LARGE BORE VS MEDIUM BORE Trombone - 5 COMPARISION TESTS
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- Опубліковано 5 гру 2024
- In this video, I compare the large and the medium bore trombone using 5 comparison tests. This video may help if you are looking to purchase a large or medium bore trombone. It's also here for those who are curious as to what the difference in sound is between the two horn sizes. Feel free to leave your THOUGHTS or QUESTIONS down below in the COMMENTS. If you found this video useful, please LIKE it, SHARE it, and maybe even SUBSCRIBE to my channel! I post educational videos about trombone and music EVERY FRIDAY.
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1. FLEXIBILITY EXERCISE: 1:49
2. MIDDLE-RANGE LEGATO PASSAGE: 2:29
3. LOWER-RANGE LEGATO PASSAGE: 3:11
4. JAZZ BALLAD: 3:42
5. FREE IMPROVISATION - NOODLING: 5:28
Great comparison video! Definitely a big difference in sound, and I've gotta say I prefer the large bore (it suits your style too!). Something about it sounds more controlled, if that makes sense, especially when playing really quietly. I've played small (Olds Studio), medium (Yamaha), and large (Conn 88h), and have ended up using the large bore for classical and jazz alike (I do more jazz these days though).
Thanks for sharing, John! I have yet to try a medium bore Yamaha and large bore Conn, but hopefully soon to come. The large bore feeling and sound is definitely home to me, so I’m with you on that. The medium bore is great for providing the projection of the small horn as well as maintaining some of the big horn feel.
@@jazzbonept that's true! In any case, you're sounding great on both these horns! ☺️
Thank you for this comparison video! I like the large bore sound!
Of course! It’s so rich and resonant, isn’t it?
Yeah it’s amazing
I'm currently renting to own two different large bore tenor trombones with F attachment. I took delivery of a 2024 Yamaha YSL-448G Large Bore Tenor Trombone with F attachment in August. I then got a 2024 B.A.C San Francisco Trombone in October. There's definitely several key differences between both horns. The Large Bore seems to have a quicker response.
I owned a Shires medium bore set up that had a large shank leed pipe. I'm convinced it's the best compromise between the two. It's like the best of both worlds.
In general, with good headphones, I find that we hear that the sound of the bach 36 is narrower, a little less rich in harmonics, the sound is clearer. But would still be better for long playing or concert sessions, because less tiring than the bach 42, the more the timbre lends itself better to jazz.
Thanks for checking this out with some good headphones! I heard the same thing and agree with your thoughts on pros/cons of each horn🎶
I always felt that my sound tends towards being a bit “flat” in general, and that a large bore horn lacked any sparkle. My theory is that my very high palate causes a duller tone than some folks. Anyway, a medium bore horn seems to do the trick; brightening things up just enough. I think I sound on my .525 like you do on .547.
Thanks for sharing that story! It’s near that all have different reasons for why we choose the equipment we do. I hope the medium bore works out for you! Share a video of it sometime, I’d like to see how it turned out.
Excellent comparison video. It brought out many of the differences. The Large Bore is a broader sounding trombone. The medium bore has a more focused an articulate sound. I tend to like the medium bore sound a little better. Great video.
great player,top work
Peter great video.i could definatly hear the difference in sounds. Im more familiar with the medium bore sound for a trombone but i really like the large bore tone for ballads and slower jazz. For the more upbeat jazz, i think i prefer the medium bore tone. I know you spent time practicing with both bores before you recorded but to me, i could tell which was the bore you use more. You are definately more comfortable with the medium bore. You attacked the notes better and filled the horn with more air on the medium bore which makes sense. A
larger bore takes a little more air. But you did great on both. Great video!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I'd say this is generally the more common preference for trombone sounds. Warmer sounds for slower tunes and brighter for faster more punchy tunes. Any you are right regarding me being more comfortable with the medium bore! I'm still finding the balance between air and where notes slot, so that will take some years of course. Great ear, thanks again!
I agree
Great comparison video! I can really tell the difference in the sounds of these two horns, especially in the middle register. As someone who plays a large bore horn I definitely have a preference for the fuller, more round sound that one gets from that bore size, but I can see how someone would look for the medium bore sound as well.
Thanks for sharing this, Tyler! I love the more full large bore sound as well (I played it for 13 or 14 years). The medium bore is basically to find a happy middle ground between small and large bore for jazz playing.
Thank you very much. This helps me. I'm on my way to buy a new one (trombone) after a 15 year break. I never could test a trombone in the shop higher than F' - and you reach F''! And it looks and sounds so easy - MATE! Grrr! [yealous, feeling useless]
Thank you also for using the good mic and cutting the same clips together.
So I will decide for a 42er or a Conn 88h.
Glad that this helped you decide! The difference is subtle, but does exist. It definitely has taken years and years of daily practice to get to the point of playing a high F (and above), so don't be too jealous! I could have been doing other things with my time lol but then again, I love to practice and love playing music. Anyway, the links in the descriptions might help get you started if you're going the Bach 42 route and also include links to other trombone and recording equipment I used in the video. Good luck and I'd love t hear an update on what you got!
@@jazzbonept Now a week later I am keen on a Conn 8h. Did you ever play it ? (#largebore)
arminvoneigelstein I have not, but if you’re set on it and spend daily time on it, I’m sure it’ll suit your needs! I’d love to hear what it sounds like when you get it.
@@jazzbonept Inbetween it is arrived! I ordered a CONN 8h. It is a used one, made in the 80s. Because we have a C-19 caused lockdown here, I decided for an online shop in Hamburg (professional trombonist, deals only with used ones and vintage). This mate allows to test it for 2 weeks and admits refund policy.
But this device rocks! I wont return! [happy, feel like Xmas] - let me practice and I will send you a sample, if I find a suitable mic somewhere.
Here might be another topic for you: The trombone is brass, but silver plated.
Some buddies here think, therefore the sound is lighter. Only psychology?
Could be a reason to do another comparison.?. You seem to have access to many different instruments.
Some of my mates here also say, older instruments have higher quality. More steps made by hand. Again only psychology?
THANKS AGAIN for your support, which was essential for my decision.
@@arminvoneigelstein That's great, no problem! I hope it is truly what you were looking for. I'm not entirely sure how different finishes or plating affect the sound of the horn, although I know a little about yellow and rose brass. I would love to make a video about this, but would need horns to demonstrate the distinctiveness of each horn. That being said, I'd say if you like the sound you're producing, then who cares! I know I was always told that certain horns should be played with certain musical styles/genres, which is true to an extent (in terms of blending), but really it's all about preference and being able to play the horn as well as you can!
I really like the sound of that medium bore
Yes, the small-bore underdog is on the rise! I see that you also play trombone, do you also play on a medium bore??
Hi Peter. Ok I played 50 years ago in a school band. Never considered any of this at the time. Dad got me a student Selmer and I played it.
But the bone player I worked with here moved back to France, the only other guy I know of is 100km and a ferry ride away.
So I decided for the parts I want to record it’s time to get myself a new horn and rediscover my chops, after 50 years of jazz, classical, trad., salsa and funk harmonic/rhythmic experience on 6 string bass and other instruments in my past.
My players ear loves the large bore sound lovely and warm. It would be great in an acoustic setting or as a lead soloist fronting a ballade heavy big band.
But my engineers ear says for section work with saxes and trumpet the medium sounds like it would fit in my mixes better. And also through a PA with an inexperienced live mixer. So a very useful video.
@@daviddonald9738 Wow, what a story and great insight coming from an experienced player such as yourself! Thanks for sharing that. Between recording on different mics for the channel and getting ready to release my first album this summer (more info here: igg.me/at/justyesterday), I’m finding the product to be quite interesting. I’m especially glad you mentioned the studio engineer preferring the medium bore. It’s my main jazz axe these days and from what I understand, use to be the horn which did it all: jazz, classical, commercial, etc! Glad to have found this happy medium between small and large bore!
Hi again. Thanks for the kind reply.
I grew up in a recording studio and recorded my neighbor and got his teenaged band a gig when I was 9 back in 1965.
I started trombone 4th grade to 6th, but then went to a school for 3.6 years with no band, so it fell away.
I came back did sound and fell into blues harmonica as an easy fit for the soundman. Then one gig around ‘71 the bass player “fell over” and was too stoned to play. They handed me the bass. As a studio engineer playing electric bass was the perfect instrument for plugged in direct in the control room.
So I learned the philosophy of bass and kept with it. Now have a fretless 4 and custom made 28 feet Fodera 6.
But I also play upright bass for both a symphony and bluegrass or jazz, Dobro for bluegrass, mandolin for Celtic, jazz and bluegrass and pedal steel guitar and drums, and alto sax for a few years, flutes penny whistles, carillon etc.
But always wish I hadn’t traded the Selmer for a 12 string guitar in my Leo Kotke phase.
I think I will get an Overtone MTB-701. Within budget and sounds reasonable. ‘Outside straighter’ F trigger tubing and 6 1/2 mouthpiece.
If it goes well maybe a Yamaha or something more serious, but right now a nice sounding horn will do.
I appreciate you videos for the great info that’s hard to find here in Thailand even if I flew 400 km to Bangkok.
@@daviddonald9738 What a journey! With your musically diverse background, I’d love to hear some of your music sometime if you ever get a chance to share it here on UA-cam or elsewhere.
If you haven't already, checkout the original large bore vs SMALL BORE comparison video I did! ua-cam.com/video/Oj78q8iE940/v-deo.html
What size mouthpiece in large bore ?
5G! Check out the description for more specifics 👆👆
I'm a fan of the medium bore I own a 36B and a 79H and prefer the 79H and it's slightly smaller bore at .520 rather than the .525 of the 36B that said my Bach is of the 80's vintage and as such has long shed it's finish and I kind of feel it darkens the one of that horn plus I normally use a larger Mouthpiece with it than the 5G I use on the Conn.
I didn’t know about the 79H. I wonder if it may better suit my jazz needs with the slightly smaller bite, so I’ll have to play test on at some point. Also, I would like to try a larger mouthpiece on the 36 at some point as I hear good things about doing so. Thank you for sharing this information.
@@jazzbonept I might have gone a bit extrema with the larger mouthpiece on the Bach I use a 3 on it. As for the Conn If you can find one I would give it a try but they are kind of rare.
@@soundman447 whatever works for you. I appreciate the information on the Conn!
Interesting!! I can hear quite the same differences in my playin' and sound when I compare my mediumbore King 3b (13,39mm) with my Kühnl and Hoyer 139 F large bore (13,9mm)
Just like in your video ! It really makes a difference - I like both styles .... I think the medium bore has more projection and sounds more interesting. It feels like the sound goes through your body and I like that a lot
The large bore has more darkness and is more covering. Also beautiful ...
I would like to test a large bore horn with a sterling silver bell - maybe this brings together to best of both worlds ?
Yeah it's one thing to "hear" it while you play vs. listening back via a recording. It may be subtle to some folks ears, but it sounds like you can hear a clear difference in the timbre/tone quality.
I completely agree with your evaluation of the sound difference...both unique and distinct sounds, one not really better than the other, just different.
You should make a video with that sterling silver bell! Us equipment nerds love to hear the differences, especially since most of us can't get our hands on every type of trombone out there.
Thanks for checking this out and for your insight, Clemens.
Useful video, what model is the Large Tenor ?
Glad it helped. Bach 42T
@@jazzbonept it sure did! What tenor Trombone model would you suggest for professional military marching band ? I'm looking for one that has a rich and mellow sound rather than bright and stridant.
@@piggdsbest333 hmm I'm not big into equipment, but it depends on what size you want and what kind of player you are. Metal, mouthpiece, brand, etc., all affect the color and quality of the sound. I play on Bach because I've done so for 17-18 years and have gotten used to the sound, but if you are searching for a particular sound, going to trombone conferences is a great idea to try stuff out for free.
No question, the large bore has a more rich and deeper sound compared to the medium bore.
Thanks, Adam. I agree, glad you could hear that (and share that)
Bach 36b is my tb
Great horn, huh? Seems like it can do most jobs and has a great sound which projects.
The concept of the sound of a tenor trombone has changed so much. What I fail to understand is, that if we are supposed to play together with a trumpet section in an orchestra, why do we play equipment so big? There might be a perfectly good explanation, I just don't get it.
Hey Steffen, I personally don't know why we play on larger equipment, but I'm sure there are several orchestral brass musicians and historians who would know why. From my understanding, trumpeters also have larger equipment, so I would imagine that it works both ways in terms of 'matching' sound.
A couple of things I do know is that 1) we've come a long way since the sackbut, although the general concept is still in place. 2) Additionally, there's something to be said about the unique sound and resonance of every trombone, regardless of size or shape.
Trombones are not supposed to be trumpets. They play lower and have more of a base function in the sound than trumpets, so it makes sense that they are larger.
In orchestras a darker sound that blends with the other instruments rather than standing out is often preferred, both with trombones and trumpets. There are big differences in trumpets and their mouthpieces as well. Rotary trumpets sound mellower than piston ones for example and symphonic players tend to use larger bore mouthpieces I was told.
I genuinely believe the trombone has lost its popularity with the public since the small bore trombone went out of fashion with players. Gone are the days of Jack Teagarden, Tommy Dorsey, Glen Miller, Urbie Green, JJJohnson or even Arthur Pryor. The public preferred the brighter more exciting sound. It also means the instrument is not popular for children to learn now as its too big and cumbersome. Larger bore instruments are pushed by manufacturers as they make a lot more profit from them. IMHO. 😁 happy playing.
I can understand why you believe that. I would say small bore has actually gained popularity, but since there are more and more trombonists each year being exposed to both classical and jazz music, I think there are also more trombonists choosing to play larger bore instruments, which may be changing the ratio of small bore vs. larger bore (yet small bore is still increasing in terms of sheer numbers). As a larger horn player, I think I'm in a minority and also hoping to rid the trombone realm of the stigma which states that "for jazz, you must play small bore." I believe it's all good. I'll bet the original sackbut players would consider trombones of the early 20th century as way too big🎶