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LiFePO4 batteries are cheaper than other lithium-ion batteries because they use iron instead of cobalt or nickel as the main component of the cathode material. Iron is more abundant and less expensive than cobalt or nickel. These are the newer batteries, they are safer, hold more charge, and cheaper to manufacture. Nickel and all metals are RECYCLABLE anyway.
What happens to all the "dead" car batteries? Do we have the technology to recycle them? To what extent? 100% If not, what happens to the non-recyclable waste?
propaganda. coal and other mining activities are as bad. Additionally, EVs in the West are slowly transitioning away from nickel based batteries. Most EVs in China don't use nickel or cobalt.
@@HobbyOrganist LFP is cheaper and less prone to thermal runaway, but Li-ion battery with NMC has higher capacity with the same kg (higher energy density ~250 Wh/kg vs LFP's 150-160 or so). So it depends what kind of application is it required for. LFP definitely is a win for stationary storage, but for EV which want to have long range with same weight / space constraint I don't think LFP has cracked it yet (say 80 kWh capacity requirement). Lower end electric cars indeed use LFP, trading off capacity (only 40-50kWh) for its cheaper battery cost
Indonesia is where the US was in the early 1900s when Ford was building factories. Do you think Ford was thinking about the environment? The one thing that well off people don't realize is that people who are poor don't give a f*ck about the environment if they are struggling to survive. They don't care, and neither would you. Anybody who looks down upon poor countries who are now starting to pollute and sell their resources are disconnected from reality and they are hypocrites. These countries are doing now what the US and other Western countries have been doing for the past 150 years in order to become an advanced civilization. If your family was barely getting by, I assure you that every single one of us would do the same and not think twice
Today there is no place for ignorance and the Chinese mining corporations have the conditions to apply safety procedures. for the environment and humans. There is no reason for Chinese corporations to exercise their operations without safety just to save another penny at the cost of environmental health!
It's a coal problem, not a nickel one. And Indonesia will swipe to clean energy. And, LFP battery (without nickel and cobalt) are coming. Byd and Tesla are the first to use it. Conclusion : how much money Bloomberg received from oil/gas industry ?
YES! This 100%. Why isn't anyone focusing on how amazing EVs are versus gas. If both EVs and gas cars started out right now, you would have to make the argument that you have to drill this black goo out of the earth on the far side of the world, transport it across the oceans, spend ridiculous amounts of energy refining it, then ship it via truck or pipeline to others parts of the country, bury it back into the ground and then have people pump out toxic gas into the atmosphere. EVs: install solar on your roof, charge up at home, go really fast nice and quiet, no maintenance.
@@mikeshaferProvided you have $85,000 for an EV with no dealership maintenance and another $35,000 every 100,000 miles to send it back to Elondia for a new battery pack and service upgrade, while you hail Lyft for 8 weeks. "Come on, baby needs a new pair of _shoes!"_
@@muktadirbhuyan7281EVs are a necessity but the current resource sourcing is flawed, that is the argument here. In fact the same is true about chocolates, mobiles phone and many more, the sourcing system is flawed but in those cases, it is improving. Another thing is, BEVs are not the only EV technology, there is Hydrogen which is a much better technology but the infrastructure does not exist and it is still many decades away. Some cars and trucks do exist in market but they are sold in just few states in US and a few cities in UK
@@sondrejohansen48 I can agree with that, I am an advocate for PHEV which I own one it give 40km of electric range which covers my daily drive and for long drive I rely on the ICE engine. There is zero charging infrastructure where I live for a BEV is absolutely no go. People needs to understand Amarica is not the world and an EV is an absolutely unthinkable in third world country or a developing country due to cost and lack of infrastructure.
Can't believe Bloomberg fell for clickbait titles. Such low standards. This is a story of bad mining practices, government oversight, unsafe work conditions, poverty, and inequality. EV's are not the problem. Bad policy is the problem.
Without demand, there wouldn't be a need for supply. That's called interconnectedness. And without corporations bribing the government, there might not be so much corruption.
Ev's are unsustainable technology and also the electric grid cannot even handle 20% of all car's being electric, the grid would melt down from the current drain.
OK, after watching half of the clip, I got the idea. So this is to implied the critics to China for the safety problem in nickel industry in Indonesia. Let's imagine if Europian or American companies own the nickel mines instead of China. I bet nothing will be better, except that there'll be no more clips and news to report this "Read more about Indonesia's Deadly Mining...". We all know that everything in UA-cam would be "wrong" in those eyes if it relates to China unless we critisize China.
but are they lying? I agree that western media are extremely biased, but the concerns raised are very valid, China cut cost so much they sacrifice wellbeing of locals in the area
This video is clearly made to discredit the biggest EV battery producer, right after the recent tariff hikes....come on 🇺🇸 you can do better than this.
It's a coal problem, not a nickel one. And Indonesia will swipe to clean energy. And, LFP battery (without nickel and cobalt) are coming. Byd and Tesla are the first to use it. Conclusion : how much money Bloomberg received from oil/gas industry ?
"If you know the money behind Bloomberg". I know the money behind Bloomberg, and a simple Google search can let everybody know: Bloomberg is a privately held company. It is majority owned by its founder, Michael Bloomberg, who owns 88% of the company. Bloomberg is primarily a financial news organization, but also reports on general business and economic news. Bloomberg's primary income comes from the 'Bloomberg Terminal', a kind of connected screen that gives its customers real-time stock quotes and a multitude of other real-time financial information.
@@ihmpallTesla in Fords are not made in Indonesia. Do you know where their metals are sourced from? They was zero information discussed or presented in the video beyond, "hey look at how polluted this third world heavy I did trial sector is." Have you been to Fort McMurray in Canada, where they mine and process oil shake? It's far more polluted than this place and stretches across thousands of square miles.
It's a coal problem, not a nickel one. And Indonesia will swipe to clean energy. And, LFP battery (without nickel and cobalt) are coming. Byd and Tesla are the first to use it. Conclusion : how much money Bloomberg received from oil/gas industry ?
Well then give them a chance, invest and build production centres there rather than just mining and importing their natural resources. Not just china but also western countries
It's a coal problem, not a nickel one. And Indonesia will swipe to clean energy. And, LFP battery (without nickel and cobalt) are coming. Byd and Tesla are the first to use it. Conclusion : how much money Bloomberg received from oil/gas industry ?
@@EwaRiro no, not a lie. But as some commenter from Indonesia pointed out here, these companies are there for decades and these issues are there since beginning. So the real question is why western media were not interested in reporting about that till now? He said the government recently banned the export of the raw ore as they want to force companies to build smelters there and have higher profit from it. Also Nickel is used in multitude of applications, so why choosing EVs? Especially when battery manufacturers are actually moving away from Nickel based batteries and significantly reduced the amount of it in the batteries in last 5 years. Everything is pointing to this being sponsored by someone who don't like EVs🤷♂
It's a coal problem, not a nickel one. And Indonesia will swipe to clean energy. And, LFP battery (without nickel and cobalt) are coming. Byd and Tesla are the first to use it. Conclusion : how much money Bloomberg received from oil/gas industry ?
For local people, they are very afraid of poverty and hunger. They prefer to work in mines, even though the risks are high. This happens in all Nickel, Gold, Copper, Bauxite, Sulfur and Coal mining locations in Indonesia. Do you know the risks of Coal mining in Kalimantan? Gold and Copper mines in Papua? Or the Sulfur mine on Mount Ijen? All situation are the same.
It's a coal problem, not a nickel one. And Indonesia will swipe to clean energy. And, LFP battery (without nickel and cobalt) are coming. Byd and Tesla are the first to use it. Conclusion : how much money Bloomberg received from oil/gas industry ?
Tesla uses LFP batteries which contains neither nickel nor cobalt, both of which are supply-constrained and expensive. As with lithium, human rights and environmental concerns have been raised concerning the use of cobalt. Environmental concerns have also been raised regarding the extraction of nickel.
Just google those mines, they are absolutely tiny. The environmental impact is negligible in comparison to the massive mines we have in the west or to what other countries do to the rain forest. Absolutely biased and paid report.
Tesla moved to LFP batteries. "LFP contains neither nickel nor cobalt, both of which are supply-constrained and expensive. As with lithium, human rights and environmental concerns have been raised concerning the use of cobalt. Environmental concerns have also been raised regarding the extraction of nickel."
@squibbelsmcjohnson The argument of "Have enough to last" is a logically fallacy. When battery cell chemistry keeps changing and the raw material used keeps changing. We're not going to keep consuming the same resource forever unlike crude oil until supply collapse.
The oil companies know full well electric vehicles are not their competition, and EVs are a fabulous distraction from the real problem of a society based around ownership of an automobile. The longer that problem remains hidden, the more *everyone* in business wins.
What a beatup story 84% of nickel is used in alloys and metal plating only 15% of Nickel is used to make batteries (of all types including disposable and phones etc) less than 5% is used to make car batteries. More than 95% of this story has zero to do with electric cars. Poor reporting to the extreme.
That was the easiest propaganda that can be detected in recent years. 200 years, west mined these places without question. If any brand than republican(for the far left) tesla or byd won the race, this video wouldnt exist :D
THAT is the correct response to all this madness. Stop buying new cars fix up the old ones. get the technology sorted before iterating and smashing the globe in the process.
Indonesian nickel industry had been in existence for decades long before electric 🚗 so exposing dirty secrets of nickel on EV is misleading. Remember COVID 19 shutdown. Cities around the world had their air quality vastly improved when gas guzzlers weren’t polluting
Mining of any sort is dangerous and environmentally hazardous, do NOT spread FUD on EVs just because 3rd world countries do NOT care about safety or environment, instead better suggest how to improve mining conditions in these countries! What do you suggest?? Better burn fossil fuels for next centuries??
yes using fossil fuel directly cuts out all the middle men. NOTHING ON EARTH CAN BE BUILT OR DONE WITHOUT FOSSIL FUEL. WE HAVE PERFECTED IT. TIME TO ENJOY IT.
@@storytimewithunclekumaran5004 It doesn't cut out the middle men. You still have to mine the fuel. And the overall environmental impact has been studied over and over. And in basically every respect air quality, water quality, land use, bio diversity, climate change ... even with all of the cost of building batteries and generating the electricity for them they still end up cleaner.
Now do Oil industry+ Cobalt that goes into the oil industry, bet you didn't know they use the vast majority of cobalt. And then do one about how much taxpayers subsidies this industry that waste 70%+ of all energy to get to the 30% that gets turned into oil products
Current status of Deep Water Horizon Oil Spill. Or how about deforestation for Palm oil for Green Diesel. Use of this cobalt in the fossil fuel industry ?
Freeport is doing the same thing with cooper in Papua. Bloomberg is not saying anything. It is probably because Freeport is a US company not Chinese company.
no mention of the Grasberg mine? Freeport-McMoRan, an American mining company, has been causing an environmental disaster by dumping toxic waste into the river this is no ordinary mine, it's one of the largest in the world, and the US government is well involved in the deal to lease the mine
Lies!! they can survive without nickel mines. They produce art and have beautiful culture. Do you own an EV? have you been to Indonesia? Stop telling yourself that rubbish.
It’s important to talk about these things, but one imagines if Bloomberg will ever make the same videos about the COUNTLESS crimes and abuses US companies and the US government commit every day
This has often been true regarding national policy, but on a personal level, research shows there isn't a strong correlation. 16-25 year olds surveyed on opinions about climate change and the environment had some surprising findings: 1) India, the Philippines, and Brazil topped the list for percentage of young adults who agreed with the statement "Humanity is doomed" (again, this was when they were surveyed in the context of climate change & environmental health). These countries far exceeded the global average while Finland, the US, France, and Australia, to point to four examples, fell below the global average. These countries are also highly susceptible to the risks of climate change and land degradation. 2) Philippines, Brazil, Portugal, and India also topped the list for percentage of young adults who agreed with the statement "The future is frightening". Again, certain countries like Finland and the US were near the bottom of the list. 3) Brazil and the Philippines again topped the list for those who agreed with the statement "I'm hesitant to have children". It's actually surprising how many people in low-income and middle-income countries care about the environment. Sometimes their concerns do manifest in national policies that are more aggressive on climate change & environmental health than what we find in many high-income countries.
Bloomberg is criticizing Indonesia for forcing Chinese and other nickle producers to set up processing plants inside Indonesia. And yes there have been industrial accidents and polution. But the econom of that 1 island where there's nickle grew 600% in 5 years. People can have running water, electricity, a refrigerator. And as they get richer both the pollution and the accident rate will drop, as it has in China. At a growth rate of 600% in 5 years, wait another 5 years and they will have airconditioning and driving the low cost EV's from China. Europe wants Indonesia to sell raw nickle ore to be processed in Europe. This policy is designed keep Indonesians perpetually poor. Indonesia is doing absolutely the right thing for the people of Indonesia. This is a stark difference between European/US investment policy and China investment policy. Western policy is to exploit the global south for raw materials and keep the global south poor. China's goal is to build up the economy of the country so that they will be customers for more advanced products later and increase their trade with China.
The mining companies can do much better to prevent or reduce health/env hazards here. Still EV's causing less pollution in the cities makes it worth the risk. It's the early days of battery industry and frankly much better than early days of gas industry. A small price to pay for a better and greener future. What is the alternative? Again, better processes and regular checks are necessary to make working conditions safer.
I was expecting you to show the technical limitations of electric vehicles but these stories of the dangers of the industry as people work in developing countries to support EVs
I'm pretty sure these concerns will not be brought to life if it were the EU corporations exploiting those Indonesian mines. This is after all a geopolitical case above all else. 😅
Okay, now do a video comparing all of the negative impacts between nickel mining and refining versus all oil mining and refining (just for internal combustion engine purposes). I'll wait... Oh, wait... You won't do that because then you completely use the emotionally motivated purpose for producing politically-titled videos like this.
@@dogger37JC In the title. "The Dirty, Deadly Secret Behind Electric Cars." That title was specifically chosen so that people who are politically aligned with "anti-EV" sentiment would be drawn to the video. Then, this video becomes a weaponized example for people who don't know anything to throw at other people who aren't well-read enough. And if Bloomberg is reading this, and you want to prove that that isn't the case, then just update the title to something that's both more factual accurate and less politicized, like, "Negative Externalities Which Arise from All Mining Resource Cultivation with a Focus on Nickel." Hmmm... Weird that they didn't go with that title. Almost like there was some kind of agenda involved...
Don't forget: The place where your house and your car port and your swimming pool are located was once forrest or farmland. How do you go from your house to your work place and to do shopping? By public transport or with your air polluting car?
Stainless steel is the largest end use for nickel, accounting for just under two-thirds of total consumption. Nickel is used as an alloying agent in the manufacture of both metal products that contain iron and those that do not.Feb 15, 2024
Wood Mackenzi: While stainless steel will continue to be the main first use for nickel, the major engine of demand growth over the next two decades will be batteries. From only 7% of the total market in 2021, we expect battery use to grow to 40% of nickel consumption by 2040...
Really nothing new here. If you think EVs are bad for the environment, just wait until you see how bad the oil industry has been! At least with EVs are are constantly innovating on better, more sustainable batteries. How much has oil changed in the past 100 years?
Will highly recommend everyone to finish the video before reading the comments section. The impacts of Fossil Fuel extraction and mining is well documented. Contrary to the comment section, this video did not deny any of those impacts and did not even compare Electric versus Fossil Fuel. This video is purely on the impacts of EV production. It is not saying that EVs are better, worse or different from Fossil Fuel
They tried to make this seem sooo bad but… should look into how shoes are made… or basically anything else. 100x worse. Go see how chickens are farmed…
😂😂😂😂 just laughing, although it's not thrown into the river, the Indonesian government has planted many trees, now we have investors from Korea and China, building factories and electric cars and motorcycles, it's normal if Indonesia becomes a battery factory, many accusations are made
Ok tell us chief how RURAL people miles away from cities are going to hop on mass transit? Mass transit works in Europe so well because entire countries there are no bigger than many US states! The US has Millions of miles of rural roads far away from cities, it simply is not the same scenario
It's a bit misleading to describe nickel as 'crucial' for making EV batteries. While some EV batteries use nickel, many, if not most EV batteries do not use any nickel (or cobalt) at all, namely Lithium Iron Phosphate.
4 problems here, are under government control to fix: poor energy policy, poor environmental policy, poor worker safety policy, and poor health policy. They can fix it.
Simple, we in the third world invest the money for further economic growth to become developed countries, we can't afford to wait since our population getting older and will lead us to middle income trap if we fail to maximize growth
@@rohitroll2119 LiFePO4 batteries are cheaper than other lithium-ion batteries because they use iron instead of cobalt or nickel as the main component of the cathode material. Iron is more abundant and less expensive than cobalt or nickel. So they wont be even USING nickel in them at all, which makes this "report" already outdated. These are the newer batteries, they are safer, hold more charge, and cheaper to manufacture. Nickel and all metals are RECYCLABLE anyway
Wow! I am Indonesian. And Indonesia is VERY RICH!!! with Natural Resources. But the country is poor because Indonesians were not smart and the Leaders of the country were CORRUPT as hell and took advantage to enrich themselves. Hopefully they are smart enough to this time in doing business when it comes its Natural Resources.
Let's not forget that Indonesia didn't close its doors to anyone else willing to invest and shows how it can be done properly. Only now after massive Chinese investment did everyone cry foul. Don't forget that one of the largest nickel mine (and some downstream processing) in Indonesia was invested in by Inco from Canada since the 1970s - now this come's under Vale (Brazilian mingin company). This started way back when usage was mostly for pig iron. For that, bash all you want but without putting an alternative investment the words ring a bit empty. And everything is about the full life cycle, you don't use a car for 1 month and ditch it, so not transitioning to EV is not the solution. Even with coal powered electricity, the combustion at the coal plant is surely still more favourable compared to IC engines...
This sounds so familiar to the documentary about Singapore destroying Southeast Asia by importing sand for reclamation damaging habitats around the region due to the dredging operation. Are the west suggesting that we should go to war and take over land from our neighbours by force rather than buying the sand from them? Who set the rules?
The resolution would be harvesting polymetalic nodules from the clarion clipperton zone. The Metals Company is a publicly traded company that has a license to explore this area, and will soon apply for a license to harvest these nodules
Newton's 3rd law is always in effect. For every action ...... you damn better believe that there is an equal and opposite reaction. For all of that energy that the lithium ion battery provides, something somewhere else must bear the cost for your luxury. Just like how none of us are any richer than in the past, but we have much more meat to eat so in a weird way we are "richer" than we were 100 years ago. 100 years ago it was just bread lines and grain lines. Today they make a fully grown chicken in 56 days. From egg to full sized meat producing chicken. And they it so effectively that they can keep driving the cost further and further down. To impossibly affordable levels. And who doesn't love fried chicken. That shit is addictive. Why does this matter? Well it is the law of equivalent exchange. That chicken that could live 12 years a full life, instead it only lives 56 days. But no body cares. No one knows. Because it is all hidden away. Just like Lithium Ion mining. Thank you bloomberg. We are another step closer to understanding how everything we do definitely has an impact good or bad. For the chickens.... I would argue that they are dying for the greater good of humanity. Because today, no one is revolting over chicken lines. Bread lines caused us all to revolt. You cannot sustain yourself on bread alone. But you can sustain yourself on cheap fried chicken or chicken sandwiches. No one is going to cause a revolution while we have cheap and fast growing meat available to the west.
it's not selling to the eu and the us as much as it is to china because of all the restrictions on the self processing in Indonesia. these EU and the us, i tell you are hypocritic, they about what they get out of even the deadliest situation
Nickel steel is used for armour plating. Other alloys of nickel are used in boat propeller shafts and turbine blades. Nickel is used in batteries, including rechargeable nickel-cadmium batteries and nickel-metal hydride batteries used in hybrid vehicles. Nickel has a long history of being used in coins. Why are batteries only targetted here?
This is makes me so upset. I'm Indonesian and i've been read a lot of informations on socmed or internet that give something like this, but there is no actions from goverment for regulations and many more aspect. What are the clean industrial environment the company from China want to achieve? Just a profit? Shame, very shame. Regulations about how do the works of safety issue must been priority for mining industry.
Kid: sponsored by Oil companies. Adult: How do you know? Kid: We are from the Z generation, we can even tell you what will be the dinner in White House tomorrow at 8 PM...
Read more about Indonesia's Deadly Mining Complex Powering the EV Revolution: www.bloomberg.com/features/2024-indonesia-sulawesi-nickel-fire/?srnd=homepage-asia&sref=zU1fOhDr?
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LiFePO4 batteries are cheaper than other lithium-ion batteries because they use iron instead of cobalt or nickel as the main component of the cathode material. Iron is more abundant and less expensive than cobalt or nickel.
These are the newer batteries, they are safer, hold more charge, and cheaper to manufacture.
Nickel and all metals are RECYCLABLE anyway.
What happens to all the "dead" car batteries?
Do we have the technology to recycle them? To what extent? 100%
If not, what happens to the non-recyclable waste?
Nickel is not even needed in the newest and most popular battery chemistry. Clickbait Bloomberg with hidden interests....
propaganda. coal and other mining activities are as bad. Additionally, EVs in the West are slowly transitioning away from nickel based batteries. Most EVs in China don't use nickel or cobalt.
@@HobbyOrganist LFP is cheaper and less prone to thermal runaway, but Li-ion battery with NMC has higher capacity with the same kg (higher energy density ~250 Wh/kg vs LFP's 150-160 or so). So it depends what kind of application is it required for.
LFP definitely is a win for stationary storage, but for EV which want to have long range with same weight / space constraint I don't think LFP has cracked it yet (say 80 kWh capacity requirement).
Lower end electric cars indeed use LFP, trading off capacity (only 40-50kWh) for its cheaper battery cost
Indonesia is where the US was in the early 1900s when Ford was building factories. Do you think Ford was thinking about the environment?
The one thing that well off people don't realize is that people who are poor don't give a f*ck about the environment if they are struggling to survive. They don't care, and neither would you. Anybody who looks down upon poor countries who are now starting to pollute and sell their resources are disconnected from reality and they are hypocrites.
These countries are doing now what the US and other Western countries have been doing for the past 150 years in order to become an advanced civilization.
If your family was barely getting by, I assure you that every single one of us would do the same and not think twice
Totally agree. Further as per them such conditions never ever exist in so called developed countries😊
global south exploited by elite commonly from the west
Today there is no place for ignorance and the Chinese mining corporations have the conditions to apply safety procedures. for the environment and humans. There is no reason for Chinese corporations to exercise their operations without safety just to save another penny at the cost of environmental health!
Agree!! Can you imagine industrial revolution (in 1800s Europe) happen without cutting down the trees or burning coal? hahahahha...
That's correct. Thank you for exposing the hypocrisy. People in the global south need to industrialised and make cash.
You should make a new content "The Dirty, Deadly Secret Behind Fossil Fuel Cars for 100 years"
It's a coal problem, not a nickel one. And Indonesia will swipe to clean energy. And, LFP battery (without nickel and cobalt) are coming. Byd and Tesla are the first to use it. Conclusion : how much money Bloomberg received from oil/gas industry ?
YES! This 100%. Why isn't anyone focusing on how amazing EVs are versus gas. If both EVs and gas cars started out right now, you would have to make the argument that you have to drill this black goo out of the earth on the far side of the world, transport it across the oceans, spend ridiculous amounts of energy refining it, then ship it via truck or pipeline to others parts of the country, bury it back into the ground and then have people pump out toxic gas into the atmosphere. EVs: install solar on your roof, charge up at home, go really fast nice and quiet, no maintenance.
Better ... The Dirty Little Secret When $35,000 Replacement Battery Pack On Your $85,000 EV Kraps Out _ 😂🎉
@@mikeshaferProvided you have $85,000 for an EV with no dealership maintenance and another $35,000 every 100,000 miles to send it back to Elondia for a new battery pack and service upgrade, while you hail Lyft for 8 weeks. "Come on, baby needs a new pair of _shoes!"_
Yeah, but then Bloomberg's oil company funding would disappear. Gotta make EVs the boogy man again, so they can get back to selling their oil
Two thirds of global nickel use goes into making stainless steel, of which the fossil fuel industry is a massive consumer.
Stainless steel is an absolute necessity, EV are not .
@@muktadirbhuyan7281 Unless you want to walk, EVs are a necessity.
...of which the American consumer is a primary consumer.!...
If you're going to be a Maoist, move to North Korea!
@@muktadirbhuyan7281EVs are a necessity but the current resource sourcing is flawed, that is the argument here. In fact the same is true about chocolates, mobiles phone and many more, the sourcing system is flawed but in those cases, it is improving.
Another thing is, BEVs are not the only EV technology, there is Hydrogen which is a much better technology but the infrastructure does not exist and it is still many decades away. Some cars and trucks do exist in market but they are sold in just few states in US and a few cities in UK
@@sondrejohansen48 I can agree with that, I am an advocate for PHEV which I own one it give 40km of electric range which covers my daily drive and for long drive I rely on the ICE engine. There is zero charging infrastructure where I live for a BEV is absolutely no go. People needs to understand Amarica is not the world and an EV is an absolutely unthinkable in third world country or a developing country due to cost and lack of infrastructure.
Can't believe Bloomberg fell for clickbait titles. Such low standards. This is a story of bad mining practices, government oversight, unsafe work conditions, poverty, and inequality. EV's are not the problem. Bad policy is the problem.
Without demand, there wouldn't be a need for supply. That's called interconnectedness. And without corporations bribing the government, there might not be so much corruption.
Correct. This is exactly what I'm thinking
Nickel is used to make stainless steel, turbine blades, high pressure / high temperature pipes, all kinds of things - why hang the story on EVs?
Ev's are unsustainable technology and also the electric grid cannot even handle 20% of all car's being electric, the grid would melt down from the current drain.
This is anti ev propaganda sponsered by big oil.
OK, after watching half of the clip, I got the idea. So this is to implied the critics to China for the safety problem in nickel industry in Indonesia. Let's imagine if Europian or American companies own the nickel mines instead of China. I bet nothing will be better, except that there'll be no more clips and news to report this "Read more about Indonesia's Deadly Mining...". We all know that everything in UA-cam would be "wrong" in those eyes if it relates to China unless we critisize China.
Exactly, one must look no further than the worker deaths and human rights abuses in Africa catalysed by Western oil giant operations in the continent.
but are they lying? I agree that western media are extremely biased, but the concerns raised are very valid, China cut cost so much they sacrifice wellbeing of locals in the area
This video is clearly made to discredit the biggest EV battery producer, right after the recent tariff hikes....come on 🇺🇸 you can do better than this.
They showed Tesla in the video.
And the Musk sycophant fan boi speaks up to defend the idol. 😂
@@beratnabodhi Some fan bois doesn't know that Tesla assembles in Shanghai too that's why.
Bloomberg is a private company, not an arm of the US. Government. And not all US citizens think alike.
us propaganda
Who controls Bloomberg? If you know the money behind Bloomberg, then you understand their reports.
It's a coal problem, not a nickel one. And Indonesia will swipe to clean energy. And, LFP battery (without nickel and cobalt) are coming. Byd and Tesla are the first to use it. Conclusion : how much money Bloomberg received from oil/gas industry ?
is the report plausible?
Tell us more then
"If you know the money behind Bloomberg". I know the money behind Bloomberg, and a simple Google search can let everybody know: Bloomberg is a privately held company. It is majority owned by its founder, Michael Bloomberg, who owns 88% of the company. Bloomberg is primarily a financial news organization, but also reports on general business and economic news. Bloomberg's primary income comes from the 'Bloomberg Terminal', a kind of connected screen that gives its customers real-time stock quotes and a multitude of other real-time financial information.
If America is the world biggest EV producer, then we will never see such report from Bloomberg... probably nothing 🤦♂
Yea, nobody ever shits on America ... /s
Or if the names of the plants are not chinese
The US trying to blackwash EVs and green tech. It's pathetic
It literally showed Tesla and ford . What are you talking about ?
@@ihmpallTesla in Fords are not made in Indonesia.
Do you know where their metals are sourced from? They was zero information discussed or presented in the video beyond, "hey look at how polluted this third world heavy I did trial sector is."
Have you been to Fort McMurray in Canada, where they mine and process oil shake? It's far more polluted than this place and stretches across thousands of square miles.
Seems like a report sponsored by Oil companies.
Like how we hear about every single EV fire and almost nobody learns that EVs are actually far LESS likely to catch fire
so true.. even the framing around health and safety is misdirecting 😂😂
Bloomberg content for sale
That's idiotic. Where in this video is there ANY defense of oil companies at all?
It's a coal problem, not a nickel one. And Indonesia will swipe to clean energy. And, LFP battery (without nickel and cobalt) are coming. Byd and Tesla are the first to use it. Conclusion : how much money Bloomberg received from oil/gas industry ?
Let’s not pretend Indonesia was some leading figure in preventing destruction of the environment either before or outside of this industry
Exactly. Working conditions were abysmal for centuries
@@gamesndrinks The issue is that there are more than enough profits to put more effort into safety. It's sad.
If you dont consume the Oil somebody else will do that.
💩 crazy people everywhere...
That's no excuse to cause further destruction.
Well then give them a chance, invest and build production centres there rather than just mining and importing their natural resources. Not just china but also western countries
When the cars are made by China, suddenly the West has concerns about the environmental cost. Where was this concern 40 years ago?
Relax it’s not anti China propaganda, it’s pro oil propaganda
Yet many of the EVs from China use batteries than contain Zero Nickel & Cobalt.
this is a typical "but at what cost" article, probably sponsored by some oil giant
It's a coal problem, not a nickel one. And Indonesia will swipe to clean energy. And, LFP battery (without nickel and cobalt) are coming. Byd and Tesla are the first to use it. Conclusion : how much money Bloomberg received from oil/gas industry ?
yes, possible.
but is it a lie?
@@EwaRiro no, not a lie. But as some commenter from Indonesia pointed out here, these companies are there for decades and these issues are there since beginning. So the real question is why western media were not interested in reporting about that till now?
He said the government recently banned the export of the raw ore as they want to force companies to build smelters there and have higher profit from it.
Also Nickel is used in multitude of applications, so why choosing EVs? Especially when battery manufacturers are actually moving away from Nickel based batteries and significantly reduced the amount of it in the batteries in last 5 years.
Everything is pointing to this being sponsored by someone who don't like EVs🤷♂
Or by Western Nickel mining companies who had to close down mines because their operating costs are too expensive for the current market price.
Can you show a coal mine or oil drilling sites? This is just plain BS....
I'm just here to read the comments
Video sponsored by the oil industry...
It's a coal problem, not a nickel one. And Indonesia will swipe to clean energy. And, LFP battery (without nickel and cobalt) are coming. Byd and Tesla are the first to use it. Conclusion : how much money Bloomberg received from oil/gas industry ?
Yes I totally agree 😂😂👌
For local people, they are very afraid of poverty and hunger. They prefer to work in mines, even though the risks are high. This happens in all Nickel, Gold, Copper, Bauxite, Sulfur and Coal mining locations in Indonesia.
Do you know the risks of Coal mining in Kalimantan? Gold and Copper mines in Papua? Or the Sulfur mine on Mount Ijen? All situation are the same.
its a problem because china is benefiting
The Western Motive: When you can't win them, destroy them !
Yea right the west is so perfect 😂😂😂
@@stereomachine You're right !
The West constantly criticizes itself for failing to defeat China
yea...its a problem that america dog doesnt control and take money out of this
This video sponsored by Oil Industry.
It's a coal problem, not a nickel one. And Indonesia will swipe to clean energy. And, LFP battery (without nickel and cobalt) are coming. Byd and Tesla are the first to use it. Conclusion : how much money Bloomberg received from oil/gas industry ?
More pro oil cr*p. There are about 15 new batteries in the pipeline, and most of them don't use nickel or lithium.
Tesla uses LFP batteries which contains neither nickel nor cobalt, both of which are supply-constrained and expensive. As with lithium, human rights and environmental concerns have been raised concerning the use of cobalt. Environmental concerns have also been raised regarding the extraction of nickel.
Just google those mines, they are absolutely tiny. The environmental impact is negligible in comparison to the massive mines we have in the west or to what other countries do to the rain forest. Absolutely biased and paid report.
Coal-fired production and tailings.
if only Bloomberg was truly an environmental defender and not a profit fighter.
Odd that there's no mention of LFP batteries, which are rapidly becoming mainstream and don't use any Nickel at all (and no Cobalt either).
There wouldnt be a sensational hit piece on EVs if we talked about LFP 😂
Tesla moved to LFP batteries. "LFP contains neither nickel nor cobalt, both of which are supply-constrained and expensive. As with lithium, human rights and environmental concerns have been raised concerning the use of cobalt. Environmental concerns have also been raised regarding the extraction of nickel."
We will coup who we want."
~Elon Musk
They weren't the first ones 😂
lithium mining is just as bad
@@beratnabodhi LOL nice out of context quoting of a public TWEET. He's just referring USA long history of Coups in south America.
@squibbelsmcjohnson The argument of "Have enough to last" is a logically fallacy. When battery cell chemistry keeps changing and the raw material used keeps changing. We're not going to keep consuming the same resource forever unlike crude oil until supply collapse.
What about the 100 years of destruction when West started the oil revolution era
Lol at the idea that the destruction from oil ceased at some point
Oil company paid propaganda has started.
The oil companies know full well electric vehicles are not their competition, and EVs are a fabulous distraction from the real problem of a society based around ownership of an automobile. The longer that problem remains hidden, the more *everyone* in business wins.
What a beatup story 84% of nickel is used in alloys and metal plating only 15% of Nickel is used to make batteries (of all types including disposable and phones etc) less than 5% is used to make car batteries.
More than 95% of this story has zero to do with electric cars.
Poor reporting to the extreme.
Australia has enough nickel for the entire world for 500 years atleast, but it costs 1% more than indonesia, so BHP wont dig it up.
It's a money losing business in Australia, that's why there's not a lot of mining going on there.
Doomberg for real
That was the easiest propaganda that can be detected in recent years. 200 years, west mined these places without question. If any brand than republican(for the far left) tesla or byd won the race, this video wouldnt exist :D
I have never owned a car this is my contribution to a greener planet.
Hey, we’ll take it
that is great bro 😂
The More organized you Are , The better your life will Be
This is the way.
THAT is the correct response to all this madness. Stop buying new cars fix up the old ones. get the technology sorted before iterating and smashing the globe in the process.
Indonesian nickel industry had been in existence for decades long before electric 🚗 so exposing dirty secrets of nickel on EV is misleading. Remember COVID 19 shutdown. Cities around the world had their air quality vastly improved when gas guzzlers weren’t polluting
Shoddy unethical mining practices in third world countries only ever exist in EV suppliers!!!
sure bud
@@Entertainment- Quite sure it was sarcastic. As clearly EVs is not is the biggest consumer of these resources.
Mining of any sort is dangerous and environmentally hazardous, do NOT spread FUD on EVs just because 3rd world countries do NOT care about safety or environment, instead better suggest how to improve mining conditions in these countries! What do you suggest?? Better burn fossil fuels for next centuries??
yes using fossil fuel directly cuts out all the middle men. NOTHING ON EARTH CAN BE BUILT OR DONE WITHOUT FOSSIL FUEL. WE HAVE PERFECTED IT. TIME TO ENJOY IT.
@@storytimewithunclekumaran5004 It doesn't cut out the middle men. You still have to mine the fuel. And the overall environmental impact has been studied over and over. And in basically every respect air quality, water quality, land use, bio diversity, climate change ... even with all of the cost of building batteries and generating the electricity for them they still end up cleaner.
@@peterisawesomepleaseBullshit.
@@dogger37JC i mean do your own research. Kinda hard to give reasonable good evidence in youtube commetns. I forget can you even post links.
Now do Oil industry+ Cobalt that goes into the oil industry, bet you didn't know they use the vast majority of cobalt.
And then do one about how much taxpayers subsidies this industry that waste 70%+ of all energy to get to the 30% that gets turned into oil products
Current status of Deep Water Horizon Oil Spill.
Or how about deforestation for Palm oil for Green Diesel.
Use of this cobalt in the fossil fuel industry ?
Don’t expect that kind of fairness from Bloomberg.
unfortunatelly nikel from here mostly use for china steel manufacture not ev battery
This short documentary is proudly sponsored by American oil companies 😂
and the CIA
Freeport is doing the same thing with cooper in Papua. Bloomberg is not saying anything. It is probably because Freeport is a US company not Chinese company.
Not perfect, but your title against EVs is misleading: we need to build a battery once not every time we need to drive...
no mention of the Grasberg mine? Freeport-McMoRan, an American mining company, has been causing an environmental disaster by dumping toxic waste into the river
this is no ordinary mine, it's one of the largest in the world, and the US government is well involved in the deal to lease the mine
As though oil extraction including from shale and refining are cleaner than this.
DANKE FÜR DIE INFO ❤❤❤❤❤❤
still better than oils. Did you get paid by oil companies to make this video?
Lies!! they can survive without nickel mines. They produce art and have beautiful culture. Do you own an EV? have you been to Indonesia? Stop telling yourself that rubbish.
It’s important to talk about these things, but one imagines if Bloomberg will ever make the same videos about the COUNTLESS crimes and abuses US companies and the US government commit every day
As countries become wealthier they tend to care more about the environment.
Caring about the distant future is a luxury that those just hoping to eat today do not have
This has often been true regarding national policy, but on a personal level, research shows there isn't a strong correlation. 16-25 year olds surveyed on opinions about climate change and the environment had some surprising findings:
1) India, the Philippines, and Brazil topped the list for percentage of young adults who agreed with the statement "Humanity is doomed" (again, this was when they were surveyed in the context of climate change & environmental health). These countries far exceeded the global average while Finland, the US, France, and Australia, to point to four examples, fell below the global average. These countries are also highly susceptible to the risks of climate change and land degradation.
2) Philippines, Brazil, Portugal, and India also topped the list for percentage of young adults who agreed with the statement "The future is frightening". Again, certain countries like Finland and the US were near the bottom of the list.
3) Brazil and the Philippines again topped the list for those who agreed with the statement "I'm hesitant to have children".
It's actually surprising how many people in low-income and middle-income countries care about the environment. Sometimes their concerns do manifest in national policies that are more aggressive on climate change & environmental health than what we find in many high-income countries.
Go Indonesia, one side story being pushed by those who are fear of Indonesia strength. Keep it going
Internal combustion vehicle sales peaked in 2017. Your campaign to turn back the clock will fail.
Meanwhile...the Tesla Model 3 and Model Y RWD use LFP batteries with absolutely NO nickel or cobalt in them.
About 60% of Tesla EVs use high-nickel batteries, including 4680's that power the Cybertruck!
Bloomberg is criticizing Indonesia for forcing Chinese and other nickle producers to set up processing plants inside Indonesia. And yes there have been industrial accidents and polution. But the econom of that 1 island where there's nickle grew 600% in 5 years. People can have running water, electricity, a refrigerator. And as they get richer both the pollution and the accident rate will drop, as it has in China. At a growth rate of 600% in 5 years, wait another 5 years and they will have airconditioning and driving the low cost EV's from China. Europe wants Indonesia to sell raw nickle ore to be processed in Europe. This policy is designed keep Indonesians perpetually poor. Indonesia is doing absolutely the right thing for the people of Indonesia. This is a stark difference between European/US investment policy and China investment policy. Western policy is to exploit the global south for raw materials and keep the global south poor. China's goal is to build up the economy of the country so that they will be customers for more advanced products later and increase their trade with China.
$1 is like 15k rupiah...$824 for a life...that's not even rent money in LA
Superb reporting from Bloomberg! Thank you❤
The mining companies can do much better to prevent or reduce health/env hazards here. Still EV's causing less pollution in the cities makes it worth the risk. It's the early days of battery industry and frankly much better than early days of gas industry. A small price to pay for a better and greener future. What is the alternative? Again, better processes and regular checks are necessary to make working conditions safer.
I was expecting you to show the technical limitations of electric vehicles but these stories of the dangers of the industry as people work in developing countries to support EVs
I'm pretty sure these concerns will not be brought to life if it were the EU corporations exploiting those Indonesian mines. This is after all a geopolitical case above all else. 😅
Surprise surprise, another big media EV hit piece. I can almost see the dark money flowing on this one, it oozes out like the sticky crude it is.
Nice hit piece
Okay, now do a video comparing all of the negative impacts between nickel mining and refining versus all oil mining and refining (just for internal combustion engine purposes). I'll wait... Oh, wait... You won't do that because then you completely use the emotionally motivated purpose for producing politically-titled videos like this.
Where are they saying this is better than fossil fuels?
@@dogger37JC In the title. "The Dirty, Deadly Secret Behind Electric Cars." That title was specifically chosen so that people who are politically aligned with "anti-EV" sentiment would be drawn to the video. Then, this video becomes a weaponized example for people who don't know anything to throw at other people who aren't well-read enough. And if Bloomberg is reading this, and you want to prove that that isn't the case, then just update the title to something that's both more factual accurate and less politicized, like, "Negative Externalities Which Arise from All Mining Resource Cultivation with a Focus on Nickel." Hmmm... Weird that they didn't go with that title. Almost like there was some kind of agenda involved...
@@laioren Nothing that you wrote answers my question.
@@dogger37JC You are incorrect. "Where are they saying this is better than fossil fuels?" Answer: "In the title."
Don't forget: The place where your house and your car port and your swimming pool are located was once forrest or farmland. How do you go from your house to your work place and to do shopping? By public transport or with your air polluting car?
LFP chemistry is the alternative.
This is one part of transition to EVs that we need to change the most, how we get basics materials.
Great video 😊
But this is precisely why the West outsourced the raw material/refining supply-chain to China in the first place.
Stainless steel is the largest end use for nickel, accounting for just under two-thirds of total consumption. Nickel is used as an alloying agent in the manufacture of both metal products that contain iron and those that do not.Feb 15, 2024
Wood Mackenzi: While stainless steel will continue to be the main first use for nickel, the major engine of demand growth over the next two decades will be batteries. From only 7% of the total market in 2021, we expect battery use to grow to 40% of nickel consumption by 2040...
Really nothing new here. If you think EVs are bad for the environment, just wait until you see how bad the oil industry has been! At least with EVs are are constantly innovating on better, more sustainable batteries. How much has oil changed in the past 100 years?
Will highly recommend everyone to finish the video before reading the comments section.
The impacts of Fossil Fuel extraction and mining is well documented. Contrary to the comment section, this video did not deny any of those impacts and did not even compare Electric versus Fossil Fuel.
This video is purely on the impacts of EV production. It is not saying that EVs are better, worse or different from Fossil Fuel
They tried to make this seem sooo bad but… should look into how shoes are made… or basically anything else. 100x worse. Go see how chickens are farmed…
😂😂😂😂 just laughing, although it's not thrown into the river, the Indonesian government has planted many trees, now we have investors from Korea and China, building factories and electric cars and motorcycles, it's normal if Indonesia becomes a battery factory, many accusations are made
This fluff piece was funded by the oil companies.
With the approval of the State Department, CIA, the Western Media conglomerates, and *_deep state_*
This hit piece is sponsored by big oil - don’t be fooled
Governments are usually in charge of regulating work place safety
Wish similar videos are made for Oil
America needs public transport, not electric vehicles
Americans need *_more money_*
Americans *_are getting poorer and poorer_*_ !_
Ok tell us chief how RURAL people miles away from cities are going to hop on mass transit?
Mass transit works in Europe so well because entire countries there are no bigger than many US states! The US has Millions of miles of rural roads far away from cities, it simply is not the same scenario
America used to have good public transportation but made a big mistake in choosing the mass private motoring society in the mid-20th century.
Then elected somebody will do that, easy
@@HobbyOrganistthe vast majority of people aren’t rural. So urban areas are where most progress can be made. Simple as that.
It's a bit misleading to describe nickel as 'crucial' for making EV batteries. While some EV batteries use nickel, many, if not most EV batteries do not use any nickel (or cobalt) at all, namely Lithium Iron Phosphate.
As Chinese, I m happy that ppl are gradually know the hypocrisy of westerners.
4 problems here, are under government control to fix: poor energy policy, poor environmental policy, poor worker safety policy, and poor health policy. They can fix it.
Simple, we in the third world invest the money for further economic growth to become developed countries, we can't afford to wait since our population getting older and will lead us to middle income trap if we fail to maximize growth
the solution is trying to live a more localized life
no opportunities cause no ubi
sis is happy w about 800$ payout cause she doesnt know any better
Who imagined that Bloomberg will criticise globalisation and has feeling for ecology?
Ice cars use the same minerals. Petroleum does way more damage overtime.
This is a bunch of FUD.
EV uses 6 times more .
The FUD is part and parcel of the Western Narrative
@@rohitroll2119 my point is that the nickel and metals being mined aren't exclusively for EVs. It's a hit piece.
@@rohitroll2119 LiFePO4 batteries are cheaper than other lithium-ion batteries because they use iron instead of cobalt or nickel as the main component of the cathode material. Iron is more abundant and less expensive than cobalt or nickel. So they wont be even USING nickel in them at all, which makes this "report" already outdated.
These are the newer batteries, they are safer, hold more charge, and cheaper to manufacture.
Nickel and all metals are RECYCLABLE anyway
@@gamesndrinks Besides- BOTH nickel and metals are valuable and RECYCLED at scrap yards anyway.
What happened to the west from promoting of EVs to denouncing EVs, the switch happened in the last 2years.
Wow! I am Indonesian. And Indonesia is VERY RICH!!! with Natural Resources. But the country is poor because Indonesians were not smart and the Leaders of the country were CORRUPT as hell and took advantage to enrich themselves. Hopefully they are smart enough to this time in doing business when it comes its Natural Resources.
Instead of blaming the nickel demand, blame the lack of safety regulations.
Suddenly the cars are bad when the US can't compete
Let's not forget that Indonesia didn't close its doors to anyone else willing to invest and shows how it can be done properly. Only now after massive Chinese investment did everyone cry foul.
Don't forget that one of the largest nickel mine (and some downstream processing) in Indonesia was invested in by Inco from Canada since the 1970s - now this come's under Vale (Brazilian mingin company). This started way back when usage was mostly for pig iron.
For that, bash all you want but without putting an alternative investment the words ring a bit empty.
And everything is about the full life cycle, you don't use a car for 1 month and ditch it, so not transitioning to EV is not the solution.
Even with coal powered electricity, the combustion at the coal plant is surely still more favourable compared to IC engines...
I hope that in the future, UA-cam will provide automatic video tagging based on comments, such as "trustworthy" and "misleading."
If there is someone to blame is the Indonesian government that doesn't have strict safety rules for these type of companies.
Yes, the US really cares about the environment in other countries. I can believe it.
None of this was ever mentioned in any sustainability report I’ve read.
This sounds so familiar to the documentary about Singapore destroying Southeast Asia by importing sand for reclamation damaging habitats around the region due to the dredging operation. Are the west suggesting that we should go to war and take over land from our neighbours by force rather than buying the sand from them? Who set the rules?
The resolution would be harvesting polymetalic nodules from the clarion clipperton zone. The Metals Company is a publicly traded company that has a license to explore this area, and will soon apply for a license to harvest these nodules
No mention of the deforestation or river pollution.
Newton's 3rd law is always in effect. For every action ...... you damn better believe that there is an equal and opposite reaction. For all of that energy that the lithium ion battery provides, something somewhere else must bear the cost for your luxury.
Just like how none of us are any richer than in the past, but we have much more meat to eat so in a weird way we are "richer" than we were 100 years ago. 100 years ago it was just bread lines and grain lines.
Today they make a fully grown chicken in 56 days. From egg to full sized meat producing chicken. And they it so effectively that they can keep driving the cost further and further down. To impossibly affordable levels. And who doesn't love fried chicken. That shit is addictive.
Why does this matter? Well it is the law of equivalent exchange. That chicken that could live 12 years a full life, instead it only lives 56 days. But no body cares. No one knows. Because it is all hidden away.
Just like Lithium Ion mining. Thank you bloomberg. We are another step closer to understanding how everything we do definitely has an impact good or bad. For the chickens.... I would argue that they are dying for the greater good of humanity.
Because today, no one is revolting over chicken lines. Bread lines caused us all to revolt. You cannot sustain yourself on bread alone. But you can sustain yourself on cheap fried chicken or chicken sandwiches. No one is going to cause a revolution while we have cheap and fast growing meat available to the west.
it's not selling to the eu and the us as much as it is to china because of all the restrictions on the self processing in Indonesia. these EU and the us, i tell you are hypocritic, they about what they get out of even the deadliest situation
Bloomberg Oil Company
It’s not necessarily EVs being the problem … it’s the same’ol wealthy/powerful taking advantage of the poor. Greed.
Nickel steel is used for armour plating. Other alloys of nickel are used in boat propeller shafts and turbine blades. Nickel is used in batteries, including rechargeable nickel-cadmium batteries and nickel-metal hydride batteries used in hybrid vehicles. Nickel has a long history of being used in coins. Why are batteries only targetted here?
Health and safety could be better.
This is makes me so upset. I'm Indonesian and i've been read a lot of informations on socmed or internet that give something like this, but there is no actions from goverment for regulations and many more aspect. What are the clean industrial environment the company from China want to achieve? Just a profit? Shame, very shame. Regulations about how do the works of safety issue must been priority for mining industry.
LiFePO4 Lithium Iron Phosphate. As the chemical formula dictates, has ZERO Nickel.
The whole world is already moving to LFP batteries which doesn’t contain Nickel
Kid: sponsored by Oil companies.
Adult: How do you know?
Kid: We are from the Z generation, we can even tell you what will be the dinner in White House tomorrow at 8 PM...