Nice video on one of my favorite swords. As someone who reviewed this sword back in 2019, I can say that the fact you can't extend your finger past the guard is one of my favorite things about training with it. Simply put, the trigger grip as you call it is something that popped up in modern times and it's something of a bad habit in Chinese swordsmanship these days. It's never a good idea to extend your finger past the very thing meant to protect it from the blade in the first place. I do get that it makes the sword easier to control, and in fact in Western swordsmanship swordsman did this all the time which is why you end up with the rather complex looking guards that you see on side swords and rapiers, but that's just it. Western swordsman were putting their fingers past the simple guards, so they had to make another guard to go over the guard that they were putting their finger past. The grip that you're ending up having to use on this particular sword is pretty much the grip you should be using in the first place. You don't want to choke up on it either, rather give enough space below the handguard so that your index finger can comfortably extend there. Granted, I do realize that I'm somebody with mediocre skill giving tips on how to hold this sword, but I've had the type of grip to be used with these swords hammered into my head before I even owned a han jian. :P
Thanks so much!!! Grip makes a world of difference! I was brought up with the extended finger method, like you said it allows for easier control. However, I've never done the trigger finger grip. It's something I've only recently noticed in demonstrations and tournaments, and particularly in wushu and contemporary styles.
@@SifuKuttel Please forgive me for messing up. When I said "trigger grip", I mean to say to extended finger grip. That's the one that's more of a bad habit. The trigger type grip isn't really bad... as long as it stays behind the handguard. It's when it's used to go over the handguard that it's problematic. Again, I understand why people do it, but in the context of actual sword fighting, it's probably not a good idea.
@@Swordsage I've been thinking about the grip a lot lately, especially as to how the extended finger grip became the norm for modern swordplay. I feel like there were a number of contributing factors (standardization, exclusive forms practice, and rare dueling or fencing drills if at all) that lead to the use of lighter swords and more emphasis on posture than combat efficacy. I've been lucky to have the opportunity to work with the Han Jian, and I personally feel like the grip keeping the finger behind the guard is the way to go, and I know it'll ruffle a lot of feathers, especially when it comes to teaching in alignment with the federation I belong to... we'll see how it goes 😅
There are some that surmised that the flat pommel is used to assist in the stab. Let's say you have stabbed an unlucky bloke, by placing your palm over the flat surface, it would assist in driving the blade even deeper. On a sidenote, Han-era weapons are notorious for having the 'problem' of 'overpenetration'. The Han-era pike due to its build quality & shape is infamous for being capable of running cleanly through multiple fully-armoured men.
In the past I've been taught the forefinger on the guard, but my master told me this is not traditional because for a stable grip, your fingers need to be all on the grip itself. Another reason he said is because the finger on the guard also defeats the point of having a guard, sort of. If opponents blade slides to the guard, it could nick your finger which would be very bad. Now my wrist/forearm flexibility isn't at the point where I can ONLY grip the grip itself, and I need to let some fingers go. I'm I think unusually inflexible, so I thought only I had this issue and everyone else pretty much used the gripping all fingers on the grip, but I guess not?
Probably my favorite jian, despite our forms being built for more modern jian- I can play the forms with it just fine, thanks to how well the hilt indexes. I've had no issues with wrapping, but I do get what you mean about it feeling "different" during stirring and other wrist movements. PS - The "trigger grip" makes me sweat every time I see it. 😬
Han jian is the last practical sword for battlefield , that's why it's a longer design and can be used with two hands , after that , sword only used for self defense , the sword here I referred to is jian , dao became the most common sidearm for the military after han jian
If you hadn't linked to Matt Easton at Scholagladiatoria, I would have recommended him. He's done quite a number of excellent reviews on LK Chen swords. And he's a great source for info on historical bladed weapons of all types, as I'm sure you know.
Another thought on the pummel cap. From what I’ve gathered, those scabbard are/were well made and thick…Thus, it wasn’t out of the question it can be used as a parrying tool. Now, if the chance presented itself, you can bet you can smack someone’s head off with that big, thick pummel cap!
Is the “trigger finger” thing authentic? I just can not imagine soldiers going to battle would chance losing that finger. Could it just have been a bad habit someone had and others copied it? I’ve used swords over 50 years and never saw this or have done this. The sword is absolutely beautiful and I believe an actual copy.
Yes, the trigger finger over the guard has become a popular grip for many Wushu practitioners. Since they are not fighting anyone, and wushu swords are not sharp, there's no danger in hooking over the top. Even though I am not a fan of the grip, I find it to be an interesting evolution if you ask me.
@@SifuKuttel thank for your response to my “thoughts”. For many reasons I am a purist as snobby as that sounds especially in the martial arts. I believe then that people should be told exactly what you explained to me. For example One exercise I do is Eight Pieces of Brocade. I happened to watch a person teach it a few weeks ago. She was VERY believable in her video but did the exercises wrong in several parts. It was very upsetting to me because she even said she liked to do some parts her way with out explaining the original. All Gigong is physically done in a very specific way for a very specific effect on the body. The way she taught it was at best a stretch. In all the comments people were saying how wonderful she was etc etc. she didn’t even go into the history of who developed it and why. It was watered down and for real Gigong benefit, useless. Anyway thank you again 🙏
@@johnemmons9087 The same can be said about Tai Chi. There have been generations of deviation to the point that even on the simplest level of being active and mobile is compromised.
Nice sword and review. I have the Cloudhammer version, which shares the same hardware, with a blade of sx105v steel. Great style of sword, very fun to cut with
Thanks! I might have the chance to try the Cloudhammer coming up, which would be cool to see the similarities between the two. When it comes down to this sword from LK Chen, even after my initial review and this video, I am still very much impressed with the sword!!!
@@SifuKuttel good to hear! LK Chen makes some very cool stuff. I didn't catch in the video, what does this weigh? The Cloudhammer one measures 549g in hand
@@KF1 I know you didn't ask me, but screw it I'm answering anyway. He has it stated in the description- Sword only weight: approx. 795 g (1 lb. 12 oz). Kult of Athena seems to think it weighs less @ 1 lb. 10 oz. I'm not sure if yours is so much lighter because of different dimensions or if your jian has those deep double fullers which lighten it up quite a bit. I have one like that and it's a tad on the whippy side, whereas the diamond cross section is much more rigid. Both great, just a slightly different feel. I have handled this sword and was incredibly impressed with everything about it. I sing LK Chen's praises every chance I get. I too ended up with a Cloudhammer though, but that's just because I really wanted to see that S5 shock steel and the dimensions of the one I got was about perfectly a longsword with a long grip (which is what I was originally after, then I saw those Han Jian and was smitten). I got the last one made like that and I know I can go back and get a Flying Phoenix for years to come, if I decide I regret not having one. It is genuinely a master crafted tool of death in its incredibly elegant simplicity. I am going to pick up a Scarlet Sunrise from LK Chen (Kuttel also reviewed) and that one is a diamond cross section with a much more similar weight to what you have from Cloudhammer. It's very rapier-like, so it can cut surprisingly well, but you probably won't be taking anyone's arm off with it unless you are a true master perhaps (and definitely psychotic). I've never seen anyone bother using it on tatami but it executes bottles with ease. It seems to have served a similar purpose to the rapier for the time; a civilian sidearm for aristocracy. Really fascinating how much of these Chinese period weapons mirror similar times in Europe. It shows you there is nothing new, just reinventions of the same thing that worked. For example, supposedly legs evolved and went extinct several times in Earth's history. All existence is full of mystery and wonder. But enough of my bullshit. Best wishes to you.
I've learned sword in Choy Li Fut kung fu, Yang Tai Chi Chuan, and a little bit of Wudang from the Kuo Chi-Feng lineage. I prefer to practice Wudang sword with this particular sword, it just feels the most natural. Unfortunately I don't know any schools in Belgium, but if you are interested in an online course, I'd suggest checking out Laoshi Scott M. Rodell's program. He's got an entire vault of information that continues to add to every week. www.grtc.org/
It took a little over a month, but I think it can vary depending on how busy the workshop is. You can always contact them to check on the status of your order, they are very responsive 👍
lkchensword.com/flying-phoenix But take a look around the site if you can, there's a quite a few different swords available. LK tends to release new products all the time!
Yes I have! Although it is something I rarely post about, I do traditional Lion Dancing so it's not as exciting as the high jongs that you see in competitions today.
Not really, I have a couple of digital downloads like Double Daggers Form, and there is a Sword program in the works, but I will eventually have an entire online program for learning kung fu on my website.
Hi 泥菩萨, I understand your skepticism when the review doesn't have many negative things to say. However, there was no exchange for a good review as you are suggesting. I'm sure you've seen many other reviews of LK Chen swords at this point and as well noticed that they are also very positive. I filmed this review after two weeks of working with the sword. Now, it has been almost two months since it arrived and I still use it exclusively. It has held up nicely to a couple hours a day of work, and although now the grip is getting a bit roughed up and faded from friction, oil and sweat, and there's a scuff on the blade from a poorly executed cut, my views on this sword remain the same... It's excellent. I am also pretty sure that saying this has not changed your skepticism, so if you truly want to see if it's as good as everyone's been saying, pick one up for yourself. You can see first hand that it is actually a quality sword.
For posterity (anyone else who may see this in the future and cause them to question), as of the time of this writing, LK Chen's Flying Phoenix is amazing. I pray they maintain the quality to price (ie, value proposition) they currently meet. I purchased full retail (not even a sale or anything) and I was incredibly impressed with the value. I can't give LK Chen enough props.
Nice video on one of my favorite swords.
As someone who reviewed this sword back in 2019, I can say that the fact you can't extend your finger past the guard is one of my favorite things about training with it. Simply put, the trigger grip as you call it is something that popped up in modern times and it's something of a bad habit in Chinese swordsmanship these days. It's never a good idea to extend your finger past the very thing meant to protect it from the blade in the first place. I do get that it makes the sword easier to control, and in fact in Western swordsmanship swordsman did this all the time which is why you end up with the rather complex looking guards that you see on side swords and rapiers, but that's just it. Western swordsman were putting their fingers past the simple guards, so they had to make another guard to go over the guard that they were putting their finger past. The grip that you're ending up having to use on this particular sword is pretty much the grip you should be using in the first place. You don't want to choke up on it either, rather give enough space below the handguard so that your index finger can comfortably extend there.
Granted, I do realize that I'm somebody with mediocre skill giving tips on how to hold this sword, but I've had the type of grip to be used with these swords hammered into my head before I even owned a han jian. :P
Thanks so much!!!
Grip makes a world of difference! I was brought up with the extended finger method, like you said it allows for easier control. However, I've never done the trigger finger grip. It's something I've only recently noticed in demonstrations and tournaments, and particularly in wushu and contemporary styles.
@@SifuKuttel Please forgive me for messing up. When I said "trigger grip", I mean to say to extended finger grip. That's the one that's more of a bad habit. The trigger type grip isn't really bad... as long as it stays behind the handguard. It's when it's used to go over the handguard that it's problematic. Again, I understand why people do it, but in the context of actual sword fighting, it's probably not a good idea.
@@Swordsage I agree with you 100%
@@Swordsage I've been thinking about the grip a lot lately, especially as to how the extended finger grip became the norm for modern swordplay. I feel like there were a number of contributing factors (standardization, exclusive forms practice, and rare dueling or fencing drills if at all) that lead to the use of lighter swords and more emphasis on posture than combat efficacy. I've been lucky to have the opportunity to work with the Han Jian, and I personally feel like the grip keeping the finger behind the guard is the way to go, and I know it'll ruffle a lot of feathers, especially when it comes to teaching in alignment with the federation I belong to... we'll see how it goes 😅
My Sifu will not allow the fingers to be extended beyond the guard at any time.
There are some that surmised that the flat pommel is used to assist in the stab.
Let's say you have stabbed an unlucky bloke, by placing your palm over the flat surface, it would assist in driving the blade even deeper.
On a sidenote, Han-era weapons are notorious for having the 'problem' of 'overpenetration'.
The Han-era pike due to its build quality & shape is infamous for being capable of running cleanly through multiple fully-armoured men.
Sifu, the jian behind you is fascinating as well.
In the past I've been taught the forefinger on the guard, but my master told me this is not traditional because for a stable grip, your fingers need to be all on the grip itself. Another reason he said is because the finger on the guard also defeats the point of having a guard, sort of. If opponents blade slides to the guard, it could nick your finger which would be very bad.
Now my wrist/forearm flexibility isn't at the point where I can ONLY grip the grip itself, and I need to let some fingers go. I'm I think unusually inflexible, so I thought only I had this issue and everyone else pretty much used the gripping all fingers on the grip, but I guess not?
Probably my favorite jian, despite our forms being built for more modern jian- I can play the forms with it just fine, thanks to how well the hilt indexes.
I've had no issues with wrapping, but I do get what you mean about it feeling "different" during stirring and other wrist movements.
PS - The "trigger grip" makes me sweat every time I see it. 😬
Han jian is the last practical sword for battlefield , that's why it's a longer design and can be used with two hands , after that , sword only used for self defense , the sword here I referred to is jian , dao became the most common sidearm for the military after han jian
If you hadn't linked to Matt Easton at Scholagladiatoria, I would have recommended him. He's done quite a number of excellent reviews on LK Chen swords. And he's a great source for info on historical bladed weapons of all types, as I'm sure you know.
Another thought on the pummel cap. From what I’ve gathered, those scabbard are/were well made and thick…Thus, it wasn’t out of the question it can be used as a parrying tool. Now, if the chance presented itself, you can bet you can smack someone’s head off with that big, thick pummel cap!
Ha! That’s very true!!! And if you don’t knock their head off, you leave a really cool looking bruise 😅
Is the “trigger finger” thing authentic? I just can not imagine soldiers going to battle would chance losing that finger. Could it just have been a bad habit someone had and others copied it?
I’ve used swords over 50 years and never saw this or have done this.
The sword is absolutely beautiful and I believe an actual copy.
Yes, the trigger finger over the guard has become a popular grip for many Wushu practitioners. Since they are not fighting anyone, and wushu swords are not sharp, there's no danger in hooking over the top. Even though I am not a fan of the grip, I find it to be an interesting evolution if you ask me.
@@SifuKuttel thank for your response to my “thoughts”. For many reasons I am a purist as snobby as that sounds especially in the martial arts. I believe then that people should be told exactly what you explained to me.
For example One exercise I do is Eight Pieces of Brocade. I happened to watch a person teach it a few weeks ago. She was VERY believable in her video but did the exercises wrong in several parts. It was very upsetting to me because she even said she liked to do some parts her way with out explaining the original. All Gigong is physically done in a very specific way for a very specific effect on the body. The way she taught it was at best a stretch. In all the comments people were saying how wonderful she was etc etc. she didn’t even go into the history of who developed it and why.
It was watered down and for real Gigong benefit, useless. Anyway thank you again 🙏
@@johnemmons9087 The same can be said about Tai Chi. There have been generations of deviation to the point that even on the simplest level of being active and mobile is compromised.
Nice sword and review. I have the Cloudhammer version, which shares the same hardware, with a blade of sx105v steel. Great style of sword, very fun to cut with
Thanks! I might have the chance to try the Cloudhammer coming up, which would be cool to see the similarities between the two. When it comes down to this sword from LK Chen, even after my initial review and this video, I am still very much impressed with the sword!!!
@@SifuKuttel good to hear! LK Chen makes some very cool stuff. I didn't catch in the video, what does this weigh? The Cloudhammer one measures 549g in hand
@@KF1 I know you didn't ask me, but screw it I'm answering anyway. He has it stated in the description-
Sword only weight: approx. 795 g (1 lb. 12 oz). Kult of Athena seems to think it weighs less @ 1 lb. 10 oz.
I'm not sure if yours is so much lighter because of different dimensions or if your jian has those deep double fullers which lighten it up quite a bit. I have one like that and it's a tad on the whippy side, whereas the diamond cross section is much more rigid. Both great, just a slightly different feel.
I have handled this sword and was incredibly impressed with everything about it. I sing LK Chen's praises every chance I get. I too ended up with a Cloudhammer though, but that's just because I really wanted to see that S5 shock steel and the dimensions of the one I got was about perfectly a longsword with a long grip (which is what I was originally after, then I saw those Han Jian and was smitten). I got the last one made like that and I know I can go back and get a Flying Phoenix for years to come, if I decide I regret not having one. It is genuinely a master crafted tool of death in its incredibly elegant simplicity.
I am going to pick up a Scarlet Sunrise from LK Chen (Kuttel also reviewed) and that one is a diamond cross section with a much more similar weight to what you have from Cloudhammer. It's very rapier-like, so it can cut surprisingly well, but you probably won't be taking anyone's arm off with it unless you are a true master perhaps (and definitely psychotic). I've never seen anyone bother using it on tatami but it executes bottles with ease.
It seems to have served a similar purpose to the rapier for the time; a civilian sidearm for aristocracy. Really fascinating how much of these Chinese period weapons mirror similar times in Europe. It shows you there is nothing new, just reinventions of the same thing that worked. For example, supposedly legs evolved and went extinct several times in Earth's history. All existence is full of mystery and wonder. But enough of my bullshit. Best wishes to you.
Bonjour Sifu 🙏🏼
Ah! c’est beau 🤩
Merci pour ces explications si
intéressantes 🙏🏼☯️
Bonne soirée
Merci Sifu! 🙏🙏🙏 Bonnie soirée
Nice review! What’s the name of the style of swordmanship that you practice? Do you know if there are any schools in Belgium?
I've learned sword in Choy Li Fut kung fu, Yang Tai Chi Chuan, and a little bit of Wudang from the Kuo Chi-Feng lineage. I prefer to practice Wudang sword with this particular sword, it just feels the most natural. Unfortunately I don't know any schools in Belgium, but if you are interested in an online course, I'd suggest checking out Laoshi Scott M. Rodell's program. He's got an entire vault of information that continues to add to every week.
www.grtc.org/
Looks pretty sweet! Do you have plans to release a form video or anything?
I sure do! Later this week actually :D
How long did it take for them to make your sword?
It took a little over a month, but I think it can vary depending on how busy the workshop is. You can always contact them to check on the status of your order, they are very responsive 👍
Hi sifu. Where can I find this sword to purchase?
lkchensword.com/flying-phoenix
But take a look around the site if you can, there's a quite a few different swords available. LK tends to release new products all the time!
Thanks sifu!
dear sifu kuttel may i ask if you have ever done lion dancing?
Yes I have! Although it is something I rarely post about, I do traditional Lion Dancing so it's not as exciting as the high jongs that you see in competitions today.
@@SifuKuttel that is cool i would like to go and do liondacing but there is no school near whear i live
Hello Sifu!
Where can I buy martial art weapons , safe and high quality?
Can you give me some advice, please?
Thank you so much !
🙏
www.kungfudirect.com www.dragonsports.eu www.tigerclaw.com and for this sword, and more swords like this www.lkchensword.com
@@SifuKuttel Thank you Sifu !
Do you have any DVDs on Kim fu
Not really, I have a couple of digital downloads like Double Daggers Form, and there is a Sword program in the works, but I will eventually have an entire online program for learning kung fu on my website.
Nice ..love a great sword 👍🏾
Wrap with handle with purpleheart armoury grip tape
That’s awesome! I will definitely order some, thanks for the advice!!!
Ive recently subbed to your channel
$520 for the least expensive option.
Did you mention that LK Chen gave the sword to you for free in exchange for a good review?
Hi 泥菩萨, I understand your skepticism when the review doesn't have many negative things to say. However, there was no exchange for a good review as you are suggesting. I'm sure you've seen many other reviews of LK Chen swords at this point and as well noticed that they are also very positive.
I filmed this review after two weeks of working with the sword. Now, it has been almost two months since it arrived and I still use it exclusively. It has held up nicely to a couple hours a day of work, and although now the grip is getting a bit roughed up and faded from friction, oil and sweat, and there's a scuff on the blade from a poorly executed cut, my views on this sword remain the same... It's excellent.
I am also pretty sure that saying this has not changed your skepticism, so if you truly want to see if it's as good as everyone's been saying, pick one up for yourself. You can see first hand that it is actually a quality sword.
For posterity (anyone else who may see this in the future and cause them to question), as of the time of this writing, LK Chen's Flying Phoenix is amazing. I pray they maintain the quality to price (ie, value proposition) they currently meet. I purchased full retail (not even a sale or anything) and I was incredibly impressed with the value. I can't give LK Chen enough props.
Why would anybody want to put their finger past the guard? That would be like standing in front of your shield instead of behind it 😉
HA! Very true!!!