Sequential manual transmission is growing on him 8:43 i guess Doug is the type od guy to drive a lot of cars with this type of transmission, really, he must be starting a racing career
His terminology is wrong. The correct term is automated manual transmission. A sequential manual transmission still has a clutch pedal these cars do not. A sequential manual transmission has a gear lever that moves in only one axis (forward and back) connected to the transmission or alternatively paddle shifters that actuate solenoids to do that. A automated manual transmission just has normal automatic style gear lever and the cars computer modules take care of the rest including the clutch actuation. Sequential manual transmissions are only for race cars and maybe some special homologation race cars, they usually feature dog engagement not synchros and also straight cut gear sets. The drive ability of a manual sequential is such that it’s totally impractical for a road car. And to be clear to all you yanks, a sequential manual is not a type of automatic!
Most motorcycles have sequential manual transmissions. Since they are shifted with the toe, you can’t move the lever through several gates. The automated manual transmissions can be converted to manual transmissions if parts or kits are available.
Yeah he got that wrong. If Doug ever had a motorcycle, he would know the true difference. Just because the BMW SMG uses it in the title its not a true sequential transmission. He's a walking car encyclopedia in some ways but him not having been around motorcycles, work pick up trucks, boats, piston airplanes, semi trucks, and other machines catches up to him occasionally and shows his lack of knowledge on some of the technical aspects.
The perfect transmission is a mechanical sequential with a clutch pedal, so you have all the fine control for delicate movements (And there's no software cooking the clutch for no reason when you're driving slowly in traffic - if you're riding the clutch that's on you) while still getting fast shifts without using the clutch while rolling. Rally cars use them, but as far as I know there has never been one sold in a production car. The main reason for that is the available sequential gearboxes use straight cut gears rather than much quieter but less efficient helical gears, so there's a very loud whine in the car all the time you're rolling. Listen to in car footage of rally driving and it's louder than the engine in a lot of cases, certainly in the cabin.
I have a car with a motorcycle engine and transmission, and I've long said that a fully mechanical sequential manual is the best transmission for spirited driving. However, as soon as you put a computer between your hand and the cogs, you lose a lot of the engagement.
Which is why I love T-Rex's. They are 2 wheels in the front and a huge tire in the back with a motorcycle engine and transmission. So fast it will split the hairs on your forehead in half.
the fact you could be talking about a smartfortwo with this statement is funny, but also telling that if people got over their egos a bit there's a bit of fun to be had with them lol.
Having owned a PDK GT3 and now have an F430 with the F1 transmission, I completely agree with Doug. The F1 transmission in the F430 is so much more engaging and fun to drive versus the PDK in the GT3. It’s basically a manual without the clutch pedal and is so much fun in a weekend car because of that engagement and mechanical feel. Definitely not the fastest, but who cares when it puts a smile on your face every drive
I think something to keep in mind is that as people age, their hips and knees wear out. Someone who likes a standard manual in their youth may find it painful to drive as they reach retirement age. That person may still want a sports car (or may just finally be getting to the point in their life where they can afford one) with manual control, but may find it painful and impractical to operate a clutch. That's where transmissions like these come in.
Doug!! I love it!! This is exactly what I have been saying for years. I can never forget the feeling in my dads BMW E60 M5 with the high revving 5.0L V10 paired with the 7-speed SMG-3 transmission. It was absolute raw power, feeling like a bucking bronco in M mode. The shifts were fast, probably faster than you could do yourself with a traditional H-pattern manual gearbox, and would ram the clutch shut on a flat foot upshift. One of the adjectives that comes to mind is "violent" which felt appropriate with the V10 screaming above 6500rpm as you tipped the paddle up through the gears. Whether drifting one of the most balanced front engine cars or just feeling the endless horsepower as you accelerated rapidly to 2 or 3 times the speed limit, the overall feel of the car is one that produces possibly the most smiles per mile in my humble opinion. Can't forget it was basically the only non-supercar of its time to break the 200mph mark as Top Gear demonstrated 😁 Other points: - The normal every day (non M mode) driving transmission feel and performance is greatly enhanced by shifting yourself and letting off the gas momentarily as you mentioned. I find this to be as satisfying as a manual in terms of feeling connected to the car, and in a way more refined because the process of tip paddle, cut throttle, then roll back on the gas to be smoother than the alternate with a manual clutch and H-pattern. - For performance driving, driver workload is a thing. Having control over the shift points is important vs. an automatic, but being able to shift up or down while keeping both hands on the wheel and your left foot exclusively for the brake is really the way a vehicle is meant to be driven in my opinion. The goal is to drive, requiring inputs for gas, brake, turning, and shifts - needing to take a hand off the steering wheel and have one more pedal than you have feet simply is inefficient and takes away concentration from what actually matters, controlling the motion of the car. This is a fact referenced by professional race car drivers and teams when they were discussing the transition to SMG or dual clutch transmissions with paddles. - The cost is real - people haven't caught on yet to how amazing the SMG is in certain cars. This is good for us SMG lovers so please Doug don't go around telling everyone!
Engagement is what is lacking from modern cars. Cars with issues like jerky sequential manual transmissions are more exciting to handle to try and drive around the deficits.
Corrects there is no theater or drama it just does it quietly. Great for the average person, not the enthiast. If that's the experience you're looking for, it's called an EV effort free low maintenance driving
@clonecommandermike332 Human beings don't understand this until we get rid of it. But we like imperfection because it adds character to things. The reason I like shooting film instead of my smartphone. The smartphone is better in every way, but it's not the experience of shooting film.
Fortwo's also had the semi-auto, always loved hearing the screaming three cyl from behind my head, first time I drove one I was uncontrollably laughing because you wouldn't think a fortwo would roar like that, but it really is just a high-revving motorcycle engine in the trunk, kinda miss the thing lmao. Very much an enthusiast car though now in the states since Benz doesn't service them anymore and parts are harder to get.
@@jadesded Yeah I've driven my fair share of ForTwo's as well and they're also incredibly fun. Everyone is clowning on Smart Cars but I'm convinced everyone that does hasn't actually driven one. Luckily parts are more plentiful here in Europe for the ForTwo but for the Roadster it's also becoming quite a challenge. I had a service a couple months ago, nothing too crazy but the bill was nearly $2000 just because parts are getting scarce
I'v had the same metamorphosis. Rented a Smart ForTwo a year ago and even before driving that I was so excited to try the transmission and surprised at myself because I had no idea when my sentiment changed. Then I drove it for a few days, super fun trans. Btw Smart says stay on the accelerator, so I guess it depends. Edit: it's an automated manual, Doug
Doug is right! I’ve owned a M3 with an SMG transmission and I thought it was a process to get used to but once I perfected the shifts I loved it and other than reliability issues I think it’s very charismatic and one day it’ll be sought after
Came here to say this. Doug is the type of guy to explain to me, perfectly, why I love my SMG in my E46 M3. The price difference just doesn't justify the 6MT for a daily driver in my eyes. I picked up my SMG Vert for probably $10-$15k less than a coupe 6MT car with the same options. I can do a lot of fuel fill ups and tires for that price difference!
From someone who recently purchased an R8 V10 with the r-tronic and had it converted to manual. I have to state the car is completely different feeling after the conversion. You do have the lift with the r-tronic to get smooth shifts but even with that it felt SO dated and annoying to drive (very dependent on speeds/pace) and enjoy. Post conversion the car is an absolute delight to drive at any speeds with the gated manual. Conversions are really the appropriate answer here. You can get a car you like (spec wise) and save yourself money.
@@taylorc2542 PDK is made by ZF, but ironically they make a better transmission ZF8hp. But double irony, its only fault is its too good, so the inconsistent and occasionally clunky mechanicalness that makes automated mechanicals feel sportier than dual clutch, also applies to that comparison as well. Cheers.
@@taylorc2542 The Torque Converter is one of the reasons its better, its programmed to fully 100% lock-up as soon as feasible in all gears with super efficiency, with all the benefits of smoothness and torque multiplication benefits. There are internal clutches for planetary gears. Enjoy whatever gearbox you like, no problem. Cheers.
@@drtoneThe fluid still turns in the TQ... And the pump probably runs too? Sure it doesn't the load anymore, but it still isn't a match for a proper dryclutch DSG.
I had a Grigio Ingrid 360 F1 years ago and I experienced none of the stated drawbacks. Was it as fast as a more modern DC, no, but it was raw and fast shifting. I never lifted to up shift and would laugh at anyone who did. I quite enjoyed that car and would love to have another some day. Only drawback I had was the potential for eye watering repair if something failed. Perhaps some of the drawbacks were more towards SMG or other brands which I havent’ had experience with over the years. Admittedly the only SM car I’ve driven was the 360.
Doug is the kind of guy to make this video to get the prices to increase on sequential transmission cars to catch up to three pedal cars on Cars & Bids.
F1 transmissions aren't the same as sequential transmissions, but we get the message. True sequentials are found on motorycyles, but they also exist for cars. Btw, true sequentials can shift instantaneously like dcts. That's, like, their main benefit. And, to be clear, an F1 transmission is merely a sequential with an automated clutch. However, that distincition is one that counteracts the primary reason for the sequential in the first place. Automating the clutch makes it shift slower because it has to engage/disengage the clutch every time, whereas a sequential can upshift and downshift without the clutch in certain conditions.
There’s one more negative to mention: The BMW version on my 3 series decided to shift itself into neutral and lock itself there…while I was cruising along at 70 + mph in the left lane of a Los Angeles freeway. I had to drift across three lanes of traffic with no power in order to make an escape. Amazingly, I not only made it across, but I managed to roll down a nearby exit ramp onto a side street before I pulled over and called for help. That was it for sequential gearboxes for me. I would never suggest that anyone go near one.
That's exactly why I have never trusted anything other than the Three pedal manuals. anything Auto that's controlled by any kind of computer relating to transmissions can do what it wants when it wants and you're helpless. with the manuals you have 100% control of what to do and how to do it.
Doug, there are still some European cars that use the automated manual transmission. The European Abarth 595/695 can still be bought new with what they call the MTA transmission. This transmission actually suits the raw, mechanical feel of this car quite well. It goes with the rock hard ride and loud exhaust, actually adding to the mechanical character of the drive. The Fiat 500 is still also sold in some markets with an AMT instead of a torque converter transmission. The Abarth version is nicer because it shifts quite alot faster, especially in Sport mode. Several Alfa Romeo models throughout the 2000's also used a Selespeed transmission, even paired with the Busso V6. It's also worth pointing out that some current, Indian made economy cars are sold with automated manual transmissions. Several Suzuki and Hyundai models use it with varying degrees of refinemement.
Porsche didn’t introduce the automated manual as they had already invented the Porsche Doppelkupplungsgetriebe (PDK) for racing in 1984, and they knew it was a superior product.
The people hating on sequential manual transmissions should note that their cult favourite, the Lexus LFA, even had one. It acts exactly like a manual transmission, but with fewer chances for a clutch to stress out and wear off on stop-and-go traffic. I like the idea.
Title is a perfect Doug clickbait title, suckering automotive experts to comment on true sequential manual transmissions which also have manual clutches to release driveline pressure while shifting. Sequential transmissions are found on most consumer motorcylcles, and on some rally and race cars. Semi-automated single clutch (e46 m3) or semi-automated dual clutch (common on manynof today's higher mowered sporty cars) is something different. And with good programming, flappy paddles can doba good job shifting a ZF traditional automatic (bmw m4.0i series).
I agree! I owned an e46 M3 with the SMG, and it's actually quite fun once you figure out it. The main key is you need to modulate the throttle similar to how you would do it in a manual, just without a clutch pedal, and you can use a slow clutch engagement to compensate for bad throttle. Also, "it's slow" needs some qualification. At least in the BMW, it shifts fast and smooth at high RPM and under high acceleration. It's obviously not going to be as fast or smooth as a dual clutch transmission, but it's pretty good. It's at low speed that's a problem. Driving around your neighborhood or in stop and go rush hour traffic it can be from awkward to brutal.
I had a BMW SMG transmission in a 2003 Z4 3.0i and when I first received the car I had buyers regret over the gearbox. It was really really slow. But a couple weeks into ownership there was a software update that made it much better, and then I was able to enjoy that car. In sport mode the shifts were were fast and precise, and the rev-matched downshifts were wonderful (and better than I could do myself).
I owned a GTI Mk6 with DSG. Simply put, it was the BEST transmission I ever used. I've had a few manuals (that I liked) but nothing compared with the DSG. You could drive it like a lighting-quick shifter, or leave it alone and let the auto-mode do all the leg-work while stuck in traffic. To me, there has been nothing better since. I now enjoy it in my 2017 Golf Alltrack all the time (which I liked more than my 2018 GTI!) and use it to pass almost daily. I would love to own another manual (as a second-car), but a DSG is really an ideal solution for the enthusiast that too often gets stuck in commuter lanes. And no matter what anyone says, you simply cannot shift faster than a DSG. It only had two minor issues: 1. On a hill, it was a little tough to shift it into reverse. 2. The shifts and lower speed (between 1st and 2nd) could be a little jerky, but that is it. In my Mk6 GTI, I just loved it. LOVED IT! I would take on curves through canyons as if it was the highlight of my day (which was often a 70-minute drive) back and forth between Napa and Sonoma counties. Pure JOY!!!!!!!
I also always liked them. The dual clutches and all of those fast shifting ones seem to make you more bored, feels like less is happening compared to when you literally do a backflip in your seat every gear change
I drove an '08 Audi R8 for 395 days and 17k miles with the R-Tronic transmission. Within less than 10 days I was HYPED about how it drove! It was such a cool experience when accelerating AND decelerating. In my opinion, a lot of car opinions are from "trends" or popular "hot takes", not actually from experience. Myself included in that statement, just not this one as I had first hand experience lol
My first car was smart fortwo first generation. That car had an automatic manual transmission. A learning curve was involved in making the car feel like it had an automatic torque converter gearbox. I enjoyed driving that car swiftly and smoothly. Driving that car up a mountain round smoothly and fast was a fun challenge. I sometimes look at a smart roadster coupe brabus in the classifieds, and think maybe maybe!
Porsche offered the 4 speed ‘Sportomatic’ in the early 1970’s. In this case however a driver was expected to shift the gear lever and the car handled the clutch automatically using a servo motor along with a torque converter.
Doug DeMuro likes the sequential manual transmission (SMT) for several reasons despite its general unpopularity: Mechanical Feel: Unlike the seamless and sanitized experience of dual-clutch transmissions (DCTs) or the smoothness of traditional automatics, SMTs offer a mechanical feel. Drivers can feel the gears changing and the transmission doing its work, which provides a more engaging and tactile driving experience. Driver Input: Operating an SMT requires some driver effort to get it right, similar to a manual transmission. For example, pulling the paddle and backing off the accelerator to allow the gear change, then rolling back onto the throttle. This involvement makes driving more interactive and rewarding for enthusiasts. Nostalgia and Uniqueness: In an era where driving experiences are becoming more automated and sanitized, the raw and less refined nature of SMTs stands out. DeMuro appreciates this difference, as it brings back a sense of old-school driving. Cost Consideration: Traditional manuals are often significantly more expensive than their automatic counterparts. While a true manual transmission is preferable, the price difference can make SMTs a more practical alternative for those wanting a semi-manual driving experience without the hefty cost. Overall, DeMuro's appreciation for SMTs stems from their unique mechanical feel, the requirement for driver skill, their nostalgic value, and their cost-effectiveness compared to traditional manuals. Saved you 10 minutes.
Sportomatic. The forgotten and unloved Porsche transmission is what many people want but don’t realize it. It’s the best of both worlds: involvement of the stick shift, performance of the flappy paddle SMG/F1 boxes.
6:40 This is funnily enough the same way to drive a normal automatic fast and efficiently. You press the gas to the floor, let go a bit at like 3000rpm to entice a gear shift, and then floor it again
I'm with you! One of the things we all love about manuals is the satisfaction of getting the smooth shift in. dual clutch / torque converters don't give you this. As you said: it's a little obvious. Too perfect. I had a wonderful long weekend with a Gallardo many years ago with the dreaded e-gear. After spending 20 minutes hating it in auto-mode, I found the joy of finessing the gear change in manual mode.
You do not have to lift off the throttle when shifting the 355F1. Downshifts are more involved because the car does not automatically rev match. There’s some heel-toe required to get it right. It’s a ton of fun to drive
Another great video from Doug. I appreciate you addressing the elephant in the room. I've always been a die-hard manual transmission fan, but my perspective changed about 15 years ago when I bought my second E46 M3 with the SMG transmission. Initially, I intended to convert it to a manual, but once I figured out the correct settings and timing, I found it surprisingly enjoyable. While all my cars are manuals, my latest addition, a 575M with an F1 automated manual, has been super fun to drive. It took a few drives to get the timing right, but now I’m having a blast despite its “terrible” reputation. Don’t let naysayers stop you from buying a car you might actually like-try it yourself, as YMMV.
I drove a few different Astons with these gearboxes. Actualy when you put them in manual mode and shift yourself. And i used them the way you explain. You can even revvmatch them if you have the feeling for it. These cars become way more alive if you use them this way.
I agree ! It’s the second best thing to a actual 3 pedal clutch. Same technology sort off as the superbike quick shifter. Works well since a shift can happen easily without clutch if you time the shift correctly with release torque to the transmission. Good stuff.
As an owner of a 2010 E63 M6 with the SMG, I get a little bit of where Doug is coming from, but the criticisms of the SMG are well deserved imo. The clunkiness of the SMG driving around the city really isn’t ideal, and the cost of owning one like you said will keep a lot of ppl away. It’s a great transmission on the highway and around the track, but outside of that the advancements we’ve made since are obvious like you said.
@@computiNATEor you know it’s funny how a lot of the manuals I’ve seen actually tend to be just like yours. I think it’s because owners tend to bypass the maintenance more because they can still make money off the manuals despite the neglect. Not saying you’re neglecting yours, but I’m guessing yours is a higher mileage example or you’re paying for the previous owner’s neglect or both lol. Mine has been nothing but good to me, knock on wood, because the previous owner took amazing care of it and it’s a pristine low mileage example. Service history is really everything with these cars, and it took me years to find one as clean as mine
@@youtubeuser1466the manual has another downside to it: The ratios aren’t as good as the SMG III, because surprise surprise, the SMG III (Getrag 247) was made exclusively for the M5 and M6 instead of being an “off the shelf” gearbox like the ZF S6-53 is
@@youtubeuser1466 My car came with a stack of maintenance receipts and yet it’s still been unreliable. Yeah, 161k miles isn’t nothing, but it’s also not a lot. Things that have been replaced in my ownership - rod bearings, high pressure vanos pump and line, all coils and spark plugs, dampers, EDC module, all four throttle and idle actuators, all drive belts and pulleys, thermostat, coolant hoses, oil filter housing, rear diff seals, driveshaft rebuild, and more. And it’s still giving me an intermittent misfire on cylinder 1.
I ve always said this: One of the most amazing cars that uses this technology is the E60 M5. Now I know that the American market ones were offered with a 6 speed manual too, and SMG to manual swaps are everywhere, but I truly think that the SMG is the way to go. Driven as it's supposed to, foot to the floor even during shifts, ferocity setting at its highest, the SMG will shock the heck out of you at every shift, making it one of the most aggresive and intense cars ever produced. As opposed to the manual, which isn't really suited for that insane engine and makes it just a fun cruiser. People should learn to appreciate things the way they were meant to be. Not everything is a Mustang with a manual
My friend owned a 430 Scuderia Spider 16M. Complete with its 6-speed F1 gearbox. I was lucky enough to join him for a spin, and he took it into Sport mode (not even Race). That gearbox is properly barmy. The shift is brutal but lightning-fast, and the downshift is angry. I absolutely love it, more than later DCT on 458, 488 and F8 surprisingly. R8's R-Tronic gearbox is also quite fun as well. Not a fan of e-Gear, though, still a little sluggish.
Rallies are the acme of competition. The required skills are unique. Since the 80s they resorted to innovative transmissions. European drivers dominate the Rally competitions. Namely in the US, the Pikes Peak International Hill Climb -- Colorado This year, June 23th. Watch Sebastian Loeb's 2013 record in a Peugeot 205 bi-turbo. And Michelle Mouton, the only Female winning Rallies in the 80s driving an Audi Quatro -- the Pikes Peak Road was still unpaved. She was amazing, driving the Audi --- on a Cliffside, old-fashioned, dirt road. Recently, the Cliffside Road has been paved, affording higher speeds. After all, both were used to compete all over Europe, through extremely narrow roads, dirt or gravel pavements, often covered with snow...
I completely agree with these sentiments. What I really dislike is when others will bash, insult, and demean others for driving automatics in whatever form. It's unnecessary and makes so many car "enthusiasts" look like total aholes. If shifting with paddles is your thing, then awesome! Drive what makes you happy!
I think you’re right Doug, as long as I love manuals, the extra cost for certain models isn’t worth it. I’d prefer having a flappy paddles Lambo than no Lambo. It was so cool that you had the choice between both transmission. Even back then, manuals were low production but they still offered it. Anything offered today would be 10x times cooler with a manual. Imagine an Huracan or GTR with a 6 speed manual…
With the way to perform a gear change in a single clutch automated manual, all of it is right, but what Ive learned is that is all the case unless you are at full throttle in the most aggressive setting, then the car is usually programmed to accommodate for that and wants you to keep you foot flat during shifts.
I’m with you. I never thought I’d like the automated manuals but I bit the bullet and bought one and absolutely love it. Sure, it’s not perfect, but it offers a mechanical connection to the car that is much better than a more traditional auto or a dual clutch. You can actually feel the clutch engaging and the gearbox going into gear just like a manual. I personally love mine and would never consider a manual swap. It is reflective of the technology of an era and the car was engineered that way. I love it and am considering adding another to my garage.
Great discussion. Probably the only video discussing the “psychology” of driving the SMG versus technical/mechanical aspects. The only thing I still don’t understand with SMGs is what problem they’re trying to solve.
Shift times are actually better than manual if you get a GOOD robotized, plus some 7 speed ones (SMG III for BMW, ISR for Lamborghini) are actually quite innovative in how they work: they disengage a synchro whilst engaging another, as the synchros aren’t traditional where you have gears 1-2 on the same synchro, but rather you have gears 1-3 on the same synchro, and then 2-4 in another. Besides, they do add convenience to a 7 speed box. A 6 speed may be easier to H-pattern, and although H 7 speeds do exist, 7th is usually not used for top speed (it’s 6th). Both cars I’ve mentioned use all of their 7 gears.
Cool video. The underlying theme here is that once you reach a certain level of net worth, you can then explore the difference "hobby" flavors of unique auto experiences. You can apply this to other hobbies as well. When you have so much money and you get bored with the norm., you start looking for other "new" things to focus on.
Driving my BMW E64 M6 with an SMG was challenging at first. However, after driving a few miles, I realized a few things… and a lot of these Doug was able to address. #1 - Not a traditional torque converting automatic, an SMG is a manual, it’s in the name!!!! The driver must behave with the accelerator as if they are pushing in a clutch shifting the transmission and letting out the clutch with every Drive (D) mode shift. Select (S) mode gives you the control and more coordination with the right foot while the car shifts. #2 - The S85 loves to live above 6,000 rpm. This is an M! Shifting is much more smooth and way way way less jerky in the higher revs, but the driver must still behave with the accelerator. Also, I had to get acclimated to driving a car that can rev to over 8,000 rpm. It sounds way too high, it’s an F1 engine. #3 - Without a 3rd pedal, the driver’s Left foot stays wonderfully planted to the car, resulting in an amazing connection and feel for what the car is doing. #4 - Both hands on the wheel at all times is very nice when navigating winding roads. #5 - Amazingly adjustable settings by BMW allows you to dial in whatever experience you lean towards. Check out my auction on Cars and Bids… carsandbids.com/auctions/9lDBbYNz/2010-bmw-m6-convertible Most who complain about these transmissions seem to simply want a traditional torque converting automatic, or the amazing DCT. Are there any other S85 SMG owners that feel similarly?!
For me more so seeing the value that the represent if you could manual swap them, for instance buying a 599 for 150k - 225k and manual swapping of for about 50k gives you pretty much the factory manual transmission experience for a fraction of the cost
I enjoy the flippers as hand brakes on curves and hills. That said, I use those "handbrakes" to lower my gears and not rely on my brakes so much. I prefer a controlled coast around the bend or up and down steeper grade.
Agree with everything you said, EXCEPT you're not supposed to lift when shifting, at least not for Ferrari/Maserati's systems. The manual is very explicit and says for the best shifts do not lift. When you lift you're confusing the TCU which thinks you're trying to slow down, which backs off the aggressiveness of the shifts.
My SAAB 9-5 turbo has sentronic shift paddles but the upshift is jammed...i used to love switching to manual mode every once and a while when it was functional.
Its crazy to me that more people dont like them! I absolutely loved smg in my e60 m5, more so than a 6spd. Something about those clunky, extremely aggressive shifts were so cool to me.
Looking at that Lamborghini in the background is funny because Doug has always been a fan of cars that don’t say look at me. And now he owns the most look at me car
Doug loves car but he's businessman first, and who prefers to see a camry over a lambo in a podcast background? If he believes the Pontiac Aztek value would blow up in the future, he'd have owned one too.
@@miky702 I doubt Doug would go Aztek even he knew it would have 250GTO investment trajectory. He's a car guy first! That would be heresy. I did just chuckle imagining Doug doing an enthusiastic Cars & Bids presentation for an Aztek though.
If the Pontiac Aztek went to 250 gto prices I would buy as many as I could realistically afford and use the money from selling them to buy actually good cars lol
He has always had cool cars but the ones that aren’t so in your face. He says that in a lot of videos. Most of his previous cars weren’t flashy. But when the bank account fills up your tastes change
I've always enjoyed the BMW SMG in the first Z4 (E85), which my uncle drove from 2004, although I bought a manual for myself afterwards and which I never regretted on the other hand. Nice to hear that you agree with me now ... 😉
I have an R-tronic V10 R8 and love it. I also had a 2003 M3 SMG and it was a fantastic gearbox where you can change the shifting speed. I think it was more refined than the Audi box.
The "F1" / automated clutch transmissions are crazy expensive to maintain and/or fix. You have a clutch to service and most times its recommended to change the flywheel too. The hydraulic pumps and solenoids break. You also have an automated slave cylinder, release bearing, clutch fork, pivot bushing, and hydraulic lines that can all go bad. And its commonly agreed that all of these parts typically don't even work well together for a cohesive product and ends up being clunky. If you want harder shifts, there are ways of doing it in torque converter transmission as well as dual clutches. In fact I bet there's ways to tune those types of transmissions to emulate the clunkiness of an "F1" transmission - if you really want it that bad! Eco, Normal, Sport, Track, and Clunk mode
Not every sequential manual requires lifting off the throttle when shifting. The SMG III in the M5/M6 is refined enough that the computer auto matches the rev when up/down shifting, and the owner's manual specifically say to drive it like a normal automatic without lifting when shifting. I daily mine and it's been fine, the only annoying scenario is inching forward during stop and go traffic, but that's the same as a normal manual car.
My only experience is a torque converter 6 speed, but it having a proper manual mode with paddle shifters is fun, there was a learning curve to get the shifts smoother, as well as understanding how to time shifts and pre-shifting for the lag. I still want to get a manual cuz it seems more fun and engaging, so that's on the cards in the future.
I was lucky enough to track a Lamborghini Aventador SVJ and a Porsche 911 GT3RS, back to back at Rockingham Raceway in Corby, England. The Porsche gear changes were super impressive, smooth and instant, but for that reason, it might have just as well been a full on automatic. The Lambo, with its single clutch box, was on the other hand full of drama. Each time you pulled for a gear, it would clunk hard and smack the back of your head into the head rest. It felt like a manual box would each time you drop the clutch. Result? Stepping out of both cars, my pulse was waaay higher coming out the lambo than it was out of the Porsche. And at the end of the day, that’s what it’s all about, isn’t it?
Bought a SMG M3 in Covid and thought it was great. You have to apply skill to drive it and mechanical knowledge. And, you can drive it on a auto license so surely future values are strong as fewer manual licenses are out there
I’m with you, Doug! I even liked the smart fortwo’s (very slow) automated manual! There’s something very mechanical and interesting about an automated manual, coupled with the finesse to get smooth shifts (just like you would with a manual), it’s an experience.
Next great debate - better to have the paddles on the wheel, or attached to the steering column? Personally, while I understand the argument that column attached paddles don't move, hence you always know where they are, I prefer attached to the wheel, where my hands are.
Been saying this since 2018. The only experience I have with exotics was one of those pay to drive on track experiences in Vegas. I drove a 488 gtb then an early aventador. It’s probably not as dramatic as other sequentials but MAN was shifting gears on the straights in the lambo so much more fun. I’ll always prioritize fun over lap times and my god was the lambo more fun. I actually posted faster lap times in the aventador over the 488. I’m sure a lot of it had to do with me driving the 488 first and it took a bit to get comfortable with the lines and brake zones but I’d love to think part of it was me just getting fired up driving the aventador. So much more fun. That screaming v12 didn’t hurt either.
I understand Doug's point. And i understand why manuals are so expensive. But, both Doug and the market are wrong. We should only look at this time and see it as the beginning of the trend of unnecessary changes and technology that nobody wanted. Supercars from the era should have been manual only, as they always were before. Some sport luxury cars could've offered TC tips, is suppose 😒. But accepting this is accepting the crap we have to deal with now that nobody wanted. Don't be complacent, rage against the dying of the light! As for the market value difference between sequential and gods gift to enthusiasts, the manuals should only sell for the price of a manual swap plus maybe 5% for the headache of having to get it done over the sequential. Most of the vehicles have a manual swap option.
😂i agree with this. I had an e46 m3 smg for 3 years and it was the most fun car I have ever driven. That gearbox and the inline 6 that rev so fast to 8000rpm was a match made in heaven. The realiability scared me and I sold it. But damn I have never experience anything else more fun. The dual clutches are clearly not as fun. In fact i think it is even more fun than a manual. You can actually feel every upshift and downshift and you have to work for it. It felt brutal
Lift off the gas when changing gears ? Seems like the engineers missed out on a good opportunity to interrupt the engine power another, better way (like momentarily cut the spark plug juice?). Not new for motorcycles that have solenoid actuated shifters. However, when I was driving a stick manual compared to now (DSG) the thing I miss most is being able to go from 1st to 3rd directly when I'm just trundling along slowly in residential areas.
Hey Doug, is that you?! Remember how you ripped apart the Maserati Quattroporte?! 😄 The fact is, if you want it to work, it will work and it is fun. If you don't want it to work smoothly or if you don't care, then it will not work! I love my Quattroporte and I enjoy every single gear shift that I constantly negotiate with my car, and I celebtrate every single successfull shift action! It may sound absurd, but it really is a lot of fun! I was surprised by this video of yours, but I like it a lot! 🙂
Just bought a Mazda Cx90 inline 6 Turbo. It's got flappy paddles. Honestly it's something I'm looking forward to. If my wife and I are only going to get one car, I would like the option to be sporty.
I think the MCT in my C63 fits the character of the car. The shifts in sport plus are so brutal. Definitely slow in manual mode and always slipping the clutch driving around town.
Doug is the kind of guy to confuse automated-manuals with sequential-manuals.
Sequential manual transmission is growing on him 8:43 i guess Doug is the type od guy to drive a lot of cars with this type of transmission, really, he must be starting a racing career
Doug is clearly trying to raise the values of all of his sequential manuals 😂
He briefly mentioned the same thing a couple years back in a car review IIRC (F40/50 or similar)
What sequential manual cars does he have?
@@maudlewis8536That's the joke
1 alone could never achieve that ... atleast Worldwide
@@PhilippevanHeekthe seq manual or any particular thing being increased
His terminology is wrong. The correct term is automated manual transmission. A sequential manual transmission still has a clutch pedal these cars do not. A sequential manual transmission has a gear lever that moves in only one axis (forward and back) connected to the transmission or alternatively paddle shifters that actuate solenoids to do that. A automated manual transmission just has normal automatic style gear lever and the cars computer modules take care of the rest including the clutch actuation. Sequential manual transmissions are only for race cars and maybe some special homologation race cars, they usually feature dog engagement not synchros and also straight cut gear sets. The drive ability of a manual sequential is such that it’s totally impractical for a road car. And to be clear to all you yanks, a sequential manual is not a type of automatic!
Glad someone pointed this out
Toyota got this terminology wrong with their SMT and BMW with their SMG then haha but I understand what you mean
Most motorcycles have sequential manual transmissions. Since they are shifted with the toe, you can’t move the lever through several gates. The automated manual transmissions can be converted to manual transmissions if parts or kits are available.
Yeah he got that wrong. If Doug ever had a motorcycle, he would know the true difference. Just because the BMW SMG uses it in the title its not a true sequential transmission. He's a walking car encyclopedia in some ways but him not having been around motorcycles, work pick up trucks, boats, piston airplanes, semi trucks, and other machines catches up to him occasionally and shows his lack of knowledge on some of the technical aspects.
The perfect transmission is a mechanical sequential with a clutch pedal, so you have all the fine control for delicate movements (And there's no software cooking the clutch for no reason when you're driving slowly in traffic - if you're riding the clutch that's on you) while still getting fast shifts without using the clutch while rolling. Rally cars use them, but as far as I know there has never been one sold in a production car. The main reason for that is the available sequential gearboxes use straight cut gears rather than much quieter but less efficient helical gears, so there's a very loud whine in the car all the time you're rolling. Listen to in car footage of rally driving and it's louder than the engine in a lot of cases, certainly in the cabin.
0:30 Doug giving the technical description of the subject matter
That’s when I finally knew what he was talking about 😂
Doug definitely gave all his highschool girlfriends the motorcar during foreplay
I have a car with a motorcycle engine and transmission, and I've long said that a fully mechanical sequential manual is the best transmission for spirited driving. However, as soon as you put a computer between your hand and the cogs, you lose a lot of the engagement.
Mythic super fast Matt sighting
I think you're so rad
Which is why I love T-Rex's. They are 2 wheels in the front and a huge tire in the back with a motorcycle engine and transmission. So fast it will split the hairs on your forehead in half.
the fact you could be talking about a smartfortwo with this statement is funny, but also telling that if people got over their egos a bit there's a bit of fun to be had with them lol.
"THISSSSSSSS....SSSSSSSSS".
My god that echo 😂
Why does the translation add an s lol
@@TheDudesperadothiss❤sssssssss❤ssssssss❤❤❤❤sssss❤❤❤❤
@@TheDudesperado Clearly in English, you replace a dot with an S to achieve the optimal "THIS" experience.
@@jkliao6486 oh, I see! We simply cannot undermine the perfection of thissssssssssssssssssssssss+s🤣
Having owned a PDK GT3 and now have an F430 with the F1 transmission, I completely agree with Doug. The F1 transmission in the F430 is so much more engaging and fun to drive versus the PDK in the GT3. It’s basically a manual without the clutch pedal and is so much fun in a weekend car because of that engagement and mechanical feel. Definitely not the fastest, but who cares when it puts a smile on your face every drive
I think something to keep in mind is that as people age, their hips and knees wear out. Someone who likes a standard manual in their youth may find it painful to drive as they reach retirement age. That person may still want a sports car (or may just finally be getting to the point in their life where they can afford one) with manual control, but may find it painful and impractical to operate a clutch. That's where transmissions like these come in.
Doug!! I love it!! This is exactly what I have been saying for years. I can never forget the feeling in my dads BMW E60 M5 with the high revving 5.0L V10 paired with the 7-speed SMG-3 transmission. It was absolute raw power, feeling like a bucking bronco in M mode.
The shifts were fast, probably faster than you could do yourself with a traditional H-pattern manual gearbox, and would ram the clutch shut on a flat foot upshift. One of the adjectives that comes to mind is "violent" which felt appropriate with the V10 screaming above 6500rpm as you tipped the paddle up through the gears.
Whether drifting one of the most balanced front engine cars or just feeling the endless horsepower as you accelerated rapidly to 2 or 3 times the speed limit, the overall feel of the car is one that produces possibly the most smiles per mile in my humble opinion.
Can't forget it was basically the only non-supercar of its time to break the 200mph mark as Top Gear demonstrated 😁
Other points:
- The normal every day (non M mode) driving transmission feel and performance is greatly enhanced by shifting yourself and letting off the gas momentarily as you mentioned. I find this to be as satisfying as a manual in terms of feeling connected to the car, and in a way more refined because the process of tip paddle, cut throttle, then roll back on the gas to be smoother than the alternate with a manual clutch and H-pattern.
- For performance driving, driver workload is a thing. Having control over the shift points is important vs. an automatic, but being able to shift up or down while keeping both hands on the wheel and your left foot exclusively for the brake is really the way a vehicle is meant to be driven in my opinion. The goal is to drive, requiring inputs for gas, brake, turning, and shifts - needing to take a hand off the steering wheel and have one more pedal than you have feet simply is inefficient and takes away concentration from what actually matters, controlling the motion of the car. This is a fact referenced by professional race car drivers and teams when they were discussing the transition to SMG or dual clutch transmissions with paddles.
- The cost is real - people haven't caught on yet to how amazing the SMG is in certain cars. This is good for us SMG lovers so please Doug don't go around telling everyone!
Engagement is what is lacking from modern cars. Cars with issues like jerky sequential manual transmissions are more exciting to handle to try and drive around the deficits.
Just get a manual
Engagement, also known as design flaws
Corrects there is no theater or drama it just does it quietly. Great for the average person, not the enthiast. If that's the experience you're looking for, it's called an EV effort free low maintenance driving
@clonecommandermike332 Human beings don't understand this until we get rid of it. But we like imperfection because it adds character to things. The reason I like shooting film instead of my smartphone. The smartphone is better in every way, but it's not the experience of shooting film.
I own a Smart Roadster with a sequential manual transmission and yeah it's slow but I can't deny it's hella fun to drive
Fortwo's also had the semi-auto, always loved hearing the screaming three cyl from behind my head, first time I drove one I was uncontrollably laughing because you wouldn't think a fortwo would roar like that, but it really is just a high-revving motorcycle engine in the trunk, kinda miss the thing lmao. Very much an enthusiast car though now in the states since Benz doesn't service them anymore and parts are harder to get.
@@jadesded Yeah I've driven my fair share of ForTwo's as well and they're also incredibly fun. Everyone is clowning on Smart Cars but I'm convinced everyone that does hasn't actually driven one. Luckily parts are more plentiful here in Europe for the ForTwo but for the Roadster it's also becoming quite a challenge. I had a service a couple months ago, nothing too crazy but the bill was nearly $2000 just because parts are getting scarce
I'v had the same metamorphosis. Rented a Smart ForTwo a year ago and even before driving that I was so excited to try the transmission and surprised at myself because I had no idea when my sentiment changed. Then I drove it for a few days, super fun trans. Btw Smart says stay on the accelerator, so I guess it depends.
Edit: it's an automated manual, Doug
Having used one in my friend's Aston Martin Vantage, and having owned one in my Ferrari 360 Modena, they're great and really underrated.
Learning the "Tiff lift" helped a ton when smoothing the shift of my '08 M5.
Doug is right! I’ve owned a M3 with an SMG transmission and I thought it was a process to get used to but once I perfected the shifts I loved it and other than reliability issues I think it’s very charismatic and one day it’ll be sought after
Came here to say this. Doug is the type of guy to explain to me, perfectly, why I love my SMG in my E46 M3. The price difference just doesn't justify the 6MT for a daily driver in my eyes. I picked up my SMG Vert for probably $10-$15k less than a coupe 6MT car with the same options. I can do a lot of fuel fill ups and tires for that price difference!
From someone who recently purchased an R8 V10 with the r-tronic and had it converted to manual. I have to state the car is completely different feeling after the conversion. You do have the lift with the r-tronic to get smooth shifts but even with that it felt SO dated and annoying to drive (very dependent on speeds/pace) and enjoy. Post conversion the car is an absolute delight to drive at any speeds with the gated manual. Conversions are really the appropriate answer here. You can get a car you like (spec wise) and save yourself money.
Doug, perhaps do a follow-up video where you rank the sequential shift transmissions.
PDK is still the gold standard.
@@taylorc2542 PDK is made by ZF, but ironically they make a better transmission ZF8hp. But double irony, its only fault is its too good, so the inconsistent and occasionally clunky mechanicalness that makes automated mechanicals feel sportier than dual clutch, also applies to that comparison as well. Cheers.
@@drtone8HP has a torque converter and is not nearly as efficient. Lot of heat lost in a TC.
@@taylorc2542 The Torque Converter is one of the reasons its better, its programmed to fully 100% lock-up as soon as feasible in all gears with super efficiency, with all the benefits of smoothness and torque multiplication benefits. There are internal clutches for planetary gears. Enjoy whatever gearbox you like, no problem. Cheers.
@@drtoneThe fluid still turns in the TQ... And the pump probably runs too? Sure it doesn't the load anymore, but it still isn't a match for a proper dryclutch DSG.
I had a Grigio Ingrid 360 F1 years ago and I experienced none of the stated drawbacks. Was it as fast as a more modern DC, no, but it was raw and fast shifting. I never lifted to up shift and would laugh at anyone who did. I quite enjoyed that car and would love to have another some day. Only drawback I had was the potential for eye watering repair if something failed. Perhaps some of the drawbacks were more towards SMG or other brands which I havent’ had experience with over the years. Admittedly the only SM car I’ve driven was the 360.
I dunno... Feels like Doug is running a pump-and-dump... 😂
Doug is the kind of guy to make this video to get the prices to increase on sequential transmission cars to catch up to three pedal cars on Cars & Bids.
Always enjoyed watching single clutch avantador's violent shifting.
F1 transmissions aren't the same as sequential transmissions, but we get the message. True sequentials are found on motorycyles, but they also exist for cars.
Btw, true sequentials can shift instantaneously like dcts. That's, like, their main benefit.
And, to be clear, an F1 transmission is merely a sequential with an automated clutch. However, that distincition is one that counteracts the primary reason for the sequential in the first place.
Automating the clutch makes it shift slower because it has to engage/disengage the clutch every time, whereas a sequential can upshift and downshift without the clutch in certain conditions.
There’s one more negative to mention: The BMW version on my 3 series decided to shift itself into neutral and lock itself there…while I was cruising along at 70 + mph in the left lane of a Los Angeles freeway. I had to drift across three lanes of traffic with no power in order to make an escape. Amazingly, I not only made it across, but I managed to roll down a nearby exit ramp onto a side street before I pulled over and called for help.
That was it for sequential gearboxes for me. I would never suggest that anyone go near one.
So scary. I’m glad you made it out okay
That's exactly why I have never trusted anything other than the Three pedal manuals. anything Auto that's controlled by any kind of computer relating to transmissions can do what it wants when it wants and you're helpless. with the manuals you have 100% control of what to do and how to do it.
Doug, there are still some European cars that use the automated manual transmission. The European Abarth 595/695 can still be bought new with what they call the MTA transmission. This transmission actually suits the raw, mechanical feel of this car quite well. It goes with the rock hard ride and loud exhaust, actually adding to the mechanical character of the drive. The Fiat 500 is still also sold in some markets with an AMT instead of a torque converter transmission. The Abarth version is nicer because it shifts quite alot faster, especially in Sport mode.
Several Alfa Romeo models throughout the 2000's also used a Selespeed transmission, even paired with the Busso V6.
It's also worth pointing out that some current, Indian made economy cars are sold with automated manual transmissions. Several Suzuki and Hyundai models use it with varying degrees of refinemement.
Porsche didn’t introduce the automated manual as they had already invented the Porsche Doppelkupplungsgetriebe (PDK) for racing in 1984, and they knew it was a superior product.
You forgot to mention the car using the PDK had rings… Four of them
@@satsumagt5284 The Porsche 956/962 also used a PDK around the same time as the Quattro S1
@@hellraiser1621 wow, that I did not know
@@satsumagt5284 Glad I could help you learn something new! :D
I always liked the single clutch automated manuals, they have their own character, especially the one in Aventador and Ferrari F430
The people hating on sequential manual transmissions should note that their cult favourite, the Lexus LFA, even had one.
It acts exactly like a manual transmission, but with fewer chances for a clutch to stress out and wear off on stop-and-go traffic. I like the idea.
The LFA is not even popular, I'm sure some people love them but it's never been a cult favorite.
SMTs are horrible in stop and go.
Some girl above you had the exact same observation, exact same words and all. That's crazy that two people had the exact same thought.
Title is a perfect Doug clickbait title, suckering automotive experts to comment on true sequential manual transmissions which also have manual clutches to release driveline pressure while shifting. Sequential transmissions are found on most consumer motorcylcles, and on some rally and race cars.
Semi-automated single clutch (e46 m3) or semi-automated dual clutch (common on manynof today's higher mowered sporty cars) is something different. And with good programming, flappy paddles can doba good job shifting a ZF traditional automatic (bmw m4.0i series).
I feel like he's falling off. His video about touch screens was pretty clikcbaity as well. I think he's doing it on purpose.
i think its obvious which one he's referring to and that he just used the wrong terminology on accident
I agree! I owned an e46 M3 with the SMG, and it's actually quite fun once you figure out it. The main key is you need to modulate the throttle similar to how you would do it in a manual, just without a clutch pedal, and you can use a slow clutch engagement to compensate for bad throttle. Also, "it's slow" needs some qualification. At least in the BMW, it shifts fast and smooth at high RPM and under high acceleration. It's obviously not going to be as fast or smooth as a dual clutch transmission, but it's pretty good. It's at low speed that's a problem. Driving around your neighborhood or in stop and go rush hour traffic it can be from awkward to brutal.
I had a BMW SMG transmission in a 2003 Z4 3.0i and when I first received the car I had buyers regret over the gearbox. It was really really slow. But a couple weeks into ownership there was a software update that made it much better, and then I was able to enjoy that car. In sport mode the shifts were were fast and precise, and the rev-matched downshifts were wonderful (and better than I could do myself).
I'm now realizing the pattern, Doug is doing a Sunday Op-Ed. Good one, love the evolution of the channel.
I owned a GTI Mk6 with DSG. Simply put, it was the BEST transmission I ever used. I've had a few manuals (that I liked) but nothing compared with the DSG. You could drive it like a lighting-quick shifter, or leave it alone and let the auto-mode do all the leg-work while stuck in traffic. To me, there has been nothing better since. I now enjoy it in my 2017 Golf Alltrack all the time (which I liked more than my 2018 GTI!) and use it to pass almost daily. I would love to own another manual (as a second-car), but a DSG is really an ideal solution for the enthusiast that too often gets stuck in commuter lanes. And no matter what anyone says, you simply cannot shift faster than a DSG. It only had two minor issues: 1. On a hill, it was a little tough to shift it into reverse. 2. The shifts and lower speed (between 1st and 2nd) could be a little jerky, but that is it. In my Mk6 GTI, I just loved it. LOVED IT! I would take on curves through canyons as if it was the highlight of my day (which was often a 70-minute drive) back and forth between Napa and Sonoma counties. Pure JOY!!!!!!!
Who doesn’t like unlocking easy mode on almost anything. This reminds me of that.
I've got it on my 2012 accord. Opening up the windows and sunroof on a nice sunny day, flip it into shift gear and it's like 8% more fun lol
I also always liked them. The dual clutches and all of those fast shifting ones seem to make you more bored, feels like less is happening compared to when you literally do a backflip in your seat every gear change
I drove an '08 Audi R8 for 395 days and 17k miles with the R-Tronic transmission. Within less than 10 days I was HYPED about how it drove! It was such a cool experience when accelerating AND decelerating. In my opinion, a lot of car opinions are from "trends" or popular "hot takes", not actually from experience. Myself included in that statement, just not this one as I had first hand experience lol
Went from a 12c to a Gallardo.....Doug you are spot on. I too am a convert.The single clutch is wayy more fun and engaging than dual clutch.
My first car was smart fortwo first generation. That car had an automatic manual transmission. A learning curve was involved in making the car feel like it had an automatic torque converter gearbox. I enjoyed driving that car swiftly and smoothly. Driving that car up a mountain round smoothly and fast was a fun challenge. I sometimes look at a smart roadster coupe brabus in the classifieds, and think maybe maybe!
I have a paddle shift and I actually love it. It enables active engine braking which greatly improves the feel and grip of the car.
Porsche offered the 4 speed ‘Sportomatic’ in the early 1970’s. In this case however a driver was expected to shift the gear lever and the car handled the clutch automatically using a servo motor along with a torque converter.
Doug DeMuro likes the sequential manual transmission (SMT) for several reasons despite its general unpopularity:
Mechanical Feel: Unlike the seamless and sanitized experience of dual-clutch transmissions (DCTs) or the smoothness of traditional automatics, SMTs offer a mechanical feel. Drivers can feel the gears changing and the transmission doing its work, which provides a more engaging and tactile driving experience.
Driver Input: Operating an SMT requires some driver effort to get it right, similar to a manual transmission. For example, pulling the paddle and backing off the accelerator to allow the gear change, then rolling back onto the throttle. This involvement makes driving more interactive and rewarding for enthusiasts.
Nostalgia and Uniqueness: In an era where driving experiences are becoming more automated and sanitized, the raw and less refined nature of SMTs stands out. DeMuro appreciates this difference, as it brings back a sense of old-school driving.
Cost Consideration: Traditional manuals are often significantly more expensive than their automatic counterparts. While a true manual transmission is preferable, the price difference can make SMTs a more practical alternative for those wanting a semi-manual driving experience without the hefty cost.
Overall, DeMuro's appreciation for SMTs stems from their unique mechanical feel, the requirement for driver skill, their nostalgic value, and their cost-effectiveness compared to traditional manuals.
Saved you 10 minutes.
And don't forget those Single clutch gearboxes had some cool-looking gear levers.
Maserati GranSport is a perfect example of this…love mine.
Sportomatic. The forgotten and unloved Porsche transmission is what many people want but don’t realize it.
It’s the best of both worlds: involvement of the stick shift, performance of the flappy paddle SMG/F1 boxes.
6:40 This is funnily enough the same way to drive a normal automatic fast and efficiently. You press the gas to the floor, let go a bit at like 3000rpm to entice a gear shift, and then floor it again
I'm with you!
One of the things we all love about manuals is the satisfaction of getting the smooth shift in. dual clutch / torque converters don't give you this. As you said: it's a little obvious. Too perfect.
I had a wonderful long weekend with a Gallardo many years ago with the dreaded e-gear. After spending 20 minutes hating it in auto-mode, I found the joy of finessing the gear change in manual mode.
You do not have to lift off the throttle when shifting the 355F1. Downshifts are more involved because the car does not automatically rev match. There’s some heel-toe required to get it right. It’s a ton of fun to drive
Another great video from Doug. I appreciate you addressing the elephant in the room. I've always been a die-hard manual transmission fan, but my perspective changed about 15 years ago when I bought my second E46 M3 with the SMG transmission. Initially, I intended to convert it to a manual, but once I figured out the correct settings and timing, I found it surprisingly enjoyable.
While all my cars are manuals, my latest addition, a 575M with an F1 automated manual, has been super fun to drive. It took a few drives to get the timing right, but now I’m having a blast despite its “terrible” reputation. Don’t let naysayers stop you from buying a car you might actually like-try it yourself, as YMMV.
So the answer is simple- manual swap your automated manual gearbox.
At their cores they’re essentially manuals so it shouldn’t be that terribly difficult
It isn’t- I should know. 😉
I drove a few different Astons with these gearboxes. Actualy when you put them in manual mode and shift yourself. And i used them the way you explain. You can even revvmatch them if you have the feeling for it.
These cars become way more alive if you use them this way.
I used to own an MR2 with the SMT and i loved it. Never tiring in the city, always quick on track. I am now after the SMG m3 with no second thoughts.
I agree ! It’s the second best thing to a actual 3 pedal clutch. Same technology sort off as the superbike quick shifter. Works well since a shift can happen easily without clutch if you time the shift correctly with release torque to the transmission. Good stuff.
As an owner of a 2010 E63 M6 with the SMG, I get a little bit of where Doug is coming from, but the criticisms of the SMG are well deserved imo. The clunkiness of the SMG driving around the city really isn’t ideal, and the cost of owning one like you said will keep a lot of ppl away. It’s a great transmission on the highway and around the track, but outside of that the advancements we’ve made since are obvious like you said.
My manual 08 M5 is already unreliable enough as it is. Can’t imagine having another system entirely to worry about 😅
@@computiNATEor you know it’s funny how a lot of the manuals I’ve seen actually tend to be just like yours. I think it’s because owners tend to bypass the maintenance more because they can still make money off the manuals despite the neglect. Not saying you’re neglecting yours, but I’m guessing yours is a higher mileage example or you’re paying for the previous owner’s neglect or both lol. Mine has been nothing but good to me, knock on wood, because the previous owner took amazing care of it and it’s a pristine low mileage example. Service history is really everything with these cars, and it took me years to find one as clean as mine
@@youtubeuser1466the manual has another downside to it: The ratios aren’t as good as the SMG III, because surprise surprise, the SMG III (Getrag 247) was made exclusively for the M5 and M6 instead of being an “off the shelf” gearbox like the ZF S6-53 is
@@satsumagt5284 This is true, but a 4.1 ratio rear end fixes that
@@youtubeuser1466 My car came with a stack of maintenance receipts and yet it’s still been unreliable. Yeah, 161k miles isn’t nothing, but it’s also not a lot. Things that have been replaced in my ownership - rod bearings, high pressure vanos pump and line, all coils and spark plugs, dampers, EDC module, all four throttle and idle actuators, all drive belts and pulleys, thermostat, coolant hoses, oil filter housing, rear diff seals, driveshaft rebuild, and more. And it’s still giving me an intermittent misfire on cylinder 1.
Paddles make me feel like an F1 driver!
I ve always said this: One of the most amazing cars that uses this technology is the E60 M5. Now I know that the American market ones were offered with a 6 speed manual too, and SMG to manual swaps are everywhere, but I truly think that the SMG is the way to go. Driven as it's supposed to, foot to the floor even during shifts, ferocity setting at its highest, the SMG will shock the heck out of you at every shift, making it one of the most aggresive and intense cars ever produced. As opposed to the manual, which isn't really suited for that insane engine and makes it just a fun cruiser. People should learn to appreciate things the way they were meant to be. Not everything is a Mustang with a manual
My friend owned a 430 Scuderia Spider 16M. Complete with its 6-speed F1 gearbox. I was lucky enough to join him for a spin, and he took it into Sport mode (not even Race). That gearbox is properly barmy. The shift is brutal but lightning-fast, and the downshift is angry. I absolutely love it, more than later DCT on 458, 488 and F8 surprisingly. R8's R-Tronic gearbox is also quite fun as well. Not a fan of e-Gear, though, still a little sluggish.
Rallies are the acme of competition.
The required skills are unique.
Since the 80s they resorted to innovative transmissions.
European drivers dominate the Rally competitions.
Namely in the US, the Pikes Peak International Hill Climb -- Colorado
This year, June 23th.
Watch Sebastian Loeb's 2013 record in a Peugeot 205 bi-turbo.
And Michelle Mouton, the only Female winning Rallies in the 80s driving an Audi Quatro -- the Pikes Peak Road was still unpaved.
She was amazing, driving the Audi --- on a Cliffside, old-fashioned, dirt road.
Recently, the Cliffside Road has been paved, affording higher speeds.
After all, both were used to compete all over Europe, through extremely narrow roads, dirt or gravel pavements, often covered with snow...
I completely agree with these sentiments. What I really dislike is when others will bash, insult, and demean others for driving automatics in whatever form. It's unnecessary and makes so many car "enthusiasts" look like total aholes. If shifting with paddles is your thing, then awesome! Drive what makes you happy!
I think you’re right Doug, as long as I love manuals, the extra cost for certain models isn’t worth it. I’d prefer having a flappy paddles Lambo than no Lambo. It was so cool that you had the choice between both transmission. Even back then, manuals were low production but they still offered it. Anything offered today would be 10x times cooler with a manual. Imagine an Huracan or GTR with a 6 speed manual…
Babe Wake Up, Doug Is Reporting From His Dungeon
With the way to perform a gear change in a single clutch automated manual, all of it is right, but what Ive learned is that is all the case unless you are at full throttle in the most aggressive setting, then the car is usually programmed to accommodate for that and wants you to keep you foot flat during shifts.
I’m with you. I never thought I’d like the automated manuals but I bit the bullet and bought one and absolutely love it. Sure, it’s not perfect, but it offers a mechanical connection to the car that is much better than a more traditional auto or a dual clutch. You can actually feel the clutch engaging and the gearbox going into gear just like a manual. I personally love mine and would never consider a manual swap. It is reflective of the technology of an era and the car was engineered that way. I love it and am considering adding another to my garage.
My Smart Fortwo had a gearbox like this and it was amazing to drive! I appreciated the delay very much when changing great😀
Great discussion. Probably the only video discussing the “psychology” of driving the SMG versus technical/mechanical aspects. The only thing I still don’t understand with SMGs is what problem they’re trying to solve.
Shift times are actually better than manual if you get a GOOD robotized, plus some 7 speed ones (SMG III for BMW, ISR for Lamborghini) are actually quite innovative in how they work: they disengage a synchro whilst engaging another, as the synchros aren’t traditional where you have gears 1-2 on the same synchro, but rather you have gears 1-3 on the same synchro, and then 2-4 in another.
Besides, they do add convenience to a 7 speed box. A 6 speed may be easier to H-pattern, and although H 7 speeds do exist, 7th is usually not used for top speed (it’s 6th). Both cars I’ve mentioned use all of their 7 gears.
Cool video.
The underlying theme here is that once you reach a certain level of net worth, you can then explore the difference "hobby" flavors of unique auto experiences. You can apply this to other hobbies as well.
When you have so much money and you get bored with the norm., you start looking for other "new" things to focus on.
Driving my BMW E64 M6 with an SMG was challenging at first. However, after driving a few miles, I realized a few things… and a lot of these Doug was able to address.
#1 - Not a traditional torque converting automatic, an SMG is a manual, it’s in the name!!!! The driver must behave with the accelerator as if they are pushing in a clutch shifting the transmission and letting out the clutch with every Drive (D) mode shift. Select (S) mode gives you the control and more coordination with the right foot while the car shifts.
#2 - The S85 loves to live above 6,000 rpm. This is an M! Shifting is much more smooth and way way way less jerky in the higher revs, but the driver must still behave with the accelerator. Also, I had to get acclimated to driving a car that can rev to over 8,000 rpm. It sounds way too high, it’s an F1 engine.
#3 - Without a 3rd pedal, the driver’s Left foot stays wonderfully planted to the car, resulting in an amazing connection and feel for what the car is doing.
#4 - Both hands on the wheel at all times is very nice when navigating winding roads.
#5 - Amazingly adjustable settings by BMW allows you to dial in whatever experience you lean towards.
Check out my auction on Cars and Bids…
carsandbids.com/auctions/9lDBbYNz/2010-bmw-m6-convertible
Most who complain about these transmissions seem to simply want a traditional torque converting automatic, or the amazing DCT.
Are there any other S85 SMG owners that feel similarly?!
I have a Opel Corsa Moldel C with Sequential Manual transmission, it's the greatest rally feeling 3 door hatchback I had ever drieñven.
Wait, the Corsa C came with a sequential transmission?! How did I never know that
@@darkpit1303 I was wrong sorry, its an automated manual.
For me more so seeing the value that the represent if you could manual swap them, for instance buying a 599 for 150k - 225k and manual swapping of for about 50k gives you pretty much the factory manual transmission experience for a fraction of the cost
I enjoy the flippers as hand brakes on curves and hills.
That said, I use those "handbrakes" to lower my gears and not rely on my brakes so much. I prefer a controlled coast around the bend or up and down steeper grade.
Agree with everything you said, EXCEPT you're not supposed to lift when shifting, at least not for Ferrari/Maserati's systems. The manual is very explicit and says for the best shifts do not lift. When you lift you're confusing the TCU which thinks you're trying to slow down, which backs off the aggressiveness of the shifts.
My SAAB 9-5 turbo has sentronic shift paddles but the upshift is jammed...i used to love switching to manual mode every once and a while when it was functional.
Its crazy to me that more people dont like them! I absolutely loved smg in my e60 m5, more so than a 6spd. Something about those clunky, extremely aggressive shifts were so cool to me.
Looking at that Lamborghini in the background is funny because Doug has always been a fan of cars that don’t say look at me. And now he owns the most look at me car
Doug loves car but he's businessman first, and who prefers to see a camry over a lambo in a podcast background? If he believes the Pontiac Aztek value would blow up in the future, he'd have owned one too.
@@miky702 I doubt Doug would go Aztek even he knew it would have 250GTO investment trajectory. He's a car guy first! That would be heresy. I did just chuckle imagining Doug doing an enthusiastic Cars & Bids presentation for an Aztek though.
If the Pontiac Aztek went to 250 gto prices I would buy as many as I could realistically afford and use the money from selling them to buy actually good cars lol
He has always had cool cars but the ones that aren’t so in your face. He says that in a lot of videos. Most of his previous cars weren’t flashy. But when the bank account fills up your tastes change
I think it’s because Doug thinks he is secretly a show off but never wants to admit it, even though he is very obviously a show off.
Your absolutely correct! Keep up the videos Doug!
The most heavenly "this" from doug yet
I've always enjoyed the BMW SMG in the first Z4 (E85), which my uncle drove from 2004, although I bought a manual for myself afterwards and which I never regretted on the other hand. Nice to hear that you agree with me now ... 😉
My long gone nissan sedan had a CVT with paddle "shifting". Never understood what shifting meant in a CVT
I have an R-tronic V10 R8 and love it. I also had a 2003 M3 SMG and it was a fantastic gearbox where you can change the shifting speed. I think it was more refined than the Audi box.
The "F1" / automated clutch transmissions are crazy expensive to maintain and/or fix. You have a clutch to service and most times its recommended to change the flywheel too. The hydraulic pumps and solenoids break. You also have an automated slave cylinder, release bearing, clutch fork, pivot bushing, and hydraulic lines that can all go bad. And its commonly agreed that all of these parts typically don't even work well together for a cohesive product and ends up being clunky. If you want harder shifts, there are ways of doing it in torque converter transmission as well as dual clutches. In fact I bet there's ways to tune those types of transmissions to emulate the clunkiness of an "F1" transmission - if you really want it that bad! Eco, Normal, Sport, Track, and Clunk mode
Not every sequential manual requires lifting off the throttle when shifting. The SMG III in the M5/M6 is refined enough that the computer auto matches the rev when up/down shifting, and the owner's manual specifically say to drive it like a normal automatic without lifting when shifting. I daily mine and it's been fine, the only annoying scenario is inching forward during stop and go traffic, but that's the same as a normal manual car.
My only experience is a torque converter 6 speed, but it having a proper manual mode with paddle shifters is fun, there was a learning curve to get the shifts smoother, as well as understanding how to time shifts and pre-shifting for the lag. I still want to get a manual cuz it seems more fun and engaging, so that's on the cards in the future.
I was lucky enough to track a Lamborghini Aventador SVJ and a Porsche 911 GT3RS, back to back at Rockingham Raceway in Corby, England.
The Porsche gear changes were super impressive, smooth and instant, but for that reason, it might have just as well been a full on automatic.
The Lambo, with its single clutch box, was on the other hand full of drama. Each time you pulled for a gear, it would clunk hard and smack the back of your head into the head rest. It felt like a manual box would each time you drop the clutch.
Result? Stepping out of both cars, my pulse was waaay higher coming out the lambo than it was out of the Porsche. And at the end of the day, that’s what it’s all about, isn’t it?
Bought a SMG M3 in Covid and thought it was great. You have to apply skill to drive it and mechanical knowledge. And, you can drive it on a auto license so surely future values are strong as fewer manual licenses are out there
0:30 got me rolling 😂
I’m with you, Doug! I even liked the smart fortwo’s (very slow) automated manual! There’s something very mechanical and interesting about an automated manual, coupled with the finesse to get smooth shifts (just like you would with a manual), it’s an experience.
Next great debate - better to have the paddles on the wheel, or attached to the steering column? Personally, while I understand the argument that column attached paddles don't move, hence you always know where they are, I prefer attached to the wheel, where my hands are.
Been saying this since 2018. The only experience I have with exotics was one of those pay to drive on track experiences in Vegas. I drove a 488 gtb then an early aventador. It’s probably not as dramatic as other sequentials but MAN was shifting gears on the straights in the lambo so much more fun. I’ll always prioritize fun over lap times and my god was the lambo more fun. I actually posted faster lap times in the aventador over the 488. I’m sure a lot of it had to do with me driving the 488 first and it took a bit to get comfortable with the lines and brake zones but I’d love to think part of it was me just getting fired up driving the aventador. So much more fun. That screaming v12 didn’t hurt either.
Porsche was kinda broke lol. That’s why they were using 5 speed tips until PDK
Porsche should’ve kept the Sportomatic until they launched PDK. It would’ve been awesome on the 964 & 993 generations.
Bring back the VW Auto-Stick
Smart Fortwo has these shifters as an option. Really makes the car fun
I understand Doug's point. And i understand why manuals are so expensive. But, both Doug and the market are wrong.
We should only look at this time and see it as the beginning of the trend of unnecessary changes and technology that nobody wanted. Supercars from the era should have been manual only, as they always were before. Some sport luxury cars could've offered TC tips, is suppose 😒. But accepting this is accepting the crap we have to deal with now that nobody wanted. Don't be complacent, rage against the dying of the light!
As for the market value difference between sequential and gods gift to enthusiasts, the manuals should only sell for the price of a manual swap plus maybe 5% for the headache of having to get it done over the sequential. Most of the vehicles have a manual swap option.
Doug making the sequential gearbox cars raise in values #TheDemuroAffect
😂i agree with this. I had an e46 m3 smg for 3 years and it was the most fun car I have ever driven. That gearbox and the inline 6 that rev so fast to 8000rpm was a match made in heaven. The realiability scared me and I sold it. But damn I have never experience anything else more fun. The dual clutches are clearly not as fun.
In fact i think it is even more fun than a manual. You can actually feel every upshift and downshift and you have to work for it. It felt brutal
Lift off the gas when changing gears ? Seems like the engineers missed out on a good opportunity to interrupt the engine power another, better way (like momentarily cut the spark plug juice?). Not new for motorcycles that have solenoid actuated shifters. However, when I was driving a stick manual compared to now (DSG) the thing I miss most is being able to go from 1st to 3rd directly when I'm just trundling along slowly in residential areas.
The AutoTempest analyst who verifies if cars listed as 'manual' are actually manual consulted on the script for this video.
Hey Doug, is that you?! Remember how you ripped apart the Maserati Quattroporte?! 😄 The fact is, if you want it to work, it will work and it is fun. If you don't want it to work smoothly or if you don't care, then it will not work! I love my Quattroporte and I enjoy every single gear shift that I constantly negotiate with my car, and I celebtrate every single successfull shift action! It may sound absurd, but it really is a lot of fun! I was surprised by this video of yours, but I like it a lot! 🙂
The fact that manuals are so much more expensive than most any automatic's counterparts should be a wakeup call for car manufacturers.
My prelude has the automatic with the sequential sport shifter . Havent used it yet but I'm tempted to try it out
Doug the type of guy to ask a woman if it's okay for him to hold the door for her
Just bought a Mazda Cx90 inline 6 Turbo. It's got flappy paddles. Honestly it's something I'm looking forward to. If my wife and I are only going to get one car, I would like the option to be sporty.
I think the MCT in my C63 fits the character of the car. The shifts in sport plus are so brutal. Definitely slow in manual mode and always slipping the clutch driving around town.
Similar to the older semi-auto transmissions in something like an ATV, though works completely differently