Dungeons in real life were meant to keep people from escaping as they were prisons. I would think that the dungeon masters would make their dungeons as inaccessible and unfriendly as possible. A better solution would be for the adventurers to find their own solutions to the inaccessibility as part of the challenge if not as a major game objective. Find planks then set them into ramps, make a floating chair or find out how to brew an elixir that will repair any physical infirmity whether it was sustained years ago or was in place since birth. They could do anything other than disempower a fantasy character and reduce difficulty to match one's real world powerlessness.
Dungeon in D&D isn't the same thing as real life Dungeons. Its goal is to keep people out so kind of the opposite. It is more home security than anything. I mostly agree but it would be amusing to find ramps for a dungeon because the dungeon master himself is disabled. However doing that for every dungeon would be dumb.
Game dungeons have creatures too big to squeeze in their rooms. Sure the lair can fit some giant monstrosity but how the hell do you shoehorn it through the corridors to fit it. All bosses are ships in a bottle so it's best not to think too hard about it.
@@reptomicus That depends on how you design your dungeons, doesn't it? You're talking about a zoo dungeon there - that's very '80s OSR! ;-) People have been building game dungeons with considerations for proper ecosystems for decades now (though, admittedly, there are some really glaring errors in this regard).
I'm Paul the wheel chair bound tax attorney. I save adventurers from the kingdoms IRS agents by making sure they fill out the correct loot forms and inform them of their deductibles. Go in a dungeon? Are you stupid!?! I make bank chilling in town.
My current pc almost dies in every session, I have told my party if he dies I have so many fun plans for them to encounter a new pc and the heart breaking of looting his body
I happen to be an amputee in his low 20's, and I'll preface this by saying I think very differently from other people my age, but part of the fun of DND for me is roleplaying as someone who is not like me. I like being able to do or say things I wouldn't normally do or say in the real world. I think it feeds that creative itch I have and it's a great form of escapism. I don't understand why people would insert themselves wholly into their created characters. What I do, which I think is better, is to take a smaller aspect of myself or a quirk and integrate that into my character. That way, the character can be completely different from me yet almost familiar to me.
I think it’s due to the lack of imagination and as somebody who doesn’t have a disability I would totally Role play as a artificer who built his own medieval wheelchair. Because it would bring interesting story and events and dialogue.
This is another side you reveal - does being "disabled" make you... YOU? There's more to a person than their physical arrangement - you can make a character crafty like yourself rather than disabled like yourself.
I'm not a wheelchair bound but now I have feel like playing one just rubbing it in people face..Just rub my entitlement and smugness thinking I'm better than them lol..
@@DVSPress thanks for replying, that's a good point, something I live by is never judge a book by it's cover. Of course my disability is a part of my story, but I'd rather focus on the attributes that have helped me overcome the obstacles in my life. Craftiness is a pretty good one, another one I would wanna use for a character would be tenacity. There's frankly a lot, both positive and negative, such as one of my characters depends on a patron for power the same way I depend on my prosthetics to walk. I think it's something special to explain something complex like a disability in a relatable way and that's what I try to do.
For real people yes that's how you do it. For people that are divorced from reality and you hate other people That's not how you do it You have to completely change the systems and add a bunch of nonsense that means nothing Like wheelchairs and wheelchair accessible dungeons
@@krinkrin5982 if you are poor you cannot afford or obtain those spells unless you work your way up in level, so being crippled and not having access to powerful magic is a "reasonable" scenario - a crippled character is quite interesting concept eg Ivar the Boneless in Vikings, even if they are likely to die earlier - I always like to maim my players with disabilities to make their lives more difficult than vanilla
Can you imagine if they kept the guy from James Camerons Avatar was in a wheelchair throughout the entire movie. it would defeat the entire purpose of the freaking film.
@@lucascoval828 I can confirm this as someone who ends up in severe pain after standing for more than 30 minutes. (Think standing at attention for six hours, seems rather close painwise.) I would rather be in an 8 for pain than be in a wheelchair. (And no, I don't usually get to an 8 from standing for half an hour, that generally takes two or more hours.)
Yep. Failure to comply is a 10,000 gp per occurrence fine, enforced by the villain's patron deity. On the bright side, employment is booming for beings who know sign language.
The art for newer D&D is so cringe. Got a cookbook for christmas and the "characters" are much diverse such wow. I think what kills it the modern day hairstyles, it just does not fit.
What turned me off of 5e was the giant-headed mutant halflings. They look like something that would have been thrown into Monster Manual 3 to pad the page count.
I wonder why Millennials are prone to so this.... I'm a millennial and if I'm playing a moral agency game, I'll do one game as a self insert. If I revisit it, I'll do a saint/asshole run. I never much worried about my own traits though.... Imagine Deus Ex Human Revolution, but instead your an un-augmented slightly overweight 32 year old with a screaming infant and a clogged sink.
I usually run at least once as myself (or rather, the idealized version of myself, it's a game after all), then as someone completely different. Often of the opposite gender, just to see how the diague changes. I often also tend to play characters who are quite amoral or conniving because I like to imagine how someone with the 'outcome justifies the means' attitude would react in the same situation. It's fun, and allows you to consider moral scenarios from different points of view.
They're not, everything he said in this video is basically wrong. VIRTUE SIGNALLERS are calling for this wheelchair accessible bullshit. Literally EVERYONE I've seen on youtube and commenting on this nonsense that's ACTUALLY in a wheelchair in real life, thinks this is retarded. The LAST thing they want to do is to have this vast, amazing fantasy world with miraculous healing magic and dragons and spells, put themselves into that world, really immerse themselves, and then put THEMSELVES into a wheelchair. People with crippling disabilities want to get RID of them, not make up fantasy characters that are still suffering those disabilities. This movement stems from the woke ideology of representation over everything else. Where all that matters is diversity in every aspect, even if the actual thing drops majorly in quality because of it. People that are actually making characters while themselves being in wheelchairs DON'T want to make crippled characters, they want to be a badass barbarian or a sneaky rogue. Roleplaying a fucking wheelchair is just a NIGHTMARE. And nobody knows that better than people who actually use them in real life. This entire thing is proposed and supported by people that are NOT in wheelchairs.
I could see braille for a game set in the underdark where captured people would put braille on the walls to communicate with each other while trying to escape their slavery.... oh wait I forgot this is the woke WOTC, Slavery is evil and should not exist in any game!!!!
I've played a character with a walking stick before, House-style, they'd become a warlock explicitly because part of the pact was being able to walk again. Character's a paraplegic? Play a wizard who never gets off their horse, or play a psion that floats around like a Protoss High Templar everywhere. There are so many interesting ways to swing a character with a disability that wasting it by making wheelchair-accessible dungeons is a bloody shame.
I once played a halfling wizard who couldn't walk after an unfortunate incident with a rockfall crushed their lower legs. The DM allowed me to have a hireling to whose back the halfling was strapped. Went through quite a few hirelings that way, including ones the wizard had to fire as they ran screaming from the encounter leaving the rest of the party in the lurch. The party got my character's mobility Restored as soon as they could.
For the wizard one. They have a goliath butler who carries them about, due to their small frame the goliath has no issues carrying them about and helping them out.
The focus on self-inserts also robs people of the experience of roleplaying a character very different to themselves. I don't do tabletop RPGs anymore, but, for example, when I create different Dark Souls characters, there will be one which is more of a self insert that I explore the game for the first time with (and with a very boring build) and then a slew of other characters (with more focused builds) with very different personalities, and I enjoy playing up to those personalities.
Yeah, one of the things I like about RPGs and MMOs etc is the chance to mix things up and wear someone (or something) else's skin for a while. Then again I'm also a writer on occasion so spending time as a character not myself is familiar to me.
When I first started playing D&D, I brought my at the time best friend with me. We both made dwarves but he played the character like himself. A rude obnoxious loudmouth a******, with an opinion about everything. Needless to say I got invited back he didn't. I've been with that group for over 7 years now LOL
"We did it, minion! Jack thought he could stop us with a door? HA! I was MADE to open doors! There's no stopping us now, minion! Together, we shall free Pandora! I will lead you into battle! I will destroy Handsome Jack with my bare hands! I will -- STAIRS?! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"
Yoda was in a hover chair and used a walking stick, but of course the light side of the force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be...unnatural. There are ways to make a disabled character possible, like magic, gadgets, magical gadgets. Of course that would defeat the whole point. They don't want a disabled person going into a dungeon, they want a wheelchair going into a dungeon so that everyone can see their big virtue signal.
I tend to homebrew my dungeons anyways.... So WOTC can design their dungeons however they want... If the dungeon is at least partially accessible to wheelchairs I think it should say something about the history of the dungeon.... Maybe the elevator is broken, and the only other way down is through the elevator shaft, of the stairs....
A game where magic is everywhere and literal divine beings lend you their powers, yet you can't imagine god damn levitating wheelchair or any other lazy excuse? You need WoTC to do it for you?
Levitating? How about greater restoration, or regeneration, or polymorphing someone into a version of themselves with working legs if they were born that way. Are we talking about the same game?
@@Z1gguratVert1go I agree, in a world with magical healing Clerics and Paladins constantly roaming the countryside, your parents wouldn't have drug your crippled butt to the local chapel or shrine?
@@BillRoyMcBill high level adventurers are less than 0.1% of the population, high level NPCs do not have the time or inclination to go round healing commoners and other low borns - they are busy running kingdoms and fighting off demon hordes - magic is supposed to be rare or special, not ubiquitous, and higher level magic is like gold dust - the reason why it is more common in the average D&D game is because the player characters are themselves exceptional and dealing with exceptional situations so bringing themselves into contact with the exceptional - change your perspective to a lowborn peasant in a village, and it is remarkable to witness a 1st lvl healing spell or hold a gold coin - that is the gist of the 1st edition DMG as penned by the Great EGG - getting healed of a disability is just as amazing as it would have been in Christian Europe in the Middle Ages
@@caesar969 You must only play in slow, low magic games, with heavy politics themes...it is 'fantasy', no matter what game you play, it's ok to add some fantasy elements.
@@BillRoyMcBill The one time I played with someone who played a crippled character (the player himself was not a paraplegic or anything of the sort), it was because the DM (who he played with many times before) had a rule in his setting both lorewise and mechanically that if not healed within a certain time, certain injuries and status effects were untreatable by any healing/restoration spells. But yeah, was a fun campaign. He played a Gnome Wizard who couldn't walk, but having magic gave him creative solutions. And sometimes he'd be carried around on the back of my giant Half-Orc Barbarian during encounters where he couldnt spare the spell slots for spells to help him get around. Eventually he was able to get crab legs from an artificer that let him walk again, but that was later on
Oh I would make a wheelchair accessible dungeon. It would be great, lots of long, winding ramps, lush plants lining the walls. Then, at the very bottom, the boss would wait for you patiently. Upon his death, the anti magic fields go up, all the ramps turn into stairs, and the greenery starts to burn. Enjoy your timed dungeon escape sequence.
I remember playing D&D with DMs that required you to roll for everything, even your character’s class, gender, and race. So if you wanted to play a male, human warrior but rolled a female, gnome wizard, well that was just too bad, you were playing a female, gnome wizard or you weren’t playing at all. It was sometimes frustrating, but some of my best D&D memories come from those sessions.
Even if Wizards “owns” D&D, there are lots of D&D games. It’s like Kleenex. Not every D&D game has to toe this line. For the moment, it doesn’t seem like accessibility is a mandate in their youth culture of play (angry Twitter) so I’ll live and let live. They can do their thing over there. I’ll still be playing my D&D and they can try it out when they’re ready. And anyway, gotta tell ya it’s Gen Z, not so much Millenials
Hackmaster implemented quirks and flaws perfectly. Tons of disabilities that forced you to play your character with them and gave you some perks asking with those.
If I may bring a good old quote from good old Aristotle: "But most important of all is the structure of incidents (plot). For Tragedy (literature) is an imitation (mimesis), not of men, but of action and of life, and life consists in action, and its end is a mode of action, not a quality. Now, character determines men's qualities, but it is by their actions that they are happy or the reverse. Dramatic action therefore, is not with a view to the representation of a character: character comes in as a subsidiary to the action. (...) A further proof is, that novices in the art attain to finish the (...) precision of portraiture before they can construct the plot."
While I understand the point of this quote, in context to the video, the quote does lack a key understanding of good fiction. While the action does not 'need' a character, as the world will go 'round, a good story however 'does' need a character that can 'influence' the action. Otherwise the story will feel lacking because the character's actions have no impact the greater actions of the plot. Making the character essentially meaningless to a plot that does not need the character, otherwise.
@@DarkAshenfall Though I could make the point that centuries old tested stories have made their mark in literature where character is almost non present, I would still agree with you that action is better when is portrayed as a natural development of character. BUT, is more important that I defend Aristotle here (calling out a lack of understanding from him shouldn't be done lightly, mate). Better, I let him defend himself: "As in the structure of the plot, so too in the portraiture of character, the poet (author) should always aim either at the necessary or the probable. Thus a person of a given character should speak or act in a given way by the rule either of necessity or probability, just as this event should follow that by necessary or probable sequence. It is therefore evident that the unraveling of the plot (...) must not be brought about by the Deus ex Machina"
@@victoriaamat5368 Every story, with few exceptions, revolve around a character(s). So, I am not entirely certain what your point is. One of the oldest, the Odyssey, revolves around Odysseus. Without him, there is arguably no story. A story without a character is relegated more to of a tale or a folktale (whatever name best suits the style), rather than a story that can be related to by those listening to it. My intent was not to say he lacked understanding, simply to say that particular quote lacked a keystone in story making. A plot that drives the character is usually lacking and uninteresting. Whereas a plot driven, to some large degree, by character action is superior. In that it creates investment not only by the character and those around the character, but within the reader as well. As a character is a device meant to serve as someone for the reader to invest in. In many cases, a vessel in which the reader can 'become' apart of the world. Whereas without that investment, the reader might as well be reading a stuffy history book retelling the event from a distance. My analogies may not be entirely on point, but the key point is that narratives at least partially driven by character agency, create the richer of the two types of stories. Especially in a more modern lens and doubly so, from a D&D perspective.
@@DarkAshenfall I think I might be getting the grasp of what is the reason behind our discussion. I really don't see much of a disagreement now. The whole point behind the quote is that the actions (agency as we now call it) that the character commits are (or should be) the center of the drama (a little redundant there since drama=action). What I got from the quote and was trying to relate to the video was the following: a narrative (in a game, in a novel, etc.) that revolves solely or mainly around certain qualities of character (e.g.: being in a wheel chair, to which Aristotle economically refers simply as "character") and doesn't focus on the actions of such character (hence: "is by their actions that they are made happy") is inferior to the other one. Maybe a better translation could solve the problem (sorry that the one I first posted was a bit deficient or confusing): "And while character makes men what they are, it's their actions and experiences that make them happy or the opposite. They do not therefore act to represent character, but character-study is included for the sake of action."
GURPS has offered the ability to play even paraplegic characters for as long as I can remember. The devs have never made a big deal about it. Those people at WotC think they are so progressive and inclusive, while in reality they're just virtue-signalling.
I guess people used to be able to accept that they are not perfect, and in an escapist game they imagined some character better thanthem and get enjoyment from imagining themselves to be that special. Now everybody has their head filled with how special they are from birth, how could they possibly imagine someone more special? To be fair, a handicapped kid probably gets even more of this bullshit, because well-meaning idiots think that’s the only way they can put up with the way they are, so they actually believe it.
All I can think of is that tavern in waterdeep charging extra because it takes three guys to lower your wheelchair down the well into Undermoutain lol.
... this will only work if I can be a gnome engineer and turn my wheelchair into a mass-murdering, multi-dakka, rocket spewing wheelhouse of terror. It also has nitros, three cup holders, chainsaws and a nuke strapped to the back!
Another element is that there seems to be this stigma against experiencing "negative" emotions, like sadness and anger. Like something has gone wrong if you feel unapproved feelings.
They get called "Toxic" and anything toxic must now be purged from your life at all costs, and all of society has to restructure itself to accommodate you specifically. It's this shit that's destroying functional societies.
The rules came from someone who is in a wheelchair (Sara Thompson, The Dislocating GM on Twitter). WoTC taken the idea and put it into some stuff. its optional you can use or ignore as you want. For me I like options, do I think I would have wheelchair users in all my games, nope, would I make every dungeon easy for wheelchair users Nope. But its nice to have an option, and the rules totally cover how to handle stairs and the like.
@@Enazel The Combat Wheelchair. Interesting, but raises problematic questions as to some of the magic which can be repurposed for other means. Also, why wouldn't everyone get one, even if just to carry their stuff or hover over obstructed terrain? www.dicebreaker.com/games/dungeons-and-dragons-5e/news/dnd-5e-combat-wheelchair-rules
"I'm sorry Xanathar but according to the Ferunians with Disabilities Act your rope bridge does not meet the accessability standard as it denies access to you for proper monster slaying you will need to have a full suspension bridge that is no less than 120" wide to accommodate all adventures. While your at it you might need to up the loghting in here to prevent accidents by people without darkvision." Because getting to the monster should be easy.😥
There is actually some interesting opportunities to be had by playing a paraplegic character, and a big part of it is precisely how one overcomes or works around them. Having things cater to disabilities in universe defeats the entire purpose of choosing them and makes no sense in a fantasy setting Played once with a Gnome Wizard who was crippled (in the setting, stuff like that could only be magically healed for a limited time before they became untreatable short of rare divine intervention) and early on often had to ride the back of my huge Half-Orc Barbarian quite a lot. Creative solutions were often required for stuff with him, but it was cool to see what the player came up with. Eventually he got crab legs from an artificer which let him walk again, but that was much later on and it felt *earned*
I've been huge on narrative focused d&d since 3e. Taking death off the table doesn't just kill any sense of challenge mechanically, it kills dramatic tension in a lot of ways
If the party has a serious issue with character death, then I'll give them a quest to resurrect dead characters, but i make it something so tedious and annoying that they'll most likely never choose to do it again. Works pretty well from my experience.
DM: After two weeks of searching the jungle, you at long last have reached the lost temple of Bachnar. You stand at the base, staring up the long stairs leading to the entrance at the top in awe. The size of each step indicates the builders must have been at least ogre sized. Wheelchair Warrior: Wait, stairs? And they’re bigger than normal? DM: Yes, each step has a rise of about two feet. WW: Well that’s just great. Someone’s going to have to carry me. Deformed Druid: Well it won’t be me. My strength is only an 8 due to my severe scoliosis. I’ll be lucky if I can manage on my own. Double Amputee Barbarian: I only have one arm and I need the other to use my crutch to walk. I can get up the stairs no problem, but I’m not going to be able to carry you. Deaf Rogue with Arthritis: WHAT!? Mute Wizard: (signing) I don’t have Still Spell Levitation memorized... Rogue: WHAT!? Downs Syndrome Bard: (starts singing an uplifting song that boosts the groups’ ability to hit their foes) Bipolar Warlock: If he keeps singing like that I swear I’ll kill him myself. Rogue: WHAT!? DM: You know what, never mind.
Admittedly, when I first played D&D and the D20 Star Wars RPG, my very first characters were pretty much "me with pointy ears" or "me with a lightsaber." But as I grew as a player and person, I moved away from that. I believe I've noticed similar patterns in newer players. Muh Dungeons of Radical Representation are a microcosm of arrested player development.
I think the real question is... Do disabled people want D&D to have accessible dungeons? Or... Do certain overly sensitive people think that they want that without ever asking them?
I remember old school role playing. Anyone remember when you didn't have skill rolls to lean on. Didn't think to check for a false bottom in the treasure chest, well I guess you don't get that wand of fireballs.
I take one look at a tavern scene in D&D, with every conceivable player race, and remark sarcastically, "So where's the kid in the wheelchair?" WotC: "Hold my pretentious, organic, craft microbrew!"
Most of the characters I play are self-inserts, for the most part, but I completely understand people who prefer to play as other people. As a DM, those types of characters are the most fun to have in a campaign.
ALso, I had to talk my DM into letting a character die a couple months ago. It had failed a death save, then crit failed the next in one session, then should have flat out died from straight damage twice in one fight with a beholder. He really liked that mimic.
I made this list for CGA's channel that had an article about "the Combat Wheelchair". It's a D&D mod that creates a wheelchair that gets around the whole accessibility issue, by giving the wheelchair the ability to fly, and have combat attachments. The problem with this is, it buffs the character to the point that everyone is going to want their own "whirling wheelchair of death", and risks becoming the focus of the campaign. Anyway, this is TLDR, but here goes: Ten interesting things to do with the chair. These would require mature players, who like to be challenged (ie: aren't using the game as a source of self-validation and ego-affirmation) 1) Magic Chair Jar: The Chair serves as a magic jar, which is activated by speaking (or thinking) the command word within 5' of the chair. When activated, the person seated in the chair has their consciousness transferred inside a psychic dimension linked to the chair A mind housed in the chair, is forced out into the body of the person seated in the chair. Any number of mind switches can take place by playing musical chairs with the chair. 2) The Great Chair Heist: Have a thieves guild burglarize the PC's home and steal the chair, then auction it off on the black market. It turns up at a wealthy gangster's house, where his disabled daughter is now using it. 3) Get Out of the Chair: Have a villain cast "Heat Metal" on the chair 4) Chairs, Chairs Everywheres: Make an entire dungeon of kobolds, in which every kobold is using a combat chair. And a Black Pudding. A Black Pudding in a chair. 5) Dr Evil: Have the PC's arch enemy also be in a more powerful combat chair. At a dramatic moment, have the villain escape certain capture by standing up, and running into a dimension door. He was just faking it, the whole time. 6) Stormbringer on Wheels: The chair operates because it's infused with the spirit of a dead adventurer, demon, or elemental like an efreet or genie. Over time, the spirit begins to haunt the PC and/or attempts to possess them, or take away control of the chair. 7) State's Evidence: Constables in a major city detain the PCs and state that the chair matches the description of a weapon used in the murder of a prominent city official. They'll need to confiscate the chair as evidence, and investigate the PCs as potential suspects. It's possible they're being framed. The PCs must clear their names, and retrieve the chair. 8) The One Chair: the chair is an artifact originally made by the Evil Dark Lord to help him conquer the free peoples of the world. He wants it back, and has dispatched his evil Chair Wights to hunt the PCs down. The PCs must push the chair into the volcano where it was first forged to destroy the dark lord once and for all. 9) The Accursed Chair of Berserk Infantilization: The PC encounters a new and better chair in a treasure hoard. It's actually a cursed item that changes form based on the desires of it's victims. This gold and mithril decorated chair projects an aura that makes NPCs constantly attempt to pamper and dote upon the PC, insisting that they push them around, wait on them hand and foot, and speak to them as if they would a child. Each month the PC accepts this treatment, they lose a point of intelligence, eventually becoming completely helpless. Even worse, while the chair is a +2 vorpal weapon, it has a 5% cumulative chance per combat round of making the user fly into a murderous berserk rage for the remainder of combat, decapitating friend and foe alike. In any case, they will not give up the chair for any reason, unless a remove curse and bless are cast. NOTE: able-bodied PCs sitting in the chair are equally affected by the curse, and will act disabled in order to stay in the chair. 10) Class Conflict: If the chairs are rare items, then when a PC rolls into town on one, have disabled peasants express outrage that "rich" adventurers have access to them, but poor peasant children do not. Have a mob surround the party with torches and pitchforks and chastise them for their "chair privilege". 11 BONUS) The Tomb of Horrible Chairs: an evil demi-lich designs a deathtrap dungeon that is fully wheelchair accessible. In the final battle, as the Lich drinks the PC's souls, he reveals that the whole thing was a lure to bring in more combat wheelchairs to add to his growing collection...
D&D 5e has a big focus on rich character backgrounds from the initial character concept, with the DM encouraged to weave them into the main plotline (with the DM being seen as more of a storyteller now). That means that characters are more than just a bunch of numbers from the start, players are much more invested in them - even if they aren't seen as themselves. They also might have spent a ton(ne) of cash on custom minis or some sort of paid-for artwork. Losing a character is therefore much more impactful to them in real-life terms. In the OSR world we used to roll 3d6 down the line, give them a class, some basic kit and a name, and send them out into the world. If they got to third level we might consider developing some sort of backstory but before then they were kind of throw-away with their history emerging through play.
I thought my ex wife has turned my son into a week dungeon overlord. But when i toured my sons evil lair. And that lair is free of ramps and not wheelchair compliant. I have hope that my son will make a fine dark lord.😊
I've had someone play a cripple for a powerful mage, a character with only like 5 constitution that had trouble doing anything past double moving...and people have lost limbs from battle before to have them later regenerated or replaced at a forge.
One of the coolest characters in fiction is King Nuada, a Gaelic hero who lost his kingship because his arm got mangled, and you had to be physically perfect to be king. But it got replaced with a divine silver limb. The first bionic man.
Back in the late 70s my first few characters were an extension of myself. By characters dies so often we all quickly switched to a mode of we are "driving" a character. We all had five or six rolled up substitutions characters to swap in if our current one got killed. This all predates computer RPGs for the most part so we did not have that input to work from.
Also back in my day, the DM's I played with were, like Gygax himself, very much into complex dungeon design and vicious traps, with role-playing acting like extra flair to the all-important party role of a player's class. There was no way they would change their dungeons based on any ability or disability of a player character. It was up to the players to overcome the challenges they set up however they could, if they could. The bones of many player characters are spread across those labyrinthine hellscapes.
I would be interested to occasionally see that kind of Rogue Legacy disability/pros and cons stuff. For a wheelchair bound character specifically, I can imagine someone creating a particularly intricate wizard characters that moves and flies around like a Dalek, or can use the wheelchair to "sprint" in straight lines easily, but have more difficulty turning. Having a wheel-chair accessible dungeon seems like an odd pandering thing to do just for the sake of it though, especially since people can (and probably already have) done this before. I can imagine making a very humourous campaign where the villain is very patronising, having a dungeon with ramps and friendly inviting things, but dastardly traps under a veneer of a homely accessible environment, but even then the ramps would be merely a piece of the entire thing, not a unique selling point in and of itself. The most interesting thing I can think of doing is having a player/NPC that needs to be brought into a dungeon despite their disabilities, and part of the challenge is the party helping them through, up stairs and past enemies, to go translate some special carving to find treasure, or assemble some portal door or something only they can do. DnDs longevity hinges on this creativity, and players overcoming whatever obstacles the DM makes.
Once played a wizard who rolled around in a fancy magic wheelchair with a bunch of magic assistants. Got to a load of stairs leading up a mountain to the Holy Shrine that would be our next dungeon and described how I magically forced a trio of magic spirits I had at my command to lift my wheelchair and walk it up the stairs. Described in detail as my wizard flogged one of the spirits for nearly dropping him. Best part was, my Wizard didn't even need the wheelchair, could walk just fin.
Putting yourself out into the world to see how you fit with it _vs_ insisting everyone & everything must conform to your notion of how the world should be shaped around you. Yes, two very different approaches.
Why settle for a wheelchair when the in-game universe has magic and/or technology can produce a hoverchair? When you have a hoverchair, EVERYTHING is accessible.
A crippled character can definitely be interesting, but you shouldn't expect the world to be designed with you in mind. You may be forced to climb a ledge with just your arms and crawl on your hands if you want to enter a tomb designed to keep thieves out or keep the mummy within from getting out. Or you could use magic to get around, ride on the wizards tensors floating disc or on a magic carpet or broom. Or get magic healing or restoration to cure the ailment. Getting a competent priest to remove a curse could be a whole story arc in a dnd game.
I started playing D&D when I was a 7 years old (white) kid and my first character was black man, based on Kareem Abdul-Jabbar in Game of Death. There was never this idea that the character was me. I just thought Kareem was cool.
The concept of being disabled in role play is fun and interesting if it actually has an effect on the game I played a character who lost an arm in war and he can’t use two handed weapons or bows as well as any tasks that involved two arms it was really fun to play around that and figure out what to do one armed I was at one point holding a shield protecting my other party members because my sword fell down a sewer it was so fun But if you have a disability without causing you real limitations like a real disability would it’s nothing more than a pretentious fashion choice for your RPG character
I always imagined myself as the actor playing the character. My personal desires and experiences only serve to inspire my portrayal of the character in the game.
Every dungeon is wheelchair accessible because they go DOWN. Anyone in a wheelchair can easily go down a flight of stairs. It's going back up that's the tricky part. And is why anyone in a wheelchair shouldn't be stupid enough to even attempt to dungeon delve. Not having legs disqualifies you from that job.
This is why the alignment system does not accommodate deeply designed characters well but rather were a quick way to make a PC who behaves in a predictable but interesting way. Which leads to the most important part: playing a character who is not you.
My response would be "sure, that sounds like an interesting twist. Just keep in mind that literally nothing in the game-world changes, and that it might kill you.". I run a high-immersion style of game, so there won't be any accomodation beyond pure accident (maybe the villain is a sentient flail snail or something).
I like to play western RPGs multiple times, with different characters I have different conceptions of. My first time through, I tend to play a character who is enough like me that my initial reactions to the game world will be in sync with my decisions, because I'm exploring this game world for the first time. But my second or third time through, I like to come up with ideas for different characters. I've also played Dragon Age: Origins as a female warden who ended up marrying Alistair and becoming queen of Ferelden. That was my second playthrough, and I enjoyed the romance a great deal. Maybe it's because like you, I am also an author, and so I don't think of my characters as "me". But I always try to identify at least one point of connection.
I can understand the power fantasy self insert. What I can't fathom is why would you make your self insert as lame as yourself? Your imagination is your only limit and you can't imagine yourself not in a wheel chair. Part of me thinks this is a publicity stunt to grab attention and no actual cripples asked for this.
Agreed. I'm a guy in my 20s and dude this is so true... I do both. It depends on my mood or the game... But a lot of people do this and it is sometimes not a good thing
I heard that all the official deities of every official D&D world have decreed that every dungeon owner, whether they be a lich, dragon, drow, etc., MUST add wheelchair accessible ramps to ALL their dungeon levels. Failure to comply is a 10,000 gp fine per DAY.
The chair they created was basically an OP thing that made any danger the wheelchair bound person face, become meaningless. Such as it could be created so it ignores all difficult terrain, it provided 3/4ths cover all the time, can cast limited spells, had no hp and had to get three critical hits in a row in the same encounter to just damage it( but seemingly did not stop it from functioning), increases the players AC as well made crits increase by 6, advantage on damage types, can knock up to 4 creatures prone, extra damage per hit, drop enhanced caltrops, even more damage per attack and somehow creates disadvantage if they try to strike back, spider legs that increase the movement to 4. Essentially the thing at that point is OP, stick all that on a breastplate and people would have a conniption fit.
I get the “self insert” style of character and I see that for a lot of new player’s characters especially. This idea though, of seeing elements of one’s self in a character is a big thing for a lot of folks. My worry though is that perfectly creative and interesting ideas will be disregarded or vilified by those exclusively looking for characters and scenarios that they feel “validate” them.
Really good to hear this insight because sometimes it feels like I'm going insane to be surrounded by other millennials who are so self obsessed. It generally betrays an inability to think outside themselves. It's why so many of them are moral police. "This character can't do that because its bad and you shouldn't do that!" Well sure but can't you imagine being that character? But to imagine that, for them, means they have to understand a position they don't have, and that's enough for them to adopt that position. So you cannot make characters that arent self inserts to avoid wrongthink.
I’ve never met a player who wanted their character to be like themselves. However, if a player really wanted their character to be in a wheelchair I think that rather than adapt a dungeon to them, I’d leave it as-is, but mostly hand-wave the accessibility, such as how R2-D2 can get around almost everywhere (desert sand, swamps, forest floor, etc.) in Star Wars, even though he is on wheels. But as with any player character, there will be places or situations where they have difficulties, or may not be able to go without some work. Players would (as always) have to find unusual or magic solutions etc. to overcome some obstacles, the wheelchair character included. But yes, the trend towards playing yourself is interesting, though not new... supposedly Dave Arneson’s Blackmoor campaign began with versions of his real world players winding up in a fantasy world and amassing power and rank there (but of course they moved on to playing fantasy characters soon enough).
I prefer to make the weirdest most off the wall character I can come up with. My goal is to get people to ask me "How the hell did you make that work?"
Wheelchair accessible dungeons: "The only way I can be a hero is if the villain accommodates me."
Thats a racist and transgenderphobic statement.
"hey, stop flying! I can't fly, it's not fair!"
@@MrTuco40 Not to mention villainphobic. Villains have feelings too.
@@SebastienlovesCookieswirlc make the villain wheelchair bound. The players will commit pact-suicide.
The person in a wheelchair in IRL; who had a level 12 Barbarian/Thief who could fuckin' tank and scout! #notyourshield
I guess the Cleric isn’t high enough level to cure himself.
Playing yourself as a character is boring. When I play a game, I want escapism, not reality.
But you ARE a gamer, those people making the stupid decisions are not. They probably have never played RPGs.
@@House_Of_Cards_
“Ma! I got a job at the place where they make D&D!”
“What’s dee en dee?”
“I don’t know, but they hired me, Ma!”
If only there was a word to describe fantastical escapism....
@@erikhermansen3431 ... imagination ...?
@@RobertWilkinsonJKekMaloy less Southern, more hipster
Dungeons in real life were meant to keep people from escaping as they were prisons. I would think that the dungeon masters would make their dungeons as inaccessible and unfriendly as possible.
A better solution would be for the adventurers to find their own solutions to the inaccessibility as part of the challenge if not as a major game objective.
Find planks then set them into ramps, make a floating chair or find out how to brew an elixir that will repair any physical infirmity whether it was sustained years ago or was in place since birth. They could do anything other than disempower a fantasy character and reduce difficulty to match one's real world powerlessness.
Well said
Dungeon in D&D isn't the same thing as real life Dungeons. Its goal is to keep people out so kind of the opposite. It is more home security than anything. I mostly agree but it would be amusing to find ramps for a dungeon because the dungeon master himself is disabled. However doing that for every dungeon would be dumb.
Game dungeons have creatures too big to squeeze in their rooms. Sure the lair can fit some giant monstrosity but how the hell do you shoehorn it through the corridors to fit it. All bosses are ships in a bottle so it's best not to think too hard about it.
@@reptomicus That depends on how you design your dungeons, doesn't it? You're talking about a zoo dungeon there - that's very '80s OSR! ;-) People have been building game dungeons with considerations for proper ecosystems for decades now (though, admittedly, there are some really glaring errors in this regard).
I know, why not just give the wheelchair spider legs instead.
I'm Paul the wheel chair bound tax attorney. I save adventurers from the kingdoms IRS agents by making sure they fill out the correct loot forms and inform them of their deductibles. Go in a dungeon? Are you stupid!?! I make bank chilling in town.
What do you mean I have to pay 20% on jewelry?! This is the legendary Ring of Merlicor! It's one of a kind!
Can we get dungeons with WiFi? I really can't dungeon crawl if I can post to Insta.
play shadowrun or cyberpunk as a livestreaming runner!
@@davidburton9690 brings a whole new meaning to Swatting.
No character death = "everybody gets a trophy". Wonder who gave Millennials that mindset?
If there is no character death, it means there are no consequences, itd get boring i imagine.
Exactly. We weren't enforcing the new trophy policy as adolescents.
My current pc almost dies in every session, I have told my party if he dies I have so many fun plans for them to encounter a new pc and the heart breaking of looting his body
I happen to be an amputee in his low 20's, and I'll preface this by saying I think very differently from other people my age, but part of the fun of DND for me is roleplaying as someone who is not like me. I like being able to do or say things I wouldn't normally do or say in the real world. I think it feeds that creative itch I have and it's a great form of escapism. I don't understand why people would insert themselves wholly into their created characters. What I do, which I think is better, is to take a smaller aspect of myself or a quirk and integrate that into my character. That way, the character can be completely different from me yet almost familiar to me.
I think it’s due to the lack of imagination and as somebody who doesn’t have a disability I would totally Role play as a artificer who built his own medieval wheelchair. Because it would bring interesting story and events and dialogue.
This is another side you reveal - does being "disabled" make you... YOU? There's more to a person than their physical arrangement - you can make a character crafty like yourself rather than disabled like yourself.
I'm not a wheelchair bound but now I have feel like playing one just rubbing it in people face..Just rub my entitlement and smugness thinking I'm better than them lol..
Good reply
@@DVSPress thanks for replying, that's a good point, something I live by is never judge a book by it's cover. Of course my disability is a part of my story, but I'd rather focus on the attributes that have helped me overcome the obstacles in my life. Craftiness is a pretty good one, another one I would wanna use for a character would be tenacity. There's frankly a lot, both positive and negative, such as one of my characters depends on a patron for power the same way I depend on my prosthetics to walk. I think it's something special to explain something complex like a disability in a relatable way and that's what I try to do.
*Wheelchair accessible dungeons* :
/casts cure serious wounds
/casts levitate
/casts polymorph
/casts fly
etc
For real people yes that's how you do it. For people that are divorced from reality and you hate other people That's not how you do it You have to completely change the systems and add a bunch of nonsense that means nothing Like wheelchairs and wheelchair accessible dungeons
CURE WOUNDS NOT WORK FOR CONGENITAL DISABILITIES OR PERMANENT INJURIES.
@@caesar969 You bend the rules one way but you will not do another? Hypocrite
@@caesar969 Pretty sure either Restoration or Greater Restoration does though.
@@krinkrin5982 if you are poor you cannot afford or obtain those spells unless you work your way up in level, so being crippled and not having access to powerful magic is a "reasonable" scenario - a crippled character is quite interesting concept eg Ivar the Boneless in Vikings, even if they are likely to die earlier - I always like to maim my players with disabilities to make their lives more difficult than vanilla
Can you imagine if they kept the guy from James Camerons Avatar was in a wheelchair throughout the entire movie. it would defeat the entire purpose of the freaking film.
People actually complain about that now!
@@DVSPress oh boy😒
@@DVSPress
Nobody wants to be wheelchair-bound.
Nobody.
@@lucascoval828 I can confirm this as someone who ends up in severe pain after standing for more than 30 minutes. (Think standing at attention for six hours, seems rather close painwise.)
I would rather be in an 8 for pain than be in a wheelchair. (And no, I don't usually get to an 8 from standing for half an hour, that generally takes two or more hours.)
LOL! The "purpose" of that film was to do a remake of _Dances with Wolves, Fern Gully, Pocahontas,_ and _A Man Called Horse,_ using CGI.
Do all of the villain's come with sign interpreters for their pre-combat "evil gloat" speeches ?
Yep. Failure to comply is a 10,000 gp per occurrence fine, enforced by the villain's patron deity.
On the bright side, employment is booming for beings who know sign language.
Only gelatinous ooze that have eaten in the past 48 hours.
Or that are saving the bones for later... pesky cloth fibers
The art for newer D&D is so cringe. Got a cookbook for christmas and the "characters" are much diverse such wow. I think what kills it the modern day hairstyles, it just does not fit.
That ugly, one side shaved hair, plaguing fantasy, Sci-Fi and the real world
@@fishperson5390I haven't seen the latest d&d stuff, but that is exactly what came to mind.
@@fishperson5390
Can still be hot on the right character.
@@lucascoval828 There's the female V from the Cyberpunk 2077 promotional art, but she's hot despite of that and not because of that
What turned me off of 5e was the giant-headed mutant halflings. They look like something that would have been thrown into Monster Manual 3 to pad the page count.
"I'm going to create deadly traps to keep you out, but wheelchair access ramps to allow you in. I'm not a monster."
I wonder why Millennials are prone to so this.... I'm a millennial and if I'm playing a moral agency game, I'll do one game as a self insert. If I revisit it, I'll do a saint/asshole run. I never much worried about my own traits though.... Imagine Deus Ex Human Revolution, but instead your an un-augmented slightly overweight 32 year old with a screaming infant and a clogged sink.
I usually run at least once as myself (or rather, the idealized version of myself, it's a game after all), then as someone completely different. Often of the opposite gender, just to see how the diague changes. I often also tend to play characters who are quite amoral or conniving because I like to imagine how someone with the 'outcome justifies the means' attitude would react in the same situation. It's fun, and allows you to consider moral scenarios from different points of view.
They're not, everything he said in this video is basically wrong.
VIRTUE SIGNALLERS are calling for this wheelchair accessible bullshit.
Literally EVERYONE I've seen on youtube and commenting on this nonsense that's ACTUALLY in a wheelchair in real life, thinks this is retarded. The LAST thing they want to do is to have this vast, amazing fantasy world with miraculous healing magic and dragons and spells, put themselves into that world, really immerse themselves, and then put THEMSELVES into a wheelchair.
People with crippling disabilities want to get RID of them, not make up fantasy characters that are still suffering those disabilities. This movement stems from the woke ideology of representation over everything else. Where all that matters is diversity in every aspect, even if the actual thing drops majorly in quality because of it.
People that are actually making characters while themselves being in wheelchairs DON'T want to make crippled characters, they want to be a badass barbarian or a sneaky rogue. Roleplaying a fucking wheelchair is just a NIGHTMARE. And nobody knows that better than people who actually use them in real life.
This entire thing is proposed and supported by people that are NOT in wheelchairs.
What's next. Signs in Braille?
Edit: I forgot about Cuneiform.
I could see braille for a game set in the underdark where captured people would put braille on the walls to communicate with each other while trying to escape their slavery.... oh wait I forgot this is the woke WOTC, Slavery is evil and should not exist in any game!!!!
I've played a character with a walking stick before, House-style, they'd become a warlock explicitly because part of the pact was being able to walk again.
Character's a paraplegic? Play a wizard who never gets off their horse, or play a psion that floats around like a Protoss High Templar everywhere.
There are so many interesting ways to swing a character with a disability that wasting it by making wheelchair-accessible dungeons is a bloody shame.
I once played a halfling wizard who couldn't walk after an unfortunate incident with a rockfall crushed their lower legs. The DM allowed me to have a hireling to whose back the halfling was strapped. Went through quite a few hirelings that way, including ones the wizard had to fire as they ran screaming from the encounter leaving the rest of the party in the lurch. The party got my character's mobility Restored as soon as they could.
For the wizard one. They have a goliath butler who carries them about, due to their small frame the goliath has no issues carrying them about and helping them out.
I sent Elizabeth Olson my fantasy novel involving her and all I got was a restraining order😊
F
The focus on self-inserts also robs people of the experience of roleplaying a character very different to themselves.
I don't do tabletop RPGs anymore, but, for example, when I create different Dark Souls characters, there will be one which is more of a self insert that I explore the game for the first time with (and with a very boring build) and then a slew of other characters (with more focused builds) with very different personalities, and I enjoy playing up to those personalities.
Yeah, one of the things I like about RPGs and MMOs etc is the chance to mix things up and wear someone (or something) else's skin for a while. Then again I'm also a writer on occasion so spending time as a character not myself is familiar to me.
When I first started playing D&D, I brought my at the time best friend with me. We both made dwarves but he played the character like himself. A rude obnoxious loudmouth a******, with an opinion about everything. Needless to say I got invited back he didn't. I've been with that group for over 7 years now LOL
"We did it, minion! Jack thought he could stop us with a door? HA! I was MADE to open doors! There's no stopping us now, minion! Together, we shall free Pandora! I will lead you into battle! I will destroy Handsome Jack with my bare hands! I will --
STAIRS?! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"
Yoda was in a hover chair and used a walking stick, but of course the light side of the force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be...unnatural.
There are ways to make a disabled character possible, like magic, gadgets, magical gadgets. Of course that would defeat the whole point. They don't want a disabled person going into a dungeon, they want a wheelchair going into a dungeon so that everyone can see their big virtue signal.
I tend to homebrew my dungeons anyways.... So WOTC can design their dungeons however they want... If the dungeon is at least partially accessible to wheelchairs I think it should say something about the history of the dungeon.... Maybe the elevator is broken, and the only other way down is through the elevator shaft, of the stairs....
A game where magic is everywhere and literal divine beings lend you their powers, yet you can't imagine god damn levitating wheelchair or any other lazy excuse?
You need WoTC to do it for you?
Levitating? How about greater restoration, or regeneration, or polymorphing someone into a version of themselves with working legs if they were born that way. Are we talking about the same game?
@@Z1gguratVert1go I agree, in a world with magical healing Clerics and Paladins constantly roaming the countryside, your parents wouldn't have drug your crippled butt to the local chapel or shrine?
@@BillRoyMcBill high level adventurers are less than 0.1% of the population, high level NPCs do not have the time or inclination to go round healing commoners and other low borns - they are busy running kingdoms and fighting off demon hordes - magic is supposed to be rare or special, not ubiquitous, and higher level magic is like gold dust - the reason why it is more common in the average D&D game is because the player characters are themselves exceptional and dealing with exceptional situations so bringing themselves into contact with the exceptional - change your perspective to a lowborn peasant in a village, and it is remarkable to witness a 1st lvl healing spell or hold a gold coin - that is the gist of the 1st edition DMG as penned by the Great EGG - getting healed of a disability is just as amazing as it would have been in Christian Europe in the Middle Ages
@@caesar969 You must only play in slow, low magic games, with heavy politics themes...it is 'fantasy', no matter what game you play, it's ok to add some fantasy elements.
@@BillRoyMcBill The one time I played with someone who played a crippled character (the player himself was not a paraplegic or anything of the sort), it was because the DM (who he played with many times before) had a rule in his setting both lorewise and mechanically that if not healed within a certain time, certain injuries and status effects were untreatable by any healing/restoration spells.
But yeah, was a fun campaign. He played a Gnome Wizard who couldn't walk, but having magic gave him creative solutions. And sometimes he'd be carried around on the back of my giant Half-Orc Barbarian during encounters where he couldnt spare the spell slots for spells to help him get around. Eventually he was able to get crab legs from an artificer that let him walk again, but that was later on
Oh I would make a wheelchair accessible dungeon. It would be great, lots of long, winding ramps, lush plants lining the walls. Then, at the very bottom, the boss would wait for you patiently.
Upon his death, the anti magic fields go up, all the ramps turn into stairs, and the greenery starts to burn. Enjoy your timed dungeon escape sequence.
I wish I had a DM like that.
I remember playing D&D with DMs that required you to roll for everything, even your character’s class, gender, and race. So if you wanted to play a male, human warrior but rolled a female, gnome wizard, well that was just too bad, you were playing a female, gnome wizard or you weren’t playing at all. It was sometimes frustrating, but some of my best D&D memories come from those sessions.
That was never in the rules.
Even if Wizards “owns” D&D, there are lots of D&D games. It’s like Kleenex. Not every D&D game has to toe this line.
For the moment, it doesn’t seem like accessibility is a mandate in their youth culture of play (angry Twitter) so I’ll live and let live. They can do their thing over there. I’ll still be playing my D&D and they can try it out when they’re ready.
And anyway, gotta tell ya it’s Gen Z, not so much Millenials
Oh it's both, and it's creeped into Gen X. Also.. Tunnels and Trolls, or older editions of D&D
All I can think of is the Ultimate Xmen where Mr Sinister threw Professor X down a staircase, referring to them as his greatest nemesis.
Hackmaster implemented quirks and flaws perfectly. Tons of disabilities that forced you to play your character with them and gave you some perks asking with those.
If I may bring a good old quote from good old Aristotle:
"But most important of all is the structure of incidents (plot). For Tragedy (literature) is an imitation (mimesis), not of men, but of action and of life, and life consists in action, and its end is a mode of action, not a quality. Now, character determines men's qualities, but it is by their actions that they are happy or the reverse. Dramatic action therefore, is not with a view to the representation of a character: character comes in as a subsidiary to the action. (...) A further proof is, that novices in the art attain to finish the (...) precision of portraiture before they can construct the plot."
While I understand the point of this quote, in context to the video, the quote does lack a key understanding of good fiction. While the action does not 'need' a character, as the world will go 'round, a good story however 'does' need a character that can 'influence' the action. Otherwise the story will feel lacking because the character's actions have no impact the greater actions of the plot. Making the character essentially meaningless to a plot that does not need the character, otherwise.
@@DarkAshenfall Though I could make the point that centuries old tested stories have made their mark in literature where character is almost non present, I would still agree with you that action is better when is portrayed as a natural development of character. BUT, is more important that I defend Aristotle here (calling out a lack of understanding from him shouldn't be done lightly, mate). Better, I let him defend himself:
"As in the structure of the plot, so too in the portraiture of character, the poet (author) should always aim either at the necessary or the probable. Thus a person of a given character should speak or act in a given way by the rule either of necessity or probability, just as this event should follow that by necessary or probable sequence. It is therefore evident that the unraveling of the plot (...) must not be brought about by the Deus ex Machina"
@@victoriaamat5368 Every story, with few exceptions, revolve around a character(s). So, I am not entirely certain what your point is. One of the oldest, the Odyssey, revolves around Odysseus. Without him, there is arguably no story. A story without a character is relegated more to of a tale or a folktale (whatever name best suits the style), rather than a story that can be related to by those listening to it.
My intent was not to say he lacked understanding, simply to say that particular quote lacked a keystone in story making. A plot that drives the character is usually lacking and uninteresting. Whereas a plot driven, to some large degree, by character action is superior. In that it creates investment not only by the character and those around the character, but within the reader as well. As a character is a device meant to serve as someone for the reader to invest in. In many cases, a vessel in which the reader can 'become' apart of the world. Whereas without that investment, the reader might as well be reading a stuffy history book retelling the event from a distance.
My analogies may not be entirely on point, but the key point is that narratives at least partially driven by character agency, create the richer of the two types of stories. Especially in a more modern lens and doubly so, from a D&D perspective.
@@DarkAshenfall I think I might be getting the grasp of what is the reason behind our discussion. I really don't see much of a disagreement now. The whole point behind the quote is that the actions (agency as we now call it) that the character commits are (or should be) the center of the drama (a little redundant there since drama=action). What I got from the quote and was trying to relate to the video was the following: a narrative (in a game, in a novel, etc.) that revolves solely or mainly around certain qualities of character (e.g.: being in a wheel chair, to which Aristotle economically refers simply as "character") and doesn't focus on the actions of such character (hence: "is by their actions that they are made happy") is inferior to the other one.
Maybe a better translation could solve the problem (sorry that the one I first posted was a bit deficient or confusing):
"And while character makes men what they are, it's their actions and experiences that make them happy or the opposite. They do not therefore act to represent character, but character-study is included for the sake of action."
I was totally self inserting myself when I played a kobold paladin of Tyr in Planescape.
The great thing about David is that he avoids taking the cheap outage angle in favor of thoughtful analysis.
GURPS has offered the ability to play even paraplegic characters for as long as I can remember. The devs have never made a big deal about it.
Those people at WotC think they are so progressive and inclusive, while in reality they're just virtue-signalling.
I used to be an adventurer, but then I took an arrow to the knee! No wheelchair accessible dungeons.
+4 vorpal wheelchair of representation
I like to role play as someone else in any games. I’d rather be someone awesome than be my normal self if it’s a game 😆
I guess people used to be able to accept that they are not perfect, and in an escapist game they imagined some character better thanthem and get enjoyment from imagining themselves to be that special. Now everybody has their head filled with how special they are from birth, how could they possibly imagine someone more special?
To be fair, a handicapped kid probably gets even more of this bullshit, because well-meaning idiots think that’s the only way they can put up with the way they are, so they actually believe it.
@@matehavlik4559 true true
All I can think of is that tavern in waterdeep charging extra because it takes three guys to lower your wheelchair down the well into Undermoutain lol.
"Okay, do you want to make an attack with your off-hand?"
"That's my stroke hand!!!"
... this will only work if I can be a gnome engineer and turn my wheelchair into a mass-murdering, multi-dakka, rocket spewing wheelhouse of terror. It also has nitros, three cup holders, chainsaws and a nuke strapped to the back!
Three cup holders! This man is pulling out all the stops!
Another element is that there seems to be this stigma against experiencing "negative" emotions, like sadness and anger. Like something has gone wrong if you feel unapproved feelings.
Have you taken your soma today?
@@jamescollier9196 Isn't that a muscle relaxer?
They get called "Toxic" and anything toxic must now be purged from your life at all costs, and all of society has to restructure itself to accommodate you specifically.
It's this shit that's destroying functional societies.
Did WotC actually ask people in wheelchairs if they wanted this? Somehow I doubt it.
The rules came from someone who is in a wheelchair (Sara Thompson, The Dislocating GM on Twitter). WoTC taken the idea and put it into some stuff. its optional you can use or ignore as you want. For me I like options, do I think I would have wheelchair users in all my games, nope, would I make every dungeon easy for wheelchair users Nope. But its nice to have an option, and the rules totally cover how to handle stairs and the like.
@@Enazel The Combat Wheelchair. Interesting, but raises problematic questions as to some of the magic which can be repurposed for other means. Also, why wouldn't everyone get one, even if just to carry their stuff or hover over obstructed terrain?
www.dicebreaker.com/games/dungeons-and-dragons-5e/news/dnd-5e-combat-wheelchair-rules
@@Enazel Unless you're in anti magic field or have the character squeeze through things but if you point out any criticism of it you're an ableist.
"I'm sorry Xanathar but according to the Ferunians with Disabilities Act your rope bridge does not meet the accessability standard as it denies access to you for proper monster slaying you will need to have a full suspension bridge that is no less than 120" wide to accommodate all adventures. While your at it you might need to up the loghting in here to prevent accidents by people without darkvision."
Because getting to the monster should be easy.😥
There is actually some interesting opportunities to be had by playing a paraplegic character, and a big part of it is precisely how one overcomes or works around them. Having things cater to disabilities in universe defeats the entire purpose of choosing them and makes no sense in a fantasy setting
Played once with a Gnome Wizard who was crippled (in the setting, stuff like that could only be magically healed for a limited time before they became untreatable short of rare divine intervention) and early on often had to ride the back of my huge Half-Orc Barbarian quite a lot. Creative solutions were often required for stuff with him, but it was cool to see what the player came up with. Eventually he got crab legs from an artificer which let him walk again, but that was much later on and it felt *earned*
One does not simply wheel their way into Mordor....
I've been huge on narrative focused d&d since 3e. Taking death off the table doesn't just kill any sense of challenge mechanically, it kills dramatic tension in a lot of ways
If the party has a serious issue with character death, then I'll give them a quest to resurrect dead characters, but i make it something so tedious and annoying that they'll most likely never choose to do it again. Works pretty well from my experience.
DM: After two weeks of searching the jungle, you at long last have reached the lost temple of Bachnar. You stand at the base, staring up the long stairs leading to the entrance at the top in awe. The size of each step indicates the builders must have been at least ogre sized.
Wheelchair Warrior: Wait, stairs? And they’re bigger than normal?
DM: Yes, each step has a rise of about two feet.
WW: Well that’s just great. Someone’s going to have to carry me.
Deformed Druid: Well it won’t be me. My strength is only an 8 due to my severe scoliosis. I’ll be lucky if I can manage on my own.
Double Amputee Barbarian: I only have one arm and I need the other to use my crutch to walk. I can get up the stairs no problem, but I’m not going to be able to carry you.
Deaf Rogue with Arthritis: WHAT!?
Mute Wizard: (signing) I don’t have Still Spell Levitation memorized...
Rogue: WHAT!?
Downs Syndrome Bard: (starts singing an uplifting song that boosts the groups’ ability to hit their foes)
Bipolar Warlock: If he keeps singing like that I swear I’ll kill him myself.
Rogue: WHAT!?
DM: You know what, never mind.
Admittedly, when I first played D&D and the D20 Star Wars RPG, my very first characters were pretty much "me with pointy ears" or "me with a lightsaber." But as I grew as a player and person, I moved away from that. I believe I've noticed similar patterns in newer players. Muh Dungeons of Radical Representation are a microcosm of arrested player development.
I think the real question is...
Do disabled people want D&D to have accessible dungeons?
Or...
Do certain overly sensitive people think that they want that without ever asking them?
The virgin combat wheelchair vs the Chad goblin litter
Alright, you got me. I don’t care what this video is about, that title is a must view!
Same!
I remember old school role playing. Anyone remember when you didn't have skill rolls to lean on. Didn't think to check for a false bottom in the treasure chest, well I guess you don't get that wand of fireballs.
Saw this pop up earlier, blinked, it disappeared, and wasnt sure if it was my imagination or not....
Me as the DM: "No Timmy, you can't use your rolling speed of 15ft to swim through the river"
I just want a game where Im not in debt and lost 20 years to addiction...
I take one look at a tavern scene in D&D, with every conceivable player race, and remark sarcastically, "So where's the kid in the wheelchair?"
WotC: "Hold my pretentious, organic, craft microbrew!"
If a wheelchair can go through then so can my kobold mincart tanks.
Most of the characters I play are self-inserts, for the most part, but I completely understand people who prefer to play as other people. As a DM, those types of characters are the most fun to have in a campaign.
Little do they realize, that now Claptrap has full access to explore......
Thanks for covering bro.
ALso, I had to talk my DM into letting a character die a couple months ago. It had failed a death save, then crit failed the next in one session, then should have flat out died from straight damage twice in one fight with a beholder. He really liked that mimic.
So you have to be crippled even in your own imagination, that sucks.
Imagine this mindset plastered onto Jude Law's character in Gattaca.. it's friggin depressing.
I wonder how a person without a disability would be viewed if they played a disabled character.
I made this list for CGA's channel that had an article about "the Combat Wheelchair". It's a D&D mod that creates a wheelchair that gets around the whole accessibility issue, by giving the wheelchair the ability to fly, and have combat attachments. The problem with this is, it buffs the character to the point that everyone is going to want their own "whirling wheelchair of death", and risks becoming the focus of the campaign. Anyway, this is TLDR, but here goes:
Ten interesting things to do with the chair. These would require mature players, who like to be challenged (ie: aren't using the game as a source of self-validation and ego-affirmation)
1) Magic Chair Jar: The Chair serves as a magic jar, which is activated by speaking (or thinking) the command word within 5' of the chair. When activated, the person seated in the chair has their consciousness transferred inside a psychic dimension linked to the chair A mind housed in the chair, is forced out into the body of the person seated in the chair. Any number of mind switches can take place by playing musical chairs with the chair.
2) The Great Chair Heist: Have a thieves guild burglarize the PC's home and steal the chair, then auction it off on the black market. It turns up at a wealthy gangster's house, where his disabled daughter is now using it.
3) Get Out of the Chair: Have a villain cast "Heat Metal" on the chair
4) Chairs, Chairs Everywheres: Make an entire dungeon of kobolds, in which every kobold is using a combat chair. And a Black Pudding. A Black Pudding in a chair.
5) Dr Evil: Have the PC's arch enemy also be in a more powerful combat chair. At a dramatic moment, have the villain escape certain capture by standing up, and running into a dimension door. He was just faking it, the whole time.
6) Stormbringer on Wheels: The chair operates because it's infused with the spirit of a dead adventurer, demon, or elemental like an efreet or genie. Over time, the spirit begins to haunt the PC and/or attempts to possess them, or take away control of the chair.
7) State's Evidence: Constables in a major city detain the PCs and state that the chair matches the description of a weapon used in the murder of a prominent city official. They'll need to confiscate the chair as evidence, and investigate the PCs as potential suspects. It's possible they're being framed. The PCs must clear their names, and retrieve the chair.
8) The One Chair: the chair is an artifact originally made by the Evil Dark Lord to help him conquer the free peoples of the world. He wants it back, and has dispatched his evil Chair Wights to hunt the PCs down. The PCs must push the chair into the volcano where it was first forged to destroy the dark lord once and for all.
9) The Accursed Chair of Berserk Infantilization: The PC encounters a new and better chair in a treasure hoard. It's actually a cursed item that changes form based on the desires of it's victims. This gold and mithril decorated chair projects an aura that makes NPCs constantly attempt to pamper and dote upon the PC, insisting that they push them around, wait on them hand and foot, and speak to them as if they would a child. Each month the PC accepts this treatment, they lose a point of intelligence, eventually becoming completely helpless. Even worse, while the chair is a +2 vorpal weapon, it has a 5% cumulative chance per combat round of making the user fly into a murderous berserk rage for the remainder of combat, decapitating friend and foe alike. In any case, they will not give up the chair for any reason, unless a remove curse and bless are cast. NOTE: able-bodied PCs sitting in the chair are equally affected by the curse, and will act disabled in order to stay in the chair.
10) Class Conflict: If the chairs are rare items, then when a PC rolls into town on one, have disabled peasants express outrage that "rich" adventurers have access to them, but poor peasant children do not. Have a mob surround the party with torches and pitchforks and chastise them for their "chair privilege".
11 BONUS) The Tomb of Horrible Chairs: an evil demi-lich designs a deathtrap dungeon that is fully wheelchair accessible. In the final battle, as the Lich drinks the PC's souls, he reveals that the whole thing was a lure to bring in more combat wheelchairs to add to his growing collection...
D&D 5e has a big focus on rich character backgrounds from the initial character concept, with the DM encouraged to weave them into the main plotline (with the DM being seen as more of a storyteller now). That means that characters are more than just a bunch of numbers from the start, players are much more invested in them - even if they aren't seen as themselves. They also might have spent a ton(ne) of cash on custom minis or some sort of paid-for artwork. Losing a character is therefore much more impactful to them in real-life terms. In the OSR world we used to roll 3d6 down the line, give them a class, some basic kit and a name, and send them out into the world. If they got to third level we might consider developing some sort of backstory but before then they were kind of throw-away with their history emerging through play.
I thought my ex wife has turned my son into a week dungeon overlord. But when i toured my sons evil lair. And that lair is free of ramps and not wheelchair compliant. I have hope that my son will make a fine dark lord.😊
I've had someone play a cripple for a powerful mage, a character with only like 5 constitution that had trouble doing anything past double moving...and people have lost limbs from battle before to have them later regenerated or replaced at a forge.
One of the coolest characters in fiction is King Nuada, a Gaelic hero who lost his kingship because his arm got mangled, and you had to be physically perfect to be king. But it got replaced with a divine silver limb. The first bionic man.
No deserts, no swamps, no mountains, ocean adventures are out...
"Todd, this is too limiting. Create something else."
If you played Traveller half your characters died during the creation process.
DM: "You find a scroll of restore legs to full functionality. Now you can access the dungeon"
Back in the late 70s my first few characters were an extension of myself. By characters dies so often we all quickly switched to a mode of we are "driving" a character. We all had five or six rolled up substitutions characters to swap in if our current one got killed. This all predates computer RPGs for the most part so we did not have that input to work from.
Like spells that can fix your legs don't exist and evil overlord actually care for you
Also back in my day, the DM's I played with were, like Gygax himself, very much into complex dungeon design and vicious traps, with role-playing acting like extra flair to the all-important party role of a player's class. There was no way they would change their dungeons based on any ability or disability of a player character. It was up to the players to overcome the challenges they set up however they could, if they could. The bones of many player characters are spread across those labyrinthine hellscapes.
I would be interested to occasionally see that kind of Rogue Legacy disability/pros and cons stuff. For a wheelchair bound character specifically, I can imagine someone creating a particularly intricate wizard characters that moves and flies around like a Dalek, or can use the wheelchair to "sprint" in straight lines easily, but have more difficulty turning. Having a wheel-chair accessible dungeon seems like an odd pandering thing to do just for the sake of it though, especially since people can (and probably already have) done this before.
I can imagine making a very humourous campaign where the villain is very patronising, having a dungeon with ramps and friendly inviting things, but dastardly traps under a veneer of a homely accessible environment, but even then the ramps would be merely a piece of the entire thing, not a unique selling point in and of itself. The most interesting thing I can think of doing is having a player/NPC that needs to be brought into a dungeon despite their disabilities, and part of the challenge is the party helping them through, up stairs and past enemies, to go translate some special carving to find treasure, or assemble some portal door or something only they can do. DnDs longevity hinges on this creativity, and players overcoming whatever obstacles the DM makes.
Once played a wizard who rolled around in a fancy magic wheelchair with a bunch of magic assistants.
Got to a load of stairs leading up a mountain to the Holy Shrine that would be our next dungeon and described how I magically forced a trio of magic spirits I had at my command to lift my wheelchair and walk it up the stairs.
Described in detail as my wizard flogged one of the spirits for nearly dropping him.
Best part was, my Wizard didn't even need the wheelchair, could walk just fin.
Putting yourself out into the world to see how you fit with it _vs_ insisting everyone & everything must conform to your notion of how the world should be shaped around you. Yes, two very different approaches.
Why settle for a wheelchair when the in-game universe has magic and/or technology can produce a hoverchair? When you have a hoverchair, EVERYTHING is accessible.
A crippled character can definitely be interesting, but you shouldn't expect the world to be designed with you in mind. You may be forced to climb a ledge with just your arms and crawl on your hands if you want to enter a tomb designed to keep thieves out or keep the mummy within from getting out. Or you could use magic to get around, ride on the wizards tensors floating disc or on a magic carpet or broom. Or get magic healing or restoration to cure the ailment. Getting a competent priest to remove a curse could be a whole story arc in a dnd game.
How silly.
I started playing D&D when I was a 7 years old (white) kid and my first character was black man, based on Kareem Abdul-Jabbar in Game of Death. There was never this idea that the character was me. I just thought Kareem was cool.
The concept of being disabled in role play is fun and interesting if it actually has an effect on the game
I played a character who lost an arm in war and he can’t use two handed weapons or bows as well as any tasks that involved two arms it was really fun to play around that and figure out what to do one armed
I was at one point holding a shield protecting my other party members because my sword fell down a sewer it was so fun
But if you have a disability without causing you real limitations like a real disability would it’s nothing more than a pretentious fashion choice for your RPG character
hope they implement this for Skate 4
I always imagined myself as the actor playing the character. My personal desires and experiences only serve to inspire my portrayal of the character in the game.
Why would a villain make their lair MORE accessible to strangers?
He's just a... rittle ronery
Every dungeon is wheelchair accessible because they go DOWN. Anyone in a wheelchair can easily go down a flight of stairs.
It's going back up that's the tricky part. And is why anyone in a wheelchair shouldn't be stupid enough to even attempt to dungeon delve. Not having legs disqualifies you from that job.
I've heard the villian was disabled and it was for them.
Remember Handyman from the show in living color.
This is why the alignment system does not accommodate deeply designed characters well but rather were a quick way to make a PC who behaves in a predictable but interesting way. Which leads to the most important part: playing a character who is not you.
My response would be "sure, that sounds like an interesting twist. Just keep in mind that literally nothing in the game-world changes, and that it might kill you.".
I run a high-immersion style of game, so there won't be any accomodation beyond pure accident (maybe the villain is a sentient flail snail or something).
Player death is important, it needs to be a real threat, but it doesn’t need to be something that happens often.
I've been gaming with half of my group since 79 the other half are millennials. The entire group finds this cringeworthy.
I like to play western RPGs multiple times, with different characters I have different conceptions of. My first time through, I tend to play a character who is enough like me that my initial reactions to the game world will be in sync with my decisions, because I'm exploring this game world for the first time. But my second or third time through, I like to come up with ideas for different characters. I've also played Dragon Age: Origins as a female warden who ended up marrying Alistair and becoming queen of Ferelden. That was my second playthrough, and I enjoyed the romance a great deal. Maybe it's because like you, I am also an author, and so I don't think of my characters as "me". But I always try to identify at least one point of connection.
This is the kind of things that made me go full OSR... Never looked back and it's all good
I can understand the power fantasy self insert. What I can't fathom is why would you make your self insert as lame as yourself? Your imagination is your only limit and you can't imagine yourself not in a wheel chair. Part of me thinks this is a publicity stunt to grab attention and no actual cripples asked for this.
Video games have wrecked a lot of players. Always after a constant power up and having to be self insert. Good video
Agreed. I'm a guy in my 20s and dude this is so true... I do both. It depends on my mood or the game... But a lot of people do this and it is sometimes not a good thing
I used to run a larp and had to actually design wheelchair accessible dungeons.
I heard that all the official deities of every official D&D world have decreed that every dungeon owner, whether they be a lich, dragon, drow, etc., MUST add wheelchair accessible ramps to ALL their dungeon levels.
Failure to comply is a 10,000 gp fine per DAY.
If anyone has played sly cooper 3. A wheelchair adventurer can work, but their chair has to be like an dope ass gadget.
The chair they created was basically an OP thing that made any danger the wheelchair bound person face, become meaningless. Such as it could be created so it ignores all difficult terrain, it provided 3/4ths cover all the time, can cast limited spells, had no hp and had to get three critical hits in a row in the same encounter to just damage it( but seemingly did not stop it from functioning), increases the players AC as well made crits increase by 6, advantage on damage types, can knock up to 4 creatures prone, extra damage per hit, drop enhanced caltrops, even more damage per attack and somehow creates disadvantage if they try to strike back, spider legs that increase the movement to 4. Essentially the thing at that point is OP, stick all that on a breastplate and people would have a conniption fit.
I usually make idealized self inserts. I like being me, but it would also be cool if I could bench press a bus.
I get the “self insert” style of character and I see that for a lot of new player’s characters especially. This idea though, of seeing elements of one’s self in a character is a big thing for a lot of folks. My worry though is that perfectly creative and interesting ideas will be disregarded or vilified by those exclusively looking for characters and scenarios that they feel “validate” them.
Really good to hear this insight because sometimes it feels like I'm going insane to be surrounded by other millennials who are so self obsessed.
It generally betrays an inability to think outside themselves. It's why so many of them are moral police.
"This character can't do that because its bad and you shouldn't do that!"
Well sure but can't you imagine being that character?
But to imagine that, for them, means they have to understand a position they don't have, and that's enough for them to adopt that position.
So you cannot make characters that arent self inserts to avoid wrongthink.
I’ve never met a player who wanted their character to be like themselves. However, if a player really wanted their character to be in a wheelchair I think that rather than adapt a dungeon to them, I’d leave it as-is, but mostly hand-wave the accessibility, such as how R2-D2 can get around almost everywhere (desert sand, swamps, forest floor, etc.) in Star Wars, even though he is on wheels.
But as with any player character, there will be places or situations where they have difficulties, or may not be able to go without some work. Players would (as always) have to find unusual or magic solutions etc. to overcome some obstacles, the wheelchair character included.
But yes, the trend towards playing yourself is interesting, though not new... supposedly Dave Arneson’s Blackmoor campaign began with versions of his real world players winding up in a fantasy world and amassing power and rank there (but of course they moved on to playing fantasy characters soon enough).
Well, why not.
Have regeneration spells and rings been removed from DnD?
I prefer to make the weirdest most off the wall character I can come up with.
My goal is to get people to ask me "How the hell did you make that work?"