Interesting video for sure. I will agree there are many companies selling jugs of garbage that failed in the ag industry and are now trying to sell it in hunting industry. We have a new liquid lime derived from calcium carbonate (with a soil surfactant) called 3 Cal. The brown liquid product you may be referring is just that…. Snake oil. It is calcium chloride, the same solution that is sprayed on highways before a snow storm. Feel free to contact us to discuss more. Thanks.
Hey John, thank you for the info. I hope all of us spreading knowledge can help consumers like me see through the marketing fog produced by these companies. Time will vet these guys out, it always does. All the best to you.
Hey my friend. Another great video. Thank you for sharing. I’m still battling Marestail here on my farm. I did hit it with glyphosate and 2-4-D a couple of weeks ago. But I don’t think I could get my fall plot planted in time before we get hit by frost. I may just throw some winter rye down and make plans for next year. Try and take care of the weeds (marestail) right away in the spring. Excellent explanation on the lime (carbonate). Thank you again for taking the time for your video. I always look forward for the next one.
Thank you. Ugh....Marestail. When I hit mine with that combo, it smoked it really well, and I haven't seen any this year. It does set you back 1-2 weeks for replanting though. Hopefully you still get a good enough stand. Good ole' rye grain is always a great plot saver if nothing works. All thte best to you.
Hey Mark, mystery weed is purselane and 2,4d will kill it. I fought that fight here in NY this year and that stuff is everywhere. A hot mix of glyphosate sometimes kills it from my experience but not always
Another very informative video. Try Dimethylamine Salt of 2,4-D Acid on the Horse Nettle. I still like spot spraying with Industrial Strength Vinegar. The weed with the red branches & succulent leaves, looks like Purslane which is edible (however the one with brown branches is poisonous).
Hey George, thank you. My buddy suggested spot spraying, too, but it is so prevalent in the plots I would basically be spraying 80% of them anyways. Ugh. And I'll leave the foraging to the deer, I'm color blind and wouldn't be able to tell red vs brown branches, a sure way to get sick! All the best to you.
Certainly Ag Lime is the gold standard, however, that can be time consuming getting the lime cart from the Co-Op and applying. I can see times when liquid lime makes sense, example- I have a new plot, 5.1pH. Calls for 4300#’s/ac. When I plant it I’m going to apply 2000#’s/ac of pellet lime as I can’t get a cart back there and I’m going to spray liquid lime on there at planting to increase my chances for plot success this fall. The pellet lime won’t have time to breakdown in time for this fall. I’m then going to have to come back and reapply 2000#’s/ac of pellet lime next year, I may even need to add liquid lime next year. So in this instance, I feel liquid lime is a good option for what I’m using it for. TBD on the long term use of it. Yes it’s more expensive but for those with limited equipment or time, liquid lime may be the answer. I’m going to try that 3Cal from Full Spectrum/Brad Harper/North Woods Whitetail.
Hey Ryan, AGREED! I failed to mentions the pro's and con's of each type, including the fast action of the liquid. I'll be doing another lime video soon to cover this and few other considerations as there have been quite a few follow up questions. All the best to you.
Pelletized is good, too. It's the same "stuff" as ag lime, just ground a little bit finer, with a coating added so you can run it through your spreader. A pound of pelletized does not have the same amount of carbonate as a pound of ag lime, and I don't have the exact amount handy right now, but I think it is in the 70-80% range. So you would take your ag lime recommendation and multiply by 1.25-ish to get the pelletized equivalent amount of carbonate. However, some would say that the pelletized lime will raise the pH faster because it is a smaller particle and thus will do it's "thing" faster, so you don't need as much. I'll save that debate for others. Bottom line is to get carbonate on the plots in whatever form works best for you and your equipment, and test again the next year to see if you need more, until you get it right. All the best to you.
Good stuff, can you explain how peliltized lime has less calcium carbonate than powdered lime other than its a 40 pound bag vs. a 50 pound bag? Also, could you explain how pellitized lime is less expensive than powdered ag lime? I've found it to be the opposite as with pellitized you pay more for the conveience of not have to spread a powder. Thanks and keep these video's coming friend.
Hey Greg, yup, I'll add it to my list of upcoming videos, thanks for the idea. I'll have to check again, but I'm pretty sure you are correct that pelletized lime is more expensive than ag lime. All the best to you.
Need to spray gly mixed with 24d to wipe everything out and follow up with one or 2 more spraying before planting and you should be good to go, just start your first spray around may june after the weeds have exploded and then spray only dont mow first! Watch jeff Sturgis and you will be good far as that goes, that plot start can't make up for tons of lime, it's is made to get the plant started and then your ag lime or pellet lime you applied months before takes over, and when your ph is more spot on the weeds wont like that neutral soil and wont be as bad yr after yr
@@theback40 on first one then gly in next 2, can get by with one if weeds or under control, your field looks pretty good so probably just 2 sprays timed out right and you should set them back enough to get your seed established. I got mine set back pretty good right now with 2 heavy gly sprays cause I got a late start and didn't want residual but I really wish I would have got some 24d down to really stump it, but I did get to mow it off 2 times before so it wasn't to out of control just a few thick spots! I'm just waiting on rain now, I should have a decent rain in 2 days 🤞, I may even hit it one quick light coat just for insurance on planting day!
Got it, thanks. I am already submitting to the idea that next spring and early summer is going to be torching the plots to get the weeds under control so we can start over, and stay on top of them from now on. Hope you get your rain soon!
Deer love purslane and also lambs quarter. Especially in a drought as purslane is full of water. Nursing does use these forbs to replenish the vitamins and minerals needed for milk production. Lambs quarter grows tall, and both are extremely browse tolerant. They make a great spring and summer food source and will die back after frosts. Unfortunately, while they grow good together, they will overtake and crowd out everything else out. However, if you leave them in controlled strips (between rows of undisturbed pasture grass), deer will hammer them all summer, and it keeps growing back. Soil disturbance is their friend.
I learned something today, thank you! Never would have thought they would browse on that stuff, I'll have to take a closer look next time I'm out there. It does seem like it is gaining traction and expanding, so I'll have to figure out if I want to keep some out there and control it somehow, or eliminate it all. All the best to you.
I use Plot Start 2.5 per acre and it helps on my sandy soil when I start a new plot. But.... I still apply every year granulated lime 1000 lb per acre. This combination works for me. I can see the difference in my clover field. Do not apply it to existing plants
Good to hear, I have been consdering the same thing. Adding spray fertilizers/starters to my food plot tool box, along with more herbicide knowledge is only going to improve things. All the best to you.
Hey George, to be clear, I am not an expert on this. However, for me, I will go for the tried and true Ag Lime, which is most cost effective and concentrated. If I don't feel like buying 50 pounds bags and spreading by hand, or if I don't have a local coop or farm supply store that can rent me a spreader buggy that I can have filled with ag lime and then pull to the property and pull around the plots with the tractor or truck, then I would go for pelletized lime in my spreader. The absolulte best way is to find someone that does all of it for you with a large spreader truck, but if you have small plots without large access roads, this isn't an option. All the best to you.
Ag mostly. I used pelletized a few times back when I had a spreader on the back of my tractor, but I sold that a few years ago when going no-till. But I haven't had to add any "lime" (carbonate) to lower pH for over 5 years now, which I think is a result of not using fertilizer anymore. All the best to you.
Hey Mark, I suppose it matters what someone's expectation is. Maybe a good product for just maintaining a plot with an annual spraying? I do know one thing, spreading good ole' lime has the right stuff in it and it works and is not very expensive. All the best to you
Yup, I can see that, too. Many ways to do it, and sharing our process helps spread knowledge so people can weigh the pros/cons and pick what works best for their situation. All the best to you.
Dirtman outdoor Read your bag. It tells you how many pounds it takes to raise soil acidity and it’s surprising! If you are in the 5’s it’s almost doing nothing.
@@midwesternoutdoorsandnatur8272 Good point. If you are just getting a new plot going and it has low pH, nothing is going to be better than ag lime in the long run. I had plots in the 5's back in the late 1990''s that I added ag lime to, and haven't had to add any since. It just works, no question.
Great video Mark, great explanation on the liquid "lime" product differences.
Thanks Jake. All the best to you.
Interesting video for sure.
I will agree there are many companies selling jugs of garbage that failed in the ag industry and are now trying to sell it in hunting industry.
We have a new liquid lime derived from calcium carbonate (with a soil surfactant) called 3 Cal.
The brown liquid product you may be referring is just that…. Snake oil. It is calcium chloride, the same solution that is sprayed on highways before a snow storm.
Feel free to contact us to discuss more.
Thanks.
Hey John, thank you for the info. I hope all of us spreading knowledge can help consumers like me see through the marketing fog produced by these companies. Time will vet these guys out, it always does. All the best to you.
@@theback40thanks
Mark….
Good luck this season! It’s almost here.
You too!
Hey my friend. Another great video. Thank you for sharing. I’m still battling Marestail here on my farm. I did hit it with glyphosate and 2-4-D a couple of weeks ago. But I don’t think I could get my fall plot planted in time before we get hit by frost. I may just throw some winter rye down and make plans for next year. Try and take care of the weeds (marestail) right away in the spring.
Excellent explanation on the lime (carbonate).
Thank you again for taking the time for your video. I always look forward for the next one.
Thank you. Ugh....Marestail. When I hit mine with that combo, it smoked it really well, and I haven't seen any this year. It does set you back 1-2 weeks for replanting though. Hopefully you still get a good enough stand. Good ole' rye grain is always a great plot saver if nothing works. All thte best to you.
Hey Mark, mystery weed is purselane and 2,4d will kill it. I fought that fight here in NY this year and that stuff is everywhere. A hot mix of glyphosate sometimes kills it from my experience but not always
Thanks Mark. Mystery solved, and greatly appreciate you sharing your erradication secret, will save me time. All the best to you.
Another very informative video.
Try Dimethylamine Salt of 2,4-D Acid on the Horse Nettle. I still like spot spraying with Industrial Strength Vinegar.
The weed with the red branches & succulent leaves, looks like Purslane which is edible (however the one with brown branches is poisonous).
Hey George, thank you. My buddy suggested spot spraying, too, but it is so prevalent in the plots I would basically be spraying 80% of them anyways. Ugh. And I'll leave the foraging to the deer, I'm color blind and wouldn't be able to tell red vs brown branches, a sure way to get sick! All the best to you.
Your spot on about the lime
Hey Daniel, thank you. All the best to you.
Certainly Ag Lime is the gold standard, however, that can be time consuming getting the lime cart from the Co-Op and applying. I can see times when liquid lime makes sense, example- I have a new plot, 5.1pH. Calls for 4300#’s/ac. When I plant it I’m going to apply 2000#’s/ac of pellet lime as I can’t get a cart back there and I’m going to spray liquid lime on there at planting to increase my chances for plot success this fall. The pellet lime won’t have time to breakdown in time for this fall. I’m then going to have to come back and reapply 2000#’s/ac of pellet lime next year, I may even need to add liquid lime next year.
So in this instance, I feel liquid lime is a good option for what I’m using it for. TBD on the long term use of it. Yes it’s more expensive but for those with limited equipment or time, liquid lime may be the answer. I’m going to try that 3Cal from Full Spectrum/Brad Harper/North Woods Whitetail.
Hey Ryan, AGREED! I failed to mentions the pro's and con's of each type, including the fast action of the liquid. I'll be doing another lime video soon to cover this and few other considerations as there have been quite a few follow up questions. All the best to you.
Good job of explaining things to people who don’t understand buddy
Thank you! Hope it helps, never know until you start getting feedback. All the best to you.
@@theback40 thanks buddy
Thanks for breaking that down for me. What’s your thoughts on pelletized lime and the amount of carbonate in it?
Pelletized is good, too. It's the same "stuff" as ag lime, just ground a little bit finer, with a coating added so you can run it through your spreader. A pound of pelletized does not have the same amount of carbonate as a pound of ag lime, and I don't have the exact amount handy right now, but I think it is in the 70-80% range. So you would take your ag lime recommendation and multiply by 1.25-ish to get the pelletized equivalent amount of carbonate. However, some would say that the pelletized lime will raise the pH faster because it is a smaller particle and thus will do it's "thing" faster, so you don't need as much. I'll save that debate for others. Bottom line is to get carbonate on the plots in whatever form works best for you and your equipment, and test again the next year to see if you need more, until you get it right. All the best to you.
@@theback40 Thanks for the in-depth response 👍🏻
Liquid lime has the benefit of immediately raising PH. Downside to pelletized and ag lime is the time it takes to start working.
Hey Adam, good point, something I should have mentioned in the video. All the best to you.
Good stuff, can you explain how peliltized lime has less calcium carbonate than powdered lime other than its a 40 pound bag vs. a 50 pound bag? Also, could you explain how pellitized lime is less expensive than powdered ag lime? I've found it to be the opposite as with pellitized you pay more for the conveience of not have to spread a powder. Thanks and keep these video's coming friend.
Hey Greg, yup, I'll add it to my list of upcoming videos, thanks for the idea. I'll have to check again, but I'm pretty sure you are correct that pelletized lime is more expensive than ag lime. All the best to you.
Nicely done!
Thanks Tom. I'm done with the Deertopia thread, half way through "Starting Over".....
@@theback40 hope you find the info helpful. Lots of chaff with the wheat at times.
Yes, very helpful. Smart guys that give each other some $h!t once in a while, count me in!
Need to spray gly mixed with 24d to wipe everything out and follow up with one or 2 more spraying before planting and you should be good to go, just start your first spray around may june after the weeds have exploded and then spray only dont mow first! Watch jeff Sturgis and you will be good far as that goes, that plot start can't make up for tons of lime, it's is made to get the plant started and then your ag lime or pellet lime you applied months before takes over, and when your ph is more spot on the weeds wont like that neutral soil and wont be as bad yr after yr
Hey Troy, are you using the same gly/2-4D mix for all 2-3 sprayings? Or just the first one, and then just gly on the next 1-2? All the best to you.
@@theback40 on first one then gly in next 2, can get by with one if weeds or under control, your field looks pretty good so probably just 2 sprays timed out right and you should set them back enough to get your seed established. I got mine set back pretty good right now with 2 heavy gly sprays cause I got a late start and didn't want residual but I really wish I would have got some 24d down to really stump it, but I did get to mow it off 2 times before so it wasn't to out of control just a few thick spots! I'm just waiting on rain now, I should have a decent rain in 2 days 🤞, I may even hit it one quick light coat just for insurance on planting day!
Got it, thanks. I am already submitting to the idea that next spring and early summer is going to be torching the plots to get the weeds under control so we can start over, and stay on top of them from now on. Hope you get your rain soon!
I think your new weed is purslane.
Thanks Chris. It reminds me of the Jade plants my mother used to grow in the house when I was a kid. All the best to you.
You are correct sir! Actually if you look it up it is a very great weed for survivalists! Has many uses!
Deer love purslane and also lambs quarter. Especially in a drought as purslane is full of water. Nursing does use these forbs to replenish the vitamins and minerals needed for milk production.
Lambs quarter grows tall, and both are extremely browse tolerant. They make a great spring and summer food source and will die back after frosts.
Unfortunately, while they grow good together, they will overtake and crowd out everything else out. However, if you leave them in controlled strips (between rows of undisturbed pasture grass), deer will hammer them all summer, and it keeps growing back. Soil disturbance is their friend.
I learned something today, thank you! Never would have thought they would browse on that stuff, I'll have to take a closer look next time I'm out there. It does seem like it is gaining traction and expanding, so I'll have to figure out if I want to keep some out there and control it somehow, or eliminate it all. All the best to you.
I use Plot Start 2.5 per acre and it helps on my sandy soil when I start a new plot. But.... I still apply every year granulated lime 1000 lb per acre. This combination works for me. I can see the difference in my clover field. Do not apply it to existing plants
Good to hear, I have been consdering the same thing. Adding spray fertilizers/starters to my food plot tool box, along with more herbicide knowledge is only going to improve things. All the best to you.
Look at plot Dr. It is calcium carbonate and liquid. I've had great success with it.
What do you recommend as a source of carbonate if you want to apply just that?
Hey George, to be clear, I am not an expert on this. However, for me, I will go for the tried and true Ag Lime, which is most cost effective and concentrated. If I don't feel like buying 50 pounds bags and spreading by hand, or if I don't have a local coop or farm supply store that can rent me a spreader buggy that I can have filled with ag lime and then pull to the property and pull around the plots with the tractor or truck, then I would go for pelletized lime in my spreader. The absolulte best way is to find someone that does all of it for you with a large spreader truck, but if you have small plots without large access roads, this isn't an option. All the best to you.
Hi, so what method do you currently use? Liquid, pelletized, or ag?
Ag mostly. I used pelletized a few times back when I had a spreader on the back of my tractor, but I sold that a few years ago when going no-till. But I haven't had to add any "lime" (carbonate) to lower pH for over 5 years now, which I think is a result of not using fertilizer anymore. All the best to you.
@@theback40thank you. I’ve tried all three. I stuck with the ag.
Great explanation on understanding lime.
Wish you had been my teacher in school, I would have probably done better.
Hey Daren, LOL! All the best to you.
Snake oil. It would take hundreds of gallons to make a significant change in the ph.
Hey Mark, I suppose it matters what someone's expectation is. Maybe a good product for just maintaining a plot with an annual spraying? I do know one thing, spreading good ole' lime has the right stuff in it and it works and is not very expensive. All the best to you
With regard to liquid lime, I’ve never had this explained to me or maybe I just haven’t been paying attention. Either way thanks.
Hey Robby, sure thing. All the best to you.
I prefer the fast acting lime one bag covers like 10000 sqft
Yup, I can see that, too. Many ways to do it, and sharing our process helps spread knowledge so people can weigh the pros/cons and pick what works best for their situation. All the best to you.
Dirtman outdoor Read your bag. It tells you how many pounds it takes to raise soil acidity and it’s surprising! If you are in the 5’s it’s almost doing nothing.
@@midwesternoutdoorsandnatur8272 Good point. If you are just getting a new plot going and it has low pH, nothing is going to be better than ag lime in the long run. I had plots in the 5's back in the late 1990''s that I added ag lime to, and haven't had to add any since. It just works, no question.
Purslane
Hey Kevin, thanks. All the best to you.