Electrostatic Martin Logan Ethos VS Quasi Ribbon Magnepan 1.7
Вставка
- Опубліковано 13 жов 2024
- Welcome to the latest episode of Newsboy Audio! In this video, we'll be comparing two high-end speakers: the Electrostatic Martin Logan Ethos and the Quasi Ribbon Magnepan 1.7s. Both of these speakers are known for their exceptional audio quality, but which one is the better choice for your listening experience?
First, let's take a closer look at the Martin Logan Ethos. These speakers utilize advanced electrostatic technology to create a clean, clear, and detailed sound that's perfect for both music and movies. The Ethos speakers feature a unique Folded Motion tweeter that delivers a high-frequency response that's both accurate and transparent, and a slim design that makes them easy to place in any room.
On the other hand, the Quasi Ribbon Magnepan 1.7s are known for their unique ribbon driver technology, which produces a natural and open sound that's hard to match. These speakers use thin, flexible ribbons to create a sound that's more like live music than any other speaker type. The result is a sound that's both warm and detailed, making the 1.7s ideal for audiophiles who demand the best possible sound quality.
So, which one is the better choice for you? It all depends on your personal preferences. If you want a speaker that's easy to place in any room and delivers exceptional clarity, the Martin Logan Ethos is an excellent choice. If you're more interested in a speaker that delivers a warm, natural sound that's as close to live music as possible, the Quasi Ribbon Magnepan 1.7s are a perfect match.
In this video, we'll compare these two speakers side-by-side and give you our honest opinion on which one comes out on top. We'll take a closer look at their design, sound quality, and overall performance to help you make an informed decision. So sit back, relax, and let's get started with our comparison of the Electrostatic Martin Logan Ethos and Quasi Ribbon Magnepan 1.7s!
*Notes*: Martin Logan offers parts for all of their electrostatic speakers. The only issue with this is that older Martin Logan parts can start to get expensive. This was not mentioned in the video.
*Correction*: I misspoke on how Martin Logan worked. It uses high voltage electrostatic to move a diaphragm, and not an "Arc of Sparks."
Newsboy Audio Blog Page: newsboyaudio.c...
------
Looking To Support Me?
Need Help?
Check Out My Software and Web Development Business: ProperProgramming.com or My Patreon for donations. Links on my Profile.
newsboyaudio.com
ProperProgramm...
/ newsboyaudio
I have 1.7 , 3.6 and LRS + magnapan loudspeakers and I am in love with the way they sound.
Used to sell both these speakers. The Maggie's require a larger space and are ungodly fussy about placement. They also have consistency issues, which is a big reason retailers avoided them. MLs require less space and placement is more like a conventional speaker. Soundstage is much more defined in MLs and more immediate, and midrange more analytical. MLs are the better speaker, but if you can get enough amp behind the Maggie's and the right room they have an excellent balance between grandiose soundstage and transient detail.
I have old ML electrostats. 2 are great, 3 sound like they need caps, but still sound better than most speakers to me. I've just finished cleaning the panels. It makes a difference. I did open the center channel. Yes it has a ton of complicated electronics compared to conventional speakers.
If an electrostatic speaker is sparking you have a serious problem. The panel doesn't move on sparks it moves on difference in electrical charges between the grids and the charged mylar panel
I had put the correction in the description. Sorry for the mistake. It was not what I intended to say, and I noticed it too late to reshoot.
Also technically there is a type of speaker that runs like that. It’s similar to a plasma speaker. The Martin Logan isn’t one of them, and they are rare. digilent.com/blog/plasma-arc-speakers/
Yeah plasma tweeters are interesting I've never heard one myself though
@@stephennarayan I've heard them. I agree, very interesting approach. Telling how few exist as actual products. I'm surprised, but there are some real products out there.
@@newsboyaudio rarity of plasma tweeters are because they have an ozon problem.
Just temperamental for me. I know nothing about them but I do like the way they sound with laid back smooth voices ect.
My current monitors are NHT VT-2 driven by two NAD 2200 power amplifiers. The amplifiers are bridged into a monoblock configuration. That is one NAD 2200 for the right channel and one NAD 2200 for the left channel. But being an audiophile is an endless journey. So electrostats and planars peak my interest.
ML's electrostatics should just be fully active IMO. as you noted there's already so much going on on the electronics side i'm surprised they don't just do it - they could optimize the amp specifically for the non-standard load that an ESL presents (being that you're driving electronics + a transformer and not a voice coil)
I biamp my ML and bypass the woofer crossover. Brings the bass more alive.
I have the Magnepans 7's and also two SVS Ultra 13 subs with the upgraded plate amps It's a bit of a pain but with the help of REW room correction I've got them dialed in pretty good I also when with the Magnarisers stands and Stereo11 fuse upgrade Take your time to find the right position for the Maggie's
Very nice! Appreciate the hints. I'm a bit jealous of you. Got to try them LRS's out, sometime.
Great - that's Key (Stereo11 fuse upgrade)...I did that and got Expensive Sound Anchor stands that weigh 52 pounds each but Delivers HUGE!
I have the Martin Logan CLS's with SVS SB 4000 sealed subs at 40hz on the subs sounds damn good
I adore my Maggies and is driving them with both a Classe preamplifier and amp.
Lucky enough to be driving my 1.7i's with Wyred4Sound sx1000r mono's. Absolutely love the Maggies, Also worth trying out switching the left and right around (moving tweeters to inside Vs outside) can make things interesting. I agree - very location sensitive but awesome, pull them out, way out. (mine are 80" into the room). they arent fussy about side wall spacing (mine are approx 36" from side wall. Can't wait to drive with Tube mono amps, just looking for right fit. Thx for the video, keeping the channel rolling.
Thanks for the comment.
I have a pair of 3.7i's and really love them, stepping up from .7's. I've always wanted to demo Martin Logans though but never had the chance. Always loved the way they looked. I'd love to listen to a pair of 11A's or even the Classic 9's and do a comparison. Hopefully your comparison video will be up soon!
Sorry, Next up for me is some ESL's. Got a few more speakers to sell first.
If I was going to compare Magnepan to Martin Logan I would try to get closer in price range. Something like the 3.7i would be a closer comparison on the used or new market. Most of what you said is all very true. I don't see that you ever did a follow up to this comparing the sound?
Thank you for your comment. I offer my opinion in the video. I prefer the Magnepan due to the issues Martin Logan has, and the increased cost. The Ethos sound better though, but the reliability of the panels past 20 years is a massive problem. This is assuming the new Quasi Ribbons are more reliable, without de-lamination issues. The added cost, especially considering getting new panels for the Ethos every 10-20 years is a massive problem. I may get a pair of ESL's next.
what ,,, is,,, the sound... difference... from 1khz to 20khz,,, between them
Thank you for sharing your thoughts in your comparison. Question: Is there a minimum amount of weight to a power amp that you recommend? 30? 50lbs or more? I too believe in this "rule of thumb." I am hoping that an older Parasound can drive the LRS model. The amp weights 37lbs and its current capacity is 40 amperes continuous (57 peak). Also, I learned from another channel that a high damping factor is needed for the LRS as well. Interestingly, in an interview with Nelson Pass, Pass stated that the high damping factor isn't so crucial; he explained that the LRS "likes second harmonic." If this is true, it would be interesting to find out which amp performs this way. Anyway, thanks again for taking the time to make this video.
My recommendation is more of a way to compare two amps, of the same class. The class of the AMP must be the same, because Class A and AB needs more cooling, and a larger transformer then class-D and the other classes. Meanwhile, even Class As typically have more weight then Class AB, because of the additional cooling. Also, the weight is going to increase as the current increases on the amp.
As far as the dampening factor is concerned, they are correct. That is important. And luckily, well-designed Amps that have better dampening factors also typically weight more. However, this measurement is very important, in of itself. And I do not want to assume, or state, that the ONLY thing to consider is weight. Instead, weight is just one of the first things I consider, when picking an amplifier.
Also, just to be clear. I also pay attention to the rated resistance the Amplifier will support. If its rated to support 2 ohms, or 1 ohm, a good chance its got a good dampening factor.
As I said in some of my videos, Magnapan usually recommends a doubling of power output with their Amps. However, brands such as McIntosh do not provide this and can be considered as a great pairing with Magnepan due to their dampening factors.
THD, and distortion, is also important to consider. But I'm exceeding the capabilities of the comments.
I have the Magnepans 7's and was driving them with my 78lb VAC tube amp 100 watts per side Maggie's love watts/current So l found a used Spectron musical MK lll class D amp designed by John Ulrich It's weights 54lbs 500watts@8ohm 650@4ohms and 1,200 watts@1ohm 65 amps for 500 milliseconds To me weight matters in most amps
@Jack D-class with 54lbs? That is huge. My D-Class delivers 300w at about 8lbs each channel and sounds fantastic with Magnepans. Hyper makes some that are very beafy. I also enjoyed it with the monoprice monolith.
newsboyaudio.com/blog/triple-m-audio-hypex-class-d-amplifiers/
Heres the article on the Class-D. I will have to do a review on the monolith 7, but I don't think I'm going to remove it from the case. Its 100lbs and 200w in 7 channels. Class-AB.
@@newsboyaudio
That's what l say every time l try and lift my Spectron John Ulrich invented the switching D class amp back in 70's There is a 8 inch diameter x 5 inch thick toroidal transformer in the case They didn't mess around Probably the source for all the current Apparently sound wise it's very close to a Jeff Rowland
I will read that artical you sent me thanks Oh l have a few UA-cam vids of my stereo rig If you like look up "Magnepan .7's doing their thing with Spectron musical "
In my conversations with ML they stock parts for several generations of speakers. I have never not been able to get what I needed when i needed it from them
Martin Logan actually promises lifetime support for their products. I believe I mention this in the video, but maybe its my other video on the speakers. The problem with them is that they do not guarantee an affordable price. Also, Magnepans don't have this issue. However, In the video, I mention Magnepans and the history of the de-lamination as a possible equal, and how Magnepans say they fix it. The comments lower, we talk about how the speaker may have stretching of the membrane, but we don't know if this is an issue. Magnepans support their speakers as well.
I bought “broken” Magnepans for $100, the glue costs like $20 and now I have new maggies for $120.
@@castro619a wow. How much work?
@@newsboyaudio undo the staples on the side, peel the sock back, then apply “3M 30NH clear “ glue lightly to bond the wires and Mylar together. The Mylar has a hole in it, but the glue sealed it and they sound perfect.
Nice to see this. However, the Masterpiece series is the current high end line. I enjoy the Classic 9's (the smallest $7.5k) which are passive like the Neolith. I run a Parasound A-21 which is the amplifier output ML suggests (400 wpc).
The REAL cannons you speak of can only be heard and felt on the TELARC release from the late 70ies. The recording can do damage. The vinyl version actually shakes the tone arm if you have the setup to track it !
Yes, that is the album I recommend. TELARC 1812. I've damaged speakers with that album.
I cover older speakers, and the used prices of these two are comparative. Which makes them great for a face off.
The new prices on the Magnepan 1.7 are less than the Ethos that is almost 20 years old. I would pick the Magnepan.
The M-Ls cost $3,500 more than the Maggies. A couple of REL subs will give them all the bass you need for less than that.
Not 3,500... No. Not on the used market. Sorry. The ML Ethos can be had for between 2-3,000. There is one on Ebay for 2,250 right now. The Magnepans 1.7s cost about 2,000. I see one listed for 1,300 and many more at 1,500-2,000 But I echo your sentiment, and so does the video.
@@newsboyaudio The only items I would never buy used are speakers. They are too likely to have been stressed.
@@67daltonknox sorry, they don’t get “stressed” speakers are generally the most reliable components in electronics. I’m not sure what you heard this. The biggest concern is clipping of an amp, but you can hear that type of damage. I recommend used and buy used almost always.
@@newsboyaudio Electronics are mostly passive. Unless something is burnt out, they rarely fail. Speakers of any sort are mechanical devices with moving parts. Most of these fatigue with time and abuse. I could show you some BMW speakers where the cones literally disintegrated. So, no I will not buy used speakers and back to my original comment that the M-Ls cost $3,500 more than the Maggies
@@67daltonknox I'm sorry, but you got it backwards. And thanks to my volunteer work, I get first hand experience in this, and have stats to show this. Note: REPAIRCAFE rocks!
Speakers, typically will not fall apart or disintegrate. The only time I had an issue with that, was either abuse, old paper cones that use to dry out and fall apart, or with electrostatics. Kevlar, Aluminum, and most Plastics are good for 100+ years. Anything modern should be good for many years, except super cheap stuff. Technically, the paper cones can be re-coned, and I haven't seen a pure paper woofer for around 40 years, so really only a problem with REALLY old speakers that didn't use a coating. Also, you have problems with the rubber surrounds around the 20-30 year mark. That is very easy (self) repair. And, should something fail, there are always parts available for speakers, or there are ways to fix them yourself, or hire someone to fix. Though, problems are extremely rare.
There are also other exceptions, like the ones in the videos. Maggies, should be good for a very long time after version 1.6.... They SAY they have solved the delamination issue with their quasi ribbon design, yet it hasn't been 50 years to see. Maggie continues to support ALL of their speakers, so repair kits are available. So before that, make sure to see if they need repair. Electrostatics have two problems, delamination and dust. They panels typically need to be replaced or repaired (like ESLs). Martin Logan supplies parts for ALL of their speakers, they every produced. Though cost of thoose parts can be a problem, though their performance keeps their owners happy.
As with electronics, there are more problems then with speakers. Electrolytic capacitors are the biggest one. They have a general lifespan of 15 years. Though many will last further. Tubes also fail, regularly. After that, you get into dates of 50 years. And yes, you can repair many electronics if you have a failure, but not many IC boards are repairable if parts stop getting supplied. And some units may have limited supply of parts in them, that if they fail you can get stuck with something you can't fix. Plus many other problems, especially with inexpensive electronic. The biggest issue with repair is safety. Though it can be done, caution must be practiced around electronics. Unpluging it isn't enough. See repaircafe or training for this.
I will try to come up with a video for this stuff. Maybe a guide buying used speakers would be good.
Speakers end up beign extremely safe to buy, used. Just make sure to fully test them, with reliable equipment upon receiving them. And SHIPPING INSURANCE!
Martin Logan still making parts for all their speakers
You paid to much for the martin logan speaker.
I did, because the auction lied about the condition they were in. But they sell used, for $2,000 -> $3,000 for a pair. I paid 1,600 for them, but they were broken and the auction hid this fact. They then tried reselling them two more times, and ended about $2,000 on each time. They never disclosed they were broken in follow up postings as well. The auction was behaving inappropriately and I don't know if they ever were honest about their condition.
www.hifishark.com/search?q=Martin+Logan+Ethos
Sorry but you need to do your homework, Electrostatics do not work like you are saying. If you have any sparks you are in trouble. The MLS have a 200w amp in each speaker for the bass driver and DSP, what you are looking at are not crossover capacitors. MLs are picky on their placement and need air around them. The weight of the transformer is really irrelevant, because of their inherent design class d transformers are small but there are some great class d amps now. If you want to know the ability of the amp in driving difficult loads then look at the wattage rating at 8,4 and 2 ohms. the closer the figures are to doubling as you go down in resistance is a much better indicator eg 100w into 8 ohms 200w into 4 ohms etc.
There is a correction in the description. I just misspoke, but it was too late to reshoot it to fix it. There is another comment on it as well, but I caught it before I released the video and added a correction to the description. Thank you for mentioning it, as I try to get it all perfect. Sadly, I had to return the MLs and sold the Magnepans. Looking to get a new pair soon, but got to unload a few speakers before I do. Makes it hard to reshoot. :(
The electronics part, I'm aware. But the electronics on that is a worry for long lifespan. One of the panels on them were going bad. The auction never disclosed it, so I returned them as I paid too much for them if they didn't work reliably.
Also, this was shot awhile ago. With the great response we are getting, we expect to put more effort in future videos. Can't promise we wont make mistakes, but we are improving every video.
They also don't use a folded motion tweeter that is the motion series that have cone drivers. They are not easy to place, i have had ML hybrid electrostatic speakers for years they require exact placement with at minimum 2.5 feet distance from the front wall and a good distance from the side wall. They need more space than almost any box speaker. They also require exact toe in and angle adjustment to get the best out of them. I prefer them to any box speaker i have heard in the price range but they require really precise positioning to sing.
@@herbertmathewsI agree. Though I think I prefer the focal beryllium line.