Thanks for another informative video Luke! I tend to play the same zones that you show in your videos. My current league bag has P2, Duo, Pitch Black. Looking to add a couple more balls to round out the bag/arsenal. Your reviews are helpful.
My fate is a mainstay in the bag but the zen gold is a ball that I just want 🤦🏾 I was hoping you said they were distinctively different so they both could be in the bag. Now it feels like it would be overkill if I added to my pearl bag which has the fate and revenant
This week I took the Xponent, Fate, Night Road and Incite to league. I tried to get lined up and it seemed that all were not allowing me to hit the pocket consistently and either went high missing the 3 pin or just went Brooklyn. Splits made my scores horrible with several 4-6-7's. Game 3 was a clean 192 with few strikes. Thought about my bowling when I got home and I should have changed my finger positioning to reduce the reaction by spreading my pinky a bit and brining in my index finger a bit, too. I'm going to try again next week. Moving farther left on the lane just didn't give me the shape I needed. The Xpo, Fate and Incite were too strong. Oh well. Live and learn... Thanks for your comparison here today... Nice... I think I may try aiming closer to the markers rather than the dots or arrows...
Question for you Luke. When doing ball comparisons, especially something like the Fate and ZGL here where the guess is that the coverstock is the same or extremely similar, if it within your editing prowess to be able to overlay the two on what you feel are your best couple of shots when hitting approximately the same mark? That way it’s easier to see immediately that something like the Fate will go a bit longer before the ZGL would, but really help visualize it even better for the audience?
I can, but the problem is that it gets muddy and you can't really see what you're hoping to be able to see. I've done it in years past, but all it really does is just obscure both balls and make it tricky to see what's going on with either of them. It's a cool visual effect, it's just not ultimately very helpful.
@@LukeRosdahlgotcha. Was mostly curious to see if you’d ever considered it. I’ve seen it on one or two ball reviews in the past that use lines on the lane like a golf ball path tracker and thought it might be interesting.
The lines on the lane make it really tricky to see shape differences too, and again, another cool visual effect that's not actually helpful unless you're comparing hook differences.
I'm confused on the zens now. If 801 is ReX level strength that would put it above the OG Zen S77 cover which I belevie you've compared to R3S strength yet don;t most reviews have the Gold Label cleaner and more angular then the OG Zen?
Yes, but like I've mentioned, NeX is really clean and sharp for how much it hooks, so while it's cleaner and sharper than the Zen, it covers a lot more ground too because while it's longer and sharper, it still digs and it still gets work done. Urethane is earlier and slower than a Gem too, but I think that it's apparent the Gem is definitely stronger.
Got my ZGL and as per the original review it has a lot of forward roll, but all 8 games ive bowled with it have been on torched left over sport shot from a tournament so we will see how it does
Wow like that fate is still kicking A.. for you on your demo. I got the gold label, I notice my I.P has lost its bang after 100 games so since their fading (lol) fate them out I bought another IP. Thinking of the absolute ball. ?
Luke, I know you mentioned it somewhere but I can't for the life of me find which video you spoke about what changes you made to the ZGL cover. I love your recommendations on often times changing from box finish, and if ever a ball needed a change from box finish, it's the ZGL. What would be your surface change suggestion for the ZGL?
I talked about it in the review for sure. I go down to 1000 to get that reacta gloss junk off, then just finish it lightly with step 2. Brunswick's Crown Compound would work too.
@LukeRosdahl yesss!!! Right after I sent this, I went and watched your review again and got it! I don't know how I missed it. I KNEW it had to be there. I've literally watched that review probably 5 or 6 times 😆 Last question (thank you for your reply, btw): Going from Reacta-gloss to 1000 (even with some polish) seems like a pretty tremendous jump. Would you advise as much for a 2-handed righty? Just for reference, I typically throw low 15mph and rev rate (I really have no idea how to even measure this) is what I'd consider upper mid to high. When I read reviews, I mostly read up on what "cranker" would say. If rev rate were an income classification, I guess I'd say I was "upper middle class" 😆 Thanks, as always, for your fantastic content!
Not really, their polish procedure used to be 500-1000-step 2, if you get the surface too smooth before you then put polish on top of it, it'll be really weak and inconsistent. You're going from one polish to another, not going from shiny to 1000 grit, definitely wouldn't think of it that way. Most shiny box surfaces from most companies have the ball at 1000 or 1500 before they polish them.
Great video…Quick question.. would you consider the Absolute and Fate as being on top of each other?? I’m trying to figure my bag out The Clone, Absolute, Fate, IQ Tour: Solid, Hy-Road, Zen U
@@LukeRosdahl Okay, thanks so I can use them together… Also, one more quick one, my Phaze 2 is a bit too sharp for me, an IQ Tour Solid would be a smaller version correct?
@@LukeRosdahl Cool I’ll just use that as my benchmark and use my clone for when I need a bigger solid… I have the absolute and fate sitting between them 💯👌🏽
Hi Luke! Love your videos. I’m a two-handed lefty - do you think the ZGL would be too responsive for someone like me? I have a Zen but am switching it out (due to a weight difference, my Zen is 14 lbs and the purple hammer reactive and spare ball I have are 15). I enjoy playing a bit straighter with the hammer so I’m not sure if the ZGL will allow me to do the same.
I can use my Zen quite a bit but it definitely looks way better after a little bit of transition. I’m only an open bowler (but plan to join a league soon) so I tend to notice that my Zen does better after a little transition (compared to the couple times I went early enough to bowl on my center’s fresh heavy-medium house shot). If it helps, I usually play around 3rd arrow out to 7-9 at my breakpoint (and i always stay left of 4th arrow). That being said, it does roll out sometimes if I get too far up the back of it (as you mentioned in your original review I think) with me having a more forward roll in general. If you don’t mind me attaching on more questions, if I get a ZGL and like the shape, what would be a good step up/down with that same shape (maybe something that I can use in the same general zone with a similar look at different stages of transition)? I was considering on a Phaze 2 but would love your opinion on it as I’m still fairly new to the game).
So yeah if you can throw the original Zen, you'll be able to throw this one too. A step up with the same shape would be the Virtual Energy Blackout, and a step down with the same shape would be the Hustle RIP. Those are fairly big steps trying to stay in the same shape though, a smaller step down with a similar shape would be the XPonent, and a smaller step up with a similar shape would be the Summit. A Phaze 2 would work as well, but I've never found the P2 to be that great of a lefty ball, and don't know a lot of lefties that throw one actually.
That’s really interesting, I hear about everyone using a Phaze 2 everywhere all the time, so is there a reason why you tend to see less of them for lefties? Curious to see what you think
The combination of both traction and shape just makes it too much across the board most of the time. As a lefty, we don't need MORE hook or shape, we need help controlling what's already there. The P2 is just too much everything too often.
Isnt the "reserve blend 801" just marketing since it's a 800 series ball? like the Xponent is 701 and Eternity Pi is 901? Has nothing to do with the actual coverstock.
Yes and no, the higher the series, the stronger the ball, so the cover strengths will increase as the series gets higher. I don't like the way they decided to do it, but the next cover they use will be 802, then 803, etc. They'll be in a certain range though, so the 900 series covers are going to be the top end covers like EXO, NeX, Traction X7, etc., the next step down in the 800 series will be like ReX, R4S, NRG, etc., then once you get down to the 700 series, those will be like R2S and R3S strengths. So it's definitely a marketing thing, but it still does mean something.
@LukeRosdahl well yeah I understand that the series is generally the "amount" of strength but it's just letting you know that it's in that line. Like 801 and 802 of the same S77 response pearl will be the same coverstock formula, right? I work in a pro-shop and we've been debating this for a while
Not necessarily. Like I said I think they'll have a range that they draw from, not necessarily just one single cover, but they could go up or go down too like Storm and Roto do depending on what they're going for. I think it's a really bad system though definitely. The Gold Label cover definitely isn't S77 Response or closely related to it, but they're generally the same strength of ball. So I guess if I understand what you're saying a little better, it probably doesn't have much to do with the actual cover, because it could be R2S on one ball and NeX on the next like they do in the Master line with like the Axiom vs a Phaze 5 or something, but call them 802 on one ball and 803 on the next. I really have no idea how closely they're going to stick to that certain range, but I guess we'll see what happens when a few more balls release with different covers. I like the marketing angle, but it might be one of the worst out there as far as giving you any actual information about what the cover is.
@@chrisnorris8641 Yes, there are a couple reasons. Number one, Storm's new reacta gloss polish is hydrophobic, so it doesn't allow the ball to absorb oil like it's supposed to, so after a few shots it makes the ball slick, hard to hold onto, and it starts getting really weak and doesn't want to hook. Most pro shops have been either resurfacing or treating the balls to get it off before they sell them, and I've been tired of taking a shiny ball fresh out of the box to go make a video with and then have it just slide like a plastic ball 5 shots in. Next, not all balls come out of the box at the surface it says on the box. Some polished balls come out super glossy and some come out kind of dullish, or like if a ball is supposed to come at 2000 grit, sometimes they come almost shiny, and sometimes they come even duller, so surfacing things myself results in a more accurate and consistent surface. Thirdly, it helps break the ball in faster, balls get dropped in a box where they sit, sometimes for months, or they're placed on a pro shop wall where a number of people will handle them before being handled by the shop operator, so changing the surface freshens and cleans it so it's ready to go, sort of like "shaking the dust off" so to speak. Lastly, it's impossible to replicate box surface because they have industrial machines at the plant that no one else has, and when they're mass producing equipment, that process can't be copied by someone with a spinner or even a pro shop with a resurfacing machine. If you liked the box surface, it's going to change in a few games and you can't ever get back to it, plus like I mentioned in my second point, you really don't even know what it ACTUALLY is, but if you surface it yourself, you can copy that exactly and get right back to where you had it each and every time.
When I first got my fate it was very clean but it had that back end motion like you had with the ZGL in this video. It was angular as hell. I remember leaving a ton more 9 pins and 4/9's than usual. Over time it was still really clean but kinda lost that angular backend. I have it at 4k now and its like a completely different ball. Still clean down lane but smooth on the backend. I don't use it as much anymore. Love the motion of that ZGL in the vid, might have to be a purchase this season.
I had the same thing with my fate and the infinite, I think it's to do with how the Rex cover over time. I even had them both resurfaced and it helped a little bit still not the same as out of box. To be fair I put a ton of games on both of them.
Yeah that's something I've noticed with the ReX balls, they generally start out pretty quick and then get really buttery with some use. My ZGL still pops but it's definitely mellowed out, which has actually improved it
“I bet like a classified guy at nationals”😂😂😂
To add to your perfect 1, 2, 3 I use my Revenant under the Fate and Cosmos. Keeping the smoother shape at the bottom.
Thanks for another informative video Luke! I tend to play the same zones that you show in your videos. My current league bag has P2, Duo, Pitch Black. Looking to add a couple more balls to round out the bag/arsenal. Your reviews are helpful.
My fate is a mainstay in the bag but the zen gold is a ball that I just want 🤦🏾 I was hoping you said they were distinctively different so they both could be in the bag. Now it feels like it would be overkill if I added to my pearl bag which has the fate and revenant
Just the review I was waiting for, and super helpful analysis as usual. Perfect timing. Thanks a bunch!
This week I took the Xponent, Fate, Night Road and Incite to league. I tried to get lined up and it seemed that all were not allowing me to hit the pocket consistently and either went high missing the 3 pin or just went Brooklyn. Splits made my scores horrible with several 4-6-7's. Game 3 was a clean 192 with few strikes. Thought about my bowling when I got home and I should have changed my finger positioning to reduce the reaction by spreading my pinky a bit and brining in my index finger a bit, too. I'm going to try again next week. Moving farther left on the lane just didn't give me the shape I needed. The Xpo, Fate and Incite were too strong. Oh well. Live and learn... Thanks for your comparison here today... Nice... I think I may try aiming closer to the markers rather than the dots or arrows...
Question for you Luke. When doing ball comparisons, especially something like the Fate and ZGL here where the guess is that the coverstock is the same or extremely similar, if it within your editing prowess to be able to overlay the two on what you feel are your best couple of shots when hitting approximately the same mark?
That way it’s easier to see immediately that something like the Fate will go a bit longer before the ZGL would, but really help visualize it even better for the audience?
I can, but the problem is that it gets muddy and you can't really see what you're hoping to be able to see. I've done it in years past, but all it really does is just obscure both balls and make it tricky to see what's going on with either of them. It's a cool visual effect, it's just not ultimately very helpful.
@@LukeRosdahlgotcha. Was mostly curious to see if you’d ever considered it. I’ve seen it on one or two ball reviews in the past that use lines on the lane like a golf ball path tracker and thought it might be interesting.
The lines on the lane make it really tricky to see shape differences too, and again, another cool visual effect that's not actually helpful unless you're comparing hook differences.
Love my Zen Soul! The ZGL would be a great compliment. Love the Fate!
I'm confused on the zens now. If 801 is ReX level strength that would put it above the OG Zen S77 cover which I belevie you've compared to R3S strength yet don;t most reviews have the Gold Label cleaner and more angular then the OG Zen?
Yes, but like I've mentioned, NeX is really clean and sharp for how much it hooks, so while it's cleaner and sharper than the Zen, it covers a lot more ground too because while it's longer and sharper, it still digs and it still gets work done. Urethane is earlier and slower than a Gem too, but I think that it's apparent the Gem is definitely stronger.
Got my ZGL and as per the original review it has a lot of forward roll, but all 8 games ive bowled with it have been on torched left over sport shot from a tournament so we will see how it does
Wow like that fate is still kicking A.. for you on your demo. I got the gold label, I notice my I.P has lost its bang after 100 games so since their fading (lol) fate them out I bought another IP. Thinking of the absolute ball. ?
Thank you
Luke, I know you mentioned it somewhere but I can't for the life of me find which video you spoke about what changes you made to the ZGL cover. I love your recommendations on often times changing from box finish, and if ever a ball needed a change from box finish, it's the ZGL. What would be your surface change suggestion for the ZGL?
I talked about it in the review for sure. I go down to 1000 to get that reacta gloss junk off, then just finish it lightly with step 2. Brunswick's Crown Compound would work too.
@LukeRosdahl yesss!!! Right after I sent this, I went and watched your review again and got it! I don't know how I missed it. I KNEW it had to be there. I've literally watched that review probably 5 or 6 times 😆
Last question (thank you for your reply, btw): Going from Reacta-gloss to 1000 (even with some polish) seems like a pretty tremendous jump. Would you advise as much for a 2-handed righty? Just for reference, I typically throw low 15mph and rev rate (I really have no idea how to even measure this) is what I'd consider upper mid to high. When I read reviews, I mostly read up on what "cranker" would say. If rev rate were an income classification, I guess I'd say I was "upper middle class" 😆
Thanks, as always, for your fantastic content!
Not really, their polish procedure used to be 500-1000-step 2, if you get the surface too smooth before you then put polish on top of it, it'll be really weak and inconsistent. You're going from one polish to another, not going from shiny to 1000 grit, definitely wouldn't think of it that way. Most shiny box surfaces from most companies have the ball at 1000 or 1500 before they polish them.
Great video…Quick question.. would you consider the Absolute and Fate as being on top of each other?? I’m trying to figure my bag out
The Clone, Absolute, Fate, IQ Tour: Solid, Hy-Road, Zen U
Nah, Absolute is cleaner and a fair amount sharper, plus it likes getting deep. Fate is earlier but smoother and prefers straighter angles.
@@LukeRosdahl Okay, thanks so I can use them together… Also, one more quick one, my Phaze 2 is a bit too sharp for me, an IQ Tour Solid would be a smaller version correct?
@@jamallitebulb2445 Yep, the IQ is a great step down from the P2
@@LukeRosdahl Cool I’ll just use that as my benchmark and use my clone for when I need a bigger solid… I have the absolute and fate sitting between them 💯👌🏽
Great video, in your opinion, what would be a step down ball from the Fate, cleaner and more angular？
That'd be the Phaze 5 for like a half step down, then definitely the Hyroad Pearl for a full step down that's also cleaner and sharper.
just wondering if you think the night road or hustle m+m would be good step down from fate or too big of a gap
Hi Luke! Love your videos. I’m a two-handed lefty - do you think the ZGL would be too responsive for someone like me? I have a Zen but am switching it out (due to a weight difference, my Zen is 14 lbs and the purple hammer reactive and spare ball I have are 15). I enjoy playing a bit straighter with the hammer so I’m not sure if the ZGL will allow me to do the same.
It's fairly clean and controllable for how strong and sharp it is, but it's still a somewhat strong ball. Are you able to use your regular Zen much??
I can use my Zen quite a bit but it definitely looks way better after a little bit of transition. I’m only an open bowler (but plan to join a league soon) so I tend to notice that my Zen does better after a little transition (compared to the couple times I went early enough to bowl on my center’s fresh heavy-medium house shot). If it helps, I usually play around 3rd arrow out to 7-9 at my breakpoint (and i always stay left of 4th arrow). That being said, it does roll out sometimes if I get too far up the back of it (as you mentioned in your original review I think) with me having a more forward roll in general.
If you don’t mind me attaching on more questions, if I get a ZGL and like the shape, what would be a good step up/down with that same shape (maybe something that I can use in the same general zone with a similar look at different stages of transition)? I was considering on a Phaze 2 but would love your opinion on it as I’m still fairly new to the game).
So yeah if you can throw the original Zen, you'll be able to throw this one too. A step up with the same shape would be the Virtual Energy Blackout, and a step down with the same shape would be the Hustle RIP. Those are fairly big steps trying to stay in the same shape though, a smaller step down with a similar shape would be the XPonent, and a smaller step up with a similar shape would be the Summit. A Phaze 2 would work as well, but I've never found the P2 to be that great of a lefty ball, and don't know a lot of lefties that throw one actually.
That’s really interesting, I hear about everyone using a Phaze 2 everywhere all the time, so is there a reason why you tend to see less of them for lefties? Curious to see what you think
The combination of both traction and shape just makes it too much across the board most of the time. As a lefty, we don't need MORE hook or shape, we need help controlling what's already there. The P2 is just too much everything too often.
Would like to know the layout for the Zen?
They're both 4.5 x 2
Isnt the "reserve blend 801" just marketing since it's a 800 series ball? like the Xponent is 701 and Eternity Pi is 901? Has nothing to do with the actual coverstock.
Yes and no, the higher the series, the stronger the ball, so the cover strengths will increase as the series gets higher. I don't like the way they decided to do it, but the next cover they use will be 802, then 803, etc. They'll be in a certain range though, so the 900 series covers are going to be the top end covers like EXO, NeX, Traction X7, etc., the next step down in the 800 series will be like ReX, R4S, NRG, etc., then once you get down to the 700 series, those will be like R2S and R3S strengths. So it's definitely a marketing thing, but it still does mean something.
@LukeRosdahl well yeah I understand that the series is generally the "amount" of strength but it's just letting you know that it's in that line. Like 801 and 802 of the same S77 response pearl will be the same coverstock formula, right?
I work in a pro-shop and we've been debating this for a while
Not necessarily. Like I said I think they'll have a range that they draw from, not necessarily just one single cover, but they could go up or go down too like Storm and Roto do depending on what they're going for. I think it's a really bad system though definitely. The Gold Label cover definitely isn't S77 Response or closely related to it, but they're generally the same strength of ball.
So I guess if I understand what you're saying a little better, it probably doesn't have much to do with the actual cover, because it could be R2S on one ball and NeX on the next like they do in the Master line with like the Axiom vs a Phaze 5 or something, but call them 802 on one ball and 803 on the next. I really have no idea how closely they're going to stick to that certain range, but I guess we'll see what happens when a few more balls release with different covers. I like the marketing angle, but it might be one of the worst out there as far as giving you any actual information about what the cover is.
What was the surface on these balls?!
Down to 1000 with jayhawk bowling supply's diamond dust pads then finished with a light application of Storm's step 2 compound
Do you do that to every ball you use?! What's the reasoning?
@@chrisnorris8641 Yes, there are a couple reasons. Number one, Storm's new reacta gloss polish is hydrophobic, so it doesn't allow the ball to absorb oil like it's supposed to, so after a few shots it makes the ball slick, hard to hold onto, and it starts getting really weak and doesn't want to hook. Most pro shops have been either resurfacing or treating the balls to get it off before they sell them, and I've been tired of taking a shiny ball fresh out of the box to go make a video with and then have it just slide like a plastic ball 5 shots in.
Next, not all balls come out of the box at the surface it says on the box. Some polished balls come out super glossy and some come out kind of dullish, or like if a ball is supposed to come at 2000 grit, sometimes they come almost shiny, and sometimes they come even duller, so surfacing things myself results in a more accurate and consistent surface.
Thirdly, it helps break the ball in faster, balls get dropped in a box where they sit, sometimes for months, or they're placed on a pro shop wall where a number of people will handle them before being handled by the shop operator, so changing the surface freshens and cleans it so it's ready to go, sort of like "shaking the dust off" so to speak.
Lastly, it's impossible to replicate box surface because they have industrial machines at the plant that no one else has, and when they're mass producing equipment, that process can't be copied by someone with a spinner or even a pro shop with a resurfacing machine. If you liked the box surface, it's going to change in a few games and you can't ever get back to it, plus like I mentioned in my second point, you really don't even know what it ACTUALLY is, but if you surface it yourself, you can copy that exactly and get right back to where you had it each and every time.
What surface do you prefer for the eternity?! Mine gets real lazy down lane and not shaping very well
I feel like it’s hitting the right break point and it just dies I did put step 2 at 1000 grit right when it is about to hit the pocket it just pukes
When I first got my fate it was very clean but it had that back end motion like you had with the ZGL in this video. It was angular as hell. I remember leaving a ton more 9 pins and 4/9's than usual. Over time it was still really clean but kinda lost that angular backend. I have it at 4k now and its like a completely different ball. Still clean down lane but smooth on the backend. I don't use it as much anymore. Love the motion of that ZGL in the vid, might have to be a purchase this season.
I had the same thing with my fate and the infinite, I think it's to do with how the Rex cover over time. I even had them both resurfaced and it helped a little bit still not the same as out of box. To be fair I put a ton of games on both of them.
Yeah that's something I've noticed with the ReX balls, they generally start out pretty quick and then get really buttery with some use. My ZGL still pops but it's definitely mellowed out, which has actually improved it
BET LIKE A CLASSIFIED GUY AT NATIONALS
I had to lol