Thanks for shouting out my channel! Interesting discussion here around accessibility and customization. I wholeheartedly agree about the unskippable dialogue. I've ranted about this myself before. It's still not as bad though as it is in Brothership, which I'm currently playing. I appreciate the challenge suggestion, but it's actually quite similar to my Fewest Summons video. Have you seen that one? I'll shamelessly leave a link to it below. Here, I'm trying to avoid all echo summons, including the table. And almost all platforming sections can be completed without summoning any echoes. I summoned 36 echoes in that run (the actual minimum that I'm aware of is 33), and the differences if the table is treated as "free" would be: - Summons 1-7 can be done entirely with table as you showed in this video - Summon 14 is a table - Summon 17 could be skipped with a table staircase - Summon 18 could be avoided, probably with just a single table - Summons 19 and 20 (Hebra icicle melts) can be avoided as I showed in my No Echo Repeats video - Summon 29 (beetle mound) could be replaced with multiple tables (the reverse Armos bond might still be required) So that brings us to a minimum of 23 non-table echo summons required to beat the game. Fewest Summons challenge: ua-cam.com/video/qboIdfrz2Gw/v-deo.htmlsi=HyPh_KQRnr7KnpvI
So true what you said about Brothership - I feel like 90% of my time with that game is spent holding B and mashing A to fast-forward through the dialogue. And I wouldn't mind the dialogue or the cutscenes nearly as much (both in Echoes and in Brothership) if both games didn't have the same bland, surface-level themes. I get that "it's a children's game" but so what? (TotK, for instance, is also a children's game, but I find myself watching all the cutscenes even on my third playthrough, despite the fact TotK actually has a skip option!) I'm near the end of Brothership, but I can't bring myself to complete it. Just thinking about having to sit through an hour of corny dialogue on "the power of friendship" makes me nauseous.
I like Brothership but good lord they changed so many things from previous games that I just don't understand Why do you not control Luigi? Like he's an AI that follows you in this so you feel like you're playing as Mario with Luigi helping, rather than both Why is cancelling in battle tied to the B button instead of the L button like it was in every other game?? Why does everyone exposit at you endlessly when in the other games they'd poke fun at overdone exposition by having a character that talks for too long while the bros fall asleep?? Why. On Earth. Do I need a set of dudes to tell me what the strongest boots/hammer I have is when they literally just tell you what's at the bottom of the list. And why would I need a 5 minute conversation to understand this.
The same great man that created the FPS mods and a few other ones for Brothership also made a mod that allows you to fast forward the game at will using ZL. It's the only way to make Brothership playable for me!
Nintendo be like "you're having fun wrong!" The injured thumb part hit home for me. A few months ago I badly sprained my right wrist in a bicycle accident. It was extremely difficult to use a mouse. Steam let me rebind a spare controller's left stick to mouse inputs instead, so I could still play games (that didn't require fast reactions) with one hand. It made me think about how much some games require both hands to be in perfect working order.
Its quite an interesting contrast to see this game being showcased as the example of this lack of letting the players choose how to play because a main theme of the game is that you can play in your own way and solve puzzles in a different way from anyone else because there isn't just one right answer, and yet despite this focus on being able to play your own way, they still are not okay with anyone playing in any way that isnt their way and refuse to give customization for settings whether it be for easier controls, accessibility, or a challenge
Changing your controls through the switch ui itself is such a copout because it always fucks the menus and makes the on screen ui not match what you're pressing. It's nice to have, but it isn't good enough.
back in my day 90% of the games didn't had such autism like configuring controls. and even when it was there nobody cared. kids nowadays are retards. they can't even coordinate their hands to use the controls as they are.
It is kinda weird how few (accessibility) options Nintendo games have for how broadly appealing the games generally are. Even most indie games (who often don't have the capacity or budget to implement all the options they would like) offer way more options than Nintendo seems to do.
Nintendo is the only company I know of that actually goes out of their way to not be accessible. What other company would make a side scrolling platformer that has normal controls 99% of the time but then forces you to shake the shit out of a controller at two key moments & also any time an enemy grabs you?
I feel like when Miyamoto's biography comes out, we're going to see a passage like, "When I was a kid I loved playing with toys. One day my father saw me playing with a toy car and soldier, having them argue with each other. He came over, got down on one knee, and smacked me across the face saying 'Cars don't talk. If you don't play with that toy right, then I'm taking it away.' I want to give the kids of today the same experience that I grew up with via our products."
Oddly enough he's quoted saying that player freedom was important (at least early on). Even the very start of the first 1-1, you can go over or under or loop around to hit all of the blocks. This is a Nintendo problem, not a Miyamoto problem.
@@thekoifishcoyote8762 its 100% Shuntaro doing this we saw it happen the Moment Iwata Died and the TempCEO got into place listening to SHuntaro. Lawsuits out the ass and suddenly games take a NOSE DIVE into Railroads and Tutorials that never end.
As much as I love Iwata, his passing didn't suddenly change Nintendo to make more hand holdy games. One example can be seen in Skyward Sword and how it is well known to be infuriating with it's tutorials and that came out for the Wii. There is a long history of overbearing features in Nintendo games, it still amazes me that XC can have tutorials constantly popping up like a hundred hours in, but breath of the wild is way more hands off, with BotW coming out much later
I get the impression that Nintendo really wants to have a reputation of flawless games with no major glitches. They patch things left and right, stop selling old games that they can't really focus on supporting (hence the whole "why can't I buy gameboy games anymore, even on new consoles?" issue), and restrict the player's options (as more options just leads to more potential places that glitches can pop up). The fewer ways there are for someone to play a game, the easier it is for them to focus on making those specific ways as glitch-free as possible.
I completely agree, and they fail to realize that by doing these things, they are actively harming their users. It comes across as them both not caring about their users, and to take it even further, they come across as actively having contempt for their users. Accessibility is a must. It is literally the most basic way to improve the user experience, and literally allows more people to play their games. But they don't care, and I don't know they ever will.
The fact that Nintendo who very clearly are angling for the "we make games for everyone" title don't see the benefit of including what are rapidly becoming industry-standard acessibility and customization options is honestly embarrassing. I do hope they do start building in these support systems into their games but I won't hold my breath. Nintendo seems hell-bent on their prescriptivist view of how their games should be played these days.
um totk was a game like no other that made everyone in the game dev industry open there mouths with how complex it was as well how the heck it was working 😂😂😂😂
@@kostakonomi Nobody is saying Nintendo is incompetent, we're all saying that Nintendo doesn't give their players options that should be included for ease of use, enjoyment, accessibility, etc. Nintendo wants you to play their games a specific way and if you don't follow their path they hold active contempt for you.
Prescriptive is a great way to put it. I agree way more with a prescriptive view of gaming than an open one. Fundamentally, I want to play more how the developers want me to, than how I want to. For example, in literally the game subject of the video, I only used Link mode when breaking those dark webs and nothing else. The game gave me the opportunity to not use Swordfighter mode, and I took it. The game did not give me the opportunity to skip dialogue, and I am fine with that. They set the terms, I play within them.
@@AfutureV if there were more options for how to play the game, you could still play the game that way, but other people would also be able to play it the way they want to, which is strictly a better situation
I'm not sure where I've heard this but I've heard that the issues you pointed out are prevalent not only in Nintendo but in Japan in general. They have this notion that they know best when it comes to playing their games, therefor, things like Accessibility Options are not present because they deem it not necessary for playing the game the way they intended it. Again, I might be wrong and it might be a Nintendo specific issue, but the fact remains that they are so anti-player with their game designs because they think they know the best way to experience their own games
As far as I'm aware, that is a general problem in Japan, not just Nintendo, and not even just Japanese games. I'm gonna grossly oversimplify here so please take this with a grain of salt, but they tend to not acknowledge or discourage individuality. This isn't limited to things like the clothes you wear or what food you like, it includes things like having disabilities or special needs. There is sort of an undertone of either blame or ignore the problems of the individual, especially if they get in the way of the wants/needs of the many.
it's not technically a nintendo specific issue, as it does relate to a japanese cultural element, but that element requires one to treat game production as the providing of a service. let me explain: if you were to order tea in japan at a restaurant they will serve it to you one way and one way only: usually without anything added to it. There is an intent behind the service and the creator of the service wishes you to enjoy the service as they provided it. This is not necessarily a bad thing, as, --again, for example-- adding sugar or milk or whatever to said tea would, by that nature, be changing the service that has been provided, and thus you are no longer experiencing the service as it was given to you, which some people may consider as rude. Companies like Nintendo and Game Freak seem to treat the production of games as a service they provide to the public, rather than an art piece that can have multiple different ways to be enjoyed by multiple different people. (side note: this is similar to the contrasting ways of interpereting literature and media; Authorial Intent vs Death of the Author) Conversely, japanese game company FromSoft (makers of Dark Souls) *does not* have this view of games as a service provided, as the only glitches or exploits that have ever been patched from their games (as far as I'm aware) have been those that legitimately cause interference with the enjoyability of the game. TLDR; Nintendo thinks games aren't art they produce, but instead services they provide. (Which kinda explains why they are so against fan projects --beyond just legal reasons-- and emulators, as they likely consider such things as alternate ways for people to be provided the services they want to provide to you)
Authorial intent is more important than accessibility. People do not demand movies remove flashing lights scenes just because some people can have terrible health reactions to them. Why are video games treated like toys before art?
@@nickf2571I think your comment is completely backwards. Presenting a specific curated vision where the player can not modify much beyond the intended experience IS Art, as opposed to giving you a playground for you to do whatever you want on it. It would be like saying the Louvre has no art because they do not offer crayons for you to scribble on their paintings. No, They set the art as is, you are there to appreciate it. Now, how you interpret that is up to you. FromSoft has patches that go beyond what you said.
@@AfutureV What use is a game if you cannot play with it? You're supposed to be able to have fun with it. Yes, it's art. But art is subjective. It's not a set thing; A painting may be supposed to look like something but that doesn't mean you're not allowed to see anything else in it. So why does that philosophy not carry over to games?
Yeah. From another angle, the move Nintendo has been making towards making it impossible to mash through dialogue has caused me a lot of pain, as someone who *simply reads really fast*. I can skim a paragraph of text in about half a second, so if a game doesn’t allow me to mash through dialogue, it thereby condemns me to stare blankly at the screen as text slooooowly scrolls by at like a third of my natural reading pace. Even if the game lets me speed up the scroll speed, the fastest options are always still too slow. It’s agonizing.
The injured thumb thing strikes a chord with me. I have tendon issues that are gradually becoming worse, and games with a lot tapping over a longer period used to be difficult to me as a child, painful for me as young adult, and now as a mature adult they are just legitimately impossible for me to play at all.
It's especially frustrating because most often just holding the button in question would be more convenient, more consistent, more enjoyable and overall just the better choice. Making people tap tap tap tap tap away at the same button for minutes on end is just not fun.
@@Beremor yeah, like terraria moving away from autoswing being a weapon-specific thing, to a general option, none of the non-autoswing weapons are OP with autoswing, it's just needless annoyance
This is a major issue in many Nintendo games, really. In the Splatoon franchise in particular, there's two entire weapon classes that are completely locked out to people who have RSI or otherwise risk wrist/digit strain. They've known about the problem since they released in 2016, yet have refused to add any option to make them easier to use. For as appealing as Nintendo's games can be, they're increasingly showing a borderline disdain for the people actually playing them.
Same. I hurt my left thumb playing too many games, and have a pinched nerve root on the right which causes reduced circulation, so now I have to be extremely picky and careful about how I play. And Nintendo's policy on it, like with so many other things, is to just give a middle finger to their players.
saying he's implies "returned" is an adjective, therefore it is grammatically correct only if you take returned as an adjective and thus it implies that Ceave has over 500 Cosmere breaths and needs to consume another one each week or he will die, which has... interesting implications
i remember one of the nintendo dev, i think it was someone on the splatoon 2 team(?) comparing their games to sushi. And how in japan you dont go into a sushi restaurant and tell the chef how to make the sushi in a way you want for you, you let the chef make it the way the chef wants for you. I feel this has only gotten stronger since then.
@@nathanblackburn1193 i see the point about curating an experience, but i think that with accessibility and control mapping specifically it's closer to a chef refusing to take into account allergies to certain replaceable ingredients
@@nathanblackburn1193 Customer: Hi i would like a steak. Gives you a Rubber Boot of a steak Customer Can you cook it right this time? Chef: You don't know how to cook. no YOU EAT OR LEAVE! Restaurant has no more Customers.
Funny, a comment showed up right above yours that discusses it and has quotes, even links an article. So yeah, EcclesZero and by extension me, know what you mean
"So the table is set." "...was off the table." "The tables had turned." 😆 Love all the puns and thoughtful insights about how Nintendo's design affects usability.
i dont normally like being the person to point out a famous youtuber being on another channel but i have to seeing you just made me do the biggest double take ever
@@CarrotFarmer yes a second channel. You do realize the two are completely separate right? Plus he didn’t announce he was going to leave this one just that he’d make another one
THANK YOU for putting accessibility in focus in this video! an important adage comes to mind: any person can become disabled at any time. what options may be useless to you today could become the only way you can play a game tomorrow. a lot of games have come out that i would like to play but cannot because of chronic tendonitis - webfishing comes to mind in particular. mashing buttons is REQUIRED and if you cannot do that repetitive motion you have to use outside mods to be able to play. i find that very sad and discouraging. accessibility in games is SO important. i also appreciate some of the other perspectives in this video i didn't even think of, like being able to warp places to route challenge runs more easily! that's proof that there's an infinite tapestry of human experience that touches games, and with more options, more of those experiences can be enjoyed to their fullest. great stuff.
they actually added an autoclicker to vanilla webfishing a few weeks back check the settings But yeah accessibility options, important. Admittedly my main game Geometry Dash isn't really well suited to that considering its already one-button gameplay but like yeah it is important
As someone who also requires accessibility options sometimes, I find it sadder to think that a developer has to compromise their vision just because some users want to their work as clay to mold themselves. If a developer put button mashing on purpose on a game, I think it is very arrogant to demand them to change their game just because someone can not play it. I do not believe everyone is entitled to play every game.
Yeah, while it makes sense to push bugfixes for problems that ruin a 'normal' player's experience, a bug that only people who _want_ to run into it experience doesn't require a fix.
SO true dude, as someone with hand issues, im pretty much forced off of all the games I used to enjoy, turn based RPG's that can be played one handed are all thats really accesible right now. Would love more companies to take accesibility settings more seriously
Your issues with Nintendo describe their "STOP HAVING FUN WRONG!" philosophy perfectly. You have to play their games their way, and only their way, and you'll like it - or else. Look at the Metroid Prime speedrun community - Nintendo wouldn't leave them alone either, patching glitch after glitch in the post-GameCube releases just to spite them.
Exactly.Nintendo has a very strong philosophy that says "YOU SHALL PLAY OUR GAME THIS WAY OR YOU SHALL NOT PLAY IT AT ALL". This is shown in how they design games without options and how they crack down on and send cease and desists to anyone using modded consoles or games for competitions like tournaments. I don't know if it's egotistical or foolhardy but it is turning away many current and future players that could come to endure their games if they simply adapted more to what video game players not want by need.
Think it could be a cultural thing, but it's 2024 and everyone else is moving with the times so there's not really any excuse. Certain other things annoy me too, like their stubbornness when it comes to their music. Finally they gave us a way to listen on their terms, but only with a dripfeed of OSTs for no apparent reason, and without crediting composers :/
Hehe, speedrunning is something else. I know that there is an eternal debate in the speedrunning community whether exploting glitches is a valid strategy or not. Some people feel like it's fair game; other consider glitches no better than cheat codes. That's why there's usually categories on leaderboards for "glitched" and "glitchless" speedruns. I myself am one of those who dislikes glitches. And I know that if I was to ever become a game developer and create a game that people speedrun, I'd totally follow the speedrunner forums and patch everything ASAP, just to mess with people. 😁 Though I'd also give access to all the old versions, just to be fair. 🙂
@@vilx7259 There's a big issue with the "glitches are like cheat codes" argument, being that a lot of glitches require a lot of skill and good game knowledge as to how they work to use them well. Cheat codes are just codes, you just know them and they work. Game devs can obviously patch what they like, but if it's just to mess up speedrunners, I feel it's usually pointless, unless it makes speedruns more interesting (like removing warps to the end credits, but keeping things that skip long waiting sequences, or cool and difficult quick kills on bosses). Giving access to older version is awesome though and is something I think should be done more often :3
@@epicgameruwu9907 I know of this "skill argument" too, but to me it doesn't hold water - it doesn't matter how difficult it is to enter a cheat code, it's still a cheat code. To me the main reason why cheat codes are bad is not because they make the game too easy (you could just add a category to the leaderbords then), but because they fundamentally alter the game, and it's not the same game anymore. But, again - I totally acknowledge that this is a subjective question, and your viewpoint is completely valid too. From a developer's point of view though - a bug is a bug. And speedrunners are the best and most thorough testers ever. 🤠 That said, sometimes I think there are such interesting bugs (like the play-as-link bug in the video), that they totally deserve to be made into a feature.
Hello Ceave, just so you know, you don't need the linking ability to make compact stairs of tables : put a table, push it once, put a table on top, you will have a compact stair.
I think Ceave is becoming the Hbomberguy of the Nintendo community with how many times a video's topic takes a hard left directly into a ditch. ...okay, well the thumbnail and title have been changed so this no longer applies. Everyone unlike this comment.
Sadly the only answer to some of the concerns with nintendo's current way of doing things is game modding. For example, I was very happy to find a patch that removed the annoying blur effect the day I bought the game. I find it really unpleasant and at times headache-inducing so I'm not sure if I'd have finished the game without it. It's a shame that minor details like this due to a lack of in-game options can cause a lot of people to be unable to enjoy games they otherwise would really like.
Great video, with a really important point about accessibility. People think of disabilities as something that affect a few unlucky people, not something most people will have to deal with at some point in their lives. There's an interview with a Nintendo designer where they talked a bit about their philosophy of not having options. This is about not being able to choose maps or when to play Salmon Run in Splatoon 2: "In Japan, there's a sense of, 'We're making this thing for you, and this is how we think this thing is better enjoyed.' This is why, in Splatoon, the maps rotate every couple of hours. And the modes change. 'I bought this game, why can't I just enjoy this game the way I want?' That's not how we think here. Yes, you did buy the game. But we made this game. And we're pretty confident about how this game should be enjoyed. If you stick with us, and if you get past your initial resistance, you're going to have the time of your life with this game. You're really going to love it." Interviewer: "You think you know what we want better than we know what we want?" "We think we know what you don't know you want." That's just an excerpt, there's more context in the full quote (and the TED talk mentioned in it): www.nintendolife.com/news/2017/09/splatoon_2_designer_explains_why_the_maps_rotate_and_salmon_run_is_time-limited
And here I thought it was a logistical solution to focus players on the same maps or game modes. If you do salmon run at any time, you might miss the other players (assuming it was not a popular game mode), so focusing the players into specific time slots helps avoid empty lobbies. But apparently that's not the case, they just "know better" than I do on how to play the game. No wonder they hate mods and speed running.
@mirrikybird I'm sure they were thinking about something like that when they made the call, they don't do it arbitrarily. But their priorities can be pretty wack lmao. I'm very glad they changed it for 3
@@EcclesZero to be honest, outside of those very common complaints (so stuff like the news being unskippable, salmon run not being on 24/7), they have not expanded any of the options in that game whatsoever
@@jakett2216they treat multiplayer games like they do single player games i think. Or more accurately they refuse to add features to released games without DLCs
@@usernametaken017 Oh they do add features, they just add them in at a GLACIAL pace and usually it's just basic functionality. Like when splatoon 3 released, there was an invite feature but you literally couldn't invite ppl individually for some dumb fucking reason, it just pinged your entire friend list (like are we fucking serious???). So they went back and added in this feature where if you type in a keyword, you can play in a pb with others using that same keyword (cool but not the cleanest solution). Ngl the whole series has just been plagued by this sorta thing. People will complain and then months or even years down the line, they'll then patch it
This is only part of the problem you brought up - but man, I hate how bug fixes are treated by people (particularly but not unlimited to Nintendo). Fixing bugs that effect the casual experience (crashes, softlocks, options or QOL breaking, things you'd run into without meaning to) is good, but going out of the way to fix something that people only ever really trigger if they're purposefully trying to do it... why? I really like how Toby Fox tackled something like this. In Deltarune Chapter 2 there's a bug that could be done when transitioning screens. It was used in speedruns, but it could also be done quite easily by accident. He patched it so it could be done, but only if you're holding a specific button, reducing the chance of it hindering a casual playthrough but still usable by speedrunners. Also, thank you so so much for mentioning disability and accessibility. This is such an important topic.
Man, I hate when devs patch super cool glitches that literally *nobody* is coming across accidentally, especially when they could’ve reintroduced the bug as a feature because it doesn’t break the game, like, why not introduce playing as link as a feature instead of only patching out the glitch that made it possible, maybe it could’ve been a new game+ option
I'm reminded of how Link became right-handed for the wiimote. I remember getting into arguments with people who said this wouldn't affect anything and that the games would play just fine if I used the wiimote in my left hand, because I'm just not one of those ambitextrous lefties and so I need to do precision movements with my left hand. The thing is, if the design was actually that intuitive and fluid, I don't think they would have NEEDED to change Link. I don't think they would have had to flip the world of Twilight Princess, and I think I would have enjoyed Skyward Sword a bit better where those precise movements really mattered. They changed it because they KNEW it would give right-handed players a better experience, and so I automatically knew I was not going to get the BEST experience. And that much was true -- it did affect the immersion for me. They could have gone an extra step to include the ability to use either hand and let Link swap, but they didn't. They did what works for "most." That's when Link stopped being the "link" between the player and the game, for me. Meh, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Why make games accessible, anyway? Why not less accessible? How about a game where you can only succeed if you can wiggle your ears and were born with hitchhiker thumbs! If we're going down this path, at least make it fun!
Nintendo's been min maxing the day one user score for quite some time now. It's in their best interest that you have as few options as possible, so that people don't accidentally muck something up when they play, or lose sight of what they're doing. Back in the day, it meant clever level design and framing. Now a days, it means strict iron shoes heat wielded to the train car you're in. Nintendo games are still really good, but I hate how much time they insist on wasting, fun things they insist on breaking over their knee. They found a formula that works, but it works less the further you go. Thankfully for them, you only have to love the game the first time
This game did not have the problem but related to accessibility: small text in gaming. I don't have a huge TV and my TV is a little too far away from my couch. This isn't a problem for movies or TV. But in most games, even games with a "larger text" option, I have to get up and walk to the screen to read tiny menu elements. Nobody notices this because most gamers are apparently using a PC monitor and sitting about 6 inches away from it. They'll notice it in their 50s. Worse, often turning on "larger text" breaks the games in other ways. If I do this in No Man's Sky, some menus become unusable because they just stupidly scale things up with no concern as to whether they'll still fit on the screen. In menus, elements don't get larger and can't scroll so text gets clipped and becomes unreadable.
Btw the table% run on 1.0 consists of one non-table echo placement, being a sign used to wrong warp into null’s body. The only notable thing that happens inside null’s body would be the erroneous use of swordfighter form to damage and kill Null’s underwater phase
I saw a youtuber (shoutout to Bringle, amazing guy) playing the new Mario and Luigi RPG recently, and he opened the 'options' menu in the game to find only this: Rumble On, or Rumble Off. This is a serious problem and I'm glad somebody is bringing it up!
i cant stand the railroading in that game like FREAKING 6 hours of Tutorial COME ON. I never got out of that hell tutorial into the "good Parts" FFS even MGS4 and KH2 have shorter cutscenes and tutrials COMBINED than Brother ships waste of my TIME.
You bring up a great point about Nintendo's lack of accessibility options and game intent. One thing that annoyed me to no end in Zelda EOW was the inability to disable the mini map. Lately I've been enjoying running through games as blind as possible which means no map use or warping. I feel it creates a more pure experience but I could not get that because of the lack of an option.
I was originally expecting the "problem with modern Nintendo" to be that they're "too handhold-y" with their design compared to how they used to be, but the approach called out by this video certainly applies as well.
im glad you mentioned how annoying and frustrating it is when nintendo patches glitches and doesnt let you download older versions, especially for speedrunners. im not ever expecting them to address that issue because its nintendo, but it feels like a ridiculous issue in the first place since its not like its harming anyone
This is the reason I've started calling Nintendo "the Apple of gaming" because both companies are very strict on allowing you to use their product in ONLY the exact way they intended, and any deviation is to be punished severely. When I got Echoes of Wisdom, the first thing I did was open the settings, because that's what I usually do with new games, and I found the depth of field effect very irritating (I don't have any vision problems, it just hurt my eyes), only to find NOTHING. I first realized this issue with Nintendo when I was playing Splatoon 3 and decided to participate in one of the challenge events. The event was rollers and brushes only, but everyone had insanely buffed speed. The whole match was everyone rolling around at the speed of sound and it was THE MOST fun I've had playing Splatoon. I thought "Why don't they let players do this normally??" Halo Infinite allows you to screw with the gravity and friction to create the dumbest matches out there? Why can't I open a lobby for me and my friends to play a round with bombs only and infinite ink? While they're at it, just let me queue for a random match on any map in any game mode! I love Splatoon's map rotation system, but sometimes the only maps and modes available suck and I just have to come back 2 hours later hoping I can finally enjoy the game
Absolutely agree with everything you've said about accessibility options, but... The switch actually comes packed with its own universal button rebinding system, tucked away in its settings menu. It's quite nice for "no xxx action" challenge runs or just to mess around with in your fave games :p
Nintendo's anti-consumer behavior really do be terrible for the life of their games. They've been slowly removing accessibility options, patching glitches, putting up invisible walls and forced checkpoints when people find skips, and generally being no-fun-allowed for ages. Then going after people who post mods, parodies, and non-profit fangames as if those things were actively burning a hole in their pockets. It makes no sense. I'd love to be able to enjoy Nintendo games, I think they're whimsical and the different franchises are cool. But I can't in good faith pay top dollar for a game with no accessibility options or replayability when I can go on steam and get five or six really good games for the same price, and from devs who aren't ass to their players and content creators. The only way I've been 'playing' Nintendo games the last some years is vicariously through challenge players like Ceave. But if they're going to be so adamant about controlling how people play then eventually even the diehard fans will die out, which is really sad. Heck, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if someone at Nintendo saw this and decided to remove table echo's ability to damage non-player creatures and entities just to put a stop to anyone trying this. 'S a bummer.
Honestly I agree with you about how Nintendo Forces us to play games the way they want us to play. I wish they gave us more customization with how we play their games but they just say no. This is kinda why I haven’t really been into playing Nintendo games lately because a lot of other games give you a lot more customization and options
While the lack of basic options in 2024 is simply unacceptable, I will say that given Nintendo's history with security vulnerabilities in their games, I can't really blame them for not allowing downpatching.
A very good video. But it's frustrating me, because of how long it took to finally explain this concept to people. It's such a simple concept, but people don't seem to understand that accessibility benefits them. I heard this described as the "curb cut effect" in my college classes. Basically, the evidence that things designed for accessibility end up benefiting everyone. Which is the main reason everyone should push for more accessibility and be supportive of accessibility. I'm thankful that I learned what the "curb cut effect" was in college, because it finally gave me a clear set of words to describe an idea I'd already understood for a long time. Something that many people just can't seem to wrap their heads around. I've got a long and boring and somewhat angry rant involving my research looking through actual 600+ government design specifications for infrastructure and sidewalks, but I'll save that for another day. Really, I just wish more people would understand the curb cut effect. Yes, in the US we build slopes on sidewalk curbs because of the Americans with Disabilities Act. But the reality, is that we all benefit from having those gentle slopes on our sidewalks, and learning about that should make everyone want to selfishly fight for more accessibility, because it makes the world a better place, not just for everyone else, but for them as well. Yes, I believe that. Something so simple as curb cuts helps every individual in society in so many large and small ways that it's literally always worth it to design and manufacture curb cuts. No, I'm no exaggerating. This is not paying millions of dollars for some hypothetical experiment. This is paying a few hundred dollars of labor to prevent tens of thousands of dollars of medical and personal damage over the lifespan of the sidewalk. Yes, I'd love to shove detailed engineering documents down someone's throat if they want to argue about the relative pennies it takes to manufacture a curb cut compared with the expenses of literally everything around it. (Hint: When installing a new driveway onto an existing grass curb, concrete must be removed and thrown into the trash, which gives some clues about the insignificant raw material costs it takes to provide curb cuts.)
I didn't expect this to be about how Nintendo makes their games, but it's something I wholeheartedly agree with. Most modern Nintendo games try to focus on the freedom you'll have in the game while also still stripping many freedoms.
Nintendo also patched out several item duplication glitches in Tears of the Kingdom, because the way they want you to play is to grind for several hours just to get a single battery upgrade. It's a stark contrast to Breath of the Wild, where you can still use glitches to skip most of the Trial of the Sword or max out your stamina and heart gauges, even on the latest version.
It's weird coz it goes against the part of their philosophy that suggests games/stories should be played non-linearly. A lot of their games, even narrative heavy ones, often allow players a choice in where they go next.
To be fair, a lot of the glitches in Breath of the Wild were discovered *after* the game stopped receiving updates, so they weren't patched out, in very stark contrast to Tears of the Kingdom, which had glitches being discovered in the very first week after release.
I never finished TotK. I gave up almost at the end of the game because I could no longer dupe. I could still beat the game, but that's beside the point. I want to 100% games, and TotK is just way too grindy to 100%, so I just lost all interest when I was forced to grind. I wasn't having fun anymore. I had a fun time until the patch.
@@dejaphoenix When I had heard 1.1.2 had released and patched all the big glitches (including dupes), I immediately went to my switch system settings and turned off auto-updates. To this day I still have 1.1.1 as my version.
Ceave, I have been watching your videos since 2019. I was totally heartbroken to see your channel be abandoned, as you were and still are my favorite UA-camr. When you finally returned I was so happy, and now I love Ceave Perspective even more than Ceave gaming. But, when I saw you uploaded again on my former favorite channel I lost my mind. I love this channel so much, and thank you for returning Ceave. 🎉🎉🎉
The overall point you're making is absolutely valid, but I still need to point out that you can change button mapping in the system settings menu of the Switch hardware. So that's why it's not also in the options menu of each individual game.
You shouldn't have to remap your entire Switch just for one game - especially since difference games use different buttons for different things. I play more than one game at once - I shouldn't have to dive into the Switch-wide settings just to change between playing Celeste or BOTW
Appreciate the attempt to say "hey its ok you CAN actually change stuff! its just difficult and awful actually" but i feel like the existence of a provided method doesnt justify that method being awful and counterintuitive whilst being a scapegoat for not providing a real one for games.
the answer to a lot of the questions of "why are they like this" is piracy and how much they hate it. the inability to downgrade games was an explicit response to 3ds savedata exploits to run homebrew, which Nintendo views as piracy. in addition, their answer to "how are we supposed to play this in the future" is that they would prefer you to buy new games instead of playing the old ones.
This was something that always annoyed me as far back as Pokemon Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon; generation 7 has boundless amounts of mandatory dialogue and tutorials, as well as cinematic cutscenes, and you get no option to skip any of it even though the vast majority of it is stuff you'd have already seen in the original Sun and Moon. That much completely demotivated me from even getting through USUM for a long time simply because it would not let me skip the cutscenes that I've already seen when I just want to play the game and experience the new content. Oh, and something else on the topic of accessibility; I've heard someone bring up the matter of Pokemon games not introducing voice acting despite having plenty of funds to spare on it, their excuse being that they want people to make up their own voices for the characters, but not having voice acting actively makes it more difficult for people that have difficulty reading due to disabilities preventing them from enjoying a story they can't hear.
I think that allowing people to play on the version of their single player game that they want to should 100% be supported by the developers. I agree with the accessibility options problem. Things like colorblindness options or even just cranking up the UI element size would be amazing. I would also say, however, that Nintendo should get a pass on re-binding keys in their Switch games, because of the ability to change the buttons on your controller in the Settings menu. It can even change specific controller's button settings, so one controller could have your 'Tables Only' controller setup, while your main controller has the default settings. This feature was added *extremely* quietly, and I hope that anyone with hand issues discovers it. I personally had a joy con's bumpers die, and just rebound only that controller's bumpers to the L/ZL buttons, and continued playing with it fine.
Nintendo: "B-but you have the (extremely hidden) "remap button" options and your console has a volume slider" Also, online updates seem to encourage a lack of caring in some devs. "We'll fix it later".
I really enjoyed Echos of Wisdom, but definitely felt some major friction in certain parts that would have been easy option toggles in most games. I really don't like the depth of field blur around the screen and would have definitely rebound a few keys. I don't remember which button, but I was misclicking it the entire playthrough; my muscle memory really wanted that action to be on that button and it wasn't
I know it's a little late now, but hopefully it helps you and many other people in the comments section: The Nintendo switch actually has a fairly robust button rebinding feature at the OS level. You can change the function of any button on the switch controller in the main switch options menu, but Nintendo doesn't advertise it very well.
This only changes the raw binding buttons. If something requires you to mash A, you still have to mash something, you can just change which button. The unbindable buttons are used as an example of a broader issue.
What i find is that nintendo doesn't care about you being able to play their old games... they want you to buy their latest game and forget old ones can even be played still
Really great video. The idea of accessibility being more and more important in the near future as the generations of people who grew up with video games get older and older is something I’ve thought about before but rarely heard anyone discuss. It’s always great to know you’re there to bring interesting and lesser-discussed perspectives to the forefront.
As soon as he said that there's no options in the options menu i instantly knew what he was talking about, the new Mario and Luigi game has a whopping ONE WHOLE OPTION on the options menu, and it's just controller vibration, genuinely comical. I wanted the option to turn the sound effects down and the music up, but apparently that's too much to ask.
I also agree. Nintendo seems to have this idea that their games must be absolutely perfect and any glitch (which you need to go out of your way to actually do) needs to be fixed immediately. They seem to specifically target the very few people who would actually use these glitches for fun or speed runs.
Accessibility options shouldn't be optional anymore. It's a small thing to add to make sure everyone can play games. Something as family focused as Nintendo should really understand that. It's not just families, obviously, but you get my point (I hope)
luckily through emulation you can play whatever version of the game you want with whatever controller layout you want, it's like Nintendo is trying as hard as they can to push people towards emulation
you know this startet sounding like an april fools joke in november with "nyaah they made a mandatory puzzle that needs a certain thing that isn't what i want to use" but it is true that nintendo aggressively goes after do what i tell you. how can rpgs where cutscenes are one of the most important part of the game have option to skip them when a mario yahu wahu bim bim bomb game forces you to see your princess is in another game cutscenes 20 times at full length every game
Nope, allowing you to do Day 1 glitches and skip cutscenes does not affect your accessibility to the game as you age. The button mapping thing is valid, but I imagine if you have a hand disfiguration you would just use a custom controller. Nintendo has no obligation to cater to people who do challenge runs, and is playing games like that becomes popular enough, they will eventually cater to those people.
people shouldnt have to get a custom controller especially whenever most other companies provide these options for playing the game how you want to. sadly fanboy loyalty is the death of nintendo innovation
You know what I hate about Nintendo patching glitches? The fact that these glitches are not things they found but community found things, these are glitches that Nintendo finds by watching other people's UA-cam videos of them having fun with the glitch and then they remove it in the next version. I'd be fine if Character Swap glitch was found in bug testing and patched in the beta versions, what I'm NOT fine with is fun bugs and glitches being patched a few days after release because of people talking about it and having fun
unfortunately the glitch is related to one that could potentially crash the game outright. That's justification enough to patch a glitch regardless of who found them.
@@sinteleon even then it's a single player game with on online multiplayer (at least I don't think so), I would maybe patch out the game crashes especially if it's very very annoying and too easy to trigger, but other fun ones I wouldn't. And they make all of these forced patches, someone told it's because of save data, but even resetting the game entirely doesn't let you downgrade. The Wii U and 3ds let you did.
@@varietychanWould you be onboard with a kid seeing the 'plat as link' glitch in a video, doing the glitch themselves, spending a few hours running around the world doing things ... And then realizing that they've locked themselves out of completing the game, once they go back to the dungeons? That's basically what would happen if they didn't patch the 'play as link' glitch. (Some puzzles require use of the echoes, and that glitch prevents them from being used.) In cases where the glitch can break the game experience... I want them to patch that. That same scenario also applies to progression skipping... Which may leave a player in a situation they can't progress from, requiring an entire restart.
@@retnuhytnuob4068 what if, instead of patching the glitch, make it a feature, or fix the bits that are impossible, or add a way to exit the glitched state, outright removing a glitch that has fun uses is the single _worst_ choice to make
@@ThylineTheGay From my understanding, at one point in development, Link was always available for use. Their play testing showed people were using that mode, rather than the echo system they built the game around. - Basically, they had considered it as a feature, and decided it would detract from the overall experience, and added the timer to that mode as a compromise. Adding the ability to detect the glitch state, and an in game way to leave it would likely be far trickier, and riskier than simply patching the problem point. I will note that I agree with a suggestion I saw about potentially making the last Link upgrade the removal of the timer for that mode. That would be a fun reward for completionists, while also ensuring that users would use the echo system for most of their playthrough. (And then glitch hunters could try to trigger that upgrade early)
Thank you for the NB callout in the opening. Its been a very rough time for me personally these past few weeks and stumbling on a subtle nod from my favorite "C" lettered, Nintendo, UA-camr made me stop for a moment. Thank you Ceave.
@@IHak4UrGane27 That callout almost brought me to tears honestly, and I don’t even live in the US. That kind, empathetic approach to life is what we all need right now.
YOU’RE BACK ON THE CHALLENGE RUNS!!! Glad to have a new challenge run video! ❤❤❤ Edit: Glad to hear that other people are annoyed by Nintendo’s refusal to make accessibility options and skippable cutscenes. Please post more on this channel soon!
Thank you for foregrounding accessibility. It is an important issue and for better or worse intersects with so many parts of life. Accessibility in gaming is important because it means we can keep playing and interacting with art and that others can as well. Beauty is important, I believe, and beauty that we cannot see, cannot experience, maybe this isn't so much beauty at all.
This was my biggest problem with the Paper Mario remake. The dialogue in that game is completely unable to be skipped or sped up in any way the first time you see it in a playthrough (if you're seeing the same text again you can skip through it). You're forced to sit through the dialogue at a very slow pace and there is a TON of dialogue. Literally the main reason I haven't gone back to it to do any challenge runs is specifically because I didn't want to be forced to slowly sit through literal hours of dialogue just to get to the parts of the games that I wanted to experience.
Ytps are making a come-back, everyone is complaining about useless commentery/drama chanels But most importantly ceave is back Nature is healing, man that shit is beautifull
It's incredibly frustrating, but on top of that in an industry steadily moving towards a standardised suite of accessibility features: colourblind modes, customisable controls, high contrast UIs, options to reduce or eliminate potentially dangerous graphical effects, etc. like... Nintendo just kinda look like bigots.
To clarify, no I don't think that's a cultural thing either. There are always people who'll refuse to go out of their way to help disabled people regardless of where in the world they are, and on the positive side of things, most other games companies the world over, including in japan, do commit to offering accessibility settings and control option. Nintendo just... why?
Miyazaki: the difficulty of the game is my vision, I'm not going to add a difficulty setting. Miyamoto: The only option I *will* give you is a generic difficulty slider. It's probably the least interesting type of difficulty too, just changing enemy health and damage.
This is a perfect example of the horrifying logical end results of the idea epitomized in the famous quote, "Given the opportunity, players will optomize the fun out of a game." This quote sets up the developer as the arbiter of fun rather than a facilitar of it, and we can see here that Nintendo, for whatever reason, has embraced this concept. Nintendo has a track record of acting such that that the deloper intended way of play is the _only_ acceptable way to play the game. The quote is at best incomplete to the sentiment it was originally meant to express. It would be more accurate to say, "Given the opportunity, players will optomize the _developer intended_ fun out of a game." This acknowledes the issue of optimal play sometimes being boring play on the developer end while also allowing for players to have fun in their own way.
> The quote is at best incomplete to the sentiment it was originally meant to express. It would be more accurate to say, "Given the opportunity, players will optomize the developer intended fun out of a game." I don't think that's the original intent. My understanding of the intent of the quote is "the players will try to optimise even if it's widely inconvenient, so make sure that 'optimising' and 'having fun' are close enough to one another so that they still have fun while optimising". More precisely, the context is Civilization, which is a game of managing an entire country. The most basic game design mistake you can do in such a game is having a system where the player can micromanage their cities one by one, but not making it so that it is actually fun to do because you wrongfully think "surely it is so tedious that no one in their right mind will do it". Said otherwise, the intend of the quote is "if you know peoples will speedrun / challenge run / etc, don't deliberately make it inconvenient, because peoples will find a way to do it anyway".
Mark Rosewater from Magic the Gathering design has had some articles that touch on 'optimizing the fun out of the game'... Players ignoring the fun part of the game, if something else gives a better chance to win, even if that alternative is a painful experience. (Nadu being a recent example) A more Nintendo based scenario is if weapons in Breath of the Wild were cheated to be unbreakable, causing the reward system the developer used throughout the game to no longer be a reward. (And then would complain that none of those mini-challenges are worth it)(I actually did this a bit to myself on ToTK with duplication... and I know that is a contributing factor in my quitting partway through) Nintendo designs everything targeting a specific experience, and then tries to optimize that experience. And they tend to do an excellent job on that front, partly _because_ they don't have to spend time and effort to design and test a number of variations on that intended experience. -- On the other hand, whether that experience is something others _want_ is a different question. (I'm thinking of the direction they have taken with the Paper Mario series...) ---- The point made in the video about accessibility _is_ something that Nintendo should be taking seriously. - the main aspects being audio level balancing, and avoiding the 'rapid tap' mechanic. (Mario party likely being excepted, for design reasons) That _doesn't_ mean they would _need_ to add cutscene skipping, or allowing down patching for accessing 'unintended behavior ' that's been patched. (Even if that might be seen as desirable by some percentage of their users) - Any time an unintended behavior is allowed, it has the possibility of making the game unfishable. (The link glitch might be among those .. it seems that locks the user from using the summons... And would prevent the game from being completable, due to element locks... Which may not be realized until hours later.) For other accessibility considerations, I'd see those as 'nice to have', but can(and maybe should) be handled elsewhere... Color correction by adjusting the settings on the tv, controller remapping by alternate controllers. (Though I'd argue that a base button remap function could potentially be designed into the system's core operating system, allowing it to be optimized at a hardware layer, rather than having the minor performance hit in software every frame.)
This reminds me of a problem I had all the way through my playthrough of TotK. The game makes lots of use of fog and heavy color grading (I think it's called?), probably as a stylistic choice but likely also to hide imperfections in rendering at a distance because of the Switch's weak hardware. As a visually impaired person, this makes it hard for me to see in a lot of areas in the game and I'd love to have an option, even as an accessibility setting with some kind of disclaimer that it might break things, to reduce the fog in favor of visibility, or just outright turn it off, so that I can play the game better. I actually ended up using a mod that reduces the amount of fog and yes it caused a few problems in a small amount of areas in the game, but it made the game so much easier for me to play! Why did I have to use a mod for that? If only Nintendo provided any kind of options at all, this likely would've been something I could've solved in a few seconds of menuing rather than something that reduced my enjoyment of the game throughout most of my playthrough for no apparent reason. When people replay this game in a few decades, maybe they'll find themselves wishing for more accessibility options too, just like I do today.
And it was halfway through a 30-minute video, when the narrator complained about NPCs talking to much for no reason after spending 15 minutes using a bunch of words to say nothing, that I realized the narrator might be a bit of a hypocrite, and clicked away from the video.
Fundamentally, this is a discussion of if games are closer to Art or toys/just software. If you think of them as pure art, mods or alternative play challenges are absurd. It would be like if someone took out of the Shining all scary scenes, decided to read Moby Dick skipping pages, or watch Romeo and Juliet and leaving before the ending. You can do it if you want, but nobody would say you engaged with the art piece, just parts of it. If someone plays Mario Wonder as intended, and someone else plays it by purposely minimising coin touching, they did not play the same game. If you think of them as toys/software, who cares about the intended design? Go nuts! Add Thomas the Tank Engine to Skyrim, play BoTW only using sticks, make a Pokémon Emerald Randomiser. The software is there to be enjoyed however you want, the developers only made the assets for you to have a starting point. I personally side extremely to the Art side of the spectrum, even if this means some games are inaccessible for some people. Gaming being interactive art to me does not fundamentally change the idea that art should not be made accessible at the compromise of its vision. If a game is designed to be very dark such that it is very hard to see, I will assume and defend that as the intent before I ask for brightness settings. However, if someone wants to mod brightness in, I will not oppose them doing it, just personally disagree.
Art can and always will be changed over and over again, not only by the artist but by others. Thats the beauty of art, everyone experiences and interacts with it differently. Forcing people to view your art a specific way is not only arrogant and elitist its also disrespectful to the creativity of others. So yes, video games are art. Which is why believing your interpretation of your art is the ONLY one, the CORRECT one, is fundamental flawed. Art, unlike a math equation, can't be "right" or "wrong" and you rightfully have no control over what people perceive your art to be, as we are all free to experience different things.
@@shineseeker7 Nope, the Mona Lisa has not changed over time. How people interpret, appreciate and value a piece of art changes over time, but the piece itself does not in the vast majority of cases. In the case the art does change, it is usually restored to its original state, or an attempt is made to do so. I literally never said my interpretation of art is the only correct one.
Video games aren’t an art. They has certain aspects of it thats artistic but they’re games first on a fundamental level before anything. Video games are characterized by their gameplay, game design, and game mechanics. It's what makes them distinct from all other mediums. Would you call Football or Chess an art? You wouldn't buy Monopoly and expect a piece of art. However, some tabletop games feature very nice artwork and even come with a story, especially if they're co-op based board games. Those are forms of artistic expression but it doesn't make board games categorically a pure art-form. Video games are, first and foremost, a digital variant of traditional games, such as chess. Nintendo was a playing card company for several decades before they even entered the video game market.
I just want to leave a very loving dump of admiration here. Just a couple of days ago i thought to myself "is this ceave gaming guy still active" and more importantly is his cat that stole all our loving hearts still there of course...
The reason is simply: because they don't want new players from skipping dialogues‚ from finding glitches and from messing up their controls. They think the game is worse if those things are in it‚ and the good of the second playthrough is negligible in their eye compared to the first one. That's all. They are proud of their game‚ and they don't want people to not be able to experience its greatness because of anything‚ even their own choice.
Thanks for shouting out my channel! Interesting discussion here around accessibility and customization. I wholeheartedly agree about the unskippable dialogue. I've ranted about this myself before. It's still not as bad though as it is in Brothership, which I'm currently playing.
I appreciate the challenge suggestion, but it's actually quite similar to my Fewest Summons video. Have you seen that one? I'll shamelessly leave a link to it below. Here, I'm trying to avoid all echo summons, including the table. And almost all platforming sections can be completed without summoning any echoes. I summoned 36 echoes in that run (the actual minimum that I'm aware of is 33), and the differences if the table is treated as "free" would be:
- Summons 1-7 can be done entirely with table as you showed in this video
- Summon 14 is a table
- Summon 17 could be skipped with a table staircase
- Summon 18 could be avoided, probably with just a single table
- Summons 19 and 20 (Hebra icicle melts) can be avoided as I showed in my No Echo Repeats video
- Summon 29 (beetle mound) could be replaced with multiple tables (the reverse Armos bond might still be required)
So that brings us to a minimum of 23 non-table echo summons required to beat the game.
Fewest Summons challenge: ua-cam.com/video/qboIdfrz2Gw/v-deo.htmlsi=HyPh_KQRnr7KnpvI
So true what you said about Brothership - I feel like 90% of my time with that game is spent holding B and mashing A to fast-forward through the dialogue. And I wouldn't mind the dialogue or the cutscenes nearly as much (both in Echoes and in Brothership) if both games didn't have the same bland, surface-level themes. I get that "it's a children's game" but so what? (TotK, for instance, is also a children's game, but I find myself watching all the cutscenes even on my third playthrough, despite the fact TotK actually has a skip option!)
I'm near the end of Brothership, but I can't bring myself to complete it. Just thinking about having to sit through an hour of corny dialogue on "the power of friendship" makes me nauseous.
I like Brothership but good lord they changed so many things from previous games that I just don't understand
Why do you not control Luigi? Like he's an AI that follows you in this so you feel like you're playing as Mario with Luigi helping, rather than both
Why is cancelling in battle tied to the B button instead of the L button like it was in every other game??
Why does everyone exposit at you endlessly when in the other games they'd poke fun at overdone exposition by having a character that talks for too long while the bros fall asleep??
Why. On Earth. Do I need a set of dudes to tell me what the strongest boots/hammer I have is when they literally just tell you what's at the bottom of the list. And why would I need a 5 minute conversation to understand this.
The same great man that created the FPS mods and a few other ones for Brothership also made a mod that allows you to fast forward the game at will using ZL. It's the only way to make Brothership playable for me!
It's funny that Ceave made a comeback on his main channel, but it's even funnier that Psycrow wormed his way into the video somehow.
the name psycrow unearthed memories in my brain i didnt know I still had lmao
At this point I wouldn’t be surprised if the two are related honestly
Nintendo be like "you're having fun wrong!"
The injured thumb part hit home for me. A few months ago I badly sprained my right wrist in a bicycle accident. It was extremely difficult to use a mouse. Steam let me rebind a spare controller's left stick to mouse inputs instead, so I could still play games (that didn't require fast reactions) with one hand. It made me think about how much some games require both hands to be in perfect working order.
Seeing this pop up in my notifications was a nice surprise.
@zarinblade5936 I agree since I was also pleasantly surprised when I saw the UA-cam notification for this video earlier today.
The legend returns!
It is a nice surprise!
Its quite an interesting contrast to see this game being showcased as the example of this lack of letting the players choose how to play because a main theme of the game is that you can play in your own way and solve puzzles in a different way from anyone else because there isn't just one right answer, and yet despite this focus on being able to play your own way, they still are not okay with anyone playing in any way that isnt their way and refuse to give customization for settings whether it be for easier controls, accessibility, or a challenge
The Switch itself has button customization though, not the most expansive but they get the job done most of the time.
@ true, but it still barely even solves half the problem
Changing your controls through the switch ui itself is such a copout because it always fucks the menus and makes the on screen ui not match what you're pressing. It's nice to have, but it isn't good enough.
back in my day 90% of the games didn't had such autism like configuring controls. and even when it was there nobody cared. kids nowadays are retards. they can't even coordinate their hands to use the controls as they are.
none of you would survive a day in the arcades.
It is kinda weird how few (accessibility) options Nintendo games have for how broadly appealing the games generally are. Even most indie games (who often don't have the capacity or budget to implement all the options they would like) offer way more options than Nintendo seems to do.
Nintendo is the only company I know of that actually goes out of their way to not be accessible. What other company would make a side scrolling platformer that has normal controls 99% of the time but then forces you to shake the shit out of a controller at two key moments & also any time an enemy grabs you?
@@D_YellowMadness Exactly, most others either wouldn't design that way or give you an option to turn of the need for shaking.
Ye. It'd be like if God of War _didn't_ have the option to switch between button mashing and button holding.
Bro finally remembered his UA-cam password
The real reason he made a second channel
Bruh
Actually he has a second channel where he uploads more frequently
never heard that one before
dude, he has a video essays channel. go watch that instead.
I feel like when Miyamoto's biography comes out, we're going to see a passage like, "When I was a kid I loved playing with toys. One day my father saw me playing with a toy car and soldier, having them argue with each other. He came over, got down on one knee, and smacked me across the face saying 'Cars don't talk. If you don't play with that toy right, then I'm taking it away.' I want to give the kids of today the same experience that I grew up with via our products."
Oddly enough he's quoted saying that player freedom was important (at least early on). Even the very start of the first 1-1, you can go over or under or loop around to hit all of the blocks.
This is a Nintendo problem, not a Miyamoto problem.
@@thekoifishcoyote8762 makes me wonder if he's become like Bigweld in Robots, pushed aside for "upgrades".
i once saw someone describing nintendo's design philosophy as "stop having fun wrong," and i couldn't agree more
@@thekoifishcoyote8762 its 100% Shuntaro doing this we saw it happen the Moment Iwata Died and the TempCEO got into place listening to SHuntaro. Lawsuits out the ass and suddenly games take a NOSE DIVE into Railroads and Tutorials that never end.
As much as I love Iwata, his passing didn't suddenly change Nintendo to make more hand holdy games. One example can be seen in Skyward Sword and how it is well known to be infuriating with it's tutorials and that came out for the Wii. There is a long history of overbearing features in Nintendo games, it still amazes me that XC can have tutorials constantly popping up like a hundred hours in, but breath of the wild is way more hands off, with BotW coming out much later
I get the impression that Nintendo really wants to have a reputation of flawless games with no major glitches. They patch things left and right, stop selling old games that they can't really focus on supporting (hence the whole "why can't I buy gameboy games anymore, even on new consoles?" issue), and restrict the player's options (as more options just leads to more potential places that glitches can pop up). The fewer ways there are for someone to play a game, the easier it is for them to focus on making those specific ways as glitch-free as possible.
I completely agree, and they fail to realize that by doing these things, they are actively harming their users. It comes across as them both not caring about their users, and to take it even further, they come across as actively having contempt for their users. Accessibility is a must. It is literally the most basic way to improve the user experience, and literally allows more people to play their games. But they don't care, and I don't know they ever will.
They stop selling old games because people don't buy them. Virtual console was an enormous flop all three times they tried it.
@@HeavySighSA yet they throw a tantrum when people emulate their games.
@@HeavySighSA i bought a ton of games on 3ds virtual console
UA-cam does this as well. Look at the options menus and you find zero options for any personalization.
The fact that Nintendo who very clearly are angling for the "we make games for everyone" title don't see the benefit of including what are rapidly becoming industry-standard acessibility and customization options is honestly embarrassing. I do hope they do start building in these support systems into their games but I won't hold my breath. Nintendo seems hell-bent on their prescriptivist view of how their games should be played these days.
um totk was a game like no other that made everyone in the game dev industry open there mouths with how complex it was as well how the heck it was working 😂😂😂😂
@@kostakonomi And what the fuck do you think that has to do with their lack of acessibility options?
@@kostakonomi Nobody is saying Nintendo is incompetent, we're all saying that Nintendo doesn't give their players options that should be included for ease of use, enjoyment, accessibility, etc. Nintendo wants you to play their games a specific way and if you don't follow their path they hold active contempt for you.
Prescriptive is a great way to put it. I agree way more with a prescriptive view of gaming than an open one. Fundamentally, I want to play more how the developers want me to, than how I want to.
For example, in literally the game subject of the video, I only used Link mode when breaking those dark webs and nothing else. The game gave me the opportunity to not use Swordfighter mode, and I took it. The game did not give me the opportunity to skip dialogue, and I am fine with that. They set the terms, I play within them.
@@AfutureV if there were more options for how to play the game, you could still play the game that way, but other people would also be able to play it the way they want to, which is strictly a better situation
I'm not sure where I've heard this but I've heard that the issues you pointed out are prevalent not only in Nintendo but in Japan in general. They have this notion that they know best when it comes to playing their games, therefor, things like Accessibility Options are not present because they deem it not necessary for playing the game the way they intended it. Again, I might be wrong and it might be a Nintendo specific issue, but the fact remains that they are so anti-player with their game designs because they think they know the best way to experience their own games
As far as I'm aware, that is a general problem in Japan, not just Nintendo, and not even just Japanese games. I'm gonna grossly oversimplify here so please take this with a grain of salt, but they tend to not acknowledge or discourage individuality. This isn't limited to things like the clothes you wear or what food you like, it includes things like having disabilities or special needs. There is sort of an undertone of either blame or ignore the problems of the individual, especially if they get in the way of the wants/needs of the many.
it's not technically a nintendo specific issue, as it does relate to a japanese cultural element, but that element requires one to treat game production as the providing of a service.
let me explain:
if you were to order tea in japan at a restaurant they will serve it to you one way and one way only: usually without anything added to it. There is an intent behind the service and the creator of the service wishes you to enjoy the service as they provided it. This is not necessarily a bad thing, as, --again, for example-- adding sugar or milk or whatever to said tea would, by that nature, be changing the service that has been provided, and thus you are no longer experiencing the service as it was given to you, which some people may consider as rude.
Companies like Nintendo and Game Freak seem to treat the production of games as a service they provide to the public, rather than an art piece that can have multiple different ways to be enjoyed by multiple different people. (side note: this is similar to the contrasting ways of interpereting literature and media; Authorial Intent vs Death of the Author)
Conversely, japanese game company FromSoft (makers of Dark Souls) *does not* have this view of games as a service provided, as the only glitches or exploits that have ever been patched from their games (as far as I'm aware) have been those that legitimately cause interference with the enjoyability of the game.
TLDR; Nintendo thinks games aren't art they produce, but instead services they provide. (Which kinda explains why they are so against fan projects --beyond just legal reasons-- and emulators, as they likely consider such things as alternate ways for people to be provided the services they want to provide to you)
Authorial intent is more important than accessibility. People do not demand movies remove flashing lights scenes just because some people can have terrible health reactions to them. Why are video games treated like toys before art?
@@nickf2571I think your comment is completely backwards. Presenting a specific curated vision where the player can not modify much beyond the intended experience IS Art, as opposed to giving you a playground for you to do whatever you want on it. It would be like saying the Louvre has no art because they do not offer crayons for you to scribble on their paintings. No, They set the art as is, you are there to appreciate it. Now, how you interpret that is up to you.
FromSoft has patches that go beyond what you said.
@@AfutureV What use is a game if you cannot play with it? You're supposed to be able to have fun with it. Yes, it's art. But art is subjective. It's not a set thing; A painting may be supposed to look like something but that doesn't mean you're not allowed to see anything else in it. So why does that philosophy not carry over to games?
Yeah. From another angle, the move Nintendo has been making towards making it impossible to mash through dialogue has caused me a lot of pain, as someone who *simply reads really fast*.
I can skim a paragraph of text in about half a second, so if a game doesn’t allow me to mash through dialogue, it thereby condemns me to stare blankly at the screen as text slooooowly scrolls by at like a third of my natural reading pace. Even if the game lets me speed up the scroll speed, the fastest options are always still too slow. It’s agonizing.
The injured thumb thing strikes a chord with me. I have tendon issues that are gradually becoming worse, and games with a lot tapping over a longer period used to be difficult to me as a child, painful for me as young adult, and now as a mature adult they are just legitimately impossible for me to play at all.
It's especially frustrating because most often just holding the button in question would be more convenient, more consistent, more enjoyable and overall just the better choice. Making people tap tap tap tap tap away at the same button for minutes on end is just not fun.
@@Beremor yeah, like terraria moving away from autoswing being a weapon-specific thing, to a general option, none of the non-autoswing weapons are OP with autoswing, it's just needless annoyance
I use turbo controllers for stuff like that
This is a major issue in many Nintendo games, really. In the Splatoon franchise in particular, there's two entire weapon classes that are completely locked out to people who have RSI or otherwise risk wrist/digit strain. They've known about the problem since they released in 2016, yet have refused to add any option to make them easier to use. For as appealing as Nintendo's games can be, they're increasingly showing a borderline disdain for the people actually playing them.
Same. I hurt my left thumb playing too many games, and have a pinched nerve root on the right which causes reduced circulation, so now I have to be extremely picky and careful about how I play. And Nintendo's policy on it, like with so many other things, is to just give a middle finger to their players.
I’m at 0:13 rn, excited for this video to be about walkable cities or something actually
You almost got it right lol.
HES RETURNED!
He posted a lot more on his other channel "Ceave perspective"
saying he's implies "returned" is an adjective, therefore it is grammatically correct only if you take returned as an adjective and thus it implies that Ceave has over 500 Cosmere breaths and needs to consume another one each week or he will die, which has... interesting implications
Actually he has a second channel where he uploads more frequently
He literally showed the alternate channel where he's been active
HE NEVER LEFT? WHATEVER THE GAMING PART RETURNED WHY IS MY CAPS LOCK BROKEN!
i remember one of the nintendo dev, i think it was someone on the splatoon 2 team(?) comparing their games to sushi. And how in japan you dont go into a sushi restaurant and tell the chef how to make the sushi in a way you want for you, you let the chef make it the way the chef wants for you. I feel this has only gotten stronger since then.
send that dev the most obnoxious borderline Rancid sushi ever conceived and see if they stand by those words
@@erubianwarlord8208 So if some rando came into your place of work and started telling you how to do your job you'd be totally fine with that?
@@nathanblackburn1193 i see the point about curating an experience, but i think that with accessibility and control mapping specifically it's closer to a chef refusing to take into account allergies to certain replaceable ingredients
@@nathanblackburn1193 Customer: Hi i would like a steak.
Gives you a Rubber Boot of a steak
Customer Can you cook it right this time?
Chef: You don't know how to cook. no YOU EAT OR LEAVE!
Restaurant has no more Customers.
Funny, a comment showed up right above yours that discusses it and has quotes, even links an article.
So yeah, EcclesZero and by extension me, know what you mean
THESE TABLES ARE WOODY YET DEADLY
🗣️🔥🔥
"So the table is set."
"...was off the table."
"The tables had turned."
😆 Love all the puns and thoughtful insights about how Nintendo's design affects usability.
HES BACK HES BACK THIS IS NOT A DRILL I REPEAT HE HAS RETURNED
i dont normally like being the person to point out a famous youtuber being on another channel but i have to seeing you just made me do the biggest double take ever
HE HAS A SECOND CHANNEL WHERE HE UPLOADS APPROXIMATELY ONCE A MONTH THIS IS NOT A DRILL
@@CarrotFarmer yes a second channel. You do realize the two are completely separate right? Plus he didn’t announce he was going to leave this one just that he’d make another one
Laughability watches Ceave?? Wowza
laugh watches ceave? based
THANK YOU for putting accessibility in focus in this video! an important adage comes to mind: any person can become disabled at any time. what options may be useless to you today could become the only way you can play a game tomorrow.
a lot of games have come out that i would like to play but cannot because of chronic tendonitis - webfishing comes to mind in particular. mashing buttons is REQUIRED and if you cannot do that repetitive motion you have to use outside mods to be able to play. i find that very sad and discouraging. accessibility in games is SO important.
i also appreciate some of the other perspectives in this video i didn't even think of, like being able to warp places to route challenge runs more easily! that's proof that there's an infinite tapestry of human experience that touches games, and with more options, more of those experiences can be enjoyed to their fullest. great stuff.
they actually added an autoclicker to vanilla webfishing a few weeks back check the settings
But yeah accessibility options, important. Admittedly my main game Geometry Dash isn't really well suited to that considering its already one-button gameplay but like yeah it is important
As someone who also requires accessibility options sometimes, I find it sadder to think that a developer has to compromise their vision just because some users want to their work as clay to mold themselves. If a developer put button mashing on purpose on a game, I think it is very arrogant to demand them to change their game just because someone can not play it. I do not believe everyone is entitled to play every game.
skill isssue
@@based980 Your bones will deteriorate sooner than later.
@@AfutureV I do not believe everyone is entitled to be on the Internet. Get off.
Yeah, while it makes sense to push bugfixes for problems that ruin a 'normal' player's experience, a bug that only people who _want_ to run into it experience doesn't require a fix.
SO true dude, as someone with hand issues, im pretty much forced off of all the games I used to enjoy, turn based RPG's that can be played one handed are all thats really accesible right now. Would love more companies to take accesibility settings more seriously
Your issues with Nintendo describe their "STOP HAVING FUN WRONG!" philosophy perfectly. You have to play their games their way, and only their way, and you'll like it - or else.
Look at the Metroid Prime speedrun community - Nintendo wouldn't leave them alone either, patching glitch after glitch in the post-GameCube releases just to spite them.
Exactly.Nintendo has a very strong philosophy that says "YOU SHALL PLAY OUR GAME THIS WAY OR YOU SHALL NOT PLAY IT AT ALL". This is shown in how they design games without options and how they crack down on and send cease and desists to anyone using modded consoles or games for competitions like tournaments. I don't know if it's egotistical or foolhardy but it is turning away many current and future players that could come to endure their games if they simply adapted more to what video game players not want by need.
Think it could be a cultural thing, but it's 2024 and everyone else is moving with the times so there's not really any excuse.
Certain other things annoy me too, like their stubbornness when it comes to their music. Finally they gave us a way to listen on their terms, but only with a dripfeed of OSTs for no apparent reason, and without crediting composers :/
Hehe, speedrunning is something else. I know that there is an eternal debate in the speedrunning community whether exploting glitches is a valid strategy or not. Some people feel like it's fair game; other consider glitches no better than cheat codes. That's why there's usually categories on leaderboards for "glitched" and "glitchless" speedruns.
I myself am one of those who dislikes glitches. And I know that if I was to ever become a game developer and create a game that people speedrun, I'd totally follow the speedrunner forums and patch everything ASAP, just to mess with people. 😁
Though I'd also give access to all the old versions, just to be fair. 🙂
@@vilx7259 There's a big issue with the "glitches are like cheat codes" argument, being that a lot of glitches require a lot of skill and good game knowledge as to how they work to use them well. Cheat codes are just codes, you just know them and they work. Game devs can obviously patch what they like, but if it's just to mess up speedrunners, I feel it's usually pointless, unless it makes speedruns more interesting (like removing warps to the end credits, but keeping things that skip long waiting sequences, or cool and difficult quick kills on bosses). Giving access to older version is awesome though and is something I think should be done more often :3
@@epicgameruwu9907 I know of this "skill argument" too, but to me it doesn't hold water - it doesn't matter how difficult it is to enter a cheat code, it's still a cheat code. To me the main reason why cheat codes are bad is not because they make the game too easy (you could just add a category to the leaderbords then), but because they fundamentally alter the game, and it's not the same game anymore. But, again - I totally acknowledge that this is a subjective question, and your viewpoint is completely valid too.
From a developer's point of view though - a bug is a bug. And speedrunners are the best and most thorough testers ever. 🤠
That said, sometimes I think there are such interesting bugs (like the play-as-link bug in the video), that they totally deserve to be made into a feature.
Hello Ceave, just so you know, you don't need the linking ability to make compact stairs of tables : put a table, push it once, put a table on top, you will have a compact stair.
I think Ceave is becoming the Hbomberguy of the Nintendo community with how many times a video's topic takes a hard left directly into a ditch.
...okay, well the thumbnail and title have been changed so this no longer applies. Everyone unlike this comment.
Given how much pathologic hbomberguys played, I’d say their philosophies on games are very different
Don't compare Ceave to that guy
@@MetroAndroid What's wrong with hbomberguy??
@@MetroAndroid wym, he’s great
@@liamsgreatbitgamingtexting underage is not okay lmao
Sadly the only answer to some of the concerns with nintendo's current way of doing things is game modding. For example, I was very happy to find a patch that removed the annoying blur effect the day I bought the game. I find it really unpleasant and at times headache-inducing so I'm not sure if I'd have finished the game without it. It's a shame that minor details like this due to a lack of in-game options can cause a lot of people to be unable to enjoy games they otherwise would really like.
"Accessibility" is something Nintendo knows nothing about.
Great video, with a really important point about accessibility. People think of disabilities as something that affect a few unlucky people, not something most people will have to deal with at some point in their lives.
There's an interview with a Nintendo designer where they talked a bit about their philosophy of not having options. This is about not being able to choose maps or when to play Salmon Run in Splatoon 2:
"In Japan, there's a sense of, 'We're making this thing for you, and this is how we think this thing is better enjoyed.' This is why, in Splatoon, the maps rotate every couple of hours. And the modes change. 'I bought this game, why can't I just enjoy this game the way I want?' That's not how we think here. Yes, you did buy the game. But we made this game. And we're pretty confident about how this game should be enjoyed. If you stick with us, and if you get past your initial resistance, you're going to have the time of your life with this game. You're really going to love it."
Interviewer: "You think you know what we want better than we know what we want?"
"We think we know what you don't know you want."
That's just an excerpt, there's more context in the full quote (and the TED talk mentioned in it):
www.nintendolife.com/news/2017/09/splatoon_2_designer_explains_why_the_maps_rotate_and_salmon_run_is_time-limited
And here I thought it was a logistical solution to focus players on the same maps or game modes. If you do salmon run at any time, you might miss the other players (assuming it was not a popular game mode), so focusing the players into specific time slots helps avoid empty lobbies.
But apparently that's not the case, they just "know better" than I do on how to play the game. No wonder they hate mods and speed running.
@mirrikybird I'm sure they were thinking about something like that when they made the call, they don't do it arbitrarily. But their priorities can be pretty wack lmao. I'm very glad they changed it for 3
@@EcclesZero to be honest, outside of those very common complaints (so stuff like the news being unskippable, salmon run not being on 24/7), they have not expanded any of the options in that game whatsoever
@@jakett2216they treat multiplayer games like they do single player games i think. Or more accurately they refuse to add features to released games without DLCs
@@usernametaken017 Oh they do add features, they just add them in at a GLACIAL pace and usually it's just basic functionality. Like when splatoon 3 released, there was an invite feature but you literally couldn't invite ppl individually for some dumb fucking reason, it just pinged your entire friend list (like are we fucking serious???). So they went back and added in this feature where if you type in a keyword, you can play in a pb with others using that same keyword (cool but not the cleanest solution). Ngl the whole series has just been plagued by this sorta thing. People will complain and then months or even years down the line, they'll then patch it
This is only part of the problem you brought up - but man, I hate how bug fixes are treated by people (particularly but not unlimited to Nintendo). Fixing bugs that effect the casual experience (crashes, softlocks, options or QOL breaking, things you'd run into without meaning to) is good, but going out of the way to fix something that people only ever really trigger if they're purposefully trying to do it... why?
I really like how Toby Fox tackled something like this. In Deltarune Chapter 2 there's a bug that could be done when transitioning screens. It was used in speedruns, but it could also be done quite easily by accident. He patched it so it could be done, but only if you're holding a specific button, reducing the chance of it hindering a casual playthrough but still usable by speedrunners.
Also, thank you so so much for mentioning disability and accessibility. This is such an important topic.
Man, I hate when devs patch super cool glitches that literally *nobody* is coming across accidentally, especially when they could’ve reintroduced the bug as a feature because it doesn’t break the game, like, why not introduce playing as link as a feature instead of only patching out the glitch that made it possible, maybe it could’ve been a new game+ option
I'm reminded of how Link became right-handed for the wiimote. I remember getting into arguments with people who said this wouldn't affect anything and that the games would play just fine if I used the wiimote in my left hand, because I'm just not one of those ambitextrous lefties and so I need to do precision movements with my left hand. The thing is, if the design was actually that intuitive and fluid, I don't think they would have NEEDED to change Link. I don't think they would have had to flip the world of Twilight Princess, and I think I would have enjoyed Skyward Sword a bit better where those precise movements really mattered. They changed it because they KNEW it would give right-handed players a better experience, and so I automatically knew I was not going to get the BEST experience. And that much was true -- it did affect the immersion for me. They could have gone an extra step to include the ability to use either hand and let Link swap, but they didn't. They did what works for "most." That's when Link stopped being the "link" between the player and the game, for me.
Meh, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Why make games accessible, anyway? Why not less accessible? How about a game where you can only succeed if you can wiggle your ears and were born with hitchhiker thumbs! If we're going down this path, at least make it fun!
Nintendo's been min maxing the day one user score for quite some time now. It's in their best interest that you have as few options as possible, so that people don't accidentally muck something up when they play, or lose sight of what they're doing. Back in the day, it meant clever level design and framing. Now a days, it means strict iron shoes heat wielded to the train car you're in.
Nintendo games are still really good, but I hate how much time they insist on wasting, fun things they insist on breaking over their knee. They found a formula that works, but it works less the further you go. Thankfully for them, you only have to love the game the first time
Nintendo: you can do WHATEVER you want... as long as we thought of it ahead of time
This game did not have the problem but related to accessibility: small text in gaming.
I don't have a huge TV and my TV is a little too far away from my couch. This isn't a problem for movies or TV. But in most games, even games with a "larger text" option, I have to get up and walk to the screen to read tiny menu elements. Nobody notices this because most gamers are apparently using a PC monitor and sitting about 6 inches away from it. They'll notice it in their 50s.
Worse, often turning on "larger text" breaks the games in other ways. If I do this in No Man's Sky, some menus become unusable because they just stupidly scale things up with no concern as to whether they'll still fit on the screen. In menus, elements don't get larger and can't scroll so text gets clipped and becomes unreadable.
Did you really name your son Robert'); DROP TABLE Students;-- ?
Oh, yes. Little Bobby Tables, we call him.
Well we've lost this year's student records. I hope you're happy.
Speedrunners have already discovered a table% route that uses the menu storage glitch to wrong-warp to the final dungeon.
Btw the table% run on 1.0 consists of one non-table echo placement, being a sign used to wrong warp into null’s body. The only notable thing that happens inside null’s body would be the erroneous use of swordfighter form to damage and kill Null’s underwater phase
I saw a youtuber (shoutout to Bringle, amazing guy) playing the new Mario and Luigi RPG recently, and he opened the 'options' menu in the game to find only this:
Rumble On, or Rumble Off.
This is a serious problem and I'm glad somebody is bringing it up!
i cant stand the railroading in that game like FREAKING 6 hours of Tutorial COME ON. I never got out of that hell tutorial into the "good Parts" FFS even MGS4 and KH2 have shorter cutscenes and tutrials COMBINED than Brother ships waste of my TIME.
"serious" problem
@@Spram2 What do you want him to say? Silly problem?
I hadn’t been watching his brothership videos to hopefully avoid spoilers in case I wanted to play it myself, but…seriously? Holy fuck that is awful
@@JaxxoonRunserious problem maybe
You bring up a great point about Nintendo's lack of accessibility options and game intent. One thing that annoyed me to no end in Zelda EOW was the inability to disable the mini map. Lately I've been enjoying running through games as blind as possible which means no map use or warping. I feel it creates a more pure experience but I could not get that because of the lack of an option.
I was originally expecting the "problem with modern Nintendo" to be that they're "too handhold-y" with their design compared to how they used to be, but the approach called out by this video certainly applies as well.
im glad you mentioned how annoying and frustrating it is when nintendo patches glitches and doesnt let you download older versions, especially for speedrunners. im not ever expecting them to address that issue because its nintendo, but it feels like a ridiculous issue in the first place since its not like its harming anyone
This is the reason I've started calling Nintendo "the Apple of gaming" because both companies are very strict on allowing you to use their product in ONLY the exact way they intended, and any deviation is to be punished severely. When I got Echoes of Wisdom, the first thing I did was open the settings, because that's what I usually do with new games, and I found the depth of field effect very irritating (I don't have any vision problems, it just hurt my eyes), only to find NOTHING.
I first realized this issue with Nintendo when I was playing Splatoon 3 and decided to participate in one of the challenge events. The event was rollers and brushes only, but everyone had insanely buffed speed. The whole match was everyone rolling around at the speed of sound and it was THE MOST fun I've had playing Splatoon. I thought "Why don't they let players do this normally??" Halo Infinite allows you to screw with the gravity and friction to create the dumbest matches out there? Why can't I open a lobby for me and my friends to play a round with bombs only and infinite ink? While they're at it, just let me queue for a random match on any map in any game mode! I love Splatoon's map rotation system, but sometimes the only maps and modes available suck and I just have to come back 2 hours later hoping I can finally enjoy the game
hey remember lobbies or private servers... well they are still amazing on PC. Its too bad consoles must force players to play on inferior game design.
Absolutely agree with everything you've said about accessibility options, but... The switch actually comes packed with its own universal button rebinding system, tucked away in its settings menu. It's quite nice for "no xxx action" challenge runs or just to mess around with in your fave games :p
Yeah but that's a lazy fix that also makes the games lie about which button to press. They can do better
Nintendo's anti-consumer behavior really do be terrible for the life of their games. They've been slowly removing accessibility options, patching glitches, putting up invisible walls and forced checkpoints when people find skips, and generally being no-fun-allowed for ages. Then going after people who post mods, parodies, and non-profit fangames as if those things were actively burning a hole in their pockets. It makes no sense. I'd love to be able to enjoy Nintendo games, I think they're whimsical and the different franchises are cool. But I can't in good faith pay top dollar for a game with no accessibility options or replayability when I can go on steam and get five or six really good games for the same price, and from devs who aren't ass to their players and content creators. The only way I've been 'playing' Nintendo games the last some years is vicariously through challenge players like Ceave. But if they're going to be so adamant about controlling how people play then eventually even the diehard fans will die out, which is really sad. Heck, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if someone at Nintendo saw this and decided to remove table echo's ability to damage non-player creatures and entities just to put a stop to anyone trying this. 'S a bummer.
Pirating nintendo games is always morally correct
22:45 Sega would probably see videos like this and patch skipping dialogs in.
They also patched Sonic Frontiers to fix the complaints of players.
Honestly I agree with you about how Nintendo Forces us to play games the way they want us to play. I wish they gave us more customization with how we play their games but they just say no. This is kinda why I haven’t really been into playing Nintendo games lately because a lot of other games give you a lot more customization and options
While the lack of basic options in 2024 is simply unacceptable, I will say that given Nintendo's history with security vulnerabilities in their games, I can't really blame them for not allowing downpatching.
A very good video. But it's frustrating me, because of how long it took to finally explain this concept to people. It's such a simple concept, but people don't seem to understand that accessibility benefits them. I heard this described as the "curb cut effect" in my college classes. Basically, the evidence that things designed for accessibility end up benefiting everyone. Which is the main reason everyone should push for more accessibility and be supportive of accessibility. I'm thankful that I learned what the "curb cut effect" was in college, because it finally gave me a clear set of words to describe an idea I'd already understood for a long time. Something that many people just can't seem to wrap their heads around.
I've got a long and boring and somewhat angry rant involving my research looking through actual 600+ government design specifications for infrastructure and sidewalks, but I'll save that for another day. Really, I just wish more people would understand the curb cut effect. Yes, in the US we build slopes on sidewalk curbs because of the Americans with Disabilities Act. But the reality, is that we all benefit from having those gentle slopes on our sidewalks, and learning about that should make everyone want to selfishly fight for more accessibility, because it makes the world a better place, not just for everyone else, but for them as well. Yes, I believe that. Something so simple as curb cuts helps every individual in society in so many large and small ways that it's literally always worth it to design and manufacture curb cuts. No, I'm no exaggerating. This is not paying millions of dollars for some hypothetical experiment. This is paying a few hundred dollars of labor to prevent tens of thousands of dollars of medical and personal damage over the lifespan of the sidewalk. Yes, I'd love to shove detailed engineering documents down someone's throat if they want to argue about the relative pennies it takes to manufacture a curb cut compared with the expenses of literally everything around it. (Hint: When installing a new driveway onto an existing grass curb, concrete must be removed and thrown into the trash, which gives some clues about the insignificant raw material costs it takes to provide curb cuts.)
I didn't expect this to be about how Nintendo makes their games, but it's something I wholeheartedly agree with. Most modern Nintendo games try to focus on the freedom you'll have in the game while also still stripping many freedoms.
Nintendo also patched out several item duplication glitches in Tears of the Kingdom, because the way they want you to play is to grind for several hours just to get a single battery upgrade. It's a stark contrast to Breath of the Wild, where you can still use glitches to skip most of the Trial of the Sword or max out your stamina and heart gauges, even on the latest version.
It's weird coz it goes against the part of their philosophy that suggests games/stories should be played non-linearly. A lot of their games, even narrative heavy ones, often allow players a choice in where they go next.
To be fair, a lot of the glitches in Breath of the Wild were discovered *after* the game stopped receiving updates, so they weren't patched out, in very stark contrast to Tears of the Kingdom, which had glitches being discovered in the very first week after release.
I never finished TotK. I gave up almost at the end of the game because I could no longer dupe. I could still beat the game, but that's beside the point. I want to 100% games, and TotK is just way too grindy to 100%, so I just lost all interest when I was forced to grind. I wasn't having fun anymore. I had a fun time until the patch.
@@dejaphoenix When I had heard 1.1.2 had released and patched all the big glitches (including dupes), I immediately went to my switch system settings and turned off auto-updates. To this day I still have 1.1.1 as my version.
@@awsmrs
Can’t wait for switch two to not give you that option !
Ceave, I have been watching your videos since 2019. I was totally heartbroken to see your channel be abandoned, as you were and still are my favorite UA-camr. When you finally returned I was so happy, and now I love Ceave Perspective even more than Ceave gaming. But, when I saw you uploaded again on my former favorite channel I lost my mind. I love this channel so much, and thank you for returning Ceave. 🎉🎉🎉
so real
You're telling me he's had another channel he's been active on this whole time??? How tf did I miss this
The overall point you're making is absolutely valid, but I still need to point out that you can change button mapping in the system settings menu of the Switch hardware. So that's why it's not also in the options menu of each individual game.
You shouldn't have to remap your entire Switch just for one game - especially since difference games use different buttons for different things. I play more than one game at once - I shouldn't have to dive into the Switch-wide settings just to change between playing Celeste or BOTW
Appreciate the attempt to say "hey its ok you CAN actually change stuff! its just difficult and awful actually" but i feel like the existence of a provided method doesnt justify that method being awful and counterintuitive whilst being a scapegoat for not providing a real one for games.
@breezyq6449 Let me try to deescalate the snark by pointing to the first eight words in my comment.
@@MichaelHeide yea fair enough, my bad lol
the answer to a lot of the questions of "why are they like this" is piracy and how much they hate it. the inability to downgrade games was an explicit response to 3ds savedata exploits to run homebrew, which Nintendo views as piracy. in addition, their answer to "how are we supposed to play this in the future" is that they would prefer you to buy new games instead of playing the old ones.
How are people with issues right now supposed to play the games advertised for "the whole family". Wasn't inclusivity the whole point
@usernametaken017 profit is the whole point _shrug_
This was something that always annoyed me as far back as Pokemon Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon; generation 7 has boundless amounts of mandatory dialogue and tutorials, as well as cinematic cutscenes, and you get no option to skip any of it even though the vast majority of it is stuff you'd have already seen in the original Sun and Moon. That much completely demotivated me from even getting through USUM for a long time simply because it would not let me skip the cutscenes that I've already seen when I just want to play the game and experience the new content.
Oh, and something else on the topic of accessibility; I've heard someone bring up the matter of Pokemon games not introducing voice acting despite having plenty of funds to spare on it, their excuse being that they want people to make up their own voices for the characters, but not having voice acting actively makes it more difficult for people that have difficulty reading due to disabilities preventing them from enjoying a story they can't hear.
I think that allowing people to play on the version of their single player game that they want to should 100% be supported by the developers.
I agree with the accessibility options problem. Things like colorblindness options or even just cranking up the UI element size would be amazing.
I would also say, however, that Nintendo should get a pass on re-binding keys in their Switch games, because of the ability to change the buttons on your controller in the Settings menu. It can even change specific controller's button settings, so one controller could have your 'Tables Only' controller setup, while your main controller has the default settings.
This feature was added *extremely* quietly, and I hope that anyone with hand issues discovers it. I personally had a joy con's bumpers die, and just rebound only that controller's bumpers to the L/ZL buttons, and continued playing with it fine.
🤔 does it have per-game settings or only per-controller? The latter seems like a bit of a sneaky way to force you to buy more controllers...
@@renakunisaki There's 5 save slots per controller iirc but it really doesn't take that long to change it as it's quite intuitive
"Are you ready? Let's do this" "Absolute nostalgia plays" So happy to see you again Ceave, hope you're doing well ❤
Nintendo: "B-but you have the (extremely hidden) "remap button" options and your console has a volume slider"
Also, online updates seem to encourage a lack of caring in some devs. "We'll fix it later".
I really enjoyed Echos of Wisdom, but definitely felt some major friction in certain parts that would have been easy option toggles in most games. I really don't like the depth of field blur around the screen and would have definitely rebound a few keys. I don't remember which button, but I was misclicking it the entire playthrough; my muscle memory really wanted that action to be on that button and it wasn't
Bro has been making some of the highest quality video game video essays for a year now only for a good chunk of his audience to think he’s gone. Smh
I'm glad the reason for this vid didn't turn out to be just "my arbitrary challenge run was impossible, Nintendo sux". Valid criticism here
I know it's a little late now, but hopefully it helps you and many other people in the comments section: The Nintendo switch actually has a fairly robust button rebinding feature at the OS level. You can change the function of any button on the switch controller in the main switch options menu, but Nintendo doesn't advertise it very well.
This only changes the raw binding buttons. If something requires you to mash A, you still have to mash something, you can just change which button. The unbindable buttons are used as an example of a broader issue.
What i find is that nintendo doesn't care about you being able to play their old games... they want you to buy their latest game and forget old ones can even be played still
Old Nintendo: A Box Garden
New Nintendo: A Walled Garden
Why is everyone acting like Ceave went away for a long time? He just made a video on his second channel.
Really great video. The idea of accessibility being more and more important in the near future as the generations of people who grew up with video games get older and older is something I’ve thought about before but rarely heard anyone discuss. It’s always great to know you’re there to bring interesting and lesser-discussed perspectives to the forefront.
As soon as he said that there's no options in the options menu i instantly knew what he was talking about, the new Mario and Luigi game has a whopping ONE WHOLE OPTION on the options menu, and it's just controller vibration, genuinely comical. I wanted the option to turn the sound effects down and the music up, but apparently that's too much to ask.
I also agree. Nintendo seems to have this idea that their games must be absolutely perfect and any glitch (which you need to go out of your way to actually do) needs to be fixed immediately. They seem to specifically target the very few people who would actually use these glitches for fun or speed runs.
Accessibility options shouldn't be optional anymore. It's a small thing to add to make sure everyone can play games. Something as family focused as Nintendo should really understand that. It's not just families, obviously, but you get my point (I hope)
luckily through emulation you can play whatever version of the game you want with whatever controller layout you want, it's like Nintendo is trying as hard as they can to push people towards emulation
you know this startet sounding like an april fools joke in november with "nyaah they made a mandatory puzzle that needs a certain thing that isn't what i want to use" but it is true that nintendo aggressively goes after do what i tell you. how can rpgs where cutscenes are one of the most important part of the game have option to skip them when a mario yahu wahu bim bim bomb game forces you to see your princess is in another game cutscenes 20 times at full length every game
WAKE UP CEAVE UPLOADED
Nope, allowing you to do Day 1 glitches and skip cutscenes does not affect your accessibility to the game as you age.
The button mapping thing is valid, but I imagine if you have a hand disfiguration you would just use a custom controller.
Nintendo has no obligation to cater to people who do challenge runs, and is playing games like that becomes popular enough, they will eventually cater to those people.
people shouldnt have to get a custom controller especially whenever most other companies provide these options for playing the game how you want to. sadly fanboy loyalty is the death of nintendo innovation
Just watched a ton of Ceave videos and got pretty sad that Ceave hasn't been uploaded recently... and now THIS? Holy fuzzy!
He has a second channel that he's been uploading on more frequently
@captainninja6 Yea, I know... I've just missed his more traditional approach he left to this channel when he decided to split it in two
You know what I hate about Nintendo patching glitches? The fact that these glitches are not things they found but community found things, these are glitches that Nintendo finds by watching other people's UA-cam videos of them having fun with the glitch and then they remove it in the next version. I'd be fine if Character Swap glitch was found in bug testing and patched in the beta versions, what I'm NOT fine with is fun bugs and glitches being patched a few days after release because of people talking about it and having fun
unfortunately the glitch is related to one that could potentially crash the game outright. That's justification enough to patch a glitch regardless of who found them.
@@sinteleon even then it's a single player game with on online multiplayer (at least I don't think so), I would maybe patch out the game crashes especially if it's very very annoying and too easy to trigger, but other fun ones I wouldn't. And they make all of these forced patches, someone told it's because of save data, but even resetting the game entirely doesn't let you downgrade. The Wii U and 3ds let you did.
@@varietychanWould you be onboard with a kid seeing the 'plat as link' glitch in a video, doing the glitch themselves, spending a few hours running around the world doing things ... And then realizing that they've locked themselves out of completing the game, once they go back to the dungeons? That's basically what would happen if they didn't patch the 'play as link' glitch. (Some puzzles require use of the echoes, and that glitch prevents them from being used.)
In cases where the glitch can break the game experience... I want them to patch that.
That same scenario also applies to progression skipping... Which may leave a player in a situation they can't progress from, requiring an entire restart.
@@retnuhytnuob4068 what if, instead of patching the glitch, make it a feature, or fix the bits that are impossible, or add a way to exit the glitched state, outright removing a glitch that has fun uses is the single _worst_ choice to make
@@ThylineTheGay From my understanding, at one point in development, Link was always available for use. Their play testing showed people were using that mode, rather than the echo system they built the game around. - Basically, they had considered it as a feature, and decided it would detract from the overall experience, and added the timer to that mode as a compromise.
Adding the ability to detect the glitch state, and an in game way to leave it would likely be far trickier, and riskier than simply patching the problem point.
I will note that I agree with a suggestion I saw about potentially making the last Link upgrade the removal of the timer for that mode. That would be a fun reward for completionists, while also ensuring that users would use the echo system for most of their playthrough. (And then glitch hunters could try to trigger that upgrade early)
Thank you for the NB callout in the opening.
Its been a very rough time for me personally these past few weeks and stumbling on a subtle nod from my favorite "C" lettered, Nintendo, UA-camr made me stop for a moment.
Thank you Ceave.
@@IHak4UrGane27 That callout almost brought me to tears honestly, and I don’t even live in the US. That kind, empathetic approach to life is what we all need right now.
Gentlepeople!
hello fellow gentlepeople
As a fellow American, I love you just the way you are. Not all of us want you invisible or dead.
i went into these replies fully expecting transphobia and was very very pleasantly surprised. Y'all are great
YOU’RE BACK ON THE CHALLENGE RUNS!!!
Glad to have a new challenge run video! ❤❤❤
Edit: Glad to hear that other people are annoyed by Nintendo’s refusal to make accessibility options and skippable cutscenes.
Please post more on this channel soon!
I think you mean skippable cutscenes
@@devilofether6185 Yes, thank you.
This makes me think of Splatoon 3's Splattercolor screen. I genuinely don't know why they put that accessibility nightmare in the game.
Thank you for foregrounding accessibility. It is an important issue and for better or worse intersects with so many parts of life. Accessibility in gaming is important because it means we can keep playing and interacting with art and that others can as well. Beauty is important, I believe, and beauty that we cannot see, cannot experience, maybe this isn't so much beauty at all.
I've missed bros voice so happy your back!
This was my biggest problem with the Paper Mario remake.
The dialogue in that game is completely unable to be skipped or sped up in any way the first time you see it in a playthrough (if you're seeing the same text again you can skip through it). You're forced to sit through the dialogue at a very slow pace and there is a TON of dialogue. Literally the main reason I haven't gone back to it to do any challenge runs is specifically because I didn't want to be forced to slowly sit through literal hours of dialogue just to get to the parts of the games that I wanted to experience.
Ytps are making a come-back, everyone is complaining about useless commentery/drama chanels
But most importantly ceave is back
Nature is healing, man that shit is beautifull
It's incredibly frustrating, but on top of that in an industry steadily moving towards a standardised suite of accessibility features: colourblind modes, customisable controls, high contrast UIs, options to reduce or eliminate potentially dangerous graphical effects, etc. like... Nintendo just kinda look like bigots.
To clarify, no I don't think that's a cultural thing either. There are always people who'll refuse to go out of their way to help disabled people regardless of where in the world they are, and on the positive side of things, most other games companies the world over, including in japan, do commit to offering accessibility settings and control option. Nintendo just... why?
The legend returns.
He'll factory reset his device to upload impossible levels, but not to beat a game with tables due to cutscenes.
NO game on console allows you to pick a version. That is not a Nintendo specific thing and you really shouldn't act like it is.
Not quite. You could get rid of update data for physical cartridges and play from that on 3ds and wii u
Ceave "Yall know I am not dead right?"
Us "Holy shit he is alive!"
When the world needed him most, he returned
Honestly Nintendo has become extremely authoritarian. At this point if you dont update a game they will probably call you a pirate.
The Lord of the Table: Return of the King
Miyazaki: the difficulty of the game is my vision, I'm not going to add a difficulty setting.
Miyamoto: The only option I *will* give you is a generic difficulty slider.
It's probably the least interesting type of difficulty too, just changing enemy health and damage.
This is a perfect example of the horrifying logical end results of the idea epitomized in the famous quote, "Given the opportunity, players will optomize the fun out of a game."
This quote sets up the developer as the arbiter of fun rather than a facilitar of it, and we can see here that Nintendo, for whatever reason, has embraced this concept. Nintendo has a track record of acting such that that the deloper intended way of play is the _only_ acceptable way to play the game.
The quote is at best incomplete to the sentiment it was originally meant to express. It would be more accurate to say, "Given the opportunity, players will optomize the _developer intended_ fun out of a game." This acknowledes the issue of optimal play sometimes being boring play on the developer end while also allowing for players to have fun in their own way.
> The quote is at best incomplete to the sentiment it was originally meant to express. It would be more accurate to say, "Given the opportunity, players will optomize the developer intended fun out of a game."
I don't think that's the original intent. My understanding of the intent of the quote is "the players will try to optimise even if it's widely inconvenient, so make sure that 'optimising' and 'having fun' are close enough to one another so that they still have fun while optimising".
More precisely, the context is Civilization, which is a game of managing an entire country. The most basic game design mistake you can do in such a game is having a system where the player can micromanage their cities one by one, but not making it so that it is actually fun to do because you wrongfully think "surely it is so tedious that no one in their right mind will do it".
Said otherwise, the intend of the quote is "if you know peoples will speedrun / challenge run / etc, don't deliberately make it inconvenient, because peoples will find a way to do it anyway".
Mark Rosewater from Magic the Gathering design has had some articles that touch on 'optimizing the fun out of the game'... Players ignoring the fun part of the game, if something else gives a better chance to win, even if that alternative is a painful experience. (Nadu being a recent example)
A more Nintendo based scenario is if weapons in Breath of the Wild were cheated to be unbreakable, causing the reward system the developer used throughout the game to no longer be a reward. (And then would complain that none of those mini-challenges are worth it)(I actually did this a bit to myself on ToTK with duplication... and I know that is a contributing factor in my quitting partway through)
Nintendo designs everything targeting a specific experience, and then tries to optimize that experience. And they tend to do an excellent job on that front, partly _because_ they don't have to spend time and effort to design and test a number of variations on that intended experience. -- On the other hand, whether that experience is something others _want_ is a different question. (I'm thinking of the direction they have taken with the Paper Mario series...)
----
The point made in the video about accessibility _is_ something that Nintendo should be taking seriously. - the main aspects being audio level balancing, and avoiding the 'rapid tap' mechanic. (Mario party likely being excepted, for design reasons)
That _doesn't_ mean they would _need_ to add cutscene skipping, or allowing down patching for accessing 'unintended behavior ' that's been patched. (Even if that might be seen as desirable by some percentage of their users) - Any time an unintended behavior is allowed, it has the possibility of making the game unfishable. (The link glitch might be among those .. it seems that locks the user from using the summons... And would prevent the game from being completable, due to element locks... Which may not be realized until hours later.)
For other accessibility considerations, I'd see those as 'nice to have', but can(and maybe should) be handled elsewhere... Color correction by adjusting the settings on the tv, controller remapping by alternate controllers. (Though I'd argue that a base button remap function could potentially be designed into the system's core operating system, allowing it to be optimized at a hardware layer, rather than having the minor performance hit in software every frame.)
This reminds me of a problem I had all the way through my playthrough of TotK.
The game makes lots of use of fog and heavy color grading (I think it's called?), probably as a stylistic choice but likely also to hide imperfections in rendering at a distance because of the Switch's weak hardware. As a visually impaired person, this makes it hard for me to see in a lot of areas in the game and I'd love to have an option, even as an accessibility setting with some kind of disclaimer that it might break things, to reduce the fog in favor of visibility, or just outright turn it off, so that I can play the game better.
I actually ended up using a mod that reduces the amount of fog and yes it caused a few problems in a small amount of areas in the game, but it made the game so much easier for me to play! Why did I have to use a mod for that? If only Nintendo provided any kind of options at all, this likely would've been something I could've solved in a few seconds of menuing rather than something that reduced my enjoyment of the game throughout most of my playthrough for no apparent reason.
When people replay this game in a few decades, maybe they'll find themselves wishing for more accessibility options too, just like I do today.
And it was halfway through a 30-minute video, when the narrator complained about NPCs talking to much for no reason after spending 15 minutes using a bunch of words to say nothing, that I realized the narrator might be a bit of a hypocrite, and clicked away from the video.
Yes, this video basically starts at 15 min in for no reason. Big waste of time
i dont have any issues but I really appreciate it when games have anti-mashing accessibility.
Babe wake up, new Ceave Gaming video
Fundamentally, this is a discussion of if games are closer to Art or toys/just software.
If you think of them as pure art, mods or alternative play challenges are absurd. It would be like if someone took out of the Shining all scary scenes, decided to read Moby Dick skipping pages, or watch Romeo and Juliet and leaving before the ending. You can do it if you want, but nobody would say you engaged with the art piece, just parts of it. If someone plays Mario Wonder as intended, and someone else plays it by purposely minimising coin touching, they did not play the same game.
If you think of them as toys/software, who cares about the intended design? Go nuts! Add Thomas the Tank Engine to Skyrim, play BoTW only using sticks, make a Pokémon Emerald Randomiser. The software is there to be enjoyed however you want, the developers only made the assets for you to have a starting point.
I personally side extremely to the Art side of the spectrum, even if this means some games are inaccessible for some people. Gaming being interactive art to me does not fundamentally change the idea that art should not be made accessible at the compromise of its vision. If a game is designed to be very dark such that it is very hard to see, I will assume and defend that as the intent before I ask for brightness settings. However, if someone wants to mod brightness in, I will not oppose them doing it, just personally disagree.
Art can and always will be changed over and over again, not only by the artist but by others. Thats the beauty of art, everyone experiences and interacts with it differently. Forcing people to view your art a specific way is not only arrogant and elitist its also disrespectful to the creativity of others. So yes, video games are art. Which is why believing your interpretation of your art is the ONLY one, the CORRECT one, is fundamental flawed. Art, unlike a math equation, can't be "right" or "wrong" and you rightfully have no control over what people perceive your art to be, as we are all free to experience different things.
@@shineseeker7 Nope, the Mona Lisa has not changed over time. How people interpret, appreciate and value a piece of art changes over time, but the piece itself does not in the vast majority of cases. In the case the art does change, it is usually restored to its original state, or an attempt is made to do so.
I literally never said my interpretation of art is the only correct one.
@@shineseeker7 Just ignore him man, he's clearly not worth it.
Video games aren’t an art. They has certain aspects of it thats artistic but they’re games first on a fundamental level before anything. Video games are characterized by their gameplay, game design, and game mechanics. It's what makes them distinct from all other mediums. Would you call Football or Chess an art? You wouldn't buy Monopoly and expect a piece of art. However, some tabletop games feature very nice artwork and even come with a story, especially if they're co-op based board games. Those are forms of artistic expression but it doesn't make board games categorically a pure art-form.
Video games are, first and foremost, a digital variant of traditional games, such as chess. Nintendo was a playing card company for several decades before they even entered the video game market.
@@radiorah768 I would indeed call Football, Chess, and Monopoly art.
WELCOME BACK CEAVE!
I just want to leave a very loving dump of admiration here. Just a couple of days ago i thought to myself "is this ceave gaming guy still active" and more importantly is his cat that stole all our loving hearts still there of course...
Welcome back! It has been forever!!!
The reason is simply: because they don't want new players from skipping dialogues‚ from finding glitches and from messing up their controls. They think the game is worse if those things are in it‚ and the good of the second playthrough is negligible in their eye compared to the first one. That's all. They are proud of their game‚ and they don't want people to not be able to experience its greatness because of anything‚ even their own choice.
Oh Great Ever Living Dangerous List of Evil++! The Ceave Gaming Channel is back!