St Kilda hits out at compromised draft system as Presidents' meeting turns fiery - Footy Classified
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- Опубліковано 18 чер 2024
- Damian Barrett tells Footy Classified the latest about the 'fiery' Presidents' meeting, as clubs had it out over several burning issues in the AFL world.
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St Kilda have been around long enough to benefit from the father son system.
The problem is they have been a poorly run club for most of their history.
So st Kilda haven’t had any luck with past players having any good sons that play footy and that’s due to the fact the clubs run poorly? Turn it up
@Thedonyak or that other clubs have managed some players to get to 100 games better than St Kilda. E.g. Alwyn Davey.
It can be seen as an investment or a gamble. People only complain when it is done well. I'd be interested in seeing how many St Kilda players have got to 100 games over the past 30-40 years, compared to other clubs.
Not when former St Kilda players pop more daughters than sons-Frawley, Burke, Harvey, one son between all if them
@@TraceyBurton-gs6jm Dal santo letting his kid play soccer smh. The only half decent father son in the last 5 years has been Tyson Milne and he's now playing VFL fro Frankston.
Andrew Bassett “It can’t possibly be our fault we’ve only won 1 flag in 137 years. It’s those damn academies and father son picks.”
7 different premiers in the last 10 years.
Yeh the draft is really compromising the competition
the league want every team to be a top four team at the start of the season
but football clubs dont work like that building a team is difficult if you are a bottom eight side in any draft.
It is compromised in the sense that the top teams tend to stay there for a while whilst the bottom team stay at the bottom for a while. The bottom teams are often denied access to the best draft players because of academy and father-son picks.
@@gustaaf1892 free agency players dont want to go to bottom teams understandably. but the afl didn't think of that they thought if would even the comp up.
Only 1 non Victorian premier in the last 12 years, speaks a bit on the whole travel thing
...North despite being on the bottom for 5 years have barely had access to the actual best player in each year!
Daicos, ashcroft, ugle hagan, Darcy, jed Walter, it goes on and on.
And then people wonder why they can't improve when they're getting the second,.third, fourth best player.
And the 1 time they were able to use pick 1 without pressure.... port adelaide jumped on the kid, talked to him all year to come back and was allowed to break a 2 year contract to do so!!
Why the afl allowed that to happen ill never know. If Horne Francis was to be allowed to go to Port he should have been forced to miss out on his second year of footy.
What's compromised is the Saints inability to draft and keep good talent. Jimmy is spot on. Josh Daicos went at pick 57. Nobody wanted him until then.
It doesn’t matter if anyone else did want him, all Collingwood has to do is match the bid and he’s theirs
@@firewall-pass every chance they didn’t have the capital. Either way they’re giving up a lot if they need to match
Clubs always make sure they have the assets in place beforehand, and really they give up nothing, Nick Daicos for 4 picks between 30-40? That’s just stealing top end talent
@@firewall-passCollingwood weren’t gonna match an early bid on him, he wasn’t rated very highly coming into the draft, unlike Nick.
@@Comatosedpeanut all the more reason they were bound to get him cheap, it’s basically a free hit
Given the AFL's recent history, I'm intrigued to see how the clubs react when the AFL changes the drafting rules about halfway into a live draft.
This guy get's it 🤣
if they are truly after an uncompromised draft then they should bin the father son rule and have a draft lottery for the bottom sides so you cant tank to get the number 1 pick every year
This is exactly right.
Get rid of the salary cap to
@@user-cx9gq2ud6twould be the absolute worst thing to do. Why would you want these upper revenue teams to poach players, I could think of nothing worse.
@@user-cx9gq2ud6tyeah and and then we get super teams like the nba… nah
@@qizza7142 Super teams are not built through the draft in the NBA though, it's usually when a star player leaves their team to join another star team and it doesn't work usually work anyway. The NBA has had 8 different teams win championships in the last 10 years....
Father/son is purely luck. There are as many busts as there are guns. If Wayne Carey had 3 sons who were all as talented as him, right now North Melbourne would be winning premierships.
Clubs should still have to pay something resembling a fair price for them. A bunch of junk picks for a pick in the top 3 is bs.
100%!!! Look at Tony Lockett's family photo haha
Image all the wife shagging, cocaine using, wine glass abuse at Arden Street with 3 Wayne Careys
What's your point?
Exactly, Hawthorn has been the most successful team of the last 6 decades with an endless list of decorated champions and who have we picked up father son? Shane Tuck and Finn Maginness give me a break. The only star father son we had was Josh Kennedy and we let him go 😂 Now apparently Hodgey’s boys are barracking for the Lions now they live in Brisbane. Guaranteed one of his sons becomes an absolute gun.
What a joke Josh was not even wanted by other clubs. We developed him into a star
Have no issue with that, the Nic Daicos one is rubbish, you needed a first round pick, not picks in round 3 and 4.
everyone may have guessed he would want to go to coll and would end up there. wasnt going to be a career player for anyone else.
Spoken like a true pies supporter 😂 trying to ignore the 2 others that other clubs wanted
No one was complaining about this when Collingwood got the brown brothers, both sucked for the most part.. but they conveniently complain when Collingwood get Moore and the Daicos boys..
Don't forget Will Kelly!
Had a few Clokes too
@@trikkimick see, I completely forgot about Will, the Clokes, and the others. More proof to how bad of a Father/Son selecting they were
Don't forget the Clokes there was 3 of them
St Kilda’s next gen academy covers all of the Mornington peninsula, if they want better players then develop these next gen players, simple as that
They have been but they are not allowed to draft them you goose.
@@COVIDPLAYSOFTHEWEEK12345they are if the pay the right price, which is what st kildas president is whinging about 😂
@@COVIDPLAYSOFTHEWEEK12345 St Kilda have a bunch of players out of their NGA. Including two of their best young players. I think the rules should be changed as well, but they weren't complaining about this when they got Owens and Windhager.
But if they are before pick 40, they can't take them
Brandon Roy brother!!
LOL it's not other clubs fault that Saints don't have any father-son players
Saints players were too busy with partying and burning dwarfs to go home settle down and make footballers.
Of course is st Kilda leading the charge on this
Hard decisions would mean Victorian clubs losing their privileged status. Irony is that St Kilda poached a wa academy pick last year which neither WA club could match. Whinging as they are always want to do.
All Clubs should be granted access to their NGA Picks. It's unfair for Teams that can only bid for them at Pick 40 onwards. Father/Son is a traditional concept that should stay but Teams should be forced to pay what they are worth. If they don't have the Draft Capital, then too bad!
I can't believe I agree with Eddie McGuire. The first time, and perhaps the last lol.
st Kilda don’t have good players to rely on the father son rule. They need to improve
What a rubbish comment.
@@greco272 They wouldn't be complaining otherwise
Nick Riewoldts 3 sons says otherwise.
@@kanewhite2161 saints fans would be begging for them if the f/s rule is abolished
@@kanewhite2161 Ill give you that, but its far and few in between for a team like Saints
"Josh Daicos was pick 57". How is that relevant? Last year everyone wanted pick 1 because Harley Reid is a generational talent. According to the media he has single handled saved WC and North are chumps for winning in Rd 24 last year. So what would the reaction have been if WC went to the draft knowing they could pick McKercher or Duursma or whoever and still pick Reid at "2" onward with whatever picks add up to enough points?
GC traded down multiple first round picks that directly helped other teams, similar to what the tigers are banking on for this year. Clubs have been complaining about GC not being good but when they finally get good players out of their academy clubs complain. This is a joke lmao Maybe make the picks clubs use to bid on go to the team they are bidding against. Just a thought, also you cant remove access to father sons. The players will leave whatever club drafts them if it isnt the one they want, then we have JHF happenening every year. Clubs dont want to draft father sons, they will not stay at their club
I’m pretty sure one of those clubs was St Kilda.
The irony is that the Camporeale twins live in SA and you get a second generation of talking the best players out of SA and SA clubs do not get access. Meanwhile for 25 years non Vic clubs have had no father/son access and as soon as it looks like we will have equal access, the rules are changed just because Gold Coast lucked out with a handful of good players. And reminder you wanted the academies so the northern clubs will not pick up as many Melbourne based kids.
The reality is the AFL is probably the most compromised professional sport in the world
From the fixturing
to the umpiring
to the rule changes DURING THE SEASON every season
to the draft (north priority picks even when other teams have been more unsuccessful)
academy players Sydney gets
and so on and so forth
love the game it's entertaining but it's hard to take seriously these days imo
Sir you are absolutely 100 % correct
Most compromised? Huh? Have you seen a game called soccer? How is Bristol supposed to compete with Man City? There are a few things which I agree need to be altered. The umpiring and rule changes are the biggest problem by far.
But your statement is a little comical in terms of the most compromised sport.
North priority picks that fell into the mid 20s when other clubs have had top of first round priority picks in the past. Which other clubs were more unsuccessful? The answer is clearly NONE. The last 4 and now 5 years no club has been less successful with 4 last or equal last finishes and a record low number of wins. The compromised draft has robbed North from being able to pick the best players and they were even robbed from a father-son pick by Sydney through their academy rort.
Absolutely right
Getting rid of Laura Kane for a real football person (male) would be a good first step …
Cant make an uncompromised draft when the players choose where they go after a initial contract...... saying if GWS chose Nick D that he wouldnt have come back ASAP.....
Couldnt agree more, he's spot on
Sick of clubs getting father sons for peanuts. It makes the draft uneven
Now that Collingwood has taken full advantage of this flawed system, its time to change it.
Maybe clubs need to pay MORE draft points for father/son and academy players to compensate for the access to these players. That would test the f/s romance notion.
All of these issues could have been resolved years ago in about 5 minutes.
Yeah, sure thing Eddie. It's not as if clubs already rort the draft.🙄
Clubs don't bother bidding on f/s or academy players where they're mocked because they know it's going to be matched. Might as well pick the guy you know you're going to get and make them feel wanted and not sloppy seconds. In my opinion Daicos was the best player in the draft but not surprised they picked JHF instead. Likewise Ashcroft was easily the best player in his draft year. He was dominating for Brissy VFL team and would've won the rising star if he didn't do his ACL (Not discrediting Sheezel). The list goes on, Darcy, Fletcher, Moore, ABLETT!!! Ablett definitely would've been taken earlier but back then the teams could match with almost zero impact. Broken system needs to be fixed (A whinge from a saints supporter)
Pretty simple solution really, every club gets to pre select 1 academy or father son and then the draft starts. If the northern clubs have put in the money and time to develop players they should get access to them. If player a is good enough to be preselected by 2 clubs then the player makes a choice. Same would go for a father son whose dad has played for 2 clubs.
As a saints fan it is what it is damage is done already now
Yeah Collingwood really won with the Brown boys
Just get rid of the rubbish teams - Saint Kilda, North, Freo, Suns can go and have 14 teams player each other twice for 26 games home and away. drafted lottery for bottom 6 sides
You've outed yourself as a clueless DH. Should this have happened when the likes of Melbourne and Carlton were clogging up the cellar seemingly forever? You can throw Brisbane in there as well. As I said, utterly clueless comment.
@@gustaaf1892 Carlton and Essendon have among the lowest win % since 2001 let’s bin them first surely.
What about the two clubs that have been proven to be cheats
I don’t know what a concussion sounds like but I suspect you’re pretty close.
I don't mind the father/son rule as long as you pay the going rate. The problem is that certain teams have been heavily loaded for success for the next 10-15 years. Hard for some teams to compete with that whilst trying to keep their stars and supporters happy.
I’m with Ed on this one, it’s a great thing to think about, having sons play in their fathers old club but let’s be realistic if we want a fair and non compromised draft then this rule needs to go
love my saints but one of the biggest problems they've had is the draft and it's been a problem for a long time. further to jimmy's point that they had ample opportunity to bid on at the 3 collingwood players in particular, it's just as likely those players could've been vfl-level players - whether that was a result of whichever club they went to's development, their own effort levels, or their own ability and talent. if that had've eventuated we wouldn't be hearing this debate - or at least there would be different names.
i personally think this kind of behaviour from basset is embarrassing for the fans.
St Kilda sooking, what’s new?
If a club wants to secure a player under father/son, they should be made to use the next pick they have in the draft. If they aren't prepared to use their pick, they don't value the player.
Using a second or third pick is just silly.
Stkilda is a 150 year old club. If they managed their club better they could have access to the same numbers of father son picks as all the other old clubs do.
The academy should exist to support clubs that cannot access father son.
If you want AFL clubs to invest in next generation players, you have to give clubs some incentive.
I think teams should have to pay more for access to father/son and academy players. I don’t think father/son should be completely eliminated but it is surprising nowadays how many teams have academies that give them access to local talent. They were originally brought in for northern state clubs who didn’t have access to talent rich pools of local players like VIC/WA/SA. Now it almost seems like every club has some type of academy system in place and I think it’s gotten out of control.
The same rules apply to every club - that's the definition of fair. If St Kilda had spent 20 years and tens of millions of dollars they'd have a great Academy too, same as the northern clubs. People act like the Academies just magically popped into being and didn't take blood, sweat and cash to get off the ground, or were just waved into being by the AFL - Sydney spends millions every year on theirs, why should they not get the advantage out of it?
Most kids who would be eligible for St Kilda Father/Sons have probably never met their Dads.
Ed is saying about as much as Robbo does but somehow longer.
My God the man waffles a lot to say nothing.
He's all for whatever it is until it negatively affects Collingwood.
Damian i agree, you shouldnt get compensation ie: if you get a bid on pick 4, you need pick 5.
Love what Jimmy said 1:44 he’s got the most common sense on that panel.
It's only a problem when it's Collingwood who are benefiting
St Kilda blaming father son and academy rather than themselves - they took McCartin over Petracca
The discount is the ridiculous part. It’s relatively ok otherwise
This all seems like a St Kilda problem and not a rest of the league problem
The number of commentors here who think the arguement is about scrapping the FS rule is nuts. It is crystal clear that the concern from some clubs is about the implimentation, not the core idea.
I have no view either way, but people should really try to understand what the debate is about before jumping in.
NBA seems to get fairness right,despite the obscene amount of money, maybe look at their drafting model.
Father-son is niwhere comparable with academies. Those northern clubs are getting top 10 players every year.
A vic club complaining about unfairness is hilarious.
St Kilda, always looking for an excuse and someone else to blame
Father son and academy makes the draft a joke! All needs to go as it’s lucky and teams get a leg up whilst poor teams stay worse for longer
I cant wait for St Kilda in 10 years to have a great players son and they complain about the new rules lol
The one chance of that left country and his kids are gonna go play NFl
You give priority picks to struggling clubs which everyone whinges about but then deny them access to the actual best rookies available through father/son, academy etc etc. AFL always trying to have it both ways
It is pure luck and needs to be more fairly equated. Just look at the Dogs who have not had a bad hand at the draft in the last 10 years with many high draft picks and then they pick up Libba, Darcy, West and Croft for peanuts.
Gtfo if your ex players cant produce talented offspring youre just unlucky take the L
That's just stup!d.
Someone doesn’t understand the argument…
@@cmadelaide56 explain it for me
In other words father-son is just pure dumb luck, which should never be the case. The AFL is the only sport in the world with a draft system that incorporates such a dumb concession. They'd laugh their arses off about this all over the world if they were aware of it.
@@fredrickzoller5643 How about you just watch the video before commenting next time.
eddie talks to much ???
Northern academy rorts should end the minute an "expansion" club takes a father son in the draft. This disqualified the Sydney Swans 13 years ago and Brisbane 2 years ago. The FACT is that both of these clubs are still propped up for the television/advertising market.
100%
You are spot on bro 100% correct
Both Brisbane and Sydney might be expansion clubs from a geographic perspective, but with their Fitzroy and South Melbourne roots they have been around since Adam was a boy and were never disadvantaged from a father-son access point of view.
We should absolutely be propping up all the northern teams (and obviously any new teams in the south). Rugby is the target of those policies, not other AFL teams. That is how we grow the game!
Right, because Sydney and Brisbane clearly haven't lost multiple talented players to other clubs because of 'home-sickness'. The Academies for northern clubs are about home grown talent that STAYS. A club like Sydney should not feel like Chad Warner - a big time young player - is at risk of leaving what is otherwise a really well run high performing team to 'go home'. This is something most Victorian, South Australian and Western Australian clubs can't relate to given they have so many players on their list from their own state.
Heeney and Gulden are an example of a system that works. Two kids who perhaps would never have reached that level without the presence of the Academy that Sydney has put its own money into. That then keeps another talent prospect available for other clubs. It's about growing the talent pool for the benefit of all. The issue is that small-minded Victorian fans can't possibly understand the inherent disadvantages many non-Victorian clubs face and instead seem so fixated on keeping things 'equal' rather than actual equity.
St Kilda as a football club is a sihtstain on the AFL. they havent been relevant or a major club since 2009. They have become a second rate club that nobody really desperately wants to go. They havent had any player that is a true factor since Robert Harvey. The Saints are in the same range as North Melbourne
It is though. We finished 18th and our 2nd pick was like 30. While the tin rattlers keep getting handouts
A lot of the time father son picks become list cloggers
Outside pick 10 it’s all pot luck really.
There’s only 1 answer: this or this. Huh?
The discussion will never go anywhere while Northern academies, next gen academies and father sons are lumped together. NGA rules have already changed which is why Mac Andrew plays for Gold Coast and not Melbourne. Father sons are luck of the draw. My team (WC) had an amazing team in the 1990s and those players are now 50-60 years old. The only father son player of note to come out of that is Jake Waterman who is having a breakout season as a key forward and his dad was a back pocket. Meanwhile sons of Peter Matera, Chris Mainwaring, Peter Sumich etc. have not made it past WAFL level. Northern academies are completely different, they are designed to be a talent pathway in lieu of the NAB League, WAFL colts etc. The issue is that it's the best of both worlds for 4 clubs. There is no internal debate over picking a Tom Green or Braeden Campbell instead of a Lachie Ash or Logan McDonald because the rules allow both. Since picking Tom Green in 2019 GWS have used 9 first round picks on players developed in Vic/SA/WA over 4 drafts. People threw their toys out of the cot that Gold Coast picked 4 academy players last year but said nothing about Humphrey at pick 6, Andrew at pick 5, Hollands at pick 7 and the rest of the players they picked when there weren't first round academy players on offer. The system as constructed pretty much guarantees that first round calibre Qld/NSW players end up at Qld/NSW clubs and everyone else goes into a real draft pool. Andrew Dillon and Laura Kane wouldn't even know if the system is working or not but will justify that it is and that it is fair.
There should be no right to players from academies full stop. They should enter the draft like any other player. No academy should be affiliated with a club.
While the AFL wants to continue to grow financially as a whole, there cannot be fairness anyway. So this issue is one of many inconsistencies. What is the AFL vision - growth or fairness? Rhetorically asked - (overrated) money always wins.
The draft is not a draft its contrived
Get rid of father son rules.
Maybe if St Kilda didn't sack Ratten for the most negative coach in the AFL they would do better too.
Kick Collingwood out the Comp.
I agree and deport all their supporters
There is no comp without Collingwood.
@@nevmat1595that’s like kicking Ferrari out of Formula One
@@nevmat1595👍🤜👊🤛👊✊️👍
Darcy Moore and his hamstrings ?? Has nothing to do with argument - father son is BS anyway
2014: Saints took Billing’s over Bont and DeGoey. Cry about it.
Not the other clubs problems that stkilda doesnt have any good sons 😂
Get rid of the academies before father son.
I think we gotta ditch father-son, absolutely not fit for a modern sport. Best youngsters go to worst teams, seems very easy logic. Absolutely agree with Lordo too, all the draft hype if we don’t know where any player will go is a positive.
Pies finished second last when they landed daicos bud 😂
St.Kilda...give me a spell!! you had your chance. You were gifted a slew of top draft picks coz you were crap.... Reiwoldt, Kozzie, Ball, Goddard, Clarke, Montangna..... and you still ballsed it up
father son should stay, but there has to more given up, seems fair enough to me
Bring in DNA test 😅
Father son has to go. Should just be whoever’s best goes to the worst team
Typical whinging and moaning from south of the border. Can't have anyone outside Victoria going well, that is just a rort 🤦♂️😂. Chief complaints coming from a club blames its utter crapness on interstate clubs. Go take a hike!
So Daicos's are the greatest players of all time with they're big nose 😂🤣
Correct
St Kilda poor history catching up with them. Think ive seen more father sons out of Adelaide and Port than St.Kilda.
The fact through their 150+ years and x135 100 gamers the fact that they have produced a handful of players eligible for F/S it is laughable. Joke of a club.
The AFL is no longer a team sport it is an entertainment business. Get rid of this romance historical crap because the AFL was established in 1990 regardless of the state league it built off and move forward.
Father Son is such a dumb concept. The game will be better without it
The best juniors are meant to go to the worst clubs - N Daicos, Darcy, Ugle Hagan, Ashcroft all went to clubs in premiership contention.
Pies finished 17th the year before they drafted N Daicos though?
@@deanhuynh3178yeah that’s exactly right lol and they changed coaches. Old mate doesn’t even know what he’s talking about
@@deanhuynh3178 That one COVID year was an anomaly and they got him cheap because other clubs didn't bid on him in the knowledge that he was going to the Pies:
2018 - 3rd and lost GF by 5 points
2019 - 4th and lost Prelim by 4 points
2020 - 8th and won a qualifying final
2021 - 17th
2022- 4th and lost Prelim by 1 point
2023 - Minor and major Premiers.
@@gustaaf1892 Exactly what he said!
@@gustaaf1892what do you mean other clubs didn’t bid on him 😂 Gold Coast bid on him, and gws bid on Sam Darcy with pick 2, Gold Coast also ended up using that pick on Melbourne academy player in Mac Andrew. Go back and look on google, people were saying Horne Francis was a better player cause he was playing against men and daicos was playing against kids. Pies also sacked their coach and offloaded treloar and co due to salary cap relief 😂 everyone said they were done when they finished second last.
4:05 "If you're running a serious football competition." How about holding the Grand Final in other venues aside from Collingwoods home ground then?
Pass. The contracts pretty clear. The GF will be held between Richmond and Collingwood for the next hundred years. The MCG. How about stop bitching about it.
And our home ground is still Victoria Park. Don't like it sell more tickets. Another busted ass club supporter
Eddie is such a tool lol If Daicos was coming to pies next year he would be up in arms