STS-51L Flight Director/Launch Commentator Press Conference
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- Опубліковано 28 січ 2022
- STS-51L Flight Director/Launch Commentator Press Conference
Launch Director Jay Greene and Launch Commentator Steve Nesbitt answer press questions on January 29th 1986.
All video courtesy NASA - Наука та технологія
Man, my heart breaks for Jay when I watch this press conference. He was a true professional. RIP sir.
Yes, I too feel so sorry for him. His face expression minutes after the explosion kind of symbolizes the atmosphere of the mood of the entire flight control team. He was a great man. Rip.
His voice I think cracked when he said about recovery forces
Thanks for finding and putting it online. It shows in a very impressive way how these accidents also affect the people on the ground working in the program. If you know the normally rather self-confident Jay Greene, whom Gene Kranz even called "cocky" in his days of a FIDO during the Apollo days, you can see how hard he is it, especially by the complete helplessness he and his team were suddenly confronted with.
To put him in front of the media directly the next day, while all the NASA top management went into hiding and some people at Marshall already had more significant data available, while he was still absolutely clueless about any details, was for sure not the finest hour of the PR department and something that made it even more difficult for him to cope.
He never went back to his Flight Director job, first changed over to head a new department concerned with safety and continued to work in different roles at NASA until his retirement.
It took a while for Leroy Cain (Columbia's final flight director) to go infront of the media
@@autismisfine4984 Put it that way: NASA handled the situation much better that time, they gave LeRoy nearly 2 weeks time to "recover" before they sent him into a press conference. By then, already the footage from Mission Control was released, he himself had more information, the raw emotion of the first days had gone - it was a better situation for him and also for the media to have a respectful and informative conversation.
On the day of the accident, it was the Head of the Flight Directors Office at the time, Milt Heflin, who represented Mission Control at the press conference, next to Shuttle Program Manager Ron Dittemore. And for both of them it was very hard as you can see, but especially Heflin was more than "on the edge" sometimes. People show it in different ways - some more in quiet despair, like Jay here, some in a certain aggressive touch in words and voice, as it came through in Milt's case.
@@autismisfine4984 and don’t get me started on Linda Ham
Ll
“…..it’s a hard day” line from the movie Fail-Safe.
Thank you LM-5. As always your work is both necessary to preserving history and your efforts appreciated.
Thank you too!
Mr. Greene doesn't look accustomed to public speaking, yet he was the best man for the job of flight director.
"One of the better weather days we've ever had." - except Thiokol engineers had refused to sign off on the final launch authorization due to the extreme cold.
He explains later what his weather comment was referring to - and he as nobody else at JSC had any Information about the discussions going on the night before and under which circumstances Thiokol management finally signed the launch recommendation.
When Jay Greene started his shift, he got the call that weather forecast was cleared for flight. As I understand it, the results of the telephone conference the previous night between Thiokol and NASA did not go through to MCC at all.
16:20….JSC’s input on weather revolves around weather at abort sites. He rightly points out that Program Management and KSC make the call on launch site weather status. JSC had no clue about the conference call from the night before launch.
There were some really heroes on that call…sadly they were all overruled. For those group-thinkers who sided with “taking off the engineering hat and putting on the management hat”, they blew it. Plain and simple. They, too, were all too human. They may not end up in hell for their culpability in killing 7 of the best human beings among us (heck, none were even jailed), but they will never escape the judgment of history.
The mid eighties was quite a bad time for launching rockets into space. Besides this tragic disaster, there were several unmanned mission malfunctions including the losses of two Titans, an Atlas, an Ariane and also a Delta if I remember correctly. In 1983 a Soyuz crew of two cosmonauts managed to escape death using its launch escape system only seconds before the booster exploded on the launchpad.
Does anyone really need any engineer to tell them that exceeding certified limits is not wise?
Jay Greene was well aware of these decisions that were being made at KSC. He and his entire team at JSC _consented_ to it all. Here we are 36 years later, and you all really want to still subscribe to the Rogers version of the story that the entire fault was with engineers and management?
...that OPERATIONS had no fault in this whatsoever?
It is akin to you getting into your car, pressing your foot on the gas pedal, watching the revs go well past the redline... and then blaming someone back in Detroit because your engine blew up.
Dick Scobee was well aware of temperature certification limits. Mike Smith is quoted as having told his wife the day before that they will not launch because the 28th will be too cold.
ANY component which never got certified to those extreme cold soaked temperatures could have failed. Look at the Beany Cap at the top of the ET. The Launch Team wrote a waiver to its temp limit being exceeded. And then when the temperature dropped below their waiver limit, they wrote a waiver to the waiver.
And then there's the ice situation...
Have none of you looked photos of all of the icicles by the engine bells? Would any of you called a GO for launch? But that's what Jay Greene did. He looked at all of that, and he called a 'GO'. Dick Covey and Fred Gregory called a 'GO'. EVERYONE in the loop at MOD called 'GO'. Same for the LCC. Same for CB.
Have you all really not figured it out yet that STS-51L was a Murder/Suicide.
If this was a game of CLUE, your answer is that:
- Col Mustard did it with an O-Ring back at Thiokol.
NO. You all are WAY off base. NASA OPERATIONS did this to themselves. The O-Rings, engineers and managers are only the ones who got blamed for it. And you all have swallowed this bogus story which Rogers fed us.
For 36 YEARS now, everyone continues to ignore the blatant facts which have been staring us in the face.
Thank you for posting these. It is appreciated.
22:14. Interesting to hear the voice of Scott Pelley, who went on to anchor the CBS Evening News and become the lead correspondent on 60 Minutes. He was a reporter for WFAA TV before moving to CBS News.
This wasn't even supposed to be Jaye's launch. He was called in relatively last minute as flight director. It was his last though. Absolute professional, just heart breaking for him and all those associated with the 51L mission.
Thanks for this.
P.S. I notice there is no playlist for your Apollo 14 videos.
Great video.
great profile picture.
The sensor showing a blinking light was the thermometer!
Imagine experiencing that launch as Flight Director one day, then having to face an audience of press media idiots like that the next and not lose your cool. Well done Jay. Steely-eyed missile man right there.
No matter how many documentaries or press conferences I've watched, nor how many articles I've read over the past 35+ years, we still can't bring those people back. When peoples lives are at stake, especially during a very dangerous activity, every decision has to be made with safety first, second, third...
Um, what about in combat? Is safety first when you're trying to blow up an "enemy" armed to the hilt with AA weapons in your attack plane? Perspective, man.
@@nutsackmania exactly perspective, we're talking about a civilian space launch, not a military conflict
I’m really annoyed that Jay green has been made a scapegoat for other people’s actions and failures RIP jay you are a legend in my book
this was classic group think failure.
@@martinhunt963I have never seen any suggestion the Flight Director was blamed for anything. What are you talking about?
16:10 This guy is in the wrong press conference 17 years before his time. Chilling.
Yeah that's creepy - I know that tile strikes had taken place several times before Columbia but...man. Guy was definitely thinkin' outside the box.
Jay Greene looks like he's been through it. I don't think the questions from the reporters were 'stupid,' I think reporters have to ask the questions their readers and viewers might have. Since the general public isn't as sophisticated as someone with either direct involvement or at least a keen interest in the Shuttle program those questions may come across as overly simplistic. Even someone in Mission Control thought the SRB parachute that appeared on TV after the incident was a paramedic heading into the area.
16:06 Is that the voice of Lisa Malone (eventual countdown voice starting in '89)?
You can tell how much this killed Mr. Greene. He aged 40 years in 24 hours.
This is old but its an interview done with Mr Greene in 2004. You can get the sense how much it still affected him almost 20 years later.
historycollection.jsc.nasa.gov/JSCHistoryPortal/history/oral_histories/GreeneJH/GreeneJH_12-8-04.htm
NASA had plenty of warning and there was a specific thing they could have done. Redesign the I-rings and SRB joints. Wait for warmer weather. Address impact of schedule on safety.
No weather issues?
Really?
The fact that they had to make a waiver to the Launch Commit Criteria for the temperature says there was a big issue with the weather.
Ah yeah; Jay Greene wasn't aware of the overnight temperature issue during this press conference. His answer was accurate from his stand point
I'm a big shuttle hugger and NASA mark.
However this is the same agency that launched Discovery dodging between and approaching cold front from the west and Hurricane Elena to the SE. Remember STS 51I?
That is launch controls standpoint. The MCCs weather only refers to weather at transatlantic abort sites, etc. He mentions this later in the conference
are you going post the transfer of the remains & the funnel?
I dont have plans to post that no
What is the funnel??
@@tomandsamuel
On April 29, 1986, the astronauts' remains were transferred on a C-141 Starlifter aircraft from Kennedy Space Center to the military mortuary at Dover Air Force Base. buried at the Space Shuttle Challenger Memorial in Arlington on May 20, 1986
@@tomandsamuel i only seen chips of these events.
Oh funeral!!
"yeah, could you speculate wildly on the sensationalist approach I'm required to take?"
For the record, CHALLENGER did not "explode". RH SRB broke free from lower strut and pivoted into the ET LOX tank causing structural failure. Subsequent rapid release of the ET propellants caused rapid, violent un-contained combustion.
also, neither was the "orbiter engulfed in flames" nor was there any fire
Wasn’t it the aerodynamic forces/loads that the shuttle experienced after the ET break up responsible for the “breakup”? You’re totally right that the “Challenger explosion “ never happened
@@tomandsamuel yes you're right
"...uncontained combustion"
What else would you call it but an explosion??
....so in other words, it exploded.
Jay Greene was so annoyed by their stupid questions. The press ask the dumbest questions
Was he unaware the cold weather was a concern at Thiokol? How would he be left out of something NASA Execs discussed so heatedly with Engineers and Managers in Utah? Thiokol even delayed a decision and recommendation to NASA on agreeing to go-no go for launch. How would he be unaware of this? It's not his fault but he's doing the press conference without noting these issues. NASA let him go out there blind a day later?
Everybody at JSC was completely unaware of this, and even Arnie Aldrich, who as program Manager at KSC, was. The people from Marshall and Thiokol, who had the discussions, did not inform anybody else about all this. It all came out only bit by bit in the following days and weeks.
exactly!
Cold weather was discussed at the previous shift and it was reported to him that the issues were closed and they were good to go. That was legitimate; they knew the weather was cold and you don't wait until the last minute to make a decision if possible, since that leads to bad decisions.
@@straightpipediesel cold weather was discussed the nite before launch and the engineers said no go. After NASA twisted their arms management overturned the thiokol engineers recommendation. It's all in the accident investigation report plain as day...
@@conradsieber7883 Yes I know that. You misunderstand. The cold weather discussions occurred with the previous shift flight director and controller. Jay Greene, the flight director at launch, only heard that the cold weather was discussed and resolved. So the answer to your question was yes, he was unaware of most of the discussion because it wasn't his shift and it wasn't his decision.
oh god family. Greene with an e is fam. and thought it was because the tie to this bad day was as a kid i was there at STS-6 landing. now fam.
Gosh, some of these questions are just asinine.
Haha no weather problems...
At the time, cold temperatures were not a launch constraint so what he said was accurate.
These NASA officials act like they're irritated to have to do a press conference as if they're doing us the public a favor. Post Columbia disaster the flight director was more considerate.
Jay Greeneさん、めちゃ落ち込んでる。しかし、あなたはなにも悪くない
From the way this flight director talks you wouldn't know 7 people were killed... Are we to believe he had no idea Thiokol and Marshall debated the safety of this cold weather launch? I say this because he speaks as if he has no idea of what may have gone wrong. I find it to be deceitful...
There's nothing anybody could have done? How about listen when Thiokol engineers said it wasn't safe to launch...
The press are woefully uninformed.
which is probably why they're asking the questions.
This poor guy is really suffering. Totally understandable
Agreed. That is a man in total anguish and he's fighting hard to not let it out.
Jay had a very bad couple of days, and the press was pushing his buttons.
Better weather days he said?he never had any clue about cold weather and o rings did he?neither did the astronauts that's so sad and pathetic communications from the management at nasa they played Russian roulette with 7 lives and lost
No, at this point did not have any clue about the discussions that had been going on between Marshall, Thiokol and KSC. Nobody at JSC in Houston knew about it and not even Arnie Aldrich, the Shuttle Program Manager at the time, who went to the Cape for launch, was informed about it. What Jay was referring to in terms of weather was the part he was responsible for as Houston Flight, the weather at the transatlantic Abort Landing Sites. The weather at the launch site was under the responsibilty of a special weather group at KSC, which reported to the Launch Director.
@@ksracing8396 That special group was/is the 45th Weather Squadron at Patrick AFB, now Patrick SFB, so an AF/SF group, so not NASA. NASA had their own in the form of the Spaceflight Meteorology Group (SMG) which was staffed by National Weather Service (NWS) meteorologists at JSC and they were in charge of weather forecasts for RTLS/TAL and AOA. The 45th Weather Squadron was not concerned with the weather at the SLF, just the weather near the launch pad, they reported to the Superintendent of Range Operations (SRO) who's job was to communicate to the NASA Test Director (NTD) if the Range was clear both in terms of foreign vessels such as aircraft and boats as well as general Range weather for Range optics. The Range required an clear unobstructed view of the vehicle through lift-off to 2000 ft after which the Range radars could pick it up.
So the Flight Director had no use for what the conditions at the pad was at T0, just what the conditions would be at the various abort sites some 25-90 minutes later which is when landing was expected. So Houston Flight could be GO while the SRO was NO-GO and that did in fact happen on the December 7 2006 launch attempt of STS-116. SLF weather was GO but the SRO was NO-GO due to low clouds obstructing any clear optical views. So it ended up in scrub with 48hr turn-around to December 9 2006.
They sound arrogant and tone deaf. Very different from Columbia's flight direction in 2003.
Why is the flight directors hair gray the day after when it was full brown the day of? Somethings not right. Also what was attached to the parachute? I'm sorry but I don't trust nasa. I have doubts
Jesus Christ you conspiracy clowns grasp at anything. Hair? Seriously? 2 different rooms, different lighting, simple. The parachute was the nose cone of one of the SRBs.
Srb nose cone was attached to the parachute
Yeah that hair color seems really suspicious. Only his hairdresser knows for sure
Jay Greene offered absolutely no words of condolence to the families of the astronauts killed by the botched launch, was utterly cold and condescending, arrogant, and non-communicative. Contrast his robotic and defensive demeanor with Steve Nesbitt, who at least comes across as a normal human being. Perfectly illustrates the smug attitude of NASA at the time--they ignored all the warnings about the cold temps and the effect on the O rings and rolled the dice and went ahead anyway. Disgraceful.
Talk about a completely off-base take. Wrong in every respect.
Completely wrong about Jay. Must be your brain on Biden.
Jay Greene was not in the decision making chain that approved the launch despite the warnings from Thiokol. That was literally above his pay grade. At the time, cold temperatures were not a go/ no go criteria.
@@robbhahn8897Always some useless clown that has the bizarre need to invoke politics into everything.
Poor Jay Greene. Just watching his body language, he would've rather been anywhere than sitting in that room facing the media.
he was a jerk. he could have at least said, "Yesterday was a great tragedy for our country and I want to say to the families of those killed that I am so sorry that this happened. We will do whatever we can to learn from our mistakes here and make sure this never happens again." nothing remotely like this came from his mouth.
@@DanHintzwow...harsh