Dude when people say Colleen Hoover romaticizes abuse they don't mean she does it in It Ends With Us. In fact, she only wrote IEWU to respond to the criticism about her abuse romantization. That's why IEWU showcases "realistic" abuse, and why it's an actually good portrayal. All her other books, though, DO romanticize abuse to a ridiculous point. Ugly Love, November 9, Slammed, Layla, all of them lmao...
Thank you! As someone who read some Colleen Hoover books (as well as others that romanticized abusive behavior) when I was a teenager, only to get into an abusive relationship a couple years later, I think the discourse about how her books romanticize abuse is SO IMPORTANT. Of course the book that explicitly portrays abuse does its best not to romanticize it, and that's great. But the issue is her multitude of books that contain "love interests" displaying abusive and even predatory behavior without any reflection on the fact that it's wrong. It makes me *horrified* that her books are blowing up with teenagers on Tiktok because this kind of stuff being normalized for me 100% contributed to how long it took me to recognize abuse when I was going through it.
ehh, I seen a lot of the romanticization of abuse criticism directed towards IEWU specifically, not just her other books. A lot of people online talk about how they don't think IEWU is good potrayal of abuse.
My main issue with it ends with us was the cringy writing. I didn't love the hallmark movie energy it was giving. It also concerns me how many people consider it a romance when it's definitely not. My 16 year old sister recommended it to me and I was surprised when she said she was caught off guard by the abuse because to me, Ryle is a walking red flag from his very first scene. He literally opens the book beating up a chair and yelling at Lily like he birthed her. There is nothing cute or sweet about their relationship. It goes from weird toxic behaviors to uncomfortable un-sexy sex scenes. They don't go on cute trips or dates or watch movies together.... They don't actually date and get to know eachother, it's just Ryle being weird and throwing tantrums that just get worse. When exactly did Lily fall in love with him? Then they try to explain his abusive behavior with his trauma. Lots of people are traumatized, what about that led to him being abusive? The characters are also incredibly one dimensional. Does Ryle actually have a personality? What kind of things does he like... do we even know? The more I think about it the less I understand all of the five star ratings... It's so lacking.
thank you. it's the lack of substance *IF NOTHING ELSE.* the flat characters, especially the flat love interest like... since when do we have a not-fleshed-out villain? normally we almost get too much villain in stories and not enough protagonist, but in this it's like it enlightens his personality solely thru his abuse and not thru any actual traits, likes/dislikes, hobbies, idefk. and i felt the same about: when did she even fall in love with him?! it does happen a lot in movies and books where we don't even know when the characters fell in love really, but this was more blurred than almost any other thing i've read/seen- it's just his obsession and then her 'love'. i dunno. even if you enjoy the lifetimey stuff or think the ending was good or w/e else, it's still just not-great-writing in terms of its dimensionality as you said. i think the two-star rating by booktubers like christy anne jones is much more valid lmfao (no i don't mean ppl can't like what they like or that ppl like jess are saying their ratings are totally objective, i know this is all person to person; obvi i'm speaking for myself based on our--yours&my-- shared opinions lol, and my writing degree nerdishness)
Thanks for mentioning they didn't do anything except having sex all the time, like where's the connection, the getting to know each other? Their relationship was ridiculous from the beginning.
Exactly! This is my issue with this book and why I think it DOES romanticize abuse. The red flags were all right there in front of her face from the very beginning and she missed them because what...he's hot? And so many people are completely ignoring the SA scene. Just because a guy wears you down to the point where your no becomes a yes, does NOT mean it's consensual. That is coercive, manipulative, and yes that is rape! There's nothing romantic, cute, or sexy about any of this. The truly scary thing to me is that abuse in our society is so normalized that people can't even recognize it for what it is when it's staring at them in the face.
Just understand that she writes for an specific audience. Most people just want a sappy story they know is unrealistic where they can insert themselves and vicariously feel loved and have a happy ending. Not defending Colleen's writing at all but you don't need to put this"genre" down
As someone who stayed in an abusive relationship for years, even knowing I “should” leave, thank you so much for the way you talked about this. I haven’t read it, and I’m only halfway through the video. But I had to say how much it means to hear people talking about the nuances. And how leaving isn’t as simple as it might seem from the outside. Thank you for this ❤
I think the criticism of abusive/toxic relationships comes from reading multiple of her books because it’s constant theme among all of them and a lot of times they stay with the abuser
@@rambelanimushaisano Like I said in my original comment I’m talking about her other books not it ends with us and I said nothing about it not being reality
Colleen Hoover isn't for me, but I've read It Ends with Us and Verity. I agree with you on It Ends With Us. It felt like a realistic portrayal of DV. I think some people though Ryle was glamorized, but I think he was written the way on purpose. However, there are red flags from teh beginning about that character and it's surprising how many readers don't pick up on it. I know other readers didn't like how the book is marketed as romance and DV is used as a plot twist. I agree with that criticism. The book is not a romance.
It ends with us does not deserve the hype it gets imo. It starts with us was so boring and just a cash grab. There was literally no point. The letters to Ellen were weird considering everything going on with her.
I love your videos but I really wish there was more research done on what people are actually criticizing. Very few people have criticized It Ends With Us; she actually wrote it AFTER a lot of the criticism about her books romanticizing abuse as basically a response to the criticism. And as a domestic abuse survivor - multiple books she wrote before this did romanticize abusive behavior. The tone of this video seems to be making people think that the CoHo criticism was unfair or invalid, and it's really not. I don't think she's a terrible person but I really don't want other teenagers to read her books and go through what I went through because they think abusive behavior is normal or even appealing. I'm glad she did better with It Ends With Us, but I don't think we should encourage more people to read her books without understanding the issues with them.
My ONLY issue with It Ends With Us was that I felt that there weren't appropriate TWs out there for potential readers. (And I get that often TWs are tricky because they could contain spoilers, etc.) I genuinely thought I was stepping into a cute, fun, love-triangle romance book, and was PROMPTLY shook when Ryle began his physical abuse of Lily. Granted, I still flew through this story, shed many tears by the end, and demanded to know why my husband was not Atlas while throwing this book across the room at 3am. But, as a victim of sexual/mental abuse, I just wish I had known what I was signing up for in advance, you know?
@@mehwishmanha9250 It's so frustrating to me, how against TWs she is. Like, sure, a lot of her books have twists that could classify as TWs. The main character's backstory in Ugly Love is a traumatic event in his life that would be triggering for a lot of people, and it's revealed in the last half of the book like some sort of plot twist. I understand that CoHo doesn't want her books spoiled, but it appears like she doesn't even want to find a middle ground. It doesn't seem like she even cares. If you're going to write about heavy topics, you should at least have some compassion for people who have been through that.
And this also opens a discussion of how books like CoHo's use trauma as a gimmicky plot twist and almost make light of it. Sure, All Your Perfects includes a character going through infertility, and infertility needs to be talked about more, but the way CoHo wrote about it makes me so uncomfy. It was so melodramatic and glamorized the main character's journey. Yet AYP is one of her lesser "problematic" books.
@@ht1988 UGH YES. Usually, good writing is when your characters have trauma, you don't use make the trauma their defining trait, you expand on their character using the trauma, *because your character is more than their trauma* ; nobody deserves to have the worst thing that ever happened to them be 'the only thing interesting about them', people are *more* than that
In my opinion, anyone who can't include TWs for sensitive topics in their book cause they're afraid it'll spoil readers is likely using those topics as a plot device to shock readers. Not only is this gross and incredibly irresponsible, it makes me think these topics will not be handled with the care they deserve and will potentially cause a lot more harm than good.
I guess for me it’s not that I think It end with us romanticizes abuse, it’s just that I think Colleen Hoover didn’t write it in such a way where everyone came to the same resolution. For instance, when I read the book, I went to see commentary on it and all these people were overly sympathizing with Ryle in an unhealthy way. Like I understand making a villain have nuanced traits, but she should still make it obvious to the reader he’s a villain. Like in My Dark Vanessa we were aware that Vanessa didn’t see herself as a victim and that she cared for her teacher, however her general feelings didn’t convince the readers that the teacher was worth sympathy. And this makes me believe the claim about CoHo being too vague. Edit: I never liked Ryle. He had so many red flags even before he started abusing lily, so I just didn’t relate to people talking about poor Ryle or I’m rooting for lily and Ryle.
I have never read this book but I saw this reel(BIT OF A SPOILER FOR PEOPLE) The fmc didn't let her child stay with him overnight till they could speak and I am shocked at how many people defended him like he won't hurt his child and I was like he can tho? And I feel that's very damaging to the teens and they can be in such relationships like this and think it's okay
Waiittt comparing CoHo’s books to Lifetime movies is so spot on!! Some of those movies were so good and others just weren’t. I feel like that’s exactly how I feel about her books. Very hit or miss
Being someone who also left an abusive husband after several times of forgiving him, I found the book quite accurate to the thoughts of an abuse victim and how hard it is to make the right decision to pack up and leave. You can’t automatically stop loving. I really appreciate the work Colleen Hoover has put in to give readers an idea of what it’s like, as there are people out there who I feel really don’t understand the situation you’re in when out of nowhere your partner is abusive. Like Lily didn’t understand her mother and never thought to be like her. I even forgot what it’s like myself and this was an emotional read for me. Colleen was clear about Ryle’s early signs of red flags that I’m sure had some readers suspicious at the very start and yet still fell inlove with him. Love is so blind. Every girl deserves an Atlas🙏🏻
Although I still don't plan on giving CoHo a dime after she pretty much enabled her son to harass young girls, I am glad that you enjoyed the book and highlight the important message that writing about something taboo doesn't automatically mean you support the taboo thing! It reminds me of this fanfic writer that I love who caught a lot of flack for writing a short story in which the child protagonist was assaulted, and people were accusing them of romanticizing it. I read it, myself. And yeah, it was gruesome, but in no way did I, a person who actually went through that, feel that they were romanticizing it. Too many readers these days, especially of the young Tumblr kind, have a hard time distinguishing between works that are essentially dark porn and works that explore taboo topics but tastefully.
I just can’t believe people loved the Lily/Atlas relationship enough for her to write a second book. The fact that he had sex with her at 16 when he was almost 19 was gross to me. He asks her how old she is and when she’s turning 16 so that he can make sure she’s legal which means that he was perving on her when she was 15 and he was an adult. I just can’t with that.
exactly my point is this. This is actually rlly gross tbh i mean okay i get the fact he cares abt lily but hes after all 18+ which means hes an adult and on top of that he literally prays on a teenage girl kinda creeps me out
I'm glad you enjoyed them. I haven't read any books by Hoover, although I've thought about it. I'm not shocked by the fact that you enjoyed them. The reason that someone enjoys a book doesn't have to make sense to anyone, but them and maybe not even then. I enjoyed that line from Lily about "not as emasculating as beating your wife". Truth hurts👏🏼
I really appreciate this review. Full disclosure, I’m a snob with an honours degree in English literature. The book I reread before this was Age of Innocence. It was lent to me by a friend who loved it and my instinct was to turn up my nose, but I enjoyed it. Finished in a day, it was easy to read and I think it made difficult topics easy to approach and provided some nuance re abusive relationships. I think the author’s note at the end also helped a lot. Is it the best, no, but does it deserve its steam punk flowers, yes. Totally hallmark vibes but what’s so wrong with that.
just seeing you happy reading this made me smile so much, and like yes! own your truth, exactly! dsakndnjka i'm so glad you're back into reading again too, enjoyyyy!!! and can't wait to see another review from you
These are totally the kind of books that can get me out of a reading slump… I’m not saying I’m going to start reading CoHo but I understand where you are coming from 😊
I was going to make a video about reading these two books, but I decided I didn't want to put myself through that, because if Colleen Hoover writes her romances the way she wrote the romantic scenes in Verity, then I was pretty certain I would hate it.
LOL because I've only read Verity and I thought the exact same thing. It was promising until we got to the ""romance"" and then I was like 'no actually I see where the hate is coming from' lmao
Did I watch all these spoilers? Yep! Because I’m probably not gonna read any CoHo ever. But I’m glad you enjoyed these and got your reading mojo back! Also Death of a Cheerleader was a good movie NGL. Not the tearing up at quotes…lawdddd
The way I press like on your videos as soon as I click on them because I just know I'm going to like it. I love your content! You are one of my favorites on UA-cam and I always look forward to your videos!
I love that we’re supporting being proud of books we know aren’t technically the best, we should read and love books that make us feel, but this book?? I literally screamed when I read that scene when Ryle was begging her for sex. I could not. I tried. So much strength in the story for sure, but the execution just made it hard for me to have the feels! Totally here for feeling no shame about books we enjoy though, sometimes a lot of the criticism I see directed towards romance especially feels loaded with misogynistic prejudice, and we KNOW that society thrives on belittling women for the things they enjoy, whether it be reading romance or wearing makeup. If a book gave you the butterflies, then it resonated with something in you. End of, no explanation needed.
I read It Ends With Us and was so conflicted with my opinions that I had to unhaul the book just to get the anxiety out of my eye sight. After watching your video, I want to reread and pick up the sequel!
A good book will make you feel. Colleen did that with this book. 💯 it’s the first book Ive liked in a long time. I read alot, but this one made me feel. I was on the whole rollercoaster with Lilly.
I realize this is late, but I just finished the book. I relate so well to your comment. I have been disappointed with so many of the books I’ve read lately. But this one moved me. It was refreshing to read characters experiencing real emotions even if they weren’t always pretty.
I’ve been super hesitant to check out anything CoHo after the rage reading of all of Ali Hazelwood 😂 but now I feel like I have to at least give these a shot. Love your takes lol ***adding after reading It Ends With Us*** Does CoHo need to be praised as a phenomenal writer, word-smith, or world builder, no. But the story, the journey, the ride we went on with Lily?! I love what she did. Also I’m biased because I love flower names. Thank you for getting me over my initial side eye at anything Book-tok hyped ❣️
I loved the book “it ends with us” love the plot love the Story and the Chemistry with the Characters. I love that it talks about the past time & the Present time with the Journal enteries I love the love relationship with Lily and Atlas. I loved Ryle form the Beginning but the end I Slowly hated him. Now for “it Starts with us” I feel like the plot could of been better there is some things I like & some I don’t. For the things that I liked is that you get to read Atlas & Lily’s perspective on how they got back together & they finally got a happy Ending with them getting married which Is so sweet. Now for the things I didn’t like was that the first book was written a little better then the second book, it didn’t gave me the plot I wanted & it was a bit too cheesy & mediocre. However Atlas was a Sweetheart, Both Characters deserve a happy ending.
The only thing I don’t like about “it ends with us” is the casting for the movie, I find it a bit Bizzare that they picked Blake lively to play which is very odd it just seems random bc I’ve never envisioned Blake as Lily. I feel the sameway for the rest of the cast. Also the hell was Blake wearing she looks like Sybil Trelawney💀 it awful I don’t recommend watching the movie.
I know this is late but I love your enthusiasm i reading It Ends with Us and I am really enjoying it. Is it the best book ever but I am enjoying and feeling sad at the hard parts. It’s a good summer read
I love Lily and Atlas I haven’t read the sequel but my favorite part of the books were the journal entries cause I loved their relationship. I do love a good Lifetime movie every now and then this book definetly doesn’t romanticize abuse maybe her other books do but not this one
Question, why do people say she is not the most well written author? I’ve read this numerous times and people of course have their criticisms of plot and characterization, but it’s not compelling evidence to me to say she’s a poor writer. It’s puzzling. I’m a teacher, and I read a shit ton of boring prose and poetry. To me, a good writer is someone that writes the book that makes you pick it up and read it. Lol now that may be smut 🤷🏾♀️ but least you’re reading. Anyways Lol on you standing ten toes down 😂 I think I’ll pick up it starts with us. Beautiful recommendation/ review video. Have a blessed day and keep reading!
I haven't read Colleen Hoover yet but I agree from your description that it doesn't sound like she was romanticizing abuse. Statistics say it takes a victim, on average, seven major incidents before they leave an abusive situation. Also, I love a good, angsty story, but I also truly enjoy the ones that are low angst. I enjoy seeing couples together and happy. I don't need to suffer the entire time. Call me boring if you must. 😂
I personally would still not read this book because how she handled the mental health aspects of it(yes I am a psychology major) I felt it was very bad and stereotypical but I am glad you felt the book was okay
I am rereading It Ends With Us because of your review. I really thought I would never read it again because it was so distressing. I am about to read It Starts with Us so on your recommendation I am almost finished with the reread and let me say I think it deserves a reread. The first read is so shocking that I don’t think I really appreciated it. It’s a wonderful book. The characters are all wonderful. I love it.
Thank you for your honesty. Your comparison of Coho books to lifetime movies is great. I love those OG lifetime movies. Imho I don't think there is a way to describe domestic abuse that would satisfy everyone opinion and or experience with domestic abuse.
That’s fair. But also when writing there ARE ways to properly frame the content your’re writing about that helps set readers up to understand your message. And from the “controversy” around coho, it seems to me that she either doesn’t care about putting in the effort to set up that framework, or she wants that ambiguity. And either way, imo, that’s not something I respect. And in the case of this type of content (abuse/dv) it’s actually quite irresponsible to leave it that way. Especially considering the target audience. Also considering the author’s stance on other things (like her refusal of tw despite her content?), it’s all just too questionable for me to enjoy.
I can agree on what you have said, just because she writes and talks about abuse in her books doesn't mean she likes it, she is writing it based on her experience and thats where people overlook it.
There's the issue that most of her books have something to do with incestual themes, abuse, all types of assault, stalking and probably even more than I missed now. I could understand if thats just the theme of her books, but I find it very strange that almost all of them have protagonists in these dangerous situations and they somehow think "Oh, this is fine" and end up falling for the dude. I've seen a review of varity and the protagonist literally helps the guy kill his wife while she's pretty much a vegetable and sees absolutely nothing wrong with it. The twist at the end literally sympathizes with varity despite her role as the supposed antagonist. And I know I missed it but the entire reason that they killed her was because the "manifesto" was a writing lesson and personal therepy session for herself and she effectively dies for nothing. Nothing is good about that, im telling you now
I keep hearing all the hype about Colleen Hoover and I've heard good and bad, but this review is the first one that really gives me a window into the experience. Excellent video.
I finally read Verity (coerced by a coworker) last week. I will say as far as the writing goes, it kept me interested in what would happen next, but there were a lot of inconsistencies and toward the end it was like we threw all rationality out the window. And that final twist . . . I will just say I don't believe it could've happened like that. I don't want to spoil it for anyone else, but I was very frustrated with the ending and what the author chose to do with these characters. I doubt I will read another by her. Also, the worst meet cute in all of literature!
It could be just me, but I never liked Ryle. Especially in the first few pages where he’s kicking the chair, that alone should’ve foreshadowed the relationship to come. Just cause he was taking his anger out on an inanimate object, doesn’t mean he won’t take it out on you. In fact, if I saw anyone doing that, I’m immediately leaving and I’m avoiding that person in the building, let alone let him touch on me within the next hour of meeting him. And then how he pushed and pushed and pushed for sex, like I get that she technically does like him back, but that’s still coercion. So, I immediately saw it coming when I was reading, but I do like the fact that she started to understand why her mom stayed with her abusive dad. That’s what made me keep reading was her realization of that.
I have never read a CoHo book, but my understanding is that she wrote IEWU as a response to the criticism she was getting because in IEWU the LI does all the things her other LIs do but now it's bad.
LOL, I had an idea you might like them, and no disclaimer should be needed! I quite like the Lifetime movie analogy - it's the sappy and virginal Hallmark ones that I despise 1000%! TBH, as much as I get irritated with all the hype over this author (Queen Kennedy Ryan is FAAAAAAR superior in every single way, as are many others that never get a look in), I also don't get the hate either. I've read and enjoyed a few of her books and never got the impression that she was romanticising anything. Also, why there are so many people expecting that every single book they read SHOULD be the best thing since sliced bread is so 🤬annoying. Mediocrity is what makes the world go round FFS 🤣🤣🤣. Anyway, as always TFS 😺
Thank God. Thanks for this video/review. I know for a fact now I will NOT be reading It Starts With Us. More Atlas and Lily? I would rather sleep in the abandoned house with just a towel in the winter in Maine. I'm all hoovered out. 👏🏽thank you!
I feel like these books wouldn’t have been scrutinized as much if she had had her heroines have this same realization of them being in abusive relationships and holding them accountable for what they do in her other books - it causes a bit of cognitive dissonance to know she can be so aware the abusive actions and still continue to write it just in other forms
I agree w you 100%. As a romance, which I don’t think this book is, is not enjoyable. This book is a drama and as a drama, is an enjoyable read. Great video 😌
your brave to do this when you said you aren't going near this.....the problem is these days, stalking, abuse, sex assaults, bullying, pedophillia, incest, rape, kidnap, murder, it is all being normalised, romanticized, fantasized, sexualised, and stuff like that/ It has become woven into everything. I am not sure when this became a thing, but we have taken a dark and scary turn. People wrote stories to help tell their stories, but now it has turned into something else.
I stopped reading that book halfway through, but know how it ends. I wasn't font of the style, but the themes were great and not romanticised abuse. However, I didn't like the fact that a teenage Lily met adult Atlas, and that she kept the child and allowed Ryle to see the child. I wanted there to be a discussion about abortion.
Because I trust you, I will go ahead and read these! I bought the first one when the hype was big, but never got around to it. I was hesitant to start it because the TikTok girlies showed me they can't be trusted (The Love Hypothesis, Love on the Brain, etc. - I discovered those were not for me!)
Feel those feelings. We all have some low brow art that touches us like nothing else. I really don't understand this whole "emotionally manipulated" idea anyways. Just cause you see the feelings coming doesn't mean you were manipulated into feeling. You feel it because it is emotional and you are human. The writer did there storytelling job if you empathize enough to feel the emotions. Now some of that dialogue is not great and I can understand some people finding that hard to get over but to each there own.
It starts with us is a good example of why some characters should remain as side characters. Atlas was interesting in the first one but he was only interesting because of his relationship with Lilly. Outside of that - meh. So when he became the main character, I found his story pretty boring and generic - I was so tempted to skip his chapters by the end of it. I also didn't think he was a good romantic lead. The most interesting part of that second book was watching Lilly navigate co parenting with Ryle.
I read It Ends with Us and rated it 5 stars. I don't think it romanticized abuse. If it did, l don't think Lily would have left Ryle in the end. I'm wondering if people are referring to Ugly Love when they say she romanticizes abuse. I don't remember much about that one, but it's been awhile since l've read it.
I read It Ends With Us before I got into TikTok or booktube and I loved it. I felt the story on a personal level and I don’t understand the hate for it. I didn’t enjoy It Starts With Us. It felt very mushy and cash grabby.
This is Roger and Dodger all over again for you lol. Stand in your truth. The only CoHo book that sounds interesting to me is Verity. But it's not a priority.
You know, i am torn. Speaking as someone who is not a fan, I genuinely feel there is very valid criticism to be had about Coleen Hoover and the discussion about romanticizing abuse is an important one to delve into. On the other hand, in the back of my mind I can’t help thinking that she- of all the authors with themes worth criticizing- is specifically being singled out and criticized to this extent because she is a successful female author creating content enjoyed and discussed by young women on the internet. There is the moral discussion of protecting young women and making sure they don’t grow up believing abusive behavior is ok. But are we sure this isn’t also, to some extent, an unconscious excuse to invalidate a woman’s career and downplay the validity of women’s interests? Women and minorities are typically targeted with far more extreme vitriol on the internet- as though people are just waiting for any excuse to attack. If I know anything, it’s that society loves to conceal discrimination behind “concern for the youths.” Again, there are valid things to criticize about the content of many of her books. But I also get the impression that the situation has gotten big enough that people who have never read any of her books are jumping on the hate bandwagon and charging ahead because it’s fun to make fun of women’s fiction. Similarly, people are shaming fans of her books for liking what they like and telling them to have better taste. I just can’t help wonder if the discussion of abusive behavior in romance fiction could be had in a more constructive environment that doesn’t single out and make an example of just one author of many who does this. I think we may be missing the forest for the trees here because it’s easier to get attention for trashing one person than addressing systemic concerns. Finding excuses to degrade women is a popular pastime on social media, is what I’m saying. This is what leaves me torn.
Though I’m not a CoHo girlie, watching you swoon over It Starts With Us made me so giddy. I know you’ve been down about the move and everything and sometimes it nice to just kick your feet and giggle over a romance lol
You are freaking hilarious!!! I had the same thoughts as you. I actually liked both books a lot. I have only read one other book by coho and these were definitely the best.
I read both and loved them, 5 stars. I know Colleen's books can have toxic stuff but she did well with these two books. They have a very important message. Some people were complaining that Lily didn't take her daughter away from Ryle, but that's not how it works it's extremely difficult for a single mother to get sole custody and prevent a father and more so a doctor who is well respected, like that's not reality. I think she showed how it's usually a co-parenting situation after divorce from an abuser. She again had people to back her up when Ryle started becoming abusive, unfortunately not all women have that. Anyway, I feel the same, I won't say sorry for liking Colleen's books. Some people on Twitter are like "If you read Colleen Hoover unfollow me/we can't be friends" etc, ok ig lol
I tried reading one of the books you talk of in this video…I couldn’t 😂 it’s like Jenkins Reid, I don’t get the hype. I didn’t get far enough to read about the abuse but I was rolling my eyes so much I thought, if I’m cringing this much, I should stop lol. But I hear “romanticizing abuse” it makes me think she can’t write a book without domestic abuse or none of the romance progresses without abuse. Edit: even just listening to you read passages is making me cringe 😂😂😂
i recently read Confess by CoHo and it stunned me how compelling the story could be.... if only it wasn't buried under a lot of extraneous BS. while i don't think the assault in that book is romanticized, either, it does feel unnecessary and more like the author was making sure i could never root for that guy (as if he was ever a real love interest). rather than a natural, tragic part of the story. if Confess had been exclusively about the female main character and her admittedly complex and nuanced situation (and like 150 pages shorter), i think it would have been one of the best books ive ever read.
I’ve read both and I loved them! I also loved Verity. I haven’t read anything else by CoHo. I really appreciate this review because I didn’t get the “romanticizing DV” vibe from these.
I read 'It Ends With Us' and 'It Starts With Us', and I definitely don't think the book romanticizes abuse. I think the approach was a very realistic one because many women struggle to leave their abusers. It's not always as easy as it may seem to leave an abusive lover. I thought the storyline was great, but there were too many cringe moments. The whole part when she's writing in her diary to Ellen Degeneres was just annoying to me. What teenager is obsessed with Ellen??? Her relationship with Atlas was truly beautiful, and I enjoyed every scene with the two of them. However, she didn't have to write a sequel. The sequel just felt forced and after a while of reading I got bored. I like that we learn more about each character, but it felt like she shouldn't have written the sequel.
If you like Atlas I just have a feeling you would like Graham in All Your Perfects! That book is so emotional and I may reread it soon. Tbh sometimes we just need strong emotions and a really simple writing style. Not every book needs to be dense
I liked Atlas right away and yes he is very similar to Graham. I wish Atlas was given more time. The book was ok I don’t have beef with CoHo but I’ve only read this one and All Your Perfects. I do have 1 or 2 students a year that are CoHo Stans. I’m just happy that they talk about it.
Dude when people say Colleen Hoover romaticizes abuse they don't mean she does it in It Ends With Us. In fact, she only wrote IEWU to respond to the criticism about her abuse romantization. That's why IEWU showcases "realistic" abuse, and why it's an actually good portrayal. All her other books, though, DO romanticize abuse to a ridiculous point. Ugly Love, November 9, Slammed, Layla, all of them lmao...
Thank you! As someone who read some Colleen Hoover books (as well as others that romanticized abusive behavior) when I was a teenager, only to get into an abusive relationship a couple years later, I think the discourse about how her books romanticize abuse is SO IMPORTANT.
Of course the book that explicitly portrays abuse does its best not to romanticize it, and that's great. But the issue is her multitude of books that contain "love interests" displaying abusive and even predatory behavior without any reflection on the fact that it's wrong. It makes me *horrified* that her books are blowing up with teenagers on Tiktok because this kind of stuff being normalized for me 100% contributed to how long it took me to recognize abuse when I was going through it.
Hopeless kind of does as well.
Layla? 😳🤔 I don’t remember that being an abusive relationship.
ehh, I seen a lot of the romanticization of abuse criticism directed towards IEWU specifically, not just her other books. A lot of people online talk about how they don't think IEWU is good potrayal of abuse.
this!!!
My main issue with it ends with us was the cringy writing. I didn't love the hallmark movie energy it was giving.
It also concerns me how many people consider it a romance when it's definitely not. My 16 year old sister recommended it to me and I was surprised when she said she was caught off guard by the abuse because to me, Ryle is a walking red flag from his very first scene. He literally opens the book beating up a chair and yelling at Lily like he birthed her. There is nothing cute or sweet about their relationship. It goes from weird toxic behaviors to uncomfortable un-sexy sex scenes. They don't go on cute trips or dates or watch movies together.... They don't actually date and get to know eachother, it's just Ryle being weird and throwing tantrums that just get worse. When exactly did Lily fall in love with him? Then they try to explain his abusive behavior with his trauma. Lots of people are traumatized, what about that led to him being abusive? The characters are also incredibly one dimensional. Does Ryle actually have a personality? What kind of things does he like... do we even know? The more I think about it the less I understand all of the five star ratings... It's so lacking.
thank you. it's the lack of substance *IF NOTHING ELSE.* the flat characters, especially the flat love interest like... since when do we have a not-fleshed-out villain? normally we almost get too much villain in stories and not enough protagonist, but in this it's like it enlightens his personality solely thru his abuse and not thru any actual traits, likes/dislikes, hobbies, idefk. and i felt the same about: when did she even fall in love with him?! it does happen a lot in movies and books where we don't even know when the characters fell in love really, but this was more blurred than almost any other thing i've read/seen- it's just his obsession and then her 'love'. i dunno. even if you enjoy the lifetimey stuff or think the ending was good or w/e else, it's still just not-great-writing in terms of its dimensionality as you said. i think the two-star rating by booktubers like christy anne jones is much more valid lmfao
(no i don't mean ppl can't like what they like or that ppl like jess are saying their ratings are totally objective, i know this is all person to person; obvi i'm speaking for myself based on our--yours&my-- shared opinions lol, and my writing degree nerdishness)
Thanks for mentioning they didn't do anything except having sex all the time, like where's the connection, the getting to know each other? Their relationship was ridiculous from the beginning.
Plus, we only really see the sex in this abusive relationship and not in any healthier relationships Lily has. That matters.
ur so right
Exactly! This is my issue with this book and why I think it DOES romanticize abuse. The red flags were all right there in front of her face from the very beginning and she missed them because what...he's hot? And so many people are completely ignoring the SA scene. Just because a guy wears you down to the point where your no becomes a yes, does NOT mean it's consensual. That is coercive, manipulative, and yes that is rape! There's nothing romantic, cute, or sexy about any of this. The truly scary thing to me is that abuse in our society is so normalized that people can't even recognize it for what it is when it's staring at them in the face.
Oh the things you do for us...Coho ain't getting my pennies 😂
Mine neither. I tried to listen to Verity (for free) and I was mind-blown by the bigotry and stupidity. Easiest DNF of the year.
The only reason I got through verity is because of how short and shallow it was. If it was any longer, I would had DNF.
I, personally, like Colleen Hoover's books, because they teach me what not to do as an aspiring author.
😂😂😂😂 💯
Got me on the first half
Just understand that she writes for an specific audience. Most people just want a sappy story they know is unrealistic where they can insert themselves and vicariously feel loved and have a happy ending. Not defending Colleen's writing at all but you don't need to put this"genre" down
As someone who stayed in an abusive relationship for years, even knowing I “should” leave, thank you so much for the way you talked about this. I haven’t read it, and I’m only halfway through the video. But I had to say how much it means to hear people talking about the nuances. And how leaving isn’t as simple as it might seem from the outside. Thank you for this ❤
I think the criticism of abusive/toxic relationships comes from reading multiple of her books because it’s constant theme among all of them and a lot of times they stay with the abuser
Lol well now I know to not read anymore
People in the real world stay with the abuser so it’s a reality.
@@rambelanimushaisano Like I said in my original comment I’m talking about her other books not it ends with us and I said nothing about it not being reality
@rambelanimushaisano I guess it's not just that, she portrays it like it's a good thing.
Colleen Hoover isn't for me, but I've read It Ends with Us and Verity. I agree with you on It Ends With Us. It felt like a realistic portrayal of DV. I think some people though Ryle was glamorized, but I think he was written the way on purpose. However, there are red flags from teh beginning about that character and it's surprising how many readers don't pick up on it. I know other readers didn't like how the book is marketed as romance and DV is used as a plot twist. I agree with that criticism. The book is not a romance.
It ends with us does not deserve the hype it gets imo. It starts with us was so boring and just a cash grab. There was literally no point. The letters to Ellen were weird considering everything going on with her.
I love your videos but I really wish there was more research done on what people are actually criticizing. Very few people have criticized It Ends With Us; she actually wrote it AFTER a lot of the criticism about her books romanticizing abuse as basically a response to the criticism. And as a domestic abuse survivor - multiple books she wrote before this did romanticize abusive behavior.
The tone of this video seems to be making people think that the CoHo criticism was unfair or invalid, and it's really not. I don't think she's a terrible person but I really don't want other teenagers to read her books and go through what I went through because they think abusive behavior is normal or even appealing. I'm glad she did better with It Ends With Us, but I don't think we should encourage more people to read her books without understanding the issues with them.
My ONLY issue with It Ends With Us was that I felt that there weren't appropriate TWs out there for potential readers. (And I get that often TWs are tricky because they could contain spoilers, etc.) I genuinely thought I was stepping into a cute, fun, love-triangle romance book, and was PROMPTLY shook when Ryle began his physical abuse of Lily. Granted, I still flew through this story, shed many tears by the end, and demanded to know why my husband was not Atlas while throwing this book across the room at 3am. But, as a victim of sexual/mental abuse, I just wish I had known what I was signing up for in advance, you know?
Wow, funny you say that(No not at all), bc Colleen Hoover herself is *explicitly against TWs in books*
@@mehwishmanha9250 It's so frustrating to me, how against TWs she is. Like, sure, a lot of her books have twists that could classify as TWs. The main character's backstory in Ugly Love is a traumatic event in his life that would be triggering for a lot of people, and it's revealed in the last half of the book like some sort of plot twist. I understand that CoHo doesn't want her books spoiled, but it appears like she doesn't even want to find a middle ground. It doesn't seem like she even cares. If you're going to write about heavy topics, you should at least have some compassion for people who have been through that.
And this also opens a discussion of how books like CoHo's use trauma as a gimmicky plot twist and almost make light of it. Sure, All Your Perfects includes a character going through infertility, and infertility needs to be talked about more, but the way CoHo wrote about it makes me so uncomfy. It was so melodramatic and glamorized the main character's journey. Yet AYP is one of her lesser "problematic" books.
@@ht1988 UGH YES. Usually, good writing is when your characters have trauma, you don't use make the trauma their defining trait, you expand on their character using the trauma, *because your character is more than their trauma* ; nobody deserves to have the worst thing that ever happened to them be 'the only thing interesting about them', people are *more* than that
In my opinion, anyone who can't include TWs for sensitive topics in their book cause they're afraid it'll spoil readers is likely using those topics as a plot device to shock readers. Not only is this gross and incredibly irresponsible, it makes me think these topics will not be handled with the care they deserve and will potentially cause a lot more harm than good.
personally, i think this is the only coho book that DOESNT romanticize abuse (besides maybe verity)
I guess for me it’s not that I think It end with us romanticizes abuse, it’s just that I think Colleen Hoover didn’t write it in such a way where everyone came to the same resolution.
For instance, when I read the book, I went to see commentary on it and all these people were overly sympathizing with Ryle in an unhealthy way. Like I understand making a villain have nuanced traits, but she should still make it obvious to the reader he’s a villain. Like in My Dark Vanessa we were aware that Vanessa didn’t see herself as a victim and that she cared for her teacher, however her general feelings didn’t convince the readers that the teacher was worth sympathy. And this makes me believe the claim about CoHo being too vague.
Edit: I never liked Ryle. He had so many red flags even before he started abusing lily, so I just didn’t relate to people talking about poor Ryle or I’m rooting for lily and Ryle.
I have never read this book but I saw this reel(BIT OF A SPOILER FOR PEOPLE)
The fmc didn't let her child stay with him overnight till they could speak and I am shocked at how many people defended him like he won't hurt his child and I was like he can tho? And I feel that's very damaging to the teens and they can be in such relationships like this and think it's okay
the hype around this author's books has convinced me booktok should never be trusted
Waiittt comparing CoHo’s books to Lifetime movies is so spot on!! Some of those movies were so good and others just weren’t. I feel like that’s exactly how I feel about her books. Very hit or miss
Being someone who also left an abusive husband after several times of forgiving him, I found the book quite accurate to the thoughts of an abuse victim and how hard it is to make the right decision to pack up and leave. You can’t automatically stop loving. I really appreciate the work Colleen Hoover has put in to give readers an idea of what it’s like, as there are people out there who I feel really don’t understand the situation you’re in when out of nowhere your partner is abusive. Like Lily didn’t understand her mother and never thought to be like her. I even forgot what it’s like myself and this was an emotional read for me. Colleen was clear about Ryle’s early signs of red flags that I’m sure had some readers suspicious at the very start and yet still fell inlove with him. Love is so blind. Every girl deserves an Atlas🙏🏻
The Face on the Milk Carton was originally a book by Caroline B. Cooney!! It also has a sequel called Whatever happened to Janie.
those were my FAVORITE BOOKS in elementary school. i was fucking obsessed
That whole series is soooo good
I read the first two books and loved them
Although I still don't plan on giving CoHo a dime after she pretty much enabled her son to harass young girls, I am glad that you enjoyed the book and highlight the important message that writing about something taboo doesn't automatically mean you support the taboo thing! It reminds me of this fanfic writer that I love who caught a lot of flack for writing a short story in which the child protagonist was assaulted, and people were accusing them of romanticizing it. I read it, myself. And yeah, it was gruesome, but in no way did I, a person who actually went through that, feel that they were romanticizing it.
Too many readers these days, especially of the young Tumblr kind, have a hard time distinguishing between works that are essentially dark porn and works that explore taboo topics but tastefully.
I just can’t believe people loved the Lily/Atlas relationship enough for her to write a second book. The fact that he had sex with her at 16 when he was almost 19 was gross to me. He asks her how old she is and when she’s turning 16 so that he can make sure she’s legal which means that he was perving on her when she was 15 and he was an adult. I just can’t with that.
I couldn’t get myself to like Atlas
exactly my point is this. This is actually rlly gross tbh i mean okay i get the fact he cares abt lily but hes after all 18+ which means hes an adult and on top of that he literally prays on a teenage girl kinda creeps me out
@@ZandileX Me neither. You feel sympathy for him, but came off as somewhat of a "Nice guy" in it starts with us.
Exactly!
I love your videos and I just wanted to say thank you for adding captions to your videos!! I always appreciate it :)
I'm glad you enjoyed them. I haven't read any books by Hoover, although I've thought about it. I'm not shocked by the fact that you enjoyed them. The reason that someone enjoys a book doesn't have to make sense to anyone, but them and maybe not even then.
I enjoyed that line from Lily about "not as emasculating as beating your wife".
Truth hurts👏🏼
Her books are like watching Lifetime movies. They're quick easy reads. Its ok to like them.
I really appreciate this review. Full disclosure, I’m a snob with an honours degree in English literature. The book I reread before this was Age of Innocence. It was lent to me by a friend who loved it and my instinct was to turn up my nose, but I enjoyed it. Finished in a day, it was easy to read and I think it made difficult topics easy to approach and provided some nuance re abusive relationships. I think the author’s note at the end also helped a lot. Is it the best, no, but does it deserve its steam punk flowers, yes. Totally hallmark vibes but what’s so wrong with that.
just seeing you happy reading this made me smile so much, and like yes! own your truth, exactly! dsakndnjka i'm so glad you're back into reading again too, enjoyyyy!!! and can't wait to see another review from you
These are totally the kind of books that can get me out of a reading slump… I’m not saying I’m going to start reading CoHo but I understand where you are coming from 😊
I agree. Page turners of mindless entertainment definitely are the key to getting out of a slump.
Yes !!
I was going to make a video about reading these two books, but I decided I didn't want to put myself through that, because if Colleen Hoover writes her romances the way she wrote the romantic scenes in Verity, then I was pretty certain I would hate it.
LOL because I've only read Verity and I thought the exact same thing. It was promising until we got to the ""romance"" and then I was like 'no actually I see where the hate is coming from' lmao
Did I watch all these spoilers? Yep! Because I’m probably not gonna read any CoHo ever. But I’m glad you enjoyed these and got your reading mojo back! Also Death of a Cheerleader was a good movie NGL. Not the tearing up at quotes…lawdddd
The way I press like on your videos as soon as I click on them because I just know I'm going to like it. I love your content! You are one of my favorites on UA-cam and I always look forward to your videos!
I love that we’re supporting being proud of books we know aren’t technically the best, we should read and love books that make us feel, but this book?? I literally screamed when I read that scene when Ryle was begging her for sex. I could not. I tried. So much strength in the story for sure, but the execution just made it hard for me to have the feels! Totally here for feeling no shame about books we enjoy though, sometimes a lot of the criticism I see directed towards romance especially feels loaded with misogynistic prejudice, and we KNOW that society thrives on belittling women for the things they enjoy, whether it be reading romance or wearing makeup. If a book gave you the butterflies, then it resonated with something in you. End of, no explanation needed.
I read It Ends With Us and was so conflicted with my opinions that I had to unhaul the book just to get the anxiety out of my eye sight.
After watching your video, I want to reread and pick up the sequel!
A good book will make you feel. Colleen did that with this book. 💯 it’s the first book Ive liked in a long time. I read alot, but this one made me feel. I was on the whole rollercoaster with Lilly.
I realize this is late, but I just finished the book. I relate so well to your comment. I have been disappointed with so many of the books I’ve read lately. But this one moved me. It was refreshing to read characters experiencing real emotions even if they weren’t always pretty.
After seeing nonstop trashing of her books you’ve finally made me want to actually try one
😎😎
I’ve been super hesitant to check out anything CoHo after the rage reading of all of Ali Hazelwood 😂 but now I feel like I have to at least give these a shot. Love your takes lol
***adding after reading It Ends With Us***
Does CoHo need to be praised as a phenomenal writer, word-smith, or world builder, no. But the story, the journey, the ride we went on with Lily?! I love what she did. Also I’m biased because I love flower names. Thank you for getting me over my initial side eye at anything Book-tok hyped ❣️
🥰🥰
I loved the book “it ends with us” love the plot love the Story and the Chemistry with the Characters. I love that it talks about the past time & the Present time with the Journal enteries I love the love relationship with Lily and Atlas. I loved Ryle form the Beginning but the end I Slowly hated him. Now for “it Starts with us” I feel like the plot could of been better there is some things I like & some I don’t. For the things that I liked is that you get to read Atlas & Lily’s perspective on how they got back together & they finally got a happy Ending with them getting married which Is so sweet. Now for the things I didn’t like was that the first book was written a little better then the second book, it didn’t gave me the plot I wanted & it was a bit too cheesy & mediocre. However Atlas was a Sweetheart, Both Characters deserve a happy ending.
The only thing I don’t like about “it ends with us” is the casting for the movie, I find it a bit Bizzare that they picked Blake lively to play which is very odd it just seems random bc I’ve never envisioned Blake as Lily. I feel the sameway for the rest of the cast. Also the hell was Blake wearing she looks like Sybil Trelawney💀 it awful I don’t recommend watching the movie.
I know this is late but I love your enthusiasm i reading It Ends with Us and I am really enjoying it. Is it the best book ever but I am enjoying and feeling sad at the hard parts. It’s a good summer read
I love Lily and Atlas I haven’t read the sequel but my favorite part of the books were the journal entries cause I loved their relationship. I do love a good Lifetime movie every now and then this book definetly doesn’t romanticize abuse maybe her other books do but not this one
Question, why do people say she is not the most well written author? I’ve read this numerous times and people of course have their criticisms of plot and characterization, but it’s not compelling evidence to me to say she’s a poor writer. It’s puzzling. I’m a teacher, and I read a shit ton of boring prose and poetry. To me, a good writer is someone that writes the book that makes you pick it up and read it. Lol now that may be smut 🤷🏾♀️ but least you’re reading.
Anyways Lol on you standing ten toes down 😂 I think I’ll pick up it starts with us. Beautiful recommendation/ review video. Have a blessed day and keep reading!
I don't think I'll ever read a coho book but I love this for u !!
I haven't read Colleen Hoover yet but I agree from your description that it doesn't sound like she was romanticizing abuse. Statistics say it takes a victim, on average, seven major incidents before they leave an abusive situation. Also, I love a good, angsty story, but I also truly enjoy the ones that are low angst. I enjoy seeing couples together and happy. I don't need to suffer the entire time. Call me boring if you must. 😂
I personally would still not read this book because how she handled the mental health aspects of it(yes I am a psychology major) I felt it was very bad and stereotypical but I am glad you felt the book was okay
Mother may I sleep with danger was another good lifetime movie.
YESSS
I am rereading It Ends With Us because of your review. I really thought I would never read it again because it was so distressing. I am about to read It Starts with Us so on your recommendation I am almost finished with the reread and let me say I think it deserves a reread. The first read is so shocking that I don’t think I really appreciated it. It’s a wonderful book. The characters are all wonderful. I love it.
Who would have thought CoHo would be the one to break your reading slump 😄 glad to hear you liked it (and reviewed it so I didn't have to read it lol)
Thank you for your honesty. Your comparison of Coho books to lifetime movies is great. I love those OG lifetime movies. Imho I don't think there is a way to describe domestic abuse that would satisfy everyone opinion and or experience with domestic abuse.
That’s fair. But also when writing there ARE ways to properly frame the content your’re writing about that helps set readers up to understand your message. And from the “controversy” around coho, it seems to me that she either doesn’t care about putting in the effort to set up that framework, or she wants that ambiguity.
And either way, imo, that’s not something I respect. And in the case of this type of content (abuse/dv) it’s actually quite irresponsible to leave it that way. Especially considering the target audience. Also considering the author’s stance on other things (like her refusal of tw despite her content?), it’s all just too questionable for me to enjoy.
Yo, Fifteen and Pregnant was a moooovie!
Yes it was !!
I enjoyed this review ☺️
I can agree on what you have said, just because she writes and talks about abuse in her books doesn't mean she likes it, she is writing it based on her experience and thats where people overlook it.
There's the issue that most of her books have something to do with incestual themes, abuse, all types of assault, stalking and probably even more than I missed now. I could understand if thats just the theme of her books, but I find it very strange that almost all of them have protagonists in these dangerous situations and they somehow think "Oh, this is fine" and end up falling for the dude. I've seen a review of varity and the protagonist literally helps the guy kill his wife while she's pretty much a vegetable and sees absolutely nothing wrong with it. The twist at the end literally sympathizes with varity despite her role as the supposed antagonist.
And I know I missed it but the entire reason that they killed her was because the "manifesto" was a writing lesson and personal therepy session for herself and she effectively dies for nothing. Nothing is good about that, im telling you now
I keep hearing all the hype about Colleen Hoover and I've heard good and bad, but this review is the first one that really gives me a window into the experience. Excellent video.
16:17 😂 LMAO this is why you’re one of my favorite booktubers 💕
I finally read Verity (coerced by a coworker) last week. I will say as far as the writing goes, it kept me interested in what would happen next, but there were a lot of inconsistencies and toward the end it was like we threw all rationality out the window. And that final twist . . . I will just say I don't believe it could've happened like that. I don't want to spoil it for anyone else, but I was very frustrated with the ending and what the author chose to do with these characters. I doubt I will read another by her.
Also, the worst meet cute in all of literature!
It could be just me, but I never liked Ryle. Especially in the first few pages where he’s kicking the chair, that alone should’ve foreshadowed the relationship to come. Just cause he was taking his anger out on an inanimate object, doesn’t mean he won’t take it out on you. In fact, if I saw anyone doing that, I’m immediately leaving and I’m avoiding that person in the building, let alone let him touch on me within the next hour of meeting him. And then how he pushed and pushed and pushed for sex, like I get that she technically does like him back, but that’s still coercion. So, I immediately saw it coming when I was reading, but I do like the fact that she started to understand why her mom stayed with her abusive dad. That’s what made me keep reading was her realization of that.
I have never read a CoHo book, but my understanding is that she wrote IEWU as a response to the criticism she was getting because in IEWU the LI does all the things her other LIs do but now it's bad.
LOL, I had an idea you might like them, and no disclaimer should be needed! I quite like the Lifetime movie analogy - it's the sappy and virginal Hallmark ones that I despise 1000%!
TBH, as much as I get irritated with all the hype over this author (Queen Kennedy Ryan is FAAAAAAR superior in every single way, as are many others that never get a look in), I also don't get the hate either. I've read and enjoyed a few of her books and never got the impression that she was romanticising anything.
Also, why there are so many people expecting that every single book they read SHOULD be the best thing since sliced bread is so 🤬annoying. Mediocrity is what makes the world go round FFS 🤣🤣🤣. Anyway, as always TFS 😺
Thank God. Thanks for this video/review. I know for a fact now I will NOT be reading It Starts With Us. More Atlas and Lily? I would rather sleep in the abandoned house with just a towel in the winter in Maine. I'm all hoovered out. 👏🏽thank you!
I feel like these books wouldn’t have been scrutinized as much if she had had her heroines have this same realization of them being in abusive relationships and holding them accountable for what they do in her other books - it causes a bit of cognitive dissonance to know she can be so aware the abusive actions and still continue to write it just in other forms
How many books is in the "It Ends With Us"?? I'm kinda confused because some books are thicker and some are thin. 😂
Idk why I don’t feel Atlas and Lily, I just don’t like them😭 but im glad you enjoyed it!
I love Atlas
Not you making me want to read a Colleen Hoover book 🤣
Muahahahaahaha
I agree w you 100%. As a romance, which I don’t think this book is, is not enjoyable. This book is a drama and as a drama, is an enjoyable read. Great video 😌
❤😂 I’m so excited for this video!
There were other books that I found problematic and now, I just avoid to keep my sanity. I hear Verity has issues also.
Verity was a waste of time!! Also ugly love 😂
OMG Death of a Cheerleader, I'd completely forgot about that movie! 😂
oh shit, there's another marcella amongst your patrons? i rarely see anyone else with that name!
It ends with us is my least favorite colleen Hoover book so I'm definitely will not be reading the sequel
your brave to do this when you said you aren't going near this.....the problem is these days, stalking, abuse, sex assaults, bullying, pedophillia, incest, rape, kidnap, murder, it is all being normalised, romanticized, fantasized, sexualised, and stuff like that/ It has become woven into everything. I am not sure when this became a thing, but we have taken a dark and scary turn. People wrote stories to help tell their stories, but now it has turned into something else.
I stopped reading that book halfway through, but know how it ends. I wasn't font of the style, but the themes were great and not romanticised abuse. However, I didn't like the fact that a teenage Lily met adult Atlas, and that she kept the child and allowed Ryle to see the child. I wanted there to be a discussion about abortion.
I personally wont be buying any CoHo books but to those who enjoy them good on you.
Because I trust you, I will go ahead and read these! I bought the first one when the hype was big, but never got around to it. I was hesitant to start it because the TikTok girlies showed me they can't be trusted (The Love Hypothesis, Love on the Brain, etc. - I discovered those were not for me!)
Feel those feelings. We all have some low brow art that touches us like nothing else. I really don't understand this whole "emotionally manipulated" idea anyways. Just cause you see the feelings coming doesn't mean you were manipulated into feeling. You feel it because it is emotional and you are human. The writer did there storytelling job if you empathize enough to feel the emotions. Now some of that dialogue is not great and I can understand some people finding that hard to get over but to each there own.
Hi can I read it ends with is without reading the it starts with us?
Thank you for spoiling these. Your new house is looking gorgeous.
It starts with us is a good example of why some characters should remain as side characters. Atlas was interesting in the first one but he was only interesting because of his relationship with Lilly. Outside of that - meh. So when he became the main character, I found his story pretty boring and generic - I was so tempted to skip his chapters by the end of it. I also didn't think he was a good romantic lead. The most interesting part of that second book was watching Lilly navigate co parenting with Ryle.
I read It Ends with Us and rated it 5 stars. I don't think it romanticized abuse. If it did, l don't think Lily would have left Ryle in the end. I'm wondering if people are referring to Ugly Love when they say she romanticizes abuse. I don't remember much about that one, but it's been awhile since l've read it.
Hello I want to buy one of colleen hoover's books as a gift either it ends with us or it starts with us which one do you guys prefer to get?
It ends with us because it’s a serious
I read It Ends With Us before I got into TikTok or booktube and I loved it. I felt the story on a personal level and I don’t understand the hate for it. I didn’t enjoy It Starts With Us. It felt very mushy and cash grabby.
the reason people hate it is because she wrote it as a "gotcha" to the people who say she romanticizes abuse (bc she does.)
This is Roger and Dodger all over again for you lol. Stand in your truth.
The only CoHo book that sounds interesting to me is Verity. But it's not a priority.
You know, i am torn. Speaking as someone who is not a fan, I genuinely feel there is very valid criticism to be had about Coleen Hoover and the discussion about romanticizing abuse is an important one to delve into.
On the other hand, in the back of my mind I can’t help thinking that she- of all the authors with themes worth criticizing- is specifically being singled out and criticized to this extent because she is a successful female author creating content enjoyed and discussed by young women on the internet. There is the moral discussion of protecting young women and making sure they don’t grow up believing abusive behavior is ok. But are we sure this isn’t also, to some extent, an unconscious excuse to invalidate a woman’s career and downplay the validity of women’s interests? Women and minorities are typically targeted with far more extreme vitriol on the internet- as though people are just waiting for any excuse to attack. If I know anything, it’s that society loves to conceal discrimination behind “concern for the youths.”
Again, there are valid things to criticize about the content of many of her books. But I also get the impression that the situation has gotten big enough that people who have never read any of her books are jumping on the hate bandwagon and charging ahead because it’s fun to make fun of women’s fiction. Similarly, people are shaming fans of her books for liking what they like and telling them to have better taste. I just can’t help wonder if the discussion of abusive behavior in romance fiction could be had in a more constructive environment that doesn’t single out and make an example of just one author of many who does this.
I think we may be missing the forest for the trees here because it’s easier to get attention for trashing one person than addressing systemic concerns. Finding excuses to degrade women is a popular pastime on social media, is what I’m saying. This is what leaves me torn.
Though I’m not a CoHo girlie, watching you swoon over It Starts With Us made me so giddy. I know you’ve been down about the move and everything and sometimes it nice to just kick your feet and giggle over a romance lol
You are freaking hilarious!!! I had the same thoughts as you. I actually liked both books a lot. I have only read one other book by coho and these were definitely the best.
I read both and loved them, 5 stars. I know Colleen's books can have toxic stuff but she did well with these two books. They have a very important message. Some people were complaining that Lily didn't take her daughter away from Ryle, but that's not how it works it's extremely difficult for a single mother to get sole custody and prevent a father and more so a doctor who is well respected, like that's not reality. I think she showed how it's usually a co-parenting situation after divorce from an abuser. She again had people to back her up when Ryle started becoming abusive, unfortunately not all women have that. Anyway, I feel the same, I won't say sorry for liking Colleen's books. Some people on Twitter are like "If you read Colleen Hoover unfollow me/we can't be friends" etc, ok ig lol
Colleen Hoover is her own genre and it’s called abuse. It Ends With Us is the only exception really. The rest are nasty. This one handles it better
love the beverage bar
omg STOPPP NOW YOU'RE MAKING ME WANT TO READ THIS LOL
"Coho wooooo" 😅 this hahahaha not hating on the fans I enjoy some of her book myself.
Is it start with us worth reading?????
Excellent video!
Kay Webb Harrison
I tried reading one of the books you talk of in this video…I couldn’t 😂 it’s like Jenkins Reid, I don’t get the hype. I didn’t get far enough to read about the abuse but I was rolling my eyes so much I thought, if I’m cringing this much, I should stop lol. But I hear “romanticizing abuse” it makes me think she can’t write a book without domestic abuse or none of the romance progresses without abuse.
Edit: even just listening to you read passages is making me cringe 😂😂😂
It ends with us and verity are safe
Mam, when did you read 2 books?! 😂
I love the juxtaposition between your coho videos, you’re stanning her hard in this video.
i recently read Confess by CoHo and it stunned me how compelling the story could be.... if only it wasn't buried under a lot of extraneous BS. while i don't think the assault in that book is romanticized, either, it does feel unnecessary and more like the author was making sure i could never root for that guy (as if he was ever a real love interest). rather than a natural, tragic part of the story. if Confess had been exclusively about the female main character and her admittedly complex and nuanced situation (and like 150 pages shorter), i think it would have been one of the best books ive ever read.
I’ve read both and I loved them! I also loved Verity. I haven’t read anything else by CoHo. I really appreciate this review because I didn’t get the “romanticizing DV” vibe from these.
okay you've convinced me!! i'll read it ends with us now
I love lifetime movies too🙈
My issue was the 12 year old boy that likes the same sex. Its kids that will read that book. I don’t know it just really don’t sit right with me.
I read 'It Ends With Us' and 'It Starts With Us', and I definitely don't think the book romanticizes abuse. I think the approach was a very realistic one because many women struggle to leave their abusers. It's not always as easy as it may seem to leave an abusive lover. I thought the storyline was great, but there were too many cringe moments. The whole part when she's writing in her diary to Ellen Degeneres was just annoying to me. What teenager is obsessed with Ellen??? Her relationship with Atlas was truly beautiful, and I enjoyed every scene with the two of them. However, she didn't have to write a sequel. The sequel just felt forced and after a while of reading I got bored. I like that we learn more about each character, but it felt like she shouldn't have written the sequel.
It ends with us is the only 5 star I’ve ever given Coho, until it starts with us that is lol I gave them both 5 stars, sue me
Nope. Them books were TERRIBLE.
Is that a nugget ice maker!?!
I didnt see the glamourizing abuse either
If you like Atlas I just have a feeling you would like Graham in All Your Perfects! That book is so emotional and I may reread it soon. Tbh sometimes we just need strong emotions and a really simple writing style. Not every book needs to be dense
I liked Atlas right away and yes he is very similar to Graham. I wish Atlas was given more time. The book was ok I don’t have beef with CoHo but I’ve only read this one and All Your Perfects. I do have 1 or 2 students a year that are CoHo Stans. I’m just happy that they talk about it.
THANK YOU!! I read this years ago....I grew up in a home where my father abused my mom. I thought it was very realistic. Haven't read the sequel.