That’s exactly how I feel. A uniform, by definition and intention, is meant to make one’s “role” immediately apparent. Which is precisely how costumes function. A uniform is a type of costume.
1. Definitely did not expect a call out in this video 😂 and 2. I have *BIG FEEFEES* about your commentary on costume vs. uniform and I think how you addressed it was lovely. and and 3. Monty Python *noice* 😂
Thank you for your response! You covered a big reason why I tend to avoid military focused reenactors. I agree with you in that all clothing = costume. Weekdays I dress up in my 'competent adult office worker' costume, and on weekends I dress in my 'tired millennial who just wants to be comfy' costume. Your upcoming projects sound awesome! I am also looking forward to all the resources that will be added to the community tab!
Watched Brandon's vid, & I just don't understand why "costume" is apparently such an insulting word, or why lots of military re-enactors want to call what they're wearing a uniform- & I don't like the implied value judgement. As you said about women feeling sidelined at such events cos they "can't" fight (SCA lets women fight, I had a hack), it seems like it values the combatants (in those groups, only men) in their "serious, official" uniforms, above the non-combatants (all the women in their groups, & anyone who re-enacts or dresses up in non-military garb) in their "silly, frivolous" costumes. As a lover of costume & costuming in many forms, I'm mildly insulted- just cos bad costumes exist, it doesn't mean all costumes are inherently crappy! But I'd rather be sneered at for playing dress-ups than refer to my (hypothetical & non-existent) military costume as my uniform. It's not a uniform unless it's worn by the soldier it's issued to while they're still serving, & it's insulting & presumptive to claim otherwise. They're not soldiers; they're dressing up in soldier costumes- AND THAT'S FINE! Re-enacting, cosplay, acting etc are all awesome hobbies & art forms, & snobbery among the ranks (lol) is just silly! Huzzah for non-military re-enactors, & bring on the shoes, food & embroidery!
The more time I spend looking at period sources for inspiration, the more often I come across "costume" being used to describe regular everyday clothes! Most recently it was an 1890s fashion magazine that would caption fashion plates "a Spring walking costume" "an elegant costume in silk" et c. Now having lots of (unformed) thoughts about how modern dress is such that for most 21st century people, putting on a matched and tailored set of clothes automatically feels like dressing for a special occasion . . .
As a veteran, during my service I wore a uniform because I earned it, and wore it every day as part of my job. As a lover of vintage clothing, historian, and sometimes reenactor, I wear a costume. If you earned it, it's a uniform, if you didn't, it's a costume. I'd rather wear a costume. It's safer :)
@@Pipes570 Excellent point, and you are correct. When reenacting, as when performing in a movie, you are your impression, and it is indeed a uniform. When it's over, and I am no longer in character, I remove my costume.
I had a military uniform a UPS uniform a EMS uniform and I had no choice in how any of those uniforms were worn , there were regulations for all of that clothing but I have a costume that I decided what it would look like and when I wear it . Each peace of my costume was painstakingly researched and made by hand and helps tell the story of that character I portray, whereas my uniforms mostly did not and mostly just identified me as one of a large number of people with this job for that employer ( a bullet hole in my pants quickly resulted in those pants being returned to supply so my clothing would not continue to tell my story ) where as many of the stains and patches in my costume tell the story of a person on the frontier running from a wild fire and getting some of his clothing burned or how I hold the stone on my knee while sharpening my tools .
Thank you. I spent most of my adult life as a contract seamstress. I used to call my products "clothes". Most were meant to be worn, worked in & washed. It was always fun when someone brought a photo of a sculpture or painting with the attitude of "I LOVE this & want to wear it." Thank you for your perspective.
Thank you once again for your intelligent discourse. This is why you are a good role model for my 11 year old son. I especially love the bits where we all get to laugh together.
The simplest option for not feeling that someone may be belittling what you are doing, or the culture behind it is simply to provide them upfront with the terminology you feel is most appropriate. If I attend an event as a member of the public, it can be assumed I know nothing - but it can’t be assumed that this is due to malicious ignorance or disrespect. If the mislabelling of what you’re wearing is simply annoying to your group, provide people with the preferred terminology. Use event signage, the event posts on social media, website, the information being displayed or handed out by the museum or cultural centre that is involved - to provide the terminology. Public events are at least nominally intended as opportunities to educate members of the public, right? Examples: -There will be reenactors wearing recreations of historical dress/costume. -Reenactors refer to the clothing they wear for these events as their “kit”. -The clothing being worn by the dancers is called regalia. - Reenactors portraying the x-regiment are wearing uniforms which are recreations of the dress/combat uniform worn by the regiment in x years. If you model the language you would like used, not everyone will absorb that information. But if you don’t even provide it, you really have no idea whether the member of the public using the term is being rude, or just has no idea. You’ll have to assume they just don’t know, and if you find that frustrating - provide the information!
So many great points. I appreciate reenactment of ordinary people. History was not all epic battles. I would love to see more emphasis on women, children, the people that don't make history books.
My grandma always referred to her skirt and matching jacket, which nowadays we would just call a 'suit', as a 'costume'. This was back in the 60's. I don't know if that is just old fashioned Yorkshire terminology or whether that was the actual name for ladies suits in the 40's, 50's and 60's.
I've just made a similar comment! Sorry for not reading your comment first. 'A costume' was what a woman in the western world wore for day-time 'best'. I'm in New Zealand.
@@lynnemcdonald465 In German this distinction is still made today. :) In business wear for example a matching set of jacket & trousers is "Anzug" (suit). And matching set of jacket & skirt is "Kostüm" (costume).
Yes, yes, YES! All fantastic points you make here. I am one of those Viking enthusiasts who is tired of seeing our hobby depicted as pure combat. I'm also one of those odd cases who wears their costumes pretty much anywhere, not just to events. 😅
Okay. Watched Brandon F.'s vid. It was a bit of a circular argument and started where it began. It was very good, but definitely was, as you said, a narrow view of the hobby. Thank you for adding to the debate. Battles were important in history, for sure, but there's a lot more regular life that happened in between those clashes. Your talking about many of the more "mundane" aspects is wonderful. Real life, real clothing, the basics tells much more about a people than just their military maneuvers. I have nothing to add to a reading list, but I will definitely take a peek at it and possibly peruse some of the ones suggested. Thanks again for sharing!
Firstly, thank you so much for pointing out the inclusivity issues! :) I found Brandon's video a bit pedantic and superior. He seemed to have the best intentions! It just he was clearly a bit stung by the idea of being compared to a cheap costume. (I did appreciate that he was able to mention strippers doing their work without it being a weird moral thing!) I'm glad you pointed out that costume was just a way to describe an outfit, your usage of kit to describe your gear is an ideal middle ground here! I agree that costume and uniform are very much not mutually exclusive! My biggest complaint was his harping on marching band! (Very much a personal problem that I am just going to vent about here...) Modern marching bands are MUCH CLOSER to any historic soldiering than reenacting... Practice multiple times a week and every weekend, entire weeks dedicated to nothing but practice. Built in competition. Issued uniforms intended to demonstrate group cohesion issued from a stock of existing uniforms in the best fit for the whole group. Elaborate learned formations. Leadership chains enforced by overarching authority figures. Suffering for the greater good. It's got everything except combat and death!
This seems a little hypocritical considering we are allowed to leave in a car, wash in a shower, and then have a good laugh on the internet about what you got up to at our events afterwards. No reenactor, no matter how 'hardcore', is living as the person of whom they make an impression did, and to attempt to suggest otherwise is in very poor taste. We do not put ourselves in 'the hardships of those times', because we are always aware that we will live through our events. We are always aware that the Axis powers lost. We are not being fired upon with live ammunition. We are not living on army and civilian rations, under curfew, and with the restrictions of total global war upon us for our entire lives. I can tell you're very proud of your group, and their impression is very, very good, from having seen them, but I must point out that Lizzy is correct. I highly doubt even the men of the reformed 21st Panzer Division: "Practice multiple times a week and every weekend, entire weeks dedicated to nothing but practice." In WW2 reenacting there is rarely: "Built in competition." Nor are there usually: "Issued uniforms intended to demonstrate group cohesion issued from a stock of existing uniforms in the best fit for the whole group." And having spent a week in a trench, it was hardly: "Suffering for the greater good". We're reenactors. We're playing. We're 21st century people. To claim it is any more than playacting and education seems inappropriate.
@@Pipes570 Not the point. The point is you have the option to leave an event at any point. Your unit requires those regulations only whilst you are re-enacting, not for your entire life, as is the case in the real military. Yes, but the point is you do all of those things temporarily and voluntarily as a form of leisure activity. You are not (I hope!) forced to do them under penalty of court-martial. It really does seem marching band is the closest thing we have to a real alternative to military discipline and rigour! You can wear slippers, watch TV, eat pizza, and upload videos and comments to UA-cam when you leave the event. To reiterate, we cannot understand these events fully, no matter how much we claim or want to, because we are modern people living modern lives. What you do gives you a taste, yes, but don't claim it's any more than that or you run the risk of WALTing.
In German re-enactors make the distinction of clothing as follows: Gewandung (garb/garment) for re-enactment kits whether military or civilian and Kostüm (costume) for Halloween and fancy dress. Every day clothing is refered to as 'civil' (zivil).
Excellent points. I'd like to see the negative connotations removed from the word "costume" by people properly using it to describe all costumes and not just the bad ones.
I have been following the female costubers for quite some time now. I hadn't heard of this Brandon person before and if that is representative of his channel, I don't care to. He is a little twit of a man with an attitude I can't stand. I do like you, keep up the good work. You have a soothing voice that helped bring me back down after watching that other crap.
Well, well, well, this week I've been having a similar disscusion in my head regarding terminology. You see, in spanish we use the word "disfraz" for your typical halloween costume, or like cosplay kind of stuff (although, i think cosplay implies more than just wearing the characters outfit, but i'm not sure), and the word "vestuario" for theatrical, cinema, and dance clothing. So when trying to talk about the clothes that we use in folkloric dance in english, I find a difficulty as sure, my culture is not a costume in the halloween kind of way, but then i don't know the word since is not really quite traditional clothing. After your video i realize that the word "costume" relates more to the word "vestuario" since it means clothing, and is used as the "special occasion/specific activity" so now my non-native english speaker mind can rest on that subject for a while, and go finnish my final essays (and then go check that reading list in the community tab!!)
You said pretty much what I was thinking, when talking to my English relatives I always refer to my traditional mallorquín “clothing”, never to my traditional “costume”. (Pd: Hola, no pensaba encontrarme a más gente del sur de los pirineos. 👐)
@@TheWelshViking All of these things being said, where do the terms "cultural clothing/traditional clothing" fit in? They seem to be neither costumes, nor uniforms, nor re-enactment garb. Maybe an example would be Indian women who wear saris every day - it's traditional clothing within their culture.... You're right, this really is fascinating. :) Oh, and I am very glad that you don't focus on the fighting aspects. There is so much more to history than fighting wars.
Intersting topic. Actually, when I did a little reenactment some years back, the whole military side never even occured to me. I love it though, when you thoughtfully include viewpoints from female participants as well! Thanks for that :)
The last thing about reenactment I ever wish to be truly interested in is the military side. War is messy, violent, and painful, not something to treated like a game. I would much rather enjoy the civilian side of things, learn how the economy worked, understand why various aesthetic and technological decisions were made, and what one can learn from that
Veeery late comment, but I came back to this video years later and this comment struck me... Because I'm much the same way, but despite that have been in recent years quite enjoying the more military Napoleonic events here in South Moravia (around Slavkov / Austerlitz), in a mostly spectator role, precisely because the people who organise them don't shy away from the messy side of war. They are, in fact, kind of purposely, in an entertaining manner, educating the public about the human tragedies involved, and how the Napoleonic wars affected the surrounding countryside, and so on. They also involve a group of folk singers performing mournful local folk songs about war. And for the past ten years they've been doing a memorial service for the victims of war in the cathedral in Brno (which, honestly, was _exactly what I needed to take part in_ this year, what with war going on not that far from us _right now)._ Last year, when the war in Ukraine started, they cancelled events for about six months precisely because they felt bad playing at war, and said the money they would have spent / been funded with could be used for something more urgent. So attending their events does usually feel... appropriate. 🙂 And... I don't think many people will see this comment, but if you do, and do military re-enactment - take this as inspiration on how to do it well. 😉
For me persoally, a uniform is the clothing issued or purchased for the performace of a job. I have served in the military and in various civillian jobs that required the wearing of a uniform in the performance of those duties. However, I have no issue with the outfit being refered to as a uniform if it is represented historically and as accurately as possible. To me this appears to be an issue of respecf for the items being worn - and the associated connotations of the words being used. . Interesting debate. Perhaps the tone of the person using the word/s is more to the point here.
I'm not expert enough to offer suggestions on the book thread but I'm certainly looking forward to reading it. Also I wanted to give props to your presentation style, even in a more casual video like this. People often don't understand how hard it can be to be engaging, informative, and even know how to pace humor while at the same time educating. It's one of those things where it tends to only be noticed when done badly, so I wanted to tip my hat for how you do it well.
I'm from the UK and just strait up call it a swimming costume for any style or gender. On a wider point all I was thinking in Brandon's video was what about all the 'costumers/re-enactors' that aren't in anything that would ever be called a uniform in any circumstance! I mean it's in the flipping name of the culture/hobby/community, especially hear on UA-cam with 'CosTube'.
Homage to the great Monty Python(to mix my movie metaphors a bit) “we’re not worthy, we’re not worthy” Can I just say, I love the term “combat wombat” Oh and without those who did the shoes, and food and sewing and embroidery, the ones waving their swords around in their chain mail would have been, to put it politely, screwed. War was only ever a small part of life......the cooking, sewing etc, IS life. Costume ofc is a word that has changed usage. Costume used to mean, clothes. Your clothes were your costume for the day. Uniform, means “the same” The word as used today, is clothing that defines a particular group by having a “uniform costume” Oh god I have to stop the multi paragraph comments on your vids, dude!!
I could not watch his whole video.. I find it made me feel,... uncomfortable. I personally wear a uniform everyday at work.. I drive a bus.. I did not chose the uniform or materials it is made of, nor, would I have but I like to work and yes it is a uniform. lol I am unsure why costume is such a bad word.. to me it has always been clothing that you wear daily. You can change others perceptions of you with just what you wear.. so you can wear different costumes... Theater or movie costumes are what they wear to do their jobs and convey a story or perception for others. For halloween I have always said halloween costume because you want to be or be seen as something else just as cosplay is another way to be seen as something else.. To me the word costume is not a bad word.. it is just a word used for clothing for much longer and uniform has been I hope you and yours are having a wonderful week. Take care and be safe.
I wear a costume for work every single day. I cosplay and put a lot of work into it every single time I make and wear one. The idea that people find the term demeaning is strange and a little insulting to me actually. His video was interesting, but the preoccupation with fighting isn’t nearly as interesting as the sewing, embroidery, food, and fashions in my opinion. I didn’t even pick up on the military connotations but to be honest that might be part of the reason it bothers me so much to hear. Thank you for this response and for recommending such a different channel!
Another thing to destigmatise the term ‘costume’ which I don’t think you mentioned - costume is also used to refer to what an actor wears (eg the department in charge of clothing on a film is the costuming department), and ultimately there’s little difference between an actor on screen/stage putting on clothing to portray a character and a re-enactor doing so. With regards to uniforms being relatively modern, wouldn’t what a Roman soldier wore be considered a uniform? While there may have been differences in the specific armour each legionary wore, wasn’t everything else in their kit standardised?
Also, speaking as a former Camp Follower - absolutely! We, in the Sealed Knot, were very conscious of being 'in costume' - but for us it was being as authentic as possible
This is really the very 1st video I’ve ever seen where it’s got X amount of thumbs up 👍 votes and no thumbs down 👎 votes before. Speaks volumes about how great your videos are
Great video as usual. Loved the Monty Python reference. With regards the uniform/costume debate I've always just called everything "kit", with optional prefixes (men's, women's, soldier's, civilian's, officer's etc) where further clarity is needed.
Recently found your channel, love what we've seen so far. It's a dif time frame & culture, but you may find Townsend's yt channel of interest. They are 18th century, mainly n. am., & cover millitary, but only as a portion of life in that time. They do historical cooking, music, clothing, laundry, upperclass, mid class, indentured, slaves, seefarers, the struggles people went thru in their day to day lives of whatever niche. They've built things using period techniques, have guests experienced with period jobs, etc. And they try for historical accuracy.
This is a very interesting topic for sure! And it really does have to do with the evolution and function of the language(s) you speak. Some languages (as I understand) actually require very specific terminology even in every day use (a distinct word for an elder aunt on the matrilineal line vs a word that refers to an elder aunt on the patrilineal line) versus others have very broad terminology (Aunt) in which the specifics are provided by context or additional descriptive terms. Which is further complicated by the fact that even people who speak the same language would not necessarily use the same word and mean the same thing (ie modern english costume, vs academic/historical costume). Then you add “slang” and everything becomes confetti and silly string. Communicating, though we do it everyday, is actually an incredibly challenging skill. And words are an ever changing and sometimes inadequate tool we have created to express ourselves and share our experiences. It is a beautiful and beautifully flawed system in the same way that humans are. That said I agree very much with you (you being Jim) in that we must consider beyond ourselves and our personal interests-especially in settings that deal with many people and many kinds of people-that whatever we feel personally we consider and use inclusive language no matter what language we speak. And that in doing so we comport ourselves in a respectful manner. It is understandable and perhaps appropriate to speak on those things we know well versus that which we know less well, but simply making a note of awareness (I know that this exists but due to my lacking experience I don’t feel comfortable ranting in depth at this time etc etc) goes a long way towards fostering that inclusion. Which is a long winded way of saying I think you’re a wonderful human being, thank you for sharing. Ps BOOKS!!!! *is maybe far too excited but meh*
OK, so, I come from an army family, my entire child and teen hood was spent on barracks or bases, or in army quarters. Military kids like I was have a name for people who dress up as soldiers with fake medals on their chests and its not a flattering one. Suffice to say that I'm not alienated from the combat wombats because I'm female, I'm alienated predominantly because most of them have no concept of what wearing that uniform means and treat it like mufty day in primary school. I've got no time for their idiocy, but I will say there is a huge difference between the muppets playing dress up and true re-enactment where respect is key. Essentially mate, I'm here for the embroidery, awesome capes and history you bring, not some tit in a uniform he hasn't earnt, so I'm very glad you're bringing your personal brand of this to the tubes, thank you for being so informative! 😁
Mate, "flush, proper, professional, and in standard with every other person in your unit, with shoulders rolled back, chest up and head held high" seems a deeply inaccurate description of most of the dress of German forces of the later war, but ok. Once again, I have seen and heard uniform referred to as costume from the period. This is a moot point.
@@Pipes570 But you're not a soldier, you're someone dressing up as one, in a costume. The people who wore that outfit in the line of duty, those were soldiers, and they get to call it a uniform. You can't half arse a military drill, because you are not in the military, you're re-enacting an event the military took part in. From my perspective, there's a difference between acting and being, you are acting, they were being. They wore uniforms, you wear a costume. I'm not gonna argue this one cos after a lifetime immersed in the military, my position isn't gonna change, so you do you, but recognise there are many people out there who won't agree with you.
It's nice to finally find a viking channel, full stop ^^ I usually refer to my viking clothes as either clothes or in english as garb. I find that it doesn't run people the wrong way and it feels right for me. It is kind of the sentiment of reanactors here that it isn't the modern definition of costume, that you put on weird clothes and pretend to be someone else for a bit, it's more a extension of themselves. That said I like that you go out and give the history behind it, and that it is as always on the point and calm, giving a fantastic opportunity to listen and not feel offended or hurt because of something not working within their point of view. You did it in a fantastic way here as well as on the video about removing statues. Thank you ^^
While I know you're not usually big into the SCA, one thing I like is the tradition of using the word 'garb' to refer to the medieval clothes the reenactors wear. You can discuss it specifically "is it alright if I arrive in street clothes to set up the tables in the hall and then change into garb on site?" Plus since it is just an archaic word for clothing it's rather judgement neutral.
It’s looking like a second lockdown is likely to happen in my neck of the woods. I might use it to finally learn Welsh. Sadly none of my Welsh speaking close family is still around to practice with.
Your channel is great! I love militaria but I find day to day life in history much more interesting and its hard to get in any era but especially viking. Keep up the great work!
It is a de facto uniform, almost never displaying the insignia of the organization for which they work, so not livery. I would describe it as 'clothing'. "I have six suits in my wardrobe." Oh, this is fun!
I wore a uniform at my private school (I loved it, I didn't have to choose what to wear!). And the French word for "suit"... is "costume". Another 2 cents.
I love your little outro ditty 😂 And you're not wrong about the mental gymnastics involved in learning Welsh! I'm perfectly used to past tenses giving me a massive headache (yes, I'm looking at you passe simple and passato remoto 😈) but it had been a while since a language's present tense was quite so vexing 😄
'Those responsible have been sacked'. Oh lordy, I lost it there. I think of 'Uniform' as being an outfit (or costume) issued to you by the regulating issuing authority for the purpose of performing the profession for which the uniform was issued. This applies any uniforms from doorman, milkman, parlour maid, to 4-star general. If you have made it yourself, however meticulous in detail, you will. never be 'in uniform' as you are performing NOT performing a job designated for or to you by that authority. So perhaps it is a matter of of parsing whether you are IN uniform or wearing a uniform. So the actor understands that his soldier's costume was issued for the purposes of portraying a soldier, and the soldier understands that his uniform is to identify his job within the military.
Interesting distinction at the end of your point there. I felt like Brandon was largely failing to find a good definition that fit because he wanted what he wears at reenactment to be called a uniform and was stumbling over the predetermined line. However your point also solves this by the distinction of 'wearing the (recreation of a) uniform of an x soldier from y year' I gives a chance for more education that way too.
Many lovely points, as always! The costume/not a costume debate is mostly a semantic thing I think, and I appreciate you calling attention to the etymology and historic use of the word! In a modern context, I do see how it has come to be associated with pretending to be something you're not, in a way that can irk people who feel as comfortable or more in their historic garb as in other clothing. Like, when I was working 2 jobs, one interpreting 1730s Northern Irish flax farming, and one delivering pizzas, the polyester monstrosity I had to wear for the pizza job felt a hell of a lot more like a "costume" in that sense than my 1730s work clothes.
Weird swedish fact: the word Costume evolved into what is considered black tie formalwear today and the word we use for the modern English's costume connotations is entirely different. "Dräkt" which would translate into Apparel
My take ....as you said, more or less the same word root as custom. ‘This is what they customarily wore’. However, I have a problem. Being as how I’m very old, in my young day, ‘costume’ was a fashion term and was a woman’s outfit consisting of a skirt and matching jacket. Soooo, costume feels a weeny bit ‘wrong’ to me,, so, I call them Viking, Saxon etc clothes. Problem. I’m on an iPad Pro, and the community tag isn’t functioning as yet.
My thoughts, A uniform has restrictions without much(possibly any) choice... often for work purposes but primarily to distinguish a group. There may or may not be an "earned this uniform" mentality. I suspect a lot of military reactors react to the word costume primarily because there are group rules/regulations for the outfit. Sometimes the guidelines even distinguish the individual unit and a lot of people put effort and pride into them. I would think calling it a costume, while arguably very accurate, could emotionally feel like telling them that they are an outsider. Also, love this vid, well thought through!
I use garment for reenactment. Because you do not wear costume as a reenactor, since that has come to be too theatrical in its connotations. PS. Our theatrical costumiers here have a little trick, when they make uniforms for stage-wear: they sew on the buttons upside down. It is subtle, but it makes a difference (but that only works when the huttons have an up and down direction, of course.)
I think uniform is a costume anyway, because you put it on to assume a role for a job or specific period of time. It isn't apart of your wardrobe outside of this specific thing. for an example, someone who wears a like, Petco uniform is wearing a company mandated costume. I guarantee that Petco employee does not wear that uniform outside of their job (unless they haven't gotten a chance to change out of it). The same goes for historical uniforms. I think a more appropriate term would be 'dress' because some people do incorporate their historical garments into their everyday wardrobe. or like zack, they wear the garments often and make them with the purpose of being wearable. if that makes sense lol
I am wondering if you would consider doing a video on this article www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/09/viking-was-job-description-not-matter-heredity-massive-ancient-dna-study-shows I am struck by the bit about how the Greenland burials DNA shows that the men were from Scandinavia but the women were from the British islands, though nothing in the archaeology shows British influence/culture.
That was interesting. The meaning of words shifts over time, and at seventy four, I am beginning to find this a bit unsettling. I mean one thing, someone forty years younger means something else! As a side note on the meanings attached to 'costume', my mother was married in 'a costume' in 1945. This consisted of a woollen tailored jacket and straight skirt, just below knee level. All women who had their acts together at the time owned a costume. I agree with you that 'uniform' means one shape, and shouts (forget implying) that everyone was going to look identical, and is normally confined to military or military-like organisations. Fairly modern, and not involving everyone alive at the time.
My group (14th century medieval scotland) just calls it 'kit', 'gear' or just 'clothing'. If it's a gambeson, chainmail or plate, it's called 'armour'. We generally discourage members of the public calling it 'costume' due to the modern conatations of that being a designed garment for theatrical use or performances. And at a lot of shows we attend, they get in theatrical actors whose job it is to perform as important historical figures in their finery for that day and that's not what we do. We fight or craft or even sleep in these clothes. It's feels about as much a costume as a boiler suit or football player's kit would be. So it feels weird calling it a costume as it would someone calling your everyday wear a costume because of modern day conatations. That's just my group though. I get the academic use of the word costume but still doesn't sit right for me when the average person says it as they probably don't mean it in an academic sense. Though no issue with other reenactors using the word; you do you.
Julian Keith totally agree, my group (late viking age) does the same thing, also to distance ourselves from Halloween costumes, as there are wild ideas of what a viking looked like haha
A reen"actor" performs an act. All actors wear costumes. The costume may be historical perfectly correct, but nevertheless be worn by an actor who acts in it and plays a role. Actors wear costumes.
I understand the explanation, however I have been brought-up to view uniforms as the work attire for people that work actively in the public service/sector (specifically armed and safety services) and school children. Oh!, the HORROR of ugly school uniforms will haunt my dreams forever. Just for interest: It is actually illegal South Africa to wear government issued items of uniform if you are not an active member of that type of service....active members all have either a badge or Force number. A male soldier's may not loan out a set of his uniform for a friend to look cool at a fancy-dress party, nor is the soldier allowed to wear his jacket(blazer) with civilian clothing over a weekend. For example: If a person of the public(civilian) is wearing any variation of uniform in active Service use, such as a pair of Army camouflage trousers, then any active soldier may walk-up to that civilian and ask them to take-off that pair of trousers. In RSA a large part of the Afrikaans and white English population refer to swimwear as our costumes or cozzy/cozzies for short. :-D The word costume has a happy connotation here.
I understand the negative connotations of the word 'costume'. My group re-enact the household of an Italian noble household. We call the clothing we wear 'kit' as you mentioned 😊
I love the use of garb, gear or kit - because I feel like it encompasses the entirety of your clothes, accessories, shoes, etc. I wore civilian, female, Civil War clothing daily for work for a good length of time (nowhere near as long as Abby Cox!!) and truly did just think of it as my clothes. I would go out to dinner after work in it, wear it to pump gas on my way to work, etc. It was just my clothes then! But not anymore! And NEVER a uniform!! Because I wasn't a military reenactor, I was reenacting a regular civilian woman - a teacher, parson's wife, store-keeper or camp follower depending on the day!
As someone who is female-passing, I heartily agree about alienating women and the over-focus on military history. I like a good fight, but 90% of history is not battles.
My background is in theater and architecture. There is a great deal of similarity in the design world. Are those plastic "things" nailed to the exterior of a wall on the sides of a window eligible to be called shutters when they don't work and won't even completely cover the window? For clothing, I keep it simple. Is the situation an actual, real-life event? No? Then your great grandfather's officially made and issued uniform is being worn as a costume. The word 'costume' simply denotes use for a non-real-life event.
It's an interesting point all around. There are military reenactors and they do need to wear the proper clothes for the battle or time period they're reenacting. Most of these uniforms or no longer used and these people are dead. I dont believe they're being disrespectful and are keeping the memory and the history alive.
To me, a uniform is job-related. Costume can have a lot of different meanings. When I was a kid costume often meant swimming costume. It also was a ladie's church outfit. Recently I heard a person lamenting than no one wore costumes to her fancy dress party because fancy dress to them meant formal wear. I didn't realize women can't put on uniforms and reenact battles. That seems unfair since historically women have cross-dressed to participate in actual battles.
I have garb and mundanes. About to start history bounding which will have some garb pieces to it, however they will just be clothes (not periods I reenact so not garb). They are just clothes regardless.
@@TheWelshViking I used to have a wombat living under my house. They are basically furry but surprising fast tanks (you do *not* want to hit one with your car). I find the term "combat wombat" deeply hilarious.
Not too dissimilar to “murder hobo”, a term usually given to TTRPlayers by the GMs because the group just kills EVERYONE. Example: Friendly shopkeeper? Murder, loot the body. Small child giving directions? It’s trap. Murder, loot the body, lie to mother’s face, realize the lie is obvious, murder the mother, loot the body. Actual villain? Try and have a conversation.
I think part of the “fighting”/military presence on UA-cam and other media platforms is somewhat due to certain history buffs being more interested in battles than every day life. Which is fine, do your thing!! I think they’ve just been more vocal. Probably because they feel more comfortable. Which! We can make others feel more comfy the more we accept others. Whee!
If some rando on the street sees you in your exquisitely crafted/presented garb, military or otherwise, and sarcastically snarks “nice costume” at you, and you respond with “it’s a uniform” you aren’t helping the problem. So if you’re getting up in your feeling that badly over how people refer to your clothes, garb, kit, costumes, uniforms.. enh.. take the high road. Say “thank you “ and tip your hat. Because darn it it’s still illegal to run them through. Just kidding.. 😉 I don’t see value to dissertations on semantics. The proper names for the individual pieces however, (and their makeup) provide great educational and entertainment value, but that’s entirely different. And really, Defensiveness rarely works out. 🤷♀️
"Remember that not all reenactors are military reenactors.... The acceptance [matters more which] we have to show every person..." As a trans person who is overall impacted by misogyny who is peeking into this admittedly quite unfamiliar (but cool, nay, AMAZING) community, I was already so happy at this point but then you said "Unless you wear that every single day it is absolutely a costume" woooahhhh
In my reenactment group, we all refer to our clothing as 'garb' It's helpful to remind others/non reenactors to distinguish it from a "costume" in the modern sense. Incidentally, I was annoyed that I didn't get the alert for your video but I hadn't clicked the bell so... Problem solved!
I look at it as “All squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares”. All uniforms are costume, but not all costumes are uniforms.
Sounds spot on, Susan
Sounds good to me
That’s exactly how I feel. A uniform, by definition and intention, is meant to make one’s “role” immediately apparent. Which is precisely how costumes function. A uniform is a type of costume.
1. Definitely did not expect a call out in this video 😂 and 2. I have *BIG FEEFEES* about your commentary on costume vs. uniform and I think how you addressed it was lovely. and and 3. Monty Python *noice* 😂
I am VERY much here for the "shoes and food and embroidery" and yes I am deeply alienated by the military stuff.
Then I'll carry on doing the food and shooz and embroidery!
The Welsh Viking , Perfect!!
Ditto!
At my reenactment group we call our medieval kit our sensible clothes
Thank you for your response! You covered a big reason why I tend to avoid military focused reenactors. I agree with you in that all clothing = costume. Weekdays I dress up in my 'competent adult office worker' costume, and on weekends I dress in my 'tired millennial who just wants to be comfy' costume.
Your upcoming projects sound awesome! I am also looking forward to all the resources that will be added to the community tab!
I so agree. As an aging hippie, I refer to some of it as 'drag'. Two formal costumes: Summer and winter wedding, summer and winter funeral!
Watched Brandon's vid, & I just don't understand why "costume" is apparently such an insulting word, or why lots of military re-enactors want to call what they're wearing a uniform- & I don't like the implied value judgement. As you said about women feeling sidelined at such events cos they "can't" fight (SCA lets women fight, I had a hack), it seems like it values the combatants (in those groups, only men) in their "serious, official" uniforms, above the non-combatants (all the women in their groups, & anyone who re-enacts or dresses up in non-military garb) in their "silly, frivolous" costumes.
As a lover of costume & costuming in many forms, I'm mildly insulted- just cos bad costumes exist, it doesn't mean all costumes are inherently crappy! But I'd rather be sneered at for playing dress-ups than refer to my (hypothetical & non-existent) military costume as my uniform. It's not a uniform unless it's worn by the soldier it's issued to while they're still serving, & it's insulting & presumptive to claim otherwise. They're not soldiers; they're dressing up in soldier costumes- AND THAT'S FINE! Re-enacting, cosplay, acting etc are all awesome hobbies & art forms, & snobbery among the ranks (lol) is just silly!
Huzzah for non-military re-enactors, & bring on the shoes, food & embroidery!
The more time I spend looking at period sources for inspiration, the more often I come across "costume" being used to describe regular everyday clothes! Most recently it was an 1890s fashion magazine that would caption fashion plates "a Spring walking costume" "an elegant costume in silk" et c. Now having lots of (unformed) thoughts about how modern dress is such that for most 21st century people, putting on a matched and tailored set of clothes automatically feels like dressing for a special occasion . . .
As a veteran, during my service I wore a uniform because I earned it, and wore it every day as part of my job. As a lover of vintage clothing, historian, and sometimes reenactor, I wear a costume. If you earned it, it's a uniform, if you didn't, it's a costume. I'd rather wear a costume. It's safer :)
@@Pipes570 Excellent point, and you are correct. When reenacting, as when performing in a movie, you are your impression, and it is indeed a uniform. When it's over, and I am no longer in character, I remove my costume.
Thank you so much for your service.
I had a military uniform a UPS uniform a EMS uniform and I had no choice in how any of those uniforms were worn , there were regulations for all of that clothing but I have a costume that I decided what it would look like and when I wear it . Each peace of my costume was painstakingly researched and made by hand and helps tell the story of that character I portray, whereas my uniforms mostly did not and mostly just identified me as one of a large number of people with this job for that employer ( a bullet hole in my pants quickly resulted in those pants being returned to supply so my clothing would not continue to tell my story ) where as many of the stains and patches in my costume tell the story of a person on the frontier running from a wild fire and getting some of his clothing burned or how I hold the stone on my knee while sharpening my tools .
Thank you.
I spent most of my adult life as a contract seamstress.
I used to call my products "clothes". Most were meant to be worn, worked in & washed.
It was always fun when someone brought a photo of a sculpture or painting with the attitude of "I LOVE this & want to wear it."
Thank you for your perspective.
Thank you once again for your intelligent discourse. This is why you are a good role model for my 11 year old son. I especially love the bits where we all get to laugh together.
Crikey, what a lovely compliment! Thank you both for being here, and for taking the time to leave such a nice comment.
The simplest option for not feeling that someone may be belittling what you are doing, or the culture behind it is simply to provide them upfront with the terminology you feel is most appropriate.
If I attend an event as a member of the public, it can be assumed I know nothing - but it can’t be assumed that this is due to malicious ignorance or disrespect.
If the mislabelling of what you’re wearing is simply annoying to your group, provide people with the preferred terminology.
Use event signage, the event posts on social media, website, the information being displayed or handed out by the museum or cultural centre that is involved - to provide the terminology. Public events are at least nominally intended as opportunities to educate members of the public, right?
Examples:
-There will be reenactors wearing recreations of historical dress/costume.
-Reenactors refer to the clothing they wear for these events as their “kit”.
-The clothing being worn by the dancers is called regalia.
- Reenactors portraying the x-regiment are wearing uniforms which are recreations of the dress/combat uniform worn by the regiment in x years.
If you model the language you would like used, not everyone will absorb that information. But if you don’t even provide it, you really have no idea whether the member of the public using the term is being rude, or just has no idea. You’ll have to assume they just don’t know, and if you find that frustrating - provide the information!
So many great points. I appreciate reenactment of ordinary people. History was not all epic battles. I would love to see more emphasis on women, children, the people that don't make history books.
My grandma always referred to her skirt and matching jacket, which nowadays we would just call a 'suit', as a 'costume'. This was back in the 60's. I don't know if that is just old fashioned Yorkshire terminology or whether that was the actual name for ladies suits in the 40's, 50's and 60's.
I've just made a similar comment! Sorry for not reading your comment first. 'A costume' was what a woman in the western world wore for day-time 'best'. I'm in New Zealand.
@@lynnemcdonald465 Yes. It was something she always wore for 'best' whenever she went out somewhere special.
@@lynnemcdonald465 In German this distinction is still made today. :)
In business wear for example a matching set of jacket & trousers is "Anzug" (suit). And matching set of jacket & skirt is "Kostüm" (costume).
Well in French a man's suit is called a costume :) (suit and tie is called costume-cravate)
According to Sarah Christman of 'This Victorian Life', costume was simply a now archaic synonym for clothes.
Yes, yes, YES! All fantastic points you make here. I am one of those Viking enthusiasts who is tired of seeing our hobby depicted as pure combat.
I'm also one of those odd cases who wears their costumes pretty much anywhere, not just to events. 😅
Okay. Watched Brandon F.'s vid. It was a bit of a circular argument and started where it began. It was very good, but definitely was, as you said, a narrow view of the hobby. Thank you for adding to the debate. Battles were important in history, for sure, but there's a lot more regular life that happened in between those clashes. Your talking about many of the more "mundane" aspects is wonderful. Real life, real clothing, the basics tells much more about a people than just their military maneuvers. I have nothing to add to a reading list, but I will definitely take a peek at it and possibly peruse some of the ones suggested. Thanks again for sharing!
Firstly, thank you so much for pointing out the inclusivity issues! :) I found Brandon's video a bit pedantic and superior. He seemed to have the best intentions! It just he was clearly a bit stung by the idea of being compared to a cheap costume. (I did appreciate that he was able to mention strippers doing their work without it being a weird moral thing!)
I'm glad you pointed out that costume was just a way to describe an outfit, your usage of kit to describe your gear is an ideal middle ground here! I agree that costume and uniform are very much not mutually exclusive!
My biggest complaint was his harping on marching band! (Very much a personal problem that I am just going to vent about here...) Modern marching bands are MUCH CLOSER to any historic soldiering than reenacting... Practice multiple times a week and every weekend, entire weeks dedicated to nothing but practice. Built in competition. Issued uniforms intended to demonstrate group cohesion issued from a stock of existing uniforms in the best fit for the whole group. Elaborate learned formations. Leadership chains enforced by overarching authority figures. Suffering for the greater good. It's got everything except combat and death!
This seems a little hypocritical considering we are allowed to leave in a car, wash in a shower, and then have a good laugh on the internet about what you got up to at our events afterwards.
No reenactor, no matter how 'hardcore', is living as the person of whom they make an impression did, and to attempt to suggest otherwise is in very poor taste.
We do not put ourselves in 'the hardships of those times', because we are always aware that we will live through our events. We are always aware that the Axis powers lost. We are not being fired upon with live ammunition. We are not living on army and civilian rations, under curfew, and with the restrictions of total global war upon us for our entire lives.
I can tell you're very proud of your group, and their impression is very, very good, from having seen them, but I must point out that Lizzy is correct. I highly doubt even the men of the reformed 21st Panzer Division: "Practice multiple times a week and every weekend, entire weeks dedicated to nothing but practice."
In WW2 reenacting there is rarely: "Built in competition." Nor are there usually: "Issued uniforms intended to demonstrate group cohesion issued from a stock of existing uniforms in the best fit for the whole group."
And having spent a week in a trench, it was hardly: "Suffering for the greater good".
We're reenactors. We're playing. We're 21st century people. To claim it is any more than playacting and education seems inappropriate.
@@Pipes570 Not the point. The point is you have the option to leave an event at any point. Your unit requires those regulations only whilst you are re-enacting, not for your entire life, as is the case in the real military.
Yes, but the point is you do all of those things temporarily and voluntarily as a form of leisure activity. You are not (I hope!) forced to do them under penalty of court-martial.
It really does seem marching band is the closest thing we have to a real alternative to military discipline and rigour!
You can wear slippers, watch TV, eat pizza, and upload videos and comments to UA-cam when you leave the event.
To reiterate, we cannot understand these events fully, no matter how much we claim or want to, because we are modern people living modern lives. What you do gives you a taste, yes, but don't claim it's any more than that or you run the risk of WALTing.
In German re-enactors make the distinction of clothing as follows: Gewandung (garb/garment) for re-enactment kits whether military or civilian and Kostüm (costume) for Halloween and fancy dress. Every day clothing is refered to as 'civil' (zivil).
@@lynnm6413 That is what I meant with fancy dress.
Excellent points. I'd like to see the negative connotations removed from the word "costume" by people properly using it to describe all costumes and not just the bad ones.
I have been following the female costubers for quite some time now. I hadn't heard of this Brandon person before and if that is representative of his channel, I don't care to. He is a little twit of a man with an attitude I can't stand. I do like you, keep up the good work. You have a soothing voice that helped bring me back down after watching that other crap.
Well, well, well, this week I've been having a similar disscusion in my head regarding terminology. You see, in spanish we use the word "disfraz" for your typical halloween costume, or like cosplay kind of stuff (although, i think cosplay implies more than just wearing the characters outfit, but i'm not sure), and the word "vestuario" for theatrical, cinema, and dance clothing. So when trying to talk about the clothes that we use in folkloric dance in english, I find a difficulty as sure, my culture is not a costume in the halloween kind of way, but then i don't know the word since is not really quite traditional clothing.
After your video i realize that the word "costume" relates more to the word "vestuario" since it means clothing, and is used as the "special occasion/specific activity" so now my non-native english speaker mind can rest on that subject for a while, and go finnish my final essays (and then go check that reading list in the community tab!!)
You said pretty much what I was thinking, when talking to my English relatives I always refer to my traditional mallorquín “clothing”, never to my traditional “costume”.
(Pd: Hola, no pensaba encontrarme a más gente del sur de los pirineos. 👐)
@@anglomallorquina5898 Yeah, I agree. ¡Saludos desde México!
In the spanish larp community we ususally use "atrezzo" and "caracterización" when we talk about our costumes!
This is all absolutely fascinating reading!
@@TheWelshViking All of these things being said, where do the terms "cultural clothing/traditional clothing" fit in? They seem to be neither costumes, nor uniforms, nor re-enactment garb. Maybe an example would be Indian women who wear saris every day - it's traditional clothing within their culture.... You're right, this really is fascinating. :) Oh, and I am very glad that you don't focus on the fighting aspects. There is so much more to history than fighting wars.
Intersting topic.
Actually, when I did a little reenactment some years back, the whole military side never even occured to me.
I love it though, when you thoughtfully include viewpoints from female participants as well!
Thanks for that :)
The last thing about reenactment I ever wish to be truly interested in is the military side. War is messy, violent, and painful, not something to treated like a game. I would much rather enjoy the civilian side of things, learn how the economy worked, understand why various aesthetic and technological decisions were made, and what one can learn from that
Veeery late comment, but I came back to this video years later and this comment struck me...
Because I'm much the same way, but despite that have been in recent years quite enjoying the more military Napoleonic events here in South Moravia (around Slavkov / Austerlitz), in a mostly spectator role, precisely because the people who organise them don't shy away from the messy side of war. They are, in fact, kind of purposely, in an entertaining manner, educating the public about the human tragedies involved, and how the Napoleonic wars affected the surrounding countryside, and so on. They also involve a group of folk singers performing mournful local folk songs about war. And for the past ten years they've been doing a memorial service for the victims of war in the cathedral in Brno (which, honestly, was _exactly what I needed to take part in_ this year, what with war going on not that far from us _right now)._ Last year, when the war in Ukraine started, they cancelled events for about six months precisely because they felt bad playing at war, and said the money they would have spent / been funded with could be used for something more urgent. So attending their events does usually feel... appropriate. 🙂 And... I don't think many people will see this comment, but if you do, and do military re-enactment - take this as inspiration on how to do it well. 😉
Of all the things I liked about this video, the true gem was waiting for me right at the end 🤣💜
Editing Jimmy: focus your camera Jimmy!
Jimmy: oh? I was not focus... my bad 😅
For me persoally, a uniform is the clothing issued or purchased for the performace of a job. I have served in the military and in various civillian jobs that required the wearing of a uniform in the performance of those duties. However, I have no issue with the outfit being refered to as a uniform if it is represented historically and as accurately as possible. To me this appears to be an issue of respecf for the items being worn - and the associated connotations of the words being used. . Interesting debate. Perhaps the tone of the person using the word/s is more to the point here.
I'm not expert enough to offer suggestions on the book thread but I'm certainly looking forward to reading it. Also I wanted to give props to your presentation style, even in a more casual video like this. People often don't understand how hard it can be to be engaging, informative, and even know how to pace humor while at the same time educating. It's one of those things where it tends to only be noticed when done badly, so I wanted to tip my hat for how you do it well.
I accumulated some pieces of clothing specifically to look office presentable and I honestly call it my "middle class cosplay" wardrobe.
In some parts of Australia, swimwear is referred to as a "cozzie" (short for swimming/bathing costume).
Embroidery is looking very nice.
Scousers call it a cozzie too
I'm from the UK and just strait up call it a swimming costume for any style or gender.
On a wider point all I was thinking in Brandon's video was what about all the 'costumers/re-enactors' that aren't in anything that would ever be called a uniform in any circumstance! I mean it's in the flipping name of the culture/hobby/community, especially hear on UA-cam with 'CosTube'.
Thankyou for the inclusion, and respect! wonderful and thoughtful video. Thanks for the homework!
I think if you are reenacting it is a costume-unless you are the actual soldier, what have you.
Homage to the great Monty Python(to mix my movie metaphors a bit) “we’re not worthy, we’re not worthy”
Can I just say, I love the term “combat wombat” Oh and without those who did the shoes, and food and sewing and embroidery, the ones waving their swords around in their chain mail would have been, to put it politely, screwed. War was only ever a small part of life......the cooking, sewing etc, IS life.
Costume ofc is a word that has changed usage. Costume used to mean, clothes. Your clothes were your costume for the day. Uniform, means “the same” The word as used today, is clothing that defines a particular group by having a “uniform costume”
Oh god I have to stop the multi paragraph comments on your vids, dude!!
I could not watch his whole video.. I find it made me feel,... uncomfortable. I personally wear a uniform everyday at work.. I drive a bus.. I did not chose the uniform or materials it is made of, nor, would I have but I like to work and yes it is a uniform. lol
I am unsure why costume is such a bad word.. to me it has always been clothing that you wear daily. You can change others perceptions of you with just what you wear.. so you can wear different costumes... Theater or movie costumes are what they wear to do their jobs and convey a story or perception for others. For halloween I have always said halloween costume because you want to be or be seen as something else just as cosplay is another way to be seen as something else.. To me the word costume is not a bad word.. it is just a word used for clothing for much longer and uniform has been
I hope you and yours are having a wonderful week. Take care and be safe.
👏👏👏
I find the cloths being called Costumes has contation with Fancy Dress, which they are not.
I wear a costume for work every single day. I cosplay and put a lot of work into it every single time I make and wear one. The idea that people find the term demeaning is strange and a little insulting to me actually. His video was interesting, but the preoccupation with fighting isn’t nearly as interesting as the sewing, embroidery, food, and fashions in my opinion. I didn’t even pick up on the military connotations but to be honest that might be part of the reason it bothers me so much to hear. Thank you for this response and for recommending such a different channel!
I've met Brandon a couple of times. Took him as a prisoner at a tactical once, that was interesting.
I hope he took it as a gentleman
Suit, like a business suit or a matching set of things, in Russian is "Kostyum", so it's still used for regular clothes here.
Oh, that's fascinating!
Another thing to destigmatise the term ‘costume’ which I don’t think you mentioned - costume is also used to refer to what an actor wears (eg the department in charge of clothing on a film is the costuming department), and ultimately there’s little difference between an actor on screen/stage putting on clothing to portray a character and a re-enactor doing so.
With regards to uniforms being relatively modern, wouldn’t what a Roman soldier wore be considered a uniform? While there may have been differences in the specific armour each legionary wore, wasn’t everything else in their kit standardised?
Also, speaking as a former Camp Follower - absolutely! We, in the Sealed Knot, were very conscious of being 'in costume' - but for us it was being as authentic as possible
As a designer for theatre I loved the definition that you used as clothing equals costumes
This is really the very 1st video I’ve ever seen where it’s got X amount of thumbs up 👍 votes and no thumbs down 👎 votes before. Speaks volumes about how great your videos are
I am seldom uniform in my choice of costume for work and play.
A moose once bit my sister...
Very nasty
For the sister?......or the moose??............
Great video as usual. Loved the Monty Python reference.
With regards the uniform/costume debate I've always just called everything "kit", with optional prefixes (men's, women's, soldier's, civilian's, officer's etc) where further clarity is needed.
When can we expect your single "Please don't hate me, Brandon" to hit Spotify and/or SoundCloud?
All I could think of, watching Brandon, was the famous iocaine duel in The Princess Bride.
"Dizzying intellect"? or running in circles?
I love how inclusive you are. Love your style xx Thank you xx
Recently found your channel, love what we've seen so far.
It's a dif time frame & culture, but you may find Townsend's yt channel of interest. They are 18th century, mainly n. am., & cover millitary, but only as a portion of life in that time. They do historical cooking, music, clothing, laundry, upperclass, mid class, indentured, slaves, seefarers, the struggles people went thru in their day to day lives of whatever niche. They've built things using period techniques, have guests experienced with period jobs, etc. And they try for historical accuracy.
This is a very interesting topic for sure! And it really does have to do with the evolution and function of the language(s) you speak. Some languages (as I understand) actually require very specific terminology even in every day use (a distinct word for an elder aunt on the matrilineal line vs a word that refers to an elder aunt on the patrilineal line) versus others have very broad terminology (Aunt) in which the specifics are provided by context or additional descriptive terms. Which is further complicated by the fact that even people who speak the same language would not necessarily use the same word and mean the same thing (ie modern english costume, vs academic/historical costume). Then you add “slang” and everything becomes confetti and silly string.
Communicating, though we do it everyday, is actually an incredibly challenging skill. And words are an ever changing and sometimes inadequate tool we have created to express ourselves and share our experiences. It is a beautiful and beautifully flawed system in the same way that humans are.
That said I agree very much with you (you being Jim) in that we must consider beyond ourselves and our personal interests-especially in settings that deal with many people and many kinds of people-that whatever we feel personally we consider and use inclusive language no matter what language we speak. And that in doing so we comport ourselves in a respectful manner. It is understandable and perhaps appropriate to speak on those things we know well versus that which we know less well, but simply making a note of awareness (I know that this exists but due to my lacking experience I don’t feel comfortable ranting in depth at this time etc etc) goes a long way towards fostering that inclusion.
Which is a long winded way of saying I think you’re a wonderful human being, thank you for sharing.
Ps BOOKS!!!! *is maybe far too excited but meh*
OK, so, I come from an army family, my entire child and teen hood was spent on barracks or bases, or in army quarters. Military kids like I was have a name for people who dress up as soldiers with fake medals on their chests and its not a flattering one. Suffice to say that I'm not alienated from the combat wombats because I'm female, I'm alienated predominantly because most of them have no concept of what wearing that uniform means and treat it like mufty day in primary school. I've got no time for their idiocy, but I will say there is a huge difference between the muppets playing dress up and true re-enactment where respect is key.
Essentially mate, I'm here for the embroidery, awesome capes and history you bring, not some tit in a uniform he hasn't earnt, so I'm very glad you're bringing your personal brand of this to the tubes, thank you for being so informative! 😁
Mate, "flush, proper, professional, and in standard with every other person in your unit, with shoulders rolled back, chest up and head held high" seems a deeply inaccurate description of most of the dress of German forces of the later war, but ok.
Once again, I have seen and heard uniform referred to as costume from the period. This is a moot point.
@@Pipes570 But you're not a soldier, you're someone dressing up as one, in a costume. The people who wore that outfit in the line of duty, those were soldiers, and they get to call it a uniform. You can't half arse a military drill, because you are not in the military, you're re-enacting an event the military took part in. From my perspective, there's a difference between acting and being, you are acting, they were being. They wore uniforms, you wear a costume.
I'm not gonna argue this one cos after a lifetime immersed in the military, my position isn't gonna change, so you do you, but recognise there are many people out there who won't agree with you.
It's nice to finally find a viking channel, full stop ^^ I usually refer to my viking clothes as either clothes or in english as garb. I find that it doesn't run people the wrong way and it feels right for me. It is kind of the sentiment of reanactors here that it isn't the modern definition of costume, that you put on weird clothes and pretend to be someone else for a bit, it's more a extension of themselves.
That said I like that you go out and give the history behind it, and that it is as always on the point and calm, giving a fantastic opportunity to listen and not feel offended or hurt because of something not working within their point of view. You did it in a fantastic way here as well as on the video about removing statues.
Thank you ^^
Both very interesting pieces which made me think - good job!
While I know you're not usually big into the SCA, one thing I like is the tradition of using the word 'garb' to refer to the medieval clothes the reenactors wear.
You can discuss it specifically "is it alright if I arrive in street clothes to set up the tables in the hall and then change into garb on site?" Plus since it is just an archaic word for clothing it's rather judgement neutral.
It’s looking like a second lockdown is likely to happen in my neck of the woods.
I might use it to finally learn Welsh. Sadly none of my Welsh speaking close family is still around to practice with.
Tell me that when you said "Combat Wombat" you were referring to the excellent motorcycle produced by Hodaka in the 60s
Oh you get so many cool points for getting this reference
Thank you for saying all my feels about that video.
Your channel is great! I love militaria but I find day to day life in history much more interesting and its hard to get in any era but especially viking. Keep up the great work!
Is an accountant’s blue pinstripe suit a costume? A uniform? Or a livery?
Costume, I’d say :)
@@TheWelshViking I think it depends on their personal attitude with regard to management
@@nurmihusa7780 If it's enforced, certainly! ;)
It is a de facto uniform, almost never displaying the insignia of the organization for which they work, so not livery. I would describe it as 'clothing'. "I have six suits in my wardrobe." Oh, this is fun!
Only at 1:20, but I love the Monty Python homage! Made me smile!
I wore a uniform at my private school (I loved it, I didn't have to choose what to wear!). And the French word for "suit"... is "costume". Another 2 cents.
I love your little outro ditty 😂
And you're not wrong about the mental gymnastics involved in learning Welsh! I'm perfectly used to past tenses giving me a massive headache (yes, I'm looking at you passe simple and passato remoto 😈) but it had been a while since a language's present tense was quite so vexing 😄
Whats interesting to me, is that business clothing for woman is called costume in german(y). So another point for costume = clothing.
And the SCA calls their clothing Garb.
Loved the Monty Python bits. Fabulous video as always, and thank you for the reading list.
'Those responsible have been sacked'. Oh lordy, I lost it there.
I think of 'Uniform' as being an outfit (or costume) issued to you by the regulating issuing authority for the purpose of performing the profession for which the uniform was issued. This applies any uniforms from doorman, milkman, parlour maid, to 4-star general. If you have made it yourself, however meticulous in detail, you will. never be 'in uniform' as you are performing NOT performing a job designated for or to you by that authority. So perhaps it is a matter of of parsing whether you are IN uniform or wearing a uniform. So the actor understands that his soldier's costume was issued for the purposes of portraying a soldier, and the soldier understands that his uniform is to identify his job within the military.
Interesting distinction at the end of your point there. I felt like Brandon was largely failing to find a good definition that fit because he wanted what he wears at reenactment to be called a uniform and was stumbling over the predetermined line. However your point also solves this by the distinction of 'wearing the (recreation of a) uniform of an x soldier from y year' I gives a chance for more education that way too.
@@growley333 Any reen"actor" wears a costume. What he does is an act. In reality people wear uniforms in acting people wear costumes.
Many lovely points, as always! The costume/not a costume debate is mostly a semantic thing I think, and I appreciate you calling attention to the etymology and historic use of the word! In a modern context, I do see how it has come to be associated with pretending to be something you're not, in a way that can irk people who feel as comfortable or more in their historic garb as in other clothing. Like, when I was working 2 jobs, one interpreting 1730s Northern Irish flax farming, and one delivering pizzas, the polyester monstrosity I had to wear for the pizza job felt a hell of a lot more like a "costume" in that sense than my 1730s work clothes.
I lived in Wales in the 00's, what I remember of s4c was never getting to watch anything cool on channel 4 because round a round was on.
My Nan was a regular extra on Rownd a Rownd for years!
I agree with other commenters that all uniforms are a form of costume but not all costumes are uniforms.
I come for the brilliant amount of information and jimmy's facial expressions 😂❤️
Weird swedish fact: the word Costume evolved into what is considered black tie formalwear today and the word we use for the modern English's costume connotations is entirely different. "Dräkt" which would translate into Apparel
My take ....as you said, more or less the same word root as custom. ‘This is what they customarily wore’. However, I have a problem. Being as how I’m very old, in my young day, ‘costume’ was a fashion term and was a woman’s outfit consisting of a skirt and matching jacket. Soooo, costume feels a weeny bit ‘wrong’ to me,, so, I call them Viking, Saxon etc clothes. Problem. I’m on an iPad Pro, and the community tag isn’t functioning as yet.
My thoughts, A uniform has restrictions without much(possibly any) choice... often for work purposes but primarily to distinguish a group. There may or may not be an "earned this uniform" mentality. I suspect a lot of military reactors react to the word costume primarily because there are group rules/regulations for the outfit. Sometimes the guidelines even distinguish the individual unit and a lot of people put effort and pride into them. I would think calling it a costume, while arguably very accurate, could emotionally feel like telling them that they are an outsider.
Also, love this vid, well thought through!
I use garment for reenactment. Because you do not wear costume as a reenactor, since that has come to be too theatrical in its connotations. PS. Our theatrical costumiers here have a little trick, when they make uniforms for stage-wear: they sew on the buttons upside down. It is subtle, but it makes a difference (but that only works when the huttons have an up and down direction, of course.)
A reen"actor performs an act. It is an illusion on an open stage. Actors wear costumes.
I think uniform is a costume anyway, because you put it on to assume a role for a job or specific period of time. It isn't apart of your wardrobe outside of this specific thing. for an example, someone who wears a like, Petco uniform is wearing a company mandated costume. I guarantee that Petco employee does not wear that uniform outside of their job (unless they haven't gotten a chance to change out of it). The same goes for historical uniforms. I think a more appropriate term would be 'dress' because some people do incorporate their historical garments into their everyday wardrobe. or like zack, they wear the garments often and make them with the purpose of being wearable. if that makes sense lol
"Revised and enlarged edition" does it have a gusset?
When I did American Civil War reenacting we referred to what we wore as period clothing, not costumes.
I am wondering if you would consider doing a video on this article www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/09/viking-was-job-description-not-matter-heredity-massive-ancient-dna-study-shows
I am struck by the bit about how the Greenland burials DNA shows that the men were from Scandinavia but the women were from the British islands, though nothing in the archaeology shows British influence/culture.
You seem to have read my mind...
That was interesting. The meaning of words shifts over time, and at seventy four, I am beginning to find this a bit unsettling. I mean one thing, someone forty years younger means something else! As a side note on the meanings attached to 'costume', my mother was married in 'a costume' in 1945. This consisted of a woollen tailored jacket and straight skirt, just below knee level. All women who had their acts together at the time owned a costume. I agree with you that 'uniform' means one shape, and shouts (forget implying) that everyone was going to look identical, and is normally confined to military or military-like organisations. Fairly modern, and not involving everyone alive at the time.
My group (14th century medieval scotland) just calls it 'kit', 'gear' or just 'clothing'. If it's a gambeson, chainmail or plate, it's called 'armour'.
We generally discourage members of the public calling it 'costume' due to the modern conatations of that being a designed garment for theatrical use or performances. And at a lot of shows we attend, they get in theatrical actors whose job it is to perform as important historical figures in their finery for that day and that's not what we do. We fight or craft or even sleep in these clothes. It's feels about as much a costume as a boiler suit or football player's kit would be. So it feels weird calling it a costume as it would someone calling your everyday wear a costume because of modern day conatations.
That's just my group though. I get the academic use of the word costume but still doesn't sit right for me when the average person says it as they probably don't mean it in an academic sense.
Though no issue with other reenactors using the word; you do you.
Julian Keith totally agree, my group (late viking age) does the same thing, also to distance ourselves from Halloween costumes, as there are wild ideas of what a viking looked like haha
A reen"actor" performs an act. All actors wear costumes. The costume may be historical perfectly correct, but nevertheless be worn by an actor who acts in it and plays a role. Actors wear costumes.
I'm literally only 9 seconds in, and there's already a Monty Python reference... this is off to a great start!
Loving the sass from Editing Jimmy! Also great video and Brandon's was fascinating too
This. This. This.
Also, awesome shout-outs to Abby and Zach.
I understand the explanation, however I have been brought-up to view uniforms as the work attire for people that work actively in the public service/sector (specifically armed and safety services) and school children. Oh!, the HORROR of ugly school uniforms will haunt my dreams forever.
Just for interest: It is actually illegal South Africa to wear government issued items of uniform if you are not an active member of that type of service....active members all have either a badge or Force number. A male soldier's may not loan out a set of his uniform for a friend to look cool at a fancy-dress party, nor is the soldier allowed to wear his jacket(blazer) with civilian clothing over a weekend. For example: If a person of the public(civilian) is wearing any variation of uniform in active Service use, such as a pair of Army camouflage trousers, then any active soldier may walk-up to that civilian and ask them to take-off that pair of trousers.
In RSA a large part of the Afrikaans and white English population refer to swimwear as our costumes or cozzy/cozzies for short. :-D The word costume has a happy connotation here.
I understand the negative connotations of the word 'costume'. My group re-enact the household of an Italian noble household. We call the clothing we wear 'kit' as you mentioned 😊
I love the use of garb, gear or kit - because I feel like it encompasses the entirety of your clothes, accessories, shoes, etc. I wore civilian, female, Civil War clothing daily for work for a good length of time (nowhere near as long as Abby Cox!!) and truly did just think of it as my clothes. I would go out to dinner after work in it, wear it to pump gas on my way to work, etc. It was just my clothes then! But not anymore! And NEVER a uniform!! Because I wasn't a military reenactor, I was reenacting a regular civilian woman - a teacher, parson's wife, store-keeper or camp follower depending on the day!
As someone who is female-passing, I heartily agree about alienating women and the over-focus on military history. I like a good fight, but 90% of history is not battles.
Some people wear their clothes as if they were on the stage, others seem to inhabit their clothes.
My background is in theater and architecture. There is a great deal of similarity in the design world. Are those plastic "things" nailed to the exterior of a wall on the sides of a window eligible to be called shutters when they don't work and won't even completely cover the window? For clothing, I keep it simple. Is the situation an actual, real-life event? No? Then your great grandfather's officially made and issued uniform is being worn as a costume. The word 'costume' simply denotes use for a non-real-life event.
It's an interesting point all around. There are military reenactors and they do need to wear the proper clothes for the battle or time period they're reenacting. Most of these uniforms or no longer used and these people are dead. I dont believe they're being disrespectful and are keeping the memory and the history alive.
To me, a uniform is job-related. Costume can have a lot of different meanings. When I was a kid costume often meant swimming costume. It also was a ladie's church outfit. Recently I heard a person lamenting than no one wore costumes to her fancy dress party because fancy dress to them meant formal wear. I didn't realize women can't put on uniforms and reenact battles. That seems unfair since historically women have cross-dressed to participate in actual battles.
This comment is something completely unexpected. Those responsible have been sacked.
I have garb and mundanes. About to start history bounding which will have some garb pieces to it, however they will just be clothes (not periods I reenact so not garb). They are just clothes regardless.
Nice “roll credits” closing theme.
Glad I stayed for the end credits song *chef kiss*
Don't say I never give ya nuthin nice!
Combat-Wombat? Okay Google, here is come again!
... Google failed. An Australian beer? What?
“Combat Wombat”, n., one whose interest in reenactment lies only in the violent.
@@TheWelshViking I used to have a wombat living under my house. They are basically furry but surprising fast tanks (you do *not* want to hit one with your car). I find the term "combat wombat" deeply hilarious.
Not too dissimilar to “murder hobo”, a term usually given to TTRPlayers by the GMs because the group just kills EVERYONE.
Example:
Friendly shopkeeper? Murder, loot the body.
Small child giving directions? It’s trap. Murder, loot the body, lie to mother’s face, realize the lie is obvious, murder the mother, loot the body.
Actual villain? Try and have a conversation.
I think part of the “fighting”/military presence on UA-cam and other media platforms is somewhat due to certain history buffs being more interested in battles than every day life. Which is fine, do your thing!! I think they’ve just been more vocal. Probably because they feel more comfortable.
Which! We can make others feel more comfy the more we accept others. Whee!
If some rando on the street sees you in your exquisitely crafted/presented garb, military or otherwise, and sarcastically snarks “nice costume” at you, and you respond with “it’s a uniform” you aren’t helping the problem.
So if you’re getting up in your feeling that badly over how people refer to your clothes, garb, kit, costumes, uniforms.. enh..
take the high road. Say “thank you “ and tip your hat.
Because darn it it’s still illegal to run them through.
Just kidding.. 😉
I don’t see value to dissertations on semantics. The proper names for the individual pieces however, (and their makeup) provide great educational and entertainment value, but that’s entirely different.
And really, Defensiveness rarely works out. 🤷♀️
It's the 'll' that's a killer at first!
Both very interesting vids!
209 likes to 0 dislikes ratio, magnificent
"Remember that not all reenactors are military reenactors.... The acceptance [matters more which] we have to show every person..." As a trans person who is overall impacted by misogyny who is peeking into this admittedly quite unfamiliar (but cool, nay, AMAZING) community, I was already so happy at this point but then you said
"Unless you wear that every single day it is absolutely a costume" woooahhhh
In my reenactment group, we all refer to our clothing as 'garb'
It's helpful to remind others/non reenactors to distinguish it from a "costume" in the modern sense.
Incidentally, I was annoyed that I didn't get the alert for your video but I hadn't clicked the bell so...
Problem solved!