Delayed and diverted: Denver’s cry for help
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- Опубліковано 29 гру 2022
- For more than a year, Denver7 Investigates spoke with frustrated Denver firefighters and paramedics who were blowing the whistle on a concerning culture inside the paramedic division at Denver Health.
The reason behind this is money. Whoever renders the service, files the insurance claim, and receives the payment. Thank you so much for your investigation.
And in the shadow of money is the arrogance that accountability does not apply to them.
@@thebastardgift Keep in mind that DFD has been attempting to place DG paramedics in their houses for the last 15 to 17 years. DG paramedics are very good. Its a money, political and liability issue. Denver's city attorneys are weak and incompetent and the city pays out without a fight. That is the why DFD cant act, because of liability. DFD know this. There was a time when DG was very responsive until the City privatize the paramedic division and turned it into a money making machine. That city is a mess and has been a mess for the last 12 years. Research or talk to someone who has been exposed. Talk to retirees. They will provide you with accurate information. You get what you vote for. I sending this out before they delete it.
It's definitely not the Democrats
Reallllllyyy
@@GeorgeSukFuk Hummm!! You have a Dem Gov, and a Dem Mayor. They make the policies. I don't know what information you are receiving, but you are incorrect. I would like to hear your point of view and your justification for your statement. I am of the opinion that you are uneducated in this arena and just reciting mindless dribble as a defense mechanism like all those who can't justify their position because their rhetoric has no substance. I can tell you this, just say Players Club or Sugar Shack in front of the Mayor and see what happens. There are those of us out there who remember and some who have the documentation.
GREED. The money is going to the wrong people. Our ems deserves way better.
There aren't enough ambulances/buses because they don't pay worth a damn. I once looked into changing services, and the amount of schooling and continuing education credits you need for EMS work just to make $15/hr makes zero sense. There's no reason why ambulance workers should be making less money than other incident responders on scene, especially in the face of enormous medical bills and insurance payouts. It's a system built in corporate greed and not patient care, and the people who see the problems ultimately have no control over those problems. City of Denver needs to comprehensively review the entire EMS structure, not just what the contractor says they can do.
@@aaroncrewse5746 No way. In the Evergreen area it pays similar to a fast food worker.
@@aaroncrewse5746you say “refusing” to work, but then named positions that require specific training and qualifications. Maybe it’s the cost of education that’s the issue.
@@aaroncrewse5746 Its a wonder that thankless jobs which often end up causing lifelong mental and physical trauma don't appeal to the current generation. "Refusing to work" is also a massive overstatement of the current situation. Honestly your entire post reads like it was written by the director of ems somewhere trying to justify how shitty on average paramedics and emts are treated. I did my time in the trenches and the day of reckoning has finally come for EMS, I for one am not shocked in the least.
i made more as a f*cking hospital housekeeper. i was at $23 an hr by the time i left. blew my mind that my chill job i could usually complete in 4 hours and spend the last 4 doing nothing, paid more than someone who literally saves lives…
I am not American but I do know you are the riches country in the history of the world, so I am a little baffled with some of the problems you have with your services that other poorer countries don't have 🤔!
This is a stunning piece of reporting that speaks to employees needing to speak publicly in order to save patients' lives from Denver Health itself.
No, it is a stunning piece of blindness by people who created this problem and now "demand" answers. This is EXACTLY what happens when we expect government to solve the problems we face. It is reliance on government and the cronies of government that create these problems.
Those who create problems cannot be the solution.
Keep in mind that DFD has been attempting to place DG paramedics in their houses for the last 15 to 17 years. DG paramedics are very good. Its a money, political and liability issue. Denver's city attorneys are weak and incompetent and the city pays out without a fight. That is the why DFD cant act, because of liability. DFD know this. There was a time when DG was very responsive until the City privatize the paramedic division and turned it into a money making machine. That city is a mess and has been a mess for the last 12 years. Research or talk to someone who has been exposed. Talk to retirees. They will provide you with accurate information. You get what you vote for.
@@CB-vt3mx No, in the end it's all down to this, the mighty $$$ simply as that, doesn't matter who is runing it, this $$$ rules in the end with the greedy and intitled!
In most big cities ambulance services are run by the fire department. Just look at Los Angles, Chicago, New York. Maybe that’s what denver needs
The county runs fire and ambulance in Las Vegas, not some hospital. The paramedics decide where to take victims. They are much higher paid too,
Actually, over half the cities in America have EMS ran by private agency.
Or did you think AMR turned into the humongous behemoth they are by serving towns smaller than their name on a map?
I've whatched as firefighters waited for long amounts of time up and down my street. My neighbors have had to wait for help.
If things are actually changing, I think that's appropriate.
The CEO of Denver health, as infuriating as she is, is a great representation of how DH operates and what it's like to attempt to get help there smfh
This happened to me and my son… in the ambulance I was screaming WHY ARE WE GOING TO DH?!?! There are closer hospitals!… I’m embarrassed to be a Denver resident after seeing this…
NOW my phones health info states that my insurance is not accepted at Denver health ( which is true too) and I want to go to the CLOSEST hospital to where I am at.
Start taking your son to hospital yourself, or move out of Denver all together. That's all you can do for yourself and family.
If I.V'S doesn't save lives why is the first thing in any emergency room is start an I.V.
Precaution to ensure the patient is hydrated
Mainly to give medications if needed or draw blood
Ick. That retired CEO is a poor excuse for a human being. I hope KARMA catches up to her
Lots of bureaucrats smooth talking the cameras. I remember hearing about this diversion to Denver Health years ago.
Keep in mind that DFD has been attempting to place DG paramedics in their houses for the last 15 to 17 years. DG paramedics are very good. Its a money, political and liability issue. Denver's city attorneys are weak and incompetent and the city pays out without a fight. That is the why DFD cant act, because of liability. DFD know this. There was a time when DG was very responsive until the City privatize the paramedic division and turned it into a money making machine. That city is a mess and has been a mess for the last 12 years. Research or talk to someone who has been exposed. Talk to retirees. They will provide you with accurate information. You get what you vote for. Im sending this out before they delete it.
The only way this gets fixed is continued pressure on the mayors office. There needs to be more oversight on Denver Health. If this doesn’t get fixed, vote in people who will fix the systemic issues at Denver Heath. A start would be to put policies in place between the City and Denver Health, that will provide incentives to do the right thing. Also if you want real change, the Board of Directors are the ones who need to be called out. Nothing gets things done faster than putting a Board of Director on TV and asking questions.
They won't. Mayor has done worse then this and is still there so this won't get him fired either. There just isn't anyone better.
Adam, you see a problem run for the office to correct do not wait on others to do the job!
Also if more lawsuits are filed suing Denver Health by patients and their families as well as the insurance companies questioning these policies and taking a stand - such as denying payments and / or not renewing their contacts / credentialing with Denver Health. Insurance companies do have a lot of say in practicing medicine.
There's a decades-old political machine in Denver that has zero accountability for anything the city government does, and as Denver grows, the limits of scale and the city's slide into a social behavioral sink becomes even more pronounced. That's why things won't ever get fixed and will continue to operate in the same dysfunctional, impersonal manner.
Probably the last time any city official paid the price for failing to do their job properly was when McNichols didn't plow the roads after the Blizzard of '82, assuming that the weather would just melt it all off right away like it normally does, only to see the roads become moonscapes of packed ice for days after the underlayer froze.
I'm so glad I moved away from that craphole along time ago!
Privatizing ambulances long ago screwed us all.
And all these people pay for fire departments and schools and police and paramedics on their property taxes even schools and colleges look at your property tax and see how munch per year per household goes to these places besides state and government funding maybey those people need to be held accountable for the people that died because of Denver health
They also need to audit the hospital and the guy in charge of the paramedic department at the hospital I have a feeling that he's making a lot more money on this department then what's being reported
Hold them accountable file wrongful death law suits against the hospital and doctors and paramedic department at the hospital for telling the other paramedic drivers that they had to go to the furthest hospital whitch the little girl that was hurt most likely would be here today if they would of went to the closes hospital we need to fight for what's right even if time
Isn't on our side this hospital did not act in the best interest of the patient if it would have been one of their. Family you bet they would of went to the closes hospital and it wouldn't be a matter of money that they make off each patient arriving in their hospital they would of been on this in a flash this definitely need a good group of attorneys and needs to be reinvestigated and charges brought forth criminal and no slaps on the wrist this person in charge of the paramedics at hospital needs to be fired and have no chance at retirement pay and held criminally for the lives he iindangered by his decisions and if they died or became permanently disabled because of these descions he needs to be held responsible and charged criminal he would not do this to his own family so he's allowed to do this at this hospital who oversees this guy and takes a look at how bad he's doing his job that he's not doing
I've worked in EMS since 2006. I've worked for a major municipal fire department and two of the largest private ambulance companies in the country. I've seen private EMS and hospital-based EMS do some shady stuff, including Denver Health. It's disgusting what they've gotten away with. They are not, however, the only ones - AMR can sometimes be as bad, and they run a lot in Colorado. I'm disappointed that this seemed to focus entirely on EMS and questioned nothing about fire-based EMS. If you want a good example of how the two should work, the City of Austin is a great resource.
I called 911 about a drunk driver a week ago. I was put on a recording for 5 minutes so I hung up. 911 called back, but was only put back on hold. I never got through to talk to someone. I called 3 times. I can't imagine if I was hurt...
This is a deplorable, disgraceful representation of greed. Denver City Council and the Mayor need to get their corrupt behaviors under control.
Michael Hancock is more corrupt than you know...
Wow this deserves more views, very well done. Hope somebody gets charged for something, the negligence is criminal
Perhaps McVaney is personally liable for either a civil suit, criminal prosecution, or both?
The only way change is going to happen, is if a accident happens to one of the doctors or people on the city council. The higher ups have to experience the same things as the "regular" people.
It’s so true. I moved out of there due to the fact if I ever needed help, none would come for a good hour.
I believe it was over 20 years ago that counties in the greater Seattle area voted yes to additional taxes to pay for specific firehouse ambulance services named Medic One. Its firefighter-EMTs housed inside the firestations with other firefighters, and when there's a call, they automatically go along to be on scene for lifesaving. If the condition of the person is not life-threatening, then a private company's ambulance is called into dispatch for them to transport to hospital.
Medic One saves countless people having cardiac arrest or stroke in those critical initial minutes that make a difference between living well and death.
Its really unfortunate to see a major U.S. city without paramedics running to emergency calls from fire stations, which are normally the first emergency vehicle to arrive when 911 is called (exception for police emergency).
Not quite. King County Medic One is a third party municipal EMS service. The units marked Medic One are staffed by two king county paramedics who are not cross trained in fire suppression and are not members of seattle fire. They are the primary EMS agency in seattle with privates picking up BLS and non-emergent. In a lot of US cities and EMS systems the crews idle near a specific intersection rather than a fire station. And youll find a grab bag of volunteer, private for and not for profit, third party municipal and EMS run by fire that is both separate ala FDNY or as a combined service where they are cross trained as both firefighters and paramedics. As a whole EMS is broken in the United States. Between the laughably poor wages, long hours, ignored mental trauma, heavy physical toll and being chronically overworked with little downtime every shift its no wonder EMS across the board is starting to reap what they've sown. Unfortunately it is the citizens who are going to ultimately suffer. I spent 20 years wearing many different hats in EMS across 3 states, this problem is not unique to Denver.
You wanna follow the money? I bet you'd find a bureaucratic morass of insurance agencies, privatized entities, union policies all constructed to prevent the money from going to where it's most needed.
You want things to change, put up Dr. McVaney's address and pictures of his family
Stalk them...?
@@marciturner4980 Natural Justice
"changes" Been talked about when i was in H.S 2006 and looks like its getting worst
If I was either a paramedic or firefighter trained to use these life saving measures or knew there was a closer hospital with the appropriate care but told i can't, I would still do it despite scrutiny.
Got hit by a drunk driver who was able to get away because it took the police 45 minutes to get there. Was at 38th and Zuni intersection, three blocks from a firehouse and not one emergency worker showed up. I have epilepsy and was knocked unconscious from the hit. It took me three times to get the officer the correct registration for my car as I was so out of it and confused. They didn't even bother to ask me if I was ok or if I needed medical attention.
Wow. That was an awful experience for you! I sure hope this report produces improvements.
Damn
This is typical and has- been for over a decade from my experience. Try calling 911 after being beaten and pregnant and no one showed up. No one. This changed my view on 2A. The only one that can save you is yourself in a attack. Now if you are a vehicular victim, you are just screwed. Also, move from dense cities and crime ridden cities like Denver. Lived there 50 years and got the hell out. You should too.
@@tracyvigil6329 I left too.
Keep in mind, they don't pay paramedics much. About the same as fast food workers, so what do you expect?
Damn that’s a pretty popular spot. This is why we need to crack down on crime and homelessness in Denver. It’s a free for all right now
Send letters to Governor Polis and get his attention, as well as, Hickenlooper, and Bennett ‼️‼️🤨🤨🤨😡😡😡
Polis & Hickenlooper actually are very responsive to citizen concerns. Not that they can solve every problem, not they always have *the answer.
But you know what? Those two guys?
They try... they try.
Happy new year.
Peace on Earth.
This crap is happening in rural areas too.
Tryin to get down to 500,000 before climate change hits.
2,000 murders monthly per state.
Skinny little idaho? Last year alone? The Palouse res in idaho? 734 Native Americans mysteriously disappeared, some have been proven lost to trafficking.
The 4 corner area - in *Colorado? Also has quite a problem w high number of Natives trafficked and disappeared into Arizona.
Covid? And still they're trying to get our pop # down... not a good time to be alive... unless you're a member of a W M Supremacist group... like a Nazi...
I took an EMR Emergency Medical Responder class at MSU-Denver and the Red Cross book says only a Paramedic can administer IV. Are fire fighters trained as Paramedics or is it just the EMR class they take as undergrads?
EMTs can administer IVs after they’ve taken an IV class. Typically all firefighters have to be EMT certified before they can get hired by a fire department. All Denver firefighters are required to have their EMT Certification. If you look at a department like Aurora though, they require their firefighters to go to paramedic school after getting on the job. most calls the fire department responds to are medical calls which is why emergency medicine is a big part of a lot of fire departments.
Gotta love the dramatic deep narration.
Nicely packaged reporting but misses the key. Why? Who got paid? Who signed the original agreement?
I got cameras on my house and guns loaded, I know that the police response is worse in denver
@@deadwendy6870 how?
@@teamtheowner5157 I called the Denver police when I had a guy living in the complex I'm living at stole a package from me on CAMERA!! Guess what they never showed up!!
My wife works as an ER nurse and a dispatcher. Covid has strained all available services, beds and hospitals for years now. Non emergency patients flood the ERs.
Maybe you'd have a lot more paramedics to handle calls if they got paid more than $50k a year... They do WAY more work than Denver Fire, who makes easily double what DHMC Paramedics make, and Denver Fire does essentially nothing each year minus a few actual fires. Why wasn't this reported on?
I worked in a Level 1 Trauma ER for 20 years as an RN. We would get SLAMMED with trauma patients and go on ambulance diversion as we have no available staff to attend any more traumas until we can stabilize the patients we have currently and get them to ICU so we can take more trauma patients. It would be safer for the incoming trauma or medical patient to go to another hospital where they have open trauma bays or medical beds in their ER than to just sit in the hallway in our over filled trauma bays waiting for their turn next. It works both ways, other hospital ERs packed will divert ambulance calls to us if we have the available room. It's impossible for ERs to staff for 'what if' with extra staff waiting for maybe a busy shift.
Paramedics are equipped to treat medical patients in the field..such as a stroke or heart attack. Trauma is totally a different story, you've no idea what damage is going on internally.
I lost my left lung after I was the victim of an assault, DPD mistook me for the perp, and Denver Health called me drug-seeking and threw me out.
Story?
@@DiogenesWasRight90 I was busking on 16th Street. Some drunk homeless guy didn't like the song. I asked bystanders to call the police and start filming before I had to defend myself. Police arrived and found me pinning down my assailant. They handcuffed me and told him to run. I said I can't breathe. They said if you couldn't breathe you wouldn't be able to say so. They left me on the sidewalk for about an hour. They kept yelling at me to get up and stop faking. They laughed at me as a suffered an acute life-threatening injury. Eventually an ambulance took me to Denver health. They took an x-ray, refused to show it to me, and kicked me out. On my way out the door I buckled over in pain and the doctor stepped over me to leave the room. A later checkup with another doctor found that my lung had atrophied because it hadn't been treated. I now have a cavity the size of a grapefruit in my chest where most of my lung should be.
There's no bus service at the hospital, so I had to walk back to sixteenth street carrying my guitar case. Every time the bubble of air and blood in my chest shifted it felt like getting shot in the chest. I collapsed three or four times on the way back to my car. I was much closer to death than I realized at the time. I thought it was just a particularly painful rib fracture.
Would have opened for Metallica on a stadium tour that year if I had been healthy enough to fulfill my contract. Currently living in a U-Haul and managing a dispensary.
Why does one person have the power to decide who can do an IV for an entire city???
I may be a bit jaded, but I honestly didn't expect that good of an ending.
We need to crack down on crime and homelessness in Denver. Pay the front line workers more and put our foot down. Stop all this other bullshit and letting things slide. Destroyed the city
Thank the good Lord, we only live 2 to 3 minutes away from a fire station and they get to us just within under three minutes literally and I am very grateful for every single one of our Firefighters, EMTs, and our wonderful Sheriffs here in Douglas County, Castle Rock Police, El Paso County, as well as, Colorado Springs Officers. Between our emergency personnel, we are very fortunate it sounds like to me living below Denver, CO. ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️ My heart and prayers go out to the families in Denver, CO. I’m so sorry you are all not getting the medical help you truly need. It sounds like your upper chains of commands need to be removed and banned from ever working in the medical system in the state of CO. Whatever needs to be done, we need to get it done as citizens of this state, if we work together, we can get these commanders out of their positions‼️‼️🤨🤨
The guy that's in charge of paramedics at Denver health needs to be fired imeaditely without knowing so he can't just resign with pay he is a idiot and could careless it's a matter of money to him
Google these depts with the word corruption and see what you get.
I'm honestly surprised that their response times are seen as "unacceptable". Our county has over 60,000 people at 500 square miles and we might have 5 ambulances on a good day. I'm used to response times that are in the hours.
It appears that Denver Health EMS is grossly understaffed with field personnel, and ambulances.
A five-minute on scene time is actually very good.
Give this man a raise👏🏽
I'm having a hard time figuring out why DH is in charge of dictating DFD policies. That's un heard of in any other major city. Why would you not want trained Paramedics (Who are on scene) preforming life saving measures, until an ambulance/bus arrives. I'm born and raised in NYC no way this would happen...
Interesting!
Great reporting Denver 7
Keep in mind that DFD has been attempting to place DG paramedics in their houses for the last 15 to 17 years. DG paramedics are very good. Its a money, political and liability issue. Denver's city attorneys are weak and incompetent and the city pays out without a fight. That is the why DFD cant act, because of liability. DFD know this. There was a time when DG was very responsive until the City privatize the paramedic division and turned it into a money making machine. That city is a mess and has been a mess for the last 12 years. Research or talk to someone who has been exposed. Talk to retirees. They will provide you with accurate information. You get what you vote for. Im sending this out before they delete it.
Most of the country either has municipal medics or FD running EMS in major cities. What is so hard about this that Denver can't do it?
No you're wrong.
Just about every major city in the entire country has the fire department under a hospital.
Because of the way the medical field works, every single healthcare provider that is not a physician(or equivalent, NP, PA, DO), must operate under a physician.
This means every single paramedic and emt in NYC where you are, work under medical direction from a physician. That physician WILL work for a hospital like Denver Health(or in your case, somewhere like Mount Sinai). That physician controls all protocols of those under them.
This is every single city in the entire US. Denver is not special. The only thing special about Denver, is that the same agency for medical direction, also runs the EMS response. By contrast, in Colorado Springs to the south, the medical director will work at a hospital, and still be in full control of everything EMS, however the EMS responding agency(AMR) is not the same entity as the hospital. Those AMR(and Springs Firefighters) still report to that physician at that hospital though.
@@monarchco No, I'm not... I worked for Denver for 30 years.
@@Marcheenn I worked for Denver for 30 years. They don't the want liability. City Attorneys are weak when it comes to civil suits.
I got fired from DH in October of 2022, while on short term disability. Most employees on average have been with DH for 5 plus years and I can tell you right now everyone is complicit to the status quo, and they do not care about people. No one wants to make things better, they want to keep everything the same and stick to old outdated policies/procedures all for financial gain. Fire everyone from the top, down and get new people willingly to answer the tough questions and be leaders who actually cares about the health of Denver residents. That whole place is ran by privileged people that don't understand Denver complex socioeconomic systems and the intersectionalities of our city. Denver Health will kill you and have a smile on their faces while you are actively dying.
"We do this because this is always the way we have done this"
I moved away.
Hi, my mom is a nurse there and has been for well over 10 years. You making the assumption every person who works there is privileged is quite childish. I remember my mom working 10-12 hour shifts there just to put food in the table. You should think before you speak.
This is one of the main reasons I'm moving out of Denver. I hope anyone planning on moving here watches this
@@TheBandit7613 ummm can you elaborate....moved away......is that like left the state?
Investigate the Veterans Administration
🙏
Nice job!
Humanity needs to collectively agree that profiteering at the cost of human lives is a crime that can only be reciprocated with the justice of a death sentence, then radically enforce this new paradigm. If you cause death for the dollars, your life should absolutely be forfeit.
It's weird to me why firefighters can't administer treatment. You would think the first ambulance that arrives would be the one to take the patient.. that is not the case.. I had no idea ambulances were restricted on which hospital they could go to.. makes no sense...
How about the firefighters are enabled to provide Basic Life Support, but, the Denver firefighters cannot do a good job at that.
As a paramedic myself we are responsible in choosing the closest appropriate facility per national standards. Hospitals have different levels and specialties. So if I have a major trauma the closest level 1 trauma facility is where I would go. But if ol grandma stubbed her toe she's going to the closest hospital period. Of course this is over simplified there are a lot of factors you have to take in but as a rule of thumb it is a good idea not to bog down your level 1 traumas with patients that don't need it. But ultimately we are not restricted on where to take people but we are liable if we take them to a hospital that cannot provide definitive care without reason
@@sharpest117 You are right, what you say is very much dumbed down. In fact, there are no such "National Standards" as you suggest, other than for trauma, and the CDC/American College of Surgeons have placed so many contingencies in what they wrote, that at the end of the day, it's Home Rule that determines where patients go. Further, the CDC/ACS COT have addressed only trauma, there are no similar models for the multitude of other disease processes that EMS treat. For example, there are no "national standards" for hospital destination selection for ST Elevation MI, Large Vessel Occlusion Stroke, Bronchospasm refractory to field trearment, etc.
@@WarrenB-xp6ep there is a national standard. We are regulated at the most basic level by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, which sets the minimum standards that all states' EMS providers must meet. THEN it is regulated by the state. In every single EMS training book it clearly states to transport to the closest appropriate facility
@@sharpest117 Show me the national EMT standard and NHTSA Training Curriculum that you profess exists. Please provide details. When you can get beyond folklore, to fact, I'd be extremelty interested in seeing the facts. Thank you.
Okay do the kid who died what was going on ? Vitals ? was this a DOA ? Was CPR in progress did the kid have on a bike helmet? Why didn’t they call a helicopter was traffic heavy ?
is that POSTAL DUDE doing the naration?
Another thing that causes a lot of backups is hospitals going on divert cus the er is full. Basically ppl are stupid (you n me both) and get hurt a lot end end up in the er. Ppl get better and go up to the floor. Some people are one the floor for a long time. Sometimes there’s so many long term ppl the floor becomes full. Full floor means no one leaves the er. No beds in the er means ems is standing there with pt on a stretcher waiting for a room. Oh wait that clean room right there is reserved for one of the two ppl from a car wreck so toe pain guy will have to wait on the stretcher. Then another person gets hurt and every er is busy and ems is backed up just waiting. Can’t say much for hospital admin but for all the nurses and medics are doing the best they can but there’s just more then the system can handle. Because they won’t 1:hire more nurses 2: expand er’s 3: more PAM’s. Healthcare should be run at a cost cus your not supposed so profit off of ppl suffering.
I don’t get, and any EMS personnel will agree. How did the patient not have enough oxygen if she was most likely intubated, on oxygen with 02 Saturation monitoring, how was the cause of death inadequate 02?
Idk their protocols but they may not be able to RSI but regardless throw in a king or something
Without knowing anything about the call, I'd wager the issue was anoxia 2/2 hemorrhage/hypovolemic shock. Even with a secured airway, all the supplemental o2 in the world won't do anything for a patient who doesn't have enough blood to get that o2 where it needs to be.
I wouldn't expect a layperson to be able to give an accurate presentation of medical events, much less a grieving layperson.
@@chanjobe1 Valid points, I’d love to be able to see the actually medical report, I just can’t imagine a EMS crew in ANY situation would bypass a closer facility if the patient was presenting the primary impressions that you’ve stated.
Evil withers under the light.
Unfortunately Evil also owns the light switch and the power company.
Bet this isn't going on in Denver only.
Everything that I am hearing in this report is contrary from what I have been taught about emergency medical care. Why do I think that all of this is due to greed and the bottom line of billable dollars for Denver Health.
Someone has to actually PAY for all the indigent and criminal health care at d.g.
Who else? How else?
Come up ideas on how to make this budget work....
Insurance and administration should exist to facilitate the medical services.
Not dictate or limit the type or manner of care.
This is not only unacceptable, these people are guilty of causing direct harm.
It is inexcusable.
The executives belong in prison. It is a crime against the rest of us to allow them out in public. It is a GRIEVOUS offense to force us to breathe the same air.
An incomplete report on a subject of great importance.
Nooooooooones hands should feel like my hands are tie behind my back.
When saving a human or animal life…🌺🌺🌺🌺
As a nurse I find this disgusting
Get used to it.... this the utopia that Denver is striving for.
Now do the delay times in getting through to 911.
There are far too many questions that you would need answered to be able to make a determination on whether these were inappropriate decisions being made. Getting to a hospital in 30 minutes is pretty good. Far better than most places and well within the “golden hour”. While it’s horrible that this lady lost her daughter, the 12 minute difference is very unlikely to have resulted in a different outcome.
There are good reasons for not going to the closest hospital. Was the closer hospital on diversion because they were swamped with emergencies? Was there not an immediately available neurosurgeon it the closest hospital? We all have this idea that trauma care happens instantaneously, but it doesn’t work that way. Even the most effective and efficient care possible doesn’t happen instantaneously. Just because that’s where the camera cuts away on TV, and 1 minute later you see a patient whose had assessments/scans/surgery/lines placed/50 meds administered, it doesn’t reflect reality. It has taken HOURS for that care to be implemented. Chances are that she wouldn’t have survived the time it takes to implement those interventions. It takes more than 12 minutes to do pretty much anything even at the hospital.
It’s easy to point out imperfections within a system from individual viewpoints within that system. Achieving perfection in any system involving humans is not only NOT easy, it’s impossible. We have to get past the notion that anytime something bad happens there is someone at fault. And we have to find that someone to blame and hold them accountable. Bad things happen no matter how hard we try to do the right thing. It’s the world we live in. Take your anger out at that world. Not the people in it trying to help.
Anyone who is involved in the EMS system in the region has known that this is the MO for Denver Health for more than a decade in regards exclusively transporting to Denver Health when Level I care is needed. COVID has certainly complicated the answers to your questions in regards to diverts, but pre-COVID diverts in the region were almost nonexistent and almost exclusively for psych and not trauma. The main issue is that Denver Health does not even bother to check the status of nearby hospitals because they will go to Denver Health regardless of the status of the closer trauma center. I have personally heard of numerous transports bypassing trauma centers that were status green and had the capacity to handle multiple trauma alerts because that is how Denver Health does business. The egregious calls are along the Colfax Ave corridor where there is a competitor's Level I trauma center that is a 2 mile straight shot down the road, but crews will make a U-turn instead and take the 7 mile trip through Downtown Denver to Denver Health.
The issues surrounding Denver Health are so widely known that in 2015 when the City of Englewood was writing up the contract for Denver Fire to takeover emergency responses for their city, they went as far as putting in a specific clause in the agreement requiring that Denver Health transport to Swedish Medical Center, which is located within Englewood, when possible because otherwise it was known that Denver Health would take critical patients all the way to Denver Health. They also required that Denver Health station two ambulances in their city which cannot be pulled out of the city under any circumstances and refused to participate in rest of Denver Health's ambulance dispersal system. Englewood negotiated a great deal for their residents which is far superior to the services provided to Denver residents because they ensured both fast ambulance response times and timely care.
As for rapid patient care, there are numerous studies that have identified rapid transport as being a factor in patient survival. As you have pointed out, it takes time to implement interventions and getting to a hospital 12 minutes sooner means they can start preparing that many minutes sooner before the patient slips into traumatic arrest. Crews that follow modern practices rarely stay and play anymore because rapid transports have been identified as a key factor for positive patient outcomes, and as such this is written into the protocols that the region follows, which includes Denver Health. Medicine continues to evolve with time and the concept of the "golden hour" is half a century old point and joins other dated concepts from that era like giving a precordial thump as part of CPR.
30 to a hospital is good. 30 before you recieve any treatment from EMTs or firefighters is awful. Takes a few minutes in my city for them to show up. They can provide at least a base level of care to help better odds of survival or ensure that it's not a life threatening emergency
This crap my cousin husband is a firefighter he got suspended for giving a lady some life saving injection that he had done before but because the ambulance was still 2 minutes away but they only allowed to do this unless paramedic was basically over there shoulder his partner went told after he save a life thankfully it turned out good but thankfully he doesn't work for them anymore helped save a life got suspended for it redicoulous why have them train to do things like that but not allow them to help because ambulance is dragging there feet
I will say that on speaking into one issue, very narrowly, firefighters generally should not be able to start IVs. Fire apparatus can not transport. Denver seems to have a wider issue with balance coverage. But, I agree with the sentiment that FFs shouldn't start IVs unless requested by EMS. This is what happens when firefighters who are paramedics are on engines.
In most systems, once als measures are initiated, transport must happen.
The news brings up issues that are valid, but it makes more sense generally to disallow this. And yes, IVs can save lives. Diabetics who are critically low, trauma with hypovolemic shock, and several other instances prove that Ivs can save lives. But they also need treatment, transport, and er/surgery.
IVs alone don't save lives. Medications put into the IVs saves lives. IV needle alone only pokes into the skin and vain, and does nothing more. Same with the IV tubes with nothing in it. Air inside the tubes does absolutely nothing. Medication alone save lives. IVs are only a faster way to access medication into the body's blood stream ASAP. Get info and facts right before making public comments.
People need to be prosecuted for deliberate indifference manslaughter.
Unfortunately, I've lived in Denver fir far too long. For the majority of that time, when I've visited any urgent care or DH, I was oddly suspicious of the disregard for myself and others there. I long ago came to a conclusion that this was just another industry in Colorado, along with the massive penitentiary industry. If you're reading this, there are far better places to live. DO NOT MOVE HERE. The culture is not just for the inadequate employees of DH, it is the culture of the land. Colorado is a cesspool of drug and sex addicts. By far, the most disappointing city I've ever lived in. Can't wait to move. Summer 2023
Blood is on McVaneys hands and he should be criminally charged and in Prison! Governor Polis needs to intervene in this Immediately!!
Thanks for your reporting , love a proper investigation!
Corporatized health care in any form will never work. Greed kills.
Sounds like Denver Health is scamming the city.
Why is medical transport for the city of Denver dependant on a single hospital system? At the very least medical transport/ambulance operations should be entirely independant from the hospital system. Most major cities/counties either do medical transport through the fire department OR have an outside contractor (AMR, Medstar, etc) do the transport operations. Either way, the actual medical transport is not tied to a hospital system. This obviously is improper and does not put the patient's needs first. Most major fire department paramedics in the country can provide paramedic care (IV, medications, pain relief, etc) while waiting for an ambulance to arrive. Not allowing licensed paramedics provide paramedic level care hamstrings their ability to provide timely care. There is a reason they call it the "golden hour" in trauma care. The firefighters are virtually useless at a scene if they are not allowed to start providing medical care while waiting for an ambulance to arrive. This system is clearly broken and in my opinion, the city of Denver should take over medical transport operations within the fire department like most of the country's major cities.
City of Denver should look real close at South Metro Fire Rescue in the South of the Denver Metro area. Their Ambulances are run by the fire department and they provide timely and efficient patient care. Firefighters and paramedics work together and are part of the same team and it allows them to focus on the optimal patient care vs. who is allowed to put in IV's and what hospital they need to transport a patient to.
Denver Health is a JOKE! I visited a friend there, it is a total crap heap. I would not get healthcare here, and would definitely not want to be diverted here by ambulance. Glad that crazy CEO is gone. This absolutely sounds like it's all about the money.
AMEN!!!! Denver health is an abomination of a hospital!
Lawsuits need to start coming from the victims
I agree. Changes will come about, as a result of deaths that can be attributed to EMS/Fire/PD and city and county goverment, and litigation. The absence of both has enabled the "status quo" to be sustained. The answer is not in the Denver Fire Department, that's a bunch of hogwash; the firefighters agenda is being wrapped and labeled to hide the truth (a facade!), much like Donald Trump distracted American from his evils, by diverting their, and the media's attention.
What in the world would Ronald Reagan have said about this.
someones pocketing money
I'm sure money and the whole requirement to go to certain hospitals is a part of the problem. But the rest of the problem is the rampant abuse of the emergency ambulance system. People call 911 every day for things that no person possessing an ounce of common sense and decency would consider an emergency. This is a culture that has existed in big cities for decades and has made its way to every community in the country. Back pain for a week? Call an ambulance. Flu symptoms? Call an ambulance. Abnormal nursing home labs with a long ETA on the private transport service? Call an ambulance. Have an infection and prescribed antibiotics haven't worked in 12 hours? Call an ambulance. Is some of this miseducation? Sure. But is it mostly ignorance and entitlement? You bet it is. And at first it was a single-pronged issue. Ambulance abuse means not enough ambulances to handle the call load. Ambulances tied up on ultra-subacute cases, waiting with their stretchers loaded in the overcrowded EDs, unable to offload. But now its a two-pronged issue. Respectable EMS providers are done with the trash No one spends two years in paramedic school to carry you past all three working cars in your driveway because you think your tummy ache will be seen faster if you arrive by ambulance. So they're quitting. Paramedics and EMTs give up a lot to do a job most of them love. But many are done with giving up their dignity and their mental health to accommodate a decaying and entitled society. Fix the problem. Demand self-accountability among those who abuse the emergency ambulance service. Because let me tell you what. It WILL get worse unless something changes. And not just in Denver.
Parents and adults has all saying in which hospitals they choose to go to since they have to pay the hospital bills. Ambulance and Fire Truck drivers and their boss has no say in where patients has to go for emergency hospitals.
Good thing I don't live there.
All upper people making these common sense decisions, need to be fired!!! ASAP. Fixed the Root Cause!!
Sorry guys, fixing the system was cancelled unfortunately, please leave as we'll call you when fixing the system is back on the table goodbye and good luck.
The Medical Industrial Complex
So weird. Teach them extra life-saving duties. Pay them 5K a more a month plus potentially more to be certified. Administer Narcan and CPR . Not too much compared to what they already have to do. Just a thought! 🤷♂️
Come on Kevin, cut the crap, you obviously don't care. Time to look for a job that fits, perhaps an IRS agent.
What a corrupt doctor, look into where his bonuses are coming from. Firefighters are first response and first line of help. Why prevent them from saving lives?
Wokeness = Incompetence
Wow. This is horrible. The medical director of DH needs to be directly affected for any changes to be made. Preferably him in an emergency situation where firefighters can’t touch him with ALS.
You've fallen victim to emotion, conjecture, and sensationalism, mediated by the Denver firefighters (who have about no fires to fight, and low call volume, certainly not enough to justify their current staffing levels (this is a total play of self-serving firefighters to line their own pockets, and a Fire Department Command Staff who need to sustain their fiefdom)), and Denver7. Credible science does not support your conjecture (and yes, that science has evolved over the years). Does Denver Health EMS have a lot of structural and cultural changes to make, you bet you, but, no one is better suited to care for patients, then Denver Health EMS Paramedics, and a credible, supervising, Board Certified in EMS, Denver Health EMS Physician Medical Director (who insists on close medical (EMS Physician) oversight of Denver Health EMS. The Denver firefighters should stick to "rolling the hose," and being deployed where and when appropriate. Recognize that Colorado has an abysmal track record, of late; the move by the Colorado Legislature, to address paramedic care, as a result of the Elijah McClain case, is an absolute disgrace!; Colorado became the laughing stock of the nation, when their Legislators decided to determine Colorado-certified paramedics Scope of Practice.
You dedicated a good portion of the video to establishing that you made a difference which is great! What you failed to do is answer the most basic question which in my opinion is the supreme purpose of reporting, the question is why? Why was Denver health preventing EMTs and firefighters from performing potentially life-saving measures? Why were ambulance drivers prevented from transporting critical patciants to the nearest facility that could help them. Is this a private sector versus public sector fight? Who appoints the CEO of Denver health? Is that person held responsible? There are so many questions that your reporting did not even ask but you did answer the most important question to your corporation which is did your reporting make a difference? Well a CEO was fired and a new one was hired... The mayor said there was a problem that would be addressed. It seems to me that when you let the government handle health care, self-interests within the government prioritize over the interests of the public.
Trying to sound like sheriff John Burnell lol
Kinda light reporting, almost like a nod to the powerful, like didn't ask the tough questions of why this system was in place, what was the motivation, was it money, ego, indifference, or power tripping or what!
Other countries do this kind of investigative reporting so much better than is done the US!
Other than Denver Health EMS screwing up, and giving the public cause for concern and outrage (Denver Health you own it, don't hide from it, fix it!), the fire department play is repeated from one municipality to another, throughout the United States, following a Hymn Sheet that originates with the national firefighters union, the International Association of Firefighters.
Remember, since the introduction of Modern Day Building Code, the firefighters have approximately 80% fewer fires to fight, then before the introduction of Modern Day Building Code. So, what do the Fire Chief's do? Not lay off firefighters, and reduce the size of their taxpayer-supported fiefdoms, but look for unnecessary places to generate call volume/justify their existence. EMS is that play for the firefighters.
The public deception in Denver is from the International Association of Firefighters very Hymn Sheet, and a naive reporter, who calls himself an Investigative Reporter, at Denver7 has fallen for the IAFF's rhetoric. So much for credible "investigating."
How about that Denver firefighter who professes to have resigned from the Denver Fire Department, because he could not function as a paramedic; that man is not telling the truth, and sold his soul to the devil. Or what about the firefighter's rhetoric about the alleged lifesaving value of prehospital IV's? I haven't seen one of those in 40+ years in a high volume (higher than Denver), municipal EMS system. The public is being deceived by the Denver firefighters, and Denver7 is playing into the Denver firefighter's hand.
But, the public throws money in a fire boot on Labor Day, thinking that their money is going to the Muscular Dystrophy Association. Little do they know that their money is helping to provision kitchens in firehouses, to feed firefighters.
Keep in mind that DFD has been attempting to place DG paramedics in their houses for the last 15 to 17 years. DG paramedics are very good. Its a money, political and liability issue. Denver's city attorneys are weak and incompetent and the city pays out without a fight. That is the why DFD cant act, because of liability. DFD know this. There was a time when DG was very responsive until the City privatize the paramedic division and turned it into a money making machine. That city is a mess and has been a mess for the last 12 years. Research or talk to someone who has been exposed. Talk to retirees. They will provide you with accurate information. You get what you vote for.
Same fir the police coming to save you. They're not.
Greed and power control.
"I've given you the answers that I think are appropriate and accurate" 🤡🤡🤡
Admitting she doesn't know anything. Also proving she's hiding the real truth.
DH is nicknamed the "meat market". The biggest problem in Denver is Michael Hancock!
Always ask for a copy of the research decisions were based on.
After Trump, Covid, Bill Cosby and now Santos, I want proof!
you mean "the people of Denver aren't getting the services" that they're PAYING for via taxes. maybe if the victims were their child or parent it would be different of course
Follow the $$$$$$$$