5 Reasons NOT To Buy a 90s Mountain Bike
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- Опубліковано 2 сер 2024
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90s mountain bikes are a thing. BUT, here are 5 reasons you SHOULDN'T buy a 90s mountain bike.
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Too late! Just pulled a 1990 Trek 930 from the dumpster. It will become my commuter here in Breckenridge
Awesome 👏
Half my bikes came from dumpsters. Wtf is wrong with people, at least sell it or put a free sign.
Love my Trek 930 commuter
Trek Singletrack 900s are classic.
Got my 950 from the thrift store. It was expensive at 40 bucks (they usually go for 10 to 15 bucks, so someone knew it was a good bike). My wife thought I was crazy for buying it. I love riding it (same tires as this guy's paramount) and rips. I love working on bikes, and went through everything, grease, cables, cleaning, new bars, seat, etc. But, all the shifters, brakes, etc. still worked great. It is a fast little bike! Light and strong.
I'm currently working on a time machine so that I can travel back to the 90s and warn people about gravel bikes before it's too late.
What will hipsters ride with no gravel bikes?
@@bradsanders6954 i think hipsters ride fixed gear 🤔 glampers ride gravel 😁
@@bradsanders6954 hipsters ride fixies!
@@bradsanders6954 Where do hipsters ride gravel bikes? The ones I see ride bullhorns and super narrow flats on fixies and single speeds.. hipsters are buying up all the 70s road bikes, not the 90s MTBs.
Gravel bike wasnt a thing before but some MTBs ran and offered dirt drop mtbs.
Us old guys who started riding in the 80s still really enjoy these bikes. I get where you are coming from. But in a fashion, folks new to riding are probably in your camp and you are 100% correct. I just really enjoy doing restoring & riding old bikes.
At a certain point,a bike is a bike. Not every bike is a gravel bike.......some feel the need for every ride to be a gravel ride on a gravel bike..........its about the latest "hip marketing scheme" the industry has come up with.............along with 1X.
I don't buy into the latest fad ether.
As an old guy who started riding in '80... I'm in Russ' camp on this. I find Modern bikes tend to be more comfortable and easy to ride. I also find them (mostly) easier to work on, for example, I don't need 3 different tools to remove a bottom bracket and swapping stems is trivial (I don't miss having to snake a handlebar out of a quill stem). I do get the appeal of "Vintage" stuff (cool old books are my bag). FWIW, I still ride that '80s MTB, and meh...really loved it then, love my "modern" bikes more.
@@jed7644 It's all relative. On one hand, I could say I started riding in the 80s if you count my plastic three wheeler! :D. I started riding as an adult in the mid to late oughts though... a twenty year difference just based on how I frame it. For some reason, I only start with my adult riding time and ignore my BMX and department store bikes that came in between.
@@jed7644 What's funny?
Lol 🙌 thanks for the shout out. 😂🤣😂
You two guys are my favorite youtubers so far
'90s mountain bikes make for some of the VERY best expedition touring bikes. Great CroMoly steel frame, with a robust frame design and sturdy wheels, right there. Add racks front & rear, mudguards, lights, some nice panniers and you are right tour the world.
I am in the group of bicycle lovers who has plenty of space, all the tools, and the the dough to modify, repair, and maintain my small stable of 90s mountain bikes. I enjoy riding my vintage bikes as much as I like riding my modern Lynskeys, All Citys, and Surlys.
I bought three vintage steel Gary Fisher frames online and built them up using a combination of parts from the bin and parts from online vendors. In doing so, I became a better bicycle mechanic. The joy that comes from building one's bike is immeasurable.
Long live all bicycles.
Another Gary Fisher rider here. Blue Tassajara'86. I love days when I get on this pony.
I have all the money too! lol
As an old bike enthusiast I have lived through all of these points. But i still love taking something unloved and about to be thrown out and turning into a work of mechanical art. I still do wish could afford something modern but I spent all my money on parts and tools.
Nothing quite beats a 90s MTB with really well adjusted center pull cantilever brakes (buttery smoothness only riveled by disconnected brake levers paired with braking performance better than most OEM mechanical disc brakes), perfectly adjusted cup and cone bearings, lightning quick shifting, and good hand built wheels (particularly if you used butted spokes and a tubeless rim) for commuting, light bikepacking, and flat bar gravel biking. Modern MTBs are just a tad over-built and too race-oriented, same goes for many modern gravel bikes. It is also way easier to completely strip down 90s MTBs down to the individual ball bearing and bushings than modern stuff. Modern stuff is more robust and work better, make no mistake, but are far more complex and less adjustable. I also find 29ers a bit cumbersome and prefer the zippiness of old 26" bikes.
I really enjoy polishing old components like the Deore DX 650 groupset to a mirror shine, just because I can.
@@nicojar Cantilevers are really hard to set up. Once they are set up they work extremely well. You can get them to have an extremely light lever pull until pad contact.
OEM disc brakes can be absolutely, unimaginably terrible. I'm not talking about proper disc brakes, I'm talking about cheapo disc brakes and/or V brakes. Those just don't work well no matter how you bed them in.
All the examples you provided are far more expensive than an old MTB, even with upgraded tubeless wheels (26" tubeless rim wheels are still being made). I should know, I have a modern Breezer Thunder 29er. That thing is really comfortable for long bike packing runs, is extremely overbuilt to confidently take the load, and is extremely stable fully laden. It also costs more than 3 times my friend's old Marin Pine Mountain (repairs included), and twice my friend's 2007 Jamis Dakar (new tubeless wheels, hydraulic brakes, and pivot bearings included). The vast majority of bikes nowadays are race-oriented.
If you have the budget, then anything modern will absolutely stomp the older stuff. However, if you cannot afford proper modern stuff then I'd argue older MTBs will outperform anything you can buy new.
When buying a 90s mtb, I find it best to consider the price as frame only cost. If any other parts are salvageable, that’s a bonus. The sweet spot seems to be those years when threadless headsets were becoming more common, with a modern square taper bb/crankset, but before everything went aluminum with a short travel suspension fork. They make great urban commuters and bikes that can be locked up in cities without drawing too much attention from thieves. Shame the prices have sky-rocketed over the past few years.
I've found those old Deore derailleurs and loose ball bearings were built to last. Other than contact points and consumable parts, the only parts that consistently need restoring or replacing are trigger shifters
The venerable Trek 800 series Antelope- lockup bike to rule them all
@@geoma-projects really, trigger shifters? Any indexed shifter ive come into has been easily fixed with some wd-40 and new grease. Saves 20$
Sounds like a better project for someone like me who has been working on his own bikes since the 80's. It's my recent bikes that are making me have to continually buy new tools.
From a shop owner perspective, I fully agree. The number of bottom bracket tools we've had to buy over the last few years for new standard rivals the number of freewheel tools once needed.
Absolutely this. I've been maintaining bikes since the late 80s but my gf's MTB has disc brakes and I live in fear of the first brake bleed :-)
Funny actually, I've started working on bikes in the last few years. When I see 'vintage' road frames or 90's bikes, I avoid them because I know I won't have any components/tools to work on them.
Instant gratification is hard to come by in cycling with the exception of buying a new bicycle. Building your bicycle is an equal part of cycling as an experience. As you know when you build your bicycles there is an intimacy that develops. Your bicycle stops being that shiny toy / Instant gratification and becomes a family member and part of you. This kind of experience is lost on those who buy the newest bicycle only to ride that for a season and then sell it for the next newest bicycle. It is kind of a racer mentality that has splashed on the yuppies and other non-racers. The same also generally do not work on their own bicycles. I find this to be a huge divider in the cycling community. Soul bicycling vs. ego bicycling. I choose Soul. Cheers M8
An interesting thing I've noticed in the last 10 years is the disappearance of the frame or frameset as a purchase option. Given how much a bike needs to be adapted to suit the rider, building your own bike should be a lot more common these days than it is.
Great comment! I agree
@@devononair I noticed while searching online nowadays majority of frames come with a fork pre-installed thus rare to find a frame that suits me without a fork. What if I just want the frame and not the fork, no options to remove fork. Kind of sucks but I will just get with the times and buy the frame and fork then sell the fork if need to.
I agree with everything. in this period I have lots of free time and absolutely zero money, so going for an old Scott Sawtooth (probably '92-'93) was the way to go
it's been kinda fiddly to raise the bars a bit, but in the end I got myself a nice durable steel bike with 3x7 cantilever groupset, which is easy to maintain, with relatively cheap and easy to find spare parts - more often than not buying another whole used bike with the parts you need is cheaper than sourcing new parts. does it have the best handling? what do I know, probably not, but let's just ride reasonably priced bikes and especially ride what we have
Anyway that's all thanks to you Russ, before going party pace I used to wear spandex and torture my butt on 23s, while getting my feet either frozen in the winter or boiled in the summer in the one pair of spd shoes I could afford
I still have my 90s Univega Alpina Pro. I use it for my 1.2 mile commute to work. That little two and a half mile round trip cures me of any urge to take it beyond the city limits where my Surly rules.
Yep, agree 100%. I rode mtn bikes back in the 80's-90's. My wrists, neck, and elbows hurt just thinking about those bikes.
Those old univega really were stretchers. Long top tubes with even longer stems. But they had some nice frames and forks, iirc my Alpina 5.7. weighs fork and frame 1.9 kg.
Just stumbled across this video as well...
I bought a Univega Alpina S6.3 new in '94 (the one with the "splatter" paint scheme), and it's still a great bike!
Because life got in the way, I've only put about 4000 pavement miles on it (I put a "street" freewheel & tires on it after I got it home), but it's been kept indoors its entire life, and still looks and rides like new.
I look at new bikes and think about getting one - then I look at the price tags: naw...
None of these reasons seem particular to 90’s bikes Russ. Each era of bikes has their own peculiarities. I have three vintage mtbs and have found all the tools, parts, readily available. Conversely - I’d have to get new tools if I bought a disc brake, external bottom bracketed bike.
I love your content as always, but feel like the title is a little misleading. Here in Denver metro, still abundant as ever. Maybe more accurate title would be “five frustrations I had with 90’s mtb’s.”
Got a DB ascent from the 90’s two months ago for just $20 on market( ik I totally stole it) it was in great condition besides for the classic gunky 3x7 sti shifters. Short long story, converted in 1x10, throw some kyote bars and that was it. End result, the thing totally rips! Can’t wait to ride it through all the season!
I've got an early 90s DB Axis. Absolutely love it with a 1x8 drivetrain, drop bars, and brooks B17 saddle.
How hard was the 1x10 conversion? What drivetrain did you go with?
@@NZHarrySingh I replaced the original tapered square bottom bracket with a modern Shimano external BB and Deore crank set (converted to 1x using a Wolftooth 36 narrow-wide chain ring)... Rear mech is an old-but-high-quality (90s era, I'm guessing) Shimano that I had in the parts bin, tied to a bar-end friction shifter I sourced online. Not a difficult job at all with proper tools. I was once a professional bike mechanic, though, so I suppose it's relative to your comfort level working on bicycles. That's the beauty of youtube, though, there are bound to be several videos of every step.
@@NZHarrySingh Depends on spacing and rear hub. If the rear hub is a freewheel then you will need a new hub (or rear wheel). For shimano 7-10 road and 7-9 MTB the rear derailleurs are interchangeable. If it is a cassette then you should be able to just put a 10 speed cassette (unless your unlucky and it is a true 7 speed hub). Now if you are keeping with flat bar shifter you will need a new shifter for index or use friction if you got that setting. If you are going with drop bars and you rear mech is shimano you can just get shimano/ microtech / sensah /ltoo drop bar shifter and your good to go. If the bike is steel and you started with a freewheel you can just spread the rear triangle a bit to fit the new/used/rebuilt wheel (you can re space the rear triangle but that is not necessary). Your 7 speed crank and chain rings will work on an 1x10 a narrow wide chairing would help with chain drops if you want to remove the front derailleur, other wise keep the derailleur on as a chain guide.
@@NZHarrySingh wasn’t really hard to be honest, and definitely not need to be a professional bike mechanic as @zalsentzer (no offense), just need the right tools, parts, youtube and to be a bit handy.
In my case I used a 90’s old deore triple crankset 110bcd converted to 1x with a 38t narrow wide chainring and combined with 10 speed deore shifter and deore xt derailleur with clutch, and lastly a 10 speed 11-42 deore cassette. To fit the cassette I used a different wheelset that I have it from another bike with a 135mm hub that could take 8 speed or more to avoid having to touch the frame. I know It’s sounds like a lot and it could be an expensive conversion but if you look in the right places it can be done for $150 or even less.
I got a 1989 Bridgestone MB-2 a couple years ago and I love it. It’s my all-road bike. I loved it so much, a year later I found a 1989 MB-4 in a rad 90’s colorway. 26 inch is not dead!!
A well rounded and balanced commentary. I love my early 90s Diamondback Axis, kitted out with drop bars and a 1x8 drivetrain. Works great as my daily commuter, a touring rig, and also a dirt/gravel bomber. Bought it for $200 and probably have another $200 into it. It's fun, one-of-a-kind, fits me great, and gets a lot of compliments.
love old mtbs, all your points are accurate. Please keep pointing out while the old MTBs are bad so the prices drop!
All of these same reasons can be applied to buying any older bike. I will say that is part of the fun and charm- reviving something old, and giving it a new life. Finding an old part, and getting an eclectic and personalized mismatch of parts is part of making a bike unique. Who else will have a build like it?? So many new bikes completely lack that personal touch, and everyone has the same bike lol : )
Pretty fair assessment of the hassles. To avoid some of them, get one with a 1 1/8 steerer tube. I got a 96 GF Hoo Koo (triple butted True Temper) and replaced the Rockshox fork with a Surly Troll fork. Unfortunately, Surly has stopped making them.
There were lots of great lightweight all around steel frames back then in regular production, I don't think there's anything like that now unless you get a custom.
yeah, one good thing about this fashion for gravel are rigid forks with rivets - but damn, they sell them only in sets apparently :(
To be clear, the Paramount in this video has a 1-1/8 steerer tube. But since it's threaded, it requires a 25.4mm quill stem, unlike the 1" threaded steerer tubes that take a 22.2mm quill stem. Agree that a 1-1/8 non threaded steerer tube avoids some hassles.
Got a 97 Hoo Koo e Koo a couple of years ago. I love it. It's taken me on some long trips the last two years.
Still enjoy my 3X7 steel frame mountain bike from the 90's.
ME TOO! I have a similar machine that I bought new in 1999, and I still have it. I had it overhauled at the LBS earlier this spring, and I've been enjoying it again... :)
It’s the tinkering that makes them fun! Capable too, but like… I like new bikes too.
I totally agree. I also was mountain biking, high school and college, in the 90’s so there is that nostalgic appeal for me also.
I agree! As someone who follows both of your channels and rode through the 90’s on a Pro-Flex, it’s nice to appreciate them for all their short comings too. My friends laughed the first time they heard chain slap while we rolled through a trail on my 90’s Paragon.
I found a '93 Novara "Pro Ultimate" MTB with Tange Ultralight tubing and built it out last summer with 2.3 RH tires, Velocity A23 rims, wide drop bars, and spare parts bar-end shifters and V-brakes. Only kept the seat-post and original MTB triple, $950 all told. It does exactly what I wanted it to do- handles steep forest service road rocks & ruts and is pretty damn light for a steel frame. AND it's newer than my 650b '83 Trek conversion ; ) so I don't miss brifters and disc brakes bc I've never gone there...
I still have my 1998 Specialized M2 that I bought new in 98 in Great Falls MT. I have kept it upgraded and running great over the years, 100mm of front travel and 20lbs with Crossmax wheels. It sits along side my 29er Enduro/Trail bike and I ride it few times a month for base miles. My kids and GF even put miles on it from time to time.
Still have my '82 Klein, as the original owner. But after riding the cockpit of a contemporary mountain bike (custom LaMere), the main factor for not riding my Klein is the safety factor. The Klein, and in fact all mountain bikes of that era, has the long stem/forward weight that puts much reliance on the handlebars for support. I have to keep a firm, conscience grip on the bars, and the two times that I fell off the bike was when the grip was loosened, the hands came off the bars, and the forward weigh caused an immediate crash. The contemporary mountain bike is so much more secure feeling.
I love my rock hopper, part of the pleasure was building it up from a frame. I couldn’t afford this bike as a teen so as an old fart I get to play bike shop. I am expecting spokes in the mail tomorrow, so I get to build a reliable modern wheel set for it to replace the co-op get me riding wheels. This will be my fifth set of wheels I have built for the family fleet and that always comes with the challenge of knowing when to stop. This is a fun bike for me. I encourage everyone to look for the bike that’s right for them and go for it. I tried for the past three years to become a roadie, I just didn’t get the joy from childhood on those delicate machines. This thing brings back the joy!
Good video, though I disagree with your central premise. The fact that it will probably turn out to be a project is a good reason to seek one of these bikes out. DON’T buy one if you don’t want to learn anything about working on bikes. But if you are mechanic curious, they’re a fantastic place to learn and really really hard to damage with mistakes. Also, 130/135 is pretty much interchangeable, and by the 90s very few even halfway decent bikes of whatever brand were still running freewheels. BUT avoid Suntour indexing just because replacement parts are really hard to find. Regarding price - what people are asking and what they’re getting are two very different things. I’m in Portland and even here a bit of diligence will get you a 90s Rockhopper or Hardrock for $75-$150 in a month of searching Craigslist and Offerup. Finally, the real deals are 90s hybrids. Unless you’re absolutely set on 26” wheels, you can get a similarly spec’d 700c “dad bike” that’s just as much fun, especially with the great selection of 700c gravel tires available.
i agree. some of Russ' frustrations with hunting are a function of where he lives, not the supply where more people live. The last three mtb's I've purchased have all been under $80. Replacing cables and housing is what you should do for any bike tune up, so not really a function of all 90's bikes. The parts, tools, etc... have all been pretty easy for me to find on ebay or amazon.
Agreed. 90's bikes, of which I have a few ( Miyata Ridgrunner and Specialized FSR) were so much more easy to work on than some of the more hi tech modern stuff. Even my custom pre Stumpjumper late 70's Marin County rig has the similar mechanics of 90's bikes. They were uncomplicated mechanics.
Having the same experience with a 1989 Schwinn Impact my Father-In-Law gave me. At first glance it looked very similar to my gravel bike, but I've gone through all the things you discussed! Still trying to dial in the fit a year later, not always as simple as it sounds. Overall cheaper than a new bike, but only if you know what you're doing. Unmatchable style though, the Schwinn gets more compliments and envy than any other bike I own.
There are shops not real far from here that have boxes and boxes of used parts for these older bikes..............trying to buy new will be a pain and pricey.
Reasons NOT to buy a modern bicycle:
- shortage for replacement parts
- replacement parts are very expensive
- modern frames and parts tend to be less durable and long lasting
I agree 👍 💯. You can find nice 80s lugged frames and decent 3x8 drive train. I always see 8spd cassettes and chains for a lot cheaper than xt replacement parts.
I think some people get oversold on high end components and never realize they are probably not necessary for bike touring, sight seeing, and commuting.
Bicycling has become very complicated and I thought I needed to spend at least 1500-2000 to get a decent bike. But the price tag was mainly Magura hs11 hydraulic brakes and xt .
I upgraded seat post, and Wald basket, brooks, handlebars ( more upright)
I do love the hub dynamo light shimano xt. It is a life saver.
I could have done a custom build at dealer where I put the money into what I needed. I do not use 3x10. 3x8 would have been better for me and cheaper to maintain.
I am definitely wanting to down grade and already bought the components
Hey! I haven’t tried to convert a 90’s mountain bike to a gravel bike but I did try to convert a 90’s hybrid bike into a gravel bike. It was from an era when companies would quite often take their road bike frames and put cantilever brakes on it.
It’s pretty cool how many modern parts worked on it and it turned out cheaper than a new bike would’ve cost.
Love your videos and keep up the good work 🙂👍
So the Crust, Rivendell and Bearclaw are safe for now!
I've only recently started actual mountain biking, but I have been riding mountain bikes since the 90's. Whenever I needed a new bike my choices were a fragile road bike, a nerdy looking hybrid, or an entry level mtb. I always went with the mtb.
I think you missed a couple of thing that make vintage Mtn bikes cool. Particularly when it comes to lugged steel bikes. They are tough as hell. Simple to work on(serviceable),and just have a certain style factor that is hard to find in modern bikes. I was around during this era and yes there was experimentation/innovation that did not stand the test of time i.e. Biopace rings, and suspension stems, however if you can find old parts or adapt newer parts they make great bikes and are usually affordable. P.S I have been working on my own bikes since the 90s(so I have those old tools) ,basically because I want the work done right and cannot find or afford to pay others to do the work for me.
Like I said, this video isn’t about what I LIKE about them. That is coming in a different video.
I love this whole project, and the hard snark that it comes from. I appreciate the very reasonable takes you have here, your downsides are measured, and I am looking forward to the flipside video. Keep up the fun content.
I got into bikes over a decade ago when I was much more poor. It was spotting good quality 90s mtbs at thrift stores, garage sales and on Craigslist which got me into the whole cycling scene. Back then people didn't verify the market prices of old bikes as diligently as they do now. I remember picking up the last gen Single Track Trek that had a lugged true temper frame for only 40 bucks! Yeah, I've got friends into vintage clothes and vintage vinyl records and just like us retro bike guys you're constantly sifting through all the bargain bins of your local 2nd hand seller.
I work at a bike salvage collective and this is the thing I have to explain more and more about old bikes. They need SO MUCH. they are OLD. things get old and rot like plastic in the sun! It's so so great that you point out how this is a thing if you have a place to help and lots of time.
Ayyyyy glad you mentioned the oddball "standards" of the past. Almost two years looking for a 23.3mm seatpost, and it didn't fit lol
Thats the skinniest seatpost ive ever heard of!
I inherited a 90s mountain bike from my older siblings as I grew up and have never upgraded. Maybe someday I will, but so far it has been cheep to maintain at a LBS, adequate for gravel/rail trails/commuting/races I don’t plant to win, and I worry that it will end up in a landfill if I get rid of it. Also, less worried it’s going to get stolen from the rack at work. 🤷♀️maybe I would change my mind if I knew what I was missing with a “real” gravel bike? Who knows.
Everything you said is all part of the joy of going through an old bike. I grew up when mountain biking 1st started and I could not afford most of these older bikes. I have well over 30 of them now and the nostalgia of riding one each time brings a whole different kind of experience that my more modern bikes bring. Every time that piece of history brings back so many memories of bike shops from the nineties and me drooling all over myself. I’m 90’s bike rich now.😂
90s mtbs are the new crypto.
@@PathLessPedaledTV cheap thrills 😁
"well over 30" ... would really love to see your storage system!
@@saintless I have a manufacture facility so there’s lots of space. I have run out of room until I do something different.
You're not wrong. I came into MTB around 91 so I grew up on them. I have gotten 3 fixable 90's bikes from thrift stores for less than $50 each. They were mid range bike shop bikes in their time and aren't XT level bikes so I don't feel the need to chase original parts and just replace what needs replaced with modern mid range components. I ride them as an ATB so set them up for my needs. I'm not trying to hit most of the trails that I ride my modern MTB. There's a couple that are fun to take them on, bringing less bike to a trail adds a little technical and fun element but nothing serious. So I wouldn't try to sell anyone on one though. If it's you, it's you. If not it's cool too.
I lived in Marin in the 90s. Rode almost every day. Hung onto my old Fisher for decades. Dusted it off a few years ago and could believe how horrid it was and gave it away the next week.
I fixed up my dad's old Hkek thinking I'd fall back in love with it. Constantly felt like I was going to go over the bars. Sold it just a few weeks after completing the restoration.
Same here. I rebuilt my 2000 Giant Xtc. Took it to my trails to try it out. So sketchy and scary I sold it the next day.😅
These comments are great! I rode mtn bikes too back in the 80s -90's. OMG the pain after 30 miles bouncing around and in the rocky, rutted SoCal mountains. I stuck with road and touring bikes. About five years ago I tried a 29er, with 2.6" tires, Fox 34 fork, light wheels, disc brakes, Jones H-Bar, the bike is safer and more comfy for an old guy taking it easy on smooth off-road stuff. Happy trails!
I find the trick is never to ride anything made after the millenium :-)
Love the video! As somebody who lives near old shovel I can agree that bikes are ludicrously cheap here. That said, these are really good points that anyone considering 90s vintage restoration should consider. Great job Russ.
Really hit the nail on the head! Rode the heck out of my old '80s MTB and loved it through the '90s (50cm seat tube and 58cm top tube, yeah just a tad aggressive) I still ride it, but it just doesn't measure up to my newer "all road" bike in any aspect (well, it does beat it in weight...by about 8#, lol)
And with the tools, ugh! freewheel remover collection: SunTour, Shimano, the other Shimano, Campagnolo, ?? not sure but I needed it once. bottom bracket tool collection: "pin" wrench for the left cup (IIRC there were 2 "standard" diameters), lock ring wrench, "big" wrench for right cup, Headset "thin" wrench collection. And on older bikes, some had English gauged hardware...
And cost is right on, there is almost always some hidden issues when fixing/servicing/upgrading old bikes and even used parts add up pretty quickly, if you can find them (or a decent substitute).
Great video, as usual, Russ! Luckily, I live in a place that seems to have lots of 90s mountain bikes for sale and they sometimes are offered at reasonable prices. I restore and rebuild them as a hobby and get a lot of joy out of returning them to a near mint condition and getting them back on the road or trail. So, I have the tools and the time, so that's not an issue for me. When I need to replace a quill mtb stem, I will sometimes use a quill to threadless adapter. I find that a 90s mtb with a modern cockpit is usually quite comfy. Keep up the great videos. Thanks for putting yourself out there. -Mike's Bikes Work
Pretty accurate! Other factors apply - the frames can be top notch for daily road use - but when you load them they're unsafe because they're not shocked - they're just springy. It's very worthwhile to upgrade the rear to 11 speed Deore 5100, but not the front drive. I now have a 33 speed Trek Antelope. It fits me great, it's very light, but I have high BMX bars and a giga-seat on it. I may put full fenders on it and a street-legal moped kit to license it for an 80cc 2-stroke that used to be easy... I bought free-hub mag wheels to kill the woes of the former freewheel and spokes era, and I may eventually update the crank. But it will never be a heavy, long, stable e-cargo bike.
Good lord people are really unironically asking 4-digit prices for Bridgestone MBs these days
Bikes can become classics just like cars. The MB-1 is one of those vintage bikes that have become desirable to collectors.
I’m a taller guy and I find that most 90’s mtb’s have 26” wheels. So, I have to find taller steering stems and seat posts to fit the bike to me. But, I never pay more than $40 for a project bike. The last one I found was sitting out by someone’s trash pile.
The reason that I like 90’s bikes is because they are durable. I love working on these steel framed bikes and bringing them back to life. My biggest issue is dialing in the cantilever brakes.
Presumably you saw Russ's guide to cantilever setup? Just came out two days ago if you haven't! I went with v-brakes for my restoration but I have cantis on my touring bike.
'most 90’s mtb’s have 26” wheels'.. all 90's mtb's have 26" wheels.
@@petesmitt
there were some oddballs, but those also weren't marketed as MTBs even if they were obviously based on upsized 26ers and used the same tubing. So yeah, i guess you're right.
@@petesmitt Some were 650b and 650c, and there were 96ers and 69ers in the 90s.
I'm 6'4 and usually ride with slammed stems, and raised seats.
Very fair and thoughtful video, I would say a couple years after this one represent the true apotheosis of the form. Threadless stems and v-brakes really were improvements, to me at least. Cheers!
Hi!! Super interested in your content! Thanks!! With the help of your videos I finally pulled a trigger and just purchased a SNC 4130 all roads yesterday. Can’t wait! But I wanted to ask : how can I get a party pace decal!?
Just found a 1991 Scott Boulder for free. Recognized the old DX and LX parts and took it home. After cleaning and adjusting it runs like new. Like it. Have a 2019 29 inch hard tail full XT that I never use.
I like these small light bikes. Quality of gearsets are really good.
Russ makes a lot of good points that you sometimes don't see explored in the videos on maintaining and upgrading or modifying these old bikes. I have a 1991 Trek 990 that I converted to a gravel bike. I've enjoyed riding the bike and have put several thousand miles on it in the last couple of years.
As Russ points out, there are a number of areas where standards don't match newer components. I had to use shims on both the quill stem and seat post. I was able to get a set of Shimano Claris components to work for the brifters and the rear derailleur. In the end, I refurbed the front derailleur and used a Microshift bar end shifter. The Claris front derailleur would have required a custom clamp or some such modification that I wasn't finding available. This was to maintain a 3x8 drive train. I wasn't interested in some sort of kludged together 1x mullet, you lose too much gear range with most of those setups, and I wanted a practical, do-all bike, not just a groovy bar cruiser. I used a set of Ritchey Venture Max bars (one of Russ' former favorites).
My original target for this build was to ride the Around the Rocks, a 154 mile circumnavigation of the Grand Tetons in a day. It is about half and half, gravel and paved. The bike, although maybe a little heavy (just over 30 pounds), worked out well for that ride. I've done some bikepacking and a lot of other gravel and paved riding on it.
Would I do it again? I already owned the frame and a set of newer wheels for it. I bought the shifters and derailleurs as well as a new stem and seat post. It was an interesting project and has been a useful and fun bike. But, you have to like tinkering with bikes, have the tools, and have some lengths of patience and spare time to put one of these builds together.
I am 53 years old. I had 90's mountain bikes. I would not trade my gravel bike for one at all. I wouldn't mind having one to scoot around the neighborhood on with my wife, but that would be the extent of it.
A gravel bike is equivalent to a road bike, not a mountain bike.. 90's mtb's are a unique bike era, with non suspension geometry, ideal for urban and non tech trail riding; modern mtb's have sophisticated suspension derived from motorcycles designed to cope with severe off-road use, but if you aren't an adrenaline junkie and just like to ride relaxing trails, all that heavy suspension tech is wasted.
I didn’t have to go out and buy a 90’s MTB, I bought my Specialized Rockhopper in 1996. Still loving it after all these years. Some of the changes you mentioned I have done over the years - like raising the bars. And you are quite right about the difficulty on getting some of the parts - particularly on the drive train. Lots of fun and lots of miles.
Yeah same here. I didn't have to buy a bike. I just got it out of the shed.
Hello Russ, My wife and I still have our 90's mountain bikes, a Paramount PDG 30 and my Bridgestone MB-2 which I use daily this time of year for getting around on our eastern oregon farm which includes a steep vineyard. I recently changed the bars to the VO left bank that look like the new bars you put on the PDG 20. Very comfortable but with the change in my weight distribution, I have lost a lot of handling on the steep switchbacks that I encounter. Its great on a flat trail but now bad on the steep stuff. Can no longer make sharp turns on a slope. They are great bikes.
I tend to customize every bike I ride so the ability to buy an old ten-speed or early mountain bike cheaper is appealing. Plus I have learned lots of useful skills if the bike breaks down even on a ride odds are I can fix it.
I've converted my Raleigh M50 to a street cruiser. Upright with 2.5 tires and 27 speeds Delore XT. Its the most comfortable ride for my 6'6' frame. Bit of toe overlap but not hitting tech trails.
The solution - buy an 80’s mountain bike instead. In my case 1987 Ritchey Uktra.
#6: sky high bottom bracket (I like them low for commuting) ... #1: threaded headset #2: fork legs too spindly for disk brake conversion #3: rear brake cable routed for center pull cantilevers; no cable stop for V-brakes #2: diagonal or horizontal dropouts when you want to use a derailleur and convert the frame to disc brake #1: weird seat post sizes. But to me, the benefits outweigh the downside: #1) Just look at that tapered diameter, double and triple butted chromoly steel 2) comes with fork 3) rack and fender mounts 4) proper geometry 5) cost, of course
I love 80s-90s mtbs. I like the geometry compared to specialized mtbs, it's more road like. I currently have an '83 Schwinn High Sierra. I hate the prices they go for, most of the time. All around decent urban bikes.
I wasn't into mountain biking in the 90's. I bought my first full suspension 29er MTB in 2014 and started racing XC after I gave up dirt bike racing which I was doing in the 90's. Fast forward to 2023, I had a friend that was going to trash a 1996 Gary Fisher Mamba and I told him I would take it. This old bike is so much fun to ride at my local MTB trails. I love the feel of this bike and it always puts a smile on my face. Naturally it's no downhill shredder but these bikes wasn't designed to be. It's geared more towards your local intermediate single track trails. The only thing I did was put some new tires on and tune it up. Everything from the 3x7 to the narrow bars. It's just fun. I think many people think you have to have a new bike or the latest technology to go fast. Rider fitness will always overcome any technology that's on the market. In my opinion it's about having fun and enjoying every pedal stroke on whatever trails you are riding.
All great points, Russ. I had a 93 trek 930 for a couple years. I really liked it, with some caveats. I got a fab deal on it, and had a buddy with a fab home workshop help refurbish it -- so I didn't run into a lot of trouble with the tool issue you mention, though I certainly see how one could. I ran it with a variety of handlebars over the time I had it, and liked really swept back bars the best. The point you make about the LOW stack is really true. I always felt like it was both too small (short) and too big (long) for me. I sold it to an acquaintance whose daughter gives it the proper love.
I also have fixed up a ‘93 Trek 930 (green w rigid fork) and it is pretty great. The seat cluster lug is comically robust. I was able to use a riser bar from a ‘91 Bianchi I used to own and with the stock stem it works great. Where I had to bite the bullet was the wheelset, which I replaced with a new one, way lighter with better rims and a freehub, so I could use a wide range cassette and switch to 1x. So as Russ says, not cheap as it all totaled $500 in the end but the frame was mint so I’m happy and the bike is great fun.
I picked up a '92 Trek 930 this winter. With mostly parts I already had I turned it into a really fun 1X bike that's very capable. The frame is LUGGED. As Grant P. said in the recent interview here, "you look at this bike and you know somebody cared."
I have this same bike (although the lugged model - & purple - woot, woot!), & had the same prob with the stem. I found the head tube to fit standard 1 1/8 threadless. I always enjoy your videos. Thanks for sharing.
Breakdancing 90s Russ would be great to see. Anyway, great video! I've been thinking of getting a retro MTB since forever but 26" wheels and having to spend more to restore it put me off. I'm glad I got a Surly Pack Rat for a great deal instead. Similar vibe with the rim brakes and the flat bars (which the previous owner put on it) but with more modern geometry and parts.
wow, i made just a comment like that under one of your recent vids and now i feel like this is a direct response 😁 of course none of your 5 points apply to me, I'm a bike geek, i recite Lennard Zinns book in my sleep, I have a cache, some spare money and my buddy runs a bike shop. for me especially the FIT is what i love the most about those old MTB frames - toe clearance is AMAZING. never had any issues n long cllimbs in the alps, when speed is low and balance requires some agile steering... not so easy with gravel bikes - even on flats you need to remember to stop peddaling while cornering. Gravel bikes in fact are roadbikes on wider wheels, and gravel just happens to be todays fad. That is why it's an off-the-shelf experience. '90 bikes are for people really into it, which already know things and are eager to tinker.
Bought a Bridgestone steel mtb. For a short rider like me the longer top tube wasn't working. Tried every possible modification. Lesson learned. Had to sell it
yeah, people often make the mistake of assuming that they will fit because of the smaller "frame size" and misleading standover height (based on the arbitrary measurement of BB to end/middle of seat tube distance, which made sense in roadbikes but not as much mtbs - sizing in oldschool mtbs was mostly designed so at correct sizing the top tube would clear the inseam by like 4" or more to be more appropriate for the more dynamic riding expected) so someone might pick a 48cm frame that actually has a 56(!)cm top tube.
@@Exgrmbl i tried everything to alter the fit but it wasn't going to happen. I guess I can't have nice things. Lol. I do have a Niner gravel bike that fits perfectly id love to convert to an e assist but its all carbon🥺....No go!
I happen to love 90s steel mountain bikes! But I’m the kind of guy who loves to wrench on them and has gathered most of the needed tools already. Looking forward to the next video.
I agree with your point that they're better as DIY projects for tinkerers than practical bikes for most people. I love my 1995 Trek mtb but it's DIY passion project. I've put probably $800-900 into modernizing every component. I was lucky to get one with a 1 1/8" threadless headset so it works flawlessly with aftermarket forks and stems. Shorter stem, wide riser bars, new tires, wheels, and drivetrain make it an entirely different bike. It's very satisfying to ride something that's my own creation. Not about nostalgia for me considering I was not yet alive back then, I just think it's cool.
I have been thinking of getting a 90's MTB for some time. The video covers good points. Fortunately I was able to work around pretty much all of them. I have been a bike rider since I had one with training wheels in the 60's went from Sting Ray with Banana seat, to 10 speed, Then when MTBs became available had a 90's MTB. I have upgraded over the years but have do not have any Modern bikes. No 1x and the newest are 2016
Let's look at the 5 reasons
1. I live in San Diego a pretty large market, so availability is not as much of an issue.
2 Expensive. that is true, but I think I overcame that, after watching this video last night, was on Craig's list free section this AM and found a 92 or 93 Diamond Back Traverse, for free. Picked it up around noon, granted it is pretty crusty, but like I said I have been thinking of this for a while, From a friend a while back got another 90s MTB the frame is too big for me but will be my donor bike, parts are in better condition
3 Tools, Like I said I am old enough to have worked on 90s bikes when they were new so still have some of the tools like cassette removers and for sure cone wrenches
4 and 5 the standards and geometry I can live with.
Finally I have a bike cave and this bike and the donor were bikes #7 and #8. In my fleet 1999 Carbon fiber TREK hard tail 3x9. 2010 Stumpjumper Full Sus 3x9 2013 Stumpjumper full sus 2x10. 2016 Marin Bridgeway 3x8 City/Dutch bike. 2016 Specialized Diverge 2x8 Gravel bike. And finally a dumpster rescue single speed coaster brake beach cruiser. No 1xs yet but have aquired most of the a 1x11 drive train so one or more of the fleet make be transformed to a 1x.
Definitely not for everybody. I've helped a friend off and on that is not at all mechanically inclined with 2 of his bikes from the 90s. And adjusting to accommodate his diminishing flexibility and changing needs generally takes some sorting out. Quill stem adapters, extenders, etc among them. On the other hand, it has extended their usable lifespans with fairly inexpensive modification.
recently purchased a 2000 marin eldridge grade. looks like a collector's-built to climb with great components
my only concern is the seatpost if i need more downhill time! .........feedback appreciated
All valid points. My first real bike was a Trek 800 ca. 1991. Out of nostalgia I recently bought a 1989 Specialized Hardrock Comp. It was in good shape but, yeah, I kinda forgot how bad the components were. Sealed bottom brackets weren't a thing yet. My old Trek would chew up bearings like a cow chewing cud. And the undersized headset would become "indexed steering" after hitting some hard bumps.
I have a 90's Gary Fisher Hoo-Koo-E-Koo. It not only has the 1" quill, it has a super wacky bottom bracket. The BB is threadless and uses two separate sealed industrial ball bearings held in place with circlips to support the square-taper spindle. I learned this when I wore out the original bearings. Fortunately, a popular search engine had come into existence by that time and I was able to find replacements. I still have that bike, fitted with Bosco bars, fenders, and baskets.
I have a 2000's GT avalanche I plan on painting and setting up as a gravel bike. I also have a 1964 Schwinn set up single speed with a front rack and fenders. Old bikes are cool, but new bikes certainly benefit from the last 30 years of innovation.
Ha...I have a 1997 Performance M 007 that I call my 'traveler' bike. I throw it on the car whenever I'm car camping, etc. I put baldy tires on it and it's fully XTR components....I swear it's one of my favorite bikes! I have a Santa Cruz MTN bike, a high performing road bike, and about 20 other cruisers, etc....but I always go back to my 1997 M 007. It's SO light and easy to ride.....I love it.
I have a 1993 Orange Clockwork mtb and it rides like a dream, I like it very much. Because i enjoy riding so much I have ordered a Surly Bridge Club! I am now wondering if I will enjoy the more modern geometry or if I won't really notice much difference between the two bikes?
Great video Russ. I think your point around tools etc is really accurate and finally - someone mentioning stack height! I ride an 80s mtb as my everyday and touring bicycle and adore it... but only after I fitted a set of Bosco bars and a mega tall quill stem! Horizontal top tube looks fantastic, but is not conducive to comfortable riding without some serious height added through bar/stem choice.
Good advice for those who don't already have the tools or know-how for working on older bikes. I still have my 1991 mtb that I bought new and have been using it as a gravel bike since then. Also, I have a few that were dumpster bikes that I have fixed up and keep at our summer cottage in the mountains for others to use. Would I go looking for one to buy? No, but they are practical and durable and pretty easy to maintain. Awful for actual mountain biking, but great for gravel.
Wow, this really explains a lot. I remember purchasing mountain bikes in the 90’s and hating them. Just like now, back then I was using my bikes primarily for commuting. I didn’t use a rear rack so I carried all of my stuff in a backpack. Every time I purchased a mountain bike it would hurt my back riding it. And, to think back then I didn’t even have arthritis like I do now. Seems to me bikes have become a lot more comfortable to ride over the years. Not to mention - in my opinion, of course - the modern bikes just look better.
What you do with those bullhorn handle bars?
I pine for my stolen Bridgestone MB-1 but I wonder if I were able to ride one now it might be a let down.
A 90s MTB is like that year of Toyotas when they first introduced fuel injection into new models.
The right mix of simplicity and hi-tech.
Same with music.
Great video, I appreciate all the nuance! The remark about 90’s mtbs being budget-friendly (if you have access to bins full of used parts) hits home for me; I grew into bikes and wrenching as a young adult by digging through recycled cycles and buying everything used, except for tools, which for me have an extremely high value to price ratio.
Cheers!
Also played alot of Street fighter during the 90's and still have my MTB from that era a Royce union "savoy".
Resto modded stripped, powdercoat ed with modern compatible parts like corner bar, outboard crankset, still looking for 26' gravel kings.
Love it.
Hopefully someone can answer this. I have a 96 specialized Hardrock gx, since new is it a bike that can be built into a gravel bike. I will need some tools and parts but I have the bike and it's in great shape.
Great video and spot on for all the reasons. Id also add that modern drivetrains are smoother, have better gearing range without the need for a triple, and shifting is much smoother/less finicky.
I've come across a few 90's mtbs at pawn shops down here in my part of Texas and they're still relatively cheap. I've seen two or three private sellers that are restoring and reselling them but not many. I scoop up any name brands I can. Recently I picked up a Scott Boulder with a full Deore LX Canti groupset that I'm excited to make my new commuter. I'm currently on a Haro Omega 700c hybrid that I slapped a 1x8 on that I ride to work. The issue I've found with both is the seatpost size and the Scott has the same 25.4 ID fork so I'm on the lookout for an adapter. Great video and great points. Look forward to seeing what you do with the Paramount.
All very valid reasons. I picked up a 1987 Norco Bigfoot from Halifax, Nova Scotia and had it shipped to St. John's, Newfoundland. This was just before the the prices went up and the bike was well maintained. I've since swapped a bunch of parts to combat the low stack height and for utility purposes, and it is now my commuter bike. If I ever want to go for a ride and not worry about speed, but maximize comfort and kid carrying ability, it's the perfect tool for the job. I'm looking forward to your next video!
Interesting points. I usually tell people to look for a mid 80's mountain bike as the area of experimentation hadn't started yet. As for your handle bars, we do the exact thing you tried. Barbara has that handlebar you experimented with (similar) and mine is a riser. Ours are set up for touring and therefor comfort. Both are super rugged (Barbara's is late 90's, mine is mid 80's. Thanks for sharing your experience.
It is not a 90's bike, but similar is beginning to happen with my 2008 Marin, which is a great bike. Even with a 2008, I have to do the work to source parts that match when I want to upgrade. You must have the interest in doing the mechanical work yourself and finding the right parts. The geometry is definitely more aggressive than the modern equivalent. The sportier appearance can be seen just by looking at it. The bikes going back even only 15 years looked beautiful and they do ride nice. I was not aware of the increasing collectors value, because I never wanted to sell it and don't plan on it.
Loved the video. Does anyone know what the brake levers are ? They look really good.
IRD brake levers.
@@PathLessPedaledTV thank you very much.
I had the same stem challenge for a Trek 930 frame. It’s not easy to search online for a 25.4 quill as it seems to default to the clamp size, as you referenced.
Interesting. I bought a Specialized Hard Rock (basic, no-suspension 3x7 MTB) in 1996 ($300 list, $250 on sale) as a commuter, commuting on the ferry to Seattle for a couple of years, rain, salt spray, snow, and ice, then in Missoula for a couple of years (snow, ice) and Hamilton, MT for 8 years (rain, snow, ice, subzero temps, summer heat), and rode my "Birthday Mile-age" on it through most of my 60s, most recently 90 km for my 76th birthday, back in Western Washington for the last 12 years. I've replaced bottom bracket (crashed through iced-over pothole in Seattle), SPD pedals, lots of chains and tires, but it just keeps on ticking. Crashed on railroad tracks in Seattle, ice in Missoula, death cookies in the Bitterroot Mountains, just got back on and rode. Tough bike, very basic, good commuter. Would I trade it for a "gravel bike"? Not sure, probably not. We also have a 1980s MTB tandem, which is a great touring bike and OK on gravel trails.
An issue I faced was finding a steel fork with centre-pull/v-brake mounts and an axle-crown measurement that matches up with the old 63mm suspension forks. I found that the Surly Troll or Big Dummy forks are perfect at 425mm and Soma Fab also makes one, but good luck finding any of these at a local shop or anywhere online. I've been trying since February and eventually decided just to go with a 100mm suspension fork.
I bought my first mountain bike in 1986, a Fisher Procaliber. Coming from a background of road and track racing, I was fairly accustomed to the long and low position. Still, I ended up getting a custom stem with a *lot* of rise in order to save my lower back. Hard-tail, rigid fork, 26” wheels, toe-clips and straps, and a horizontal top tube. I lived through all of that; I don’t feel any need to relive it, anymore than I’d go back to wearing a ‘leather hairnet’. 😄
I have a 90s "hybrid" bike. A Bianchi Avenue from their Cross-terrain line, 700c wheels and a slightly angled top tube......I put some bull moose bars and some 38 schwalbe g-one tires.....it's kind of perfect, makes more sense to me than 90s mtb.
Just as a tip : Those old Suntour XS Pro hubs don't need special tools to remove the sproket because it's just the very old style to mount it like the old Shimano Ultegra ones ... the last chainwheel is screwed on to the freewheel if you remove it with a standart tool you can pull the rest of .
Two years ago a built my old 1992 Raleigh M50 mountain bike up into a drop bar 700c gravel bike, needless to say it took all kinds of adapters and fabri-cobling to make work. I rode it almost 2k miles the summer I built it, including a century ride on the Greenbrier River trail. It ended up costing about what a nice-ish gravel bike would have cost to purchase, but since I got it for Christmas new in 1992 when I was 14 it meant a lot to me to make it usable again.
I absolutely have zero regrets!
Your comments are right on. I'm an old guy with three old bikes, 1989 Rock Combo, a 1987 Diamondback Ascent, and a 1995 Rockhopper. The Rockhopper in pristine condition and ready to ride was $50 locally. I wanted to change out the stem to reduce the reach and it was difficult as you mention to find one that would fit. I do have a 2013 Specialized Tarmac as my road bike, but the old ones are fun to ride and fit my needs and style as I don't do any technical stuff.
Bottom Bracket Height: One of the things I didn't like about the old Trek 930 Singletrack I owned was the BB height. Perhaps for off road clearance the BB shell was almost inline with the axis of the front and rear axles.Which to me made for twitchy slow riding on any surface. Even with the long Bosco bars. I think Bridgestone bikes (Grant era) seemed to address that with lower BB heights by that era's standards.
I have an 86 Rockhopper. With new powdercoat Jones Bar, new old wheels, brakes and derailleurs, it’s a sweet ride. I just added a low power Swytch kit so now it’s got a motor!
I am on resto-mod of my fourth and fifth 90's mountain. My first in 2017 was the only one ready to ride after new tires. It became first resto mod when a LBS mucked up the bottom bracket and i wanted to DIM from then on. I don't think I have the interest once number 4 &5 are done (2023) to do more unless of course I run into the barn find of the century. You lay five great reasons not to dive into the hype. I am forever grateful that I started out flinging good money on an apprentice level tool kit at the start. It can also get you new riding partners when you fix up their old bike and back on the tread again.