similar situations. You need to heal and I believe you will over time
@@Harry-fk5of thanks for your kind words. It means a lot.
As an older Gay man, I have found the dating websites a total waste of time and money. They further cause divisions between Gay men and really cause younger guys to have unnecessary doubts about themselves and others.
Whilst there are toxic elements to dating, you have to understand that you can't force someone to be attracted to somebody, all people have their preferences and looking for diversity and representation in someones dating preferences is not going to happen.
Agreed. Sometimes I come across a tinder profile that says something like “not attracted to fem guys” and I completely get it and I know that I’m not they’re preference anymore. It doesn’t mean they don’t like people like me as a person, they just don’t find people like me sexually attractive and that’s ok! I prefer to know straight up anyway. I don’t want to know that someone had to “unlearn” preferences in order to be attracted to me,,, it just sounds weird.
I've tried dating guys that weren't really my type because I was worried that maybe I was too picky. What ended up happening was that they were falling in love with me and I ended up never catching feelings for them. So then I felt like crap having to end it because I was hoping that feelings would develop over time, and they never did. So now I only go for guys that I know I'm attracted to and then hope that there's more substance and heart to them as well.
@@elsolslb woah i didn’t even think about it like that either. But yeah I’d definitely want someone who I’m already their type and dang it must’ve felt like you were leading them on. Glad it seems like you stopped it before it went too far.
@@elsolslb ooh some other thing I just heard from gay guys in UA-cam videos were them shaming people if they were strictly a bottom or strictly calling themselves a top thinking it’s outdated. Like not everyone needs to be vers and some wouldn’t like being in a certain situation. It’s very bad imo
Exactly! As a mixed Asian, I don't want someone to date me as a diversity quota. I want someone who really fancies me. So I don't mind seeing "No Asians" on profiles because it lets me know who to stay away from. Wouldn't want to date or befriend someone like that anyway lol
I was never that unhappy with Grindr. I’ve had it since I was 18 or 19 and I’m 27 now. I used to do hook ups in the past but now I don’t. Not saying it’s bad to do but it’s the constant sexualization of people judging me and me judging others. It just creates a lot of unnecessary negative habits. Especially if you are mentally feeling low, going on Grindr can make you feel bad about yourself when you see other guys profiles. All social media is a bit like that. In saying that, there’s a lot of really good & genuinely nice people who are perfectly normal on the app too which is great. I deleted the app 3 weeks ago for the first time and I’ve genuinely noticed a difference in my general well being. When I feel down, I don’t have the app to go into and make me feel even worse. It’s also full of married closest gay men who want to be discreet and just want to collect pics. It’s just wrong. I don’t miss the app whatsoever.
Good for you mate.
Someone had to start dissecting our world like you do guys. Congratulations.
U are hot❤️
I think the actor you're referring to is David Hyde Pierce who was in the tv show Frasier.
The actress who played Frasier's ex-wife Dr. Lilith Sternin, to whom they referred, is Bebe Neuwirth. She is playing the character Avis DeVoto in Julia.
However, Lilith was not Frasier's first wife as Keegan said.
The character Nanette Guzman, portrayed by Emma Thompson on the TV show Cheers, was Frasier's first wife. (For those that don't know, the show Frasier was a spin-off for the character Dr. Frasier Crane that originated on the show Cheers.)
David Hyde Pierce, who played Dr. Niles Crane on Frasier, is playing Julia Child's husband Paul Child on the show Julia.
Another notable actress who has a recurring role on Julia is Judith Light, who played the character Angela Bower on the sitcom Who's The Boss? and the character Claire Meade on the sitcom Ugly Betty, just to name two of her many acclaimed roles. She plays the recurring character Blanche Knopf on Julia.
As a group we are already defined by an orientation. Being guys who are into guys. These categories refine that. There is nothing wrong with having an age preference for example. As a man in my 50s I would feel uncomfortable approaching or being approached by someone less than half my age. Particularly if I'm being fetishised as a "Daddy" (very ick inducing term). As a poz guy I want to be upfront about it. If people are prejudiced I want them to leave me alone I certainly don't want that aspect of my life turned into a kink. And I am into guys so trans women and CD play does nothing for me. For other people that's legitimately what they are looking for. My problem with grindr and scruff is they are buggy, full of bots and catfish and don't have proper blocking procedures for the free versions. You can be constantly pestered and have no way of drawing up boundaries.
I really appreciate these guys' podcasts. The only point of view that was maybe a bit missing from this great conversation is the idea that the app is just an app. It's a tool. Do you blame the hammer for hitting someone or do you blame the person wielding the hammer? I submit that the apps like Grindr/Scruff and whatever else has come up in the last 12 years since I've been married, is less the problem and more the "permission" people give themselves on how to behave when they're on them.
It's a great point that the apps give you the opportunity to reduce/categorize yourself into "Twink/Bear/Jock/Muscle" etc., but people don't HAVE to do that. And even if they do, they don't have to eliminate or zero in on others because of those categories. Just like people don't have to catfish youn on it, or call you unkind names, or go out of their way to be mean because they feel bad about themselves and want you to feel bad, too.
I think the way people behave on those apps is what makes the experience sketchy and unhealthy, but it's not the tech's fault. Look, if you wanna get your knob wet and wanna use the app for that, then get your knob wet and have at it. Have a great time and move on. But don't be messy about it and don't go out of your way to ruin the experience for others.
I was told by a guy in Grindr that I look like a sack of potatoes 🥔 haha. Gay guys are extremely mean!!!
Great topic to discuss and challenge people to go beyond the statistics and a particular “type”. I just wanted to add that this behavior pre-dated Grindr-it was part of the pre-digital/pre-social media world too. I remember having a conversation with a guy I know many years ago who would only go out with bodybuilders. I thought at the time how shallow that was and all of the great people he was excluding by not giving the time of day to anyone who did not meet that criteria. This was also depicted in Sex and the City with episodes with guys “who only date models”.
Very true, I’m old enough to remember the pre internet browser era, and I admit at uni it was still the same meat market and yes I played that game. We just used to make the effort to go out to a club/pub and meet there.
Sadly the gay scene in this country has been dying a death since the introduction of the internet and apps.
You mean this episode ua-cam.com/video/D0NJEw_CpWM/v-deo.html ? I have a friend who's like this but he's certainly no model or prize by any standard though. I think this more do with some mens inherent narcissism, which if they have the genetics or are born in the right circumstances, will take full advantage of the sexual inequalities of society to the fullest extent. Which isn't to say that women aren't like this as well (especially today).
@@Not-Ap I’m not convinced it’s inherent narcissism, though their are people who live at the extreme ends of any personality classification. I always remind myself that what people find attractive has shifted throughout the ages. I can only speak from my own experiences and on the whole I’ve found gay men to be far more body positive than straight men or women, yes we’ve all seen the guys that only want their version of a perfect man (even if it’s just for a few hours during a meet) but those guys and gals exist across the whole spectrum of gender and identities.
I’ve known and met men from every colour, creed, social strata, body type, and religion (please note I don’t use the term race as I am a very outspoken anti-racist). They all have something to offer far beyond the superficial ‘first look’ and deserve to be worshipped by a partner that loves them for who they are not what they appear to be. But, as you can probably tell from the fact I tend write long posts I’m a conversationalist and I’ve had great talks with men and women from all walks of life, sadly that is what I think we are losing in app driven encounters. I pity the young who have been raised thinking it is normal to barely respond in more than a couple of words to any interaction and hopefully this is not a trend that will continue to get worse.
Think back to the paintings of Rubén’s, when the ideal of beauty and sexual attraction was to be pale and overweight. (Simply at the time due to the fact these attributes were good indicators of wealth and social status, adequate food and no need to work outdoors.)
An interesting point for gay men to actually look at are the statues/wall paintings particularly from the Greco-Roman period, where small penises were considered to be attractive and desired admittedly with muscular defined bodies, but the difference in size preference is very pronounced compared to today. During that period a common element of humorous or erotic poetry was the minor fertility god Priapus, who was cursed with well endowment, a permanent erection and somewhat noteworthy the inability to achieve either penetration/orgasm depending on the text.
I’m never 100% sure why he is regarded as a fertility god, because of the above factors. Though from a quick read through just before writing this it does appear that at the lower end of the social scale he was better regarded, which probably explains the lack of temples etc.
Something to think on for those who seek perfect perhaps.
Apps like Grindr and others have not "created" anything that did not already exist in the gay community...all it does is give the men a place to put down the thoughts that they already have....and a place to do it anonymously...but the apps do not put those thoughts into people's heads at all....the gay "community" has always been divisive and divided.
As someone who never use any of those applications, I can't have a real view about them... But for me, I don't find it hurtful to read another one preferences.
If somobody can write some kinds of things, It does not show they are bad people, it does just prouve that, you, you don't wanna spend your time with that kind of person.
Most of the time, most people don't act against anyone. They just dont know.
We can be nowadays very sensitive and to quick to juge others insteed of working only on being a better version of ourselves.
Anyway, it was good watching this episode.
❤
Great podcast guys. 100% agree with what you have both said! Nice just to find a nice chilled person that looks after themselves and has their head screwed on.
You guys brought up penis size. I can tell you that it is a definite thing on almost all apps and in the gay community. As a man that was not blessed with even average "manhood" I have had that used against me and have even been made fun of during more than one hookup. I have never understood as a bottom why that has to be such a big thing for a top that the bottom also has to have a "large" manhood? As you can tell I'm not shy about talking about it anymore, I guess being 53 I'm just to the point that I don't give a shit much anymore. However; I guess to some degree I still do, it still makes me mad and upset. It's hard enough growing up gay and feeling that you are a small animal in a cage with a ravenous monster that is ready to kill you the moment you make even the slightest movement, grew up in the southern United States in a very rural area, to have people you thought would accept you turn against you for something that you have no control over. Thank you for the vlogs and the podcast, on here and your personal channels. Keep up the great work. Love to both of you. ❤
Thank you for your honesty, and you are quite right that if I’m searching for a hookup then c**k size doesn’t really come into the equation at all. As long as you’ve got one and are happy in your role as a bottom, and don’t feel pigeon holed into that group because of your size.
As a top their are loads of elements to sex that turn me on, but one of the biggest for me is the fact that I like to please my bottom. So yes I like to massage your package at times but mostly all I want to hear your ecstasy, your moans, plus some compliments on my technique/body are very welcome.
I’m 59 and five years out of a twelve year relationship (someone I didn’t have an immediate attraction to … but 12 great years together)and very much old school when it comes to meeting and dating , never have I ever down loaded or used a hook up/ dating app … I’m going to just leave it up to the Universe.
Good for you, we have several single friends our age (my hubbie and I are about your age) and yes we’ve both used apps in the past but we met by random chance and it’s still as amazing today as it was the day we met.
Be it in bed, a chat or just for a cuddle, we are perfectly happy together 😀
It is unfortunate how so many toxic behaviours are normalised in places like grindr, there you always have to expect a certain level of disrespect.
I hate grindr and dating apps in general, but there's not many other options other than gay bars ( and those are also another environment that I find quite toxic)
Then people are like: but you're looking in the wrong place, and then I'm like: what am I supposed to do then? Go flirt with guys at the grocery store?
I think there's a few things you could do to improve your odds of attracting the right kind of guys:
- choose a dating app rather than a hookup app
- make some deliberate choices about how you present yourself in your profile (= how you want your first impression to be perceived by your potential future husband)
- pay more attention to how you interact on apps, such as how you initiate contact, figure out what communication style works better for your purposes
- if you're more into meeting potential dating material IRL, try joining some social groups (sports, hobbies, lifestyles, causes). Most major cities will have LGBT-themed social groups on apps such as MeetUp that organize regular events such as hikes, picnics, cultural events, etc.
- if you live in a remote or rural region, consider whether you would be willing to relocate to a larger city, or whether you would be willing to try having a long-distance relationship initially (or even permanently)
Don't expect a certain level disrespect! Avoid or ignore disrespectful people and focus on being respectful to others and hopefully that will go a long way to attract nice people into your life, some of whom might even be boyfriend material, who knows?
i mean.. please hear what i am saying.. didn’t you two choose each other based on looks as well.? this topic is very grey.. appreciate bringing it up though
I'm acuarius 😅 .. no just kidding but loved the phrase because i always use it , and , i just want to Say thanks , lovely podcast 😊
biggest problem with these apps is due to all reasons you talked about characteristics, for those who want dates you need to talk and get to know them but unless you fit the criteria they just ignore you. been single for too long (years) and get like 1 reply every 4-5 months on these apps and they stop talking after 1 day usually
I know its not remotely perfect, but thank god for the bear tribe. Im short, stumpy, furry with calves normally associated with, say keegan, and have never been happier or more accepted. Life can be an utter git sometimes, but now and again you are lucky to meet and associate with a group of people who just accept you for you x
I feel like this sort of discussion is getting tiresome; the reason being is that grindr isn't the only app that allows people to single others from stats. I feel like we blame grindr for preferences people will already have and or had before. I just think its one sided to think that you shouldn't exclude someone for x,y,or z but at the same time the same people who criticize preferences have their own preferences. Even though you two "say" you don't have preferences i'm sure out of all the people you have hooked up with and dated have been in some form in a league that isn't in line with other peoples. It comes off as virtue signaling and it really doesn't help people who may not feel they are the "perfect" body type in these spaces. I really wish there were more videos out there helping men become better at flirting and or dating instead of scolding a bunch of people who aren't going to change their tastes.
Nice inversion on the topic and yes helping gay men understand how to flirt/date is a great idea.
I met my first boyfriend on Myspace in 2004 ish.... lol😂
Apps only serves closet queen's, the scene only serves club owners.... Hard meeting gay men these days...
As a off and on Grindr user, I've had other guys on the app get upset with me when I try to be polite if not a match.....
A bit random here, but as an American, I absolutely love the way these two say bigger words like clandestine or fetishisation haha
Scary with Grinder. You never really know who you might be hooking up with, like a Jeffry Dhalmer. Great discussion.
Maybe start seeing apps like Grindr for what they are and use them as such, which will already get rid of all these problems. I feel most of these things come from people that look for relationships on it or hope to get them after a hook-up....
Grindr is nothing new. Before Grindr there were dance parties, and at the dance parties all of the attractive guys were generally in one area, and there was a kind of hierarchy. I wasn't that unattractive, but (this might sound bad) that old line from a Neil Young song kept on coming into my head: "It doesn't mean that much to me to mean that much to you." I had a good friend and everything in his life was about having a man. When his boyfriend dumped him at 38 he committed suicide. It is a very dangerous thing to attach your happiness to other people's affirmation. 50 comes around very quickly.
Thank you for sharing! Happiness has to come from within.
I can’t agree with you more. That was a very powerful statement/story! The truth is we all need to be working on ourselves, whether or not we are in a romantic relationship. To have this idea of a « successful relationship » being the deciding factor of your own self worth is very dangerous, indeed.
Joel, I have been watching you, off & on since before Lia was robbed in the hotel lobby in Paris, remember that?
I'm suggesting a series of books that I know you'd enjoy. Armistad Maupin's "Tales of the City".These started as a column in a Sn Francisco newspaper, then became a series of books about gay life in the 1970-80-90, in the US and a segment goes to the UK. All the characters are intertwined somehow. It is VERY light reading, I bet you could finish the entire set (about 9 medium size books) in a weekend, at the speed you read. These are gay popcorn, page turners. Hope you look for them.
I loved Betty Blue Eyes, it was a crackling, I mean cracking show! Who knew Kylie Minogue was so versatile... as for Grim-dear, I think it has destroyed the scene that I came out into and there's little point going out on the scene anymore.
That’s one of the biggest things I complain about in our social circle. The fact we don’t support our own safe spaces is mind boggling to me.
I do take part of this in a positive light, that previously straight venues are now suitable as areas to have same-sex drinks and pick ups.
But the heart of our community are those drag bars, the gay nightclubs and the gay only hotels etc. I am finding it harder and harder to groups to go out to one of our local gay venues.
Yet, years ago it was my straight mates begging to be allowed to come along on big gay nights out.
Trans women are asked all the time about their sex lives too, it's literally people being super ignorant and not seeing someone as a real person. Also don't even ask a sex worker what their sex position is unless you're actually working with them
Grindr is great for mining comedy but being in it sometimes feels like a tragedy, especially if you live in a society that is hostile.
Exactly. And it is painful being party to tragedy.
Girl anyways. ..
@@noimnotakpoppfpsheacy2526 anyways, so....
Very true, we do need to think of all our LGBTQ+ cousins who live in countries were just being LGBTQ+ is not just illegal but also a potential death sentence.
I don't mind people's looks being respectfully categorized as long as they don't mind. To me, it's more of a physical description. Bear, twink, muscle hunk, otter. It can be fun and give you a sense of community sometimes. But if someone doesn't want to be called by a category name, than that's perfectly fine too.
I agree with you, I classify myself all the time. What I find to be unacceptable is excluding people by categories. Especially categories that are not based on who they are, or stuff that’s just based on a chance of birth/genetics.
Weirdly enough I can respect the decision to exclude someone based on decisions/efforts they have for example ‘no muscle guys’.
I'm older generation. I'm no longer on the gay scene by choice, i had many negative experiences in the past. It was very hard to meet and find someone who's genuine. I was part of the scene too, and had different sexual encounters. Gays do put labels on each other.