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I think you did pretty good I believe that you kind of water down Black clover just a bit but hey like you already admitted to it cuz Dorothy's feet would be into a large Galaxy to universal
Yo Tempest. There is an argument the OP community likes to make to make Luffy reach those planetary lvls. It basically revolves around the fact that the OP planet seems to be way larger then earth, some calcs even putting it at the size of the Sun or even bigger. Because of this, All of Luffy's continental feats would suddenly become way higher. Not my opinion, just an argument that some ppl throw around. What do you make of it?
@@dsm2417OP is one of my favorite anime but that shit sound stupid , if you have to use an argument that the place they live is bigger it's likely you lost an argument it's ok if OP isn't stronger than other anime it's not that serious
@@hustleman8797 Im not an OP fan but i am a debater. It doesnt matter what arguments you use. No matter how it sounds, if you cant debunk it then it can always be used until someone does.
The world is around 6 - 12 Jupiter's not anywhere close to the sun 1. Bigger islands like alabasta and dressrossa are the size of countries so yh they aren't continents the biggest land mass should be the grand line
Eso o Luffy es tan fuerte que incluso cuando golpea o agarra hace que todo parezca de goma. Ademas el poder de Luffy (la Hito Hito no Mi, modelo : nika) no es una paramecia, es una zoan mitologica. (Los poderes de One Piece no son magia ni estan relacionados con el mana). La fuerza fisica de Asta no escala al nivel de la magia, ni siquiera con solo su fuerza fisica anula la magia, la razon por la que Asta puede escalar a la magia masiva es por su antimagia. Asta puede controlar el flujo de la anti-magia de sus espadas para anular la fuerza de los ataques magicos cuando se defiende (no solo se tiene que ver con su fuerza fisica). Y no soy analfabeto, Asta es fuerte pero no tanto (Asta no puede hacer nada contra los ataques magicos usando solamente su fuerza fisica). Asta solo necesita concentrarse y controlar el flujo de la antimagia que emana de sus espadas para defenderse y cancelar la fuerza de los ataques mágicos (Asta ya lo habia hecho de forma inconsciente antes cuando bloqueaba y devolvia los ataques magicos). Pero sí, Asta necesita ser físicamente fuerte, pero solo para maniobrar las espadas antimágicas y también para resistir la fuerza de la energia antimágica que cubre su cuerpo cuando está en su "Black Form" o "Devil Union".
@@斯爾終點リン you clearly are illiterate as if you could read you'd see how it's directly stated that if asta isn't strong enough he'd just die to attacks and his anti magic would be useless he does need to scale to it physically
@@marcierex4547It is pointless, he is always commenting on how Luffy has Toonforce and how asta only affects magic which shows that he is an illiterate that does not even read black clover
Acc it is really close. Both are mftl and both are planetary at mid ball or high ball. Altho if you wank asta you can make him uni but its inconsistent. Luffys planetary level or even large planet level scaling is consistent and it is proven luffy can take off limps, body parts and even spawn things from air. So he would acc be good against asta. On the othet hand Asta has better adaptation and power creeps by sheer will power plus more abilieties and stamina. So it is really close in reality
The power scales do not apply to Luffy since the power scale of One Piece and Luffy is illogical and makes no sense. Devil Fruits and Haki are not magic nor are they made of mana. Asta's Anti-Magic/Anti-Magic Swords (black form and devil union) tracks (chases), blocks, weakens, absorb, nullifies, erase and affect in any way only magic (mana), any attributes that are made only of mana and the force of spells exercised by the mana. Asta is fast due to the "Magic Tracking" of Antimagic (black form and devil union). Antimagic/Antimagic Energy does not physically strengthen Asta. Anti-Magic cannot nullify other forms of energy other than magic (mana). Asta's four Antimagic swords do not hold a good dge against things that do not possess magic (Mana) unless they were breakable and destructible things. The Danma uses the energy of antimagic to enlarge itself and create a blade of antimagic capable of cutting gigantic magic (mana). The Shukuma uses antimagic energy to nullify magic (mana) while attacking. The Metsuma uses the energy of antimagic to nullify the effects of magic (mana) around it even when touching a magic (mana) user. The Zanma katana launches an anti-magic slash that is capable of cutting the magic (mana) of whatever the user chooses (infinite slash: nirvana/equinox). Asta cannot cut real dimensions that are not made of magic (mana). - Anti-magic cannot nullify physical objects that are not composed of mana, ranged anti-magic attacks such as anti-magic slashes do not nullify objects that are not composed of mana; but it can destroy them naturally if the physical objects that are not composed of mana were breakable or destructible things such as rocks, trees, bricks or concrete. "Zetten" is a Yojutsu that uses KI to gather and take all the Yoryoku (mana) in your body, concentrating it in one limb (hands or feet) and releasing it in an instant (it is also applied in blows, kicks and cuts); In the case of Asta it is different since by having a contract with Liebe Asta has the energy of antimagic flowing in his body (similar to mana), Asta uses KI to gather and take all the energy of antimagic within his body concentrating it in a single limb, multiplying only the power and explosive force of the antimagic and launching it at once, creating the "Antimagic Zetten" capable of nullifying and erasing all the magic (mana) inside and out as when Asta wither or disintegrate the bamboo since Bamboo was cultivated with Yoryoku (mana).
Ki and mana are vital energies but different and at the same time they are separate, but mana is much more vital than ki. Asta's Anti-Magic or Anti-Magic Swords can repel, cancel or nullify the force of spells (magic) exerted by mana. Anti-Magic causes more damage to those who possess magic (mana), when Asta hits or cuts or damages a magic (mana) user with the anti-magic swords he weakens them or leaves them unconscious. The "Zetten of Anti-Magic" can only erase magic (mana) and everything that has mana like when Asta used it on the bamboo and it disintegrated or withered because the bamboo was grown with yoryoku (mana).
@@斯爾終點リン Magic replicates the properties of real life matter so he should technically be able to do it to luffy fans fire is actual fire for example magic is just an energy source Asta destroys the construct not the magic the spells created are replication of the real Thing example when Asta negates someone ability the magic still exists just not the spell
- In the world of One Piece there is no mana. Only in the world of Black Clover The attributes or matter that are only created with magic/spell are composed of mana, also elements such as fire, and mana is the source of magical power (magic) and vitality that is found in living beings and the environment only in the world of Black Clover. Asta uses anti-magic to nullify magic/spells and any attributes that are made or created or manifested from mana such as constructs (but there are some normal constructs that are not made of mana and anti-magic cannot nullify them, it breaks them only if they are constructions without mana are breakable and destructible). Anti-magic nullifies both the magic and spells the mana user creates. Asta is strong but not that strong and anti-"magic" does not cancel out different types of energy other than "mana" (magic). Antimagic nullifies only "magic" and everything that is made, composed, materialized, manifested or related to "mana". Magic is created with mana and only in the world of Black Clover and her living beings have it. There are some words from the databook (English) that are mistranslated by the people (the translators (fans)) who translated them from the original databook (Japanese), it is not anti-energy, it is anti-magic energy. Asta's physical strength does not scale to the level of magic, not even just his physical strength nullifies magic, the reason Asta can scale to massive magic is because of his anti-magic. Asta can control the flow of anti-magic from his swords to nullify the strength of magical attacks when defending (it doesn't just have to do with his physical strength). Asta can't physically scale to the same level as mass spells, if he were, he wouldn't have to use antimagic. Asta can't do anything against magical attacks using only his physical strength. Asta only needs to concentrate and control the flow of anti-magic emanating from his swords to defend himself and cancel the force of magical attacks (Asta had already done this unconsciously before even when he blocked and returned magical attacks). But yes, Asta needs to be physically strong, but only to maneuver the anti-magic swords and also to resist the force of the anti-magic energy that covers his body when he is in his transformations.
Listen G ik u didnt ask me but im 99% sure naruto solos pretty badly. Naruto has an answer to every attack luffy can dish out, better stamina, strength speed+ even without the Universal scaling theres just no way luffy wins its a wraps unfortunately
@@nocommentaryvideogames2249 righttttt. The guy, who struggling against someone who MIGHT be planetary, is beating a guy who can swap hands with an alien who's casually eating planets and stars, in base. Let it make sense.
If u wanna give luffy toon force ok but then give asta verse equalisation (example being genjustsu on paper only working on characters with chakra but for a fair fight allowing it to work with other power systems like ki) i feel thats only fair. So that then means asta the moment he touches luffy his fruit and haki would turn off
Light novel states it can destroy the world *itself* you’d at the BARE minimum have to give it the planetary scaling based on that statement (along side the consistent statements of Whitebeards fruit being planetary) this doesn’t take Haki amps into account which gets crazy levels
In the databook it says: "He had immense power and an ability that could destroy the world (Keep in mind this only refers to his title, doesn't necessarily mean in terms of power, take it as you will)". So no he's not planetary. He could possibly destroy the planet, but it would have to be over a lot of time which wouldn't scale him to planetary.
How do you know that the LN are canon? Was oda involved in its production? And how do you know that it’s not a mistranslation. That feat can’t be a feat if it’s not proven to be canon
Some Key questions for Non Toon Force Luffy claims. *How does Rubber duplicate your eyes, Your opponents eyes, everyone watching you as their eyes duplicated forward too is it Rubber Force?* *How does Gear 5 allow Luffy to create a smooth bat out of a tree and paint it and Dry the paint properly as we know in canon he can't he's an awful artist with paint specifically but he manages it anyway before he can swing the now dry bat deflecting an attack on Kizarus level as he's already beaten rn.* *why can't turn Plasma into rubber, because this makes no sense. There's no Way to make Negativly Charged Nuertrons something you can hold in your hands they aren't tangible unless he can make intangible things rubber? Apply some Stretch to those Atoms, Does this include your thoughts and pain too?*
Luffy actualmente está usando una parte del poder de la Toon Forcé pero aún así sigue siendo efectiva, y ten cuidado con @Manga_Debates, es un racista que me bloqueó.
he has toon force there is no doubt about that but the fact is he can be hurt and he has been hurt many times its low level toon force untill he dose something like regrow a limb or regrow from nothing the best he can do is multiply his limbs and make somethings ruber not even everything such as fire or other devil fruit attacks
Yall really need to reevaluate on OP, Luffy isn't doing things based on rubber as awakening because he doesn't have the rubber fruit, there is no rubber it doesn't exist, thas the whole point of what Oda's doing with his fruit is that there isn't and never was a rubber Luffy has a HUMAN fruit so he can do what a human does, but not any human he has the mythical HUMAN NIKA fruit, so he can do what NIKA does, NIKA doesn't turn things into rubber, NIKA fights as FREE as he wants and is ONLY limited by HIS IMAGINATION so since fluffy can do what NIKA does he is ONLY limited by HIS IMAGINATION "why couldn't he just insta kill Kaido?" cuz he's limited by HIS IMAGINATION, he doesn't even know his true ability so he doesn't even know he would be able to do that so he's limited by that, NIKA's BODY had the PROPERTIES of rubber so LUFFY's BODY has the PROPERTIES of rubber. Saying Luffy is doing this based off turning things to rubber is like saying Kaido is breathing fire cuz his power is flame manipulation, no his power isn't flame manipulation, his power is Asure Dragon so he can do whatever a DRAGON can do, Kizaru can do whatever LIGHT can do, WB can do whatever TREMORS can do, Marco can do whatever a PHOENIX can do, not only that but changing things into your ability is a PARAMECIA awakening trait even stated by Kaido when he was watching Luffy do it, the thing is Luffy ISN'T a paramecia user he is a ZOAN user and ZOAN's are able to transform into and do what whatever their creature relates to, phoenix are made of fire so Marco is made of fire, dragons have tough scales so Kaido has tough scales, NIKA has a rubbery body so Luffy has a rubbery body, phoenix can heal so Marco can heal, dragons can breath fire so Kaido can breathe fire, NIKA can turn imagination into reality so Luffy can turn imagination into reality. Short version, there is no rubber fruit there is only a NIKA fruit and NIKA can turn imagination into reality so since Luffy is NIKA he can too, and everything he's doing is based on what HE can IMAGINE cuz THAT is his awakening not rubber, NIKA
@@jtisog2213 Bro this is Gear 5 we are talking about Luffy has a lot of toon force feats such as when kaido used boro breath on luffy he turned the ground into rubber and brought it up to block the fire attack or when he became big and ate the floor or when he deflected projectiles from the gorosei by biting a tree into a bat and striking them out or when he became a giant instantly or when he grabbed lightning like it was nothing practically lufy has the greatest battle iq and you're just being biased
@@Nineil I’m biased when you call gear 5 high level toon force? Low level toon force at best which is just reality warping Stronger rubber usage to grab lightning isn’t that impressive since we know Luffy was already immune when he was weak
Actually people often forget that the size of one pice world is much bigger the normal so luffy even in continental level would scale much higher than u think..
He's probably gonna cap luffy to star lvl considering he said he's more focused on the world and character building rather then the powerscaling side of things, and cuz of the sun god thing
L, luffy scales higher than planetary(the one piece world being MASSIVELY bigger than earth) and he literally beat a guy who is made out of light and he caught up with him meanwhile asta hasn't shown any planetary feats
nah but luffy wouldnt even be able to percieve asta hes at least 20,000 times the speed of light and thats being generous and in the video he severely dumbed down astas power and if luffy was to fight asta hee wwouldnt be able to hit him in the first place
@@firefliskx1811 Luffy can't do anything about an attack that can cut dimensions. And if you say oh he can grab it then why hasn't he stopped any of the attacks from any of the elders or why didn't he stop kaido's blast, breath attack or any of his Firebase moves because he simply can't. He can't stop the or the wind slashes from kaido either. He didn't stop that either. So what makes you think he can stop a dimension slash?
Now after gear5 luffy solo's cuz if we put them in neutral universe outside their verse luffy's strength and speed increase will cuzz his world is almost the same size of Jupiter and the gravity is also too much and not only that but also his sun god nika form can manipulate the reality meanwhile asta will face a downfall after getting out his universe cuz his world is smaller in comparison to real world so the gravity will increase and his speed and strength will decrease and not only that but luffy's haki is no magic so he cant cut it and luffy can generate real flames and give asta internal damage from ryu and his future sight is much stronger than asta's KI , this is going to be a though battle but luffy wins this ( I have read the latest chapter of both the mangas) ❤❤ and asta can stay in his devil union for 5 minutes I guess . And all the luffy continental feets in his world becomes planetary feets other worlds simple ❤❤
Still asta will be faster due to his speed already insane( you literally cant compare him with luffy even in his base form bcoz that mf goes toe to toe against lucius's clones( remember lucius's clones has mftl speed) and asta isnt using his fp at all) and if asta slashs luffy its over bcoz asta can damage souls which is luffy cant regenerate or heal at all And his devil union form lasts for 10 minutes( he said it when he was going to ceremony) and he doesn't need use that bcoz his base zetten form already stronger and faster than devil union form, if he uses devil union with zetten i dont know how fast hw would be And we cant just say bc world is smaller bcoz we dont even saw anything at all( we have only that panel which shows that continent very small compared to planet, and that continent way bigger than land of sun( land of sun based on japan,and if japan and land of sun is equal bc vers will be like our planet or even bigger)
@@DragonofDirge yeah their is speed difference but that would not be problem for luffy as their is not much difference, Asta can be slightly much faster in combat speed and travel speed but luffy gets reaction speed as speed in one piece have always been insane but people don't realise it. And luffy has access to see in future Yeah asta's world can be equivalent to over world but still luffy gets the edge as a power and speed buff 🤔🤔. And after g5, only demon slasher katana would be effective against luffy. If we do their battle through taking the consideration in their respective world BC world is more stronger due to their mana zone but once they come out of the world then mana zone and nature related mana and etc power ups would be useless 🤔. Well luffy can manipulate his own soul and body if you have seen luffy vs kaido he literally takes out his soul from his body and from the recent chapters of one piece he can put his wounds back to his or remove them as if nothing was their And to let luffy not put back his cuted organs asta needs to destroy them , but in the latest chapter of one piece we have seen luffy making anything from anything and anywhere he will just make is body back. Asta is moon level but luffy is star+ level as bajrang gun was a small plantery when it was not even covered in flames , ryu and advanced conqueror haki 😙😙. And it took even less then one sec to hit kaido after finishing it and kaido still survived 🤣.
@@rudeerex6523 bro manga asta's and manga luffy's speed isnt even comparable,yeah they are both mftl+( this is highball in luffy's case btw) but asta is like millions to billions times of speed of light,meanwhile luffy is thousands of times light speed,and op world isnt that big, most truthworthy scalings is op world is like 7x to earth which isn even high planetary ( bcoz high planets like jupiter or saturn is like hundred of times bigger than earth) so luffy cant gain 100000x speed buff due to vers differense And btw even asta's demon slayer sword would work on luffy bcoz asta can sharpen them by using antimagic( its not effective against physical at all but its still sharp sword so it can cut human's body) We both knows luffy's toon force is just low level toon force,he cant just imagine anything and do anything (at least for now) so it doesn't matter and bc has better "toon force" User bcoz dorothy can control her magic and she can imagine whatsoever And how tf luffy become star lvl????? He isnt even scales to his planet and his planet isnt even high planet so just where tf star lvl luffy come from? You can say luffy is planetary bcoz he has continental feats in op world( which is 7-10x earth so that continental feats would be planetary in normal sized planet) but that mf asta defeated lucifero( someone who can destroy world) and that lucifero isnt even top ten of black clover now, he powercreeped so hard in latest chapter ( partial devil union is stronger than lucifero, and base lucius equal to partial devil union asta, paladin lucius is way above than partial devil union asta, and now we have characters that can fight against paladin lucius or other supreme demon possesed paladins, and remember asta fighting against paladin lucius in base form with only zetten for now) Lucifero alone is planetary and tdu asta is above him so tdu asta is already planetary if you add zetten power buff he is like 20x to 100x planetary with just tdu and zetten alone( asta learned ki control even better so he can control his body and antimagic which makes him even stronger)
@@DragonofDirge luffy is also billions time faster than light and you people do not realise it cuz of animation , Bajrang Gun Attack Potency: 5.77884431997537792e30 joules = 1.381 Zettatons (Small Planet level). And when he adds ryu in it the same amount of force also destroys the thing from inside and when flames are added it can increase its attack potency even more and after adding adavance conqueror haki it can do even more damage making it star+ level attack And asta can't do soul based attacks but he can do attacks soul based magic
@@DragonofDirge calling luffy's toon force low level is just ridiculous🤣🤣. And that was only 50% manifested lucifero not complete one he was stronger than asta won due to his anti magic 🤣
@@斯爾終點リン yep but theres an efect that exist when you see objects in deep sea and into the space (idk how its called) thats when you dont have anything to compare, yoi see this in a small scale. I once was fishing and ive got a big fish (12kg) but in my sight it was like a 25kg, and i told my friends "bro i got a 30kg" and they were laughthing a lot 🤗, just when i saw the video was that i realize that its was not a big one (dog tooth tuna can be way bigger)
@@斯爾終點リン the meteor from BC was the only one viwed entering the atmosphere, and its way bigger. (Lilith and naamah freezing sun was smaller but had more ap)
Cool video that was pretty informative I do think Asta wins wins due to Higher AP and Speed Plus even if Gear 5 did grant Luffy "Toon Force" from what we've seen I don't think it would be powerful/fast enough to actually defeat Asta. I can see it pose as a means of making Luffy very hard to kill and cause physical damage (Especially for Asta's Demon Slayer and Dweller sword). But then again Asta has ways to get around it, such as waiting out until Gear 5 runs out in his base form (Which would be easy since current Asta in his base his already stronger/faster than his previous transformation in the Spade Arc, Especially with the use of Zetten which is anywhere from a 10 - 100 times multiplier of explosive force) or use Demon Destroyer to effect his soul or use Infinity slash which can be debated as durability negation. Regardless this was a fun video What do you think of Lucius Zogratis vs Kaguya Otosutsuki? I do think (in terms of Mid ball Metas) Ap would go to Kaguya but Lucius Hax would give her a problem
😐😐😑😑 Asta's Antimagic (black form and devil union) tracks (chases), blocks, weakens and nullifies only magic (mana) and any attributes that are made only of mana. Asta is fast due to the "Magic Tracking" of Antimagic (black form and devil union). Asta's four Antimagic swords do not hold a good edge against things that do not possess magic (Mana) unless they were breakable and destructible things. The Danma uses the energy of antimagic to enlarge itself and create a blade of antimagic capable of cutting gigantic magic (mana). The Shukuma uses antimagic energy to nullify magic (mana) while attacking. The Metsuma uses the energy of antimagic to nullify the effects of magic (mana) around it even when touching a magic (mana) user. The Zanma katana launches an anti-magic slash that is capable of cutting the magic (mana) of whatever the user chooses (infinite slash: nirvana/equinox). Zetten is a Yojutsu that uses ki to gather and take all the Yoryoku (mana) in your body, concentrating it in one limb (hands or feet) and releasing it in an instant (it is also applied in blows, kicks and cuts); In the case of Asta it is different since by having a contract with Liebe Asta has the energy of antimagic flowing in his body (similar to mana), Asta uses ki to gather and take all the energy of antimagic within his body concentrating it in a single limb, multiplying only the power and explosive force of the antimagic and launching it at once, creating the Antimagic Zetten capable of nullifying and erasing all the magic (mana) inside and out as when Asta wither or disintegrate the bamboo since Bamboo was cultivated with Yoryoku (mana). - Gauche used his mirror magic to try to kill Asta while he was sleeping, but Asta managed to dodge it by chance. - Mereoleona's attacks were fast, but not at the level of Patry's Light, Mereoleona fought against Rhya who used imitation magic to imitate Patry's attacks (Rhya's imitation magic can imitate any type of magic, however it will not be at the same level as the original magic, it will only be an imitation). - Asta's physical strength doesn't scale or nullify high levels of magic (mana) without anti-magic. - Asta just needs to release the anti-magic energy residing in his anti-magic swords to weaken the strength of large-sized magic attacks and thus apply some force to them. - When Asta is in his Black Form or Devil Union, the natural ability of anti-magic (magic tracking) makes him faster when facing a mana user. - When Lucius used time magic to freeze Asta and everyone in a building, Liebe (who could move because her anti-magic didn't affect her freezing time magic) was able to react in time and thus transform Asta so that she could move. - Anti-magic and magic (mana) are not the same, mana creates magic and increases the stats of mana users but anti-magic tracks, blocks and nullifies all magic (mana) in different ways. - When Asta is in his base form he can perform the "Anti-Magic Zetten" but that doesn't make him faster, his speed remains the same even when he is in his Black Form or Devil Union. - Asta had to use his Black Form (which is way beyond half of his power) to take on a Lucius clone. - The Lucius clone Lucius attacked Asta using the weakness of his anti-magic. - Asta in his normal base and even with speed can't even defeat Lucius' clones. - Asta with the anti-magic swords can't harm souls that aren't made of mana or that aren't enchanted with magic (mana). - Asta can nullify Lucius' "magic" regeneration because he has anti-magic, but he can't nullify regenerative abilities that aren't made of or related to magic (mana). - The four anti-magic swords don't have a good edge against things that aren't made of or composed of mana unless they were breakable and destructible things like rock, concrete or wood. - Asta's Devil Union can only last five minutes, but by using it partially reducing the discharge of anti-magic can extend the time to ten minutes, Asta concentrates all the energy of the anti-magic in his right arm making the power of the anti-magic more effective to erase the magic in a single attack. - Asta's Anti-Magic Zetten is a technique that consists of using ki to gather the energy of the anti-magic of his body concentrated in one limb increasing the explosive force of the anti-magic and with speed launch it suddenly, making it capable of nullifying and completely erasing magic, magic spells or things that are composed of mana from the inside and out. - Asta used Anti-Magic Zetten with the katana "Zanma" to nullify and erase the paladin magic and the control that Lucius had put on the souls of some people (Lily and Danmatio) using his soul magic. - The world of Black Clover is normal like most, the continent where the 4 kingdoms are (spade, heart, clover and diamond) was a bit big.
If you think tso was actually effecting time and space,Lucius gets negged,if not kaguya's going to have a hard time,with Lucius being abit faster and his hax effecting her.
@@斯爾終點リン for all of that asta need to be scaled to what he was negating( thats literally told like hundred times, if he is weaker than spells he cant negate spells at all) and no he isnt fast due to magic tracking bcoz he was ftl when he cant even use black forms or magic tracking( and asta's black forms gives him all stat boost,remember in bc if characters mana increase their all stats increases too)
Asta: planetary-universal with mftl+ speed Luffy: large planetary with mftl+ speed. It depends on how you scale asta but i'd probably give it to asta due to his better stamina + likely better strength and durability.
Being this disingenuous is insane 🤦♂️ bro basically said for luffys speed that his above a pts Kuma so his faster than light 💀 like really? you skipped over 800+ chapters were luffy power cliffs himself multiple times stacking his gears multiplayers, while the other dude is literally making calcs and chain scaling asta, which if you do for luffy you can get him to even millions of times ftl just off how many times he power cliffs himself, also ur ap scale for luffy was pretty bland, you didn’t even use the 50x multiplayer of armament or the speed which upgrades the feat to even large planetary- small star level. Also another pretty basic misconception is that luffys power in gear 5 is mostly just Turning anything into rubber which is straight false bc that’s not even his power or the only power his df has. When oda states he has the power of imagination he doesn’t just say just because. G5 is even stated to defy logic, and kaido even stating that rubber cannot move that way, the way luffys power in g5 should be interpreted is that he can be as strong has his mind wants him to be now im not saying he can do everything but is deff not just rubber based abilitys, another think that was kinda confusing is that the guy used a black whole to upscale bc but you didn’t use bb? When is not only more clear bc is even stated in the data books that it is in fact a black hole and it also acts like a black hole. I know this message is long but my point is that ur being disingenuous when it comes to op, I washed ur video on luffy vs Naruto and you basically did the same thing to luffy barely going trough his scaling while explaining in full detail Naruto’s. Also if where gonna use calcs I can just used aokiji freezing all the water between 3 islands faster then the speed of light which the energy release required to do that is star level. if you want to discuss this even further we can debate this same topic.
ok and we have had feats far higher then anything in one piece not to mention speed wise asta was doing his light speed feats without ki and with a speed nerf since the sword would weigh him down if anything
Bro really you definitely downplay luffy by giving multiplier yo asta and ur clearly bais by how u scale both of them i can make luffy scale trillion times faster than light by giving multiplier to hordy. and for black hole if it was a real blackhole it will instantly make that planet destroy.
But that's forcing it you are being biased Black clover characters dodged and produced light since around chapter 40 so offcourse he would be faster than luffy and him destroying someone who is stronger than something that could evaporate an ocean just by waving
There is no calc stack or calc chain long enough to get luffy to trillions the highest is thousands while asta does actually have Chain scales that get him up to billions of times ftl
@@marcierex4547Bro, don't show your ignorance, I can easily get Luffy to trillions times faster than light through chain of scalings through all 1000+ chapters and high multiversal scaling with statements. Don't act like it's only Asta who can be wanked
Y’all cooked but I disagree with u using dorthy’s dream world since its just a hax ability that that she can cast the spell of glamour world and in her world she make her imagination into reality so I don’t think using it is the best but I do agree that asta is at least planetary
You do realize she needs to use her magic energy to make that world it's an actual world that she needs to uphold with her magic which is AP so even if you don't like it it would still be universal and everything she makes is real so it doesn't matter if it's hax just like Naruto your abilities that are hex that are still scalable and physical
@@saleeksmith4765 blud every hax/ability is need whatever energy the verse uses to cast or use said hax the fact that she has to cast a spell and for that spell to fall apart if she is dead ko or runs out of magic only supports that it a hax ability rather than a actual creation feat cause if u can actually create a dimension then it wouldn’t need u to continue existing also her magic is dream magic it’s like saying Vanessa is outer because she needs magic to manipulate fate or some bs like that
@@Nirvana-igneel this is literally stated in the official guide books she holds it up with her magic it is a creation feet whether you like it or not this is been multiple statements which proves my fact rather than yours at this point you're using headcanon
@@Nirvana-igneel you can't argue with the data books which they even brought up whether you want to agree with it or not if the Arthur himself says it then you cannot deny
@@saleeksmith4765 yes u can cause once the story is written or said chapters then the author has no say since he already made it that way we call this death to the author and if the databook statement is contradicted by the manga then u can’t use that statement
I kinda agree that Asta beats luffy from everything we've seen him do so far. like asta has genuinely been slept on in terms of power. Could this change in the future maybe but im ok with asta beating luffy
I think you guys did pretty good even though you watered down black Clover's power scale what you guys admitted to so it's fair because Dorothy's feet would be into large universal at best Galaxy low ball
If you think luffy multi continental that's fine I've heard people say he's country lvl but if you gonna put a number on asta speed at least do the same for luffy you just mention he's definitely ftl and left it their. I could get luffy speed to the mftl ranges going up from ts luffy. Any way not mad I think the white beard statements are consistent I can't be bothered writing a paragraph why but their a multi statement that you didn't show that also says it and Clac wise make sense. Any way great video might come back to comment why OP is planetary 🤷🏾♂️
Devil fruits seem to be a pure magic based thing. For starters devils are completely linked with magic, and mythology, second its fruits that are created through the imagination of humanity, evolving you into a concept, that's a weird way of turning magic into science.
@@斯爾終點リン dude, it's a less complicated version of (that time I got reinstated as a slime), the verse even has haki and demon lord haki. Devils and demons are literally magic-based beings. There's literally a group of fruits based on mythology, something that is pure Magic. Also the voice, and souls of all things in the verse.
@@斯爾終點リン also, you know, the Gorosei being summoned, and using their awakenings with a magic circle seems like perfect evidence. The characters that have powers not linked with devil fruits or haki, along with the shark mermaid seeing far into the future with a crystal ball, without haki.
(눈‸눈) Do not compare One Piece with other animes, Oda never mentioned that there would be magic in One Piece, devil fruits do not have magic nor do we know who gave them that name or what type of energy they possess, The powers of devil fruits are Illogical No - Magical. Shyarley's predictions are a non-magical ability with her crystal ball. The circle where she went Summoned Gorosei may seem magical but it is not, it is Haki in some form. Haki is not magic either. One Piece's powers are Illogical non-magical.
What? Luffy won that fight lol Although it wasn't a series fight from both Luffy only used acoc once and it stunned Kizaru, Imagine if Luffy used it during the entire fight, Kizaru would get mid diffed
las espadas de antimagia de Asta (incluso la katana) no tienen un buen filo contra las cosas duras que no estan hechas de maná (a menos que sean cosas rompibles y destructibles como rocas, concreto, arboles (madera)). En el mundo de los sueños de Dorothy, Dorothy no puede crear una copia de la antimagia porque no sabe de que esta hecho la antimagia (Dorothy solo puede crear cosas que ella conoce).
Did we cook?
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Yes y’all cooked heavily but with that being said Rip luffy hopefully he gets some dope scaling similar to Naruto or Bleach one day
I think you did pretty good I believe that you kind of water down Black clover just a bit but hey like you already admitted to it cuz Dorothy's feet would be into a large Galaxy to universal
this meal was heavily, idk if op fan gonna eat it tho 💀
You have to times one piece feats to its own world by times of its size, so it well scales them over a normal earth
@@ltsMotionOne Piece Earth is simply large planetary
Yo Tempest.
There is an argument the OP community likes to make to make Luffy reach those planetary lvls. It basically revolves around the fact that the OP planet seems to be way larger then earth, some calcs even putting it at the size of the Sun or even bigger. Because of this, All of Luffy's continental feats would suddenly become way higher.
Not my opinion, just an argument that some ppl throw around.
What do you make of it?
It ia true and is potentially 10x
@@dsm2417OP is one of my favorite anime but that shit sound stupid , if you have to use an argument that the place they live is bigger it's likely you lost an argument it's ok if OP isn't stronger than other anime it's not that serious
@@hustleman8797 Im not an OP fan but i am a debater. It doesnt matter what arguments you use. No matter how it sounds, if you cant debunk it then it can always be used until someone does.
The world is around 6 - 12 Jupiter's not anywhere close to the sun
1. Bigger islands like alabasta and dressrossa are the size of countries so yh they aren't continents the biggest land mass should be the grand line
@@Replies.Delete.SometimesIDKy Same. Dk what man's on about. Man's argument was fr 'sounds stupid' 💀
5:20 he can turn anything he touches into rubber bro that's his awakening power
Eso o Luffy es tan fuerte que incluso cuando golpea o agarra hace que todo parezca de goma.
Ademas el poder de Luffy (la Hito Hito no Mi, modelo : nika) no es una paramecia, es una zoan mitologica.
(Los poderes de One Piece no son magia ni estan relacionados con el mana).
La fuerza fisica de Asta no escala al nivel de la magia, ni siquiera con solo su fuerza fisica anula la magia, la razon por la que Asta puede escalar a la magia masiva es por su antimagia. Asta puede controlar el flujo de la anti-magia de sus espadas para anular la fuerza de los ataques magicos cuando se defiende (no solo se tiene que ver con su fuerza fisica).
Y no soy analfabeto, Asta es fuerte pero no tanto (Asta no puede hacer nada contra los ataques magicos usando solamente su fuerza fisica).
Asta solo necesita concentrarse y controlar el flujo de la antimagia que emana de sus espadas para defenderse y cancelar la fuerza de los ataques mágicos (Asta ya lo habia hecho de forma inconsciente antes cuando bloqueaba y devolvia los ataques magicos).
Pero sí, Asta necesita ser físicamente fuerte, pero solo para maniobrar las espadas antimágicas y también para resistir la fuerza de la energia antimágica que cubre su cuerpo cuando está en su "Black Form" o "Devil Union".
Ichigo shut you up rubber disgusts most awful power in anime can't comper to Ichigo
@@斯爾終點リンNo, that’s simply his power
Although Asta is strong enough to fight back the forces of magic attacks
See how this sounds?
@@斯爾終點リン you clearly are illiterate as if you could read you'd see how it's directly stated that if asta isn't strong enough he'd just die to attacks and his anti magic would be useless he does need to scale to it physically
@@marcierex4547It is pointless, he is always commenting on how Luffy has Toonforce and how asta only affects magic which shows that he is an illiterate that does not even read black clover
hachimaru vs goku next?
Acc it is really close. Both are mftl and both are planetary at mid ball or high ball. Altho if you wank asta you can make him uni but its inconsistent. Luffys planetary level or even large planet level scaling is consistent and it is proven luffy can take off limps, body parts and even spawn things from air. So he would acc be good against asta. On the othet hand Asta has better adaptation and power creeps by sheer will power plus more abilieties and stamina. So it is really close in reality
how is luffy mftl
Lwk uni Asta might not be as inconsistent as you think
Luffy isnt mftl and planetary
What people forget is that Luffy would lose 90% of his fights if he was alone.
You can get Asta to universal
The power scales do not apply to Luffy since the power scale of One Piece and Luffy is illogical and makes no sense.
Devil Fruits and Haki are not magic nor are they made of mana.
Asta's Anti-Magic/Anti-Magic Swords (black form and devil union) tracks (chases), blocks, weakens, absorb, nullifies, erase and affect in any way only magic (mana), any attributes that are made only of mana and the force of spells exercised by the mana.
Asta is fast due to the "Magic Tracking" of Antimagic (black form and devil union).
Antimagic/Antimagic Energy does not physically strengthen Asta.
Anti-Magic cannot nullify other forms of energy other than magic (mana).
Asta's four Antimagic swords do not hold a good dge against things that do not possess magic (Mana) unless they were breakable and destructible things.
The Danma uses the energy of antimagic to enlarge itself and create a blade of antimagic capable of cutting gigantic magic (mana).
The Shukuma uses antimagic energy to nullify magic (mana) while attacking.
The Metsuma uses the energy of antimagic to nullify the effects of magic (mana) around it even when touching a magic (mana) user.
The Zanma katana launches an anti-magic slash that is capable of cutting the magic (mana) of whatever the user chooses (infinite slash: nirvana/equinox).
Asta cannot cut real dimensions that are not made of magic (mana).
- Anti-magic cannot nullify physical objects that are not composed of mana, ranged anti-magic attacks such as anti-magic slashes do not nullify objects that are not composed of mana; but it can destroy them naturally if the physical objects that are not composed of mana were breakable or destructible things such as rocks, trees, bricks or concrete.
"Zetten" is a Yojutsu that uses KI to gather and take all the Yoryoku (mana) in your body, concentrating it in one limb (hands or feet) and releasing it in an instant (it is also applied in blows, kicks and cuts); In the case of Asta it is different since by having a contract with Liebe Asta has the energy of antimagic flowing in his body (similar to mana), Asta uses KI to gather and take all the energy of antimagic within his body concentrating it in a single limb, multiplying only the power and explosive force of the antimagic and launching it at once, creating the "Antimagic Zetten" capable of nullifying and erasing all the magic (mana) inside and out as when Asta wither or disintegrate the bamboo since Bamboo was cultivated with Yoryoku (mana).
buddy forgot ki, the force of his spells, the damage they do regardless if there's magic, zetten, etc...
Ki and mana are vital energies but different and at the same time they are separate, but mana is much more vital than ki.
Asta's Anti-Magic or Anti-Magic Swords can repel, cancel or nullify the force of spells (magic) exerted by mana.
Anti-Magic causes more damage to those who possess magic (mana), when Asta hits or cuts or damages a magic (mana) user with the anti-magic swords he weakens them or leaves them unconscious.
The "Zetten of Anti-Magic" can only erase magic (mana) and everything that has mana like when Asta used it on the bamboo and it disintegrated or withered because the bamboo was grown with yoryoku (mana).
@@斯爾終點リン Magic replicates the properties of real life matter so he should technically be able to do it to luffy fans fire is actual fire for example magic is just an energy source
Asta destroys the construct not the magic the spells created are replication of the real
Thing example when Asta negates someone ability the magic still exists just not the spell
- In the world of One Piece there is no mana.
Only in the world of Black Clover The attributes or matter that are only created with magic/spell are composed of mana, also elements such as fire, and mana is the source of magical power (magic) and vitality that is found in living beings and the environment only in the world of Black Clover.
Asta uses anti-magic to nullify magic/spells and any attributes that are made or created or manifested from mana such as constructs (but there are some normal constructs that are not made of mana and anti-magic cannot nullify them, it breaks them only if they are constructions without mana are breakable and destructible).
Anti-magic nullifies both the magic and spells the mana user creates.
Asta is strong but not that strong and anti-"magic" does not cancel out different types of energy other than "mana" (magic).
Antimagic nullifies only "magic" and everything that is made, composed, materialized, manifested or related to "mana".
Magic is created with mana and only in the world of Black Clover and her living beings have it.
There are some words from the databook (English) that are mistranslated by the people (the translators (fans)) who translated them from the original databook (Japanese), it is not anti-energy, it is anti-magic energy.
Asta's physical strength does not scale to the level of magic, not even just his physical strength nullifies magic, the reason Asta can scale to massive magic is because of his anti-magic. Asta can control the flow of anti-magic from his swords to nullify the strength of magical attacks when defending (it doesn't just have to do with his physical strength).
Asta can't physically scale to the same level as mass spells, if he were, he wouldn't have to use antimagic.
Asta can't do anything against magical attacks using only his physical strength.
Asta only needs to concentrate and control the flow of anti-magic emanating from his swords to defend himself and cancel the force of magical attacks (Asta had already done this unconsciously before even when he blocked and returned magical attacks).
But yes, Asta needs to be physically strong, but only to maneuver the anti-magic swords and also to resist the force of the anti-magic energy that covers his body when he is in his transformations.
@@斯爾終點リンAsta negates all energy and is simply strong, you’re welcome
Please go over gear 5 vs base naruto and who wins 😭‼️
Listen G ik u didnt ask me but im 99% sure naruto solos pretty badly. Naruto has an answer to every attack luffy can dish out, better stamina, strength speed+ even without the Universal scaling theres just no way luffy wins its a wraps unfortunately
Luffy negs
@@xHollow.luffy solos
@@nocommentaryvideogames2249 righttttt. The guy, who struggling against someone who MIGHT be planetary, is beating a guy who can swap hands with an alien who's casually eating planets and stars, in base. Let it make sense.
@@darryltorres7302 all that for luffy to one shot
Remember the one piece earth is 3 times bigger then our earth so any planetary statements go from mid to high
Oda based gear5 from tom and jerry. And he has toon force but a low lvl
If u wanna give luffy toon force ok but then give asta verse equalisation (example being genjustsu on paper only working on characters with chakra but for a fair fight allowing it to work with other power systems like ki) i feel thats only fair. So that then means asta the moment he touches luffy his fruit and haki would turn off
Light novel states it can destroy the world *itself* you’d at the BARE minimum have to give it the planetary scaling based on that statement (along side the consistent statements of Whitebeards fruit being planetary) this doesn’t take Haki amps into account which gets crazy levels
In the databook it says:
"He had immense power and an ability that could destroy the world (Keep in mind this only refers to his title, doesn't necessarily mean in terms of power, take it as you will)".
So no he's not planetary. He could possibly destroy the planet, but it would have to be over a lot of time which wouldn't scale him to planetary.
@@sharfsito2574data books for op aren’t canon for op for who cares
How do you know that the LN are canon? Was oda involved in its production? And how do you know that it’s not a mistranslation. That feat can’t be a feat if it’s not proven to be canon
Awesome video guys
So overall asta wins
Some Key questions for Non Toon Force Luffy claims.
*How does Rubber duplicate your eyes, Your opponents eyes, everyone watching you as their eyes duplicated forward too is it Rubber Force?*
*How does Gear 5 allow Luffy to create a smooth bat out of a tree and paint it and Dry the paint properly as we know in canon he can't he's an awful artist with paint specifically but he manages it anyway before he can swing the now dry bat deflecting an attack on Kizarus level as he's already beaten rn.*
*why can't turn Plasma into rubber, because this makes no sense. There's no Way to make Negativly Charged Nuertrons something you can hold in your hands they aren't tangible unless he can make intangible things rubber? Apply some Stretch to those Atoms, Does this include your thoughts and pain too?*
It’s low level toon force not like Popeye’s toon force where he jumped out the comic and knocked out his author
Luffy actualmente está usando una parte del poder de la Toon Forcé pero aún así sigue siendo efectiva, y ten cuidado con @Manga_Debates, es un racista que me bloqueó.
he has toon force there is no doubt about that but the fact is he can be hurt and he has been hurt many times its low level toon force untill he dose something like regrow a limb or regrow from nothing the best he can do is multiply his limbs and make somethings ruber not even everything such as fire or other devil fruit attacks
Yall really need to reevaluate on OP, Luffy isn't doing things based on rubber as awakening because he doesn't have the rubber fruit, there is no rubber it doesn't exist, thas the whole point of what Oda's doing with his fruit is that there isn't and never was a rubber
Luffy has a HUMAN fruit so he can do what a human does, but not any human he has the mythical HUMAN NIKA fruit, so he can do what NIKA does, NIKA doesn't turn things into rubber, NIKA fights as FREE as he wants and is ONLY limited by HIS IMAGINATION so since fluffy can do what NIKA does he is ONLY limited by HIS IMAGINATION "why couldn't he just insta kill Kaido?" cuz he's limited by HIS IMAGINATION, he doesn't even know his true ability so he doesn't even know he would be able to do that so he's limited by that, NIKA's BODY had the PROPERTIES of rubber so LUFFY's BODY has the PROPERTIES of rubber. Saying Luffy is doing this based off turning things to rubber is like saying Kaido is breathing fire cuz his power is flame manipulation, no his power isn't flame manipulation, his power is Asure Dragon so he can do whatever a DRAGON can do, Kizaru can do whatever LIGHT can do, WB can do whatever TREMORS can do, Marco can do whatever a PHOENIX can do, not only that but changing things into your ability is a PARAMECIA awakening trait even stated by Kaido when he was watching Luffy do it, the thing is Luffy ISN'T a paramecia user he is a ZOAN user and ZOAN's are able to transform into and do what whatever their creature relates to, phoenix are made of fire so Marco is made of fire, dragons have tough scales so Kaido has tough scales, NIKA has a rubbery body so Luffy has a rubbery body, phoenix can heal so Marco can heal, dragons can breath fire so Kaido can breathe fire, NIKA can turn imagination into reality so Luffy can turn imagination into reality. Short version, there is no rubber fruit there is only a NIKA fruit and NIKA can turn imagination into reality so since Luffy is NIKA he can too, and everything he's doing is based on what HE can IMAGINE cuz THAT is his awakening not rubber, NIKA
If it’s truly anything he can imagine, he would be summoning meat left and right
@@jtisog2213 he just hasn't realized it yet
@@Nineil Even if were to be true, he’ll be too dumb to realize and he’s not very battle smart, just creative
@@jtisog2213 Bro this is Gear 5 we are talking about Luffy has a lot of toon force feats such as when kaido used boro breath on luffy he turned the ground into rubber and brought it up to block the fire attack or when he became big and ate the floor or when he deflected projectiles from the gorosei by biting a tree into a bat and striking them out or when he became a giant instantly or when he grabbed lightning like it was nothing practically lufy has the greatest battle iq and you're just being biased
@@Nineil I’m biased when you call gear 5 high level toon force?
Low level toon force at best which is just reality warping
Stronger rubber usage to grab lightning isn’t that impressive since we know Luffy was already immune when he was weak
Actually people often forget that the size of one pice world is much bigger the normal so luffy even in continental level would scale much higher than u think..
That's just assuming the islands are larger. Having a larger planet can just mean there are many more islands🤷
I need oda to lock tf in and start giving luffy some multi galaxy feats and above
Fr
This is me but with Horikoshi
Out of nowhere? Oda will look stupid if he ever does that rn 😒
End of OP mabye,also their are ways you can get luffy to uni and far above
He's probably gonna cap luffy to star lvl considering he said he's more focused on the world and character building rather then the powerscaling side of things, and cuz of the sun god thing
*im here to read the delusional op fan comment who think luffy has toon force lvl bugs bunny* 🙏😂
(눈‸눈)🤦🏻♂️👎.
Luffy does have the Toon Force, Oda states it in the manga.
You make fun of it because you are ignorant.
He does have toon force he’s literally warping his environment and opponents in a comedic way
@@dsm2417 luffy has toon force but lvl fodder so i agree
😐😑.
Luffy barely uses a part of the Toon Force, he still needs to break some Limiters.
@@dsm2417 thats the effects of the awakening
L, luffy scales higher than planetary(the one piece world being MASSIVELY bigger than earth) and he literally beat a guy who is made out of light and he caught up with him meanwhile asta hasn't shown any planetary feats
lol just say u haven’t read black clover. asta shows planetary feats like first 40 episodes of the show
Asta and yami beat Dante who is able to create a black hole singularity which was legit calced at large planetary
Not only that but asta has shown relatively to light before his black form early on
nah but luffy wouldnt even be able to percieve asta hes at least 20,000 times the speed of light and thats being generous and in the video he severely dumbed down astas power and if luffy was to fight asta hee wwouldnt be able to hit him in the first place
@@marcierex4547 wdym? before black form best you could scale him is relativistic and thats being generous
Good video though personally, I believe Luffy wins this battle
Manz high af trough the heavens
brother dimension slash?
@@doriankamanzi6874 What about it.
@@firefliskx1811 Luffy can't do anything about an attack that can cut dimensions. And if you say oh he can grab it then why hasn't he stopped any of the attacks from any of the elders or why didn't he stop kaido's blast, breath attack or any of his Firebase moves because he simply can't. He can't stop the or the wind slashes from kaido either. He didn't stop that either. So what makes you think he can stop a dimension slash?
@@firefliskx1811 As kaido clearly said in their fight, slashing moves still seem to be his weakness and guess who has a sword
luffy large planet with ftl+- mftl speed and asta small planet with mftl speed
idk luffy have higher ap but asta is faster is not a one shot
large planet??????????? mans aint even continental
@@Stonepillar9 hahahah he is large planet
Now after gear5 luffy solo's cuz if we put them in neutral universe outside their verse luffy's strength and speed increase will cuzz his world is almost the same size of Jupiter and the gravity is also too much and not only that but also his sun god nika form can manipulate the reality meanwhile asta will face a downfall after getting out his universe cuz his world is smaller in comparison to real world so the gravity will increase and his speed and strength will decrease and not only that but luffy's haki is no magic so he cant cut it and luffy can generate real flames and give asta internal damage from ryu and his future sight is much stronger than asta's KI , this is going to be a though battle but luffy wins this ( I have read the latest chapter of both the mangas) ❤❤ and asta can stay in his devil union for 5 minutes I guess . And all the luffy continental feets in his world becomes planetary feets other worlds simple ❤❤
Still asta will be faster due to his speed already insane( you literally cant compare him with luffy even in his base form bcoz that mf goes toe to toe against lucius's clones( remember lucius's clones has mftl speed) and asta isnt using his fp at all) and if asta slashs luffy its over bcoz asta can damage souls which is luffy cant regenerate or heal at all
And his devil union form lasts for 10 minutes( he said it when he was going to ceremony) and he doesn't need use that bcoz his base zetten form already stronger and faster than devil union form, if he uses devil union with zetten i dont know how fast hw would be
And we cant just say bc world is smaller bcoz we dont even saw anything at all( we have only that panel which shows that continent very small compared to planet, and that continent way bigger than land of sun( land of sun based on japan,and if japan and land of sun is equal bc vers will be like our planet or even bigger)
@@DragonofDirge yeah their is speed difference but that would not be problem for luffy as their is not much difference, Asta can be slightly much faster in combat speed and travel speed but luffy gets reaction speed as speed in one piece have always been insane but people don't realise it.
And luffy has access to see in future
Yeah asta's world can be equivalent to over world but still luffy gets the edge as a power and speed buff 🤔🤔.
And after g5, only demon slasher katana would be effective against luffy.
If we do their battle through taking the consideration in their respective world BC world is more stronger due to their mana zone but once they come out of the world then mana zone and nature related mana and etc power ups would be useless 🤔.
Well luffy can manipulate his own soul and body if you have seen luffy vs kaido he literally takes out his soul from his body and from the recent chapters of one piece he can put his wounds back to his or remove them as if nothing was their
And to let luffy not put back his cuted organs asta needs to destroy them , but in the latest chapter of one piece we have seen luffy making anything from anything and anywhere he will just make is body back.
Asta is moon level but luffy is star+ level as bajrang gun was a small plantery when it was not even covered in flames , ryu and advanced conqueror haki 😙😙.
And it took even less then one sec to hit kaido after finishing it and kaido still survived 🤣.
@@rudeerex6523 bro manga asta's and manga luffy's speed isnt even comparable,yeah they are both mftl+( this is highball in luffy's case btw) but asta is like millions to billions times of speed of light,meanwhile luffy is thousands of times light speed,and op world isnt that big, most truthworthy scalings is op world is like 7x to earth which isn even high planetary ( bcoz high planets like jupiter or saturn is like hundred of times bigger than earth) so luffy cant gain 100000x speed buff due to vers differense
And btw even asta's demon slayer sword would work on luffy bcoz asta can sharpen them by using antimagic( its not effective against physical at all but its still sharp sword so it can cut human's body)
We both knows luffy's toon force is just low level toon force,he cant just imagine anything and do anything (at least for now) so it doesn't matter and bc has better "toon force" User bcoz dorothy can control her magic and she can imagine whatsoever
And how tf luffy become star lvl????? He isnt even scales to his planet and his planet isnt even high planet so just where tf star lvl luffy come from? You can say luffy is planetary bcoz he has continental feats in op world( which is 7-10x earth so that continental feats would be planetary in normal sized planet) but that mf asta defeated lucifero( someone who can destroy world) and that lucifero isnt even top ten of black clover now, he powercreeped so hard in latest chapter ( partial devil union is stronger than lucifero, and base lucius equal to partial devil union asta, paladin lucius is way above than partial devil union asta, and now we have characters that can fight against paladin lucius or other supreme demon possesed paladins, and remember asta fighting against paladin lucius in base form with only zetten for now)
Lucifero alone is planetary and tdu asta is above him so tdu asta is already planetary if you add zetten power buff he is like 20x to 100x planetary with just tdu and zetten alone( asta learned ki control even better so he can control his body and antimagic which makes him even stronger)
@@DragonofDirge luffy is also billions time faster than light and you people do not realise it cuz of animation ,
Bajrang Gun Attack Potency: 5.77884431997537792e30 joules = 1.381 Zettatons (Small Planet level). And when he adds ryu in it the same amount of force also destroys the thing from inside and when flames are added it can increase its attack potency even more and after adding adavance conqueror haki it can do even more damage making it star+ level attack
And asta can't do soul based attacks but he can do attacks soul based magic
@@DragonofDirge calling luffy's toon force low level is just ridiculous🤣🤣. And that was only 50% manifested lucifero not complete one he was stronger than asta won due to his anti magic 🤣
im pretty sure luffy wont do shit to asta, asta is way too fast for him
🤦🏻♂️.
Asta is fast due to the "magic tracking" of anti-magic (black form and devil union)
@@斯爾終點リンbruh did you watched leaf clover?
(눈‸눈)😑
That's right, I've watched and read the entire Black Clover manga and anime in detail many times, but I didn't let the perspective fool me.
@@斯爾終點リン yep but theres an efect that exist when you see objects in deep sea and into the space (idk how its called) thats when you dont have anything to compare, yoi see this in a small scale.
I once was fishing and ive got a big fish (12kg) but in my sight it was like a 25kg, and i told my friends "bro i got a 30kg" and they were laughthing a lot 🤗, just when i saw the video was that i realize that its was not a big one (dog tooth tuna can be way bigger)
@@斯爾終點リン the meteor from BC was the only one viwed entering the atmosphere, and its way bigger.
(Lilith and naamah freezing sun was smaller but had more ap)
Cool video that was pretty informative
I do think Asta wins wins due to Higher AP and Speed
Plus even if Gear 5 did grant Luffy "Toon Force" from what we've seen I don't think it would be powerful/fast enough to actually defeat Asta. I can see it pose as a means of making Luffy very hard to kill and cause physical damage (Especially for Asta's Demon Slayer and Dweller sword). But then again Asta has ways to get around it, such as waiting out until Gear 5 runs out in his base form (Which would be easy since current Asta in his base his already stronger/faster than his previous transformation in the Spade Arc, Especially with the use of Zetten which is anywhere from a 10 - 100 times multiplier of explosive force) or use Demon Destroyer to effect his soul or use Infinity slash which can be debated as durability negation.
Regardless this was a fun video
What do you think of Lucius Zogratis vs Kaguya Otosutsuki?
I do think (in terms of Mid ball Metas) Ap would go to Kaguya but Lucius Hax would give her a problem
😐😐😑😑
Asta's Antimagic (black form and devil union) tracks (chases), blocks, weakens and nullifies only magic (mana) and any attributes that are made only of mana.
Asta is fast due to the "Magic Tracking" of Antimagic (black form and devil union).
Asta's four Antimagic swords do not hold a good edge against things that do not possess magic (Mana) unless they were breakable and destructible things.
The Danma uses the energy of antimagic to enlarge itself and create a blade of antimagic capable of cutting gigantic magic (mana).
The Shukuma uses antimagic energy to nullify magic (mana) while attacking.
The Metsuma uses the energy of antimagic to nullify the effects of magic (mana) around it even when touching a magic (mana) user.
The Zanma katana launches an anti-magic slash that is capable of cutting the magic (mana) of whatever the user chooses (infinite slash: nirvana/equinox).
Zetten is a Yojutsu that uses ki to gather and take all the Yoryoku (mana) in your body, concentrating it in one limb (hands or feet) and releasing it in an instant (it is also applied in blows, kicks and cuts); In the case of Asta it is different since by having a contract with Liebe Asta has the energy of antimagic flowing in his body (similar to mana), Asta uses ki to gather and take all the energy of antimagic within his body concentrating it in a single limb, multiplying only the power and explosive force of the antimagic and launching it at once, creating the Antimagic Zetten capable of nullifying and erasing all the magic (mana) inside and out as when Asta wither or disintegrate the bamboo since Bamboo was cultivated with Yoryoku (mana).
- Gauche used his mirror magic to try to kill Asta while he was sleeping, but Asta managed to dodge it by chance.
- Mereoleona's attacks were fast, but not at the level of Patry's Light, Mereoleona fought against Rhya who used imitation magic to imitate Patry's attacks (Rhya's imitation magic can imitate any type of magic, however it will not be at the same level as the original magic, it will only be an imitation).
- Asta's physical strength doesn't scale or nullify high levels of magic (mana) without anti-magic.
- Asta just needs to release the anti-magic energy residing in his anti-magic swords to weaken the strength of large-sized magic attacks and thus apply some force to them.
- When Asta is in his Black Form or Devil Union, the natural ability of anti-magic (magic tracking) makes him faster when facing a mana user.
- When Lucius used time magic to freeze Asta and everyone in a building, Liebe (who could move because her anti-magic didn't affect her freezing time magic) was able to react in time and thus transform Asta so that she could move.
- Anti-magic and magic (mana) are not the same, mana creates magic and increases the stats of mana users but anti-magic tracks, blocks and nullifies all magic (mana) in different ways.
- When Asta is in his base form he can perform the "Anti-Magic Zetten" but that doesn't make him faster, his speed remains the same even when he is in his Black Form or Devil Union.
- Asta had to use his Black Form (which is way beyond half of his power) to take on a Lucius clone.
- The Lucius clone Lucius attacked Asta using the weakness of his anti-magic.
- Asta in his normal base and even with speed can't even defeat Lucius' clones.
- Asta with the anti-magic swords can't harm souls that aren't made of mana or that aren't enchanted with magic (mana).
- Asta can nullify Lucius' "magic" regeneration because he has anti-magic, but he can't nullify regenerative abilities that aren't made of or related to magic (mana).
- The four anti-magic swords don't have a good edge against things that aren't made of or composed of mana unless they were breakable and destructible things like rock, concrete or wood.
- Asta's Devil Union can only last five minutes, but by using it partially reducing the discharge of anti-magic can extend the time to ten minutes, Asta concentrates all the energy of the anti-magic in his right arm making the power of the anti-magic more effective to erase the magic in a single attack.
- Asta's Anti-Magic Zetten is a technique that consists of using ki to gather the energy of the anti-magic of his body concentrated in one limb increasing the explosive force of the anti-magic and with speed launch it suddenly, making it capable of nullifying and completely erasing magic, magic spells or things that are composed of mana from the inside and out.
- Asta used Anti-Magic Zetten with the katana "Zanma" to nullify and erase the paladin magic and the control that Lucius had put on the souls of some people (Lily and Danmatio) using his soul magic.
- The world of Black Clover is normal like most, the continent where the 4 kingdoms are (spade, heart, clover and diamond) was a bit big.
If you think tso was actually effecting time and space,Lucius gets negged,if not kaguya's going to have a hard time,with Lucius being abit faster and his hax effecting her.
@@somanchipranav1964Geavity Singularity is greater than TSO, Lucius ain’t affected by that
@@斯爾終點リン for all of that asta need to be scaled to what he was negating( thats literally told like hundred times, if he is weaker than spells he cant negate spells at all) and no he isnt fast due to magic tracking bcoz he was ftl when he cant even use black forms or magic tracking( and asta's black forms gives him all stat boost,remember in bc if characters mana increase their all stats increases too)
I got luffy if he doesn't have magic 🤷🏾♂️
yappa rappa
Stfu, you don't know how anti magic works, lmfao 😂😂
Asta negates all energy
Doesn't matter he's way stronger and faster
@@Killerfrequency5 Agreed Asta stomps Luffy
Luffy doesn't know the true nature of his devil fruit so he couldn't have just thought "hey kaido is dead now". He doesn't even know who Nika is 🤣
Asta: planetary-universal with mftl+ speed
Luffy: large planetary with mftl+ speed.
It depends on how you scale asta but i'd probably give it to asta due to his better stamina + likely better strength and durability.
“Planetary-universal”💀
@@Tamakkiscaleshis scaling is crazy two extremes
@@Manga_Debates you can scale base asta currently to large planetary
Luffy - Small Planetary
@@marcierex4547 their are universal metas for asta
Being this disingenuous is insane 🤦♂️ bro basically said for luffys speed that his above a pts Kuma so his faster than light 💀 like really? you skipped over 800+ chapters were luffy power cliffs himself multiple times stacking his gears multiplayers, while the other dude is literally making calcs and chain scaling asta, which if you do for luffy you can get him to even millions of times ftl just off how many times he power cliffs himself, also ur ap scale for luffy was pretty bland, you didn’t even use the 50x multiplayer of armament or the speed which upgrades the feat to even large planetary- small star level. Also another pretty basic misconception is that luffys power in gear 5 is mostly just Turning anything into rubber which is straight false bc that’s not even his power or the only power his df has. When oda states he has the power of imagination he doesn’t just say just because. G5 is even stated to defy logic, and kaido even stating that rubber cannot move that way, the way luffys power in g5 should be interpreted is that he can be as strong has his mind wants him to be now im not saying he can do everything but is deff not just rubber based abilitys, another think that was kinda confusing is that the guy used a black whole to upscale bc but you didn’t use bb? When is not only more clear bc is even stated in the data books that it is in fact a black hole and it also acts like a black hole. I know this message is long but my point is that ur being disingenuous when it comes to op, I washed ur video on luffy vs Naruto and you basically did the same thing to luffy barely going trough his scaling while explaining in full detail Naruto’s. Also if where gonna use calcs I can just used aokiji freezing all the water between 3 islands faster then the speed of light which the energy release required to do that is star level. if you want to discuss this even further we can debate this same topic.
Asta still wins
ok and we have had feats far higher then anything in one piece not to mention speed wise asta was doing his light speed feats without ki and with a speed nerf since the sword would weigh him down if anything
Luffy is star level cus the onepiece planet is bigger
Bro really you definitely downplay luffy by giving multiplier yo asta and ur clearly bais by how u scale both of them i can make luffy scale trillion times faster than light by giving multiplier to hordy. and for black hole if it was a real blackhole it will instantly make that planet destroy.
But that's forcing it you are being biased Black clover characters dodged and produced light since around chapter 40 so offcourse he would be faster than luffy and him destroying someone who is stronger than something that could evaporate an ocean just by waving
@@orpheemulemo8053 fuq the chapter
@@LIGMADEEZN67Admitting defeat is okay bro
There is no calc stack or calc chain long enough to get luffy to trillions the highest is thousands while asta does actually have Chain scales that get him up to billions of times ftl
@@marcierex4547Bro, don't show your ignorance, I can easily get Luffy to trillions times faster than light through chain of scalings through all 1000+ chapters and high multiversal scaling with statements. Don't act like it's only Asta who can be wanked
Saint seiya vs goku or sailor moon
Kawaki vs Yuno
Asta puts him on a tshirt
(눈‸눈)😒
Luffy puts him on every clothing
Asta is about to make a clothing brand out of Luffy
@@Killerfrequency5
Baku Baku.
Y’all cooked but I disagree with u using dorthy’s dream world since its just a hax ability that that she can cast the spell of glamour world and in her world she make her imagination into reality so I don’t think using it is the best but I do agree that asta is at least planetary
You do realize she needs to use her magic energy to make that world it's an actual world that she needs to uphold with her magic which is AP so even if you don't like it it would still be universal and everything she makes is real so it doesn't matter if it's hax just like Naruto your abilities that are hex that are still scalable and physical
@@saleeksmith4765 blud every hax/ability is need whatever energy the verse uses to cast or use said hax the fact that she has to cast a spell and for that spell to fall apart if she is dead ko or runs out of magic only supports that it a hax ability rather than a actual creation feat cause if u can actually create a dimension then it wouldn’t need u to continue existing also her magic is dream magic it’s like saying Vanessa is outer because she needs magic to manipulate fate or some bs like that
@@Nirvana-igneel this is literally stated in the official guide books she holds it up with her magic it is a creation feet whether you like it or not this is been multiple statements which proves my fact rather than yours at this point you're using headcanon
@@Nirvana-igneel you can't argue with the data books which they even brought up whether you want to agree with it or not if the Arthur himself says it then you cannot deny
@@saleeksmith4765 yes u can cause once the story is written or said chapters then the author has no say since he already made it that way we call this death to the author and if the databook statement is contradicted by the manga then u can’t use that statement
yo what about when he created goggles out of his hair
yes that will for sure help him in a fight
You hyperballed asta and BC universe a lot bro but since this is your opinion i still respect it
He actually low balled a lot and didn’t even go over astas better feats
@@flixytip4571W
Hyper ball luffy and he is boundless since he has the power of imagination.
@@Hayden-nd7oy the hell he would, that’s just not even a scaling for luffy in any regard
@@flixytip4571 ye it is yall can some how scale a planetary person to uni so what's stopping me form scaling a star lvl person to boundless.
I kinda agree that Asta beats luffy from everything we've seen him do so far. like asta has genuinely been slept on in terms of power. Could this change in the future maybe but im ok with asta beating luffy
Asta slams no contest 😂
🤦🏻♂headcanon de Asta.
You might be slow
@@Frogspip yea? How?
Yo finally got to sit down and watch this masterpiece 🤌. Thx again for having me 🙏
toon force is probably the biggest no limits fallacy victim I've ever seen
@@斯爾終點リン stay mad🔥
(눈‸눈)
The Toon Force is Illogical and variant.
@@斯爾終點リン doesn't change the fact that it falls under no limits fallacy 🤷
(눈‸눈) Toon Force is not a fallacy
@@斯爾終點リン i never said it is, it just falls under no limits fallacy it's not no limits fallacy itself
This video needs a update ngl
It was made 4 weeks ago? Asta slams bro😭
@@Tempest1018
🤦🏻♂Headcanon de Asta.
You definitely cooked but could you guys explain to me what one piece is I've never really watched it.
W Mr crafty
Luffy stays losing!💀
🤦🏻♂️Headcanon de Asta.
Luffy wins
I think you guys did pretty good even though you watered down black Clover's power scale what you guys admitted to so it's fair because Dorothy's feet would be into large universal at best Galaxy low ball
You mean high universal right?
@@itachi-weaselthe names are ass to remember thats ok 😅
Luffy toon force: nah id win
Asta demon destroyer: huff another fraud
Asta negs the verse badly
😑😑🤦🏻♂️.
No he doesnt
@Frogspip Yes he does
Yes he does
@@Killerfrequency5
🤦🏻♂️.
If you think luffy multi continental that's fine I've heard people say he's country lvl but if you gonna put a number on asta speed at least do the same for luffy you just mention he's definitely ftl and left it their. I could get luffy speed to the mftl ranges going up from ts luffy. Any way not mad I think the white beard statements are consistent I can't be bothered writing a paragraph why but their a multi statement that you didn't show that also says it and Clac wise make sense. Any way great video might come back to comment why OP is planetary 🤷🏾♂️
Devil fruits seem to be a pure magic based thing. For starters devils are completely linked with magic, and mythology, second its fruits that are created through the imagination of humanity, evolving you into a concept, that's a weird way of turning magic into science.
One Piece devil fruits are not magic nor are they made of mana.
Nor can they be called devil fruits, we still don't know who named them that way.
@@斯爾終點リン dude, it's a less complicated version of (that time I got reinstated as a slime), the verse even has haki and demon lord haki. Devils and demons are literally magic-based beings. There's literally a group of fruits based on mythology, something that is pure Magic. Also the voice, and souls of all things in the verse.
@@斯爾終點リン also, you know, the Gorosei being summoned, and using their awakenings with a magic circle seems like perfect evidence. The characters that have powers not linked with devil fruits or haki, along with the shark mermaid seeing far into the future with a crystal ball, without haki.
@@斯爾終點リン okay
(눈‸눈)
Do not compare One Piece with other animes, Oda never mentioned that there would be magic in One Piece, devil fruits do not have magic nor do we know who gave them that name or what type of energy they possess, The powers of devil fruits are Illogical No - Magical.
Shyarley's predictions are a non-magical ability with her crystal ball.
The circle where she went
Summoned Gorosei may seem magical but it is not, it is Haki in some form.
Haki is not magic either.
One Piece's powers are Illogical non-magical.
I’m a big one piece hater but ngl not giving Luffy his supposed Multipliers or even supposed multipliers
No si Luffy se concentra o simplemente encuentra una forma usando su cuerpo de goma.
@@斯爾終點リンLuffy’s eyes can’t keep up with Asta, that’s for sure
Luffys eye keep up and he demolishes asta@@jtisog2213
He doesn't have any real consistent multipliers other than gear 4th being a x4 multiplier in AP
Superman vs ichigo, naruto and luffy.
Luffy negs and it’s not even close
Ok bro😂
debate?🤣
🤡
Someone is salty
@@Killerfrequency5 yep that would be you
The crazy thing is u didn’t even mention current asta which is 100x stronger
luffy loses the fight vs kizaru
silly youtuber: luffy won
What? Luffy won that fight lol
Although it wasn't a series fight from both
Luffy only used acoc once and it stunned Kizaru, Imagine if Luffy used it during the entire fight, Kizaru would get mid diffed
Luffy won that
Of urse asta Wins
He doesn't win
Luffy wins
LIKE YOUR VID IS MID LUFFY WILL KILL ASTA ONSECONDS
If you said that the other way around you would be correct
Luffy is a fodder
Nah
Kidd Buu vs. Luffy Gear 5
Asta cleans
las espadas de antimagia de Asta (incluso la katana) no tienen un buen filo contra las cosas duras que no estan hechas de maná (a menos que sean cosas rompibles y destructibles como rocas, concreto, arboles (madera)).
En el mundo de los sueños de Dorothy, Dorothy no puede crear una copia de la antimagia porque no sabe de que esta hecho la antimagia (Dorothy solo puede crear cosas que ella conoce).
@@斯爾終點リンAsta gonna put his snow all over Luffy
Stop dreaming
@@jtisog2213 luffy destroys asta
@@Frogspip Maybe in Dorothy’s dream world, but it’ll only be a mere copy of Asta that Luffy could beat
ya.
W
Rare w yall
Luf wins
@@Frogspip y
@@Frogspip did you even watch the video?
The only person who would beat luffy is cap yami bc the world cutting slash type move
even luck beats luffy
and asta has that same move ur talking about lol
Luffy the weakest anime mc
(눈‸눈)🤦🏻♂️
Pretty sure that's either Gon or Tanjiro.
No he isnt. He negs asta and is above planetary
W