Diminished 7th Modulations and the Swiss Army Pivot Chord
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- Опубліковано 17 бер 2016
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This video alone was more informative than most "music theory" channels
Thanks!
Two years to the day since I first watched this video, and it is still one of my favourites on this channel! Dense with useful and thought-provoking content - thank you!
Awesome! also if you take any note from a diminished seventh chord and lower it an half tone you get a dominant seventh chord.
So from each diminished 7th chord you have 4 dominant 7th chord
That's true! In fact, some theorists prefer to think of the diminished 7th not even as its own chord but as a rootless voicing of a dominant 7 b9, which helps explain its function.
Woah, amazing!... You should've seen the grin on my face when you got to the main point of the video... This is so useful! Thank you, as always.
+Tiniuc Alex Yeah, I remember that feeling... It really is incredible, isn't it? I've been looking forward to talking about this one for a long time, I just had to cover some other things first for it to make sense.
Incredibly informative!! Yes it did blow my mind.. Thank you so much for making these your videos make my week
+Connor DeVries Thanks, that's awesome! We have a lot of fun making them, I'm glad they're helping!
This just made my brain explode! It was awesome!
I know, right? This is still my favorite thing I ever learned in theory class.
12tone Once I started watching this video, I realized that we talked about this stuff in one of my theory classes also, but revisiting it and remembering it still blew my mind all over again!
you sir earned a sub
you helped me on this topic more than all other videos combined
thank you so much
OMG THIS VIDEO BLOWS MY MIND! Too difficult but so fun
The diminished chord has a great sound in itself; it can be used for some functionally sound chromaticism. Bach loved to use it arpeggiated chromatically descending e.g. in the g-minor prelude (BWV535) and the chromatic fantasia... Liszt must have worshipped it. It's fun when ascending (or descending) chromatically accompanied by a whole-tone scale in contrary motion or arpeggiated augmented chords.
Your best video so far - very impressive (and I teach this stuff!). Nice work Cory!
(But Dim7ths are still Dominant b9ths...)
Dude you are amazing!
@4:35
How about: ‘See Chopin’s Funeral March for a good example'
These modulations are a lot in classical music... Using this for songwriting is very interesting
These are gonna be fun to use for writing bridges. I hadn't quite thought about resolving them to *every* key, but it's really cool to know that it's actually possible.
Think you'll get to augmented next? From what I understand they have similar capabilities of modulation, just divided in 3 instead of 4.
+Audio Anomaly Yeah, you can do similar things with augmented triads! It's a little trickier because they lack a tritone which means your dominant sound is weakened, but they can still serve a dominant role and you can still get to any key with them if you're clever. There's a lot more common-tone resolutions, though! Anyway, I'm not sure when we'll get to augmented triads, but we'll definitely set some room aside to talk about this when we do!
Since the diminished triad is in both the major and the harmonic minor could it also be used to modulate between those keys? I did a little experiment with the progression IV V vii I and iV V vii i and it worked fairly well in both cases, I even replaced the I in the first progression with a i and it still worked very well
...Wow...So I absolutely have to try doing crazy modulations in my music using this chord.
Do it! One thing that helps, though, is to make sure you use it the "normal" way first, so people's ears are reminded of what that's supposed to be, ya know?
This video blew my mind.
Mine too!
Is there a similar concept to this with augmented chords? which are also symmetrical but with major thirds instead of minor thirds.
There is! it's a little trickier, 'cause there's more different augmented triads, and they don't really have as clear a function, but you can still do it.
My head hurts... but this was MONUMENTAL.
Super informative! Do you happen to have PDFs of the notes you wrote in this video that I could print out as a reference?
Thanks! We used to scan our pages and distribute them to our mailing list members, but we stopped doing that a while back 'cause it was a lot of extra work. This one might be old enough that it's there, though, I'm not sure, but if you join the mailing list (link in the video description) it'll send you that folder.
Great video 12tone! Do you have any video for minor chords modulations? Thank you
Thanks! We don't have one about specifically minor chords, but we did talk about pivot chord modulation in general here: ua-cam.com/video/41HPY_QmLqQ/v-deo.html Minor chords, as far as I know, are nothing particularly special when it comes to pivoting, though. They're not bad, and they have some secondary functions so you can use them a little more loosely, but they're nowhere near as flexible as the diminished 7th. We do intend to revisit the idea of modulation soon, though, and we'll definitely talk about those uses there!
Thank you very much. I will look to the linked video. Kind Regards.
Thank you very much for your attention 12tone, Actually I am looking for modulations within a minor mode like aeolian and dorian. I mean if you are about 8 bars in one of those modes or in a natural minor, how would you proceed to modulate to another minor mode? For instance: you are in Am aeolian and want to go to Cm aeolian? Those modes has no major seven but minor seven (subtonics) the classical V7-I won`t work unless you modify and create a major V chord instead of the natural v of the scale. Maybe we can use the diminished ii for modulating to other minor mode. What do you think? Really thank you for the videos! Best Ragards.
Oh, I see. Hmm... Yeah, that's tricky. The lack of dominant function makes it hard to quickly establish a key center. You can, of course, borrow a dominant through modal interchange, but then you're losing some of that modal sound. I think, in that case, I'd probably try to do a reasonably long pivot and then just start thinking in the new key and let the harmony of that work itself out. The pivot helps mask the transition, and then if you start writing normally in the new key it should establish itself over time. In the case of A minor to C minor, though, that's tricky 'cause they have no common chords to pivot through. If I really wanted to go from one to the other I might do it through an intermediate key, like G minor.
There's some other establishing tools you can use, like the plagal cadence (IV-I), but It's definitely harder to establish a key without dominant function, so if you're set on a modal sound, it might be best to stay in one place. Or just use direct modulations, I've done that a couple times.
Really thank you for your attention 12tone. You are a very gentle and kind person and also very clever in teaching music for us and trying to answer to all our questions. I think you gave me two options for modulation in this case: one is by including an altered note transforming from natural to harmonic minor and the other would be using the ii diminished. I will try and see how it sounds. Once more thank you very much, you are awesome!
seems to work best setting up the 4-5-1
That would make sense, since that progression establishes the key most fully! I'm not sure that would be as true if you heard it in the context of a full composition, since here we're just ending once we make it back to 1, but it could very well be, and of course it depends on the listener anyway! I like the shorter ones better because they're cleaner, but that's more about structure than sound anyway.
Analyze some beethoven, it's useful for just about everything
I just had to start right in the beginning. The vii in C major isn't Bm7b5? Thats a half diminished, not a Diminished 7th, Right? Can you explain please?
No, you're right, the actual VII chord in major is the mi7b5. There are no diminished 7ths in most normal scales. (There's one in harmonic minor, though!) Mostly it's a non-diatonic dominant, kind of like a tritone substitution: It's not in the scale, but it still points toward the root. Does that make sense?
I just watched the video again and now it's more clear to me. Thanks man :*
How about the use of diminished chords in many jazz standards, like Someday My Prince Will Come 1st ending: IIImi7 bIIIo7 IImi7 V7 - isn't that another function than the ones you've explained?
Hmm... Haven't seen that very much. If I had to guess, that's probably best viewed as an approach chord, since two of the notes resolve down a half-step and the other two stay still. Probably wouldn't really feel like a resolution there. I'll have to look the song up and see how it sounds, though!
Wouldn't that just be a passing diminished chord
So I find this so freaking cool! Does this have a relative relationship to minor keys at all?
You can do the same thing in minor, yeah! In fact, the diminished 7th's most common appearance is as the VII chord in harmonic minor.
12tone Oh boy! Thanks!!! I can't wait to get home from work to try this. Btw your videos are awesome, I think you have a great aphinity for teaching others. I can't afford to take music theory classes right now, so I scour the internet for useful information, and you are kinda the dessert at the end of my meals. :P
Keep it up!
woah
4:45 ... flinging aubergine cubes everywhere?
I've never heard the diminished 7th chord to be that dissonant. To me it sounds soft and introverted.
Interesting! I've never heard it that way, but one of my favorite things about music is that everyone hears it differently, so if that's how it works for you that's awesome!
Matthew Hume I agree, but I would say it sounds more restless than anything. Personally, I find dominant 7ths very sharp and dissonant.
I hear it as more of a more affirmed resolution than a dominant seventh - probably because i've heard so many dominant seventh flat 9 chords that my ear just fills in the bass :P
Fo7 would be E#o7 at 1:28?
Enharmonically speaking, yeah, but I try to avoid white note accidentals if I can 'cause they're confusing.
Hi
A chord for our times: Covi/D
At 4:12 you say, "the fix for this is simple: just use it a couple of times in the original key before you use it to pivot". Is "it" in this context the diminished chord? But that can't be because a few seconds later you say not to sit on the diminished chord too long because it's harsh. Or maybe you mean the eventual target chord, snuck in there a couple of times...but that can't be right. What gives?
Good question! So, basically, what I meant was that you want to play and resolve the diminished 7th in the initial key, then play it again to set up the modulation. You don't have to sit on it for too long each time, but if you hear it resolve "normally" first then the next time you hear it you'll expect that resolution again.
Why you guys are so hurry in teaching waste of mb