I have had one of these since 2000...don't lid yourself, I used mine for production..after 20 years...still solid. The only thing that sucks is the lever switch [ cheap chinese plastic] I glued mine back together, because they wanted 170 bucks for a replacement....for 2 ounce piece of plastic....you could put a drum switch on it too..mine works since the repair....I have used this for EVERYTHING...even with the gap out. I put an Aloris knock of on the tool post...much better. Yeah..the motor,,,the chinese one quit in 2 years....I just put a Dayton in there.....still running after 18 years...good review man!...
Has to be the easiest threading chart I’ve seen. Most others require a PhD to figure them out. I’m looking at buying an ENCO 111-3310 at the moment. This video helped a bunch. Thanks
Thank you for going over all the controls on this machine. I am looking to buy one of these machines that is damaged from shipping and missing parts. I do fixer upper tools and equipment as a hobby. Don't know why I have to rescue this thing but there it is.
I have this exact same lathe. Got it used from a local gentleman that barely used it. Came with all of the stuff it originally came with plus a digital readout installed. It basically looks like it could have been in a showroom and it had a quick change tool holder on it. For an import I find it to be fairly accurate. As basically a hobby guy I couldn't be happier with it.
I have the same lathe and the guy I got it from was a gunsmith.It is what it is a china lathe but for the money you cant beat it.Good on production im happy with it
Enco were made in Europe but that factory is closed. This is very similar to my Shenwai900 12 X 36 Taiwanese lathe except mine has a screwed on chuck. I had to make a special tool to change the chucks. I have it 40 years and would not take any money for it because it is so good. The solenoid forward and reverse switch is long burned out but I fitted a push pull cable to it instead and it works perfectly. The slides as scraped on mine too.
From what I was told the gap bed was for the ability to use a much larger chuck. No idea how that works with the tool post unless they used it for mill 90 degree set up.
My 12 x 36 is about 15 years old. The only real problem I've had was a lightning strike that fried the electronic control box. I was lost. Everything was burned so I scrapped out all the controls and put a rotary switch (it's still on the saddle) and a kill/disconnect switch on it just like a 1950's lathe would have. And YES, it was a lot of trouble. The only thing I really miss is the bump feature.
I have one of these machines that was missing the front plate with the holes that set the feed rates. Seems the machinist that used the machine found out his job was being sent out of house so my guess it, he left with the plate. Got a new plate from Grizzly and figured out how to drill it. I'm tempted to put a clear cover on it so it makes shifting the gears easier.
Nice video. I purchased a PM 1236 about a year and a half ago and you are right about these machines being identical in many ways. The motor on mine started acting up (I think it was the starter) and for about $150 I got a Baldor replacement motor which increased the warranty from 3 years to 5 years. I have no complaints except that I can't set the apron dial to zero just like yours.
Thanks for the review. We're looking at buying one of these for work (repair shop at a plant) and it's nice to see one in operation. I've used some of the larger Chinese and Taiwanese machines and found them generally pretty decent, but I've wondered about the smaller ones like this. With our small budget for a lathe, I pushed to get a used machine, but our corporate lawyers thought that it would expose us to more liability if someone ever gets hurt. Nonetheless, it looks like a pretty decent machine for general-purpose use.
Nice video, I have a similar, Taiwanese machine,(Tida 12 X 36), same issues. The plastic gear is a sacrificial gear. My buddy crashed his lathe, that gear saved his machine. At that time you could by a replacement thru enco, about $80.00. I have an issue with mine in which the D1-4 doesn’t register correctly, got to get it figured out. These came in at least a dozen different brands. Thanks for the video, JB San Diego.
JB, Did you ever figure out your D1-4 registration issue? Mine does not register well either I have to really crank on it to get the 3 jaw to run close to true...
It looks just like my 2005 Hazard Fraud T33274 discontinued in 2009 Gearhead 12x36 or yes the Grizzly G4003 12x36. I thought that the "gap bed" makes it interchangeable . Thank you for showing me how it works I have NEVER owned nor operated a machinists lathe I paid $260 freedom bucks having a new top slid machined. I didn't think it could do sixty thousandths!
Very thorough video. It's funny how similarly made most of these import machines are! I've got a Taiwanese 12x36 belt drive Jet that's almost identical except for the gearing in the headstock. I've been pretty impressed with it overall. Ended up fitting it with a 3HP 3-phase motor and VFD and it has really earned its keep. I don't think the cross slides are actually scraped in. Pretty sure the marks on the ways are flaking for oil retention.
Way back in the late 1800s, the threading gearbox was invented. There were two basic types designed. When SB began, they chose and modified, one type, and some others did as well, while others chose the other design, while a few designed their own. The plastic gear is often used or phenolic gears are, for the purpose of preventing (too much) damage in the case of a head crash. Atlas often used phenolic. It’s fairly common. Gap lathes are mostly used for large faceplate use. Amateurs rarely need that, but in commercial applications it’s also fairly common. Very often these machines are much better for the amateur shop than “old American Iron”. Why? Because the old machines are almost always old commercial machines that after they were beyond their usefulness, were sold. The “luck” guy who buys one at the often very low price they do, finds themselves with a machine that’s been mistreated for years, if not decades, and that requires a good deal of work to bring back to a useful level for any kind of repeatable accuracy. This work is something they’re not prepared to do, or to pay to have done. It’s often better to go to Grizzly, Precision Matthew, or some other company and spend some bit more and buy a new machine with a warranty, parts and service available for many years to come. Don’t buy a machine that’s being discontinued because critical parts will become more scarce over time. Sorry if this advice goes against the grain of what people want to do, but it’s sound for most people. If you buy something used, that’s been discontinued for some time, remember that parts need to be available for 7 years, by law. After that, it’s up to the company to decide whether to unload them to a reseller and be done with it, or to keep them on the shelves, which costs them money. If the company no longer exists, or has been absorbed by another, nothing may be available anywhere. It’s a thought to keep in mind. For something like an old ENCO, I would call MSC and ask if parts for the model are in stock, and which ones.
These lathes a very good buy compared to a worn out over worked second hand USA/British made one. Nice size, good specification. Its as accurate as you are. I was once considering buying a similar spec new Alpine badged one in the mid 1990's. These were probably the fore runner to a lot of the far east import lathes.
Yeah, Unless you find a pristine older machine or completely rebuild it (including Grinding of the bed ways) you are in most cases ahead with an import machine.
Well done video. I'm currently looking at a 1440 Challenger lathe. Guys are telling me that it most likely is a knock off from Enco or Frejoth. The gear handles match the Frejoth. My working career has been with 20"+ lathes with 6hp motors minimum. My small business serves local farmers and so most of my work would be on bushings 4" dia and smaller and 2" hydraulic cylinder rod repairs. My main concern with these cheaper chinese lathes is vibration in the headstock because of poor design or cheap bearings. I think that if I lighten my depth of cut and lower my speeds that I should be able to overcome these shortcomings. My work doesn't involve high precision (less than .0005 tolerances) or tight runout control. What's your recomendation?
There is a clear plastic cover. I also have the 510-2585.. no clue why it's there either. Mine is cracked and seems to have let chips down onto the apron gearbox from previous owner.
@@jasonfontenot596 Seems to me it’s there to slide the gear into place if you want to use the powerfeed. There’s a set screw in the gear and it’s easy to move and takes less then a minute to do.
Do you know how the oiling of the quick change gears works on this lathe? I see that there are 3 oil nipples on the right side, with the top one being horizontal instead of angled. I'm assuming this feeds to the gears on the quick change gear box, but I just keep pumping oil in (we're talking a full 12 oz can of soda worth) and am feeling like those gears are still running dry. I'm about to conclude that the oil nipple is somehow just a miniature black hole inside my lathe, lol. Anyway, I am currently bringing one of these back online after the previous owner left it to rust for a few years. I'm finding a surprisingly nice machine under all the gunk and rust. Very smooth motion.
I have the exact same lathe and I'm wondering if you can help me. When I bought the machine it was wired for 120v. I'm trying to configure it to 220V but I'm having a hard time reading the connection schematic located on the back electrical cover. Any assistance you could provide would be greatly appreciated. I rewired the motor to 220v but not sure where the leads connect into the terminal block.
Mine is setup at 220v currently. 3 wires come in from power. R and S as the hots and PE as the neutral. I only have 3 wires comming from the motor going into the terminal strip. Red z1,blue v2, yellow u1. They connect to the corresponding label on the terminal strip. 4th, 5th,6th position from left side of strip. The wire on top side of terminal strip has same number/letter label and terminal strip itself is marked with same number/letter.
I have this exact lathe I bought new. After a month or so, I have developed an oil leak under the carriage. Any clue as to how to fix this? Thank you.....Great video.
I've used RTV sealant before to cure leaks on aprons. Just need to figure out where the leak is. Also you can get gasket material and make your own new gasket if it has one.
We have this machine in a 12x36 gear head 510-2584, 2007. It seems about identical. The gibs broke and we can't seem to find a new one. The pieces are in there with a c clamp (and functioning, sorta) so cant remove to measure, but seem to be about 13.375. Any ideas on where to get parts for these babies?
Best option might be to cross reference your machine with a grizzly machine. I once got a back gear for a mid 80's enco from Grizzly. Was the same part and fit perfectly. Just had to cross reference the machines. Grizzly has all of their manuals online, so if you know what you are looking for you can get something that will work or very close.
Just picked up this same model last week and I'm having some wiring problems. Do you have a schematic for the contactor and motor wiring you'd be willing to share? Thanks
I don't think I do, I no longer have this lathe. I took a photo once of a 12" lathe, but I believe you can get the diagrams off Grizzly. Just find a comparable grizzly lathe of the same ear, Should be the same lathe.
If you still have this lathe any chance you could measure the diameters of the motor sheaves? Mine came with an aftermarket motor with only a single sheave and I've like to put one on to match the original sizes. Thanks
Please I need help, I just bought a 111-1860 enco lathe, the person who sold it to me no longer had the manual, someone can tell me where I can find it. thank you.
If you can cross reference that lathe with a similar grizzly lathe, you can get their manuals for free downloadable from their site. I've gotten a few over the years. Remember that most of these machines were all the same just badged and painted differently.
I recently got a enco 110-1351 and during transport the emergency stop start button got broken and now I can't get it to run. Any parts places to get new on at that you know of?
Those shut offs are usually just a standard shutoff. 4 wires. Some have momentary switches, some need to twist to reset. You should be able to order one from Amazon or eBay fairly quick. Just get the right mounting hole size.
@@precisionmachineshed yes it comes with the standard 3 and 4 jaw chucks, Steady Rest Follower Rest Tool Box - Allen's, Drivers, Wrenches Clamp Styled Knurling tool and tool post. Looks like ill make an appointment to see it.
I'm not sure, you can cross reference this machine with a Grizzly and they might have one in an owners manual. I have taken printed charts and laminated them before. Not the best solution, but at least you know what to use.
Good price would be in that $1,500-2000 range with all the accessories. Upper I would say $3,000 maybe a little more with tooling in ether case. Made in Taiwan is better quality than made in China.
The China Taiwan thing is a myth! I do agree out of asia you can get product produced dependent on what you wish to pay. The truth is that most machines from China or Taiwan have assemblies made in each others countries to make up the unit. Our last Chinese mills had their heads all made in Taiwan. The quality thing is a myth...it depends more on what you are prepared to pay...
I have had one of these since 2000...don't lid yourself, I used mine for production..after 20 years...still solid. The only thing that sucks is the lever switch [ cheap chinese plastic] I glued mine back together, because they wanted 170 bucks for a replacement....for 2 ounce piece of plastic....you could put a drum switch on it too..mine works since the repair....I have used this for EVERYTHING...even with the gap out. I put an Aloris knock of on the tool post...much better. Yeah..the motor,,,the chinese one quit in 2 years....I just put a Dayton in there.....still running after 18 years...good review man!...
Has to be the easiest threading chart I’ve seen. Most others require a PhD to figure them out. I’m looking at buying an ENCO 111-3310 at the moment. This video helped a bunch. Thanks
That video you produced Did exactly what you intended it to do. Thank you for the information and your time.
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you for going over all the controls on this machine. I am looking to buy one of these machines that is damaged from shipping and missing parts. I do fixer upper tools and equipment as a hobby. Don't know why I have to rescue this thing but there it is.
im learning how to use mine from 1990 great machine
I have this exact same lathe. Got it used from a local gentleman that barely used it. Came with all of the stuff it originally came with plus a digital readout installed. It basically looks like it could have been in a showroom and it had a quick change tool holder on it. For an import I find it to be fairly accurate. As basically a hobby guy I couldn't be happier with it.
They are nice lathes and can be had for a decent price if you keep an eye out.
I have the same lathe and the guy I got it from was a gunsmith.It is what it is a china lathe but for the money you cant beat it.Good on production im happy with it
If I didn't already have a larger lathe, I would have been tamped to keep this one.
Enco were made in Europe but that factory is closed. This is very similar to my Shenwai900 12 X 36 Taiwanese lathe except mine has a screwed on chuck. I had to make a special tool to change the chucks. I have it 40 years and would not take any money for it because it is so good. The solenoid forward and reverse switch is long burned out but I fitted a push pull cable to it instead and it works perfectly. The slides as scraped on mine too.
Just bought one of these after watching your video a few times! Thanks for the thorough review!
Awsome. They are fairly nice lathes. Hard to beat for the price usually. Good luck with yours!
From what I was told the gap bed was for the ability to use a much larger chuck. No idea how that works with the tool post unless they used it for mill 90 degree set up.
My 12 x 36 is about 15 years old. The only real problem I've had was a lightning strike that fried the electronic control box. I was lost. Everything was burned so I scrapped out all the controls and put a rotary switch (it's still on the saddle) and a kill/disconnect switch on it just like a 1950's lathe would have. And YES, it was a lot of trouble. The only thing I really miss is the bump feature.
I have one of these machines that was missing the front plate with the holes that set the feed rates. Seems the machinist that used the machine found out his job was being sent out of house so my guess it, he left with the plate. Got a new plate from Grizzly and figured out how to drill it. I'm tempted to put a clear cover on it so it makes shifting the gears easier.
Once I messed around with this one a little bit, I got a feel for the gears meshing.
I need to purchase and have instructions for assembling,specific instructions for completing a produc .
So helpful. I just bought this exact same lathe a week ago.
Glad it was helpful!
Nice video.
I purchased a PM 1236 about a year and a half ago and you are right about these machines being identical in many ways. The motor on mine started acting up (I think it was the starter) and for about $150 I got a Baldor replacement motor which increased the warranty from 3 years to 5 years. I have no complaints except that I can't set the apron dial to zero just like yours.
Thanks for the review. We're looking at buying one of these for work (repair shop at a plant) and it's nice to see one in operation. I've used some of the larger Chinese and Taiwanese machines and found them generally pretty decent, but I've wondered about the smaller ones like this. With our small budget for a lathe, I pushed to get a used machine, but our corporate lawyers thought that it would expose us to more liability if someone ever gets hurt. Nonetheless, it looks like a pretty decent machine for general-purpose use.
Nice video, I have a similar, Taiwanese machine,(Tida 12 X 36), same issues. The plastic gear is a sacrificial gear. My buddy crashed his lathe, that gear saved his machine. At that time you could by a replacement thru enco, about $80.00. I have an issue with mine in which the D1-4 doesn’t register correctly, got to get it figured out. These came in at least a dozen different brands. Thanks for the video, JB San Diego.
JB, Did you ever figure out your D1-4 registration issue? Mine does not register well either I have to really crank on it to get the 3 jaw to run close to true...
It looks just like my 2005 Hazard Fraud T33274 discontinued in 2009 Gearhead 12x36 or yes the Grizzly G4003 12x36. I thought that the "gap bed" makes it interchangeable . Thank you for showing me how it works I have NEVER owned nor operated a machinists lathe I paid $260 freedom bucks having a new top slid machined. I didn't think it could do sixty thousandths!
Very thorough video. It's funny how similarly made most of these import machines are! I've got a Taiwanese 12x36 belt drive Jet that's almost identical except for the gearing in the headstock. I've been pretty impressed with it overall. Ended up fitting it with a 3HP 3-phase motor and VFD and it has really earned its keep. I don't think the cross slides are actually scraped in. Pretty sure the marks on the ways are flaking for oil retention.
Way back in the late 1800s, the threading gearbox was invented. There were two basic types designed. When SB began, they chose and modified, one type, and some others did as well, while others chose the other design, while a few designed their own. The plastic gear is often used or phenolic gears are, for the purpose of preventing (too much) damage in the case of a head crash. Atlas often used phenolic. It’s fairly common. Gap lathes are mostly used for large faceplate use. Amateurs rarely need that, but in commercial applications it’s also fairly common. Very often these machines are much better for the amateur shop than “old American Iron”. Why? Because the old machines are almost always old commercial machines that after they were beyond their usefulness, were sold. The “luck” guy who buys one at the often very low price they do, finds themselves with a machine that’s been mistreated for years, if not decades, and that requires a good deal of work to bring back to a useful level for any kind of repeatable accuracy. This work is something they’re not prepared to do, or to pay to have done. It’s often better to go to Grizzly, Precision Matthew, or some other company and spend some bit more and buy a new machine with a warranty, parts and service available for many years to come. Don’t buy a machine that’s being discontinued because critical parts will become more scarce over time. Sorry if this advice goes against the grain of what people want to do, but it’s sound for most people. If you buy something used, that’s been discontinued for some time, remember that parts need to be available for 7 years, by law. After that, it’s up to the company to decide whether to unload them to a reseller and be done with it, or to keep them on the shelves, which costs them money. If the company no longer exists, or has been absorbed by another, nothing may be available anywhere. It’s a thought to keep in mind. For something like an old ENCO, I would call MSC and ask if parts for the model are in stock, and which ones.
I've had nearly identical lathe for about 6 years not. It more than meets my hobby needs.
These lathes a very good buy compared to a worn out over worked second hand USA/British made one. Nice size, good specification. Its as accurate as you are.
I was once considering buying a similar spec new Alpine badged one in the mid 1990's. These were probably the fore runner to a lot of the far east import lathes.
Yeah, Unless you find a pristine older machine or completely rebuild it (including Grinding of the bed ways) you are in most cases ahead with an import machine.
Well done video. I'm currently looking at a 1440 Challenger lathe. Guys are telling me that it most likely is a knock off from Enco or Frejoth. The gear handles match the Frejoth. My working career has been with 20"+ lathes with 6hp motors minimum. My small business serves local farmers and so most of my work would be on bushings 4" dia and smaller and 2" hydraulic cylinder rod repairs. My main concern with these cheaper chinese lathes is vibration in the headstock because of poor design or cheap bearings. I think that if I lighten my depth of cut and lower my speeds that I should be able to overcome these shortcomings. My work doesn't involve high precision (less than .0005 tolerances) or tight runout control. What's your recomendation?
Is there a clear plastic cover on the cross slide, right over the drive gear? My 2005 model 510 -2585, has one and I can't figure out what it's for.
There is a clear plastic cover. I also have the 510-2585.. no clue why it's there either. Mine is cracked and seems to have let chips down onto the apron gearbox from previous owner.
@@jasonfontenot596 Seems to me it’s there to slide the gear into place if you want to use the powerfeed. There’s a set screw in the gear and it’s easy to move and takes less then a minute to do.
I am looking at the same machine that has electrical problems, contact switch broken in transport according to the owner,@@jasonfontenot596
Do you know how the oiling of the quick change gears works on this lathe?
I see that there are 3 oil nipples on the right side, with the top one being horizontal instead of angled. I'm assuming this feeds to the gears on the quick change gear box, but I just keep pumping oil in (we're talking a full 12 oz can of soda worth) and am feeling like those gears are still running dry. I'm about to conclude that the oil nipple is somehow just a miniature black hole inside my lathe, lol.
Anyway, I am currently bringing one of these back online after the previous owner left it to rust for a few years. I'm finding a surprisingly nice machine under all the gunk and rust. Very smooth motion.
I have the exact same lathe and I'm wondering if you can help me. When I bought the machine it was wired for 120v. I'm trying to configure it to 220V but I'm having a hard time reading the connection schematic located on the back electrical cover. Any assistance you could provide would be greatly appreciated. I rewired the motor to 220v but not sure where the leads connect into the terminal block.
Mine is setup at 220v currently. 3 wires come in from power. R and S as the hots and PE as the neutral. I only have 3 wires comming from the motor going into the terminal strip. Red z1,blue v2, yellow u1. They connect to the corresponding label on the terminal strip. 4th, 5th,6th position from left side of strip. The wire on top side of terminal strip has same number/letter label and terminal strip itself is marked with same number/letter.
@@jasonfontenot596 Thank you very much for your detailed comment.
I have this exact lathe I bought new. After a month or so, I have developed an oil leak under the carriage. Any clue as to how to fix this? Thank you.....Great video.
I've used RTV sealant before to cure leaks on aprons. Just need to figure out where the leak is. Also you can get gasket material and make your own new gasket if it has one.
We have this machine in a 12x36 gear head 510-2584, 2007. It seems about identical. The gibs broke and we can't seem to find a new one. The pieces are in there with a c clamp (and functioning, sorta) so cant remove to measure, but seem to be about 13.375. Any ideas on where to get parts for these babies?
Best option might be to cross reference your machine with a grizzly machine. I once got a back gear for a mid 80's enco from Grizzly. Was the same part and fit perfectly. Just had to cross reference the machines. Grizzly has all of their manuals online, so if you know what you are looking for you can get something that will work or very close.
Just picked up this same model last week and I'm having some wiring problems. Do you have a schematic for the contactor and motor wiring you'd be willing to share? Thanks
I don't think I do, I no longer have this lathe. I took a photo once of a 12" lathe, but I believe you can get the diagrams off Grizzly. Just find a comparable grizzly lathe of the same ear, Should be the same lathe.
I can't find an apron lock?
Manual says it is located by the apron oil fill
Back right side of apron. Square headed bolt.
If you still have this lathe any chance you could measure the diameters of the motor sheaves? Mine came with an aftermarket motor with only a single sheave and I've like to put one on to match the original sizes. Thanks
I don't. It was sold the next day after I made this video.
Precision Machine Shed Glad to hear it. Thanks anyway.
Please I need help, I just bought a 111-1860 enco lathe, the person who sold it to me no longer had the manual, someone can tell me where I can find it.
thank you.
If you can cross reference that lathe with a similar grizzly lathe, you can get their manuals for free downloadable from their site. I've gotten a few over the years. Remember that most of these machines were all the same just badged and painted differently.
Precision Machine Shed Thanks a lot.
Trying to upgrade to a quick change tool post but can't remove the 4 way t nut. It won't come out. Do you know how to remove it
Sometimes they are set in with set screws or the main bolt is screwed down against the compound to lock in the t nut.
I recently got a enco 110-1351 and during transport the emergency stop start button got broken and now I can't get it to run. Any parts places to get new on at that you know of?
Those shut offs are usually just a standard shutoff. 4 wires. Some have momentary switches, some need to twist to reset. You should be able to order one from Amazon or eBay fairly quick. Just get the right mounting hole size.
They use a plastic gear so it can fail without bending your internal shafts if you crash or overload
I see you sold the next day, If you dont mind me asking, what did you sell if tor. There is one for sale in my neck of the woods. For 2600.00
That seems like a fair price if all the extras are with it.
@@precisionmachineshed yes it comes with the standard 3 and 4 jaw chucks, Steady Rest
Follower Rest Tool Box - Allen's, Drivers, Wrenches Clamp Styled Knurling tool and tool post. Looks like ill make an appointment to see it.
Do you know if they sell replacement charts or stickers for this. My speed and feed charts are erased..
I'm not sure, you can cross reference this machine with a Grizzly and they might have one in an owners manual. I have taken printed charts and laminated them before. Not the best solution, but at least you know what to use.
Excellent video! Thank you!
NP, Thanks.
Wish my colchester Had gear speeds like that.
Great review
Thanks
how did u make aluminum plate?
How can you determine how big/diameter can you machine?
14" lathe will turn up to a 14" diameter by whatever length. A 14" lathe will have half the distance from the center of the chuck to the bed ways.
I have one for sale near me right now. Can you tell me what you paid for yours
Good price would be in that $1,500-2000 range with all the accessories. Upper I would say $3,000 maybe a little more with tooling in ether case. Made in Taiwan is better quality than made in China.
anyone know what this thing weighs? Roughly?
1200lbs give or take. It's heavy enough thay my 36hp Kubota couldn't roll the bucket back lifting it off the ground to carry into my shop.
Did you sell it my man
Clean
Sent you a message on Facebook.
The China Taiwan thing is a myth! I do agree out of asia you can get product produced dependent on what you wish to pay. The truth is that most machines from China or Taiwan have assemblies made in each others countries to make up the unit. Our last Chinese mills had their heads all made in Taiwan. The quality thing is a myth...it depends more on what you are prepared to pay...
I just bought one new off a guy for 500$