My favourite part about this is that it conclusively confirms that Infinity Stones work outside their own universe within the MCU. So, Loki defenders, there’s no reason those paperweights couldn’t have been more if Loki had grabbed them and ran, even if we assume the premise that they don’t work in the TVA cos reasons.
Yeah, Loki is a poorly written trash show that marvel has ever produced…. And yet there are dummies who blindly love the show with no problem whatsoever…. By the way, for a organization that can counter the infinity stones, they can’t seem to keep a 10 year old girl prisoner or capture her back whatsoever….. fuck seriously, fuck phase 4…..
@@walkingcubkid : Yeah. Loki made zero sense. The TVA was supposed to be an insanely powerful organization, but they're defeated by a little girl who just grabs their tech and runs. As if they wouldn't have any safeguards on the technology like DNA locks or even a simple password. Somehow though What If manages to be even more poorly written...
@@taragnor yeah, not to mention that they didn’t bother to put the fricken collar on her that they put on Loki? That rewinds him back in position, that would’ve been REEEEEAAALLY handy to use on her, but no, the show and the mcu phase 4 are written by a bunch of monkeys now. And yeah, what if doesn’t take anything into account, like why frost giant Loki is big when it was a established that he was a human sized frost giant, and was left to DIE. Yet Odin gives him back to loufie and it’s a-okay? I’m pretty sure loufie would’ve tried to kill Odin right there and just smash baby Loki’s brains in. marvel is REALLY losing their touch…
AND ANOTHER THING... When Thanos showed up on earth, he had the soul stone. But later, when Ultron is going on his big kill-spree, we see Gamora with the other Guardians of the Galaxy on the Sovereign planet fighting his invading army. How is Gamora still alive if Thanos has the soul stone? Theoretically, the ripple effect COULD have changed how Thanos went about gathering the stones. If Ultron killed Thor around the time AoU took place, then Thor wouldn't have been at Asgard during Ragnarok to have that encounter with Thanos at the end of that film, which means that the ripple effect would have sent Thanos on a different path than the one he took in Infinity War, but I'm not sure how that could have lead to him sacrificing someone other than Gamora to acquire the soul stone. Who else could he have even used for that anyway? Nebula?
I highly doubt Nebula was used to get the soul stone unless somehow the ripple effect had him actually care for Nebula at all. I'm pretty sure it was stated in the MCU Thanos didn't really care about Nebula at all. But it wouldn't be a "What If" episode if it didn't have plot holes.
Thanos needed Gamora to FIND the Soul Stone as well. He didn't know where it even was. He sent Gamora specifically to find the stone's location and she did, but lied and said she didn't. That's why he grabbed her and why she made Peter promise to kill her rather than be captured. Gamora was VITAL to him just FINDING the soul stone, not just retrieving it. He literally shouldn't know where to look without Gamora.
Just for the sake of argue, maybe one of the black brotherhood. Someone of them sended to find the stone, grows on thanos heart. But its just arguing, thats not explained and it feels that the last products of marvel has no further work than the first script
This is a problem with these episodes. We as viewers are naturally gonna assume everything, other than the mentioned changes, is the same if it is not shown. If there are more changes, or ripple effects, we need to be shown. This is why I think what if should be at least an hr
I wonder why watcher was surprised when Ultron showed up in party Thor's universe. He had already fought him before Ultron became aware of the multiverse
I thought that was weird too. Like in that episode he was surprised they showed up but then in the following episode he told the story like he already knows what happens. Including the evasion of the multiverse.
Is it just me or does it look like that Marvel realised that having Captain Marvel be this super allmighty powerfull character was a mistake when it comes to writting stories.
Unlikely, seeing as how they kept writing other characters as being more powerful than she is. The only person working for Marvel who thinks she's the strongest, is Brie Larson. Thor tanked a sun and has a weapon the IG can't touch. Strange can teleport, access other dimensions, and attack souls. Wanda restructures matter and minds at will. Carol at best is in 5th place. In Endgame, she was taken out of the fight by the Power Stone with one shot, Tony's nano armor was able to resist it. Thor was unharmed by Malekith attacking him with the Reality Stone, and he's gotten a lot more powerful since then. Also, if you watch closely, Endgame also proves Thor was more powerful than Thanos in Infinity War. Thor is the most powerful, followed by Strange, Wanda, then Tony. Carol ties with Rocket in 5th place.
@@cory6266 she is even lower then that. Groot is above with regeneration, Steve had the power of Thor, and hell even Hawkeye could take out Captain Marvel
In Loki they said the Infinity Stones only worked in the Universe they came from. Now they made out like Ultron has the power of the Stones in all of the Multiverse. So what one is true?
To be fair, they only said that magic (and the infinity stones) didn't work at the TVA, they never confirmed that they were using the comic explanation... Though this does mean that Loki could have stolen those infinity stones to use when he got out.
@@3dstuff654 But the comics were written WELL before this, and that has been established the entire time. You can't uphold this in one and then NOT uphold it in another. You have to be consistent. A decision should've been made the SECOND they decided to do the multiverse. Do infinity stones work across the multiverse? Yes or no. One decision, everyone follows the rule. That's how it's supposed to be, and they clearly didn't do that.
I think these would be better if they were more like DC elseworld. Like Justice League Gods & Monsters a bunch of changes with a compelling story and a longer run time
Another issue with the mind stone usage is that he was able to melt the infinity Gauntlet with ease. It was meant to harness the power of the infinity stones, but a blast from one infinity stone can melt it? How would it withstand all six combining together into a beam then? The acquisition of the infinity stones by Thanos is full of plot holes. Maybe the writers tried with the watcher and Ultron fight, but not the rest of the episode. And Clint’s “sacrifice” was more like a suicide when they started to have hope.
@@cancerconnoisseur Keep in mind the infinity gauntlet is composed of the same material Thor's new axe is. What did the AXE manage to do again just before the snap?
@@haku8135 it managed to wound Thanos and guard from his blast using the gauntlet… What’s your point? It’s a weapon. The gauntlet exists to protect the user from the power of the stones all used together in tandem, as the resulting feedback from using that power would kill a person without protection. However, Thanos is an organic being, and likely his command over the stones is limited by his mind. Ultron utilizing the mind stone is like the mind stone itself utilizing it’s own power at peak destructive potential. Ultron’s command of the stones would be mathematically far superior to Thanos’s as he is an artificial intelligence CREATED by the Mind Stone.
@@cancerconnoisseur No it isn't, you're just making this shit up. Ultron, is made from Tony and Bruce's minds using the mind stone to facilitate this. There is no reason to believe he has ultimate control over the stones. Thor's axe, DID EXACTLY WHAT YOU JUST SAID THE GAUNTLET CAN'T FUCKING DO! I don't give a shit how much you want to write the story for the writers, you're wrong.
Hawkeye un alived himself to take out some robots when it meant leaving the fate of the universe solely on BW's shoulders. Surely he would have been more useful staying alive.
@@harrambou9468 It was explained in the beginning, lmao. Did you watch the episode? They only survived because they were on a quinjet, and thus weren't at the final confrontation. After that, Ultron didn't even bother with him because they're humans, they offer nothing and all they had to do was really just fight off basic bots.
@@harrambou9468 I just told you, Ultron didn’t bother because to him everyone had died. It was clear that he didn’t know they were alive, because they were working hard to take out the bots so that they didn’t connect to the Hive aka Ultron. Hulk was killed during the fight, which makes sense considering how Ultron one shot Thanos. You’re asking the same dumb question that has an easy answer
I think the main ongoing issue with Captain Marvel is that they turned a flawed alcoholic mid-tier cosmic character into Superman by giving her a power boost, ignoring that her flaws are flaws, taking away her humility, and having her mock people that are weaker than her (or that she thinks are weaker than her). In short: what if Superman was a condescending dick, but still on the good-guy side?
"How can Hawkeye's arrows destroy drones created by the Infinity stones?" Hawkeye and BW never face the drones created by the stones. Ultron basically flew off into space the minute he had all six stones, taking all the Stone-created drones with him. "How do BW and Hawkeye expect a simple virus to destroy an infinity stone powered Ultron?" Simple: they don't know he HAS the the infinity stones. How could they? "Why doesn't Ultron just snap?" Well, robots can't snap their fingers... okay yeah that one's a joke. Also, I just want to point out the major inconsistency this episode has with the watcher: The Watcher in Episode 8: "What? Ultron can see me? How is this possible? This is terrible!" The Watcher in Episode 4: "Yo, Strange, what's up?"
Exactly, these people just don't understand the show at all. If they paid even the slightest bit of attention, they'd realize that their complaints and "critiques" make literally no sense in the slightest.
@@hydro6582 I mean, with slight modifications, all those criticisms can still apply. For example, Zola as a virus would still be less powerful than the super-AI Ultron.
The watchers are among the most powerful beings in the marvel universe, though the living Tribunal should have made an appearance. Universe destroying actions usually involve him.
@@ghidorah15 We've been waiting for creativity to flourish again for years now. So far there's no evidence to show that we'll see better TV and movies again any time soon. The entertainment industry is just too political and cautious to take risks and write good stories again.
I have a big problem with Thanos in this episode. How did he get the stones? The nova corps planet isn’t destroyed, so how did he get the purple stone? How did he get the soul stone if the guardians are still alive? And why did Thanos show up directly after ultron won? In the movies he started getting the stones in 2018.
I think he still invaded the Nova Corps but instead of destroying it, he just invaded and took the Power Stone then left, we see the Nova Corp building with some scaffolding on the sides of the building.
Why didn´t Ultron just snapped everyone out of existence is explained in the line "I didn´t evolve by staying inside of ice". He wanted to do it by himself directly, he wanted to walk the walk and fight the fight.
This thing falls apart in a lot of different elements. The fact that ultrons able to instantly kill thanos and yet vision can do the same thing. In the main continuity. The fact that thanos has the time stone. Who should be with the ancient one. And of course What the hell was she doing when the ultram was killing everyone. And the big one of all time that's not only a comic book thing but a thing they established in Loki the infinity stones don't work outside their universe.
That last one is what's causing some debate. Some say the stones not working in the TVA is because they're outside of space and time. Some theorize that the stones do work outside of their native universe but are not AS powerful than if you were in your home universe. Apparently the whole "not working in other universes" is only a limitation of the comic versions.
@@Webshooters1 I see no reason to break from that concept of the comics. To have the infinity stones be able to operate in other multi verses means that In the infinite multiverse there would be multiple infinity stone users that transcended there reality and broke out. And the natures of the stones Not being able to sort themselves out by not working outside their respective univer respective universe is only causes more problems that bad riders will exploit. The MCU is already bad with its own continuity And rules of the universe. Especially with the TVA
@@ironbaysqiureg4827 Neither do I being familiar with the comics myself but I guess this was them saying the MCU is entirely divorced while still taking inspiration from the comics. Someone explained it in technical terms that so long as the source code exists, even if you branch it it still works. So long as the universe the stones came from still exists their power remains though I feel their power would be more limited in scope when outside their native universe. Also it was said that Ultron after destroying everything and taking in the emptiness of the universe developed cosmic awareness or perhaps using the stones so much did it. This one episode has opened up a rabbit hole when it comes to the infinity stones.
Thanos in the original MCU timeline has knowledge of the strengths and weaknesses of the avengers. this is why he sends his followers to take care of Vision first because he was a threat(remember how Wanda almost crushed Thanos in Endgame with her powers that originate from the mind stone). Also, Wanda and Vision were suppressing the mind stone to remain together as much as possible and vision was afraid the entire time which blinded his decision making. while what if Thanos has little knowledge of these new events. however, I agree with you that Thanos lost too easily against Ultron and possessing the time stone is problematic
Honestly it’s the best episode since EP4 with Doctor Strange, if the entire show had that consistent tone throughout it would have been actually awesome instead of being mostly mediocre.
With regards to Natasha's out-of-place shield quip, I gotta give fair play to Clint, who rightly calls her out on it. Also, isn't it a general rule of the Infinity stones that they're supposed to be rendered inert when they exit the boundaries of their universe? That's just something that was bugging me during this episode.
These writers never read a marvel comic their just making up stuff as they go. The Council Reeds learned the hard way, why the infinity gauntlet is completely useless outside of it's original dimension.
Really irritating that they're still desperately trying to make her liked though ..... they fucked her up and instead of fixing her or just moving away from her they're still trying to ram Captain Karen down the fans throats.
The only interesting and fun female character in the MCU is Mantis. MAYBE the mom in Shang Chi but I didn’t see that one. This is really sad and they should do better but call me out if you say I’m wrong.
On the surface, it may seem good, and there are some good moments… but make no mistake: looking deeper into it will only make anyone appreciate it even less. You’d be amazed how easy it is to notice these extra mistakes that the writers try so desperately to hide.
Do you not remember Vision getting stabbed and basically dying on a gurney in the Wakandan Palace while they tried to extract the mind stone from his head in Infinity War? Because that's what good ole Vis was up to when Thanos showed up. Therefore, he was physically incapable of lasering Grimace in half even if he wanted to.
That never happened. Vision was stabbed in the city, recovered, and then went to Wakanda to have the stone safely removed so they could destroy it without killing Vision. He also fights Thanos's MINIONS and still cannot manage to defeat them, getting stabbed AGAIN despite seeing it coming this time. He literally has to kill the fucker WITH HIS OWN DAMNED WEAPON with a surprise attack. He also doesn't even ATTEMPT to blast Thanos when he SHOWS UP and instead makes his girlfriend KILL HIM. They have a LOT of time to prepare Vision to FIGHT Thanos, he wasn't injured when the battle for Wakanda started, but they decide that's not going to work and pick the path of destroying the stone.
In Marvel Zombies the Zombies managed to bite the Watcher but he's said the type of being he was that didn't affect. Plus there was actually a Character that could purge the infection?
Can someone explain how black widow is sooooo freaking strong. She was carrying a robot and Hawkeye without batting an eye. And throwing a shield she’s never touched before like a super soldier. It’s the little details that stand out so much!
This line of questioning can be turned onto the Black Widow movie as well. She falls from a tall building and dents... I forget if it was a dumpster or a car. But she falls from a great height and causes some damage with her impact and she just gets up and shakes it off like it was nothing. No broken bones or anything. Not even a scratch. There was probably an exchange in the writer's room that day that went something like "she's got super powers now I decided" -> "what?! when did that happen?" -> I'm gonna need you to get aaallllll the way off my back about that" -> "oh! I'm sorry! let me get off of that thing for you!"
She used caps shield briefly in AOU Edit: Also she is a highly trained agent so it shouldn't be surprising that she's really good at using just about anything as a weapon
The Glaive only fucked him up for a little while, and he wasn't when Thanos actually showed up. He was completely convinced, even when they were standing around chatting about their options, that the ONLY option was to destroy the stone, period. Nothing else would work. The only reason they didn't do it immediately is because destroying the stone would destroy Vision, and they didn't want to do that. The plan was to safely remove the mind stone, THEN to destroy it. The plan was never, remove the stone, then USE it.
@@haku8135 No, it didn't because he couldn't heal. He was constantly getting injured throughout that entire time, in fact, before Thanos came he was clearly injured when he was getting beaten in Wakanda. He was barely clinging to life toward the end, when he was helping Captain America vs Corvus Glaive. Did you guys just not watch this movie?
@@hydro6582 I watched the movie, he was both conscious and capable of moving when Thanos showed up. Not only did he NEVER just laser Corvus in half, he didn't even ATTEMPT to resist Thanos. If it was SUPER easy to just laser the gauntlet into DUST why the fuck wouldn't he at least attempt it? The answer, is because he knew there was NO way a single stone can beat FIVE and the gauntlet, so destroying it was their only option. Adding this into the canon just weakens their own fucking stories. If ONE stone is more powerful than a gauntlet made to contain them plus FIVE stones, there shouldn't have been a fight.
@@haku8135 He was conscious, but was clearly hurting, after all he’d gotten into a fight with Corvius when he attacked the Wakadians that were guarding him in the first place. And 1 stone doesn’t beat all stones, they’re all equal that’s incredibly obvious. He only beat Thanos because he acted faster, simple as that. If they had an actual fight, Thanos would’ve stomped him with mid diff. The gauntlet is to protect the user from the power of the stones/using them, not AGAINST them in direct combat. (If this sounds condescending, that’s my bad I don’t mean to be insulting) I’ve seen this movie many, many times and I remember the scene very well. And keep in mind, these are two VERY different people with VERY different solutions. Vision is definitely not as ruthless as Ultron, shown in the way he approaches his fights. Meaning one isn’t going to do what the other does, that would make no sense.
Uh, 'We don't trade lives' had nothing to do with killing your enemies (everyone racked upa body count in Wakanda), merely that they weren't willing to sacrifice their allies even for the greater good.
Captain Marvel left the planet before T2 came out, she doesn't know there already was a sequel. It literally was not a joke to her she was being deadly serious.
What I don't get is why is the Watcher going to Strange Supreme for help. Uh hello Watcher the Living Tribunal exists you know. And speaking of the Living Tribunal where the hell is he. He was confirmed to exist in the first Doctor Strange movie and its literally his job to overlook the Multiverse and ensure no threat against the whole Multiverse exists. Living Tribunal is arguably the second strongest character behind the One Above All so why not go to him for help. Living Tribunal would end Ultron without breaking a sweat since his power is so high the Stones have no effect on him. Marvel definetly messed up by confirming the Living Tribunal exists. Since now they have to ignore him so threats like Ultron could work.
When you're running from an entity that the writers have forgotten has no power outside of its native universe what else can you do but follow the plot?!
@@Darkwintre I don't know call in the person whos supposed to do their job and have them sort it out. Or better yet dont make Ultron a Multiversal threat
@@jedininja3016 I can't help thinking they could have had Ultron appear in every episode to nab one of the infinity stones or try to so each character has a reason to team up when it comes to that part with Party Thor's universe being where they meet each other to fight off Infinity Ultron. It feels like they've forgotten the lessons the early MCU observed when building the movies that ended in Endgame or Infinity War I suppose.
i would think that before ultron got the other stones thanos would put up much more of a fight with him than we saw. man they just keep on wasting him don't they?
I'm pretty sure they'd use the excuse that VIsion (as he said in his own words) didn't understand the Mind Stone very well, so he didn't know how to use it to its full potential. Meanwhile, Ultron, who was created from the Mind Stone, understood it fully.
They are not smart enough to come up with that excuse for one. And secondly, a lame excuse that is pulled out of their a** at the last minute instead of having a well thought out story that makes sense is still just an excuse and a clear and obvious sign of bad writing as well as lack of criativity and basic inteligence and comum sense. And they didn't even come up with that, you came up with it for your comment here so as with every other episode of this show the writers prove once again how incompetent they are and how little they care even when they are trying and make something half-decent.
Besides there is absolutely no way Thanos wouldn't have wiped the floor with Ultron anyway, they once again nerfed Thanos and made him an incompetent week fool. Thanos is supposed to be a power house even with no infinity stones and he in that moment had all of them, just the control over time and reality would be more than enough for anything Ultron could do with the mind stone. The Thanos we know(even the version we have in the live action movies) would stop, freeze or reverse time stopping Ultron's attack and bend reality destroying his body with a thought, this scenario where Ultron kills him easily is just plain impossible.
Still doesn't make sense, i guess the "Living Tribunal" doesn't exist in the MCU, else - he would have dealt with Ultron, in fact if a being acquires some power and goes on this kind of campaign, other cosmic beings take notice and act.
@@tryingtodobetter1577 well then the writers decided to not use him or many of the other cosmic entities who would interfere considering the level of power Ultron seemingly acquired for no particular reason.
The thing is why would the watcher be concerned about good or evil? His job is just what his name is. To watch. Why does he get emotional over anything that happens as if it affects him personally?
Assuming he has any capacity for sympathy, it's pretty natural to observe something and form an opinion on it. I mean, to him the different universes are sort of like modern people watching movies. We become attached to characters and want to see some character's succeed and others fail.
No its stated its because he has emotions in the comics all the time. He aint no robot. Plus he lives in the universe so it being destroyed is a no brainer to do something
I truly love the episode,it made Ultron more terrifying and scary than whatever Age of Ultron did and the Watcher is interesting,to answer some of your questions if your in a some kind of the End of the World and you are trying to survive you can make joke and be serious on the situation that there's no time to be sad or crying,the Infinity Stones can't work beyond of their power or the Power Comic,and because of what Brie Larson did to the character it created a negative feedback to Marvel and making her overpowered don't help neither,all in all this episode is a 9 out of 10.
U forgot one thing. Infinity stones don't work outside their respective universe. So everything Ultron did outside his universe is writer's pure bullshit
The "Buildup" is probably Evil Strange, Post-Apocalyptic Natasha, Black Jesus T'Chlla, Captain Carter and maybe Bro-Dude Thor (Probably as a comic relief idiot, if not raplaced by a woman) to team up and beat Multiverse-Ultron, just to show that the original, too white and too male Avengers have nothing on "Diversity Avengers".
Anyone remember how cool Carol was in the Earth's Mightiest Heroes cartoon? That show got me excited when they first announced a Captain Marvel movie. But what we got was.... just no where near as good.
I seem to recall her always being liked in the comics .... Hollywood got hold of the character and warped her from cool, bad ass, tough female hero into Captain Allmenarestupidpigsandwomendoeverythingbetter. And they still can't figure out why she's the least popular character to appear in the MCU.
@@toddtaylor6506 it was the other way around to some degree. Her character changed in the comics like 8 year ago first and that's the one they adapted for the MCU. Her new books keep getting canned soon after starting, worst of all she gave us civil war 2....
Why is everyone missing the part where the Infinity stones only work in their respective universe? Once Ultron left his he'd be weak as hell compared to the watcher. Every universe has a set of infinity stones so just gather them up or find a universe where someone good has them.
Ultron should have lost ALL of his extra powers the second he crossed over into Uatu's domain. Because the Infinity Stones can only work within their own universe.
Thanos had the chance to react like if he just killed him right as he walked through the portal I believe that. But he went and spoke to him, and Thanos clench his fist. it should have been a fight. Idk maybe Ultron just vastly faster
It’s called Bathos…undercutting a dramatic scene with a joke…Marvel does it over and over. Just let it stand! And I figured out what Capt. Marvels weakness is..it’s humor.
Honestly the MCU should never have gone Multiverse. To many options going forward, not enough commitment to choosing a path. When we watched IronMan > Avengers End Game we watched producers creating ideas that had been cemented ahead of time into a production where possibilities narrowed into the final product... Now it feels like the MCU is more in love with 'What-if' scenario's than bringing that same production/story discipline to this new phase that's lit like a damp squib.
Ultron killing Thanos that easily makes perfect sense in this episode. In life people are held back in many ways but most often it’s are own lack of imagination or just not thinking of something that stops us from doing it. In fiction the characters are limited by the rules the creators give them. Power level wise there is no reason the Vision couldn’t have killed Thanos the same way, character wise the Vision had no chance of killing Thanos like that. Ultron on seeing the Infinity Gauntlet realises the Mind Stone is one of six & decides he wants the rest and immediately acts in the most efficient way to achieve this goal. We are used to villains who monologue and come up with elaborate traps, this writer’s Bond villain having captured Bond would simply pull out a gun & put two rounds into Bonds head. This simple act seems OP or out of place because of the over the top ringmaster like villains we have now as a majority in pop culture and which Ultron of the movie could be counted as. This Ultron having won stood over his burning victory & realised there was nothing more, so embraced the cold, calculating machine to avoid bitter disappointment. Then enter Thanos and Ultron acts as we see in the episode. I liked it because there is no reason why any villain should hold back & Ultron powered by an Infinity Stone should be a universe ender.
They did explain how Nat and Clint survived. They were in a Quinjet the nukes went off. Also Vision was damaged multiple times in Infinity War. He only just barely had the strength to stab Corvius with his own weapon so he was pretty weak plus unable to phase and by the time Thanos arrived in Wakanda he was too weak to do much of anything.
It still made no sense how the mind stone blast killed thanos or broke the gauntlet so easily in the movies when vision was hit with his beam when corvus reflected it back on him it only blasted him back and vision is less durable then thanos so it should have done the same thing to thanos. And the gauntlet is made uru which is stronger then vibranium which means in age of ultron ultron should have been cut in half when he was hit with the beam
Honestly, it was nice to see Captain Marvel actually like... struggle and get beat. I mean sure it takes a cosmic god level threat and doesn't save her Sueness, but hey, it's something
11:25 "probably not the reaction I was supposed to have to that" Tough to say. Disney / Marvel do seem to like encouraging viewers to empathize with the bad guys. Killmonger and Thanos as Marvel examples. I've lost track (and wasn't paying attention anyway) to how many movies Disney has released now that made solo films out of the villains from their animated classics with the villain treated as the hero of the story even as it sets the stage for their role as a villain later. They want us thinking that murderous psychopaths should be defended and that they have good reasons behind their genocidal goals. This specific example here though... Cheering at the defeat of their beloved saint Captain Cardboard... Yeah, I don't think they wanted people to enjoy that part of the episode.
You forgot to mention that all you have to do to stop Ultra/vision is get him to enter the TVA where those stones don't work . You think the Watcher would know that
But Disney says fuck the rules let Ultron be more powerful like this is disgusting and disrespectful to both the honor of stan Lee and the OG Marvel fans
Pretty sure I recall Vision being crippled by a stab from a techno-magic spear at the start of that movie, and still being crippled when Thanos showed up. Otherwise Viz would have wiped the floor with that married couple of minions. They don't explain it in the film, but the plot logic holds up. (Av3 has plenty of problems, but not that.)
@@dollmaker6599 it's made of vibranium but I mean more feats and scale like destroying planets yeah but seeing watcher and traveling through dimensions? Faster than Thanos use of the stones kinda weird
When this episode was leaked I was most excited for this one and it was my favourite but i have two gripes which are why is this Ultron so powerful? And Wasn’t Ultron’s plan to eliminate human life to rebuild a peaceful society? So now he’s done he should rebuild and I thought the infinity stones all worked in the universe they’re from, so Ultron shouldn’t be able to punch Watcher through universes
Yeah it's a main problem with this show where characters that should be badasses get nerfed (Thanos) and they elevate characters that were fairly weak to god-tier status for no reason. I mean, MCU Ultron was weak as hell, Captain America held his own 1v1 against him, and even if he did have Vision's body, it's not like Vision is all that powerful either. He's not even the most powerful Avenger, let alone someone that could cut Thanos in half in one blow. I have the impression that Ultron is just outright terrible at designing stuff. I mean, he had access to Stark tech... things like the Hulkbuster, and multiple Ironman suits, but instead he chose to have a bunch of easy-to-kill drones that got wrecked without issue. About the only thing believable in this episode was that Ultron's drones didn't get any better even with the infinity stones. That makes sense from the guy who could have created an army of remote control ironman suits and instead settles for cheap disposable garbage.
Unless they were retconned in the comics I'm pretty sure you are right, the infinity stones only work in their own universe. Which once again proves these writters know nothing about the marvel universe, don't care or are incompetent or all three combined. They'll just hide under the excuse of "oh it's a 'what if' scenario so estabilished rules don't matter anyway". But of course anyone that says that just fails to understand what made the What if stories good in the comics. Also you are completely right, the entire premise of this episode is flawed from the very beginning, MCU's version of Ultron is much weaker than he is in the comics so there is no way we can even begin to believe he would be this powerful and destroy everything even if he had vision's body. And then if it was realistically written by the time Thanos arrives on earth he has all other infinity stones, he would have just destroy Ultron, take the mind stone and wipe half the universe, that is it. The notion that Ultron with one stone can just kill Thanos with a near full set of infinity stones and full control over time and space and reality? Yeah right.
Clearly these people know zip about the Thanos character, he was already quite powerful before the gauntlet. Visions beam is just a powerful laser, nothing more.
The hope is that they’ll destroy each other or create something new, but if you HAVE to pick between “Hydra controls the world” and “Destroy the universe,” option A is marginally better.
Perhaps it wasn’t the stones alone that allowed Ultron to become aware Perhaps he just evolved enough-with help from the stones-to where he alone learned to see beyond what most organic beings can
My problem is how in the comics, the stones only have power over the exact universe they're from, so Ultron shouldn't be able to do anything to the multiverse.
Well technically he can, so long as he does it from within his universe. That's very difficult though, and it really only happened once when the Beyonders tried to kill the universe by throwing another universe at it. Captain America had to use the stones to save the universe, which also broke the stones for a while because he didn't do it correctly. Yeah Ultron wouldn't be able to get much done though.
The only thing i don't understand is why is there only one Watcher narrating and seeing several universes, when it was made in the comics that there are has many Watchers has many alternate universes.
The writers' don't know about that I doubt they watched the movies giving the obvious errors throughout the series though I think they did read the zombie run.
The infinity stones only work in their universe in the comics. You can't get a blue stone from world 1178 if you're missing it from 1150. Crossing realities is suppose to nullify the stones and make them inert. You'd have to cross back to use the stones of that world. They're attuned to that specific reality. They established that to prevent something like this.
After the showrunner for Wandavision made clear she’d never heard of Mephisto before the show aired, you should recognize that they’re not hiring people with knowledge of the comics to do these shows.
Great review, you really had me at 9:05 "it did need 1 sequel, just one". Also you might need to remind your subs that UA-cam is unticking the notifications bell, this is the third time in 5 weeks it's happened. Just thought you should know.
Why is Capt Marvel NOT outraged? Ultron killed billions and wiped out everything. But she's treating Ultron like party Thor. Also they really have a hard on for killing Tony Stark.
Love you....but I gotta correct you. In the beginning of the episode, Hawkeye is destroying Ultronbots. But,these bots are not the other he made with the reality stone. These were the standard drones, which is why Hawkeye could take them out.
Ultron Killed Thanos because he was Made for that purpose.. While Vision is made from Jarvis A.I and wasn't programed to work that way... you can see it with Vision himself as he use powers and force when needed but rather talk his way out... Plus Ultron is Made from the Mind stone.. making it more compatible with the Yelllow stone for a more accurate cut... remember when Vision fire his Beam for the first time?.. Yeah Rody Remember...
My favourite part about this is that it conclusively confirms that Infinity Stones work outside their own universe within the MCU.
So, Loki defenders, there’s no reason those paperweights couldn’t have been more if Loki had grabbed them and ran, even if we assume the premise that they don’t work in the TVA cos reasons.
*prepares my melter*
You better back away from those stones
@@crimsonking440 *uses Reality Stone to turn it into bubbles*
Yeah, Loki is a poorly written trash show that marvel has ever produced…. And yet there are dummies who blindly love the show with no problem whatsoever…. By the way, for a organization that can counter the infinity stones, they can’t seem to keep a 10 year old girl prisoner or capture her back whatsoever….. fuck seriously, fuck phase 4…..
@@walkingcubkid : Yeah. Loki made zero sense. The TVA was supposed to be an insanely powerful organization, but they're defeated by a little girl who just grabs their tech and runs. As if they wouldn't have any safeguards on the technology like DNA locks or even a simple password. Somehow though What If manages to be even more poorly written...
@@taragnor yeah, not to mention that they didn’t bother to put the fricken collar on her that they put on Loki? That rewinds him back in position, that would’ve been REEEEEAAALLY handy to use on her, but no, the show and the mcu phase 4 are written by a bunch of monkeys now. And yeah, what if doesn’t take anything into account, like why frost giant Loki is big when it was a established that he was a human sized frost giant, and was left to DIE. Yet Odin gives him back to loufie and it’s a-okay? I’m pretty sure loufie would’ve tried to kill Odin right there and just smash baby Loki’s brains in. marvel is REALLY losing their touch…
AND ANOTHER THING... When Thanos showed up on earth, he had the soul stone. But later, when Ultron is going on his big kill-spree, we see Gamora with the other Guardians of the Galaxy on the Sovereign planet fighting his invading army. How is Gamora still alive if Thanos has the soul stone?
Theoretically, the ripple effect COULD have changed how Thanos went about gathering the stones. If Ultron killed Thor around the time AoU took place, then Thor wouldn't have been at Asgard during Ragnarok to have that encounter with Thanos at the end of that film, which means that the ripple effect would have sent Thanos on a different path than the one he took in Infinity War, but I'm not sure how that could have lead to him sacrificing someone other than Gamora to acquire the soul stone. Who else could he have even used for that anyway? Nebula?
I highly doubt Nebula was used to get the soul stone unless somehow the ripple effect had him actually care for Nebula at all. I'm pretty sure it was stated in the MCU Thanos didn't really care about Nebula at all. But it wouldn't be a "What If" episode if it didn't have plot holes.
Thanos needed Gamora to FIND the Soul Stone as well.
He didn't know where it even was. He sent Gamora specifically to find the stone's location and she did, but lied and said she didn't. That's why he grabbed her and why she made Peter promise to kill her rather than be captured.
Gamora was VITAL to him just FINDING the soul stone, not just retrieving it. He literally shouldn't know where to look without Gamora.
Maybe he took another person’s family and forced them to sacrifice some one special to that person and take the soul stone
Just for the sake of argue, maybe one of the black brotherhood. Someone of them sended to find the stone, grows on thanos heart. But its just arguing, thats not explained and it feels that the last products of marvel has no further work than the first script
This is a problem with these episodes. We as viewers are naturally gonna assume everything, other than the mentioned changes, is the same if it is not shown. If there are more changes, or ripple effects, we need to be shown. This is why I think what if should be at least an hr
Thorias: Why does this show intend to nerf Thanos so much?
Me: Because he’s a straight PURPLE male 😂
You deserve a prize for making me giggle like a madwoman. Have a penguin named Peppy 🐧
It's Purpuraphobia. Or is it 🤔
I wonder why watcher was surprised when Ultron showed up in party Thor's universe. He had already fought him before Ultron became aware of the multiverse
I thought that was weird too. Like in that episode he was surprised they showed up but then in the following episode he told the story like he already knows what happens. Including the evasion of the multiverse.
You’re looking at things through a lens of logic and continuity. That only works if the writers did the same. Obviously they did not.
@@e2daron Maybe he's also watching through Disney Plus and didn't see that episode yet.
But seriously, that is a bit of a head-tilter.
Is it just me or does it look like that Marvel realised that having Captain Marvel be this super allmighty powerfull character was a mistake when it comes to writting stories.
In my book thete's still only one Carol Danvers. Ms. Marvel
@@oiwithyou that's who she actually is in the mcu they just won't admit it. She abandoned the military so she isn't a captain anymore
Unlikely, seeing as how they kept writing other characters as being more powerful than she is. The only person working for Marvel who thinks she's the strongest, is Brie Larson. Thor tanked a sun and has a weapon the IG can't touch. Strange can teleport, access other dimensions, and attack souls. Wanda restructures matter and minds at will. Carol at best is in 5th place.
In Endgame, she was taken out of the fight by the Power Stone with one shot, Tony's nano armor was able to resist it. Thor was unharmed by Malekith attacking him with the Reality Stone, and he's gotten a lot more powerful since then. Also, if you watch closely, Endgame also proves Thor was more powerful than Thanos in Infinity War. Thor is the most powerful, followed by Strange, Wanda, then Tony. Carol ties with Rocket in 5th place.
@@cory6266 she is even lower then that. Groot is above with regeneration, Steve had the power of Thor, and hell even Hawkeye could take out Captain Marvel
In Loki they said the Infinity Stones only worked in the Universe they came from. Now they made out like Ultron has the power of the Stones in all of the Multiverse.
So what one is true?
You want continuity and consistency in your fiction? WEIRD.
The answer to your question is the D&D approach, they just kinda forgot about that.
When they wrote this it was 2 years ago before they even wrote the scripts for loki
To be fair, they only said that magic (and the infinity stones) didn't work at the TVA, they never confirmed that they were using the comic explanation... Though this does mean that Loki could have stolen those infinity stones to use when he got out.
@@3dstuff654 But the comics were written WELL before this, and that has been established the entire time. You can't uphold this in one and then NOT uphold it in another. You have to be consistent. A decision should've been made the SECOND they decided to do the multiverse. Do infinity stones work across the multiverse? Yes or no. One decision, everyone follows the rule.
That's how it's supposed to be, and they clearly didn't do that.
I think these would be better if they were more like DC elseworld. Like Justice League Gods & Monsters a bunch of changes with a compelling story and a longer run time
Another issue with the mind stone usage is that he was able to melt the infinity Gauntlet with ease. It was meant to harness the power of the infinity stones, but a blast from one infinity stone can melt it? How would it withstand all six combining together into a beam then? The acquisition of the infinity stones by Thanos is full of plot holes. Maybe the writers tried with the watcher and Ultron fight, but not the rest of the episode. And Clint’s “sacrifice” was more like a suicide when they started to have hope.
It was meant to harness it’s power…. Not to protect against a concentrated blast from one utilized at it’s maximum potential.
@@cancerconnoisseur Keep in mind the infinity gauntlet is composed of the same material Thor's new axe is.
What did the AXE manage to do again just before the snap?
@@haku8135 it managed to wound Thanos and guard from his blast using the gauntlet… What’s your point? It’s a weapon. The gauntlet exists to protect the user from the power of the stones all used together in tandem, as the resulting feedback from using that power would kill a person without protection. However, Thanos is an organic being, and likely his command over the stones is limited by his mind. Ultron utilizing the mind stone is like the mind stone itself utilizing it’s own power at peak destructive potential. Ultron’s command of the stones would be mathematically far superior to Thanos’s as he is an artificial intelligence CREATED by the Mind Stone.
@@cancerconnoisseur No it isn't, you're just making this shit up.
Ultron, is made from Tony and Bruce's minds using the mind stone to facilitate this. There is no reason to believe he has ultimate control over the stones.
Thor's axe, DID EXACTLY WHAT YOU JUST SAID THE GAUNTLET CAN'T FUCKING DO! I don't give a shit how much you want to write the story for the writers, you're wrong.
@@haku8135 sure, its made of uru
Hawkeye un alived himself to take out some robots when it meant leaving the fate of the universe solely on BW's shoulders. Surely he would have been more useful staying alive.
“I don’t wanna fight anymore 😫”
How is it that Hawkeye survived but the fuckin Hulk didn’t
@@harrambou9468 Hulk keeps getting nerfed. He gets weaker with each movie and other variants of him aren't as strong as he once was.
@@harrambou9468 It was explained in the beginning, lmao. Did you watch the episode? They only survived because they were on a quinjet, and thus weren't at the final confrontation. After that, Ultron didn't even bother with him because they're humans, they offer nothing and all they had to do was really just fight off basic bots.
@@hydro6582 but I ask again
How is it that Hawkeye survived this long-AFTER getting off that quinjet, MIND YOU-but not? The fucking? HULK?
@@harrambou9468 I just told you, Ultron didn’t bother because to him everyone had died. It was clear that he didn’t know they were alive, because they were working hard to take out the bots so that they didn’t connect to the Hive aka Ultron. Hulk was killed during the fight, which makes sense considering how Ultron one shot Thanos. You’re asking the same dumb question that has an easy answer
I think the main ongoing issue with Captain Marvel is that they turned a flawed alcoholic mid-tier cosmic character into Superman by giving her a power boost, ignoring that her flaws are flaws, taking away her humility, and having her mock people that are weaker than her (or that she thinks are weaker than her). In short: what if Superman was a condescending dick, but still on the good-guy side?
They do at least some of that with pretty much every female character except Mantis. That’s why MCU female characters besides Mantis are so boring.
@@bunnywithakeyboard7628 I wanna hug Mantis. I know she's just a character, but if she were real I bet she'd give wonderful calming hugs
"How can Hawkeye's arrows destroy drones created by the Infinity stones?"
Hawkeye and BW never face the drones created by the stones. Ultron basically flew off into space the minute he had all six stones, taking all the Stone-created drones with him.
"How do BW and Hawkeye expect a simple virus to destroy an infinity stone powered Ultron?"
Simple: they don't know he HAS the the infinity stones. How could they?
"Why doesn't Ultron just snap?"
Well, robots can't snap their fingers... okay yeah that one's a joke.
Also, I just want to point out the major inconsistency this episode has with the watcher:
The Watcher in Episode 8: "What? Ultron can see me? How is this possible? This is terrible!"
The Watcher in Episode 4: "Yo, Strange, what's up?"
Exactly, these people just don't understand the show at all. If they paid even the slightest bit of attention, they'd realize that their complaints and "critiques" make literally no sense in the slightest.
@@hydro6582 I mean, with slight modifications, all those criticisms can still apply. For example, Zola as a virus would still be less powerful than the super-AI Ultron.
The watchers are among the most powerful beings in the marvel universe, though the living Tribunal should have made an appearance. Universe destroying actions usually involve him.
"What If... The Writers Actually Tried?"
Well that requires actual thought and creativity and unfortunately Thorias we live in a post creativity era.
lmao oh okay. So you watched the episode and knew everything that was going to happen bc there was no creativity or thought put into it? Please 😂
No, we don't. This, too, shall pass and creativity shall flourish again.
@@ghidorah15 We've been waiting for creativity to flourish again for years now. So far there's no evidence to show that we'll see better TV and movies again any time soon.
The entertainment industry is just too political and cautious to take risks and write good stories again.
Creativity survives, just not in big budget entertainment. It lives in the efforts of indie, fan, and original creators. By original I mean new IP's.
There are plenty of people who still have creativity, just nobody woke, so they don’t get hired.
I have a big problem with Thanos in this episode. How did he get the stones? The nova corps planet isn’t destroyed, so how did he get the purple stone? How did he get the soul stone if the guardians are still alive? And why did Thanos show up directly after ultron won? In the movies he started getting the stones in 2018.
The writer's don't pay attention to details like that.
T'Challa being called Starlord for example.
I think he still invaded the Nova Corps but instead of destroying it, he just invaded and took the Power Stone then left, we see the Nova Corp building with some scaffolding on the sides of the building.
Why didn´t Ultron just snapped everyone out of existence is explained in the line "I didn´t evolve by staying inside of ice". He wanted to do it by himself directly, he wanted to walk the walk and fight the fight.
This thing falls apart in a lot of different elements.
The fact that ultrons able to instantly kill thanos and yet vision can do the same thing. In the main continuity.
The fact that thanos has the time stone. Who should be with the ancient one.
And of course What the hell was she doing when the ultram was killing everyone.
And the big one of all time that's not only a comic book thing but a thing they established in Loki the infinity stones don't work outside their universe.
That last one is what's causing some debate. Some say the stones not working in the TVA is because they're outside of space and time.
Some theorize that the stones do work outside of their native universe but are not AS powerful than if you were in your home universe.
Apparently the whole "not working in other universes" is only a limitation of the comic versions.
@@Webshooters1
I see no reason to break from that concept of the comics. To have the infinity stones be able to operate in other multi verses means that In the infinite multiverse there would be multiple infinity stone users that transcended there reality and broke out.
And the natures of the stones Not being able to sort themselves out by not working outside their respective univer respective universe is only causes more problems that bad riders will exploit.
The MCU is already bad with its own continuity And rules of the universe. Especially with the TVA
@@ironbaysqiureg4827 Neither do I being familiar with the comics myself but I guess this was them saying the MCU is entirely divorced while still taking inspiration from the comics.
Someone explained it in technical terms that so long as the source code exists, even if you branch it it still works. So long as the universe the stones came from still exists their power remains though I feel their power would be more limited in scope when outside their native universe. Also it was said that Ultron after destroying everything and taking in the emptiness of the universe developed cosmic awareness or perhaps using the stones so much did it.
This one episode has opened up a rabbit hole when it comes to the infinity stones.
Thanos in the original MCU timeline has knowledge of the strengths and weaknesses of the avengers. this is why he sends his followers to take care of Vision first because he was a threat(remember how Wanda almost crushed Thanos in Endgame with her powers that originate from the mind stone). Also, Wanda and Vision were suppressing the mind stone to remain together as much as possible and vision was afraid the entire time which blinded his decision making. while what if Thanos has little knowledge of these new events. however, I agree with you that Thanos lost too easily against Ultron and possessing the time stone is problematic
Honestly it’s the best episode since EP4 with Doctor Strange, if the entire show had that consistent tone throughout it would have been actually awesome instead of being mostly mediocre.
...The "best" episodes are the ones where their is total destruction... I think the writers needs therapy.
@@Raximus3000 what
@@DunkMyNuts
They find total destruction interesting solely, that is not a good sign.
With regards to Natasha's out-of-place shield quip, I gotta give fair play to Clint, who rightly calls her out on it.
Also, isn't it a general rule of the Infinity stones that they're supposed to be rendered inert when they exit the boundaries of their universe? That's just something that was bugging me during this episode.
These writers never read a marvel comic their just making up stuff as they go. The Council Reeds learned the hard way, why the infinity gauntlet is completely useless outside of it's original dimension.
Any episode where Captain Marvel dies is at least a good episode.
Really irritating that they're still desperately trying to make her liked though ..... they fucked her up and instead of fixing her or just moving away from her they're still trying to ram Captain Karen down the fans throats.
The only interesting and fun female character in the MCU is Mantis. MAYBE the mom in Shang Chi but I didn’t see that one. This is really sad and they should do better but call me out if you say I’m wrong.
Dr. Strange was probably just happy to see someone else, yes he was a bit cocky but he knew the watcher didn't have any other choice.
Seeing Dark Doctor Strange again was nice 😏
@@harrambou9468 I'm hoping he appears in multiverse of madness.
On the surface, it may seem good, and there are some good moments… but make no mistake: looking deeper into it will only make anyone appreciate it even less. You’d be amazed how easy it is to notice these extra mistakes that the writers try so desperately to hide.
The fact that these video titles are more interesting outcomes than the actual show...
Exactly... They should hire ppl like him...however they'll never do that BC it'll take effort, and can't push any bull agendas
Do you not remember Vision getting stabbed and basically dying on a gurney in the Wakandan Palace while they tried to extract the mind stone from his head in Infinity War? Because that's what good ole Vis was up to when Thanos showed up. Therefore, he was physically incapable of lasering Grimace in half even if he wanted to.
That never happened.
Vision was stabbed in the city, recovered, and then went to Wakanda to have the stone safely removed so they could destroy it without killing Vision.
He also fights Thanos's MINIONS and still cannot manage to defeat them, getting stabbed AGAIN despite seeing it coming this time. He literally has to kill the fucker WITH HIS OWN DAMNED WEAPON with a surprise attack. He also doesn't even ATTEMPT to blast Thanos when he SHOWS UP and instead makes his girlfriend KILL HIM.
They have a LOT of time to prepare Vision to FIGHT Thanos, he wasn't injured when the battle for Wakanda started, but they decide that's not going to work and pick the path of destroying the stone.
All I got to say is you better watch out for Ultron
Honestly, just seeing Captain Marvel lose once again was satisfying.
6:12 Nah, Black Widow taught me fall damage only exists when the plot says it does.
Facts
That movie was ass anyway
It really depends on what video game you’re playing. And it IS a video game because nothing about her since Avengers 1 has felt like a real person.
In Marvel Zombies the Zombies managed to bite the Watcher but he's said the type of being he was that didn't affect. Plus there was actually a Character that could purge the infection?
Can someone explain how black widow is sooooo freaking strong. She was carrying a robot and Hawkeye without batting an eye. And throwing a shield she’s never touched before like a super soldier. It’s the little details that stand out so much!
This line of questioning can be turned onto the Black Widow movie as well. She falls from a tall building and dents... I forget if it was a dumpster or a car. But she falls from a great height and causes some damage with her impact and she just gets up and shakes it off like it was nothing. No broken bones or anything. Not even a scratch.
There was probably an exchange in the writer's room that day that went something like "she's got super powers now I decided" -> "what?! when did that happen?" -> I'm gonna need you to get aaallllll the way off my back about that" -> "oh! I'm sorry! let me get off of that thing for you!"
She used caps shield briefly in AOU
Edit: Also she is a highly trained agent so it shouldn't be surprising that she's really good at using just about anything as a weapon
Well cause she's a female character so she has to be perfect at everything. Because giving female characters flaws is sexist apparently.
Corvuis Glaive stabbed Vision with his weapon multiple times in infinity war, hence why he was pretty useless throughout the movie
The Glaive only fucked him up for a little while, and he wasn't when Thanos actually showed up. He was completely convinced, even when they were standing around chatting about their options, that the ONLY option was to destroy the stone, period. Nothing else would work. The only reason they didn't do it immediately is because destroying the stone would destroy Vision, and they didn't want to do that. The plan was to safely remove the mind stone, THEN to destroy it. The plan was never, remove the stone, then USE it.
@@haku8135 No, it didn't because he couldn't heal. He was constantly getting injured throughout that entire time, in fact, before Thanos came he was clearly injured when he was getting beaten in Wakanda. He was barely clinging to life toward the end, when he was helping Captain America vs Corvus Glaive. Did you guys just not watch this movie?
@@hydro6582 I watched the movie, he was both conscious and capable of moving when Thanos showed up.
Not only did he NEVER just laser Corvus in half, he didn't even ATTEMPT to resist Thanos. If it was SUPER easy to just laser the gauntlet into DUST why the fuck wouldn't he at least attempt it?
The answer, is because he knew there was NO way a single stone can beat FIVE and the gauntlet, so destroying it was their only option. Adding this into the canon just weakens their own fucking stories. If ONE stone is more powerful than a gauntlet made to contain them plus FIVE stones, there shouldn't have been a fight.
@@haku8135 He was conscious, but was clearly hurting, after all he’d gotten into a fight with Corvius when he attacked the Wakadians that were guarding him in the first place. And 1 stone doesn’t beat all stones, they’re all equal that’s incredibly obvious. He only beat Thanos because he acted faster, simple as that. If they had an actual fight, Thanos would’ve stomped him with mid diff. The gauntlet is to protect the user from the power of the stones/using them, not AGAINST them in direct combat. (If this sounds condescending, that’s my bad I don’t mean to be insulting) I’ve seen this movie many, many times and I remember the scene very well. And keep in mind, these are two VERY different people with VERY different solutions. Vision is definitely not as ruthless as Ultron, shown in the way he approaches his fights. Meaning one isn’t going to do what the other does, that would make no sense.
@@haku8135 And I thought the whole point of what if is that it’s not canon? It’s just a fun thing to have around when they aren’t pushing out movies
7:50 Someone might argue for the reasons of morality and quote "we don't trade lives", though that still isn't an excuse for not slicing off his arm.
Uh, 'We don't trade lives' had nothing to do with killing your enemies (everyone racked upa body count in Wakanda), merely that they weren't willing to sacrifice their allies even for the greater good.
Captain Marvel left the planet before T2 came out, she doesn't know there already was a sequel. It literally was not a joke to her she was being deadly serious.
What I don't get is why is the Watcher going to Strange Supreme for help. Uh hello Watcher the Living Tribunal exists you know.
And speaking of the Living Tribunal where the hell is he. He was confirmed to exist in the first Doctor Strange movie and its literally his job to overlook the Multiverse and ensure no threat against the whole Multiverse exists.
Living Tribunal is arguably the second strongest character behind the One Above All so why not go to him for help. Living Tribunal would end Ultron without breaking a sweat since his power is so high the Stones have no effect on him. Marvel definetly messed up by confirming the Living Tribunal exists. Since now they have to ignore him so threats like Ultron could work.
When you're running from an entity that the writers have forgotten has no power outside of its native universe what else can you do but follow the plot?!
@@Darkwintre I don't know call in the person whos supposed to do their job and have them sort it out. Or better yet dont make Ultron a Multiversal threat
@@jedininja3016 I can't help thinking they could have had Ultron appear in every episode to nab one of the infinity stones or try to so each character has a reason to team up when it comes to that part with Party Thor's universe being where they meet each other to fight off Infinity Ultron.
It feels like they've forgotten the lessons the early MCU observed when building the movies that ended in Endgame or Infinity War I suppose.
@@Darkwintre well it is phase four. And sadly phase four seems to have forgotten most of what they've learned about good storytelling.
People who wrote Doctor Strange evidently knew their lore. The people who write this garbage clearly do not. Welcome to Phase 4.
FINALLY THE REVIEW
You give this episode more credit than I did. The stones only work in their home universe ! So the whole story is dumb.
i would think that before ultron got the other stones thanos would put up much more of a fight with him than we saw. man they just keep on wasting him don't they?
I'm pretty sure they'd use the excuse that VIsion (as he said in his own words) didn't understand the Mind Stone very well, so he didn't know how to use it to its full potential. Meanwhile, Ultron, who was created from the Mind Stone, understood it fully.
They are not smart enough to come up with that excuse for one.
And secondly, a lame excuse that is pulled out of their a** at the last minute instead of having a well thought out story that makes sense is still just an excuse and a clear and obvious sign of bad writing as well as lack of criativity and basic inteligence and comum sense.
And they didn't even come up with that, you came up with it for your comment here so as with every other episode of this show the writers prove once again how incompetent they are and how little they care even when they are trying and make something half-decent.
Besides there is absolutely no way Thanos wouldn't have wiped the floor with Ultron anyway, they once again nerfed Thanos and made him an incompetent week fool. Thanos is supposed to be a power house even with no infinity stones and he in that moment had all of them, just the control over time and reality would be more than enough for anything Ultron could do with the mind stone. The Thanos we know(even the version we have in the live action movies) would stop, freeze or reverse time stopping Ultron's attack and bend reality destroying his body with a thought, this scenario where Ultron kills him easily is just plain impossible.
Still doesn't make sense, i guess the "Living Tribunal" doesn't exist in the MCU, else - he would have dealt with Ultron, in fact if a being acquires some power and goes on this kind of campaign, other cosmic beings take notice and act.
@@gabnel1000 living tribunal was mentioned in doctor strange
@@tryingtodobetter1577 well then the writers decided to not use him or many of the other cosmic entities who would interfere considering the level of power Ultron seemingly acquired for no particular reason.
The thing is why would the watcher be concerned about good or evil? His job is just what his name is. To watch. Why does he get emotional over anything that happens as if it affects him personally?
He does so in the comics and gets in trouble with his fellow watchers as a result
Because he's a being with emotions 🤣
Assuming he has any capacity for sympathy, it's pretty natural to observe something and form an opinion on it. I mean, to him the different universes are sort of like modern people watching movies. We become attached to characters and want to see some character's succeed and others fail.
No its stated its because he has emotions in the comics all the time. He aint no robot. Plus he lives in the universe so it being destroyed is a no brainer to do something
@@theboredguy2107 Also, didn't he even intervene at least twice when Galactus tried to destroy Earth and the Home of the Silver Surfer?
I love when a guy called "The Watcher" is a Goku lvl entity punching and headbutting thru dimensions.
I truly love the episode,it made Ultron more terrifying and scary than whatever Age of Ultron did and the Watcher is interesting,to answer some of your questions if your in a some kind of the End of the World and you are trying to survive you can make joke and be serious on the situation that there's no time to be sad or crying,the Infinity Stones can't work beyond of their power or the Power Comic,and because of what Brie Larson did to the character it created a negative feedback to Marvel and making her overpowered don't help neither,all in all this episode is a 9 out of 10.
Because it seems out of character with captain marvel being the hard ass she is and literally Ultron wiping out life across the universe
U forgot one thing. Infinity stones don't work outside their respective universe. So everything Ultron did outside his universe is writer's pure bullshit
Your best reviewed video, of a What If episode yet, Thorias. I'm looking forward to your next review of episode 9.
The "Buildup" is probably Evil Strange, Post-Apocalyptic Natasha, Black Jesus T'Chlla, Captain Carter and maybe Bro-Dude Thor (Probably as a comic relief idiot, if not raplaced by a woman) to team up and beat Multiverse-Ultron, just to show that the original, too white and too male Avengers have nothing on "Diversity Avengers".
Seeing T’Challa is amazing tho 😌
And that's just sad
Anyone remember how cool Carol was in the Earth's Mightiest Heroes cartoon? That show got me excited when they first announced a Captain Marvel movie. But what we got was.... just no where near as good.
I seem to recall her always being liked in the comics .... Hollywood got hold of the character and warped her from cool, bad ass, tough female hero into Captain Allmenarestupidpigsandwomendoeverythingbetter. And they still can't figure out why she's the least popular character to appear in the MCU.
@@toddtaylor6506 it was the other way around to some degree. Her character changed in the comics like 8 year ago first and that's the one they adapted for the MCU. Her new books keep getting canned soon after starting, worst of all she gave us civil war 2....
Why is everyone missing the part where the Infinity stones only work in their respective universe? Once Ultron left his he'd be weak as hell compared to the watcher. Every universe has a set of infinity stones so just gather them up or find a universe where someone good has them.
Yeah I know. I was thinking that whole time watching the episode
Ultron should have lost ALL of his extra powers the second he crossed over into Uatu's domain. Because the Infinity Stones can only work within their own universe.
You know what would make a just as interesting what if episode, WHAT IF PETER PARKER BECAME DAREDEVIL. Just give us back Daredevil marvel.
It was so funny how the watcher was monologuing then Ultron like I see u and he still monologuing then he realize and runs
Thanos had the chance to react like if he just killed him right as he walked through the portal I believe that. But he went and spoke to him, and Thanos clench his fist. it should have been a fight. Idk maybe Ultron just vastly faster
I think Thanos wanted to say a monologue .
Says ultron kill captain marvel
Me: i gotta watch this episode
It’s called Bathos…undercutting a dramatic scene with a joke…Marvel does it over and over. Just let it stand! And I figured out what Capt. Marvels weakness is..it’s humor.
What if black panther is white? XD
well a story of a WHITE child abandoned in africa..iTs called TARZAN....
@@FULANODETAL there is a What if about a white black panther
And the avengers were shocked because they hired him because of quota
White wolf...not bucky,the comic book one
@@pedrohenriquemoraessantos1164 there is also a What if story
In addition to Tarzen there's the Phantom there should be others I'm currently forgetting...
Thanos just cannot catch a break in What if.
Honestly the MCU should never have gone Multiverse. To many options going forward, not enough commitment to choosing a path.
When we watched IronMan > Avengers End Game we watched producers creating ideas that had been cemented ahead of time into a production where possibilities narrowed into the final product... Now it feels like the MCU is more in love with 'What-if' scenario's than bringing that same production/story discipline to this new phase that's lit like a damp squib.
Sylvie messed up big time and the rest of the multiverse is paying for it.
Ultron killing Thanos that easily makes perfect sense in this episode. In life people are held back in many ways but most often it’s are own lack of imagination or just not thinking of something that stops us from doing it. In fiction the characters are limited by the rules the creators give them. Power level wise there is no reason the Vision couldn’t have killed Thanos the same way, character wise the Vision had no chance of killing Thanos like that. Ultron on seeing the Infinity Gauntlet realises the Mind Stone is one of six & decides he wants the rest and immediately acts in the most efficient way to achieve this goal. We are used to villains who monologue and come up with elaborate traps, this writer’s Bond villain having captured Bond would simply pull out a gun & put two rounds into Bonds head. This simple act seems OP or out of place because of the over the top ringmaster like villains we have now as a majority in pop culture and which Ultron of the movie could be counted as. This Ultron having won stood over his burning victory & realised there was nothing more, so embraced the cold, calculating machine to avoid bitter disappointment. Then enter Thanos and Ultron acts as we see in the episode. I liked it because there is no reason why any villain should hold back & Ultron powered by an Infinity Stone should be a universe ender.
No it doesn't because the beam was never shown to be that powerful, and it shouldn't have broke the gauntlet either
They did explain how Nat and Clint survived. They were in a Quinjet the nukes went off. Also Vision was damaged multiple times in Infinity War. He only just barely had the strength to stab Corvius with his own weapon so he was pretty weak plus unable to phase and by the time Thanos arrived in Wakanda he was too weak to do much of anything.
It still made no sense how the mind stone blast killed thanos or broke the gauntlet so easily in the movies when vision was hit with his beam when corvus reflected it back on him it only blasted him back and vision is less durable then thanos so it should have done the same thing to thanos. And the gauntlet is made uru which is stronger then vibranium which means in age of ultron ultron should have been cut in half when he was hit with the beam
Honestly, it was nice to see Captain Marvel actually like... struggle and get beat. I mean sure it takes a cosmic god level threat and doesn't save her Sueness, but hey, it's something
This is probably the only one I'd watch then
I would have been very petty if I was Dr. Strange seeing the watcher begging for help 😂
True. Like "Oh look who came crawling? Mr. I-Cant-Interfere. You want my help? After you did nothing and let my bae and reality die? Hm...Nah."
11:25 "probably not the reaction I was supposed to have to that" Tough to say.
Disney / Marvel do seem to like encouraging viewers to empathize with the bad guys. Killmonger and Thanos as Marvel examples. I've lost track (and wasn't paying attention anyway) to how many movies Disney has released now that made solo films out of the villains from their animated classics with the villain treated as the hero of the story even as it sets the stage for their role as a villain later. They want us thinking that murderous psychopaths should be defended and that they have good reasons behind their genocidal goals.
This specific example here though... Cheering at the defeat of their beloved saint Captain Cardboard... Yeah, I don't think they wanted people to enjoy that part of the episode.
I thought the stones only work in the universe they were created in. So once Ultron leaves his universe he'd be just ultron again.
You forgot to mention that all you have to do to stop Ultra/vision is get him to enter the TVA where those stones don't work . You think the Watcher would know that
The tva cant exist if there is a multiverse because they actively try to stop one from existing
Fun fact: in the comics, Infinity Stones don't work outside their home universe.
But theoretically, Ultron didn’t gain awareness because of the stones (alone anyway) but through evolution
@@harrambou9468 Regardless, as soon as Ultron stepped through that portal to attack Uatu, the stones should have stopped working.
But Disney says fuck the rules let Ultron be more powerful like this is disgusting and disrespectful to both the honor of stan Lee and the OG Marvel fans
@@darknova1552 I don't think it was "fuck the rules" so much as a research failure
Pretty sure I recall Vision being crippled by a stab from a techno-magic spear at the start of that movie, and still being crippled when Thanos showed up. Otherwise Viz would have wiped the floor with that married couple of minions. They don't explain it in the film, but the plot logic holds up. (Av3 has plenty of problems, but not that.)
We all know its going to end with T'Challa just talking to Ultron. And they lived happily ever after.
Facts
It's called "Suspension of Disbelief". All fiction kinda sucks without it.
*sits alone in my loving Captain Marvel and not liking Larson box*
You Are Not Alone!
There a Dr Who reference to cheer you up!😉
(I like Captain Marvel just not that one!)
Definitely not alone in that box
*_"Manny comments feeds the algorithm"_*
- the Draugr
I can't believe your review made me feel sorry for Marvel (which I ain't) ignoring Disney and Fiege's corporate practice.
When he turn big and bite the galaxy I had galactic vibes from that
The power scaling weird cause vision body seem super Uber powerful for no reason
Wasn’t his body made out of some ridiculously strong metal?
Combine that with the infinity stones armor and I guess that’s why he’s so durable.
@@dollmaker6599 it's made of vibranium but I mean more feats and scale like destroying planets yeah but seeing watcher and traveling through dimensions? Faster than Thanos use of the stones kinda weird
@@silvertongue.242_99 I guess because Ultron is fused with the Mind Stone itself and later with the rest, while Thanos only wore the stones.
@@dollmaker6599 you meant mind stone yeah that how I figured it to be
@@silvertongue.242_99 yeah that one
the show isnt nearly as bad as you make it sound bro
When this episode was leaked I was most excited for this one and it was my favourite but i have two gripes which are why is this Ultron so powerful? And Wasn’t Ultron’s plan to eliminate human life to rebuild a peaceful society? So now he’s done he should rebuild and I thought the infinity stones all worked in the universe they’re from, so Ultron shouldn’t be able to punch Watcher through universes
Yeah it's a main problem with this show where characters that should be badasses get nerfed (Thanos) and they elevate characters that were fairly weak to god-tier status for no reason. I mean, MCU Ultron was weak as hell, Captain America held his own 1v1 against him, and even if he did have Vision's body, it's not like Vision is all that powerful either. He's not even the most powerful Avenger, let alone someone that could cut Thanos in half in one blow.
I have the impression that Ultron is just outright terrible at designing stuff. I mean, he had access to Stark tech... things like the Hulkbuster, and multiple Ironman suits, but instead he chose to have a bunch of easy-to-kill drones that got wrecked without issue. About the only thing believable in this episode was that Ultron's drones didn't get any better even with the infinity stones. That makes sense from the guy who could have created an army of remote control ironman suits and instead settles for cheap disposable garbage.
Unless they were retconned in the comics I'm pretty sure you are right, the infinity stones only work in their own universe. Which once again proves these writters know nothing about the marvel universe, don't care or are incompetent or all three combined. They'll just hide under the excuse of "oh it's a 'what if' scenario so estabilished rules don't matter anyway". But of course anyone that says that just fails to understand what made the What if stories good in the comics.
Also you are completely right, the entire premise of this episode is flawed from the very beginning, MCU's version of Ultron is much weaker than he is in the comics so there is no way we can even begin to believe he would be this powerful and destroy everything even if he had vision's body. And then if it was realistically written by the time Thanos arrives on earth he has all other infinity stones, he would have just destroy Ultron, take the mind stone and wipe half the universe, that is it. The notion that Ultron with one stone can just kill Thanos with a near full set of infinity stones and full control over time and space and reality? Yeah right.
Clearly these people know zip about the Thanos character, he was already quite powerful before the gauntlet.
Visions beam is just a powerful laser, nothing more.
If Anim Zola hack Ultron wouldn't he become a problem. Also maybe they thinking because Vision was wounded in Infinity War he was nerfed?
The hope is that they’ll destroy each other or create something new, but if you HAVE to pick between “Hydra controls the world” and “Destroy the universe,” option A is marginally better.
Perhaps it wasn’t the stones alone that allowed Ultron to become aware
Perhaps he just evolved enough-with help from the stones-to where he alone learned to see beyond what most organic beings can
One of the single most irritating parts in the movies was how pathetic and useless Vision ended up being.
Ultron put the people unfortunate enough to deal with Danvers shit out if their misery.
I quitted watching two episodes ago, but still watch your reviews.
They aren’t all as bad as those two, but they’re NEVER good.
My problem is how in the comics, the stones only have power over the exact universe they're from, so Ultron shouldn't be able to do anything to the multiverse.
Well technically he can, so long as he does it from within his universe. That's very difficult though, and it really only happened once when the Beyonders tried to kill the universe by throwing another universe at it. Captain America had to use the stones to save the universe, which also broke the stones for a while because he didn't do it correctly.
Yeah Ultron wouldn't be able to get much done though.
I can't wait for Venom 2 Let it be Carnage Review
Vision was hurt in the beginning and hence wasn't able to fight. That's what I thought.
To be fair, Clint does shut down Natasha after she tries to joke around...
Marvel: What If...It Didn't Suck
Have you actually watched any of the episodes
which ones
The only thing i don't understand is why is there only one Watcher narrating and seeing several universes, when it was made in the comics that there are has many Watchers has many alternate universes.
The writers' don't know about that I doubt they watched the movies giving the obvious errors throughout the series though I think they did read the zombie run.
@@Darkwintre makes sense
Ultron kills Captain marvel... not the hero we deserve, but the hero we need right now.
The infinity stones only work in their universe in the comics. You can't get a blue stone from world 1178 if you're missing it from 1150. Crossing realities is suppose to nullify the stones and make them inert. You'd have to cross back to use the stones of that world. They're attuned to that specific reality. They established that to prevent something like this.
After the showrunner for Wandavision made clear she’d never heard of Mephisto before the show aired, you should recognize that they’re not hiring people with knowledge of the comics to do these shows.
Marvel's What If...? is basically Star Wars: Vision, they're non-canon
I was like how Clint survive that snow maybe but ignore that I guess
I wonder if the French Cheese Larceny refused to do the voice-over for her own character, or was she not asked?
Seems like the infinity stones don’t give you passive buff and only works when activated so thanos was dumb for removing his armor
LOL. But Skynet constantly wins, hence sending ppl back to try and stop it.
Great review, you really had me at 9:05 "it did need 1 sequel, just one". Also you might need to remind your subs that UA-cam is unticking the notifications bell, this is the third time in 5 weeks it's happened. Just thought you should know.
"independence day this shit" ouch!
Why is Capt Marvel NOT outraged? Ultron killed billions and wiped out everything. But she's treating Ultron like party Thor.
Also they really have a hard on for killing Tony Stark.
All I got to say is you better watch out for Ultron
Love you....but I gotta correct you. In the beginning of the episode, Hawkeye is destroying Ultronbots. But,these bots are not the other he made with the reality stone. These were the standard drones, which is why Hawkeye could take them out.
lol "groundwork"
Ultron Killed Thanos because he was Made for that purpose.. While Vision is made from Jarvis A.I and wasn't programed to work that way... you can see it with Vision himself as he use powers and force when needed but rather talk his way out...
Plus Ultron is Made from the Mind stone.. making it more compatible with the Yelllow stone for a more accurate cut...
remember when Vision fire his Beam for the first time?.. Yeah Rody Remember...
The watcher does look really jokey not going to lie