3 rules for a 2020 electric car: -Big Battery with thermal system (at least 60 kWh) -100 kW charging power (with a charging curve like etron, so a flat one) -Efficient powertrain with heat recovery system for climate control.
@@dominoc5 It's the other way round. Audi is NOT using the whole capacity. That's why it's charging so fast even at high SoC. My musts for my future EV: - Big Battery (around 75kWh) - 10 to 90% DC charging in not more than 30 minutes - Heat pump - 22 kW AC charging
@Vladislav Velizanin with a 60 kWh car you have the perfect spot between range and efficiency for a medium size car. 300 km of range at least in motorways and 400 in city. The car with little range will have a problem with charging infrastracture in the future. Look at the new 500e, 42 kWh battery and 100kW charging power for a small car.
Prices in Germany after the new 2020 incentives E-UP/Seat/Skoda around 15k Ioniq around 25k MG isnt avaible in Germany Nearly double the price so hard to compare. E-UP/Skoda/Seats are citycars with semi fast charging but thats fine for most people when you re travelling a lot you pick another car either way.
@@davithdevries6774 thanks for the information. Just heared that many Model 3's/e-Tron's were sold in December in the NL. Do you know if MG also sold some cars ? Some kind of incentives run out in 2019 or what was the reason for the hype in Decembre?
The hype in the Netherlands was incentives with a 4% lease construction for 5 years in 2019, it changed this year to 8%. Tesla model 3 sales in december 2019: 12000. In january this year: 39 till now.
@@christianscheidt57 EVs are expensive so are almost exclusively bought as business vehicles (mostly self employed businesses), in that way all their expenses (incl purchase price) are tax deductible, which in Netherlands saves between 37 to 51% income tax depending on your income. In the Netherlands it is allowed to use your business vehicle for private use, but you have to pay an additional tax liability for private use (because you have big tax profits with your business use) . For ICE cars this is 22% per year of the catalog purchase price (so about 5.500€/year for an average 25K ICE car), this number has to be added to your gross income, so ie. you pay 37% tax over 5.500. For EVs, there is an incentive tariff of 4% (up to 50.000€), which means for a 50.000 M3 SR+ only 2000€/yr is added to your gross income for private use, so FAR less than a much cheaper ICE car. This incentive made a Model 3 SR+ in Total Cost of Ownership about as expensive as VW Polo ( as a commercial vehicle with private use that is) . The majority of the population doesn't have a own business of course, so they are out. This tariff will reduce each year, now its 8% up to 45.000 and will gradually become 22% again in 2026 I believe. So only in 2019 it was really affordable to buy a Tesla (or any other EV) in Netherlands. This explains the abysmal sales in January (and they will continue to be bad).
So far, after 500 km, i'm really happy with my e-Golf. Right now, during "winter" in the Netherlands, my average consimption is14,5 kWh/100 km wit my daily commute. I've done one fadt charge and was pleasantly suprised how quick it was. A toiletbreak and a coffee was enough time. If only the golf was a stationwagon, with 50 kWh battery and 100 kW fastcharging 🤔
After almost 30.000km in e-Golf (24kWh version), I can only say that it is the best Golf I've ever driven. But if you need more range than two to three batteries worth, i.e. >300km, then you are pretty much screwed with that non-Tesla CCS infrastructure in Europe. It is definitely possible, but not conveinient at all. I liked the e-Golf, but after I got my Model 3, I'd never go back. There is more to e-Mobility thant slapping an electric drive train to a nice car, you know....
@@chrism.9721 in the Netherlands, the charging infrastructure is really good. I've gone from a Fiat Panda 1.1 petrol to the e-Golf and its a huge transition...but riding the e-Golf made it very clear how far ahead Tesla is over the competition.
I plan my trips with meal breaks. There are two types: 1) Lunch (60 mins) 2) A pee and a coffee (20mins). Driving a Model S 85 these period of times mean that 50kW is all i need, the car just finishes charging when i finish the breaks. When Supercharging the car is finished 1/2 way through the break.....and in theory i then need to go and move the car which is actually annoying. Keep in mind that fast charging decreases battery life too. Only electron guzzlers like I-Pace and Etron need extreme charging speeds to compensate for their inefficient design. Of course everybody has different situations and personal preferences plus where i live the speed limit is 100/110 km/h. But for me HPCs are about selling a lot of juice quickly at an inflated rate.
I think we should not discuss charging power not just in terms of kW but also in terms of C rate, i.e. in relation to capacity. The old Ioniq does up to 2,3C (66kW, 28kWh battery), the new one only does like 1,2C (45kW, 38kWh battery). What I still miss to see is a comparison between cars in terms oh capacity charged over time, and maybe gain of range over time.
Actually, the e-Up is around 8.000 € cheaper (base trim costs 21.500 €) than the classic IONIQ in Germany. Even the ZS EV will cost at least around 30.000 € (if available).
Last time I checked this month the ZS EV was EUR32,000/34,000, so about at par with the Ioniq and only a couple of thousands below the Kona/Nero EV. To take a gamble with MG (in regard to long term reliability and resale value) the ZS had to be below 30,000.
I paid £21700 for my Ioniq classic ® new from showroom. Makes these newer EVs look ridiculous. So glad I made the choice/lucky with timing..... Yes!!! 70kw for the win!!! 😁
The opinion about what is better: faster charging speed or bigger battery depends on your needs. If you never drive further than let us say 300 - 400 KM a day and charge from home, then a bigger battery is better. However if you often drive 400KM+ then quicker charging speed is better. Bigger batteries are also more expensive and may be out of budget for many people, so I agree with Bjorn :-)
I had quite some rapidgate after a fast Autobahn drive of about 150km, almost constantly 120-135kph when possible + high outside temp. 110-120 seems ideal for a good charging speed on the eUp. I got 12,2kWh from 7-46% in 30 Min. Quite a lot less than you got.
Range v Charging speed needs to consider infrastructure roll out. Here in Australia range is king because infrastructure is extremely poor off Highways
So as always: It depends :-) If you use the car on short stretches in the city range is more important or even 3-phase charging on AC as you chargeon AC most of the time. On long stretches charging speed becomes more important or to be exact getting km per hour, as the efficiency of the car helps if consumption ist low. And if you want good chargig speed, you should have a look on the C-Rate. Small batteries can't be charged too fast. Depending on the chemistry of the battery it might be saver to use 1.5C like these three cars instead of 3C like Model 3SR+. Longterm usage will show if Tesla is OK with it.
I too think the charging speed is the most important think for most people. Even if you have short range car, you don't mind so much if you know you will charge it quickly. For example with Enevate battery. And it will be even better in the future. Today's EV's will be selling used for bargains. I think psychological boundary is max 10, maybe 8 minutes for charging to almost full. Today's EV's are the vanguard's to the new era.
Totally agree, charging speed is really important, unless you only have EV as second car for you daily comute where you dont have to charge, you need proper DC charging. Yes range is important, but if you have 250 - 300km of rated range than charging speed starts to be more important than range, I would rather have car with 400km range (Model 3 SR+) than car with with 500km (like Kona) which charges at 170kwh than 75kwh. Its 2020 and new EVs should be able to take at least 80 - 100kwh and those with bigger bateries (70 - 80kw) should take at least 120 - 150kwh.
the eUp has a lot less space than the eGolf. so they had to go for high energy density cells. high energy density cells charge slower. it is always a trade off between energy density and power density. that’s why the voltage is also lower. they just could not fit any more cells. it’s probably a single string of ~120Ah high energy density cells. if you can’t actively cool or heat them they will charge slow. and the up really costs just 21k€ fully loaded. not 30k. it’s very cheap for a european made car (wages, suppliers, cost of energy much higher than in china)
Your comment about charging speed vs range/battery size applies only to longer trips - trips beyond the range of the car. But the fact is that most people very rarely do such long trips. In that sense I think that a bigger battery for most people would be more appealing, because they simply would almost never have to use a DC fast charger. Home charging is one of the strongest arguments with regards to convenience to switch to EV, after all. However fast a car can charge, it cannot beat a fossil car when it to comes to both speed and convenience. Price is also not a real argument as DC chargers can be very expensive to use (Ionity?). But with home charging, it's very convenient (no more detours for gas station) and VERY cheap to run an EV. In the ideal world however, BOTH will make a lot of progress. A range above 500km and from 10-80% DC in 20 minutes for an affordable price, and fossil cars are as good as gone. Clearly it's possible but we're not there yet.
The e-UP/Mii electric/Citigo e-iV are purposefully made to be cheap, and to enhance the "cheap car" feeling they probably also made the charging slower so that they would not compete with cars costing more.
In Finland we have this thing called reilu meininki. Seat Mii electric 15900 euros Hyundai Ioniq 39390 euros So yeah, they are in different league. Actually UpMiGo has it's own league, nothing else comes even close.
Ok, to be fair, there was in extra 2000 euros incentive by Seat if you ordered in 2019. Currently Mii electric starts from 17900. The one I ordered was 18k with literally every accessory that was possible to get. But I'm not going to defend it all that much. It's a small, cheap car for commuting. Plan is to go to work with Mii and to Lapland with my Prius.
I was rewatching the video, since I got recently my Citigoe IV, and I can confirm 55% in 27 min and 60% 35 min. With a estimated sommer range 200km than it really slows down. It is in deed too slow for 2020, agree. I can live with that, but it gets me worried for the future, Chinesse companies can do indeed better, that could be a death blow in the entry level EV market. BTW E-Up, Citigoe, Mee will stop production anyway, very worrying move.
@@bjornnyland I didn't define ultra short distance by 250 km. Instead I was referring to the vehicle size/ category and comfort. Which is clearly meant for short trips Edit: and 250 city range is even better, then you can charge at home every ~5 days, which makes fast charging even less critical for that type of vehicle category
Really interesting test thanks Bjorn, surprised that a newer battery type in the eUp does not charge as well as the eGolf. How do you ensure consistent battery temp for the test - would this make much of a difference. Early on I think you mixed up amps and KW (maybe at 2'40 to 3 mins describing the Golf and Ioniq)
When are you going to charge test corsa e 50kw 100kw charging speed they say full in 30 min Would like to know range as well doing 70mph will it do 180 mile with 10 miles left ?
Range, battery capacity and charging speed are not independent. Charging speed (in km/minute) is dependent on how much power you can push into the battery. The power depends on the voltage (which is defined by the pack size) and the current (which is limited on a per battery cell basis). P_charge=U*I More cells (in parallel) means you can apply more current and hence get more charging speed. Too much current on a *per cell* basis frags the cathode. As for the pure 10%-90% metric: That is pretty meaningless to a driver. What's important on long trips is how many km/minute you get into the battery pack (This is also impacted by energy efficiency. Hence the Model S charges faster than an eTron even though the eTron charges at higher power. Also ability to cool the battery plays a role as this can keep the charge rate up longer, because heat losses scale with internal resistance and current squared. P_loss = R * I^2) In summary: you can't make a 30kWh battery that charges at 200kW, while it is very easy to make a 200kWh battery that can charge at 200kW. Unless there is some major battery breakthrough we will not see small EVs (
Hyundai are changing to 800 V batteries for 2021 and a dedicated EV platform, at least that's what they said, probably end of 2021 but that would be real progress.
Bjørn you mixed up Amp with kW a few times;) but thank you anyway for this great video. I was thinking about buying an E-Golf , because its getting really cheap now for a really good efficient car!:)
e-Up is much smaller.....logic that its cheaper.....u should compare e-Up with another small car or compare the MG with a VW Golf...... For the same money as the e-UP u can buy a 2 year old Ionic.....u get way more car then....
Absolutely agree, better for the environment too and will be cheaper to buy so a win win, as long as the daily commute is covered easily in winter then I don't see the need for huge batteries
I guess Robert is living on an island and if your range is long enough on an island, you will hardly ever have to fast charge. So for island dwellers range will be more important than charging speed.
To compare more fairly, what do you think of also calculating the charging speed km/min ? If you have the average consumption in kWh/km (C) and the charging speed in kW (S), you have the charging speed in km/min S' = S / (C * 60)
Bjorn - your videos are closely monitored by Hyundai where they - a little late - have realised how sensitive the marked is to charging speed versus distance. Making a less attractive 2020 model make Ionic's loose its leading position it had up to 2019.
Yes, who (apart from e-tron owners) fast charges to 90% in 2020? You stop charging when charging speed starts tapering off. Which in e-up/ioniq 2020 is 35 mins from 10% to 67%. With e-up! price point, Not great, not terrible. Ioniq, well, terrible.
On of the last compliance cars. What a joke in 2020 an EV with an production of 5.000 per year not week.. Half the battery of a 2018 Kona EV, what the heck 32 kWh in a car for around 40k ..
Haha... sort of Bjørge Lillelien comments (probably best known to Norwegians). Now you're just missing one who can simulate Jon Herwig Carlsen as a secondary commentator :)
Two of the slowest charging Evs on the market, one of them an "Update".... Hey Björn, why dont you test the real Kings like E 208 and Co? The first test are out from german UA-camrs. Ugly loading speeds. E 208 goes at 100 kwh and holds over 50 kw until 60 Percent! It is not a different class! Corsa, E 208 make 90 kwh easily! Ioniq FL is priced much to high for the EUp loading speed! The E 208 is much better for Highwaytrips than the old highway King Ioniq. Its a shame. Who buys an Ioniq for 41000 Euros, if the M3 is 44500 and a Kona or esoul are loading much faster and have big batteries?
CO2 is the main component a petrol car produces....there are also smaller amounts of other unhealthy gasses........My reply is mainly meant for the NO2 that a Diesel produces, that is a bigger problem.........
3 rules for a 2020 electric car:
-Big Battery with thermal system (at least 60 kWh)
-100 kW charging power (with a charging curve like etron, so a flat one)
-Efficient powertrain with heat recovery system for climate control.
there isn't really a flat charging curve. I'm sure Audi is just using the whole capacity :)
@@dominoc5 It's the other way round. Audi is NOT using the whole capacity. That's why it's charging so fast even at high SoC.
My musts for my future EV:
- Big Battery (around 75kWh)
- 10 to 90% DC charging in not more than 30 minutes
- Heat pump
- 22 kW AC charging
@Vladislav Velizanin No it is not. Not in all cases. Depends on the usage of our car.
@Vladislav Velizanin with a 60 kWh car you have the perfect spot between range and efficiency for a medium size car. 300 km of range at least in motorways and 400 in city. The car with little range will have a problem with charging infrastracture in the future. Look at the new 500e, 42 kWh battery and 100kW charging power for a small car.
Started to think my watching speed was set to x1,5 or x2 since Bjørn was is talking som damn fast!!
i usually watch these 2x speed, now it was hard to understand all :D
Prices in Germany after the new 2020 incentives
E-UP/Seat/Skoda around 15k
Ioniq around 25k
MG isnt avaible in Germany
Nearly double the price so hard to compare.
E-UP/Skoda/Seats are citycars with semi fast charging but thats fine for most people when you re travelling a lot you pick another car either way.
MG would be around 30K before incentives ( it is in the Netherlands), so about the same as Ionic, 10.000€ more than e-Up/Mii/Citigo.
@@davithdevries6774 thanks for the information. Just heared that many Model 3's/e-Tron's were sold in December in the NL. Do you know if MG also sold some cars ? Some kind of incentives run out in 2019 or what was the reason for the hype in Decembre?
The hype in the Netherlands was incentives with a 4% lease construction for 5 years in 2019, it changed this year to 8%. Tesla model 3 sales in december 2019: 12000. In january this year: 39 till now.
@@christianscheidt57 MG sold a thousand cars in december 2019 in the Netherlands. So pretty good result!
@@christianscheidt57 EVs are expensive so are almost exclusively bought as business vehicles (mostly self employed businesses), in that way all their expenses (incl purchase price) are tax deductible, which in Netherlands saves between 37 to 51% income tax depending on your income. In the Netherlands it is allowed to use your business vehicle for private use, but you have to pay an additional tax liability for private use (because you have big tax profits with your business use) .
For ICE cars this is 22% per year of the catalog purchase price (so about 5.500€/year for an average 25K ICE car), this number has to be added to your gross income, so ie. you pay 37% tax over 5.500. For EVs, there is an incentive tariff of 4% (up to 50.000€), which means for a 50.000 M3 SR+ only 2000€/yr is added to your gross income for private use, so FAR less than a much cheaper ICE car. This incentive made a Model 3 SR+ in Total Cost of Ownership about as expensive as VW Polo ( as a commercial vehicle with private use that is) . The majority of the population doesn't have a own business of course, so they are out. This tariff will reduce each year, now its 8% up to 45.000 and will gradually become 22% again in 2026 I believe. So only in 2019 it was really affordable to buy a Tesla (or any other EV) in Netherlands. This explains the abysmal sales in January (and they will continue to be bad).
So far, after 500 km, i'm really happy with my e-Golf. Right now, during "winter" in the Netherlands, my average consimption is14,5 kWh/100 km wit my daily commute. I've done one fadt charge and was pleasantly suprised how quick it was. A toiletbreak and a coffee was enough time.
If only the golf was a stationwagon, with 50 kWh battery and 100 kW fastcharging 🤔
After almost 30.000km in e-Golf (24kWh version), I can only say that it is the best Golf I've ever driven. But if you need more range than two to three batteries worth, i.e. >300km, then you are pretty much screwed with that non-Tesla CCS infrastructure in Europe. It is definitely possible, but not conveinient at all. I liked the e-Golf, but after I got my Model 3, I'd never go back. There is more to e-Mobility thant slapping an electric drive train to a nice car, you know....
@@chrism.9721 in the Netherlands, the charging infrastructure is really good. I've gone from a Fiat Panda 1.1 petrol to the e-Golf and its a huge transition...but riding the e-Golf made it very clear how far ahead Tesla is over the competition.
@@sevnpicoferro5352 a tough claim, the e golf cost about 29k here in finland while the cheapest model 3 is about 50k
I plan my trips with meal breaks. There are two types: 1) Lunch (60 mins) 2) A pee and a coffee (20mins). Driving a Model S 85 these period of times mean that 50kW is all i need, the car just finishes charging when i finish the breaks. When Supercharging the car is finished 1/2 way through the break.....and in theory i then need to go and move the car which is actually annoying. Keep in mind that fast charging decreases battery life too. Only electron guzzlers like I-Pace and Etron need extreme charging speeds to compensate for their inefficient design. Of course everybody has different situations and personal preferences plus where i live the speed limit is 100/110 km/h. But for me HPCs are about selling a lot of juice quickly at an inflated rate.
Soo I sense a BMW i3 1000km challenge coming up?... Should perform really good in its class
I think we should not discuss charging power not just in terms of kW but also in terms of C rate, i.e. in relation to capacity. The old Ioniq does up to 2,3C (66kW, 28kWh battery), the new one only does like 1,2C (45kW, 38kWh battery).
What I still miss to see is a comparison between cars in terms oh capacity charged over time, and maybe gain of range over time.
Actually, the e-Up is around 8.000 € cheaper (base trim costs 21.500 €) than the classic IONIQ in Germany. Even the ZS EV will cost at least around 30.000 € (if available).
Last time I checked this month the ZS EV was EUR32,000/34,000, so about at par with the Ioniq and only a couple of thousands below the Kona/Nero EV. To take a gamble with MG (in regard to long term reliability and resale value) the ZS had to be below 30,000.
My Classic Ioniq charge from 10% to 71% in 20 min @ 4 degrees celcius @ a 150kW charger.
How far do you get on highway?
I paid £21700 for my Ioniq classic ® new from showroom.
Makes these newer EVs look ridiculous.
So glad I made the choice/lucky with timing.....
Yes!!! 70kw for the win!!! 😁
Christoffer Øvervoll 170km in cold weather. @ 3-10 degrees i get about 140km @ 70%soc
@@Golfgtr18t thanks. Brcaus ebjørn said in Denmark and German highway it only gets 100.
Christoffer Øvervoll With 100 km you can drive faster (120-130 km/h) and there is a buffer if a charger is broken.
The opinion about what is better: faster charging speed or bigger battery depends on your needs. If you never drive further than let us say 300 - 400 KM a day and charge from home, then a bigger battery is better. However if you often drive 400KM+ then quicker charging speed is better. Bigger batteries are also more expensive and may be out of budget for many people, so I agree with Bjorn :-)
1C and less sucks balls. I agree, all should be charging 2-3C by now. Keep up the good work Bjorn!
such a great video, this sort of comparisons is what people need to understand the real charging speed
really pleased that new Smart eQ has 22 kw on board charger, perfect for on street city charging
I had quite some rapidgate after a fast Autobahn drive of about 150km, almost constantly 120-135kph when possible + high outside temp.
110-120 seems ideal for a good charging speed on the eUp.
I got 12,2kWh from 7-46% in 30 Min. Quite a lot less than you got.
Range v Charging speed needs to consider infrastructure roll out. Here in Australia range is king because infrastructure is extremely poor off Highways
Not too bad for a
The Mii could (maybe still can somwhere?) got for 15600€! I am waiting for the price drop on the older models :P
@@rkan2 I got it for 154€/month with almost every option equipped. Old eUp are most likely gonna drop like 50% in value.
@@shockwave1xD I'd be happy to get the old e-up at like 6000-7000e in 2020
In Italy, Ioniq costs almost twice than e-up (including dealers sales).
I think that e-Up still has a sense.
e up is so small
So as always: It depends :-) If you use the car on short stretches in the city range is more important or even 3-phase charging on AC as you chargeon AC most of the time. On long stretches charging speed becomes more important or to be exact getting km per hour, as the efficiency of the car helps if consumption ist low. And if you want good chargig speed, you should have a look on the C-Rate. Small batteries can't be charged too fast. Depending on the chemistry of the battery it might be saver to use 1.5C like these three cars instead of 3C like Model 3SR+. Longterm usage will show if Tesla is OK with it.
I too think the charging speed is the most important think for most people. Even if you have short range car, you don't mind so much if you know you will charge it quickly. For example with Enevate battery. And it will be even better in the future. Today's EV's will be selling used for bargains. I think psychological boundary is max 10, maybe 8 minutes for charging to almost full. Today's EV's are the vanguard's to the new era.
This is better than Super Bowl.
Totally agree, charging speed is really important, unless you only have EV as second car for you daily comute where you dont have to charge, you need proper DC charging. Yes range is important, but if you have 250 - 300km of rated range than charging speed starts to be more important than range, I would rather have car with 400km range (Model 3 SR+) than car with with 500km (like Kona) which charges at 170kwh than 75kwh. Its 2020 and new EVs should be able to take at least 80 - 100kwh and those with bigger bateries (70 - 80kw) should take at least 120 - 150kwh.
Excellent comparison, but for me a better comparison would time needed to add e.g 100 km for each car.
the eUp has a lot less space than the eGolf. so they had to go for high energy density cells. high energy density cells charge slower. it is always a trade off between energy density and power density.
that’s why the voltage is also lower. they just could not fit any more cells. it’s probably a single string of ~120Ah high energy density cells. if you can’t actively cool or heat them they will charge slow. and the up really costs just 21k€ fully loaded. not 30k. it’s very cheap for a european made car (wages, suppliers, cost of energy much higher than in china)
So true about charging speed
Your comment about charging speed vs range/battery size applies only to longer trips - trips beyond the range of the car. But the fact is that most people very rarely do such long trips. In that sense I think that a bigger battery for most people would be more appealing, because they simply would almost never have to use a DC fast charger.
Home charging is one of the strongest arguments with regards to convenience to switch to EV, after all. However fast a car can charge, it cannot beat a fossil car when it to comes to both speed and convenience. Price is also not a real argument as DC chargers can be very expensive to use (Ionity?).
But with home charging, it's very convenient (no more detours for gas station) and VERY cheap to run an EV.
In the ideal world however, BOTH will make a lot of progress. A range above 500km and from 10-80% DC in 20 minutes for an affordable price, and fossil cars are as good as gone. Clearly it's possible but we're not there yet.
The e-UP/Mii electric/Citigo e-iV are purposefully made to be cheap, and to enhance the "cheap car" feeling they probably also made the charging slower so that they would not compete with cars costing more.
Love the videos Bjorn. Keep it up.
In Finland we have this thing called reilu meininki.
Seat Mii electric 15900 euros
Hyundai Ioniq 39390 euros
So yeah, they are in different league. Actually UpMiGo has it's own league, nothing else comes even close.
Ok, to be fair, there was in extra 2000 euros incentive by Seat if you ordered in 2019. Currently Mii electric starts from 17900. The one I ordered was 18k with literally every accessory that was possible to get. But I'm not going to defend it all that much. It's a small, cheap car for commuting. Plan is to go to work with Mii and to Lapland with my Prius.
I was rewatching the video, since I got recently my Citigoe IV, and I can confirm 55% in 27 min and 60% 35 min. With a estimated sommer range 200km than it really slows down. It is in deed too slow for 2020, agree. I can live with that, but it gets me worried for the future, Chinesse companies can do indeed better, that could be a death blow in the entry level EV market. BTW E-Up, Citigoe, Mee will stop production anyway, very worrying move.
I think because the e-Up is meant for ultra-short distances and city driving the lower charging speed is not that important.
250 km is ultra-short distance?
@@bjornnyland I didn't define ultra short distance by 250 km. Instead I was referring to the vehicle size/ category and comfort. Which is clearly meant for short trips
Edit: and 250 city range is even better, then you can charge at home every ~5 days, which makes fast charging even less critical for that type of vehicle category
Really interesting test thanks Bjorn, surprised that a newer battery type in the eUp does not charge as well as the eGolf. How do you ensure consistent battery temp for the test - would this make much of a difference. Early on I think you mixed up amps and KW (maybe at 2'40 to 3 mins describing the Golf and Ioniq)
When are you going to charge test corsa e 50kw 100kw charging speed they say full in 30 min
Would like to know range as well doing 70mph will it do 180 mile with 10 miles left ?
Hmmmm a new Sport is born and brings the Moderator with..... 😁 Like Tesla: Want an Ev? Ok, and here is the Charging net on top. 😆
Yo! Nothin much! Just chilling and charging back in my 3. Oh yes. Nice Flux Capacitor Battle.
Range, battery capacity and charging speed are not independent. Charging speed (in km/minute) is dependent on how much power you can push into the battery. The power depends on the voltage (which is defined by the pack size) and the current (which is limited on a per battery cell basis).
P_charge=U*I
More cells (in parallel) means you can apply more current and hence get more charging speed. Too much current on a *per cell* basis frags the cathode.
As for the pure 10%-90% metric: That is pretty meaningless to a driver. What's important on long trips is how many km/minute you get into the battery pack
(This is also impacted by energy efficiency. Hence the Model S charges faster than an eTron even though the eTron charges at higher power. Also ability to cool the battery plays a role as this can keep the charge rate up longer, because heat losses scale with internal resistance and current squared. P_loss = R * I^2)
In summary: you can't make a 30kWh battery that charges at 200kW, while it is very easy to make a 200kWh battery that can charge at 200kW. Unless there is some major battery breakthrough we will not see small EVs (
Hyundai are changing to 800 V batteries for 2021 and a dedicated EV platform, at least that's what they said, probably end of 2021 but that would be real progress.
efficiency and charging speed is important for a EV.
Bjørn you mixed up Amp with kW a few times;) but thank you anyway for this great video. I was thinking about buying an E-Golf , because its getting really cheap now for a really good efficient car!:)
Interesting, would like to see what the E 208 manages when it is out.
e-Up costs about 19.000 Euro after incentives. 11.000 Euro less than MG ZS EV.
e-Up is much smaller.....logic that its cheaper.....u should compare e-Up with another small car or compare the MG with a VW Golf......
For the same money as the e-UP u can buy a 2 year old Ionic.....u get way more car then....
Thats what i mean you can get a Mii under 15k . You can feel happy if you get an base ioniq for 25k.
Bjørn, you mentioned several time the "i3", is it the BMW i3?
This car has 153 miles range, or 200 miles for the Rex.
Yup, Robert Llewellyn is wrong!!!
Faster charging + smaller battery is the way to go!!!! 😎
Absolutely agree, better for the environment too and will be cheaper to buy so a win win, as long as the daily commute is covered easily in winter then I don't see the need for huge batteries
I hope Enevate can help make it Reality.
Small battery only works if infrastructure is very dense or you only charge at home.
So does the new Ioniq charge faster or does the Leaf 40kwh leaf charge faster.
If I remember right the Leaf throttles down at 64%.
I guess Robert is living on an island and if your range is long enough on an island, you will hardly ever have to fast charge. So for island dwellers range will be more important than charging speed.
Ioniq for the win 👍
I love this battles 😁 and i want to compare charging curve this 3 car.
To compare more fairly, what do you think of also calculating the charging speed km/min ?
If you have the average consumption in kWh/km (C) and the charging speed in kW (S), you have the charging speed in km/min S' = S / (C * 60)
"C" has a special meaning for charging, already, as in 1C or 2C charging rates. Coulomb.
Bjorn - your videos are closely monitored by Hyundai where they - a little late - have realised how sensitive the marked is to charging speed versus distance. Making a less attractive 2020 model make Ionic's loose its leading position it had up to 2019.
my 33 Kwh i3 charges at 50 Kw all the way to about 85% and still 30 Kw at 90%.
Imagine still taking 68mins to charge your car from 10% to 90% in 2020.
Yes, very slow.
Yes, who (apart from e-tron owners) fast charges to 90% in 2020? You stop charging when charging speed starts tapering off. Which in e-up/ioniq 2020 is 35 mins from 10% to 67%. With e-up! price point, Not great, not terrible. Ioniq, well, terrible.
Nice Ladetour in P (park) :)
Looking smart with your new haircut ;)
What do you think about the new e-Mini?
On of the last compliance cars.
What a joke in 2020 an EV with an production of 5.000 per year not week..
Half the battery of a 2018 Kona EV, what the heck 32 kWh in a car for around 40k ..
Totally agree wtih you
Haha... sort of Bjørge Lillelien comments (probably best known to Norwegians). Now you're just missing one who can simulate Jon Herwig Carlsen as a secondary commentator :)
Ok
wth is wrong with the speed of this video? or is TB talking soo fast! lol
I think you might have mistakenly said "kW" instead of "ampere" a couple of times there.
Brainfart
@@bjornnyland Happens to the best of us. Nice video(s), really enjoying the 1000 km. challenges and road trips.
What the heck ? Ioniq has only 0.3 kwh buffer ?
👍
Too funny!!!
Here in Italy Ionity will charge 0,79€ x kwh...
Disappointing.... Even my former 24kWh e-Golf got better rates (About 44-46 kW)
Two of the slowest charging Evs on the market, one of them an "Update"....
Hey Björn, why dont you test the real Kings like E 208 and Co? The first test are out from german UA-camrs.
Ugly loading speeds. E 208 goes at 100 kwh and holds over 50 kw until 60 Percent!
It is not a different class! Corsa, E 208 make 90 kwh easily! Ioniq FL is priced much to high for the EUp loading speed! The E 208 is much better for Highwaytrips than the old highway King Ioniq. Its a shame. Who buys an Ioniq for 41000 Euros, if the M3 is 44500 and a Kona or esoul are loading much faster and have big batteries?
Hydrogen car:
Diesel:>push out NO2
Petrol:>push out CO2
@@johndrawing1176 CO2 emissions from making battery is higher, do your research.
CO2 is the main component a petrol car produces....there are also smaller amounts of other unhealthy gasses........My reply is mainly meant for the NO2 that a Diesel produces, that is a bigger problem.........
Hold my beer: ua-cam.com/video/pyOXdhX4m-A/v-deo.html
@@bjornnyland You lost because of the long unnecessary hotdog break, not because of the car.