Love it! It's also nice to see a version of the collar choke being taught in a Karate class. I always had the nagging feeling that Karate had a lot more overlap with Judo/Jujutsu before everyone started getting that "purist" mindset. These kinds of drills are only going to make huge improvements to Karate :)
Awesome details on the throw (hip position and should in their armpit)! I’ll definitely keep those in mind when giving my students cues for this type of throw. Thanks for the best karate / martial arts content on youtube. Can’t wait for the next video.
That was great, especially when you specified hip & shoulder positions. But also the possibility of falling down with the opponent. Thanks for doing this one, I had been looking forward to seeing another technique & drill oriented video.
Love this..this technique is in an ITF Tkd black belt form but the official application is a punch over the shoulder ( which is, of course, ridiculous). Thanks Ian.
So this is what Karate is supposed to look like? That collar tie looks tight, and is what they teach in good BJJ, Judo and Wrestling schools. This "O Goshi" (Judo) throw is made better by the elbow strikes, with the right technique you can either distract or upset the inner ear, and throw your opponent even easier.
Sensei Iain, Thanx for everything really in infinite amounts. Do the matters you discuss in your previous Is Hard Training Good Training video go for mental challenges / mental exercises / studies as well?
Nice. But being a judoka and karateka when you get that knew behind his you take him backwards. You can grab the pant or not. Just siting back you take hi balance. Then roll on top hurt him and escape. This was the counter to a hip throw in judo, In our karate class we did this from a strike or bear hug. You get the knee behind their knee and make good contact. This will off balance them. Hands up high protecting the head. Elbow going into the solar plex/sternum. Then you have options on how to take them down. You can lift and scoop to throw. You can grab the leg or legs near the ankle to take him down. You can fall back with him and use your weight while drive into the sternum to take the breath as well as balance. From there you can choke, joint lock or strike and escape. I don't want to take that much time to get behind them then get my hips back in front. I'm tying to picture which technique you are applying from the kata?
He is showing how it would more realistically go, I am thinking. In a fight, you usually won't just magically be in position. He ended up in a clinch, peppered him with a few punches, then worked his way there. In kata, it is one punch, then you go into the o goshi. This is the last 4 techniques of heian sandan. Considering that in kata, you are punching behind yourself at head level, rather than an o goshi, I would work this as either koshi guruma or kubi nage.
I love Ian and his bunkai. They are great. I only pointed out as a judoka that it's not realistic. Dr Kano had 2 principles. Maximum efficiency with minimum effort. If the leg is behind the knee you take him backwards. If the leg is in front you take him forward. He push you pull. If he pulls don't resist you push in the direction he's pulling. My question as a karateka. Where is this in the kata? We have this kata in Shorin Ryu. In judo I was ranked 4h in the USA in the 80s.
@EliteguardianPresa this is the end of heian sandan. The oi zuki to the 180 degree turn. The punch to the rear (koho tsukiage) and turn while in Kiba dachi is what he's doing here. As I mentioned above, since the punch to the rear is head level, I'd probably say it was koshi guruma or kubi nage, but o goshi works as well. Having a brown belt in judo myself, I will agree with you on not being judo principle, but at the same time, in competition, that is often how it works. Competition is not gentle at all and you sometimes have to brute force things. In the vid, his leg was behind the uke, but uke's bodyweight is forward. Transitioning to an o goshi would be fine, imo.
It’s a good dominant position that allows you to take the enemy to the front or back, depending on which direction the enemy tries to move: ua-cam.com/video/XMVddevprPs/v-deo.html
Quick question for you, I like the intensity and the sparring of Kyokushin (but dislike their kata), I love the kata/bunkais of Goju-Ryu. Since Kyokushin people don't practice many katas anyway, does it make sense to join a Kyokushin school and practice Goju-Ryu kata by myself? I'm shodan in Wado-Ryu by the way so I'm familiar with kata in general Thank you in advance
@@StudentInFrance Sounds great. Is there in the history of open Kyokushin tournaments any Goju-Ryu or non-Kyokushin style practitioner who actually won?
@@jean4j_ Probably yes but I don't have any examples. Frankly, I think Goju-ryu kumite is superior to Kyokushin knockdown rules since Goju allows head punches. You can also join both dojos if you have the time and money to do so.
@@StudentInFrance Thanks, great feedback :) I was under the probably false impression that Goju-Ryu kumite was the regular point-fighting format used by Shotokan practitioners. So they fight full-contact as well?
There’s a quite a lot of throws in the old texts and in the kata, but they are not practised today as much as they once were. Having learnt the karate throws, I did train in Judo to help refine them and explore their use in other contexts, before recontextualising it all back into my karate. This article may be of interest: iainabernethy.co.uk/article/karate-grappling-did-it-really-exist All the best, Iain
I study and teach Matsubayashi Ryu Shorin Ryu. We teach Ogoshi as a white belt technique. As stated throws were originally in karate. Not often taught today many teach sports karate instead of karate.
Since you mentioned judo. Judo wasn't originally meant to be a sport. It was used for self preservation. I was taught in judo to use this throw for self defense against a punch. I learned my first wrist lock in judo class. I learned to defend against multiple attacker in judo. We were taught judo as self defense. We did not focus on tournament play. We did compete and did well as a school. I was ranked 4th in the USA and our school was invited to train with Phil Porter on the USA Judo team because of how well we did. The USA team later travelled to our dojo to train with us. I learned a lot from Phil Porter in randori. Humility was one of the things I learned. I had to be more humble especially after the old man did whatever he wanted to do to me.
I'm also having trouble seeing the final 2 moves applied this way. I'm in no way doubting you, it's me. I really want to see it. Very, very interesting video, thank you Sir
I think what may be causing the confusion is that this is footage of the students playing with a throw they already know and using different entries and exits. You just need to look at the throw in isolation. There is the turn so your hips are put in front of the enemy (like the kata) and then one hand goes around and up (as per the kata i.e. the one that ends up “punching” over the shoulder) as the other pulls around an down (the hand that ends up on the hip in the kata). The kata then shows the arm movement of the other side. It’s what would be O-Goshi in Judo (ua-cam.com/video/yhu1mfy2vJ4/v-deo.html). It’s common practise for us to learn the kata example and then run with the principles and variants (Stage 3 for my 4-Stage model: ua-cam.com/video/y02d-QU_aoE/v-deo.html) That’s what you are seeing here. Hopefully, the linked Judo clip of the throw in isolation will help you see it.
That's funny this is o goshi with a elbow really.. the higher rank u get in shotokan they show u throws.. the higher u get in judo they show atemi waza..interesting.. they really go hand n hand along with jujitsu..
I just started training in shotokan.. the deep stances r rough on the knees but I get it. Kihons I like. Punch kick n block almost daily but the kata is slow and annoying.. would it work in actual combat? Tkd kicks are much faster but shotokan uses punches n kicks n more so no more taekwondo for me I want to b more proficient with my hands
Karate is just 19th century japanese form of mma ofc they would look similar 🤷🏻♂️nowaday. The things you see in the Olympics and wkf is highly sportified and stylised
Love it! It's also nice to see a version of the collar choke being taught in a Karate class. I always had the nagging feeling that Karate had a lot more overlap with Judo/Jujutsu before everyone started getting that "purist" mindset. These kinds of drills are only going to make huge improvements to Karate :)
Awesome details on the throw (hip position and should in their armpit)! I’ll definitely keep those in mind when giving my students cues for this type of throw. Thanks for the best karate / martial arts content on youtube. Can’t wait for the next video.
Love this. I envisioned the throw being either a koshi guruma or kubi nage rather than o goshi. 🔥🔥🔥
That was great, especially when you specified hip & shoulder positions. But also the possibility of falling down with the opponent. Thanks for doing this one, I had been looking forward to seeing another technique & drill oriented video.
Funny. I was just thinking of this drill the other day from the residential I attended. Going to cover it in class soon 👍
Love this..this technique is in an ITF Tkd black belt form but the official application is a punch over the shoulder ( which is, of course, ridiculous). Thanks Ian.
Out of interest which tkd form would it appear in? Thanks
So this is what Karate is supposed to look like? That collar tie looks tight, and is what they teach in good BJJ, Judo and Wrestling schools.
This "O Goshi" (Judo) throw is made better by the elbow strikes, with the right technique you can either distract or upset the inner ear, and throw your opponent even easier.
thanks Iain.
Sensei Iain,
Thanx for everything really in infinite amounts.
Do the matters you discuss in your previous Is Hard Training Good Training video go for mental challenges / mental exercises / studies as well?
Very nice.
Nice. But being a judoka and karateka when you get that knew behind his you take him backwards. You can grab the pant or not. Just siting back you take hi balance. Then roll on top hurt him and escape. This was the counter to a hip throw in judo, In our karate class we did this from a strike or bear hug. You get the knee behind their knee and make good contact. This will off balance them. Hands up high protecting the head. Elbow going into the solar plex/sternum. Then you have options on how to take them down. You can lift and scoop to throw. You can grab the leg or legs near the ankle to take him down. You can fall back with him and use your weight while drive into the sternum to take the breath as well as balance. From there you can choke, joint lock or strike and escape. I don't want to take that much time to get behind them then get my hips back in front. I'm tying to picture which technique you are applying from the kata?
He is showing how it would more realistically go, I am thinking. In a fight, you usually won't just magically be in position. He ended up in a clinch, peppered him with a few punches, then worked his way there.
In kata, it is one punch, then you go into the o goshi. This is the last 4 techniques of heian sandan.
Considering that in kata, you are punching behind yourself at head level, rather than an o goshi, I would work this as either koshi guruma or kubi nage.
I love Ian and his bunkai. They are great. I only pointed out as a judoka that it's not realistic. Dr Kano had 2 principles. Maximum efficiency with minimum effort. If the leg is behind the knee you take him backwards. If the leg is in front you take him forward. He push you pull. If he pulls don't resist you push in the direction he's pulling. My question as a karateka. Where is this in the kata? We have this kata in Shorin Ryu. In judo I was ranked 4h in the USA in the 80s.
@EliteguardianPresa this is the end of heian sandan. The oi zuki to the 180 degree turn. The punch to the rear (koho tsukiage) and turn while in Kiba dachi is what he's doing here. As I mentioned above, since the punch to the rear is head level, I'd probably say it was koshi guruma or kubi nage, but o goshi works as well.
Having a brown belt in judo myself, I will agree with you on not being judo principle, but at the same time, in competition, that is often how it works. Competition is not gentle at all and you sometimes have to brute force things.
In the vid, his leg was behind the uke, but uke's bodyweight is forward. Transitioning to an o goshi would be fine, imo.
For the first technique, Why did you grab him from the back and come back in front? What is the meaning of going to the back side??
It’s a good dominant position that allows you to take the enemy to the front or back, depending on which direction the enemy tries to move: ua-cam.com/video/XMVddevprPs/v-deo.html
Great video
Quick question for you, I like the intensity and the sparring of Kyokushin (but dislike their kata), I love the kata/bunkais of Goju-Ryu.
Since Kyokushin people don't practice many katas anyway, does it make sense to join a Kyokushin school and practice Goju-Ryu kata by myself?
I'm shodan in Wado-Ryu by the way so I'm familiar with kata in general
Thank you in advance
Join a Goju dojo and enter open Kyokushin tournaments.
@@StudentInFrance Sounds great.
Is there in the history of open Kyokushin tournaments any Goju-Ryu or non-Kyokushin style practitioner who actually won?
@@jean4j_ Probably yes but I don't have any examples. Frankly, I think Goju-ryu kumite is superior to Kyokushin knockdown rules since Goju allows head punches. You can also join both dojos if you have the time and money to do so.
@@StudentInFrance Thanks, great feedback :)
I was under the probably false impression that Goju-Ryu kumite was the regular point-fighting format used by Shotokan practitioners. So they fight full-contact as well?
@@jean4j_ There are 2 variations of Goju. Okinawan Goju does hard (go) and soft (ju) kumite. Japanese Goju does WKF point fighting.
Not seen that in karate before... Have you trained in Judo?
There’s a quite a lot of throws in the old texts and in the kata, but they are not practised today as much as they once were. Having learnt the karate throws, I did train in Judo to help refine them and explore their use in other contexts, before recontextualising it all back into my karate. This article may be of interest: iainabernethy.co.uk/article/karate-grappling-did-it-really-exist All the best, Iain
He wouldn't have had to. Those are Karate throws from before the modernization of Karate.
My current sensei incorporates them as a natural part of our Shorin-ryu training
I study and teach Matsubayashi Ryu Shorin Ryu. We teach Ogoshi as a white belt technique. As stated throws were originally in karate. Not often taught today many teach sports karate instead of karate.
Since you mentioned judo. Judo wasn't originally meant to be a sport. It was used for self preservation. I was taught in judo to use this throw for self defense against a punch. I learned my first wrist lock in judo class. I learned to defend against multiple attacker in judo. We were taught judo as self defense. We did not focus on tournament play. We did compete and did well as a school. I was ranked 4th in the USA and our school was invited to train with Phil Porter on the USA Judo team because of how well we did. The USA team later travelled to our dojo to train with us. I learned a lot from Phil Porter in randori. Humility was one of the things I learned. I had to be more humble especially after the old man did whatever he wanted to do to me.
What is your karate style called, and where can I learn it?
He takes Shotokan.
This man is a goat !
For variation you could do a Uranage as you step behind, not the best move on a cobbled street but better than a smack in the mouth
Which part of Heian sandan is this drill referring to?
The final two moves
@@practicalkatabunkai don't see it, but still like the waza
I'm also having trouble seeing the final 2 moves applied this way. I'm in no way doubting you, it's me. I really want to see it. Very, very interesting video, thank you Sir
Subscribing.
I think what may be causing the confusion is that this is footage of the students playing with a throw they already know and using different entries and exits. You just need to look at the throw in isolation. There is the turn so your hips are put in front of the enemy (like the kata) and then one hand goes around and up (as per the kata i.e. the one that ends up “punching” over the shoulder) as the other pulls around an down (the hand that ends up on the hip in the kata). The kata then shows the arm movement of the other side. It’s what would be O-Goshi in Judo (ua-cam.com/video/yhu1mfy2vJ4/v-deo.html). It’s common practise for us to learn the kata example and then run with the principles and variants (Stage 3 for my 4-Stage model: ua-cam.com/video/y02d-QU_aoE/v-deo.html) That’s what you are seeing here. Hopefully, the linked Judo clip of the throw in isolation will help you see it.
That's funny this is o goshi with a elbow really.. the higher rank u get in shotokan they show u throws.. the higher u get in judo they show atemi waza..interesting.. they really go hand n hand along with jujitsu..
I just started training in shotokan.. the deep stances r rough on the knees but I get it. Kihons I like. Punch kick n block almost daily but the kata is slow and annoying.. would it work in actual combat? Tkd kicks are much faster but shotokan uses punches n kicks n more so no more taekwondo for me I want to b more proficient with my hands
@@steverodgers4662 If you want to improve your upper body striking game, give boxing a try. It is a very good complement to karate.
Osu ..... Respect
Have you ever thought that karate techniques could be applicable to mma ?
Where do you think MMA got its techniques from? MMA. Mixed. Martial. Arts. Techniques from various martial arts, including karate.
@@somebloke13 thanks 😁
Karate is just 19th century japanese form of mma ofc they would look similar 🤷🏻♂️nowaday. The things you see in the Olympics and wkf is highly sportified and stylised
Oss
OSU 🇧🇷
4 thumbs down? They must be from the "sport" karate folk....